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July 5, 2015 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 5 July 2015

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General Debate

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stephieboy

hj, This review of Jared Diamond ’s book by the National Geographic which they made into a mini series . The question has to be asked what is your point ??

His observations and analysis seem pretty reasonable to me .

“Guns, Germs and Steel”: Jared Diamond on Geography as Power ”

“Why did history unfold differently on different continents? Why has one culture—namely that of Western Europe—dominated the development of the modern world?

In his Pulitzer Prize-winning book Guns, Germs and Steel, scientist Jared Diamond argues that the answer is geography. The physical locations where different cultures have taken root, he claims, have directly affected the ability of those societies to develop key institutions, like agriculture and animal do…”

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/07/0706_050706_diamond.html
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July 5, 2015 1:42pm
yankdownunder

Happy 4th of July [as it is back in the US today]
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July 5, 2015 1:55pm
Manolo

Was it stephieboy’s idea? http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/press-roped-down-aides-hillary-event_984950.html
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July 5, 2015 2:04pm
kowtow

It’s ridiculous that we don’t have a national day that means something to all NZers. That should be a focus instead of the wasteful flag referendum.

My vote would be for 26 September when we became a self governing dominion.
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July 5, 2015 2:09pm
Manolo

The advantages of UK multiculturalism: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3149629/Laugh-loud-UK-schoolgirl-jihadi-s-sick-reaction-Tunisian-massacre-series-extraordinary-online-messages-undercover-MOS-reporter.html

A teenager ‘jihadi bride’ who fled Britain to join Islamic State terrorists has callously mocked the victims of the Tunisian massacre – as she tried to lure another schoolgirl to join her in Syria.

Amira Abase, 16, wrote that she was laughing out loud – ‘Lol’ in text language – as Britain mourned the 30 citizens murdered on the Sousse beach.
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July 5, 2015 2:12pm
publicwatchdog

Remember Kiwibloggers the ‘WTO spy scandal’ where it was revealed that the GCSB had been spying on rivals to Tim Groser in the WTO leadership race?

How was THAT working in the best interests of New Zealand?

“Neither John Key nor Groser has denied that the Government’s intelligence gathering on the Trade Minister’s behalf had been escalated to include electronic intelligence gathering.

It is likely the GCSB and the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade believed this fell within the scope of the external intelligence agency’s brief to gather information on issues of important national economic significance to New Zealand.

But in a world where these activities are usually cloaked with plausible deniability, the Edward Snowden revelations haven’t gone down well elsewhere.
……..”

From above-mentioned Fran O’Sullivan NZ Herald article dated 25 March 2015).

Who was the Minister responsible for the GCSB at the time this spying took place?

How can we trust those responsible at the highest levels of the NZ Government to act in the best interests of New Zealand and the majority of New Zealanders when it comes to the secretive TPPA?

Seriously?

Penny Bright
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July 5, 2015 2:23pm
Jack5

Help me, Pot People!

Kowtow at 12.06 says of cannabis found in the Schier family’s house:

half a kilo is shit load…

Is that a lot of cannabis? Could a couple conceivably have that amount for their own use?

Kowtow: you know an awful lot about the prosecution. Far more than I remember reading locally in the media at the time, and far more than can be found on the Internet? Were you in the police team?
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July 5, 2015 2:25pm
SGA

hj at 1:20 pm

With horses already domesticated why would you stick with a Zebra?

From memory, people were interested in trying because zebras had a better natural resistance to some African diseases/parasites.
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July 5, 2015 2:40pm
kowtow

jack 5

All i know is what i read locally. It impressed me at the time as so many people were behind the Schiers, and that’s great. But when it came out that they had had that amount of dope at home ( I wasn’t aware a firearm was involved) all that goodwill seemed to go and rightly.

I’ve provided the links ,have a read.

The guy had been caught in Eu heading to a border ( can’t remember which) with a carload of dope . Youthful mistake ? Comes to NZ and doesn’t declare his past and yet is still involved in criminality. How many chances do you give someone.

half a kilo of dope, believe me that’s an awful lot.
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July 5, 2015 2:48pm
UglyTruth

My vote would be for 26 September when we became a self governing dominion.

Sorry but a dominion, by definition, can never be self-governing.
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July 5, 2015 2:50pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Some of you have got into reading ecological overviews, I see…

How about this recent one from Dan Botkin
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2015/07/04/an-ecologists-perspective-on-pope-franciss-encyclical-letter/

(Sorry Griff, I couldn’t access it from the original site….. I’ll go and stand in the corner and whisper wing-nut to myself 3X)
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July 5, 2015 2:51pm
Shawn Herles

America the Good: Justifying America to a doubtful audience.

Jonah Goldberg debates with British Lefties and Islamists at Oxford University…and wins.

Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/220812/oxfords-preposterous-proposition-jonah-goldberg
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July 5, 2015 2:58pm
Michael

Dixon just before he scored that try and just after he scored it.
We really need to see the frame in between, but the TMO had a good look at it and a try was given.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/super-rugby/69969888/chris-boyd-tmo-wrong-on-elliot-dixon-try-in-highlanders-win-over-hurricanes
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July 5, 2015 3:09pm
holysheet

Kowtow said
half a kilo of dope, believe me that’s an awful lot.

Not when you consider our own Penny must weigh 60 kgs.
Now that is a lot of dope……….
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July 5, 2015 3:09pm
Shawn Herles

The Iranian Spy Empire.

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/iranian-spy-empire_983066.html
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July 5, 2015 3:10pm
Griff

Don’t you mean a loons view on climate science maggy .

Clearly these authors had to know that climate had changed in the past, and it had always been changing,

Meaningless twaddle.
We are presently changing the earths climate faster than has happened at anytime we have yet found.

One of the things I have learned in my now 45 years studying nature and attempting to understand how it works, is that life is not fragile. It has persisted for 3 ½ billions years.

Seen any dinosaurs lately ?
“Life” as a whole is not fragile.
The existence of individual species is.
From the wooly mammoth to moa we know species can disappear in a mater of years.
Our human civilization is built upon a stable climate. Look at what is happening right now in California for a graphic example of how reliant on a stable climate our civilization is.

Just another case of posting rubbish from a loon like your last effort with Matt Ridly.
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July 5, 2015 3:14pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Another trying to inveigle poor Denny

Dear old Denny
and poor, poor Penny
How long must we wait
to discover their fate
is a match made in heavenny?
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July 5, 2015 3:15pm
publicwatchdog

60 kgs HolySheet?

I wish ….

Ahhh – there comes a time when you are no longer a size 10 🙁

(I’m sure there are other Kiwibloggers who are getting older and wider? 🙂

Kind regards

Penny Bright
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July 5, 2015 3:17pm
Shawn Herles

UK: ‘Sex Groomed’ Children Preferable to Backlash Against ‘Multiculturalism’

“Not only do recent revelations concerning the endemic sexual grooming of British girls by Muslim men demonstrate how crippling political correctness is, but they show how political correctness complements the most abusive elements of Islamic law, or Sharia.

According to a June 24 report by the Birmingham Mail, as far back as March 2010, West Midlands Police knew that Muslim grooming gangs “were targeting children outside schools across the city—but failed to make the threat public.”

A confidential report obtained under a Freedom of Information Act indicates that police were well aware that British pupils were being targeted by mostly Muslim men.

The 2010 report also reveals how these “Asian” gangs used victims to target other girls. For example, by using “a young girl in a children’s home to target and groom other residents on their behalf…. The girl’s motivation to recruit new victims is often that the provision of new girls provides her a way to escape the cycle of abuse.”

Other victims were systematically “forced into prostitution and high levels of intimidation and force are used to keep the victims compliant.”

Although police knew all this, the Birmingham Mail said it “is unaware of any police public appeals or warnings from that time”—appeals and warnings that no doubt would have saved many girls from the Islamic sex rings.

So what paralyzed police from any action, even warnings to the community? The report sheds light:

The predominant offender profile of Pakistani Muslim males… combined with the predominant victim profile of white females has the potential to cause significant community tensions…. There is a potential for a backlash against the vast majority of law abiding citizens from Asian/Pakistani communities from other members of the community believing their children have been exploited.

Once again, then, political correctness—this time under the pretext of fear of a “backlash”—was enough to paralyze the police from arresting Muslim sex predators and releasing their victims.”

http://humanevents.com/2015/07/03/uk-sex-groomed-children-preferable-to-backlash-against-multiculturalism/
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July 5, 2015 3:18pm
Maggy Wassilieff

(I’m sure there are other Kiwibloggers who are getting older and wider?

most of us are getting older and wiser
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July 5, 2015 3:21pm
publicwatchdog

Ok Kiwibloggers – back to the cereal stuff ….

If in the USA – there is SO much milk being supplied that it’s being dumped – why would the USA dairy industry tolerate more milk products coming from New Zealand?

What do the USA dairy industry have to say about the TPPA and the potential flooding of the USA market with NZ dairy products?

Wouldn’t you expect the USA diary industry to be making their opposition to NZ dairy loud and clear?

Are they?

If not – why not?

Can New Zealanders really believe a WORD NZ Minister of Trade Tim Groser says about working in the best interests of New Zealand and the NZ dairy industry?

(Hat tip Black With A Vengeance 🙂

http://i.stuff.co.nz/business/farming/dairy/69962286/holy-cow-milk-supplies-overwhelm-us-dairies

Penny Bright
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July 5, 2015 3:25pm
Maggy Wassilieff

@Griff

Seen any dinosaurs lately ?

Indeed, I have… a few dozen in my garden this very moment

Just because some taxonomists want to elevate these beasts to their own class – Aves

I know damn well they are just feathered dinosaurs
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July 5, 2015 3:27pm
publicwatchdog

Some of us Maggie – are growing wiser and wider.

You can diet – you can exercise – I have found the solution is simple – just get bigger clothes 😉

How’s THAT for ‘wisdom’?

Kind regards

Penny Bright
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July 5, 2015 3:31pm
hj

Trump comes up top in ‘poll of polls’ of Republican voters – despite growing backlash over his anti-immigrant comments

‘Poll of polls’ shows Trump ahead of front-runner Jeb Bush
He defended comments calling Mexican immigrants ‘rapists’ despite some saying that phrases in his presidential campaign announcement were racist
Former candidate Romney said that Trump made ‘severe error’ and hurt the Republican party with the remarks
He also blasted candidate Marco Rubio for being ‘weak on immigration’

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3149611/Donald-Trump-polls-Republicans-defends-comments-immigration-despite-increasing-opposition-Mitt-Romney-saying-remarks-hurt-GOP.html#ixzz3ez7FalMV
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
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July 5, 2015 3:44pm
hj

EXCLUSIVE – Laugh out loud: UK schoolgirl jihadi’s sick reaction to the Tunisian massacre in a series of extraordinary online messages with undercover MOS reporter

Amira Abase said she was laughing out loud at Tunisian beach massacre
She was messaging an undercover MOS reporter whose Abase believed was another British teenager planning to run away to join Islamic State
Conversation reveals extent of indoctrination Abase has been subjected to
The 16-year-old fled Britain to join IS with two school friends in February

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3149629/Laugh-loud-UK-schoolgirl-jihadi-s-sick-reaction-Tunisian-massacre-series-extraordinary-online-messages-undercover-MOS-reporter.html#ixzz3ez9VX75y
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
…
See the problem isn’t an outlier issue; the problem is that multiculturalism exaggerates societies outlier types so large chunks can be outliers.
Down tickers should ignore Stephieboy with his Diversity Dividend and obviuos benefits of multiculturalism type masturbatory expositions.
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July 5, 2015 3:52pm
UglyTruth

“Not only do recent revelations concerning the endemic sexual grooming of British girls by Muslim men demonstrate how crippling political correctness is, but they show how political correctness complements the most abusive elements of Islamic law, or Sharia.

“forced into prostitution and high levels of intimidation and force are used to keep the victims compliant.”

O you who have believed, it is not lawful for you to inherit women by compulsion. And do not make difficulties for them in order to take [back] part of what you gave them unless they commit a clear immorality. And live with them in kindness. For if you dislike them – perhaps you dislike a thing and Allah makes therein much good.
Surah 4:19

Is there a reason why Captain Bubblehead doesn’t distinguish between true Muslims and Muslim hypocrites? Perhaps it’s because hypocrisy is a part of the Christian institution from when a Pharisee wrote a number of books of their religious canon…

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men’s bones, and of all uncleanness.
Mat 23:27
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July 5, 2015 3:54pm
Griff

Maggie it might impress some idiots but not anyone who has half an idea about such thing as….

Permian–Triassic extinction event (End Permian): 251 Ma at the Permian-Triassic transition. Earth’s largest extinction killed 57% of all families, 83% of all genera and 90% to 96% of all species[6] (53% of marine families, 84% of marine genera, about 96% of all marine species and an estimated 70% of land species, including insects).[9] The evidence of plants is less clear, but new taxa became dominant after the extinction.[10] The “Great Dying” had enormous evolutionary significance: on land, it ended the primacy of mammal-like reptiles. The recovery of vertebrates took 30 million years,[11] but the vacant niches created the opportunity for archosaurs to become ascendant. In the seas, the percentage of animals that were sessile dropped from 67% to 50%. The whole late Permian was a difficult time for at least marine life, even before the “Great Dying”.
Late Devonian extinction: 375–360 Ma near the Devonian-Carboniferous transition. At the end of the Frasnian Age in the later part(s) of the Devonian Period, a prolonged series of extinctions eliminated about 19% of all families, 50% of all genera[6] and 70% of all species.[citation needed] This extinction event lasted perhaps as long as 20 Ma, and there is evidence for a series of extinction pulses within this period.
Ordovician–Silurian extinction events (End Ordovician or O-S): 450–440 Ma at the Ordovician-Silurian transition. Two events occurred that killed off 27% of all families, 57% of all genera and 60% to 70% of all species.[6] Together they are ranked by many scientists as the second largest of the five major extinctions in Earth’s history in terms of percentage of genera that went extinct.

You really are scraping the bottom of the barrel quoting such silly nonsense from WTFUWT for someone who once attained a phd.
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July 5, 2015 4:00pm
publicwatchdog

Here you go Kiwibloggers – this is the view of the Dairy Companies of NZ about the TPPA:

“DCANZ media release: TPP does not add up for NZ without good dairy outcomes

Posted On: Wednesday, 24 June 2015

The Dairy Companies Association of New Zealand (DCANZ) is firm in its view that a good deal on dairy in TPP is necessary for any deal to stack up for New Zealand.

“The facts are that dairy accounts for 35% of NZ exports.

You can’t even come close to achieving an acceptable deal for New Zealand without a good deal on dairy” says DCANZ Chairman Malcolm Bailey.

DCANZ which represents the common policy interests of 11 New Zealand dairy companies, accounting for 98% of milk processed is following the negotiations carefully.

“There is no evidence that other countries in the negotiation have backed away from their major export interests, so there is no way New Zealand should back away from ours. We understand Japan continues to push for complete tariff elimination for automobile trade, which accounts for a similar percentage of Japanese trade, as dairy does for New Zealand. The removal of barriers for autos is important for them, and achieving liberalisation on dairy is important to us”

The importance of a good deal for dairy in TPP was conveyed by the full DCANZ Executive Committee to the government at a meeting in Wellington last week.

“We have been very clear about the need for good outcomes for dairy if we are to support the TPP deal” says Bailey.
…….”

To be quite clear – I am opposed to the TPPA because in my view, it is a secretive pro-corporate / investors ‘Bill of Rights’ – which will potentially ‘trump’ NZ’s rights to operate as a sovereign nation, give private corporations the right to sue our Government, and work in the interests of a corporate minority – not the public majority.

‘Nothing to hide – nothing to fear?’

Open the TPPA ‘books’ and show the public the text.

So – I for one do not believe the TPPA is going to work in the best interests of the NZ public majority.

But what about NZ businesses – especially the NZ export industry?

The TPPA is being promoted as being good for them.

But is it?

How do we know?

How do they know?

Are NZ businesses being shown the TPPA text?

How can they ‘closely follow the (TPPA) negotiations’ WITHOUT actually seeing the text?

And if NZ businesses can see the TPPA text (I don’t know if they can) – then why can’t the public?

It’s OUR future!

Penny Bright
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July 5, 2015 4:13pm
Manolo

Few are better liars: http://apnews.myway.com/article/20150703/us–dem_2016-clinton-8c5630b3e4.html

“I take a backseat to no one when you look at my record of standing up and fighting for progressive values,” Clinton said on a sun-dappled kickoff to the Fourth of July weekend in Hanover, New Hampshire.
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July 5, 2015 4:14pm
Manolo

It’s OUR future!

@Miss Dim: Your future should be getting the money to pay all your rates in arrears. No more bludging!
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July 5, 2015 4:15pm
UglyTruth

She’s not bludging, fool. District Councils run on fraud.
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July 5, 2015 4:33pm
Manolo

Polling booths opened 45 minutes ago in Greece. We shall know the outcome of the referendum by tomorrow morning.
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July 5, 2015 4:46pm
Maggy Wassilieff

I just checked with the local woodpigeons and they would rather be classified as extant dinosaurs (taniwha tohunga) than soon-to-be extinct kereru kai.
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July 5, 2015 5:00pm
Sofia

Penny Bright raises a very pertinent point –
Are NZ businesses being shown the TPPA text?

TPP Corporate Insiders is a list of 605 corporate advisers who have been allowed access to the TPP text, while the public and members of congress have been kept in the dark.

American Corporations are privy to the TPP text.
What of New Zealand Corprations – Fonterra for example

So why have Labour, Greens nor New Zealand First not asked this Question in Parliament?
What sort of Opposition are they? Besides just fucking useless?

In the USA there are those who seem not of the 11 countries involved–
Africa Business Initiative US Chamber of Commerce
Africa Society of The National Summit on Africa
Africa-America Institute

Perhaps not such big corporation cogs even –
Almond Board of California
American Peanut Council
California Strawberry Commission
California Walnut Commission
Interstate Battery System of America, Inc.

Then the more obvious ad nuseum –
American Butter Institute
American Forest and Paper Association
American Wood Council

But is Fonterra among them, and who else in New Zealand?
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July 5, 2015 5:06pm
kowtow

“To be quite clear – I am opposed to the TPPA because in my view, it is a secretive pro-corporate / investors ‘Bill of Rights’ – which will potentially ‘trump’ NZ’s rights to operate as a sovereign nation, give private corporations the right to sue our Government, and work in the interests of a corporate minority – not the public majority.”

Penny , I agree with you 100 %.
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July 5, 2015 5:20pm
Dennis Horne

Oh I do so love Penny Bright
Not quite with all my might
Just enough to read
A little of her screed
But Penny, I’m washing my hair tonight
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July 5, 2015 5:29pm
Michael

A wood pigeon flew over my head yesterday while I was out on my daily walk. This was in central Palmy. I hadn’t seen one for a while.
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July 5, 2015 5:35pm
Jacob

Will TPP corporate law trump New Zealand sovereign law?
Will any TPP corporate question outweigh the Treaty of Waitangi?
Will TPP surpass UN Indigenous People’s rulings
Is Ngai Tahu a corporation in the context of the TPP?

President Obama has his fast track law to slam the TPP through.
How long will Prime Minister John Key have to pass the law through all its stages in New Zealand’s Parliament?
Just wondering …
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July 5, 2015 5:42pm
Michael

Couldn’t those two lesbians have just gone to another bakery?

http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/americas/69973636/bakery-fined-200000-for-denying-wedding-cake-to-lesbian-couple
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July 5, 2015 5:53pm
Pete George

Michael – we regularly see kereru where I am in Dunedin. A few days ago one flew over me too, about half a metre over my head and landed on a branch bout three meters away. It perched there looking at me, and when I wandered underneath and away slightly it move to another tree and started feeding. Not uncommon here.
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July 5, 2015 6:24pm
Dennis Horne

Facebook ‘removes’ photo of gay teenager on Humans of New York page
Hillary Clinton joins thousands in sending her support to a gay teenager featured on the Humans of New York Facebook page
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/facebook/11717984/Facebook-removes-photo-of-gay-teenager-on-Humans-of-New-York-page.html

The narcissistic old queers are out promoting their sexually immature behaviour to the sexually immature children.
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July 5, 2015 6:25pm
Scott Chris

Some of us Maggie – are growing wiser and wider.

You may be half right there Penny.

Seems most kinds of intelligence peak at ages 20 and 50. It’s all downhill after that:

http://www.businessinsider.com.au/how-intelligence-changes-as-we-age-2015-3
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July 5, 2015 6:47pm
publicwatchdog

FYI Kiwibloggers – the NZ Parliament does NOT decide on the signing of the TPPA.

Cabinet Controls TPPA Approval Process, Not Parliament

– Jane Kelsey

Recent statements by politicians, corporate lobbyists and pro-TPPA commentators imply that Parliament gets the final say over the Trans-Pacific Partnership Agreement (TPPA).

That shows woeful ignorance of New Zealand’s treaty making process. The Cabinet Manual could not be clearer:

“7.112: In New Zealand, the power to take treaty action rests with the Executive”.

In practice, that means the Cabinet. Any claim that this is a democratic process is disingenuous.

Successive Governments have blocked changes to Standing Orders and legislation proposed by ACT and the Greens that would have given Parliament a stronger role in approving treaties. In both cases the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade vigorously and successfully defended its turf.

The text is not tabled in Parliament until it is signed, which means the Cabinet has already formally indicated its commitment to adopt the text.

It is then referred to the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Select Committee, which is required to report back within 15 sitting days, unless the Government extends the time. A reality check is necessary. If the TPPA is completed it will be the size of two telephone books.

Very few people can provide a comprehensive and informed submission within the available time.

Select Committee Process A Cosmetic Exercise

From past experience, the Select Committee process is a cosmetic exercise anyway, because the Government has a majority. Even if it wanted to propose changes, the Committee has no power.

The Cabinet can ratify the treaty while the hearings are still proceeding, as happened with New Zealand Thailand Closer Economic Partnership.

Parliament might be invited to vote on the TPPA, if the Government majority agrees, but the vote would be symbolic. Such votes were held on several recent free trade agreements – with the assurance of a bi-partisan National/Labour consensus.

That consensus is no longer guaranteed, given the Labour Party’s policy remit adopted at its November 2012 Party Conference (which said that a Labour government would only sign the TPPA if a number of conditions were met)..

Even where implementing legislation is required, Parliament could refuse to pass the laws, but if the treaty were already ratified New Zealand would then be in breach of its new obligations.

But the Government could seek to bypass legislation. Controversial changes to Pharmac, for example, might be made by regulation.

The sad truth is that our elected representatives, and we as citizens, are impotent to affect a process that the Cabinet effectively controls from start to finish. Those who claim it is not, from the Prime Minister down, are misleading the public deliberately or otherwise.
_____________________________________________________

Penny Bright
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July 5, 2015 6:54pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Seems most kinds of intelligence peak at ages 20 and 50. It’s all downhill after that:

Enjoy the slalom ride….
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July 5, 2015 7:06pm
Dennis Horne

There was an old botanist in Gizzy
Who got into a bit of a tizzy
On the slalom ride
Downhill slide
Knickers in a twist looking frizzy
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July 5, 2015 7:28pm
Maggy Wassilieff

@DH

Your prolificacy is staggering.
Please forgive an old girl if she can only manage one verse/week.
These are my declining years. (& the garden history programme is on Prime)
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July 5, 2015 8:30pm
OneTrack

Michael – “Couldn’t those two lesbians have just gone to another bakery?”

No. Heretics must be punished and purged. To the stocks with them.
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July 5, 2015 9:49pm
OneTrack

Maggy – ” (& the garden history programme is on Prime)”

Don’t talk to me about Prime. It looks like they may have given John Campbell a job as a reporter. Marvellous. Not.
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July 5, 2015 9:54pm
publicwatchdog

Ok Kiwibloggers – what’s your view on this one?

Can New Zealanders really trust our Minister of Trade Tim Groser, and Prime Minister John Key over the TPPA being in New Zealand’s ‘national interest’ – when the Inspector-General of Security and Intelligence, of her own volition, has launched an inquiry into the GCSB’s spying on Tim Groser’s rivals for the WTO leadership role?

How was this GCSB spying on Tim Groser’s WTO rivals in the ‘national interest’ of New Zealand?

Seriously – how can New Zealanders believe or trust these two Ministers who are arguably the two most fervent political advocates for the TPPA?
______________________________________________

Spy watchdog launches inquiry into WTO job surveillance
|
Last updated 15:42 14/05/2015

TRACY WATKINS

CHERYL GWYN: Inspector-General of Security and Intelligence.
The Inspector General of Intelligence and Security has launched an inquiry into the Government Communications Security Bureau following allegations it monitored rival candidates for a top World Trade Organisation job contested by a senior National government minister.

In a statement Thursday, Inspector General Cheryl Gwyn said her inquiry would focus on the way the GCSB considers undertaking foreign intelligence activities. The inquiry is in response to issues raised around Trade Minister Tim Groser’s bid to become WTO boss.

“I consider the issues raised about the process followed when the GCSB considers undertaking particular intelligence activity are of sufficient public importance to warrant an own motion inquiry,” Gwyn said.

“While it is unlikely that I will be able to publicly confirm or deny the specific allegations relating to this process, I can inquire more generally into how the GCSB determines, within its statutory constraints, what intelligence activity to undertake and what policies and procedures are in place to regulate its activities.”

Documents leaked by former US National Security Agency (NSA) contractor Edward Snowden showed the GCSB monitored email and internet traffic about international diplomats vying for the WTO job sought after by Groser.

The spying operation was active in 2013 and called the “WTO Project” by New Zealand’s Government Communications Security Bureau (GCSB), according to a top secret document obtained by the New Zealand Herald and United States news site The Intercept.

The operation involved covert surveillance of candidates from Brazil, Costa Rica, Ghana, Jordan, Indonesia, Kenya, Mexico and South Korea.

The Government and GCSB have not denied the allegation.
……”

Penny Bright
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July 5, 2015 10:14pm
Dennis Horne

There was an old warrior called Bright
Who saw everything in black and white
The flurry of facts
Spat out like tacks
Bounced of the chain mail of the Right
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July 5, 2015 10:56pm
Inandout

Tim Grosser is a convert to Islam, Penny, of course we trust him.
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July 5, 2015 10:56pm
UglyTruth

It will also come as a surprise to most that he is legally a Muslim, technically making him New Zealand’s first Muslim Cabinet minister.

But he said the designation was entirely technical and required so he could legally marry his third wife in Indonesia, whom he met while serving as New Zealand’s ambassador there.

http://www.guide2.co.nz/politics/news/trade-role-for-former-actor-socialist-and-diplomat/11/3948
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July 5, 2015 11:20pm
wellygirl

“Actually Wellygirl – that protest outside the US Consulate was only suggested on Friday 3 July 2015 and organised within 24 hours.”

Sometimes, some protests are called at VERY short notice.”

Maybe the protest organisers should look at their time management and organise the protests better so that they 1. gain better coverage, and 2. aren’t outside an office that is closed.

“PS Wellygirl – in Auckland there isn’t a USA Embassy.

That’s in Wellington.”

Really? I always wondered what that big building with the US flag on was…. (/sarc)

I do know that Penny, I am not sure what the point of that comment is, unless it was a sad attempt on your part to try and make out I was stupid or something….

“In Auckland – there is a US Consulate”

No kidding! A consulate in Auckland – gee I didn’t know that… (/sarc)

Penny, I am not sure what your point is?
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July 6, 2015 7:47pm
deadrightkev

It was a try.

But if the Chiefs were the opposition it was a knock on.
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July 6, 2015 8:32pm

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