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July 31, 2015 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 31 July 2015

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stephieboy

Dennis Horne, yes the Dutch safety Board will most likely determine the downing was cause by a BUK , but am not sure whether it’s in their previous to say who did it.All I know is that both the Ukrainians and Russians have provided the Board with their ATC and radar tapes .

I agree the rebels did not deliberately shot down M17 and yes the Ukrainian government did definitely did not have anything to do with it.

I guess the problem is that airlines have in the past used flight paths over war zones like Afghanistan and Iraq and continued to do so over the Eastern Ukraine at the time of the tragedy. I understand that an Air India flight had gone just before with one following.M17. Cruel misfortune for Malaysian Airlines , Crew and passengers !

If it ever gets out in Russia that that the rebels were responsible then its curtains for Putin .
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July 31, 2015 9:21pm
stephieboy

Ugly Truth , explain how those witnesses were able to see M17 at an altitude of 33,000 ft ( it would be tiny ) let alone a Su25. ?Furthermore there was cloud cover at the time where M17 was downed .

And now even Russian experts are now conceding M17 was shot down by a BUK,

http://www.smh.com.au/world/mh17-plane-was-shot-down-by-a-buk-missile-russian-weapons-manufacturer-says-20150602-ghfdco.html
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July 31, 2015 9:29pm
UglyTruth

National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration scientists have found a solution to the 15-year “pause” in global warming: They “adjusted” the hiatus in warming out of the temperature record.

New climate data by NOAA scientists doubles the warming trend since the late 1990s by adjusting pre-hiatus temperatures downward and inflating temperatures in more recent years.

http://dailycaller.com/2015/06/04/noaa-fiddles-with-climate-data-to-erase-the-15-year-global-warming-hiatus/
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July 31, 2015 9:30pm
SPC

The hiatus is caused by the super el nino of 1998 (an artificial high), followed by the 11 year period of decline in sun sport activity – and slow return of higher sunspot activity.
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July 31, 2015 9:48pm
Brigitte

I’m a little wary about coming to a conclusion about MH17. I think that there was a plane nearby as well as the flight being diverted south over the warzone. Both these would raise serious questions (even that the rebels fired at the Su25 and it either guided the missile or the shot was wayward and hit the passenger plane) that would muddy the narrative that it was Russia (although they don’t have any of the earlier Buk version that was likely used). Hence why no release of the black box data or full transcripts with air control. Notably no US data has been forwarded to the investigation either (as far as I can ascertain).

What it means (to me) is that the shooting down gave the US a reason to apply sanctions on Russia (which they want to do for other geopolitical reasons). So they are ensuring the least amount of information is released to prevent a full discussion which would weaken their case. BUT IMPORTANTLY, it doesn’t mean that the rebels and/or Russia are innocent either. We just do not know the truth. So any apportionment of blame is mere speculation.
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July 31, 2015 9:49pm
SPC

UT, 9.16pm. Observation by radar. An attempt to explain how the ones with the BUK got confused as to their target, without admitting who fired. In fact trying to blame the Ukrainians for it instead – rather than the Russian citizens involved.

Brigitte, sanctions on Russia were not related to the shooting down of the airliner.
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July 31, 2015 9:52pm
stephieboy

Brigitte,

Know one is coming to any conclusions about M17 except top say that strong circumstantial evidence implicates the rebels. if you see my link above even Russian BUK experts now concede that ti was missile that downed M17. There was no Su25 flying around at the time but the rebels had downed one and a An 30 Transport and a bigger A26 on the 14th July . The later could of only been done by a BUK

But the FDR recorders and the ATC tapes ,both Russian and Ukrainian ,were handed over to the Dutch safety board Re their interim report ,

http://www.onderzoeksraad.nl/en/onderzoek/2049/investigation-crash-mh17-17-july-2014

and Black boxes,

http://www.government.nl/news/2014/07/22/mh17-black-boxes-handed-over-to-dutch-safety-board.html
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July 31, 2015 9:58pm
wellygirl

“So – Kiwibloggers – what do YOU make of THAT?”

What I make of that Penny is that this Govt are doing what Govt’s before have done in not releasing information on confidential trade negotiations in order to limit any possibility of it harming their chances of getting the best possible deal.

I am pretty sure Labour did not release all the details of the FTA with China that they negotiated and signed – so Penny what do YOU make of THAT?

“Can YOU trust the assurances of National Government Ministers on the supposed benefits of the TPPA?”

As much as I could trust the Labour Govt Ministers on the supposed benefits of the China FTA – did YOU trust the assurances of the Labour Govt Ministers on the supposed benefits of the China FTA? If not what did YOU do about it? – oh, that’s right nothing.

“If not – what are YOU doing about it?”

Since I do, I am doing nothing.
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July 31, 2015 10:00pm
wellygirl

Biscuit @ 3:36 pm

“Penny, Penny, Penny, Penny…

Pray link me to your file copy of a similar missive you sent to Helen Clark when her Government, aided and abetted by one Phil Goff, signed what is (I am willing to bet) a very similar deal with China.”

Ah, alas Penny was apparently too busy protesting against the Auckland Supercity when the China FTA was signed, and she can only manage one cause at a time, apparently – which I find strange as most women are generally very good at multi tasking. 😉

Though, I do wonder at the timeline there, as I thought that the China FTA was signed about 12-18 months before the Super city decision was announced – but maybe Penny is clairvoyant…..
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July 31, 2015 10:07pm
UglyTruth

We just do not know the truth. So any apportionment of blame is mere speculation.

Running exercises at the same time fits the pattern of 9/11 NY and 7/7 London.

http://21stcenturywire.com/2015/07/17/mh17-one-year-on-what-really-happened-and-why/

In the weeks leading up to July 17th, NATO, led by the US, conducted two large-scale military and intelligence drills in the Black Sea region. The first was an annual affair named, SEA BREEZE 2014, which just so happened to end on… July 17th. The drill included hundreds of US military specialists running ‘war simulations’ in electronic warfare, data collection from a spy satellite, and ‘monitoring’ of all passenger aircraft flying in the region. In addition, both US and British armed forces had also scheduled a concurrent military exercise code named, Rapid Trident 2014, another NATO sanctioned international drill which takes place around the Ukraine, which, according to the US Forces in Europe website, is supposed to “promote regional stability and security, strengthen partnership capacity and foster trust while improving interoperability between the land forces of Ukraine, and NATO and partner nations.”
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July 31, 2015 10:12pm
Brigitte

“Brigitte, sanctions on Russia were not related to the shooting down of the airliner.”

Agreed, but my recollection is that the MH17 narrative played a part in the process (and in keeping them on/expanding them) as the Euro countries were a bit reluctant to put it mildly.

I didn’t say that the black boxes weren’t supplied – just that they haven’t been published. Hence the comment that we are merely speculating. There are a number of possibilities (such as UglyTruth’s) but no concrete evidence.

What will be more forthcoming with evidence is MH370. Be interesting to see what they can determine from that one piece of wreckage (assuming as is likely that it is from MH370). No doubt this will be revealed very quickly (like GermanWings) rather than not at all like MH17.
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July 31, 2015 10:19pm
SPC

UT 10.12pm, the sort of credulous search for patterns that reduces CT to the level of astrology.
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July 31, 2015 10:20pm
starboard

Yay ! End of murri language weak..good riddance
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July 31, 2015 10:22pm
Maggy Wassilieff

In 2015 Māori Language Week is from 27 July-2 August;
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July 31, 2015 11:11pm
Scott Chris

Be interesting to see what they can determine from that one piece of wreckage (assuming as is likely that it is from MH370)

My guess is that it fell off a flamingo. 🙂
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August 1, 2015 3:20am
Left Right and Centre

Talking of MHsomenumber – 470 ? . . .

Did anyone else see one Malaysian looking fella saying that he held out hope that the plane might’ve landed and the passengers could still be out there . . .*somewhere*.

Now that’s some serious, serious fucking extreme denial right there. That either is, or is borderline, mental illness.
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August 1, 2015 6:49am
Manolo

A holiday in Calais, France? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3181242/Striking-ferry-workers-burn-tyres-Calais-roads-causing-chaos-Brit-holidaymakers.html
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August 1, 2015 7:20am
UglyTruth

UT 10.12pm, the sort of credulous search for patterns that reduces CT to the level of astrology.

No, some kind of concurrent exercise is unavoidable if you are running a false flag. If that exercise is too big to be hidden then the only alternative is to make is to run it within the framework of ordinary security exercises.

In both of the cases of 9/11 NY and 7/7 London, the public face of the exercises involved changing from reacting to simulated events to reacting to actual events which mirrored the simulated events (i.e. 9/11’s Operation Tripod and 7/7’s Visor Consulting exercise).
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August 1, 2015 9:08am
stephieboy

Ugly Truth, sorry but you are discussing what is known as a coincidence with some cherry picking. In places like the US and the UK drills, exercises, classes are happening regularly in response to a a number of contingencies and scenarios including extreme weather events, major accidents, riots, terrorist attacks etc.

Resne claimed e.g that there was a FEMA military drill close to Sandy Nook. However it was in fact a class looking at the special needs of children in respect of disasters like floods, fires etc .

http://training.fema.gov/is/courseoverview.aspx?code=is-366

and,

https://www.metabunk.org/drills-on-the-same-day-as-terrorist-attacks.t2094/
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August 1, 2015 9:23am

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