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May 9, 2015 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 9 May 2015

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General Debate

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Lucia Maria

Ok, people. I admit being wrong about why May 9 is the big day in Moscow.

I misunderstood something I heard yesterday when listening to a whole lot of information. I see now that what was being referred to was the signing in Reims on May 7, which was protested by the Soviets, so another more formal signing occurred on May 8 in Berlin. Not really knowing the background to what happened, I will defer comment on what this meant until I find out more. In the meantime, yes I am wrong about what I said.

However, my comment was in response to Andrei, who said Ukraine was rewriting history with regards to the Ukrainians deciding to commemorate the end of the war on the same day that Europe does rather than on the day that Russia does. Looking at photos from various countries I can see that the events take place on May 8 at day time – before the definitive signing at 11:01 pm central European time. Are these countries rewriting history by not waiting until 11:01 pm at night? Is Russia by doing their military parades on the day, during the day, rather than at night at well?

Jack,

Eh? Russia has nine time zones …

But the only one that matters is the Moscow time zone, and it’s only a couple of hours different from Central European time, and both Reims and Berlin are in this time zone. Look at the map: Coolplays Time Zone Map Calculator
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May 9, 2015 10:04pm
Reid

I must say I’m quite disappointed freemark hasn’t got back re: the sheepie remark.

I was quite looking forward to having at the dastardly fellow who’d been using such poor grammar, but he never ever did.

What a shame.
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May 9, 2015 10:05pm
Johnboy

Good grief. I don’t know what this blog is coming to. I just popped back and spotted “Bang good ..Thicken”

I will attempt to if any ladies can assist! 🙂
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May 9, 2015 10:08pm
Reid

I will attempt to if any ladies can assist!

See you’re a dying generation Johnboy, being so helpful and all, with anything that comes along, no matter how inconvenient for you.

Perhaps we should see if DPF can put you up for a knighthood, or at the least a QSM.

I don’t expect we’ll have any trouble at all finding a seconder.
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May 9, 2015 10:11pm
Maggy Wassilieff

@JB 9:57pm

Now I know a thing or two about condom sizing.
The husband’s Ph.D. involved the use of a condom as a pressure regulator to deliver liquid helium to his experimental set-up.
He was rather surprised when purchasing his first packet and the chemist asked him small or large?
small = packet of 3
large = packet of 12
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May 9, 2015 10:12pm
Johnboy

Good grief. How can the absolutely beautiful 65 year old Agnetha Faltskog get three down ticks?

There must be some very ugly jealous old crones out there! 🙂
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May 9, 2015 10:13pm
Lucia Maria

Andrei,

From your quote above

The very next day in Moscow,” Poroshenko continued, “under the pretext of the great victory, the aggressor’s army will brandish its lethal might in front of the world.

Lets see Nazi Germany attacked the Soviet Union and when they liberated their own territitory they were aggressors?

Well, interesting you should choose that quote. Prior to Nazi Germany attacking the Soviet Union, the Nazis and the Soviets jointly attacked Poland. The Soviets didn’t cease being aggressors in WWII just because they were attacked by their former ally. The proof of that was their domination of eastern Europe until the fall of the Soviet Union.

Anyway, that’s not what was being referred to in that quote. The next sentence explains what is meant, both are included below, with the explanatory sentence bolded:

“The very next day in Moscow,” Poroshenko continued, “under the pretext of the great victory, the aggressor’s army will brandish its lethal might in front of the world. Some of the units were in Donetsk a few days ago and soon they will appear on the military parade in Moscow.”

And if that isn’t clear enough, there are Russian military units fighting the Ukrainians in Ukraine. A number of those units will show up for the parade in Moscow and then go back to Ukraine to keep fighting the Ukrainians. That is why they are being referred to as aggressors. Much more to do with today than what happened more than 70 years ago.
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May 9, 2015 10:17pm
Johnboy

Must have been a bloody long time ago that he did his research Maggy. I also used to buy them at the chemists, at Perretts Corner, as a lad. He sold them in brown paper bags. I was such a good customer the old chap got a crate full in! 🙂
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May 9, 2015 10:19pm
Johnboy

Anyway Maggy tell us about what size you prefer? 🙂
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May 9, 2015 10:21pm
Andrei

You do understand Lucia Maria that for a lot of people in Ukraine this is taking a giant dump on their war dead

And you do understand that this is an action designed to exacerbate divisions within Ukrainian society and escalate a civil war

And you do understand that the USA, Great Britain and Canada have placed troops into Ukraine, these being nations a long way from Ukraine and therefore not in the immediate firing line when it all turns to custard.

On the other hand Poles, who must be congentially stupid are allowing their lands to be used as a launching point for an attack on Russia, thus when the Americans fuck up as they always do – see Viet Nam thru to Yemen. Poland has put itself in the firing line,

The same cretins who have brought chaos to the ME and North Africa are now doing it to Eastern Europe – which brings benefits American business but is fucking hard on the people who have to live in their war zones.
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May 9, 2015 10:22pm
Johnboy

I don’t want a medal for servicing queens Reid! 🙂
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May 9, 2015 10:25pm
Reid

Lucia do you have any issues with what happened to the German civilians in Poland between 1945-50 or not really, you’re fine with everything that the Poles did to them, in Poland, during that time.

?

Naturally you know all about what happened.

Of course you do.

You’re an educated person, aren’t you.

As well as a spiritual one.

So naturally, you know all about those years, don’t you.

On the other hand Poles, who must be congentially stupid are allowing their lands to be used as a launching point for an attack on Russia..

Andrei recall when the entire Polish leadership was wiped out a few years ago. Why do you think they did that?

They’re setting Poland up, it’s quite clear. You’d have to be an idiot not to realise it. Meat in the sandwich again, in a game between Russia and Nato.

I don’t want a medal for servicing queens Reid!

I’d turn it down too Johnboy. Even if it got me a front row seat at the Opera. I’d prefer a front row seat at Sunday Yum Cha.
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May 9, 2015 10:25pm
Maggy Wassilieff

@JB…
oh, we’re positively ancient.
Hubby was purchasing them in Island Bay. He had to flash his non-Catholic credentials to get them.
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May 9, 2015 10:26pm
Lucia Maria

Russia stages huge military parade, Western leaders boycott

Putin has used the anniversary to whip up patriotism and fuel anti-Western sentiment, warning that fascism could be on the rise again and suggesting other countries are rewriting history to play down Moscow’s role in winning the war.

Ah, so that’s where this idea of “rewriting history” comes from!
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May 9, 2015 10:28pm
Johnboy

And here was me thinking only the Jewish chaps could flash definite religious credentials Maggy! 🙂
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May 9, 2015 10:31pm
Reid

Putin has used the anniversary to whip up patriotism and fuel anti-Western sentiment

Yes, how dare he object to countries who are trying to destroy him and rape his country and make it into a vassal state under the great American Empire upon which the sun itself never ever sets ever? How dare he not get with this glorious and magnificent program? Who the fuck does he think he is? It’s like him and his stupid little country has a mind of its own! It’s like he doesn’t even realise how exceptional the whole US of A in fact really truly in fact is and always has been.
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May 9, 2015 10:32pm
Andrei

FFS – Lucia Maria, they have the parade every year, just like we have Anzac Day.

And when it comes down to it Lucia Maria it was the Red Army that liberated Auschwitz and it was the Red Army that took Berlin
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May 9, 2015 10:33pm
Lucia Maria

Reid,

Lucia do you have any issues with what happened to the German civilians in Poland between 1945-50 or not really, you’re fine with everything that the Poles did to them, in Poland, during that time.

Poland was a bad place to be from 1939 onwards. Even after the war had ended, there was the Soviet occupation and all that entailed. It was too dangerous for my dad and his family to return. As well as borders being changed to make up for what the Soviets wanted of Polish territory, and parts of Germany being taken to compensate for what was taken from Poland. So yes I do have issues with what happened to civilians in Poland between 1945-50.
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May 9, 2015 10:33pm
Johnboy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XxK2JJisEc
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May 9, 2015 10:38pm
Johnboy

Just for you Andrei! 🙂
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May 9, 2015 10:39pm
Reid

So yes I do have issues with what happened to civilians in Poland between 1945-50.

Glad to hear it.

So the torture, the rapes, the murders, the concentration camps the Poles inflicted on the German civilians after the war ended, you’re quite familiar with, and you unequivocally condemn?

Of course you do, how could you not?
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May 9, 2015 10:40pm
Andrei

As well as borders being changed to make up for what the Soviets wanted of Polish territory

For goodness sakes Lucia Maria the lands the Soviets took were taken by Poland in the 1920s. Poland between the wars went to war with all its neighbours to annex land – including Czechslovakia in 1938 whn it annexed territory more or less as an ally of Hitler as he took Sudetenland

But all this is a long time ago and we can’t change it – none of us were born when it happened
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May 9, 2015 10:40pm
Andrei

Thanks JB, I see the phantom down ticker has struck – some people eh humourless

BTW do I post Vera Lynn in response?

I wasn’t sure
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May 9, 2015 10:49pm
Lucia Maria

Andrei,

For goodness sakes Lucia Maria the lands the Soviets took were taken by Poland in the 1920s.

I was answering Reid’s question to me about what I thought about what happened to German civilians in Poland. The part of my answer that you quoted was to provide context for what I thought, because German civilians were very affected by the border changes.

Stop expanding the argument and making out what I’m saying is outrageous, when it’s just a statement about what happened.
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May 9, 2015 10:50pm
Johnboy

Minus is like rust and cancer. It never sleeps. Vera Lynn would be nice. I just try to cheer up the place when it gets all serious like it is now! 🙂
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May 9, 2015 10:56pm
Andrei

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNB8VbFmlOY
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May 9, 2015 11:04pm
Johnboy

Wonderful Andrei. Lets hope we never get to old to dream. Dame Vera is 98 and still going strong! 🙂
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May 9, 2015 11:10pm
Reid

I was answering Reid’s question to me about what I thought about what happened to German civilians in Poland.
So what do you think did happen to them Lucia? Specifically?

Sounds like all you think happened to them is some land got taken from them and they got sent back to Germany. Is that what you think happened to them?
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May 9, 2015 11:19pm
Lucia Maria

Reid,

Sounds like all you think happened to them is some land got taken from them and they got sent back to Germany. Is that what you think happened to them?

All that happened to my Dad was that he and his family were sent to Siberia and their land confiscated.

Of course it was a whole more than that, especially when the Soviets were involved.

So, what do you think I think, Reid?
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May 9, 2015 11:25pm
Elaycee

Like most Kiwis who spend a fair chunk of time offshore, I catch up on ‘hometown’ news via the internet – usually via Stuff (or on rare occasions I even visit the Hoorald). Now, I’m no fan of the Hoorald – whilst they would want us believe they are politically neutral, in reality they blatantly push the political left with monotonous regularity. But because this bias is permanently on display, at least readers know this in advance if they opt to visit the site. So with this in mind, today (many time zones away) I went on line and checked out the Hoorald lead items… and the ‘Editor’s Picks’ section.

The lead item in “Editor’s Picks’ was a photo of Prince Harry and I clicked on it thinking it may relate to his current visit to NZ…. But the subsequent musings of some ‘reporter’ can only be classified as total garbage:

So, who might win the heart of our favourite ginger? We bring you our top five candidates …
1. Former Shortland St star Teuila Blakely
2. Dani Robinson, the runner-up from The Bachelor
3. Superstar Lorde
4. Netball champion Maria Tutaia
5. World No. 1 women’s golfer Lydia Ko

Bloody hell! A totally cringeworthy ‘item’ from some ‘gossip columnist’ listing Kiwis she thinks Harry could marry??? And the Editor decides this is not only worth including in the online version of the Hoorald, but also posts it as lead item in “Editor’s Picks’???

The item is puerile crap. The fact it features on the front page of the Hoorald website, strongly suggests ‘journalism’ in New Zealand has reached a fresh nadir and the Hoorald is leading the charge.

Is it any coincidence their readership numbers are in freefall?

Nah. No coincidence at all.
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May 10, 2015 5:12am
stephieboy

Reid, enlighten us what did the Poles do to German Civilians in 1945-50 without Russian knowledge and complicity ? And what did the Russians do to German POWs post war ?
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May 10, 2015 8:33am

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