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July 4, 2015 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 4 July 2015

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General Debate

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UglyTruth

Paranoid conspiracy theories blaming Islamic terrorism on the US/Israel serve the interests of Islamic terrorists.

Not really, it makes them look like pawns of the “Great Satan” rather than legitimate jihadists.

UT is either a Muslim or at least a fan of Islam. Either way, he serves the interests of Islamic terrorists.

You haven’t shown any coherent argument that I serve the interests of terrorism. You do, however, have a history of slandering me.
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July 4, 2015 5:42pm
Shawn Herles

Hmmmm….

The Japanese Empire murdered thousands of innocents. Islamic terrorists are murdering thousands of innocents.

And UT makes excuses for both. Bit of a theme there.

It seems that to get UT’s support, you have to be murdering innocents.
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July 4, 2015 5:45pm
UglyTruth

There are a lot of people in SEA and the Pacific who would disagree with that statement, and are probably happy that the US entered the war regardless of the circumstances.

At the end of the day it is the facts that matter, not people’s opinions about history.
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July 4, 2015 5:45pm
UglyTruth

The Japanese Empire murdered thousands of innocents. Islamic terrorists are murdering thousands of innocents.

And UT makes excuses for both. Bit of a theme there.

The murder of innocents is deplorable regardless of political affiliations. Shawn is lying when he says that I make excuses for it.
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July 4, 2015 5:48pm
Reid

The idiots who hallucinate complex topics like: did the US know about Pearl or did the US/Israel/Saudi Arabia and Turkey create ISIS and do they sustain it;, can be answered by some juvenile 30-second google query using keywords designed to produce sites that match their preordained conclusion, really show their naivety, don’t they.

Shawn is lying when he says that I make excuses for it.

Yes that’s all he knows UT. He’s a vicious hate-filled enraged fanatic. That’s all he knows. Certainly displays no Christian love. None whatsoever.
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July 4, 2015 5:50pm
cha

thedavincimode

Provincial roughage.
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July 4, 2015 5:54pm
Shawn Herles

“At the end of the day it is the facts that matter, not people’s opinions about history.”

You mean like your “facts” that alien reptilian lizard people run the US, the Earth is hollow, and Nazi UFO’s wre found in Antarctica?

I think we can safely say that you don’t have a close relation to facts UT.
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July 4, 2015 5:54pm
Shawn Herles

“Yes that’s all he knows UT. He’s a vicious hate-filled enraged fanatic.”

“The Jews desecrate their own graves to whip up sympathy”

POT. KETTLE. BLACK. 🙂
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July 4, 2015 5:56pm
wellygirl

“At the end of the day it is the facts that matter, not people’s opinions about history.”

Wow, good to know that you don’t think the opinions of those civilians that suffered at the hands of the Japanese soldiers in WWII matter, that youthink the opinions of those that experienced the occupation of Jpan during the war are not worth anything.

History is recorded by the victors, the facts we get are often revised to fit an agenda, whether political or personal, facts matter about as much as opinions of those who experienced history firsthand.
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July 4, 2015 6:00pm
UglyTruth

@Reid,

There is good secondary evidence that a US/Turkey alliance supported the instigation of religiously motivated war against Assad:

https://www.corbettreport.com/turkeys-false-flag-plan-what-youre-not-being-told/
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July 4, 2015 6:03pm
stigie

Some damn fine arguments today but looking forward to the rugby tonight.

Hope we dont have a running commentry from the outstanding BB ?
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July 4, 2015 6:05pm
Shawn Herles

Reid claims: “Certainly displays no Christian love. None whatsoever.”

‘Reid (18,300 comments) says:
April 3rd, 2015 at 11:11 am

So that’s how I roll stupidboy. I know how you roll. You’re an idiot. Who would want to be you.’

Reid (18,300 comments) says:
March 21st, 2015 at 10:46 am

“Reid, I make no apologies to your tirade against Susan Devoy ‘s call to accept more refugees .An eminently humane sane response given the humanitarian crises in Syria and the ME .”

I don’t give a fuck if you apologise or not stupidmoronfoolboy. All I ask is you stop lying and pretending that I myself have saidanything whatsoever about the refugee policy we operate in this country. So are you going to stop lying stupidmoronfoolboy, or not?

[DPF: That’s Strike 1. Less abuse in future]

Reid (18,300 comments) says:
April 20th, 2015 at 6:08 pm

I do and I live that everytime I engage with Captain Bananas. Clearly neither Captain Bananas nor Lucia believe in it themselves however, yet what’s the bet the sanctimonious little shits lie their little heads off and pretend they really, really do.

[DPF: Too abusive. That is Strike 2]
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July 4, 2015 6:06pm
wellygirl

Wow, Penny it looks like you and Cam Slater and Rodney Hide have something in common. Who u would have thought?

http://www.whaleoil.co.nz/2015/07/should-we-get-a-break-down-of-what-our-taxes-pay-for/#more-198081
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July 4, 2015 6:09pm
Griff

D4dementia has the inside running stigie.
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July 4, 2015 6:09pm
mikenmild

I understand he’s watching the game with his good friend Richie McCaw.
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July 4, 2015 6:11pm
UglyTruth

Wow, good to know that you don’t think the opinions of those civilians that suffered at the hands of the Japanese soldiers in WWII matter, that youthink
the opinions of those that experienced the occupation of Jpan during the war are not worth anything.

What matters is the facts about the Japanese aggression towards civilians under occupation are seen in context.

History is recorded by the victors, the facts we get are often revised to fit an agenda, whether political or personal, facts matter about as much as opinions of those who experienced history firsthand.

The “victors” don’t have a uniform philosophy on how history should be presented and so it is is possible to collect facts which don’t fit into the popular narrative.
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July 4, 2015 6:13pm
Reid

History is recorded by the victors, the facts we get are often revised to fit an agenda, whether political or personal, facts matter about as much as opinions of those who experienced history firsthand.

Unless of course those being sought for their opinions have also been captured by said agenda, which happens more than most people would think.

“The Jews desecrate their own graves to whip up sympathy”

Captain Bananas, I’ve told you before: that’s a standard Mossad technique. The Jewish people don’t do it themselves their Mossad buddies do it to them, for propaganda. And that’s what I’ve always said. I just googled that phrase on KB and interestingly the 5-6 hits I got were all of you lying and insisting I’d said it but not one of me actually saying that.

I know you’re a hate-filled white-hot-rage-filled lying poster here, but why don’t you tell the truth ever, on this?

Lest you get banned for lying?
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July 4, 2015 6:13pm
Shawn Herles

“I understand he’s watching the game with his good friend Richie McCaw.”

Should we send out a rescue party? Poor bugger! 🙂
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July 4, 2015 6:16pm
stigie

We still need to know what happened at LAX and our Dad seems to know ?

As Griff says, he has the inside running !~
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July 4, 2015 6:17pm
Shawn Herles

“Captain Bananas, I’ve told you before: that’s a standard Mossad technique. The Jewish people don’t do it themselves ”

No Reid, your first statement on the issue was Jews in general, not Mossad. You only changed it to Mossad when the original comment came back to bite you in the ass.

That’s lying.
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July 4, 2015 6:18pm
Shawn Herles

“We still need to know what happened at LAX and our Dad seems to know ?”

I’m curious to know what happened, if anything, myself.

But I would take anything D4J says with a very large grain of salt.

Including the claim that he was at LAX at all.
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July 4, 2015 6:21pm
Reid

No Reid, your first statement on the issue was Jews in general, not Mossad. You only changed it to Mossad when the original comment came back to bite you in the ass.

No it wasn’t. I’ve said many times over the years this is a standard Mossad tactic, dating back to the time I said on here that Mossad did it in Wgtn because its agents were on trial there for the passports.

So you’re going to need to prove that Captain Bananas. Should be simple. Find that post. Go on, liar.
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July 4, 2015 6:23pm
UglyTruth

You mean like your “facts” that alien reptilian lizard people run the US, the Earth is hollow, and Nazi UFO’s wre found in Antarctica?

No, you made 2 of those up. I know that the hollow Earth seems unlikely, but the empirical support for it is good (via th3e expanding earth model).

Carey ‘discovered’ the concept of expansion completely independently of any previous thoughts on the subject but his further research showed that a number of people had published similar proposals in the past. In 1933, one explanation for continental drift had been proposed by Ott Christoph Hilgenberg in his book, Von wachsenden Erdball, which roughly translates as ‘The Expanding Earth’.[2] He observed that all the continents could be reconstructed on a smaller diameter Earth and suggested that the Earth had expanded in size to split the continental shell into the various continents of today, until they eventually reached their present positions. Also the Russian engineer Jean Yarkovsky and the Italian geologist Roberto Mantovani had both independently suggested the concept towards the beginning of the 1900s.[3] But these ideas had been mostly ignored during their day since most people believed the continents were firmly fixed throughout geological time.

http://www.dinox.org/eehistory.html
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July 4, 2015 6:23pm
stigie

Oh come on Shawn apparently hes reliable, he says so himself !~
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July 4, 2015 6:24pm
wellygirl

“What matters is the facts about the Japanese aggression towards civilians under occupation are seen in context.”

Context? What possible context is there for the massacres they carried out in Manchuria? For the way they treated women and Children in concentration Camps? The use of Comfort Women? Seriously in an expansionist war in the 1930’s & 1940’s what context is there for their actions? I would be interested in how you defend what the Japanese army did and how you can diminish the opinions of those that experienced it. Please put it into context based on your experience of the Japanese occupation.
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July 4, 2015 6:24pm
nasska

At least Richie will probably get a good deal on his next pair of shoes stigie. 🙂
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July 4, 2015 6:29pm
stigie

Flats or high heels Nasska ?
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July 4, 2015 6:31pm
nasska

Dad will be able to advise on size, colour & style stigie.

It’s what he does. 🙂
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July 4, 2015 6:32pm
stephieboy

Ugly Truth , the occupation of Japan by the the Allies was a mercy mission compared to the horrors visited by the Imperial Japanese Forces in China and SE Asia etc,

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Horror-The-East-Laurence-Rees/dp/1849901678

http://www.gendercide.org/case_nanking.html

Are you suggesting that the Nazi invasion of Poland , Soviet Union, Balkans etc was defensive operation and mission of mercy ?
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July 4, 2015 6:33pm
stigie

“Including the claim that he was at LAX at all”.

Shawn, were you meaning Peter or Dad ?
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July 4, 2015 6:36pm
Shawn Herles

Dad stigie
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July 4, 2015 6:41pm
Reid

what the hell the point of the Vietnam war was

Excellent question Maggy.

The Vietnam War was in fact the brain child of Hollywood Jews; the purpose being to create a new movie and TV genre. I’ll leave Reid to fill in the fine detail.

Actually Maggie the point of the Vietnam War was to make the shareholders of the military-industrial complex wealthy and bugger the blood because it wasn’t their’s or their kins.

See when JFK was shot he had already announced a revision of the Vietnam threat assessment had resulted in a dramatic downturn in the need for US “advisers” and many of them were going to in fact leave for good, in the next few weeks.

Then after the fuss died down Johnson announced a revision of the revision had in fact determined that a massive effort was in fact required, and the rest is history.

But as I say, people who mattered, like the Bush’s, didn’t care, because they were special. Blood shed would be limited to those who didn’t.

Interesting isn’t it that the Bush family has supplanted the Kennedy family in the US political pantheon. Makes you wonder if that photo of Bush Snr at the book repository on the day of the shooting means anything. But of course that’s another story, far too detailed to go into now.

But that’s the answer Maggie. Good question.

Interesting too isn’t it that Eisenhower also warned about that, but everyone ignored him, didn’t they. Well, apart from a few like me and a small handful of others here.
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July 4, 2015 6:43pm
nasska

An international shoe salesman passing through LX. The plot thickens! 🙂
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July 4, 2015 6:44pm
nasska

….”what the hell the point of the Vietnam war was”….

While I’m not suggesting that war hasn’t provided many good business opportunities for the American elite the real reason is probably the obvious one Reid.

Remember that Korea, Vietnam & Malaya were seen as part of the “domino effect” where Communist forces pushed towards Australia one state at a time. The general thinking of the time was ‘better fight them in Vietnam than Sydney or Auckland’.

They were dangerous times despite what the revised history we are now force fed states.
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July 4, 2015 6:52pm
stephieboy

Reid, the Vietnam war the brainchild of Hollywood Jews ??? Now which cesspit did you dredge that up from ? Rense, Veteran’s Today, Stormfront ??

18 year old Bush Snr in on the JFK conspiracy ?? Hmm … Carry on and with some solid evidence and facts for change ??
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July 4, 2015 6:55pm
Shawn Herles

Reid, I remember your statement very clearly. It was Jews, not Mossad.

But, there is a big flaw in your new version: Mossad ARE Jews.

So your argument is the same either way.

Anyway, so as not to upset the thread tonight, I am ignoring anything else you say. And quite frankly, I find your batshit crazy conspiracy theories and blatant antisemitism are making me want to puke.

Have a nice day! 🙂

“Reid, the Vietnam war the brainchild of Hollywood Jews ??? Now which cesspit did you dredge that up from ? Rense, Veteran’s Today, Stormfront ??”

Probably. Stormfront is his natural ideological home.

The evidence for Reid’s Jew hatred is undeniable. Only a Jew hater would trot of this kind of hate-filled, pseudo-intellectual crap.

Night folks!
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July 4, 2015 7:00pm
stigie

Do we have a new international man of mystery…..?
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July 4, 2015 7:01pm
UglyTruth

Please put it into context based on your experience of the Japanese occupation.

It’s a pretty safe bet for you that I have no direct experience of that, wellygirl. Why are you attempting to limit the perspective I use in my argument?
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July 4, 2015 7:06pm
nasska

Bond…..James Bond but call me Dad. 🙂
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July 4, 2015 7:08pm
UglyTruth

The evidence for Reid’s Jew hatred is undeniable. Only a Jew hater would trot of this kind of hate-filled, pseudo-intellectual crap.

That’s some mighty fine circular reasoning that you’ve got going there, Captian Bubblehead.
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July 4, 2015 7:09pm
wellygirl

“Why are you attempting to limit the perspective I use in my argument?”

Why are you limiting the validity of opinion of those that experienced it?
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July 4, 2015 7:14pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Thank you davincimode & reid for your answers to my reflective/rhetorical question.

As I am an old fart, I lived through the Vietnam war days and had a vague general knowledge of what was going on and was familiar with arguments like the domino effect…. but what I didn’t appreciate until I went to Vietnam was the role of the Catholic Church in the politics and corruption of post WW2 Vietnam.

Go visit Vietnam… see the land that the Catholic Church owned…. its still bloody obvious… vast blocks of prime real estate dominated by Churches, seminaries, palaces etc….
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July 4, 2015 7:19pm
stephieboy

UT, speaking of circular reasoning – Hollow Earth>>> Flat Earth>>> Now expanding Earth >>>>???

Interesting . Where to next ???
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July 4, 2015 7:20pm
UglyTruth

Why are you limiting the validity of opinion of those that experienced it?

Because the argument was about the historical reasons for the occupation, and since they are not historians theirs are not expert opinions.
Facts and expert opinions carry weight in law, ordinary opinions don’t.
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July 4, 2015 7:21pm
stephieboy

Ugly truth, then in what sense is yours is based on” facts” and “expert “opinion ???
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July 4, 2015 7:23pm
big bruv

Where is D4J these days?
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July 4, 2015 7:28pm
Shawn Herles

Almost forgot. This was DPF’s response to Reid’s Jew/Mossad claim:

[DPF: You think the Israeli Government sends out spies to desecrate Jewish graves, to attempt to deflect criticism of Israel? Fuck that is bonkers.]

Classic! 🙂

http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/02/ralston_on_national-3.html
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July 4, 2015 7:30pm
Shawn Herles

“Ugly truth, then in what sense is yours is based on” facts” and “expert “opinion ???”

The same “sense” that he claims the Earth is hollow.

Nothing Ugly says is based on facts or expert opinion.
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July 4, 2015 7:33pm
Shawn Herles

“UT, speaking of circular reasoning – Hollow Earth>>> Flat Earth>>> Now expanding Earth >>>>???

Interesting . Where to next ???”

Islamo-Fascist Sharia Earth.
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July 4, 2015 7:34pm
UglyTruth

Nothing Ugly says is based on facts or expert opinion.

What I said about the hollow Earth being based on the expanding Earth is factual because the only way that the Earth can expand and maintain the same amount of mass is if there is a hollow void in the center of it.

My position is based on expert opinion because the supporters of the expanding Earth theory include geologists. The flaw in the counter argument from the experts that subduction is observed is that the amount of measured subdunction doesn’t account for the amount of measured expansion, which it must do for planet of fixed size.
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July 4, 2015 7:47pm
UglyTruth

DPF: You think the Israeli Government sends out spies to desecrate Jewish graves, to attempt to deflect criticism of Israel? Fuck that is bonkers.

Is it any more bonkers than thinking that the Israeli Government has carried out false flag terrorism (the Lavon Affair), or that the Likud party is politically descended from the people responsible for the bombing of the King David hotel?
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July 4, 2015 7:52pm
stephieboy

UT,

” expert opinion ” which exactly and based on what peer reviewed research ??
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July 4, 2015 7:55pm
Shawn Herles

The claim that Japan’s attack on PH was defensive is utter bollocks.

Japan’s first attack was actually on China, not the US. The Japanese thinking at the time, which is well documented, was that they needed an Empire because they wanted to be a great power. So they invaded China.

Japan’s actions were aggressive, not defensive, and they led to some of the most horrific war crimes history has ever seen, next to Nazi Germany.

Anyone who has seen the documentaries about Japanese war crimes, especially the rape of Nanking, knows that Japan was at the time an evil monster that had to be stopped.

UT’s defense of the Japanese Empire is, intellectually speaking, complete twaddle, and morally speaking, sick and evil.
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July 4, 2015 7:57pm
UglyTruth

The claim that Japan’s attack on PH was defensive is utter bollocks.

Excellent straw man, Captain. Nobody is claiming that.
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July 4, 2015 7:59pm
sam green

We’ve all heard innuendoes and gossip and conspiracy theories about all sorts of things stigie, including Michelle Obama being male. Either be explicit and say what you mean or stfu about your secret Peter stories. Why don’t you make a civil complaint to the police and get it properly investigated?
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July 4, 2015 8:05pm
Viking2

Shawn Herles (9,511 comments) says:
July 4th, 2015 at 7:57 pm

Were you not going to bed a bit earlier?

Shawn Herles (9,511 comments) says:
July 4th, 2015 at 7:00 pm

Reid, I remember your statement very clearly. It was Jews, not Mossad.

Night folks!

Seems you can’t even get that right.
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July 4, 2015 8:12pm
Shawn Herles

“Seems you can’t even get that right.”

Pathetic V2. Pathetic and petty.

I was supposed to be out an hour ago, but it had to be delayed as my friend is counseling a recovering heroin addict, who is in danger of relapsing. I’m out at 9.
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July 4, 2015 8:19pm
Shawn Herles

Some balanced commentary on the Harmful Digital Communications Bill.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/opinion/69873428/digital-communications-bill-will-safeguard-free-speech-not-curtail-it
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July 4, 2015 8:21pm
kowtow

“From the little I’ve seen (around Ho Chi Minh City and My Tho), its a thriving place.”

Saigon please.
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July 4, 2015 8:24pm
nasska

Sam Green

The subject of the privacy afforded politician’s families was discussed on this forum last night. It didn’t seem that anyone wanted spouse’s or children’s misdeeds to be subjected to scrutiny but the actions of the MP him/herself is fair game.

All good but when a spouse starts electioneering or offering excuses for their partner then the gloves come off. There was an instance of this a couple of weeks ago when the hapless Helen Craig was wheeled out to shore up the scummy reputation of her wannabe politician husband.

The same thing happened with Peter Davis. Little was said until he started openly campaigning for Helen Clark but from that point on what he gets up to in private is open to public scrutiny. He obviously hadn’t devoted much thought to that possibility but he has made his bed & he can lie in it.

The sordid details are discussed & speculated on here http://nominister.blogspot.co.nz/2008/02/clarks-latest-blunder-her-husband.html
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July 4, 2015 8:34pm
Maggy Wassilieff

@kowtow

This time next year (2nd July) you can celebrate the 40th anniversary of HCMC.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ho_Chi_Minh_City
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July 4, 2015 8:43pm
sam green

I’m not debating the actualities or non actualities. The continuous ” I know something you don’t” innuendoes are annoying. Be specific be explicit but stop being a child.
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July 4, 2015 8:49pm
Harriet

“……but what I didn’t appreciate until I went to Vietnam was the role of the Catholic Church in the politics and corruption of post WW2 Vietnam.

Go visit Vietnam… see the land that the Catholic Church owned…. its still bloody obvious… vast blocks of prime real estate dominated by Churches, seminaries, palaces etc….”

Vietnam’s communist – thank God the Catholics are allowed there.
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July 4, 2015 8:57pm
nasska

….”Vietnam’s communist – thank God the Catholics are allowed there.”…..

Vietnam’s communist regime are obviously deep thinkers who have studied history well Harriet. Traditionally, right through the Dark Ages up until about the time of the Reformation the RC church & the ruling classes were simpatico. The nobility gouged the peasants & the church kept the latter in their place with mumbo jumbo & promises of the next life. In return they enjoyed protection & a comfortable living.

No doubt the Vietnamese Catholic church will have had to “accommodate” the state but what’s a little corruption in return for riches?
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July 4, 2015 9:11pm
SGA

@mikenmild
Well… that’s the way the cookie crumbles.
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July 4, 2015 9:22pm
Black with a Vengeance

OTAAAAAAGOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO !!!

🙂
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July 4, 2015 9:45pm
Don the Kiwi

The Highlanders take the Super 15 final.

Great game – I think the bounce of the ball favoured them, and the ‘Canes missed a couple of great opportunties; and the first try that wasn’t – but the points went on the board.

Well done Highlanders.
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July 4, 2015 9:46pm
Nostalgia-NZ

The relatively easy win last week, home advantage and not wary or brutal enough against the underdogs is what undid the Hurricanes. They didn’t look like they went out afraid to lose against a team who had come to the park to cannibalise them. Bloody good game.
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July 4, 2015 10:02pm
Sponge

Hurricanes/Highlanders:

Just imagine what a hiding it would have been if the old Dad had been playing!
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July 4, 2015 11:41pm
Manolo

Quality journalism and incisive reporting: http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2015/07/03/reporters-had-the-rare-opportunity-to-question-hillary-clinton-heres-what-they-asked/
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July 5, 2015 6:35am
Manolo

Islamic kindness: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3149469/Slaughter-amphitheatre-ISIS-executioners-brutally-shoot-dead-25-Syrian-regime-soldiers-bloodthirsty-crowds-ancient-Palmyra-ruin.html

British lowlife and scum: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3149281/Russell-Brand-says-ll-Syria.html
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July 5, 2015 7:18am

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