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June 8, 2015 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 8 June 2015

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General Debate

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Manolo

This will warm stephieboy’s cockles: http://www.newsobserver.com/news/politics-government/article23312226.html
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June 8, 2015 2:33pm
Manolo

Faux news can never be trusted for the truth.

The AGW doom-brigade and loud apologists cannot be trusted either.
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June 8, 2015 2:35pm
Scott Chris

Re Milo. Remember New Coke?

Coca-Cola’s market share had been steadily losing ground to Pepsi and the company suspected that consumers preferred the latter’s sweeter taste, which they confirmed via numerous blind taste tests. However, the American public’s reaction to the change was negative, even hostile, and the new cola was a major marketing failure. The subsequent reintroduction less than three months later of Coke’s original formula, re-branded as “Coca-Cola Classic”, resulted in a significant gain in sales. This led to speculation that the introduction of the New Coke formula was just a marketing ploy.

What are the odds that old Milo will return as Milo Classic?
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June 8, 2015 2:42pm
Left Right and Centre

Let’s say you’ve got two twenty year olds with nothing both on benefits in a state house. No education or work history – zip.

How many children are you happy for them to have ? As many as they want ? 5-10 ? More ?

Are we saying that anyone can have however many kids as they want regardless of circumstances ?

In the Emma-Lita Bourne case – what’s the full story with the parents ? Moved into state house in 2007 from caravan with how many kids ? How many while in the ‘house of horrors’.

Hang on – this house is horrible – we’re dirt poor with nothing – let’s have two-four more children. Say whaaaat ?

The youngest two then, toddler age – what was the thinking there ? Mindless underclass child factory – what else can you say ? Well – if all goes well, they’ll soon have another welfare child – and another. Why not ? Doesn’t cost them anything – sweet.

What do they want ? A little hotel to have ten kids in ?
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June 8, 2015 3:07pm
Jack5

A brave Muslim who I would be highly pleased to see as a refugee settled in New Zealand.

OR, would our Government allow itself to be bent by the Saudi Government? I suspect it may have been in the case of the two Saudis who disappeared from Christchurch and NZ after converting to Christianity.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3114419/Saudi-Arabia-s-supreme-court-upholds-sentence-10-years-jail-1-000-lashes-against-blogger-insulting-Islam.html
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June 8, 2015 3:11pm
emmess

If as this report suggest that China’s C02 emissions will peak and start declining within the next ten years.
http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-33040965

I would say at that point or very soon after that, the world as a whole will have stable or declining emissions, as the only significant areas of growth will be India and Africa.
So then please, can the AGW nutters admit defeat and then please just STFU? If not sooner.
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June 8, 2015 3:28pm
Griff

Dont get it do you .
Maths not your strong point?
Stable emissions just means constant growth in atmospheric co2 not exponential.
We need reducing emissions globally to keep co2 below 450ppm or according to the experts civilization itself is at risk.

As to shut the fuck up.

I really wish ignorant anti science fuckwits would shut the fuck up .

But they will not.
So I just point out their stupidity daily in the hope embarrassing them for their fuckwiterys will make them fuck up.
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June 8, 2015 3:43pm
emmess

So Griff, let me get this straight, if in say the late 2020s, world C02 emissions are declining and temperatures have been stable for around three decades, you lot will still be bitching at us?
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June 8, 2015 3:54pm
dime

“Yip we know all right dime
Faux news can never be trusted for the truth.”

whenever i see “Faux news” i pretty much ignore the comment.

but i can see why you hate them. after all, they hate your religion.
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June 8, 2015 4:07pm
SteveRemmington

I’m stunned!

Super Sysop Lynne Prentice wasn’t awarded the billion dollar IRD contract.

Perhaps he was too busy curing cancer, walking on water and reverse engineering the Hadron Collider?
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June 8, 2015 4:09pm
Griff

if in say the late 2020s, world C02 emissions are declining and temperatures have been stable for around three decades, you lot will still be bitching at us?

That would be a huge if .

As temperatures have not been stable for the last twenty years by any stretch,

The oceans were most of the energy goes have continued to warm unabated .
https://www.nodc.noaa.gov/OC5/3M_HEAT_CONTENT/
Even on the surface temperatures have continued the rising trend despite the wittering about a “pause”.
https://tamino.wordpress.com/2015/01/20/its-the-trend-stupid-3/
For us to see no rise by 2020 would take something on the level of a asteroid impact or one of the huge caldera letting go to drop temperatures considerably .
Either way we would be fucked.

If we stop emitting co2 tomorrow the world will continue to heat for the next fifty years or so.

There is an imbalance between energy coming in from the sun and energy leaving the atmosphere until this is resolved we will continue to warm.
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June 8, 2015 4:12pm
Manolo

Did your guru Al Gore teach you all these undeniable and incontrovertible facts?
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June 8, 2015 4:14pm
Dennis Horne

We have increased the level of CO2 40%, from 270 to 400ppm. CO2 is an important greenhouse gas. The greenhouse effect keeps Earth warm.

If Earth is not retaining more energy, why isn’t it? What is the mechanism?

As we all know, energy will heat matter up; the higher the mass the smaller the increase in temperature.

That is why you can hold a neon tube when the temperature of the light is several thousand Kelvin.

It’s most unlikely the Royal Society and the American Physical Society — for example — are involved in a scam.

Good on you, Griff, for persevering. Keep your pecker up!
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June 8, 2015 4:46pm
Shawn Herles

“It’s most unlikely the Royal Society and the American Physical Society — for example — are involved in a scam.”

That seems unlikely to me too.

At least in it’s more extreme forms, the anti-climate change argument looks very much like a paranoid conspiracy theory.
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June 8, 2015 4:53pm
Shawn Herles

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zh1RDwUYZlw
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June 8, 2015 4:54pm
Manolo

Isn’t P.G.’s master a wonderful and generous guy? http://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/other/mp-defends-passport-fee-decision/ar-BBkNVEX?ocid=mailsignoutmd
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June 8, 2015 5:06pm
Reid

because he appeared on there, what he said somehow means that fox news agrees with him 100%?

Yes we know dime, mental isn’t it.

However this is precisely how various people here insist on arguing. Shawn, stephie, mm and Richard II to name a few, all insist this is how logic works.

That if someone quotes an article on a site, then all articles on that site should be analysed and tested to establish the veracity of the quoted article.

The extension of this “logic” is of course that anyone on that site who says anything is automatically, according to these people, making that site liable for their mutterings. And this is merely what stephie is doing, extending the logic he and Shawn et al all use, all the time, everywhere, for everything.

Of course this is all barking, but despite the many and profound fallacies being repeatedly explained, all of them insist on doing it, so what can anyone do about it, except leave them swimming in their crapulence.
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June 8, 2015 5:35pm
Griff

That if someone quotes an article on a site, then all articles on that site should be analysed and tested to establish the veracity of the quoted article.

Well yes reid if you link to a site that I know tells lies I will not believe it without independent collaboration from a source I know doesn’t tell lies.
If fact of you link to American Thinker or infowars for instance I will not even bother trying to collaborate it just right it of as rubbish because little they have to say has any basis in realty.

summed up in the old chestnut
Fool me once shame on you fool me twice shame on me
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June 8, 2015 5:54pm
rightoverlabour

Had the kids complaining about the Milo. Thought it can’t be that bad. So I made myself a cup…. Nestle – you redefine moronic. It could almost be argued that you are guilty of false advertising. Guess who won’t be consuming any more Milo until they wake up and return to the old recipe. When kids go “ÿuk” you hare stuffed.
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June 8, 2015 6:01pm
UrbanNeocolonialist

Water vapour feedbacks are the key, and not at all well understood (Current IPCC estimates span a massive range of 1.5-4.5 per CO2 doubling), very un-settled science.
“there is high confidence that ECS is extremely unlikely less than 1°C and medium confidence that the ECS is likely between 1.5°C and 4.5°C and very unlikely greater than 6°C.”

Problem is that many recent papers that use actual real world temperature data rather than bad physics approximations (models) tend to be mostly clustered about the 1.5-2°C per doubling range.
https://climateaudit.files.wordpress.com/2013/12/fig-10-20a.png
Every year that the pause continues just drops this further and further.

From pre-industrial CO2 of 280ppm it is unlikely that we will ever even double (ie rise to 560ppm) when we are at 400ppm now. Fossil fuels (particularly coal) is likely to gradually taper off in the next few decades as their availability reduces and costs rise and nuclear, solar + better batteries start to undercut them.

We have already had about 0.8-1°C of warming since pre-industrial times (at the bottom of the as yet un-explained little ice age), so we are unlikely to get more than another 1°C. That is just not a significant problem and not sensible to address by anything other than adaptation.

Also note that assessment of economics suggests that up to 0.5°C more warming is actually economically positive/neutral for the world:
https://wottsupwiththatblog.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/toleconomicbenefit.jpg
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June 8, 2015 6:04pm
Reid

Life in Ukraine under Porky.

http://rt.com/news/265516-kiev-protest-against-government/
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June 8, 2015 6:06pm
Reid

“It is ironic that the U.S. would begin a devastating war, allegedly in search of weapons of mass destruction when the most worrisome developments in this field are occurring in your own backyard. It is ironic that the U.S. should be fighting monstrously expensive wars allegedly to bring democracy to those countries, when it itself can no longer claim to be called a democracy when trillions, and I mean thousands of billions of dollars have been spent on projects which both congress and the commander in chief know nothing about.” – Paul Hellyer, Former Canadian Defence Minister (source)

I wanted to leave you with this quote, because it makes reference to the world of secrecy, and the black budget.

“We already have the means to travel among the stars, but these technologies are locked up in black projects and it would take an act of God to get them out to benefit humanity. Anything you can imagine, we already know how to do.” – Ben Rich, Second Director of Lockheed Skunkworks
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June 8, 2015 6:13pm
Griff

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Steve_McIntyre

Steve McIntyre is a former statistician and minerals prospector and currently a prominent global warming denier. He is the proprietor of the Climate Audit blog (or, more accurately, “Climate Fraudit”[1]), somehow the co-winner of the 2007 Best Science Blog award (yeah, you just read that) and prime source for cranks in the field. McIntyre is guilty of the same shenanigans as most deniers: distortion of facts, egregious use of quote mining, statistical trickery, conspiracy theorizing, excessive whining, gross hypocrisy, and general stupidity. He is also a Canadian who hates hockey sticks.

see my June 8th, 2015 at 5:54 pm

Your second link is to a graph from a paper by Richard Tol
Google Richard Tol gremlins to find out the errors made in his maths invalidate the conclusion.
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June 8, 2015 6:15pm
UglyTruth

At least in it’s more extreme forms, the anti-climate change argument looks very much like a paranoid conspiracy theory.

So what? Pervasive long running conspiracies are nothing new – take the NZ civil state as one example.
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June 8, 2015 6:17pm
Dennis Horne

Water vapour feedbacks are the key …

Explains why there is no increase in the energy retained by Earth? How?
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June 8, 2015 6:17pm
Reid

Well yes reid if you link to a site that I know tells lies I will not believe it without independent collaboration from a source I know doesn’t tell lies.

Griff it’s logic like that that leads you to your fallacious AGW conclusions. There’s plenty of evidence AGW is a propaganda meme designed to facilitate wealth transfer but you long ago lost the ability to assimilate anything which contradicts your religion.

Just sayin mate.

Otherwise you’re quite astute. Apart from that topic.

What you need to do is to assess the content of the links (if you’re interested of course) and ignore the site its hosted on. As previously explained many times, no-one but no-one buys a book based on who published it, everyone buys a book based on whether or not it looks interesting to them at the time. That behaviour is just what I’m recommending, the former behaviour of not buying Doubleday but always buying Harper-Collins no matter what the book is, is what Shawn et al does. It is. Precisely.

And that’s mental. No question.

And P.S. – if you’re not interested in the topic, you don’t really have any authority to pretend you know what the answer is, so it’s nuts to dismiss something you know nothing about. It’s fine to say you know nothing but you don’t believe it. That’s fine. It’s nuts to say you dismiss it out of hand, but you nevertheless know nothing about it. Yet that’s what many here do, everyday, all the time.
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June 8, 2015 6:19pm
nasska

https://www.dropbox.com/s/4b0z1f9jo15j50w/Be%20safe%20be%20seen.jpg?dl=0
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June 8, 2015 6:24pm
Griff

Griff it’s logic like that that leads you to your fallacious AGW conclusions. There’s plenty of evidence AGW is a propaganda meme designed to facilitate wealth transfer but you long ago lost the ability to assimilate anything which contradicts your religion.

Every major scientific body on the planet is involved is a massive conspiracy rooted in work first done in 1890s in order to forward some wealth stealing scam.
Shows you do not separate science the evidence from politics the proposed solutions .

Science is a religion
no Reid science is the inverse of religion
one is based on ephemeral measurement the other is based on faith
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June 8, 2015 6:36pm
cricko

And if you needed confirmation that TVNZ have completely lost all objectivity in their, “reporting.”

6 pm news tonight, TV1 “political editor” Corin Dann, “reporting” on the governments new initiatives
on cold and damp homes begins his explanation with……

“And, in typical National style…… they have…..”

You are just a pittifull disgrace to the profession Corin Dann.

In the old days, Political Reporters reported the political news.
You had no idea of their personal political persuasion.

This prick just can’t help himself.
New Zealand deserves some neutral reporting of fact.
Another reporter…
Katie Bradford…”we have done everthing we can but still we can’t alter the opinion polls.”

FFS
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June 8, 2015 6:39pm
Dennis Horne

Griff it’s logic like that that leads you to your fallacious AGW conclusions. There’s plenty of evidence AGW is a propaganda meme designed to facilitate wealth transfer but you long ago lost the ability to assimilate anything which contradicts your religion.

Griff isn’t constructing an argument to rebut a statement, he is simply stating that, based on previous experience, he’s not going to bother reading the material.

You can’t get through life without a few healthy prejudices. There’d be no time. If I go to a restaurant and the food is no good, I might go back once if I get an explanation and apology but I wouldn’t keep going back.

“We already have the means to travel among the stars, but these technologies are locked up in black projects and it would take an act of God to get them out to benefit humanity. Anything you can imagine, we already know how to do.” – Ben Rich, Second Director of Lockheed Skunkworks

Unadulterated nonsense.
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June 8, 2015 6:40pm
Reid

If I see that creepy Vanity Fair cover of Bruce Jenner come across my Facebook feed just one more time, I’m going to gouge out my eyeballs and bleach the sockets.

http://barbwire.com/2015/06/06/one-screwed-up-jenner-ation/
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June 8, 2015 6:50pm
cricko

And, before the usual suspects thumb down my 6.39 effort, because of my moniker, led of course by griff.

Think. Do you deserve objective reporting of facts from your state owned TV station or not ?

When commenting on Fox TV on this site, many correspondents expose their ignorance of the difference
between News and Opinion programmes.

Here’s a challenge.

Can any one of you who claim that FN channel is biased cite any example of biased reporting in any Fox News report.

If you are correct it should be easy.

Bet you can’t.
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June 8, 2015 6:58pm
nasska

Hard not to agree Reid. I’m fairly sympathetic to people sorting out their own gender issues but the over the top publicity in the Jenner case doesn’t do much for their cause.
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June 8, 2015 7:01pm
Reid

It’s all propaganda nasska, it’s not news, it’s propaganda.
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June 8, 2015 7:04pm
Griff

biased reporting in fox news.
http://bfy.tw/Dtd
Criko I dont watch tv so couldn’t tell you about our news .
but I do read blogs
At the standard just as many comments can be found saying msm is biased right as can be found on here saying msm is biased left.
This suggest msm is probably nearly neutral in nz.
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June 8, 2015 7:08pm
cricko

By the way.

Did you notice that Jerry Collins was killed in a road accident in France.

Very sad news….. but headline news on TVNZ five nights in a row, and counting ?
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June 8, 2015 7:14pm
Reid

headline news on TVNZ five nights in a row, and counting ?

There’s something profoundly broken in our media. I suspect it’s the same overseas too, but it’s getting more and more and more trite as each year goes by, to the point it’s now at a ten year old’s level and descending rapidly.

I scan the headlines of stuff and herald .co.nz every lunchtime, and it’s trite childish lightweight b.s. in every single section in both papers, day after day, week after week. A strong interesting story that tackles a serious issue is the rare exception. Many days I just close both sites down having found nothing.

WTF is going on in these media’s manager’s minds? Do all of them every single person in NZ has suddenly become a complete fucking moron? If not then how do we explain what we’re seeing?
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June 8, 2015 7:22pm
cricko

Poor old Grif

Totally missed the point as usual, but still can’t help putting hs sixpence worth in.

WTF have blogs to do with hard news grif ? (let me help you.Nothing at all.)

I was talking about TV news.
You state that you don’t watch TV

Cant understand a diff between facts and opinion /

So why not just STFU ?
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June 8, 2015 7:24pm
Maggy Wassilieff

From Griff 6:36

one is based on ephemeral measurement

Its those bloody ephemeral measurements that are the problem…… seems we have a new set of data to consider each week.

(ok… I get that Griff might have meant empirical)
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June 8, 2015 7:41pm
cricko

Reid.
You are correct, there is something broken in our media. Every objective pundit knows that.

Pity we are too small a country for Rupert Murdoch to take an interest and establish a
Tv station with a Roger Ailes type in charge.

They would cream it, same way Fox has creamed cable news in USA.

People (those with enough brain to recognise the difference between news and opinion) would
flock to it.

Same as they have in USA, consistantantly voting Fox News the most trusted of all cable news channels
year after year.

FYI grif…. I’m talking about News, not Opinion. Get it ?
Well, to be fair maybe that’s too much to ask of Grif….

You just stick to getting your info from blog sites Grif.
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June 8, 2015 7:46pm
Viking2

Here’s the thing about Milo.

If you don’t like it and it seems most don’t then return the Milo back to the supermarket and demand your money back.
Its new and it is falsely advertised as “Milo” It ain’t the same product.

Super markets will soon tell Nestle where to shove their Milo.
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June 8, 2015 7:53pm
Shawn Herles

@ UglyLies

“So what?”

Paranoid conspiracy theories are a sign of mental illness.

“Pervasive long running conspiracies are nothing new”

The claims are nothing new, but that is all they are.

” take the NZ civil state as one example.”

It’s not an example.
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June 8, 2015 8:07pm
nasska

Rabbit becomes roadkill on the Auckland motorway:

Dominion Post or Red Radio…..”Labour would have prevented this carnage. Andrew Little shows his softer side as he bursts into tears after hearing of the tragedy”.

TVNZ or the Herald…..”Rabbit suffers excruciating death. John Key may have been driving killer car that deliberately slaughtered child’s pet”.

Kiwiblog & other sane social media…..”Nothing, zilda, zilch”.

The MSM in its quest for heart rendering trivia is eating itself. To appeal to the defectives it has abandoned the thinking person.
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June 8, 2015 8:08pm
Shawn Herles

@ Reid

“However this is precisely how various people here insist on arguing. Shawn, stephie, mm and Richard II to name a few, all insist this is how logic works.”

There is a vast difference between Fox News, CNN, the BBC and the freakshow of sources you use.

Nei-Nazi web sites, Kremlin controlled “news” sites, and people who get their geopolitics beamed into their heads by the “Galactic Council of Andromeda” are just not credible sources, and anything that appears on those sites is suspect from the start.

The MSM, and that includes Fox, can be somewhat biased, but that is all. That bias aside, they are still vastly more credible than the sources you use.
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June 8, 2015 8:11pm
nasska

That crook batch of tinfoil has a lot to answer for. 🙂
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June 8, 2015 8:12pm
EAD

@ Reid 7.22pm

“I scan the headlines of stuff and herald .co.nz every lunchtime, and it’s trite childish lightweight b.s. in every single section in both papers, day after day, week after week. A strong interesting story that tackles a serious issue is the rare exception. Many days I just close both sites down having found nothing.”

What is extremely obvious if you read so called “alternative” news is not just the light weight celebrity waffle the CMMM reports on, but also the real new items they don’t report on. In political parlance they call this “burying the bad news”:

http://asheepnomore.net/2015/06/05/10-stories-the-mainstream-media-ignored-while-obsessing-over-caitlyn-jenner/

NZ also doesn’t need cabal news – when you look at our MSM, one could argue all of it is in effect cabal news.
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June 8, 2015 8:17pm
Shawn Herles

So EAD and Reid want the MSM to be replaced by blogs that claim alien reptilian lizard people run the world, Jew hating Nazi sites that wank on about a global “Zionist” conspiracy, and anything controlled by Iran and Russia.

And this is supposed to improve things.

YEAH RIGHT!!! 🙂

Seriously, if that’s the best argument for good news Putin’s poodles can come up with, I think I’ll stick with the MSM and blogs run by people who are sane, like KB.
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June 8, 2015 8:24pm
RichardX

Reid (18,075 comments) says:
June 8th, 2015 at 6:19 pm
…
As previously explained many times, no-one but no-one buys a book based on who published it, everyone buys a book based on whether or not it looks interesting to them at the time. That behaviour is just what I’m recommending, the former behaviour of not buying Doubleday but always buying Harper-Collins no matter what the book is, is what Shawn et al does. It is. Precisely.
…

I don’t buy books published by Mills & Boon.
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June 8, 2015 8:27pm
Reid

What’s interesting EAD is the media is all the same. And the sheeple here hallucinate that being the same is unpossible under their beloved free market model. Being the same can’t happen because competition means it can’t be. And yet they are the same.

Look at their stance on Syria, on Egypt, on Libya, on Iran, on Ukraine, on Iraq, on the ‘war on tewwor,’ on 911, on FIFA, on poor widdle Iswael. They’re even the same on the stories they DON’T mention, like Yemen.

Aren’t they.

And that’s supposed to be unpossible.

And yet the sheeple here don’t even notice.

And worse, they keep on consulting that same old sameness, and expect to be informed. Something about definition of insanity springs to mind.
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June 8, 2015 8:35pm
Shawn Herles

“As previously explained many times, no-one but no-one buys a book based on who published it, everyone buys a book based on whether or not it looks interesting to them at the time. That behaviour is just what I’m recommending, the former behaviour of not buying Doubleday but always buying Harper-Collins no matter what the book is, is what Shawn et al does. It is. Precisely.”

I have demolished this remarkably dumb argument before, and will happily do so again.

When buying a work of fiction, or going to a movie, you are buying entertainment, not news. So when people buy entertainment, they may or may not care about the publisher, but it’s not important.

News is in an entirely different category. People DO take note of the source when it comes to news, and when it comes to major claims about politics and geopolitics, people DO, and rightly so, take the source into account.

So Reid’s argument is bullshit.

It is also rank hypocrisy, as Reid, EAD and Ugly will and do ignore anything from sources they think are controlled by the Zionist Cabal. Ugly and Reid use the Neo-Nazi term “Zionpedia” to dismiss anything from wikipedia, as just one example.

Stupidity and hypocrisy in one paragraph. Reid is certainly efficient!
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June 8, 2015 8:39pm
Manolo

Europe’s suicide: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jun/07/mediterranean-migrant-arrivals-italy-passes-50000

The number of migrants to have arrived in Italy by boat this year passed 50,000 at the weekend as over 5,800 people were rescued in the Mediterranean.

A total of 3,480 people were rescued on Saturday from 15 separate boats that set off from Libya, and more rescues were ongoing on Sunday. The international effort involved the Italian authorities and naval ships from the UK, Ireland and Germany.
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June 8, 2015 8:40pm
Shawn Herles

A brilliant and funny video on how to debunk any and all paranoid conspiracy theories.

“People who toss around dumb conspiracy theories and rabble rouse with large gaps in their brain are impossible to be sane and sensible with. Conspiracy theories are silly and fun to joke around with but to take them serious is just insane. But insane people exist! Here’s how to debunk a lot of conspiracy theories.

You just ask them a simple question: does this conspiracy theory affect rich people? If it does, it ain’t real!”

http://sploid.gizmodo.com/video-a-funny-and-simple-way-to-debunk-stupid-conspira-1673022363
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June 8, 2015 8:43pm
UglyTruth

@ UglyLies

You’re the liar, Herles.

“Pervasive long running conspiracies are nothing new”

The claims are nothing new, but that is all they are.

Denying it doesn’t change the facts. The system is involved in wide scale fraud when it claims sovereignty as the basis for making law.

The sovereignty described by the state is not true sovereignty.
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June 8, 2015 8:46pm
Reid

A total of 3,480 people were rescued on Saturday from 15 separate boats that set off from Libya, and more rescues were ongoing on Sunday.

It’s very sad isn’t it Manolo that there wouldn’t have been anyone wanting to escape from Libya were it not for the NATO operation some years ago that destroyed the nation.

For no reason other than Gaddaffi wanting to sell his country’s own oil in the currency he wanted, rather than what the Rothschilds required.

https://www.google.co.nz/search?q=libya+before+and+after+destruction+images&num=100&espv=2&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=DFd1VaToNqPamAWT-YLYBg&ved=0CBwQsAQ&biw=1366&bih=705

Typical though. The aftermath of the problem is required to be handled by the taxpayers of the various countries. The elite never sully their delicate manicured hands with such filth as they create, you see. That’s just who they are.
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June 8, 2015 8:51pm
EAD

Here are some of the meme’s which the CMMM like to cultivate (see link for full list)

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-06-07/tales-bizarro-world

– A country known as the “Land of the Free” has one of the largest prison populations on the planet‎; another with “Order and Progress” written on its flag has 19 of the world’s 50 most dangerous cities
– World governments spend trillions on weapons every year when we already have the capacity to blow up the planet many times over. But they always come up short when it comes to cleaning water supplies, providing healthcare, upgrading infrastructure, restoring nature and feeding people
– Western leaders, once the biggest supporters of free markets, now spend trillions intervening in the economy.
– Countries with the most abundant natural resources often have the poorest people (See Reid’s entry on Gaddafi above)
– Keynesian economists tell us that in order to get richer we must save less and get deeper into debt

Here is great example of how the CMMM Mockingbird Media condition the American public:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TM8L7bdwVaA

“The absolute best controlled opposition is one that doesn’t know they are controlled.”
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June 8, 2015 9:02pm
Brigitte

“I don’t buy books published by Mills & Boon.”

Perhaps I would if it was Kyle Mills & David Boon. Then again, probably not.
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June 8, 2015 9:43pm
ngatimozart

Hang in there Griff on the AGW. You are doing a good job. It’s not your fault that the infidels can’t grasp the basics.

With regard to the cause of the Little Ice Age it may have had to do with a drop in ocean temperatures. Possibly there could have been a higher albedo effect which means that more solar radiation is reflected back into space. The top layer of the oceans, just below the surface, work as a heat sink so during the day the energy from solar radiation is stored as heat near the surface. Also some radiation is reflected by the surface which heats the air causing it to rise. However if a reasonable amount of solar radiation is prevented from reaching the surface then the oceans and the land cool. A 1°C drop in mean sea surface temperature would be quite significant possibly ice age material. Maybe the mean sea surface temperatures for the Little Ice Age dropped by around 0.5°C – just enough to make it reasonably cold.
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June 9, 2015 12:54am

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