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June 11, 2015 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 11 June 2015

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General Debate

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Dennis Horne

CO2 has increased from 270 to 400ppm; the level of an important greenhouse gas has increased 40%. One would expect Earth to retain more energy. This would change the climate, because the Sun’s energy is what drives the climate.

If the data do not show climate change, there are only two possibilities. 1. There is some mechanism that prevents Earth retaining more energy, 2. The data are wrong.

The third option is, like the assertion NZ be nuclear-free, people are living in the long white cuckoo land.
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June 11, 2015 7:30pm
big bruv

Can anybody tell me the name of the Auckland restaurant featured on Seven Sharp tonight. The restaurant in question serves live fish to its clients. I would love to name and shame the place.
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June 11, 2015 7:38pm
thedavincimode

I would love to name and shame

Name and shame? You’ve just outed yourself by admitting you watch 7 sharp.
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June 11, 2015 7:52pm
UglyTruth

If the data do not show climate change, there are only two possibilities. 1. There is some mechanism that prevents Earth retaining more energy, 2. The data are wrong.

The third option is that the climate change due to a 270 to 400ppm rise in the level of CO2 is inconsequential, since the relationship between the greenhouse effect and CO2 levels is logarithmic, not linear.
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June 11, 2015 8:00pm
waikatogirl

BB:
Auckland restaurant featured on Seven Sharp tonight

***
The name wasn’t mentioned!
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June 11, 2015 8:00pm
stigie

Does that mean you watched Campbell as well ???

Good evening to Dad if hes around.
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June 11, 2015 8:02pm
cricko

wiseowl and Reid and Griff.

Regarding the Great Maori Appeaser Findlaysons decision, you are all right. (even Griff is on to it for once.)

1 Findlayson is a piss weak PC walkover and the chosen race are milking him again because of that.
2 Maori are pulling themselves if they think that farming trout for food can ever be a commercial success.
because……
3 Trout are a great sporting fish to angle for in our rivers but a sad disapointment on the table to eat. Even koi carp tast better. (and they will be next in line for a treaty argument,)

Radio airwaves, rain, wind, and trout have as much to do with the ‘TREATY’ as my arse does.
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June 11, 2015 8:04pm
kowtow

waikatogirl

There’ a precedent for telling the baddies you’re out to get them. I know some people will claim it is for the deterent effect. In my opinion any Plod warning crims in advance and then sends Plod out to try and catch said crims should face a charge of wasting police time .

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2882202/Police-warn-pickpockets-language-understand-Romanian-Sign-placed-Covent-Garden-Christmas-shopping-rush.html
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June 11, 2015 8:06pm
cricko

stigie

So witty. As usual.

Jeez, even davinci beat you to it.
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June 11, 2015 8:11pm
Dennis Horne

UglyTruth. By inconsequential you mean undetectable?
http://www.skepticalscience.com/C02-emissions-vs-Temperature-growth.html
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June 11, 2015 8:12pm
UrbanNeocolonialist

Dennis, only just over 1°C per CO2 doubling due to CO2 alone, which is no bid deal.

The big issue is positive water vapour feedbacks, ie slightly warmer due to O2 adds more water vapour that holds more heat. The magnitude (and even direction) of this effect is highly uncertain and is the reason for almost all disagreement between skeptics (lukewarmers) and the catastrophists.

The IPCC has at times in past estimated anywhere up to 8x the effect of CO2 from water vapour, and currently has best guess somewhere around 2-5x CO2 due to water, and falling with every new IPCC report that comes out. Recent analysis of actual climate as opposed to the almost comically crude physics approximations (‘global climate models’ leaned on so heavily and wrongly by the IPCC) suggest around 1.5x for water vapour feedback.

So the real (political) problem is that the only catastrophe that a postive water vapour feedback of 1.5x leads to is a massive reduction in budgets and power for millenialist climatologists and green-humping politicians and industries, and every year that the pause continues the IPCC emperor finds it harder and harder to pretend that his dick is not waving in the breeze.

Yes climate is changing, yes CO2 is likely a major cause (though there has been ~2-3°C of non-CO2 variances since last ice age) but no sky is not going to fall.
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June 11, 2015 8:22pm
Griff

very year that the pause continue
What pause is this ?
There is no pause in global warming that can be supported by statistical examination of the records.
also your view of climate change science is badly missing some important details.
like the climate sensitivity is not only based on models.
And your knowledge of the ipcc findings is also not accurate
you say falling with every new IPCC report that comes out.
well no the sensitivity is pretty much as as it has always been
We have seen a slight drop of the lower bounds from 2 to 1.5 due to political pressure to add some of the lowest least accurate estimations based on 1998 to 2012 in the latest report.
This lower bound will disappear when you add the last two years of data to the equations.

The big issue is positive water vapour feedbacks, ie slightly warmer due to O2 adds more water vapour that holds more heat. The magnitude (and even direction) of this effect is highly uncertain and is the reason for almost all disagreement between skeptics (lukewarmers) and the catastrophists.

You mean (lukewarmers) the loony fringe and catastrophists the mainstream science
water vapor feed back is known and measured without doubt it is happening.
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June 11, 2015 8:45pm
chiz

Sir Christopher Lee has died.
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June 12, 2015 1:55am
Manolo

NZ’s future under a Labour-Greens government: http://www.cnbc.com/id/102752428

As currency dies, Zimbabweans will get $5 for 175 quadrillion local dollars.

They will start exchanging “quadrillions” of local dollars for a few U.S. dollars next week, as President Robert Mugabe’s government discards its virtually worthless national currency, the central bank said on Thursday.
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June 12, 2015 6:13am
Manolo

The Greens will either applaud or despair: http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/06/10/obama-cracks-down-on-airplane-emissions-buys-massive-new-air-force-one/

The Environmental Protection Agency will now hold hearings on the prospective findings, then write up regulation. According to the OMB, the EPA has shown that such emissions justify an “endangerment finding” because they affect climate change; the regulations will reportedly “align… with regulations that the International Civil Aviation Organization, an agency of the United Nations, is developing.”

So the Obama administration wants to crack down on emissions from airplanes. Except, of course, if President Obama is aboard.
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June 12, 2015 6:46am

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