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July 11, 2015 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 11 July 2015

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General Debate

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Manolo

It is all in the family. Savages of the world, unite!
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3156072/Somalia-terror-group-Al-Shabaab-pledge-allegiance-ISIS-terrifying-expansion-Caliphate.html
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July 11, 2015 8:05am
martinh

Thanks John Key for making us, our children and grandchildren all slaves to the chinese landlords. Why dont we just put the chinese flag in where the union jack currently is. My grandpa will be turning in his grave over this sell off of our country and his town.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11478719
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July 11, 2015 8:05am
duggledog

Cat’s out of the bag now National

40% of house sales in Auckland are to Chinese.

You can quibble over it but that’s going to be the mainstream perception in New Zealand – a confirmation of suspicions.
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July 11, 2015 8:09am
hj

Flipper had a clip about Bob Jones punching a journalist. I used to have a lot of respect for Bob Jones with some reservations (“one coat of paint on the roof, not two: you don’t get paid for two” wasn’t me). I think now however, we have reached peak Bob Jones. He is just one of the old boys who is part of the problem not part of the solution. He can do no more than sling off at the left and write silly pieces in the Herald.
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July 11, 2015 8:18am
Southern Raider

There is a public display about the rainbow warrior at The Cloud in Auckland this weekend seemingly put on by the Council.

Somehow it seems the council has also agreed for Greenpeace to host a public display about their activism, what tactics they use and how people can become activists.

Bloody great
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July 11, 2015 8:21am
Shawn Herles

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umKk9jtt6wM
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July 11, 2015 8:24am
Dennis Horne

40% of house sales in Auckland are …

making us, our children and grandchildren all slaves …

Getting some insight into the deep-seated hatred of a certain group in Europe for centuries.
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July 11, 2015 8:27am
Odakyu-sen

duggledog

It’s all here: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11478719

Whites selling to Chinese. Other “Asian” groups buying in proportion to their presence in the market, but the Chinese: wow! (Where do people from a communist country get so much money? (of those from mainland China).

Reminds me of a story about a natural spring on some old farmer’s land up in the hills in rural Japan. For many, many years, the local people had dropped into get this water for free. The old farmer didn’t mind. Then the old man passed away, and his son sold off the land to a Chinese concern, who immediately set up a bottling plant and made a killing exporting to China. They also stopped the locals from getting the free spring water that they had been accustomed to (customary rights, anyone?). Of course, you can imagine the ill-will among the local community. But the Chinese didn’t care, and the locals had no legal comeback.
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July 11, 2015 8:29am
martinh

Dennis, finding out why people think its alright to sell our houses off to any foreigners is important. Is it because you like Key and Smith arent a patriot?
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July 11, 2015 8:30am
martinh

Im awaiting your answer Dennis as its important to understand why you think its ok
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July 11, 2015 8:38am
Dennis Horne

The jewry’s out on that one, martinh.
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July 11, 2015 8:39am
Shawn Herles

“40% of house sales in Auckland are to Chinese.”

OMG!!!! Did you know they look different to us, and eat different food???

People who look different and eat different food are dangerous!

Think about it, they might actually watch different TV programs to us!!!!

This will lead to very bad things happening!

Or not.
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July 11, 2015 8:43am
martinh

Come on Dennis you are just embarrassing yourself, that trite comment was pathetic, most other countries put their countrymen first, il be courteous and give you a chance to actually formulate a proper answer.. so go on tell us why you think its ok.

Shawn, you totally miss the point about whats happened in the chinese sharemarket and how this chinese effect could happen here and what it means for the well being of nzers being renters not owners
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July 11, 2015 8:44am
G152

People of Asian origin with money are buying property in a buoyant market ?
Oh the horror.
Being part of a free market system these things happen..
Or will Liebor pull the race card when they finally get to be government
and demand birth certificates be presented at every land sale ?
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July 11, 2015 8:46am
Odakyu-sen

Shawn,

As the song by the Police goes: “Poets, priests and politicians, have words to thank for their positions…”

If you change the language and the culture, then a lot of people in the old order will lose their power.

And they don’t like that.

Know what I’m saying?
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July 11, 2015 8:47am
stephieboy

Shawn, your video reminds me of the numerous like ones pandering to Ant Jewish prejudices and hates where similiar sweeping assertions, generalisations are made about them.

It does not acknowledge the fact that Islam in various eras lead the way in promoting interfaith tolerance including with Christians . If I was a Jew living in Medieval Western Europe I would much rather live under the Ottomans where there was relatively much more tolerance to the Children of the book,

A word about he Mahomet’s alleged pedophillia .There was a in his time a quite different idea both in the Middle East and Western Europe about the age of consent that can shock us to this day. In fact childhood as we understand it was more a creation of the Victorian age and subsequently. I don’t think your video contributes to international understanding between the more moderate members of faiths but rather reinforces barriers of hostility and ignorance between Christians and Muslims. Certainly your inflammatory video is not the islam I come into daily encounter in multicultural Auckland and the Mosque nearby in Mt Roskill.
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July 11, 2015 8:47am
Manolo

Why the xenophobia? Are the houses moving anywhere because they are owned by Asians?
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July 11, 2015 8:48am
Shawn Herles

I don’t think we are in any danger of that happening Odakyu-sen.
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July 11, 2015 8:50am
Dennis Horne

martinh. Read all I said and put two and two together. How’s your spelling, by the way? Mine is very good.
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July 11, 2015 8:51am
Shawn Herles

“Shawn, your video reminds me of the numerous like ones pandering to Ant Jewish prejudices”

I don’t like communism either stephie. Does that mean I don’t like North Koreans or Cubans?

It’s about ideology, not ethnicity.
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July 11, 2015 8:52am
Manolo

@stephieboy: Do you subscribe to Islam’s treatment of women? Do you believe they are mere chattels of their husbands, as your beloved religion teaches?
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July 11, 2015 8:52am
Akaroa

There seems to be a lot of anti-Asian-ism afoot on these pages this morning! I think its basically fear of the unknown that makes people – er, SOME people – nervous about Chinese living amongst us.

Well, I’ve three times lived amongst manly Chinese populations in Hong Kong, Bangkok and Singapore – on each ocassion for two or three years spells.

In my experience Chinese make good neighbours. They are quiet, keep themselves to themselves most of the time, bring their children up to be good citizens with respect for their elders and when they don’t keep to themselves they are sensible civilised individuals. (I used to say – still do actually – that the Chinese have forgotten more about civilisation than we’ll ever know!!)

No. Give me a Chinese neighbour any day rather than some – repeat only SOME – New Zealanders i could mention!!.
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July 11, 2015 8:57am
martinh

Dennis, im trying to put what your said together.
Please help me here we go.
You criticised my spelling so can you please tell us for starters what this words correct spelling is “jewry’s” and what you mean by it because it seems inane
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July 11, 2015 8:59am
hj

A Maori perspective on the flag

By Gareth Morgan

https://garethsworld.com/blog/treaty/a-maori-perspective-on-the-flag/?
…….
She says the right things “the flag doesn’t represent all the beautifu cultures”. But which Maori gets to speak?

Ranganui Walker

“In March 1991 the Government Working Party on Immigration reported to Mr Birch, the Minister of Immigration. The report recommended the adoption of a points system for the selection of immigrants with skills and money for business investment in New Zealand.
The Minister called meetings with a limited selection of 13 Maori leaders in Auckland and 14 in Wellington to consider the report.
They were mainly leaders of voluntary organisations. Few of them represented tribal groups. Although many speakers spoke against the immigration proposals, they were ignored. When the Minister was questioned in Parliament during the debate on the Immigration Amendment Bill, he cited all those in attendance at the Maori
meetings as being ‘broadly positive’ towards his immigration scheme.
This glossing over of Maori opposition is consistent with the procedure of elites generating policy from above and imposing it on the people below. The report was a fait accompli, and the Minister’s restricted discourse with Maori leaders after the fact, gave an illusion of democratic consultation. The select committee hearings on the Bill were also a charade. Of the 75 submissions made to the committee, 73
opposed the Bill. The two submissions in favour were made by immigration
consultants, the people who earned substantial fees from processing immigration papers for clients wanting to get into New Zealand.

Walker
(1995: 286) notes that the 1986 review “asserted that New Zealand is a country
of immigrants, including the Maori, thus denying their right to prior discovery
and millennial occupation of the land. Defining Maori as immigrants negates
their first-nation status as people of the land by lumping them in with European
immigrants who took over the country, and postwar immigrants from the
Pacific rim.”

The Immigration Policy Review went on to state that the aim of the new policy
initiatives was to “enrich the multicultural fabric of New Zealand society
through the selection of new settlers principally on the strength of their personal
contribution to the future well-being of New Zealand” (Burke, 1986: 10).
Walker (1995: 292) considered this multicultural ideology to be a direct
negation of the Maori assertion of the primacy of biculturalism, thus giving the
government another way of neutralising Maori claims for justice, especially as
the new migrants would have no commitment to the Treaty of Waitangi. He
concluded:
For these reasons, the ideology of multiculturalism as a rationale for
immigration must be rejected. Although its primary rationale is
economic, the government’s immigration policy must be seen for what
it is, a covert strategy to suppress the counter-hegemonic struggle of the
Maori by swamping them with outsiders who are not obliged to them
by the treaty (Walker, 1995: 292).

http://www.waikato.ac.nz/__data/assets/pdf_file/0017/74141/dp-37.pdf
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July 11, 2015 8:59am
stephieboy

Manolo, I do subscribe to a view of women that is more in keeping with progressive and more liberal perspectives which is not in keeping with either islamic nor your more fundamentalist and anti progreesive views.!
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July 11, 2015 9:00am
martinh

Akaroa, you miss the point, this aint the chinese neighhours, its about the chinese overseas buying all the Auckland homes away from those who live here.
Paulus below you totally miss the point too
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July 11, 2015 9:00am
Paulus

Please show me some evidence of 40% of houses sold to Chinese in Auckland.
For 14 years in Wellington we had a great Chinese family as neighbours opposite.
In Tauranga I now have a Chinese family next door – they are great with good polite and friendly children, and welcome them as good neighbours – a three generation family.
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July 11, 2015 9:03am
mikenmild

Are you worried about other overseas buyers, martinh, or is it just the Chinese that give you the shits?
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July 11, 2015 9:03am
Fifi la Belle

Women are only good for one thing.

And I’m very bad.
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July 11, 2015 9:05am
Shawn Herles

“which is not in keeping with either islamic nor your more fundamentalist and anti progreesive views.!”

Mainstream Western conservatives, and for that matter mainstream conservative Christians, do not have views concerning women that are anything remotely like Islam, let alone Islam in practice.
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July 11, 2015 9:06am
martinh

Yes mikenmild all overseas but 40% gives me the biggest shits
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July 11, 2015 9:06am
hj

Akaroa (1,014 comments) says:

July 11th, 2015 at 8:57 am

There seems to be a lot of anti-Asian-ism afoot on these pages this morning! I think its basically fear of the unknown that makes people – er, SOME people – nervous about Chinese living amongst us.
……..
So all you see is benefit? You don’t see displacement as an issue?

‘As clover killed the fern, and the European dog the Maori dog, as the Maori rat was destroyed by the pakeha rat, so our people also will be gradually supplanted and exterminated by the Europeans’.“
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July 11, 2015 9:08am
HB

You can be against foreign ownership of houses without being xenophobic – the two issues are being muddled in some of the comments above.

I am uncomfortable with some things now being part of the ‘global market’, such as housing. We just can’t compete. With that, we are seeing foreign people with very little or no connection to NZ buying up housing stock.

With a product such as lamb or milk powder we still own the means of production. Yes, we are paying higher prices now to purchase these goods because we are buying on a global market but you can see the difference?
This is why people were upset about foreign companies buying farms and water bottling plants. I think housing is in the same category for people as this. Yes, I am aware that housing is not a productive industry BUT it is still a finite resource (being land based).

It doesn’t really matter about who the foreign people are as much. It you keep focussing on them being Chinese then this becomes the issue (accusations of xenophobia, racism etc). Would you be complaining if it was Canadians? I think we would be. Because the end result is the same – over-inflated house prices, houses owned by overseas landlords with no interest in NZ outside their monetary investment etc.
When people start demonising the Chinese it clouds the real issue and gives people who want to deflect criticism of the housing issue an opportunity to rebuff arguments by focussing on racist comments.
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July 11, 2015 9:09am
mikenmild

So it’s a broad ranging xenophobia then.
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July 11, 2015 9:09am
Manolo

How do you reconcile those two diametrically opposing views, stephieboy? Your local iman needs to have a stern word with you.
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July 11, 2015 9:09am
igm

Wait till pissed off landlords start selling their non-insulated properties . . . if Chinese have the readies they will get them. If we still had domestic rentals they would, as our others, be sold to the highest bidder. It is easy for some loser in a state house stating to whom our properties are sold. Commerce is commerce, it keeps the leeches DPB payments rolling in.
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July 11, 2015 9:10am
Shawn Herles

The question then becomes, how many of the Chinese people buying homes are immigrants, and thus citizens, and how many are actually living overseas and have no intentions of becoming Kiwis.

I agree that large scale foreign ownership of land is not something NZ should aspire to.

Anyway, off to work.
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July 11, 2015 9:11am
martinh

mikenmild
I suppose with a comment like that you support all participants at the olympics and if you actually want kiwis to win you would thus be a hypocrite. If im wrong please feel to correct me or you can run away with your tail between your legs like Dennis
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July 11, 2015 9:13am
Viking2

So long as the house buyers manage to get to the provinces before the tap gets turned off that will be good. I will sell and retire at last.
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July 11, 2015 9:14am
stephieboy

Shawn, not even here and other similar in say in the US ?

Bible clear: Separate roles for men and women – Gloriavale teacher

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11441330

Manolo, I believe you understand my views very well but instead typically lie about them.

As a Fox , Tea party and WND fan are you a progressive or anti progressive ??
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July 11, 2015 9:14am
Inandout

martinh: So you would prefer Somalians to be buying Auckland properties, you know, that group where members one week are wallowing in civil war, and the next moving into a comfortable Mt Roskill house. I would be concerned if Asians made up 60% of our prison population, were killing their children, took a lion’s share of our social welfare spending, were continually demanding special privileges; that does not seem to be the case. Property owning by non residents is precarious at the best because they can’t take their asset out of the country, they can merely take the capital gain, and if a future government took draconian measures via taxation they would be stuffed. But of course if you don’t like Asians as people your argument is going to be flawed.
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July 11, 2015 9:16am
Jack5

When the Auckland housing bubble inevitably bursts, and this coincides with a still-falling NZ dollar, the still-in-the-mainland Chinese investors will be gone like the wind from the Auckland market. They won’t be back for a long time, if at all.

Unless, of course, the Chinese Government pressures the NZ Government to somehow keep the market inflated. The Communist Government of the People’s Republic of China is doing that right now with the Shanghai sharemarket. More than a thousand companies have been able to freeze trading of their shares, and the Government has been ordering brokers to buy shares.

NZ is paying the price for not diversifying exports. National’s enthusiasm for China and the dairy bubble have led to us changing from being an economic dependency of Britain to being a dependency of Beijing.
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July 11, 2015 9:16am
hj

mikenmild (13,989 comments) says:

July 11th, 2015 at 9:03 am

Are you worried about other overseas buyers, martinh, or is it just the Chinese that give you the shits?
…..
He chastises liberals for being “uncivil, overly sure of their correctness, and willfully ignorant of facts that contradict their worldview.”
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Lyle_Rossiter
http://fellowshipoftheminds.com/leftwing-pathology/
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July 11, 2015 9:17am
HB

“So it’s a broad ranging xenophobia then”

not so much that they are foreign – it’s more about the flow-on effects this creates, which I also mentioned – crazy over-inflated prices so local people are priced out of the market, absent landlords who have no other interest in NZ (not just financially but emotionally).
I’m not sure if I am wording this well.
I don’t see how it is xenophobia when I don’t have a problem with ANY local people buying houses.
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July 11, 2015 9:17am
Pete George

Grant Robertson has laid a breach of privilege complaint against John Key for misleading Parliament. It appears that Key was a bit loose in a statement about ‘official advice’ from Inland Revenue.

But Robertson seems to be mistaken or mistruthing a bit too.

“Budget documents released yesterday show the Inland Revenue told John Key the exact opposite of what he told Parliament.“Inland Revenue actually said the impact of scrapping the kickstart on KiwiSaver providers would be a ‘lower numbers of KiwiSaver members (particularly among the self-employed and children)’.

But Robertson refers to a Treasury report and not to any Inland Revenue documents or statements.

– Breach of privilege complaint against Key

But this hasn’t stopped Labour’s mistruth mob repeating Robertson’s loose claims.

What the IRD said was:

it would lead to “lower numbers of KiwiSaver members (particularly among the self-employed and children)”.

– Anthony Robins’ mistruth about Key lying
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July 11, 2015 9:19am
stephieboy

Inandout, what Somalians living in Auckland are currently waging civil war in East Africa ??

hj, very pertinent question . Are your concerns about just Chinese and other ethnic buyers like Indians and Pakistani’s ??
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July 11, 2015 9:19am
mikenmild

hj
You think Rossiter made some valid psychological points, or was it just complete bullshit?
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July 11, 2015 9:19am
Nookin

How would you deal with this, martinh? Ban house sales to anyone who is not an nz resident or simply single out chinese or others of asian descent?
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July 11, 2015 9:20am
martinh

in and out
no i wouldnt prefer somalians, what i want is people who live and work here of course
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July 11, 2015 9:22am
Awww C-mon

Did y’all actually read the article… In the horrid… From liebour ???

40% of purchases from one company had Chinese lolling/sounding names???

For fucks sake that’s proof alright.
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July 11, 2015 9:24am
martinh

Nookin
Id like the former and totally hate the later

Jack5, totally right
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July 11, 2015 9:25am
HB

yeah, I read it.
It’s the only evidence on offer since no one else has bothered to measure it.
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July 11, 2015 9:25am
martinh

Pete George
No, the ird did say that and key said they didnt.
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July 11, 2015 9:26am
Manolo

Is it the same Grant Robertson, who aspires to be the next socialist leader? He failed twice but will keep trying.
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July 11, 2015 9:27am
stephieboy

martinh, what evidence do you have that Somalians are not choosing to work here ??

Yet another rabid right wing nut in our midst ?
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July 11, 2015 9:27am
Shawn Herles

Quick answer as I’m strapped for time stephie.

“Bible clear: Separate roles for men and women – Gloriavale teacher”

Note that I said MAINSTREAM. Gloriavale is not mainstream conservative Christianity, not remotely so.

“As a Fox , Tea party and WND fan are you a progressive or anti progressive ??”

I don’t read WND, and I’m conservative, not progressive. Trying to claim that mainstream Western conservatism and mainstream conservative Christianity are equivalent to Islam is about as batshit crazy as claiming that anyone who disagress with Obama’s policies is a racist white supremacist.

Sometimes stephie, your brain goes walkabout.

By for now.
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July 11, 2015 9:28am
Pete George

martinh – show me where IRD said that. Robertson linked to a Treasury document, not to IRD.
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July 11, 2015 9:28am
martinh

Sure Pete, i read it yesterday il have a look for it
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July 11, 2015 9:29am
martinh

Pete Here it is
http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/money/70116334/ird-document-contradicts-john-keys-claims-about-kiwisaver-changes
“While the regulatory impact statement from IRD dedicated only one line to the impact on the numbers who signed up, it predicted there would be a fall.”
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July 11, 2015 9:31am
hj

Stephieboy

hj, very pertinent question . Are your concerns about just Asian and other ethnic buyers like Indians and Pakistani’s ??
……..
So you want to know if I’m just being racist? Does that mean so see no merit in the original complaint?
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July 11, 2015 9:33am
martinh

Stephieboy.
I thought he was referring to overseas somalians not local ones here of course
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July 11, 2015 9:33am
hj

martinh (1,312 comments) says:

July 11th, 2015 at 8:05 am

Thanks John Key for making us, our children and grandchildren all slaves to the chinese landlords
……..
Unlikely to make Radio NZ?
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July 11, 2015 9:36am
Dennis Horne

martinh (1,307 comments) says: July 11th, 2015 at 9:13 am
run away with your tail between your legs like Dennis

You’re barking up the wrong tree.

In the Channel Islands there is a two-tier price system for houses. One price for the locals, and another — about double — for the few wealthy foreigners who are allowed to live and buy there. Foreigners include the mainland British.

My family didn’t build this country for the benefit of aliens. My father and his brother didn’t go to WWII to defend us from invasion, so the politicians could sell it off.

Key is selling the country off and many of our children will be paupers.

The greed of the Right and the stupidity of the Left.
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July 11, 2015 9:36am
Inandout

stephieboy: They aren’t waging civil war here, but their war zone mindset lingers; have a chat to those who clean up the mess.
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July 11, 2015 9:36am
wiseowl

As more evidence emerges about the distortions being created by uncontrolled immigration I would like someone to explain why the National MP,s don’t give a toss.Who is driving them.Certainly not the voters.
When you have an MP who sends stock answers to constituents ‘thankyou for your comments’ on a serious issue, you know they are either too arrogant or away with the fairies.
Smith has to be in lala land and is one who sees nothing wrong with mass immigration after 30 years in parliament and falling from one mess to another.
Lets compel landlords to do something.
Hahahahahahahaha.
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July 11, 2015 9:37am
martinh

Dennis
Key is selling the country off and many of our children will be paupers.

The greed of the Right and the stupidity of the Left.”

We are in harmonic agreement here!
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July 11, 2015 9:38am
Pete George

Stuff also appears to be incorrect. The regulatory impact statement “has been prepared by the Treasury in consultation with Inland Revenue.” It was a Treasury document and didn’t quote IRD.

Grant Robertson:

Budget documents released yesterday show the Inland Revenue told…

That links to http://www.treasury.govt.nz/downloads/pdfs/b15-info/b15-3137274.pdf

It wasn’t IRD, it was The Treasury.
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July 11, 2015 9:38am
wiseowl

I’m with you Dennis.
This country was built by a mix of people and made into a great place to live.

The factors that make it great are being dismantled and the people that built it are being kicked in the guts by their representatives.
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July 11, 2015 9:41am
Inandout

martinh: The ‘live here’ ruling is not far off, but that will not prevent Mainland Chinese from investing through family members; not unlike a rich Aunty who lends you money at a nominal interest rate to buy a house – no difference really.
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July 11, 2015 9:41am
Nookin

So you would also ban australians?
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July 11, 2015 9:44am
publicwatchdog

NZ Prime Minister John Key to be held accountable for not telling the truth and misleading the House?

“The Labour Party has laid a formal complaint against Prime Minister John Key. Photo / Mark Mitchell, NZ Herald
By Isaac Davison

The Labour Party has laid a formal complaint against the Prime Minister, claiming that he misled Parliament about his advice on removing a Kiwisaver subsidy.

Labour’s finance spokesman Grant Robertson said he had made a breach of privilege complaint against John Key today.

In May’s Budget, National scrapped the $1000 “kickstart” subsidy for signing up to the Kiwisaver scheme.

A week later, Green Party co-leader Metiria Turei asked Mr Key in Parliament what the impact of the change would be.

Mr Key said it would not “make a blind bit of difference to the number of people who joined Kiwisaver”.

Asked for evidence for this claim, Mr Key said his answer was based on formal advice from the Inland Revenue Department (IRD). He said he would be “very, very surprised” if enrolment rates changed after the subsidy was removed.

Mr Robertson said Budget documents released yesterday showed “the exact opposite” of what Mr Key told Parliament.

IRD officials advised in a regulatory impact statement that removing the subsidy would lead to a fall in subscribers to the scheme.

Under a section titled “likely impacts”, the briefing paper predicted “lower numbers of Kiwisaver members (particularly among the self-employed and children)”.

This was the only reference to enrolment numbers in the 20-page document.

A month after the Budget, New Zealand’s largest Kiwisaver provider ANZ Bank reported that enrolments had fallen by more than half.

Instead of reflecting the IRD advice, Mr Key “made a blanket statement claiming the IRD backed his position”, Mr Robertson said.

“The Prime Minister has a fundamental requirement to tell the truth to Parliament,” he said.

“Blatantly misrepresenting advice he receives brings the integrity of Parliament into question.”

Speaker David Carter will now decide whether the complaint should be referred to the Privileges Committee.

Government scrapped the kickstart payment because Kiwisaver already had 2.5 million members and ministers felt it no longer needed a sign-up perk.

Getting rid of the subsidy was expected to save around $125 million a year.

A spokesman for the Prime Minister said he stood by his comment.

A briefing paper prepared for Cabinet a month after the IRD advice said removing the kickstart payment was “likely to have only have a limited effect (if any) on enrolment rates in Kiwisaver” because other subsidies and employer contributions remained ….”
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July 11, 2015 9:45am
Pete George

Would Samoans be banned from ownership? Tongans? Fijians?
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July 11, 2015 9:46am
HB

Does anyone know how well the British and Australian policies have worked?

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11478719

Australia – ban foreigners from buying unless they build a new house or live here
Britain – allow foreigners to buy but tax their capital gains heavily
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July 11, 2015 9:49am
kowtow

HB @909

Great comment.

Racism? Had it been any other organisation than labour trawling through the records for Chinkey sounding names I ‘d bet the house on sackings all round for racism.
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July 11, 2015 9:50am
Viking2

all this ho ha. I can recall the same stuff being said about Dutchman and the poms in the fifites and sixties.
The Dutchies worked hard and prospered, the poms drove the unions.
Australians complained about the ITi’s and Greeks

Nothing new under the sun.

Oh and we Kiwi’s complained bitterly about the Chinese when they bought up Chowick in the 80’s.

Just more of the same.
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July 11, 2015 9:51am
martinh

InandOut
Yes i fear that will happen too
Pete George
Point one and three in the regulatory statement page 11 show that IRD was implicitly involved and John Key himself says “that it was from formal advice from the IRD”. So unless John Key has documents from the IRD which contradict this work from the Treasury which was from close consulation with IRD then it must be this document hes talking about but lied to us about its content.

So either the Ird are total fools and are saying two totally different things or Key has mislead parliament, either way this should get interesting
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July 11, 2015 9:53am
UglyTruth

The greed of the Right and the stupidity of the Left.

How about the greed of the Right and the laziness of the Left?

Stankov (2009) cited evidence that people with more conservative views tend to score lower on IQ tests and to have lower levels of education. Not surprisingly, conservatives tend to react with anger to such assertions. Accusations of liberal bias among academics are often made and there does appear to be a degree of truth to these, especially among social psychologists in particular (e.g. Prentice, 2012).

An alternative theory, originally proposed by Hans Eysenck, is that higher intelligence is associated with avoidance of extreme political views in general. Hence, more intelligent people are thought to be moderate/centrist in their political views. The argument is that more extreme views, whether right-wing or left-wing, tend to be associated with dogmatism and rigidity, which are more appealing to less intelligent people.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/unique-everybody-else/201305/intelligence-and-politics-have-complex-relationship
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July 11, 2015 9:53am
martinh

Nookin,

yes i would ban Australians.
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July 11, 2015 9:56am
hj

The Nation is covering the Chinese buyer issue. Popinjay David Seymour thinks the housing market can run as fast as foreign buyers and immigrants. He doesn’t want a “race based debate”.
What do our pathological liberals Milkenmild and Stephieboy think?
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July 11, 2015 9:56am
HB

Viking2 – All your examples were people who had moved to NZ, lived here?

I also don’t have a problem with that. I don’t care where they come from either as long as they met the requirements of NZ law for doing so.
I think perhaps the rate could be slowed a little to help us adapt to the infrastructure needed to cater for the growing population though.
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July 11, 2015 9:56am
Pete George

@martinh: “Point one and three in the regulatory statement page 11 show that IRD was implicitly involved”

Yes, “The Regulatory Statement has been prepared by the Treasury in close consultation with Inland Revenue”.

But Robertson claimed “Inland Revenue told” and “Inland Revenue actually said” – there’s no evidence of that, it’s false based on the link he provided.

And NZH:

A spokesman for the Prime Minister said he stood by his comment.

A briefing paper prepared for Cabinet a month after the IRD advice said removing the kickstart payment was “likely to have only have a limited effect (if any) on enrolment rates in Kiwisaver” because other subsidies and employer contributions remained in place.
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July 11, 2015 9:58am
publicwatchdog

From the IRD website:

“Repeal of KiwiSaver kick-start payment

Agency Disclosure Statement

1. This regulatory impact statement has been prepared by the Treasury in consultation with Inland Revenue.

2. It was prepared following a request from the Minister of Finance to provide advice on options to reduce the fiscal cost and improve the target effectiveness of the KiwSaver scheme and in particular explore the removal of the $1,000 kick-start payment paid to all new enrolees in the scheme. The advice was requested in advance of Budget 2015 and therefore has been prepared urgently.

3. The analysis in this statement has been prepared following the completion of the Inland Revenue-led KiwiSaver Evaluation and relies on its findings. ….”

Penny Bright
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July 11, 2015 9:59am
martinh

Pete George
I take your point but to me the substance in the issue is this-
Wheres the ird document that John Key said the kiwisaver change wouldnt make any enrollment difference??
If there is, then it contradicts what the Treasury wrote in “close consultation with IRD or John Key made it up.
Which one do you think it is?
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July 11, 2015 10:01am
Lance

Labour clearly don’t want any Asians ever voting for them based on Twyfords idiotic ramblings in the Hoorald this morning.
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July 11, 2015 10:05am
Pete George

I’m not questioning IRD’s input. But Robertson’s claims look as iffy as Key’s, so I doubt that his breach of privilege complaint will get anywhere apart from be the catalyst for misinformed and untruthful hits.
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July 11, 2015 10:06am
martinh

Pete
Look at this on record from Parliament
“[T]he removal of the $1,000 kickstart contribution will not make a blind bit of difference to the number of people who join KiwiSaver,” Key told Parliament on May 26, claiming the statement was derived from “the formal advice from the Inland Revenue Department”.

So this briefing paper (the one you quote from the NZherald to Cabinet) somehow gets what the Treasury has written wrong?
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July 11, 2015 10:06am
G152

Looks like Phil Twyford is Liebor spokesman for racism…
People are investing in a buoyant house market in Auckland
and shock, horror, some of them are Chinese
Are Liebor encroaching on Peters first territory?
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July 11, 2015 10:08am
Pete George

The Treasury report is not “formal advice from the Inland Revenue Department”.

A spokesman for the Prime Minister said he stood by his comment.

A briefing paper prepared for Cabinet a month after the IRD advice said removing the kickstart payment was “likely to have only have a limited effect (if any) on enrolment rates in Kiwisaver” because other subsidies and employer contributions remained in place.

It shouldn’t be unusual to get different advice at different times.

I think Key was referring enrolment rates with the target population and failed to clarify this excluded the “poorly targeted” – the self employed and children.
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July 11, 2015 10:14am
martinh

Pete
So you dont question the IRDs input. So you either then think that the briefing paper puts in totally the wrong information or Key lied.
Im interested to know which one do you suspect actually happened?
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July 11, 2015 10:14am
publicwatchdog

Going to ‘source’ – here is the Labour Party Press Release on this matter?

“Breach of Privilege complaint to be laid against PM

Friday, 10 July 2015, 1:07 pm
Press Release: New Zealand Labour Party

10 July 2015

Breach of Privilege complaint to be laid against PM

The Labour Party will today lodge a breach of privilege complaint against the Prime Minister for misleading Parliament over advice he received about scrapping the KiwiSaver kickstart.

Labour’s Finance spokesperson Grant Robertson says John Key misled the House on May 26 during the following exchange:

Rt Hon John Key: Firstly, savings records have improved under this Government. Secondly, there are multiple ways of measuring those things. And, thirdly, the removal of the $1,000 kick-start contribution will not make a blind bit of difference to the number of people who join KiwiSaver.

Metiria Turei: What evidence does the Prime Minister have that the sign-up rates for KiwiSaver will not be affected?

Rt Hon John Key: That is the formal advice from the Inland Revenue Department, and it is supported by the view that the people who are joining KiwiSaver are essentially doing so because it is now well organised within the workplace. Some of the big scheme providers are extremely well organised. We have got about 15,000 to 20,000 people joining in a month. I would be very, very surprised if it changes at all as a result of this.

“Budget documents released yesterday show the Inland Revenue told John Key the exact opposite of what he told Parliament.

“Inland Revenue actually said the impact of scrapping the kickstart on KiwiSaver providers would be a ‘lower numbers of KiwiSaver members (particularly among the self-employed and children)’.

“Instead of reflecting this advice, the Prime Minister simply made a blanket statement claiming the IRD backed his position.

“The Prime Minister has a fundamental requirement to tell the truth to Parliament. Blatantly misrepresenting advice he receives brings the integrity of Parliament into question.

“John Key must lead by example by having the highest standards of integrity. If he can’t be trusted to be truthful in Parliament, how can the public have confidence in any of his statements or those of his ministers?”
———————————————————–

In my view, if the Prime Minister is supposed to hold his Ministers accountable to the ‘highest ethical standards’ – he should lead from the front.

In my view – not being truthful and misleading the House (thus the public) is NOT ‘exhibiting the highest ethical standards’.

Penny Bright
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July 11, 2015 10:16am
hj

Akaroa (1,014 comments) says:

Give me a Chinese neighbour any day rather than some – repeat only SOME – New Zealanders i could mention!!.
……..
The issue isn’t neighbours; the issue is buying a house (in a nice locality) that is affordable. Of course that isn’t an issue for

-Some- people!? 😉
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July 11, 2015 10:17am
martinh

Pete
If this Treasury report is not the “formal advice from the IRD” that he was referring to then Key could clear this up right away by releasing that information. But hes chosen not too, to let this sore fester , or they dont have it
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July 11, 2015 10:20am
hj

Auckland property buyers

Stephanie Rodgers 1

11 July 2015 at 10:05 am

Naturally Labour will be attacked for being “racist”

That’s because making assumptions about whether people are New Zealanders or not, or what their ethnicity is based on their surname, is pretty damn racist.

Not to mention how weak this “analysis” sounds. Data based on “leaked information” from one real estate firm? Data which says It is not known if the Chinese buyers were based here or overseas, but gets spun by Twyford as “strongly suggests there’s a significant offshore Chinese presence”?

I cannot see any value in this tactic beyond bog-standard racist dogwhistling.

http://thestandard.org.nz/auckland-property-buyers/

She works for a union. Fsssss!
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July 11, 2015 10:22am
publicwatchdog

In my view Pete George – on this question of whether PM John Key misled the House by saying:

“And, thirdly, the removal of the $1,000 kick-start contribution will not make a blind bit of difference to the number of people who join KiwiSaver.”

you are ‘dancing on the head of a pin’ – as it were ….

Penny Bright
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July 11, 2015 10:25am
hj

On the Nation, is much like the Panel: they are saying racist, racist, racist. The Public place journalists on the same level as politicians.
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July 11, 2015 10:25am
stephieboy

Inandout (1,042 comments) says:
July 11th, 2015 at 9:36 am

stephieboy: They aren’t waging civil war here, but their war zone mindset lingers; have a chat to those who clean up the mess.

Who is ” those ” precisely ?
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July 11, 2015 10:31am
HB

I guess it is easier to talk about than the real issue of local residents not being able to afford houses anymore.
Local residents being people living in NZ. Not based on race at all.

UGH – this is what I was talking about in my original comment at 9.09. It has descended into arguments about race, rather than the effects on people of the over-inflated house prices.
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July 11, 2015 10:32am
wf

To go back to the beginning of the discussion: most people in NZ have only the slightest of passing interest in Auckland’s housing problems. (Duggledog and martinh please take note.)

It thinks that Auckland has made its own bed, and can lie on it.

The rest of the NZ population tries to get on about it’s business without listening to the endless complaining chorus drifting down from the north.
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July 11, 2015 10:41am
martinh

HB yes its the tactic that Nick Smith does every time and it treats us with such disrespect by trying to make it a racist issue
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July 11, 2015 10:42am
minus

publicwatchdog – you are ‘dancing on the head of a pin’ – as it were ….

Penny Bright will not be satisfied with so-called accountability of Auckland Council until they have a public register of all pecuniary interests (like that which the Prime Minister is subject to) for all contracting and contractee persons connected to the Council, and then she may consider paying her rates.

Local Government (Rating) Act 2002, section 45 (f) the amount and a description of each rate

To claim that this covers what Penny Bright wishes, is also dancing on the head of a pin 🙂 … as it were
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July 11, 2015 10:45am

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