General Debate 6 June 2015

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Pete George

The Nation is promoting:

…on The Nation, an investigation into allegations of more dirty politics by blogger Cameron Slater. A former confidant of Slater’s has supplied The Nation with documents, texts and bank statements raising serious questions about his online activities and plans to hit back against some of those who attacked him last year.

So what was “the mission” that these two men embarked on? Lisa Owen has an exclusive report.

This relates to the Ben Rachinger accusations that Slater paid him to hack The Standard (also implicating DPF).

The Standard is promoting this item too – with a bit of their own dirt thrown in? Standard goes dirty on dirty politics?
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June 6, 2015 8:03am
Swifty

I hope I don’t perturb anyone by reposting a note from yesterday, again, to seek your views. Many thanks.

I have had an interesting experience today about 1pm that I’d like to share and seek your respective views on.

My local barber is on Stoddard Rd, Mt Roskill. It is owned by a great young guy, a Fijian-Indian, who gives a great service at a good price. He lives locally and his kids are friendly with mine. Works his arse off, until recently 6.5 days a week. Recently down to six, as he’s got another guy in.

Just as I was walking over to sit in the chair a Somali guy who had been hovering around the shop entrance as I was waiting cruises up to the ‘bench’ grabs a hand-held trimmer and starts touching up his designer stubble.

The owner goes off. “Don’t touch my stuff without asking” and “that cost me $270, if you dropped it I know you would say sorry, but you wouldn’t pay me for it. I know you.”…….etc etc

The Somali was all apologetic and eventually slunk out the door.

The owner was then fuming the rest of my trim and he really vented. “That’s happened a few times Swifty” he said, “always Somalis”. “No respect for other people’s gear”. “None of them work, they’ve been here for years, they’re all on benefits, spend their day smoking and drinking coffee at the coffee shop”. Some of this I know to be true as I see it myself daily on my walks.

Now, I ask you all. With respect to recent claims for raising our refugee levels, am I wrong to suggest that we maybe shouldn’t?

From my personal experience, if we’re talking refugees from the Pacific, Europe, most of Asia the Americas etc then no problem, but where currently not many refugees are originating from.

But is NZ really better off from taking refugees in larger numbers from war-torn North Africa and the Middle-East; tribal societies, largely uneducated and, I’ll say it, who for centuries have been ruled by theocracies, where women are distinctly second-class, primitive superstitions prevail, life is cheap, clerics govern, democracy was we know it has never been present, learning about science, literature etc is largely absent etc etc.

I know that people are saying accepting more refugees is the right thing to do – but where is the conversation about from where we should allow them to come from? What values do they hold etc? How many is too many? What will it mean for NZ in 30, 50, 100 years? Are these things being considered by our mandarins?

Your thoughts are welcome.
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June 6, 2015 8:08am
Manolo

Help, I need somebody…: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/11653211/Greece-IMF-payment-live.html

• Alexis Tsipras tells the Greek parliament: Time is running out for everyone but a deal can be done
• Greek PM and Vladimir Putin chatted on the phone “in a friendly atmosphere”
• Energy minister tells the Telegraph: We will not give up a pound of flesh
• RBS puts probability of Grexit at 20pc and William Hill puts odds of Grexit at 1/3
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June 6, 2015 8:09am
Inandout

Pete George: If the Standard has inside knowledge then expect another Hagar type expose.
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June 6, 2015 8:18am
Manolo

NZ does not need any more refugees, and no, no Muslims.
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June 6, 2015 8:18am
Pete George

Two weeks after a recommendation by Alex Renton’s neurologist that cannabis oil be tried to help his seizures and try and get him out of a coma the Wellington DHB has finally applied to the Minister of Health for approval to try CBD.

Seven Sharp had an item on this last night: Teen in coma for 57 days needs legal access to cannabis oil

Transcript here.

CBD may or may not help Alex (one indication was there’s a 30% chance of success) but no drugs or treatment have helped him so far.

CBD is extracted from low-THC strains of cannabis so is not intoxicating
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June 6, 2015 8:19am
waikatogirl

National Fieldays this week at Mystery Creek near Hamilton. Going to be wet from the looks.
Good luck to all the hardworking exhibitors. It is a busy and tiring week and the wet weather won’t help.

Time The National Fieldays empire thought about the farmers, other attendees and the exhibitors who pay through the nose to be there and invest in transport up and down that hill to Mystery Creek Road, the uphill climb after all day is a bit of a shit!
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June 6, 2015 8:22am
Inandout

Swifty: You will notice these Somalis don’t tend to inhabit Remuera, Parnell or Takapuna. So long as they remain in Roskillistan then you will see no change, but had that incident occurred in say the Parnell shopping area, the Police would quickly sweep the area of undesirables.
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June 6, 2015 8:24am
Pete George

Inandout – it appears that Prentice has been involved in the investigation, he couldn’t resist promoting it but says he is sworn to confidentiality.
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June 6, 2015 8:25am
Inandout

waikatogirl: Most cockies are immune to a bit of wet weather, but with the milk prices at a new low, you won’t see those cheque books opening so often.
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June 6, 2015 8:28am
duggledog

Swifty – interesting story.

The New Zealand citizens who have the most to fear from immigration are:

The Maoris – or rather, the ordinary Maoris. Not the elite.

If they thought the European migration was overwhelming, well boy oh boy.

Indians (some of the most racially intolerant people on earth) and Chinese are already shutting them out of the bog standard route to prosperity, the house rental. Ask any Indian or Chinese landlord who their least preferred tenants are if they are honest and don’t suspect you of working for the Government or the media, they will tell you. Same with jobs unfortunately.

One guy told me he put Maori tenants below PIs – and – Somalis!
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June 6, 2015 8:28am
kowtow

swifty

We should take only refugees who are likely to fit in and get on. So if they were Lebs , we’d take Christians as the Muslims have been shown to be work shy benefit bludgers, refuse to assimilate and actually hate western society. Why would any western country accept such dross?
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June 6, 2015 8:32am
Pete George

Who’s going to spend $150 for Whale Oil Decade of Dirt tickets?

Despite the vague hints of who might be attending I’d be surprised if many MPs will want to be associated with more Whale dirt dishing.

Maurice Williamson is supposed to be MC but he hasn’t got much to lose (presuming he’s not interested in a mayoralty bid).

If John Banks is interested in another crack at mayoralty why would he be involved?

Judith Collins seems to be trying to climb back up the political ladder, what’s more important to her, her friendship with Slater or her political ambitions?
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June 6, 2015 8:32am
waikatogirl

Inandout
waikatogirl: Most cockies are immune to a bit of wet weather, but with the milk prices at a new low, you won’t see those cheque books opening so often.

***
The weather is the least of the cockies worries. As an exhibitor the payout is a concern to all of those who support the rural sector and we are there to support farming wherever possible.

Fieldays Empire were charging $25 entry a head last year, but as usual they will report record numbers attending.
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June 6, 2015 8:35am
brett68

@duggledog

Doesn’t surprise me , chances of copping a bad tenant when you rent to Maori seems to be so much higher.

Why take the chance. when there are so many other options.

Tough for all the law abiding, friendly Maori out there though, but a land lord has to protect his assets.
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June 6, 2015 8:37am
Pete George

While I can’t see it on Twitter this has been posted at The Standard:

“@lprent: @lprent On my 56th birthday. I go on camera for the first time in the seven years of running The Standards systems. Clean up NZ politics …”

Prentice could start with cleaning up The Standard but that’s unlikely, he’s one of the dirtiest players there.
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June 6, 2015 8:37am
Inandout

Pete George: Then The Nation will actually add to Slater’s ‘Decade of Dirt’ ticket sales, because the attendees will want to hear Cam’s side of the story.
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June 6, 2015 8:41am
Inandout

brett68: It doesn’t stop at not renting to Maoris, also in the area of hiring workers where handling money is involved. You really can’t blame landlords or employers if they have been burnt so many times.
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June 6, 2015 8:44am
brett68

@Pete George

I’d say Greg Prestland would be the dirtiest player, he seems to revel in the dirt.

All I can say is thank fuck, Cunnlife lost, otherwise we’d had have Prestland in the background as the new H2, advising Cunnliffe.

The silent power behind the throne, terrifying.
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June 6, 2015 8:44am
duggledog

Brett68

I would recommend asking a letting agent or property manager. Off the record they all have many, many horror stories with a single common denominator: and I think it’s the grievance mentality to ‘rip off whitey’ or ‘whitey stole our land’ manifesting itself in the younger generation, up to about age thirty five we’re seeing come through now.

I put it all at the feet of such wonderful leaders as Willie Jackson, Hone Harawira, etc. who have encouraged and fostered much poisonous resentment.

I also put it at the feet of such wonderful institutions as Maori TV. You know, if John Ansell really wanted to get some traction, all he has to do is learn Te Reo and sit back and watch a bit of MTS. I think the average New Zealander would be horrified at some of the views that are regularly given air time and espoused there.
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June 6, 2015 8:55am
wiseowl

Swifty.
We voters are not allowed to discuss immigration.It doesn’t exist .No-one is flooding in to Auckland or buying our land and houses.Can’t see a thing.
Why discuss where people come from or their religion.We are all such welcoming people in this country and want to open our arms to anyone and everyone.
There is no demand problem with housing , only supply.

Stuff all the politicians who belong to some secret immigration society that wants to screw this country.
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June 6, 2015 8:57am
Viking2

Manolo (16,047 comments) says:
June 6th, 2015 at 8:09 am

Help, I need somebody…: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/11653211/Greece-IMF-payment-live.html

• Alexis Tsipras tells the Greek parliament: Time is running out for everyone but a deal can be done
• Greek PM and Vladimir Putin chatted on the phone “in a friendly atmosphere”
• Energy minister tells the Telegraph: We will not give up a pound of flesh
• RBS puts probability of Grexit at 20pc and William Hill puts odds of Grexit at 1/3
================================
No one should be surprised that the Russians and the Greeks are talking. Their respective Orthodox churches are close with the Russians once owning the Church of the Holy Sepulcure. Both have always been opposed by various Islamic factions.

Brothers in Arms we might say.
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June 6, 2015 8:57am
Paulus Gnome

Swifty – the answer is multiculturalism.

If you can tell me what multiculturalism is then I am impressed. I have the feeling that it is a word to ostracise those who are fed up with the influx of usually hopeless detritus that we have as refugees and to a large extent, those on working student visas. Sort of like intolerant when you have a view that is not that of the luvvie touchy feely brigade

It has got to be something more than another ethnic food based on something I would not contemplate eating at any other time, it has got to be better than some costume that looks like an explosion in Spotlight and it really has got to be better than mainstream New Zealand moving up a bit more to let another bleeding heart case story live off our money (the gummermint only has your money in the form of tax)

I get no ‘buzz’ from knowing Auckland is the most culturally diverse city in the world with more than 200 different ethnicities, I get a sense of a refugee based populace wanting a free ride (apparently 75% of all the refugees taken in by New Zealand since dot, have not worked; that is, they and their families are beneficiaries’)

We all want better in life and we know there are winners and losers, diluting the winning pool by browning down really is not the answer.

Multiculturalism did not work for Britain, it will not work here as the vast (shrinking) populace of New Zealand identify with this heritage. Multiculturalism has exceeded a reasonable expansion, continued multiculturalism will be the downfall of the life style we enjoy in New Zealand; maybe not in my lifetime but it is approaching at an exponential rate.

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2014/12/hard-knock-life-british-multiculturalism
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June 6, 2015 9:01am
brett68

@duggledog

I agree, but I also think a lot of the issues that arise are due to the open door to all whanau culture Maori have.

‘Uncles” and “Aunties” can turn up at any time and stay for months causing all sorts of problems.
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June 6, 2015 9:04am
Viking2

duggledog (1,873 comments) says:
June 6th, 2015 at 8:55 am

Brett68

I would recommend asking a letting agent or property manager. Off the record they all have many, many horror stories with a single common denominator: and I think it’s the grievance mentality to ‘rip off whitey’ or ‘whitey stole our land’ manifesting itself in the younger generation, up to about age thirty five we’re seeing come through now.
==============================
Being a landlord for 20 years with a number of houses I can say that both Maori and Pakeha have their shit bags. Some Pakeha are worse than many Maori. I have some very good maori tenants and several who have been in my houses for some years. I have had some crap ones especially a year or two back when tenants were hard to find.
If our visionary govt’s. ( I know a contradiction in terms), hadn’t sent and average 30,000 people off shore every year since the late eighties and focused on growing our country we would all have had better tenants and been a shit load wealthier. At least that has changed for the moment.
Won’t hold my breath though.

As well as renters I have Maori ladies who work for me and have no complaint about the ones I have. Again it comes down to chosing the right people and managing them.

Had some shit white ones as well.
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June 6, 2015 9:06am
Inandout

waikatogirl: I was speaking with a car dealership salesman in a rural town, and he said it has been worryingly quiet. The fact is that those farmers who have borrowed from the banks at a calculated $5 at the gate for milk, are now faced with a serious shortfall in income for debt servicing.
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June 6, 2015 9:07am
Paulus Gnome

@duggledog

‘Doesn’t surprise me , chances of copping a bad tenant when you rent to Maori seems to be so much higher.’

I have tenants of Maori extraction, parents with three children (cat and rabbit); wonderful people.

The worst tenants I have had are PI’s and Fijian Indians; never again. Those who turn up in pajamas for viewing don’t even get in the door.

The answer is always be patient to get the right tenant
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June 6, 2015 9:07am
Harriet

If you didn’t know Alan bond has died.

http://www.news.com.au/finance/business/wa-businessman-alan-bond-has-died-after-heart-surgery-in-perth/story-fnda1bsz-1227384545874
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June 6, 2015 9:08am
Inandout

Viking2: We are talking about the law of averages here as regards Maori tenants. Also in the days I was dealing with debtors the overwhelming number were Maori.
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June 6, 2015 9:10am
kowtow

Multiculturalism ? Be very careful there, I have heard our over esteemed PM John Key declare on more than one occasion that we are a “multicultural society”.

If he could define “multiculturalism” beyond “Look at all the ethnic restaurants we have” , I’d be impressed.
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June 6, 2015 9:13am
EAD

I’m going to go out on a limb and state the truth instead of dancing around on eggshells because to be honest, I don’t really care if I’m called a name by some sanctimonious w*nker.

Auckland was a far better city when the population was 80% established European in origin and most of the growth was organic or internal migration.

It was easy to get around, there were no large ethnic enclaves, newcomers had to assimilate to a degree (i.e. you could speak with most anyone in our official language), house prices were somewhat relative to local income, we didn’t have to worry about “terrorism”, the benefits of different cultures (restaurants) were there but still subservient to the dominant culture which more or less everyone bought into.

What goes for Auckland goes for the rest of the country. I await the progressive shrieks of horror.
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June 6, 2015 9:14am
Pete George

“you could speak with most anyone in our official language’

New Zealand has three official languages.

The 2013 census lists about 190 languages used in New Zealand.
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June 6, 2015 9:17am
cas

While it’s sad Jerry Collins died, is his death that important that it leads all the news bulletins and TV 3 was going to do live crosses for more news last night. Their second news item was about Lecretia Scales and Justice Collin’s opinion. Far more importatnt I would think. And Radio NZ leading with Jerry again at 8am!
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June 6, 2015 9:17am
Harriet

“….These days it’s not just that the line between right and wrong has been made unclear, today Christians are being asked by our culture today to erase the lines and move the fences, and if that were not bad enough, we are being asked to join in the celebration cry by those who have thrown off the restraints religion had imposed upon them. It is not just that they ask we accept, but they now demand of us to celebrate it too.

In a recent article Paul Kengor discusses the battle for marriage and conservatism. What he says about conservatism can pretty much be said about Christianity as well. He writes:

Conservatism aims to conserve the time-tested values, ideas, and principles that have been sustained over time by previous generations and traditions…. These are values, ideas, and principles – usually with a Judeo-Christian basis – that have endured for good reason and for the best of society, citizens, country, culture, and order. That’s a brief summation that the late Russell Kirk, probably conservatism’s preeminent philosophical spokesman, would endorse.

Speaking more on homosexual marriage, he writes:

Gay marriage, merely by its total newness alone, fails that rudimentary definition. Gay marriage has never been done before. One would never expect a conservative to rush into something as utterly unprecedented – and that directly repudiates the laws of nature and nature’s God – as this completely novel concept called “gay marriage.” Same-sex marriage not only revolutionizes marriage but also human nature generally and family specifically, the latter of which conservatives have always understood as the fundamental building block of civilization.
One would expect a progressive to support redefining marriage, because for progressives, everything is always in a state of never-ending, always-evolving flux. Progressives have no trouble rendering unto themselves the ability to redefine human life itself. Redefining marriage is small potatoes. A progressive can wake up tomorrow and conjure up a new “right” over a grande skim latte at Starbucks. For secular progressives especially, there is no absolute, set standard for things like marriage or, really, even for right or wrong. They are relativists who don’t subscribe to established absolutes. Redefine marriage? Sure, says the progressive. Redefine family, parenthood, motherhood, fatherhood, womanhood, manhood, gender? Sure, says the progressive.
For conservatives, however, this is unthinkable. Indeed, a conservative cannot even “conserve” when it comes to gay marriage, because gay marriage is an untried idea unimaginable by any people until only very recent days.
To be sure, conservatives, especially those whose conservatism springs from religious underpinnings, should recognize and respect the inherent human dignity of all gay people – being fellow human beings made in the image of God – and should not mistreat them. But those conservatives cannot, in turn, blatantly violate (if not blaspheme) the teachings of their faith and their God on the sanctity of male-female matrimony.

He concludes:

I’ll wrap up with a key question that I get asked all the time by conservatives on this issue: Can one still be a conservative and support gay marriage? I’d have to say that if someone is conservative on 90 out of 100 issues, but gay marriage isn’t one of them, that person probably ought to still be regarded as a conservative – albeit with a really skewed misunderstanding of how gay marriage fits their conservative worldview. But while some conservatives will support gay marriage, gay marriage is flatly not a conservative position…..”

http://billmuehlenberg.com/2015/06/05/the-desperate-need-to-proclaim-truth-and-affirm-the-biblical-worldview/
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June 6, 2015 9:20am
EAD

@ PG,

Your liberal nitpicking knows no bounds. This style of debate belongs to mikemild/Stephie.

Yes, sign language and Maori might be “official” languages but if you intend to give my words their literal interpretation rather than take them in context, more fool you and I think the NZ education system has been bad for a lot longer than I thought!
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June 6, 2015 9:21am
duggledog

V2 and Paulus:

My question is, where are your rentals. I will bet they are not in W(h)anganui, or Whangarei, or Rotorua, or Whakatane, or Kaikohe or Kaitaia

Auckland is a different case entirely now; the pressure being so great any tenant has got to be squeaky clean.

Cas – behold the country you live in. Kind of dovetails nicely with everything we debate, from insane local councils to immigration from 3rd world countries to treaty settlement largesse –

New Zealanders have only one concern: the game of rugby. Little else.
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June 6, 2015 9:21am
Hugh Pavletich

THE EPA FRACKING MIRICLE … EDITORIAL … WALL STREET JOURNAL

Posted at … http://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2015/06/asx-at-the-close-447/ … comments welcome …

The EPA Fracking Miracle – WSJ … google search title if blocked …

http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-epa-fracking-miracle-1433460321

So even the Environmental Protection Agency now concedes that fracking is safe, which won’t surprise anyone familiar with the reality of unconventional oil and natural gas drilling in the U.S. But if no less than the EPA is saying this, then the political opposition doesn’t have much of a case left.

“We did not find evidence that these mechanisms have led to widespread, systemic impacts on drinking water resources in the United States,” the EPA observes in a 1,399-page report and multiple appendices. By mechanisms, the researchers mean the practice of injecting water and chemicals into shale at high pressure to extract oil or natural gas. … read more via hyperlink above …

The Shale Boom Shifts Into Higher Gear – WSJ … google search title if blocked …

http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-shale-boom-shifts-into-higher-gear-1433104129

Have the American entrepreneurs who developed horizontal drilling and hydraulic fracturing—“fracking”—done their jobs too well? The increase in domestic crude oil production of 3.6 million barrels a day in less than four years, reversing almost four decades of decline, has created a spectacular macroeconomic anomaly—a crash in oil prices without a recession to cause it. … read more via hyperlink above …

US oil production hits 43-year high ahead of OPEC – Yahoo Finance … with VIDEO …

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/us-oil-production-hits-43-181722280.html

U.S. oil production surged to a 43-year high, despite a price war that resulted in a more than 50 percent reduction in active U.S. oil wells. … read and view more via hyperlink above …

THANK YOU GEORGE P MITCHELL … CREATOR OF THE FRACKING INDUSTRY …

A Tribute to George P. Mitchell – YouTube

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pe9qAQZ1pp8

Hugh Pavletich
Co-author Annual Demographia International Housing Affordability Survey
http://www.performanceurbanplanning.org/ & http://info.scoop.co.nz/Hugh_Pavletich
Christchurch
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June 6, 2015 9:29am
Pete George

EAD – it’s not nitpicking for deaf people. There’s over 20,000 people who use sign language. Should deaf people be not allowed into new Zealand?

“subservient to the dominant culture which more or less everyone bought into”

I haven’t seen anyone define a “dominant culture”. Why should anyone be subservient to such a thing if it existed?

It would be a very boring country if everyone lived identical cultural lives.
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June 6, 2015 9:29am
duggledog

waikatogirl

I reckon some cockies are going to go to the wall. I feel bloody sorry for them, I’m no stranger to pulling tits

Farming is:

Hard work, dawn till dusk, 7 days a week unless you are lucky enough to inherit
and
Risk.
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June 6, 2015 9:31am
Pongo

Latest attempt by the Herald to bore their readers to death or to elsewhere is 4 of their senior journalists having a crack at the Suadi sheep deal, it’s an odd deal but you get the motivation and the reasons. It won’t however resonate with their readers who they seem to have such little regard for, one can be left with the impression that the reason for decline of traditional media is that they exist in some weird parralel world/bubble and rather than notice that the bulk of their readership is slightly right and cater to it they can rest on the excuse that it’s a global issue with the decline and nothing to do with the lefty rubbish they churn out each day.
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June 6, 2015 9:31am
Dennis Horne

Auckland is becoming an immigrant shithole like Paris and London. My poor children. I weep for them. There’s nothing for them here to come back to.
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June 6, 2015 9:31am
Inandout

cas: How true about the publicity re Collins, as everyday we hear about tragic vehicle crashes, like the wee 5 year old boy who died in Horowhenua as a result of injuries. But I guess we live in the Age of Celebrity.
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June 6, 2015 9:32am
Inandout

duggledog: It is the suicides that are even more of a worry, as farmers tend to be reluctant to share their problems with outsiders.
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June 6, 2015 9:34am
Jack5

Someone thinks the NZ banks (the subsidiaries of the Australian banks) are feeling the squeeze from the dive in dairy prices. This just after a few months since banksters were talking about NZ having a rock star economy. Asset securities covering over-enthusiastic loans to dairy farms no longer look so secure

If the Government has to come to the NZ banks’ rescue the Government must take equity stakes in return for help, rather than just give big loans or security. That’s the lesson from the finance companies’ bail-out and from the overseas bail-out of financial institutions. Let the citizens get some benefit from the bounce back. Let NZ own a stake in its own big banks.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11460713
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June 6, 2015 9:39am
Inandout

Dennis Horne: And to think Islanders used to be the target; give me them any day as they generally work hard, want their children to be educated, and aren’t responsible for endless holdups at airports.
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June 6, 2015 9:39am
Nukuleka

I can’t help but ponder the awfulness of the nature of Jerry Collins and his partner’s deaths in a horrific car accident, and contrast that with the peaceful passing of a terminally ill person receiving palliative care in a hospice, surrounded by caring nursing staff, friends and family.

Sadly, there is often little ‘dignity’ in death. The truth needs to be told. Lecretia Seales’ passing was a tragedy for her and her family and friends for sure. But, unlike that of Jerry Collins, his partner and millions of others who die in tragic circumstances, it was not undignified.
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June 6, 2015 9:39am
Dennis Horne

Homosexual marriage is here to stay
Oh, isn’t it so wonderful and gay
Marriage can be anything you like
Get dressed up and wed a dyke
Strap on a cock so anyone can play.
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June 6, 2015 9:41am
Hugh Pavletich

Greek Banks On Verge Of Total Collapse: Bank Run Surges “Massively” As Depositors Yank €700 Million Today Alone | Zero Hedge

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-06-05/greek-banks-verge-total-collapse-bank-run-surges-massively-depositors-yank-%E2%82%AC700-mill

While the Greek government believes it may have won the battle, if not the war with Europe, the reality is that every additional day in which Athens does not have a funding backstop, be it the ECB (or the BRIC bank), is a day which brings the local banking system to total collapse. … read more via hyperlink above
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June 6, 2015 9:42am
Jack5

Re Dennis Horne, at 9.31, about Auckland becoming an “immigrant shithole like Paris and London.”

Yep, becomes a place to visit rather than a place to live in.

Still Dennis, don’t you remember the chances to vote and debate on the Second Great Genetic Re-engineering of New Zealand? The politicians bent overbackwards to make the change open and democratic with full consultation at every stage didn’t they? The traitors!
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June 6, 2015 9:43am
Biscuit

Wow, a whole week without John Campbell EARNESTLY telling me what’s important…

You know, I think I just might survive…
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June 6, 2015 9:45am
Odakyu-sen

I’ll say one thing about the “Second Great Genetic Re-engineering of New Zealand”: at least it proves we don’t have a racist or nationalistic government.

(Can you imagine Japan doing this?)
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June 6, 2015 9:58am
Reid

Odakyu the reason they do it is because the NWO requires people with no sense of national identity and what better way to achieve that than by what we’ve been seeing in the Western world in the way of immigration.

With no debate.

Not one Western country, not even the left’s beloved Scandanavians, has ever seriously asked its citizenry what they want. In fact Sweden is one of the worst, look what’s happening in rape over there. Disgraceful. And the controlled media doesn’t confront it.

Observe.

This is not my imagination, so newsflash people, you can’t call it a “theory” can you.

Awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww.

You’re going to have to deal with reality aren’t you. How sad for you.

So go on.

Explain how come it’s happening to the extent and time it’s been happening across every single Western country, if there HASN’T been some central driving force behind it.

Go on.

Explain that, if you can.

I know you won’t, all you children will do is give me downtick to express your childish disapproval of someone raising an in your face reality that you can’t deny and you can’t explain under your present worldview, won’t you.
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June 6, 2015 10:04am
Odakyu-sen

I’ll say one thing about the “Second Great Genetic Re-engineering of New Zealand”: at least it proves we don’t have a racist or nationalistic government.

The delicious irony is that the Indians, Chinese and South Koreans tend to be highly racist and nationalistic.

For you ordinary non-iwi-affiliated urban Maori: be afraid. Be very afraid.
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June 6, 2015 10:08am
Reid

http://www.timesofisrael.com/in-rare-meet-israeli-saudi-officials-name-iran-as-common-foe/

I keep telling you, Israel and Saudi Arabia are secret allies. It’s so obvious.
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June 6, 2015 10:10am
Odakyu-sen

Reid, my boy.

I’m not complaining about the “Second Great Genetic Re-engineering of New Zealand”. Quite the contrary. One of the best things that ever happened to me and my family.

I love New Zealand and enjoy swimming in the great Asian mix that is Auckland.

What is the NWO? (New World Order?) (Let’s go an Google it. )….

… Look what I found: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_World_Order_%28conspiracy_theory%29

Reid, have you been indulging in conspiracy theories again?! Good God man, it’s only 10:09 a.m. on Saturday morning and you’ve got the whole weekend ahead of you. I suggest you go and do something constructive.
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June 6, 2015 10:14am
Hugh Pavletich

WILL HEADS ROLL IN CHRISTCHURCH’S BELEAGUERED PLANNING DEPARTMENT … JOHN McCRONE … THE PRESS

WILL HEADS ROLL IN CHRISTCHURCH (COUNCILS) PLANNING DEPARTMENT ? … JOHN McCRONE … THE PRESS

http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/business/the-rebuild/68972257/will-heads-roll-in-christchurchs-beleaguered-planning-department

For some, it is black and white. Christchurch City Council’s planning department has been doing a useless job for years. And it is about to get what’s coming.

It failed early on after the earthquakes because Earthquake Recovery Minister Gerry Brownlee had to take over the council’s draft central city plan and create his own recovery blueprint. … read more via hyperlink above …

Council’s need to widen thinking on housing and growth economics (says John Key) … National Business Review … BEHIND SUBSCRIPTION WALL (UNFORTUNATELY) …

http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/councils-need-widen-thinking-housing-and-growth-economics-sl-p-173596?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=NBR%2520Heads%2520Up

PAVLETICH COMMENT ON THREAD …

Please read this Fairfax article reporting on what Dep PM & Finance Minister Bill English had to say in Christchurch the day after the Budget …

The Government’s estimated contribution to the Christchurch rebuild jumps $1.1b in a year | Stuff.co.nz

http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/business/68786324/the-governments-estimated-contribution-to-the-christchurch-rebuild-jumps-11b-in-a-year

The unaffordable housing problem at its core is a Councils costs out of control problem. Smaller Waimak and Selwyn illustrated their responsiveness following the earthquake events … while not surprisingly, the seriously dysfunctional and bureaucratically bloated Christchurch Council was not responsive.

Council structures (smaller the better), culture and systems are far more important factors than “the Law.” You could post the 10 Commandments on the wall of a whorehouse, but it doesn’t mean they are all going to start behaving themselves.

Let’s hope the Productivity Commissions draft “Land Supply” report due out shortly, assists in progressing this hugely important issue.

It is well past time the Key Government got some “grunt” in to those Housing Accords … and lightened up on the excuses for poor performance. The monthly Building Consent numbers are a disgrace Mr Key.

… AND …

To illustrate just what a cavalier and irresponsible attitude Local Government has to “the Law” … read this and weep …

Independent Panel Slams Christchurch Council Planners | Scoop News

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO1503/S00051/independent-panel-slams-chr…

At the very least, the Christchurch Councils Chief Executive Dr Karleen Edwards, should hve been asked why the Planning Policy people of her Council were not fired for this.

Surely it is clear from the Independent Panels determination that the Council does not currently have the internal competencies to draft a soundly researched and workable Plan. To say nothing of the costs involved with all this nonsense … as we are looking down the barrel of around 8.5% Rates increases per annum over the next four years for Heaven’s sake.

And this problem is endemic throughout the country.

What planet are these people on ?

Hugh Pavletich
Co-author Annual Demographia International Housing Affordability Survey
http://www.performanceurbanplanning.org/ & http://info.scoop.co.nz/Hugh_Pavletich & http://info.scoop.co.nz/Performance_Urban_Planning & http://info.scoop.co.nz/Demographia
Christchurch
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June 6, 2015 10:17am
mikenmild

Odakyu-sen
Reid’s on-line life appears to be pretty much 100% conspiracist fantasies.
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June 6, 2015 10:18am
Dennis Horne

@Odakyu-sen. Reid says: Absinthe makes the fart go “Honda”.
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June 6, 2015 10:20am
Reid

I told you, it’s reality. It’s not a theory. What I described IS the reality across the Western world. So explain it. Go on. And my worldview does, but none of yours do.

Q.E.D.

And nothing you say can change that reality.

So whose worldview is more likely to be accurate?

Not rocket science, is it.

But of course all you can do is flock around each other and bleat and baa like particularly stupid sheep about how it’s not that way at all, it can’t be, because all we sheep think the same way about it and we can’t all be wrong, can we.

Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.
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June 6, 2015 10:27am
Manolo

For a moment I thought the delicate Lynn Prentice could be the NZ version of f Bruce Jenner.
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June 6, 2015 10:40am
Dennis Horne

Seems to me, Reid, it’s more populist politicians indulging voters’ greed and stupidity than some grand plan.

Once voters discovered they could give themselves a good living beyond their means the die for democracy was cast.

Mr Farrar stated politicians don’t need to be over-bright. Probably right. Anyone with any brains would blow them out confronted with the problems this country faces.

Not of course that it’s the only one.
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June 6, 2015 10:42am
wiseowl

M&m
Answer Reids question .I am interested in your explanation.
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June 6, 2015 10:56am
Reid

http://www.salon.com/2015/06/03/we_are_the_propagandists_the_real_story_about_how_the_new_york_times_and_the_white_house_has_turned_truth_in_the_ukraine_on_its_head/
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June 6, 2015 11:01am
mikenmild

What question was that?
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June 6, 2015 11:02am
Manolo

The bias of the US MSM? http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/06/05/bias-alert-ny-times-under-fire-for-scoop-on-rubio-traffic-citations/

The New York Times was being accused of a hit-and-run Friday after swerving at Sen. Marco Rubio with a detailed exposé of sorts — on his family’s traffic violations.
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June 6, 2015 11:05am
Keeping Stock

TVNZ’s coverage of Jerry Collins’ death last night made my blood boil. The bloke was still warm, yet TVNZ had to dredge up stuff from his past. Clearly Wendy Petrie and Chris Chang have lived blameless lives, and have no skeletons in their closets to be casting stones so quickly.

It was gutter journalism, plain and simple. Poor show TVNZ.
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June 6, 2015 11:09am
Manolo

@KS: These hacks are vultures, scavengers of the worst kind.
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June 6, 2015 11:12am
Pete George

Strong but I don’t think compelling evidence that Slater solicited a hack of the Standard. Nothing much new that wasn’t already out on the Internet but MSM puts more of a spotlight on it.

And Slater claims he didn’t do anything illegal. The police are investigating and it might be a while before we get their opinion on that.

The Nation on Rachinger and Slater versus The Standard
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June 6, 2015 11:20am
G152

The Nation:
Three young left wing fat cats wanting everything on a plate.
None of them were factory or farm workers.
All of them lined up for well paid jobs and moaning that they have interest free student loans.
And house are just so dear IN AUCKLAND… Move. Go to Woodville or Nelson or Wingate.
Buy and work there.
I had interest rates of nearly 25% when I bought.
It was what you had to do then.

And I reckon Whale Oil has found its ‘hacker’.
Nothing like pretending to be a friend
I wonder why the Nation wasn’t as keen on finding him when Hagers book came out ?
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June 6, 2015 11:20am
Reid

https://youtu.be/WLr8ZvgURg0
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June 6, 2015 11:34am
Tarquin North

I notice over on the standard everyone is going on about The Nation and dirty politics being eposed. The hilarious part is these are the same people who were boycotting TV3 over the demise of Campbell Live barely a week ago. Hypocrisy isn’t just alive and well in lefty land, it’s breeding at an exponential rate.
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June 6, 2015 11:36am
Reid

So Pete did you connect the dot as to why The Nation decided to pursue that story at this particular moment?

Why do you think they might have done that just now in particular, when the details have been around since December last year?

Prediction:

Pete will miss the whole point of my question altogether and explain to me how it was all to do schedules and reporting resource availability.
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June 6, 2015 11:43am
Hugh Pavletich

Christchurch Carter Group launches $500m industrial park | Stuff.co.nz

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/69109342/carter-group-launches-500m-industrial-park

Former Christchurch City councillor Tim Carter is the launch person for a Rolleston industrial park that will be worth $500 million when finished.

Carter is the son of NBR Rich lister Philip Carter. Their South Island Industrial Port, branded “IPORT”, in Rolleston, is the first significant industrial development by the group for some time.

The logistics park located on 122 hectares of industrial-zoned land was bought from farmers, and already 27ha has been sold to Lyttelton Port of Christchurch which will work closely with Carter Group given they have adjoining sites. … read more via hyperlink above …
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June 6, 2015 11:55am
Fletch

Not sure if anyone remembers the story from last week about the Muslim woman on the plane with the can of Coke who says she was discriminated against? She posted her story on her Facebook where it caused worldwide outrage. One News picked up the story on their site.

http://tvnz.co.nz/world-news/united-airlines-in-damage-control-after-muslim-woman-refused-diet-coke-over-weapon-fears-6327588

Anyway, a first-hand account has surfaced on the Flyer Talk forum from a passenger who says he was sitting right behind the woman in question.

I was actually on this flight on Friday evening from ORD to DCA. I have been a reader of this forum for a long time but seeing this all over the news made me sign up so I could tell you what really happened here and hopefully stop this liar in her tracks. I was sitting close enough to her to hear everything that was said. The flight attendant came up to the lady (I believe she even took her order first in the entire cabin as she was seated in the bulkhead 7d) and took her order. She ordered a coke zero and a hot green tea with a Splenda. The flight attendant handed her a full diet coke with a cup on top and then told her that the green tea would take a few minutes and she would get it to her ASAP. The lady said very rudely and condescending to the FA that she ordered a coke zero and basically pushed the soda back to the flight attendant. The FA said she was sorry and attempted to find a coke zero for her (which she did not have many of) and told her that she could only give her a portion of the can not the full can. This is when the lady in question started to freak out and told the FA “What do you think I will use this as a weapon?! Why can’t I have the whole can? I think you are discriminating against me. I need your name….” The lady just kept yelling to her “I need your name… I am being discriminated against.” This is when a few passengers told her to calm down and one guy told her to “shut her mouth and she is being ridiculous over a can of coke”. No one ever said anything anti-Muslim to her at all. She was the one who started screaming discrimination when she did not get what she wanted. The FA asked her numerous times if she would like anything else when the lady just basically pushed her away with a hand in her face. The lady then got onto her phone with her credit card and paid for the internet so she could start spinning this story on social media and she was never in tears. This person is a liar plain and simple and is just pulling the discrimination card.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/united-airlines-mileageplus/1683824-diet-coke-weapon-15.html#post24902619

He also claims he has his flight itinerary to prove he was on the flight and has passed on the info to the media. Of course, it’s not likely the media will report it, as it messes with their narrative.

I did reach out to the media and forwarded my itin onto them to prove that I was on the actual flight. I wish this lady would stop getting media attention for lying about what happened on the flight. Hopefully someone else will come out and tell the truth as well.

So, there you are. One does wish the media would do a little investigation before reporting on these stories. All it takes is for a Muslim to complain on social media about discrimination or Islamophobia, for people to pick it up and run with and for the media to jump onboard.
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June 6, 2015 12:06pm
Reid

Great comment on Bruce Jenner.

Surely you knew it had to happen; that is was right around the corner. You must have sensed that this was the whole point behind it. Yes, as the subject of the article says; “I am the new normal.”

Let us look at ‘some of’ the logical, next steps in this politically correct, batshit crazy, march off the cliffs of sanity into wherever that leads’, god help us….

http://www.zippittydodah.com/2015/06/the-politically-correct-batshit-crazy.html

Did you notice how every single media round the Western world couldn’t apparently help but be transfixed by this enormously fascinating subject? How every media organ in the country covered it multiple times since when it first arose a month or two ago to now, the opening of the chrysalis? (Barf)

How both left and right organs all covered it? Paul Henry, Hosking, TV1, TV3, The Herald, Stuff, etc etc etc?

Notice that?

The evil ones own both Reuters and AP. This is the way they coordinate such global propaganda as that story. For it is propaganda. Over the last few decades we’ve seen haven’t we reporters turn into repeaters. Haven’t we. That’s the second way they get people to comply with their dictat – the individual organs don’t publish it because the evil ones have planted a minion in every organ. No, duh. They do it because the commercial environment has been rigged so the easiest thing for them to do, is to simply pass on verbatim whatever the “authoritative” and “reliable” Reuters or AP says.

And that’s how they launch and coordinate social engineering memes like the Jenner bullshit we’ve just seen. And the sheeple just assimilate it straight into their subconscious without even knowing they’ve just been played like a violin. Again.

And this happens all the time, multiple times a week, large and small. Ferguson Riots, 911, you name it. Massage, manipulate.
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June 6, 2015 12:08pm
Fletch

Iran’s nuclear stockpile has increased 20 percent, and the U.S still wants to do a deal. Obama is nuts! This, from the New York Times –

With only one month left before a deadline to complete a nuclear deal with Iran, international inspectors have reported that Tehran’s stockpile of nuclear fuel increased about 20 percent over the last 18 months of negotiations, partially undercutting the Obama administration’s contention that the Iranian program had been “frozen” during that period. But Western officials and experts cannot quite figure out why. One possibility is that Iran has run into technical problems that have kept it from converting some of its enriched uranium into fuel rods for reactors, which would make the material essentially unusable for weapons. Another is that it is increasing its stockpile to give it an edge if the negotiations fail. The extent to which Iran’s stockpile has increased was documented in a report issued Friday by the International Atomic Energy Agency…The overall increase in Iran’s stockpile poses a major diplomatic and political challenge for President Obama and Secretary of State John Kerry, who flew back to the United States from Geneva on Monday for treatment of a broken leg he suffered in a bicycling accident, as they enter a 30-day push to try to complete an agreement by the end of June. In essence, the administration will have to convince Congress and America’s allies that Iran will shrink its stockpile by 96 percent in a matter of months after a deal is signed, even while it continues to produce new material and has demonstrated little success in reducing its current stockpile.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/02/world/middleeast/irans-nuclear-stockpile-grows-complicating-negotiations.html?_r=0
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June 6, 2015 12:17pm
dog_eat_dog

G152: Your interest rates were high, but what you paid as a multiple of your income was much much less compared to today. It’s not really comparing apples with apples.
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June 6, 2015 12:17pm
Fletch

By the way, the Russians and now the Iranian news media are claiming that John Kerry’s ‘bicycle crash’ in which he broke his leg, was actually an assassination attempt by ISIS.

http://www.albawaba.com/news/iranian-media-claim-kerry-bike-crash-was-cover-daesh-assassination-attempt-703000

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2015/06/04/theres-a-wild-rumor-about-john-kerrys-bike-accident/
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June 6, 2015 12:21pm
Keeping Stock

@ Pete George – has TV3 prejudiced the police investigation and any possible prosecution by running today’s story? The allegation have been out therefor around six weeks, and no one in the media has gone near them. The personat the centre of the allegations last year claimed on social media to be Rawshark, and that in itself should be ringing alarm bells.
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June 6, 2015 12:35pm
Keeping Stock

@ Manolo – I am strongly considering a complaint to TVNZ and the Broadcasting Standards Authority, not that it is likely to achieve anything. This was simply gutter journalism, and was incredibly disrespectful to Collins’ family and friends.

I was always taught not to speak ill of the dead, but that is especially relevant when the reporting takes place only a couple of hours after the person died.
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June 6, 2015 12:40pm
Pete George

@Reid

So Pete did you connect the dot as to why The Nation decided to pursue that story at this particular moment?

Why do you think they might have done that just now in particular, when the details have been around since December last year?

That’s not accurate. Some if the details dribbled out in February but most didn’t start to come out until late April (actually from April 27).

A number of journalists have been looking in to it, and because of the avalanche of mish mash it would have taken time to work through it all.

While The Nation didn’t choose to pursue the story ‘at this moment’ I don’t know why they went to air with it today. Do you Reid? or are you making more assumptions?

KS – yes, I wondered how it might affect the police investigation, although there was little new in what they publicised, most of what they covered is already out online.

Credibility of the informant is something that needs to be taken into account – but that also applies to Slater and his denial.
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June 6, 2015 1:10pm
publicwatchdog

Well Kiwibloggers, if you’re in Auckland on Wednesday 10 June 2015, you have a couple of options, if you’re politically interested?

You can spend $150 to go to this ‘Whale Oil’ event?

$150 per ticket for ‘Whale Oil’s – Decade of Dirt’?
http://m.ticketmaster.co.nz/Whale-Oils-Decade-of-Dirt-tickets/artist/2129736

Or – you can come along to the Public Meeting for those concerned about Auckland Council rate$ increases?

WHEN: Wednesday 10 June 2015

TIME: 7.30 – 10pm

WHERE: Mt Eden War Memorial Hall
487 Dominion Rd, Balmoral

I predict that the latter event will attract far more concerned citizens – for a variety of reasons…?

Penny Bright

http://www.pennybright4mayor.org.nz
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June 6, 2015 1:11pm
nasska

At $1500 a ticket Whale’s event would be a sellout if the only alternative in town is listening to Penny & her socialist mates waffling.
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June 6, 2015 1:20pm
flipper

Pete George has a really unhealthy fascination with ultra-LEFT wing Hager/Prentis/Standard/MSM CRAP. Prentis would be the last person on earth to sell me a used car. But he, PG, and the Standard always seem willing and ready to sell the latest Rawshark and Hager memes.

Just as it is time that Cam Slater dropped his anti Key/English/Joyce stance, so is it long past time for PG to drop his anti Slater stance.

Settle down and show some maturity PG
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June 6, 2015 1:24pm
minus

Pete George – So Pete did you connect the dot as to why The Nation decided to pursue that story at this particular moment?

One reason may relate to the content of Penny’s comment …
$150 per ticket for ‘Whale Oil’s – Decade of Dirt’? http://m.ticketmaster.co.nz/Whale-Oils-Decade-of-Dirt-tickets/artist/2129736
Wednesday, June 10, from 6.30 pm
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June 6, 2015 1:26pm
stigie

$1500 a ticket could be a bit of a stretch Nasska but $150, you could fly up to the event and back and still have a heap of money left over !~
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June 6, 2015 1:39pm
publicwatchdog

ummm…… do keep up Nasska?

There is a range of speakers that cover the different political ‘galaxies’ – as it were – at this upcoming Public Meeting on Auckland Council proposed rate$ increases?

Yes – as a confirmed 2016 Auckland Mayoral candidate – I am one of the speakers, as is Stephen Berry (also a confirmed 2016 Auckland Mayoral candidate, for Affordable Auckland), as is Auckland Councillor Cameron Brewer, as is Jo Holmes from the Auckland Ratepayers’ Alliance, as is Bill Raynor from Grey Power, as is David Seymour ACT MP for Epsom …

(There are representatives from United Future and the Maori Party who will also be speaking – but I think the above-mentioned speakers show the political ‘breadth’ of the concern about Auckland rate$ increases?

‘Socialist mates waffling’ …..?

I don’t think so Nasska.

At least, unlike yourself, we’re trying to do something about citizens and ratepayers being bled dry by this enforced Auckland ‘Supercity’ amalgamation?

Kind regards

Penny Bright

http://www.pennybright4mayor.org.nz
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June 6, 2015 1:40pm
Pete George

I’m fairly sure The Nation will have started investigating this story (probably since all the attention Rachinger got in late April/early May), well before Whale Oil announced their Decade of Dirt event (in late May).
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June 6, 2015 1:41pm
stigie

Affordable Auckland….Vote for Penny lets all not pay our rates Bright !~
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June 6, 2015 1:48pm
publicwatchdog

Seen this Kiwibloggers?
————————————————————————-
Trade agreements like TiSA, TPP and TTIP will sideline national laws, Wikileaks says

The Trade in Services Agreement exposed in a 17 document dump by Wikileaks on Thursday relates to ongoing negotiations to lock market liberalisations into global law.

By HAZEL SHEFFIELD
Friday 05 June 2015

Wikileaks has warned that governments negotiating a far-reaching global service agreement are ‘surrendering a large part of their global sovereignty’ and exacerbating the social inequality of poorer countries in the process.

The Trade in Services Agreement exposed in a 17 document dump by Wikileaks on Thursday relates to ongoing negotiations to lock market liberalisations into global law.

If a country like China wanted to join, it would have to scrap all discriminatory practices against foreign firms – so discrimination against a foreign firm opening a hospital in China would be banned, for example.

————————————————————-

Penny Bright

http://www.pennybright4mayor.org.nz
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June 6, 2015 1:49pm
Pete George

Pete George has a really unhealthy fascination with ultra-LEFT wing Hager/Prentis/Standard/MSM CRAP. Prentis would be the last person on earth to sell me a used car. But he, PG, and the Standard always seem willing and ready to sell the latest Rawshark and Hager memes.

Just as it is time that Cam Slater dropped his anti Key/English/Joyce stance, so is it long past time for PG to drop his anti Slater stance.

Settle down and show some maturity PG

Very funny flipper.

I’ve had a lot more arguments and clashes with Prentice and Presland than I have with Slater.

I’ve been very critical of the Rawshark hacking, and it’s consistent to also criticise a possible attempt to hack The Standard, which would be very hypocritical of Slater after all his complaining about how bad it was that he was hacked.

Why the fuck should I stop criticisng Slater where I see it is warranted flipper? Your pissy little diss is immature.

Do you really think that Slater is beyond reproach in all of this? He and Prentice are just about as bad as each other. Very ironicaly lprent has just posted:

Good thing they didn’t use my closing comment then. Something like
“Cameron Slater is the arsehole of the local internet”

They’re both abusive hypocrites.
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June 6, 2015 1:49pm
publicwatchdog

Seen this Kiwibloggers?

———————————————————————–

Confidential USTR Emails Show Close Industry Involvement In TPP Negotiations

05/06/2015 BY WILLIAM NEW, INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY WATCH 9 COMMENTS

While a full range of stakeholders would be affected by the outcome of the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) agreement under secret negotiation by the United States and a dozen trading partners, corporate representatives have had a special seat at the negotiating table, as shown by hundreds of pages of confidential emails from the US Trade Representative’s office obtained by Intellectual Property Watch. The emails give a rare and fascinating perspective on how policy is developed in the trade office.

Years into the negotiation, the TPP is said to be nearing completion and is the subject of a US congressional debate over renewal of fast-track negotiating authority for the president (limiting Congress to a yes or no vote). But the TPP text has never been made available to the public of the countries negotiating it, except through periodic leaks of parts of the text, making these emails timely for the debate.

Through a US Freedom of Information Act request, Intellectual Property Watch has obtained some 400 pages of email traffic between USTR officials and industry advisors. Most of the content of the emails is redacted (blacked out), but they still give insight into the process.

The released emails, ranging from 2010 to 2013, are made public for the first time here (1 of 4), here (2 of 4), here (3 of 4), and here (4 of 4) [all pdf].

[Update: the Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) has created a searchable version of the documents, here.]

The FOIA request is the subject of a lawsuit brought on behalf of IP-Watch by the Yale Law School Media Freedom and Information Access Clinic. Intellectual Property Watch does not take a position on trade negotiations, but has argued that the extreme secrecy of the TPP has made it too difficult to write meaningful stories about the negotiations. Typical press stories are limited to the dates of meetings and the list of agenda items, with no detail.

[Note: The ongoing lawsuit by Yale and IP-Watch that led to the advisor emails being released is also trying to make the TPP text public, and is awaiting a decision from the court.]

What is striking in the emails is not that government negotiators seek expertise and advice from leading industry figures. But the emails reveal a close-knit relationship between negotiators and the industry advisors that is likely unmatched by any other stakeholders.

Records of engagement with other stakeholders, such as members of Congress, small businesses, public interest advocacy groups, academics, or any other “non-cleared” advisors, were not requested by IP-Watch, so it is not possible to directly compare their level of access. But it is difficult to imagine that, for instance, activists representing the general public interest would receive this level of tight-knit treatment, even if they also could be considered experts.

The cleared advisors in the email exchanges represent a range of industries and companies, including law firms. Among them are (in no particular order): Recording Industry Association of America, PhRMA, General Electric, Intel, Cisco, White and Case, Advanced Medical Technology Association (AdvaMed), Motion Picture Association of America, Wiley Rein, Entertainment Software Association, Fanwood Chemical, American Chemistry Council, CropLife, Medtronic, American Continental Group consultants, and Abbott. There is also an exchange with generics pharmaceutical industry representatives.

Many of the industry representatives are themselves former USTR officials.

Examples of Exchanges

Exchanges between officials and industry cover just about any topic affecting the TPP that came up during the period, such as expansion of the TPP to include Japan and other countries, a transparency agreement among negotiating countries, a public statement by USTR about access to medicines, Canada and culture, US patent reform, IPR and environmental information, software patentability, relations with the European Union, other trade agreements and international developments, and as expected numerous consultations over elements of the draft treaty text.

For instance, General Electric Aviation division representative Tanuja Garde asks, “On trade secrets, can you share the language you tabled or discuss by phone?” To which the USTR official Probir Mehta answers, “Let’s chat; How about sometime Monday?” Elsewhere, Garde writes to Mehta: “I heard about what was tabled in Dallas – great job. Have you briefed the Chamber? [referring to the US Chamber of Commerce, an industry association] Mehta replies: “Thanks Tanuja – actually the thanks go to you and Joe!” [referring to USTR official Joe Whitlock] We’ve briefed the US Chamber led TPP IP Task Force last week.”

A number of other big companies are included in discussions on trade secrets, such as DuPont, Corning, Microsoft and Qualcomm.

In another example, Entertainment Software Association (ESA) Vice President Stevan Mitchell provides a draft ESA analysis on technological protection measures (TPM) in the negotiation. The USTR reply is, “Are you free next week for lunch at some point?”

Jennifer Sanford of Cisco Systems engaged on TPP and supply chain issues. Greg Slater of Intel provided a memo on an undisclosed topic. Timothy Brightbill of Wiley Rein is asked on short notice to provide language on state-owned enterprises (SOE) for a government interagency proposal.

RIAA reviewed the telecommunications chapter and had questions, discussed a “selected ITAC members’ re posted TPP copyright and enforcement text,” made comments on language regarding internet service providers, and provided information about legitimate online music services available in New Zealand. The International IP Alliance also weighed in on the copyright and enforcement text. In addition, copyright industry representatives sent their views on copyright limitations and exceptions and secondary liability options, and safe harbors.

An ITAC is a USTR Industry Trade Advisory Committee, for which there are several by industry sector.

At one point early on, Doug Nelson of CropLife said his team had been lobbying government officials in Kuala Lumpur and Vietnam on “agchemical data protection,” and that “their reception to our TRIPS Article 39.3 emphasis on data exclusivity was very positive.” He asked if CropLife could make a presentation at an upcoming round of TPP talks in New Zealand or if there was a spot on the US delegation for a representative. USTR official Stan McCoy replied simply that they did not know how the New Zealand government was going to handle private sector side meetings.

In another email in 2011, McCoy told GE lobbyists, “In case your CEO will be at the patent reform bill signing, I wanted to let you know that NZ Trade Minister Tim Groser is planning to attend. It would be a lovely opportunity for a CEO to turn to him and, for example, encourage NZ to support a strong IP chapter in the TPP…”

At another point, Jim DeLisi of Fanwood Chemical said he had just seen the text on rules of origin, and remarked, “Someone owes USTR a royalty payment. These are our rules. … This is a very pleasant surprise.”

In a further example, Ralph Ives of AdvaMed had an exchange with Barbara Weisel of USTR about a CEO letter on TPP. Weisel said she would not comment until she had seen the letter, and “please don’t name names of negotiators in the letter, although I appreciate the thought.” Ives responds apparently with a draft of the letter, saying, “I’m not asking you to edit, of course, but let me know if something like this would be ok to send.” Weisel responds with a request to meet with him on it before he sends anything, and proceeds to make meeting arrangements. Elsewhere, AdvaMed is involved in a discussion about technical barriers to trade (TBT).

An Australian medical industry association is included in direct engagement with USTR officials.

Among other things the emails show is that negotiators – and industry representatives – work very hard and long hours, including weekends and holidays, with countless trips around the world.

It also seems clear that USTR officials try to stay within the rules they are given, and may not even agree with level of secrecy of the talks. At one point in 2012, Jared Ragland, director of the USTR Office of Intellectual Property and Innovation, tells a lobbyist, “Happy to have a quick call with you, and interested members, if necessary, altho ugh [sic] I can’t really talk text with non-CAs as you know” (referring to non-cleared advisors).

And at another point, there is a reference made to a request by USTR lead negotiator Barbara Weisel for industry not to keep repeating itself.

Related Articles:
Divide And Conquer: The New US Strategy To Disentangle The TPP Negotiations
IP-Watch Works To Open TPP Text; USTR Misses Response Deadline
USTR: IPRs Among “Most Challenging” Issues As TPP Talks Accelerate
William New may be reached at wnew@ip-watch.ch.

“Confidential USTR Emails Show Close Industry Involvement In TPP Negotiations” by Intellectual Property Watch is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 4.0 International License.

FILED UNDER: ACCESS TO KNOWLEDGE, ASIA/PACIFIC, BILATERAL/REGIONAL NEGOTIATIONS, COPYRIGHT POLICY, ENFORCEMENT, ENGLISH, HUMAN RIGHTS, IP POLICIES, LANGUAGE, LATIN AMERICA/CARIBBEAN, LOBBYING, NORTH AMERICA, PATENTS/DESIGNS/TRADE SECRETS, PUBLIC HEALTH, REGIONAL POLICY, THEMES, TRADEMARKS/GEOGRAPHICAL INDICATIONS/DOMAINS, VENUES

——————————————————————-

Penny Bright

http://www.pennybright4mayor.org.nz
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June 6, 2015 1:57pm
ross411

While I can’t see it on Twitter this has been posted at The Standard:

“@lprent: @lprent On my 56th birthday. I go on camera for the first time in the seven years of running The Standards systems. Clean up NZ politics …”

Prentice could start with cleaning up The Standard but that’s unlikely, he’s one of the dirtiest players there.

What the shit does “running The Standards systems.” mean? It sounds like a pathetic way to blow one’s own horn. Who talks like that?
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June 6, 2015 1:59pm
Pete George

Anthony Robins has posted some PR – Welcome to The Standard

Welcome to any new readers checking out this blog today as a result of the “dirty politics” segment on The Nation.

After explaining about The Standard he goes on:

Thanks to Nicky Hager’s book Dirty Politics we all now know that the National Party have been running a sustained dirty tricks campaign, largely through attack blogs such as Whaleoil and Kiwiblog. One of the things that John Key frequently repeated during the dirty politics saga was that “Labour does it too”, and that left wing blogs such as The Standard were engaged in dirty politics too. Those were pretty desperate lies.

He’s playing with words there. There’s an attempt by some people to narrowly define what ‘dirty politics’ means – what National/Key/Slater/DPF/the MSM does that’s deemed anti-left.

The Standard does a lot of dirt too but they try to hide that behind definitions.

There’s no way The Standard has ever had (or ever wanted to have) the inclination or the contacts needed to play the dirty politics game. But that doesn’t stop real dirty politics players such as Cameron Slater, David Farrar and Matthew Hooton from obsessing about this blog, to the extent of trying to snoop around our internal discussions or even attempt to have the blog “hacked” (if The Nation didn’t cover this you can read about it on Scoop). These people really really need to find a better hobby.

Yeah, right. And Prentice is the most polite and welcoming blogger ever.

Anyway, welcome to The Standard. It’s just a blog. Stay and chat a while…

It’s just a blog that allows you to chat if you don’t say things they dislike, and if you don’t fall foul of the resident trolls who attack, abuse harass anyone they take a dislike too.
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June 6, 2015 2:00pm
stephieboy

Fletch,

“By the way, the Russians and now the Iranian news media are claiming that John Kerry’s ‘bicycle crash’ in which he broke his leg, was actually an assassination attempt by ISIS.”

Wow “bicycle crash ”

Did ISIS plant a roman candle o or thunder cracker on it ?

Reid , thoughts about the Russian tacit admission that M17 was downed by a Buk and that the Rebels had downed a AN 26 at 21,000 ftjust prior with what only could only be Buk .Manpad shoulder launchers have only 11,000 ft max surface ceiling !

Coincidence or what ?
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June 6, 2015 2:04pm
ross411

My prediction for Wednesday’s Auckland rates meeting.

There will be attendees who have a belief that only they know the truth, and any truth other than their own is wrong regardless of the facts. Information coming from them is fact, despite lack of substance or proof. Information coming from anyone else who is not saying what they want to hear, is not fact, despite abundance of substance or proof. Among them will be Penny Bright, as much a mayoral candidate as I am an astronaut.
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June 6, 2015 2:10pm
ross411

Pete George (24,524 comments) says:
June 6th, 2015 at 2:00 pm
Anthony Robins has posted some PR – Welcome to The Standard
….
Yeah, right. And Prentice is the most polite and welcoming blogger ever.

Anyway, welcome to The Standard. It’s just a blog. Stay and chat a while…

It’s just a blog that allows you to chat if you don’t say things they dislike, and if you don’t fall foul of the resident trolls who attack, abuse harass anyone they take a dislike too.

Yes, The Standard is a joke. But going through some nonsense they post and noting a retort for each bullshit claim seems a bit petty.

At this point in time, you should be able to post an itemised list of all their hypocrisy with links to support it, point by point. That’d be much stronger than the weak retorts.
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June 6, 2015 2:14pm
Fletch

France has been doing some great things recently.

First, they have banned food waste in supermarkets –

In a rare show of unity France’s parliament has voted unanimously to ban food waste in big supermarkets, notably by outlawing the destruction of unsold food products.

“It’s scandalous to see bleach being poured into supermarket dustbins along with edible foods,” Socialist member of parliament Guillaume Garot, who sponsored the bill, said on Thursday.

Under the new legislation, supermarkets will have to take measures to prevent food waste and will be forced to donate any unsold but still edible food goods to charity or for use as animal feed or farming compost.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/europe/68779200/France-to-ban-food-waste-in-supermarkets

Now they have made paying for sex illegal –

A tough new law that will see men jailed for paying for sex is set to come into force in France.
The controversial anti-vice bill proposes fines of up to £1,200 – and ultimately a six-month prison sentence – for the clients of prostitutes. The government says the law is aimed at preventing violence against women, with the final goal of seeing prostitution disappear entirely.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3109799/Men-pay-sex-fined-1-200-new-rules-brought-France.html

We need these laws passed here as well.
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June 6, 2015 2:17pm
PhilP

At least, unlike yourself, we’re trying to do something about citizens and ratepayers being bled dry by this enforced Auckland ‘Supercity’ amalgamation?

Kind regards

Penny Bright

Ha bloody Ha. This from the Woman who refuses to pay her Rates. Penny being bled dry? I don’t think so. Such a hypoctite is our
lady (I use that word very loosely) Penny. Go on, be a big girl and give up all your ACC services that you don’t pay for.
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June 6, 2015 2:18pm
waikatogirl

duggledog
waikatogirl: Most cockies are immune to a bit of wet weather, but with the milk prices at a new low, you won’t see those cheque books opening so often.

***
Yes, it’s going to get rough down on the farm if the payout doesn’t bounce soon. Also for the rural towns and supply companies. Battern down the hatches…
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June 6, 2015 2:18pm

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