General Debate 24 May 2015

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Chuck Bird

The police and the justice system are a disgrace in this case as they are with Peter Ellis. Common sense should trump procedure.

Phil Taylor: Malcolm Rewa must go on trial for murder
5:00 AM Sunday May 24, 2015

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11453658
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May 24, 2015 8:05am
duggledog

I would like to see Far North GP Dr Lance O’Sullivan to be made New Zealander of the Year again this year.

He was on TV yesterday asserting parents in some areas of the country – especially his turf – need to go back to work when their child is three because life is so toxic for them at home that at least this way the state can give them some decent role models and get some food into them, see how they’re doing.

He also believes the extra $25 a week beneficiaries will receive would be better off managed for them by someone else.

The Left will be fuming, especially the mental mad Green left.

Here’s a guy – a Maori to boot – who clearly knows what he’s talking about, desecrating their entire philosophy.

This is one brave man. But like I say, he knows what he’s talking about. Most NZers would have no idea how bad it is in places like rural Kaikohe, Hokianga etc.

Go Dr Lance!
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May 24, 2015 8:06am
Viking2

I can feel that global warming is a feature of today.
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May 24, 2015 8:07am
Manolo

The savages fly their flag:
http://www.repubblica.it/esteri/2015/05/23/news/palmira_militanti_dell_is_sono_entrati_nel_museo-115086853/?ref=HRER3-1
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May 24, 2015 8:12am
EAD

I see that overnight, Ireland voted to legalise homosexual marriage after an overwhelming campaign which all Political Parties, Media Outlets & Government Departments backed the “Yes” vote:

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2015/05/23/pro-gay-marriage-senator-irish-vote-will-lead-to-change-like-soviet-revolution/

They had so much popular support that supporters of traditional marriage were afraid to speak up:

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2015/05/22/traditionalists-silenced-in-irish-gay-marriage-vote/

Whether you agree with homesexual “marriage” or not ( I don’t) tt strikes me as bizarre that this is the most pressing issue all across the Western World at exactly the same time.

This leads me to consider the following reasons.

1. Homosexual Lobby groups are extraordinarily well organised and powerful enough too bend every single western establishment to their will when they please.

2. At precisely the same time all Western Governments had some kind of awakening to the shocking injustice of Homos not being able to get married.

3.The Elites of the Western World operate collectively under and within some kind of central command that has dictated a set time frame to force through homosexual marriage.
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May 24, 2015 8:16am
G152

Isn’t it about time Kirwan did something else.
Poor old Auckland with a duff mare and a rugby team with the blues.
And at the rate the rates rate so it can all be buried in a rail system not even the mare uses…
Bring back Banks
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May 24, 2015 8:18am
mikenmild

The Elites of the Western World operate collectively under and within some kind of central command that has dictated a set time frame to force through homosexual marriage

Better keep taking your pills
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May 24, 2015 8:21am
SGA

EAD at 8:16 am

Whether you agree with homesexual “marriage” or not ( I don’t) tt strikes me as bizarre that this is the most pressing issue all across the Western [White] World at exactly the same time.

Is it really that bizarre? I’d imagine that things like women’s suffrage followed a similar pattern. Once it happens somewhere, others start asking “why not here”?
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May 24, 2015 8:22am
Manolo

Will the UK leave? I do not think so.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/eureferendum/11625919/Owen-Paterson-leaving-European-Union-could-increase-prosperity-and-boost-jobs.html

Owen Paterson, the former Conservative Cabinet minister, has said that leaving the European Union could boost the British economy. Speaking after the Bank of England accidentally emailed details of its secret plan to investigate the impact of quitting the EU, Mr Paterson said it was wrong to suggest that the banking industry would be threatened by the move.
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May 24, 2015 8:22am
Paulus

Ireland are still in the bog era, but like to think, like New Zealand, that they are world leaders in every field.
I know a number of Irish people who will be astonished at the pressure grouping over this – like Homosexual Law reform in New Zealand.
Imagine what new sexual preference pressures will be brought to bear with Robertson leading Labour and Haigh leading the Green EcoTerrorists.
And I am from Irish extraction – even with a very Irish name – but have only seen Ireland from 35,000ft in the air – which is as far as I ever wanted to be.
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May 24, 2015 8:28am
EAD

@ MM,

Just what do you think the UN is all about? Have you ever put 2 and 2 together to wonder how the same things are happening, following the same patterns, in every single Western Country at the same time no matter which party is in power? Do you think it is just coincidence?

@ SGA
Let’s all be clear about what’s going on here. This is just one part of the continued willful subversion of the norms that sustained our society for centuries. Homosexual Marriage has go nothing to do with “equality”, it instead has everything to do with undermining the traditional family (remember point 11 of the Frankfurt School plan). Once you undermine marriage as being about a union between man and woman for the purpose of creating a union for the raising of a family, then the significance of marriage is destroyed. The only pre-requisite now apparently is that you “love” someone.

The problem is that the ordinary man in the street does not understand the issues surrounding “freedom”, either because he is too lazy to think about it or too unintelligent or is not sufficiently educated, and so although he may say “meh” about this particular issue, he does not understand the significance of it. But people who understand “freedom” and know where the threat to “freedom” comes from are very concerned.
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May 24, 2015 8:34am
mikenmild

Sure, it’s all a conspiracy…
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May 24, 2015 8:35am
Manolo

End of the road for the once mighty Crusaders. It is time to move on.
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May 24, 2015 8:36am
peterwn

“Kiwi researchers are creating an “angry computer” to improve customer service at call centres.” NZ Herald.

Companies running call centers should be looking deeper into the behaviour of their call centre customers. For starters it must be flaming obvious that a customer exposed to ‘music on hold’ (and its associated advertising and ‘your call is important to us’ rubbish) is not going to be in the best of moods when the call is finally answered. A more apt enhancement would for the call centre to offer to call back.

The other issue that should be of concern is customers who avoid call centres like the plague. For example I have two issues with Vodafone which are not pressing but I cannot be bothered with running the gauntlet of their call centre. As soon as UFB is in my street I will NOT be signing up with Vodafone.
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May 24, 2015 8:40am
Swifty

EAD.

Or, people around the world have unanimously agreed that it is the right thing to do…….

Central command. Heh.
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May 24, 2015 8:41am
duggledog

John Banks for Mayor is not a good thing for National.

National needs a Socialist Mayor in Auckland to underline and illustrate clearly what Socialists do when they get their hands on a cheque book.

Like a ‘control’ experiment to hold up to the rest of the country. Auckland is the poster boy for foolish decisions and exorbitant spending and incompetency and overwhelming bureaucracy, and National need that to continue as a reminder to the constituency while they are in government.
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May 24, 2015 8:45am
Chuck Bird

Peter, I solved the problem with the Vodafone call centre not answering my call. I did not pay them. They did cal me them I told them I would no pay them as they did not me their part of the contract – providing reasonable service.

The guy who was a little thick asked me if I would like to pay off the bill by instatements. I told I had the money now but refused to pay until they sorted out my problem and confirmed it in writing. This was actioned.
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May 24, 2015 8:48am
eszett

They had so much popular support that supporters of traditional marriage were afraid to speak up:

So, you are not satisfied with polls showing an overwhelming majority.
You are not satisfied with parliament voting for gay marriage with an overwhelming, cross party majority and the parties all being re-elected to parliament the next election in this country.

Now you get a referendum, in a deeply conservative and catholic country, with an overwhelming majority backing gay marriage (62% yes with a 60% turnout) and you are still not satisfied.

Face it, gay marriage is supported by a majority of people in the civilised world. It is here to stay.
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May 24, 2015 8:50am
Dennis Horne

Reproduction. What matters to civilised society is that children are brought up in a healthy stable environment.

‘Marriage’ is just a word. Homosexuals can take the name but they can’t take the concept. They can mock the institution but they can’t breed.

Homosexual marriage is irrelevant to society.
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May 24, 2015 8:53am
eszett

Homosexual marriage is irrelevant to society.

The Irish beg to disagree with you on that one.
And so do many other countries.

And if it is so irrelevant, why are you so upset about it?
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May 24, 2015 8:55am
eszett

‘Marriage’ is just a word. Homosexuals can take the name but they can’t take the concept. They can mock the institution but they can’t breed.

So your marriage with Mrs Horne is nothing but a breeding contract? I am sure she’ll appreciate that view.
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May 24, 2015 8:57am
Manolo

The European MSM reflects the old continent’s reality:
http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/eurovision/eurovision-2015-lithuanias-gay-kisses-praised-on-twitter–double-same-sex-kiss-extravaganza-hell-yeah-10272434.html
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May 24, 2015 9:00am
Dennis Horne

eszett (2,680 comments) says: May 24th, 2015 at 8:55 am
Dennis Horne: Homosexual marriage is irrelevant to society.
eszett: The Irish beg to disagree with you on that one.

Do you seriously think homosexual marriage came about because society wants homosexual to get married?
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May 24, 2015 9:03am
mikenmild

‘Society’ doesn’t care if homosexuals want to get married. The majority of individuals in Western societies, however, subscribe to a modern view of marriage.
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May 24, 2015 9:05am
Viking2

Call Centres.
The only issues with call centres are simple to fix. Answer the fucking phone when I call, have someone one at the end that speaks slowly and clearly rather than someone who gables in some foreign language,(give us a choice of language speakers), Listen when I tell you the problem, have the details of my account right there, and bust your arse to sort it out. Don’t put half trained dumbies on the phone put ,full time company people who want to work for you.
Just simple customer service really. Not sure why that’s so hard and I do deal with customers on the phone. They can be difficult but you can still sort the problem if you have patience and listen.
Rule no.1 answer the fucking phone quickly.
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May 24, 2015 9:05am
stephieboy

SGA, can we assume that you are opposed to womens suffrage and instead keeping them confined to the home ?

The Irish overwhelming vote is a historic one by any measure and all Briebart and EAD etc can come up as one of the important factors is the conspiracy and machinations of Western elites etc

Pathetic ! Ever consider also an Irish public fed up with historical sexual abuse of children by the Catholic church . Trust the Frankfurt school weren’t conspiring in that cover up ?
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May 24, 2015 9:07am
dime

Wonder if the cantabs will finally realise Blackadder sucks. They have played ugly rugby under his guidance.

2009
2010
2011
2012
2013
2014
2015

Ouch. The crusaders have become the blues of old.. The Blues have become something worse than that. Eek.

I’m sure next year I’ll still hear garbage like “the crusaders know how to win” “it’s ok, the crusaders always start slow” “best side in the country”

Apparently the Blues are chasing Wayne smith, maybe the cantabs should be.. Or see where Dean’s is at!
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May 24, 2015 9:09am
ross411

peterwn (3,603 comments) says:
May 24th, 2015 at 8:40 am
The other issue that should be of concern is customers who avoid call centres like the plague. For example I have two issues with Vodafone which are not pressing but I cannot be bothered with running the gauntlet of their call centre. As soon as UFB is in my street I will NOT be signing up with Vodafone.

I called up Vodafone last week. After sitting on the line for 30 minutes, I got some Indian bird with good English. She then explained she couldn’t handle my TelstraClear account, and said she’d put me on the right line. I laughed and said I’d love to be sitting in a queue listening to music for a lot longer, and she said there was nobody on the queue. So there I sat on another queue for another hour, until someone finally answered.

I understand I called at a busy time, but the hold music is ridiculous. I have to sit there with the phone at my ear for an hour listening to it, in case someone picks up. It becomes my primary focus for that time, and even then I almost missed it as my focus drifted. And it’s terrible NZ music, with Lorde and other mediocre NZ performers repeating over and over.

If I could put it on speaker phone and have it not play music, and notify me quietly occasionally that it was still waiting like a soft chime, and loudly when it got picked up with a loud faux ring, that’d be much better and less imposing. Anything but the music!

But at least this time I got good English speakers who held the phone close enough to their mouths.

They still haven’t fixed the problem – which is obviously their fault, and they admit it. And I paid to report it with my time, and I’ll pay again when they accidentally charge me for the problem.
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May 24, 2015 9:10am
Dennis Horne

eszett (2,680 comments) says: May 24th, 2015 at 8:57 am
Dennis Horne: ‘Marriage’ is just a word. Homosexuals can take the name but they can’t take the concept. They can mock the institution but they can’t breed.
eszett: So your marriage with Mrs Horne is nothing but a breeding contract? I am sure she’ll appreciate that view.

The contract was to copulate and raise any offspring, making a home and whatever sacrifices were necessary.

I’m sure after 43 years, she appreciates my honouring the contract.

Look, eszett, you’re a clever and I’m sure decent guy and I’m not going to argue with you. I know something about marriage and you don’t.
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May 24, 2015 9:13am
Inandout

EAD: Maybe those aligned with Catholicism want to distance themselves from Islamic teaching on homosexuality, because this move will cause much angst among the 49,000 Muslims living in the Irish Republic. I agree that the gay lobby is powerful in most western nations, but I quietly smile when I see how frothing at the mouth Muslims become when gays are given any concessions like this marriage issue. The cries from the anti gay marriage faction ironically plays into the hands of the Islamists; brothers in arms almost.
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May 24, 2015 9:15am
Dennis Horne

I always get my wife to ring call centres. She puts the phone on speaker. Waited two hours for vodafone a few months ago.

I just go fishing or flying as usual. 🙂 🙂 🙂
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May 24, 2015 9:18am
EAD

@MM 9.05am

“modern view of marriage”

When people like MM bandy words about like “modern”, “progressive”, “forward-looking” or “for the good of society”, what they really mean is economic and/or cultural marxism

On the same and a related item (Ireland’s membership of the EU), this is a superb article:

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2015/05/23/irelands-road-to-serfdom/

A sample of the article:
Collectivist principles justify the rise of totally unprincipled apparatchiks. Once collectivist goals are accepted, the way is open for demagogues and ruthless men to gather the “strength” needed to impose the needed measures. To rise in such a system, only totally callous apparatchiks are desired. They must be “unreservedly committed to the person of the leader; but next to this the most important thing is that they should be completely unprincipled and literally capable of everything.

Socialism destroys language – and thought: Ultimately, even the language is perverted. All the most treasured virtues, such as “freedom,” “justice,” “law,” “right,” “equality,” etc., are redefined for collectivist purposes, so that even thought can be controlled.
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May 24, 2015 9:20am
stephieboy

Dennis Horne , maybe you and others here should take leaf out of Sharia Islam and ISIS re Gay Marriage Law reform. They certainly know a thing or two about “marriage .”

BTW it’s worth thinking about Ireland is 84% Roman Catholic. More here ,

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/24/world/europe/ireland-gay-marriage-referendum.html?_r=0
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May 24, 2015 9:21am
Shawn Herles

“Just what do you think the UN is all about?”

The UN is just plain incompetent in the extreme. That alone takes it out of the running for some kind of “central command” with the kind of power your conspiracy theory would give it.

There is no central command in the first place, and no “elites” in the way you claim either.

I’m going to reveal the great secret as to why things happen that you (or anyone) do not like. Are you ready? It’s a big one!

Sometimes people don’t agree with you and hold to different views on moral and political issues.

That’s it. No conspiracy needed.
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May 24, 2015 9:21am
oldpark

Hell has no fury for a blogger scorned as whaleoil site, daily puts the boot into John Key and National Party. Wonder what is his problem, other than sulking that his blogging site, is really not that important after all.
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May 24, 2015 9:23am
stephieboy

Shawn Herles , the single thing that hamstrings the UN is that power of veto on the security council. Meanwhile it does much useful work especially in the are of humanitarian , refugee and famine relief e.g Nepal Earthquake, Syria and the Sudan and Somalia etc .
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May 24, 2015 9:25am
Nookin

Dime
You got it. Every now and again we saw what the Crusaders can do but, for the most part, they were awful. The passion has gone. The team selections are wrong. They need something big with gas in midfield and on the other wing. Crotty should be at 12. Ndolo shouls be made to watch Patrick Osbourne and recite the words “work rate”.
They are going backwards under Blackadder. Even the forwards have lost their mojo. Sad really. The Crusaders hierarchy used to be most switched on. Now they are asleep at the wheel.
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May 24, 2015 9:26am
eszett

Do you seriously think homosexual marriage came about because society wants homosexual to get married?

It came about because society sees no reason not to allow them to get married.
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May 24, 2015 9:27am
stephieboy

Meanwhie this from TM,

Anyway : Pope Francis ; he’s an alright Man………..

“[Francis] is a man who speaks about ordinary things: about mercy, about love, fun, smiling. Not about condemning this or that. He sees above all the complexity of life, and that matters deeply.”

http://www.ibtimes.com/ireland-gay-marriage-vote-irish-catho
lic-church-takes-cue-pope-francis-charts-new-1935450
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May 24, 2015 9:31am
EAD

@ Shawn Herles,

What do you make of the Rockefeller Family gifting the UN all of it’s valuable land in New York? Rockefeller interests which of course benefited from state issued effective monopolies in areas such as oil, banking, heavy industry etc.?

What do you make of the symbolism rampant throughout the UN’s building?

What do you make of David Rockefeller who is is book Memoirs wrote the following:
“Some even believe we are a part of a secret cabal working against the best interests of the United States, characterizing my family and me as ‘internationalists’ and of conspiring with others around the world to build a more integrated global political and economic structure – one world, if you will. If that’s the charge, I stand guilty and I am proud of it.”

or when David Rockefeller said:
“We are grateful to the Washington Post, The New York Times, Time Magazine and other great publications whose directors have attended our meetings and respected their promises of discretion for almost forty years. It would have been impossible for us to develop our plan for the world if we had been subjected to the lights of publicity during those years. But, the world is now more sophisticated and prepared to march towards a world government. The supranational sovereignty of an intellectual elite and world bankers is surely preferable to the national auto-determination practiced in past centuries.”

Still think there is no central command and everything that happens is just random? If not, just remember Franklin D Roosevelt’s immortal words – “In politics, nothing happens by accident. If it happens, you can bet it was planned that way.”
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May 24, 2015 9:33am
HB

my phone/internet is with Trustpower (also my power provider).

I have only had to ring a few times over the last 5 years but they have always answered the phone straight away.
A NZer has answered and fixed my problem then and there.

I am a happy customer. I have been a Telecom and Vodafone customer in the past but left after phone queue problems. Hours waiting on the phone is not acceptable.
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May 24, 2015 9:33am
Dennis Horne

Yes, eszett, homosexual marriage came about because people don’t care about marriage any more. Look at the number of children in broken homes and unstable relationships. Boys brought up without their biological fathers, who help bring up someone else’s children. Maybe.

Even fucking birds do better.
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May 24, 2015 9:33am
Keeping Stock

Maybe John Kirwan and Todd Blackadder should simply switch franchises…
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May 24, 2015 9:35am
mikenmild

Oh, and out we trot with the Rockefellers running the show…
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May 24, 2015 9:36am
stephieboy

EAD,

“What do you make of the symbolism rampant throughout the UN’s building?”

Examples please ?

David Rockefeller quoted from where and by whom ?

Dennis Horne, well as indicated earlier ,you have always useful role model such as radical Sharia to emulate where a wife is virtually a sex slave .
Hopefully you embrace modern concepts of equality in your marriage affairs ?
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May 24, 2015 9:36am
eszett

The contract was to copulate and raise any offspring, making a home and whatever sacrifices were necessary.

I’m sure after 43 years, she appreciates my honouring the contract.

Nice! How romantic. Is that how you proposed to her? Here’s a contract to copulate and raise offspring. Sign here.
If that works for you two, that’s great. Happy for you.

Turns out that other people may have some other views about their own marriage,

Look, eszett, you’re a clever and I’m sure decent guy and I’m not going to argue with you. I know something about marriage and you don’t.

Now, now, no need to be patronising Dennis. If you feel like you don’t have the arguments on your side to argue, that’s fine.
But don’t make assumptions about other people’s knowledge on marriage.
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May 24, 2015 9:37am
eszett

Dennis Horne (2,996 comments) says:
May 24th, 2015 at 9:33 am
Yes, eszett, homosexual marriage came about because people don’t care about marriage any more

If they don’t care, why did they bother to vote in the referendum? Biggest turnout for a referendum ever in Ireland, I believe.
I think that belies your statement that people don’t care.

And have you ever wondered that for those who don’t care, it may be because some people claim that marriage is nothing but a breeding contract?
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May 24, 2015 9:41am
Dennis Horne

Tell me, eszett, how long have you been married?
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May 24, 2015 9:42am
stephieboy

Dennis Horne , your regard to your wife could be accurately described as Victorian ??
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May 24, 2015 9:44am
Shawn Herles

EAD,

So what? Rockerfeller’s opinions are just that, opinions, and his opinions don’t back up your “central command for elites” anyway. But focusing on the UN is a distraction.

You claim to be a Christian, yet I see no Christian thinking in the way you approach the issue of evil. You assume that if bad things happen, or that the culture is not where you or I want it to be, that there must be a conspiracy to explain this. But Scripture is clear, human beings are sinful and corrupt, and thus we create sinful and corrupt cultures. This was true when most of society was nominally Christian, it is true now, it will be still be true in a thousand years.

So, what I am saying is, if you want to source, the real central command for all the ills of the world, go to the bathroom and look in the mirror. You’re looking at central command.

The human heart is a factory of idols.

If you want things to change, focusing on “enemies” out there won’t work because the real enemy is within.

There is only one path to cultural change. Pray, fast, preach the Gospel.
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May 24, 2015 9:44am
Paulus Gnome

oldpark @ 9.23: Slater and his acolyte moderators do have a problem.

The moderation is not much better than that of the standard. If one has a contrary opinion or disagrees with the principle thrust of the post, you are a gone burger.

I am one such gone burger; I happier to be here where dissent may get booed from the side-lines but the point is allowed to be made, Penny.
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May 24, 2015 9:46am
stephieboy

Shawn Herles,

How dare you destroy the illusion of EAD’s conspiracy bubble !
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May 24, 2015 9:46am
OneTrack

EAD – “They had so much popular support that supporters of traditional marriage were afraid to speak up:”

This is where my problem comes with the progressive agenda. You aren’t allowed to disagree with them.

How long will it be before a baker/pizza company is closed down because they said they wouldn’t be comfortable going against their personal views to put a statement on the cake/pizza promoting, say, gay marriage.

In the normal world, that would mean you would just go to another supplier. In progressive-land, this is a signal to start jihad against the heretics and drive them out of business. Disagreement must be suppressed.
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May 24, 2015 9:51am
EAD

@ SH 9.48am,

you are muddying the waters by attacking strawmen again

These aren’t Rockefeller’s “opinions” – an opionion is statement about matters commonly considered to be subjective

What he is stating is a matter of fact.

Anyway, just what do you think they discuss at meetings like Davos, the council of 300 or the Bilderberg meetings and why aren’t minutes released or the public invited to attend? I’m pretty sure it’s not golf handicaps!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/10102170/Bilderberg-Group-2013-guest-list-and-agenda.html
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May 24, 2015 9:52am
Dennis Horne

The essence of marriage has been, since time immemorial, copulation and raising children, in the general case.

This has been a fundamental activity since life evolved. A special relationship between men and women.

Homosexual relationships are special relationships between men and men, and women and women. Inherently concepts different from what has always been understood as marriage.

Marriage has now been redefined and, as such, ‘marriage’ is no longer marriage. The word has changed but the concepts have not.
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May 24, 2015 9:54am
wiseowl

EAD@8.34am

Nailed it again.
I woke up this morning to the Irish cheering on the news ad talking about ‘love’.

My thoughts reflected your response and it is not just this queer issue that is bouncing around the western world.
Who is pulling the strings and how?
The Irish response shows how many are lead by the nose and it is a worry as western society and culture are dismantled bit by bit.
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May 24, 2015 9:56am
Keeping Stock

Where’s Pete George these days? I haven’t followed Kiwiblog quite so diligently in the last week or so, but he seems to have vanished from here without trace. Did he fall, or was he pushed?
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May 24, 2015 10:00am
Shawn Herles

“you are muddying the waters by attacking strawmen again”

No, I’m giving you the Biblical reason for why bad things happen. No conspiracy theory is needed to explain human sin or sinful cultures. They are, in a sense, normal.

Your need to have an enemy “out there” blinds you to the Biblical truth that the enemy is US. All of us.

The Biblical answer as to why humans do bad things is not because someone or some group made us do bad things but because we, each and every one of us, misuse our freedom to do bad, and we have been doing this for so long it has become natural.

Your conspiracy explanation is an attempt at theodicy, an explanation for evil, but it is contrary to Scripture, and is, as I have said before, more akin to Gnosticism than Christianity. That does not surprise me as meta-conspiracy theories are just modern forms of Gnosticism.

My point however is that as Christians we do not need a conspiracy theory to explain the current fad of gay marriage.
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May 24, 2015 10:05am
wiseowl

PG is hibernating.
Winter has set in down south.
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May 24, 2015 10:10am
SGA

stephieboy at 9:07 am

SGA, can we assume that you are opposed to womens suffrage and instead keeping them confined to the home ?

huh? What on earth lead you to that assumption?
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May 24, 2015 10:15am
Huevon

A foreshadowing of things to come if the raging mob at Skycity on Friday and their allies in Labour/Greens get into power….

The 13 Pillars of the Patriotic Agenda of Bicentenary 2025 of a Dignified and Sovereign Bolivia…(translation courtesy of huevon)…
1. Eradication of Extreme Poverty
2. Socialisation and Universalisation of the Basic Services with Sovereignty in order to Live Well
3. Health, Education and Sport for the Formation of the Integrated Human Being
4. Scientific and Technological Sovereignty with a Bolivian Identity
5. Communal Financial Sovereignty without servility to financial capitalism
6. Productive Sovereignty with Diversification and Integrated Development without the Dictatorship of the Capitalist Market
7. Sovereignty over our Natural Resources with Nationalisation, Industrialisation and Commercialisation in Harmony and Equilibrium with Mother Earth
8. Food Sovereignty through the Construction of Knowing How to Eat So That You Live Well
9. Environmental Sovereignty with Integrated Development, Respecting the Rights of the Mother Earth
10. Complementary Integration with the [Indigenous] Peoples with Sovereignty
11. Sovereignty and Transparency in Public Administration under the Principles of Don’t Steal, Don’t Lie and Don’t be a Lazy Person
12. Full Enjoyment and Happiness of Our Parties, of Our Music, Our Rivers, Our Jungle, Our Hills, Our Snowy Mountains, of Our Clean Air, and of Our Dreams
13. Sovereign Reclamation of Our Joy, Happiness, Prosperity and Our Ocean

Promulgated by the President of Bolivia

http://comunicacion.presidencia.gob.bo/docprensa/pdf/20130123-11-36-55.pdf
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May 24, 2015 10:16am
Reid

“What do you make of the symbolism rampant throughout the UN’s building?”

Examples please ?

The only religious room in the UN is called the Meditation Room and it has some very odd and esoteric symbolism in it. It’s administered by an organisation called the Lucis Trust. It used to be called the Lucifer Trust but I guess the evil ones figured that even the sheeple might one day figure that one out so they changed the name. Anyway, you can look up the symbolism in the Meditation Room anywhere you like, but here’s an interesting take on the Lucis Trust. However one assumes that hardly anyone here will be able actually to read the article, since in the first couple of paras it make a reference to Makow’s site, and that will no doubt send many of you spinning off into the vortex of hysteria and hallucination, rendering you incapable of understanding anything at all, including the content of the actual article itself.

Just FYI in advance, I won’t be responding to critiques that reference the credentials of the site itself, I consider those invalid so all I’ll be responding to is comments that discuss aspects of the linked article below. So don’t take silence on the former responses as an indication you’ve made a point, because you haven’t. As far as I’m concerned, if you respond with a critique like that, you’re not even talking to the point I’ve just made, so why bother responding to you.

http://www.christianvoice.org.uk/index.php/bill-gates-and-the-lucis-trust/

BTW, quite agree EAD re: your all over the Western world point. Thing these people don’t get, is why isn’t the same movement breaking out simultaneously anywhere else in the non-Western world.

Also have a look at this: re:Rockefeller generally

http://vigilantcitizen.com/sinistersites/sinister-sites-rockefeller-center/
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May 24, 2015 10:17am
Dave_1924

@KeepingStock – I think Mr George is trying to get yournz moving, seems to be more posts over there lately

Speaking of blogs WOBH seems to be morphing into John Key has had his turn, be a good fellow and let Auntie Judith have a turn as leader blog…..
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May 24, 2015 10:17am
stephieboy

OneTrack,

“This is where my problem comes with the progressive agenda. You aren’t allowed to disagree with them.”

Fatuous nonsense ! What are you doing on this thread exactly ??

EAD, if you quote David Rockefeller then please source it so we can consider both accuracy , background and context !

OMG with Reid it just gets worse and worse . No just insane !

And the UN is a gigantic communist Plot re John Birch Society ??
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May 24, 2015 10:19am
Nookin

The absence of accreditation suggests that you put all that together, yourself Huevon. What shit have you been smoking this morning?
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May 24, 2015 10:20am
jcuk

eszett (2,683 comments) says:
May 24th, 2015 at 9:27 am
Do you seriously think homosexual marriage came about because society wants homosexual to get married?

It came about because society sees no reason not to allow them to get married.

The point is what do you mean by marriage …I have no problem with them shacking up together but marriage is more than that and involves conception and homosexuals cannot do that however good they are a raising other peoples children.
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May 24, 2015 10:22am
Dennis Horne

eszett, if people cared about marriage as an institution they wouldn’t be cajoled and bullied into watering it down to mean ‘happy couple’.

Very few homosexual will get married. Whatever they do won’t make any difference to society. They can’t breed.

Marriage between men and women is an entirely different matter. What they do is paramount to society.
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May 24, 2015 10:23am
Shawn Herles

“huh? What on earth lead you to that assumption?”

The same thing that leads stephie to the assumption that if you disagree with Obama it’s because you hate black people and want to go back to slavery.

While he does so from a liberal pov, stephie is sometimes prone to the same kind of hysteria that EAD and Reid are prone to (not to mention a certain fella who has his own blog and is currently on holiday from kb).
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May 24, 2015 10:24am
Griff

why isn’t it anywhere else in the non-Western world.

Because they are still trapped by the religus nuttwhackery the enlightenment began the journey to free us from.
Conservative Christians are only slightly better than the Taliban.
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May 24, 2015 10:25am
EAD

I did quote the source Stupidboy when I said – “What do you make of David Rockefeller who is is book Memoirs wrote the following:”

http://www.goodreads.com/author/quotes/9951.David_Rockefeller

Quick question Stephie – why do Big Government worshippers like yourself, MM, Shaun Herles, Griff etc. spend all your time attacking the sources of what I write rather than the points raised?
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May 24, 2015 10:27am
Shawn Herles

Well, we have had far Right hysteria, Liberal hysteria, and now atheist hysteria, and all before midday! 🙂

Must be time to get to church. By folks.
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May 24, 2015 10:28am
Reid

I have no problem with them shacking up together but marriage is more than that and involves conception and homosexuals cannot do that however good they are a raising other peoples children.

Marriage actually means family jcuk.

It’s the separation of the acts of procreation and raising children from the concept of marriage which means commitment and sacrifice, that the evil ones have been aiming at.

Gay marriage is just one of the last in the long line of planks.

The first was the encouragement of sex outside marriage which began in the first WW and became rampant in the second. I’m not of course suggesting that is why the evil ones started both of those, although the evil ones did start both of them. No of course I’m not suggesting that was the motivation, it was simply a side-benefit to promote the agenda they have always had. The next stop along the way was the pill and the penultimate prior to gay marriage was no-fault divorce. All of those actions were sold to the sheeple as human wights advances and all of them had but one aim, to degrade to the point of destruction the integrity of the family unit as the individuals strongest support mechanism to which they would always turn in times of crisis.

The evil ones want to destroy that for various reasons and to replace the family with the state playing that role. Sound familiar? Of course it does, communism was overt about that being its aim. What’s happened in Western societies is the evil ones have gone underground and put lipstik on their pigs in the form of human wights, it’s all about human wights, boo hoo hoo, won’t someone think of the poor widdle human wights victims. And sometimes its women and sometimes its blacks or Asians or Muslims or immigrants and sometimes its gays. But they’re always poor and downtwodden and just cwying out for justice in the sea of hatwed and enmity and won’t someone anyone help the poor widdle victims.

And all the idiot sheeple go maaaaaa, maaaaaa and fall for it, every single fucking time,

Fuck they’re dumb.
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May 24, 2015 10:32am
Dennis Horne

Tell you what, let’s redefine buses to include trucks. They’re very similar: big, heavy and carry things.

Good luck catching a truck at your local bus stop.

Hey, let’s redefine marriage to mean, well, let me think … shagging your best friend.

Are dogs man’s best friend?
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May 24, 2015 10:34am
mikenmild

Reid thinks sex outside marriage is a modern invention. And prattling on about the ‘evil ones’. Don’t you ever get tired of bullshitting?
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May 24, 2015 10:36am
Reid

Don’t you ever get tired of bullshitting?

Don’t you ever get tired of pretending to always miss the point of every single thing that ever been said by anyone mm?

I mean, surely no-one can possibly be as dumb as that.

It’s just unpossible.

So you’re kidding, right?

All I can say is, you’re bloody lucky you work in govt, because I tell ya mate, no-one else would put up with having your brain on the job, even if it was just cleaning the washroom.
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May 24, 2015 10:38am
EAD

Reid 10.32

It’s the old saying – you can lead a horse to water but you can’t make them drink.

The galloping mentalism is at its worst whenever the Holocau$t™ is raised. I mean if it was as bad as we’re told to believe, then why didn’t the Allies go bomb Auschwitz when they first heard about it in 1942?

Either it was nowhere near as bad as what the movies painted it or perhaps there was a need to let it keep running so certain objectives could be achieved after the war had ended.

And if you don’t believe in “conspiracies” (which is just another name for a veil of silence) – how on earth did 45,000 people keep the Manhattan Project a secret?
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May 24, 2015 10:40am
eszett

Dennis Horne (3,000 comments) says:
May 24th, 2015 at 9:42 am
Tell me, eszett, how long have you been married?

Why is that relevant, Dennis?

How long have you been homosexual to have an opinion on homosexuality?
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May 24, 2015 10:42am
Reid

You and I know that EAD, but you realise you’ve just triggered galloping hysteria of biblical proportion, hallucinating you’ve just committed the crime of the century, much worse than this joker who killed Blessie, you’ve just – gasp – denied the holocaust.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now I know you haven’t, but most of the commenters here will now go absolutely totally mental with nothing other than this topic occupying them in their raging hysteria, all day long.

It’s an interesting psychological phenomena isn’t it. Let’s wait and see what happens next.
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May 24, 2015 10:44am
mikenmild

EAD flirts with holocaust denial again. What a guy.
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May 24, 2015 10:45am
Reid

How long have you been homosexual to have an opinion on homosexuality?

Why are gays the only ones allowed to have an opinion on gay marriage, eszett?

And mm’s the first off the block, famously missing the entire point, yet again.
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May 24, 2015 10:46am
Viking2

A mother was teaching her child about the side-effects of alcohol. She gets two short glasses, filling one with water and the other with whiskey. She says “I want you to see this.” She puts a worm in the water, and it swims around. She puts a worm in the whiskey, and the worm dies immediately. She then says, feeling that she has made her point clear, “What do you have to say about this experiment?”
The child responds by saying: “If I drink whiskey, I won’t get worms!”
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May 24, 2015 10:51am
eszett

Dennis Horne (3,000 comments) says:
May 24th, 2015 at 9:54 am
The essence of marriage has been, since time immemorial, copulation and raising children, in the general case.

This has been a fundamental activity since life evolved. A special relationship between men and women.

Actually, this is not true. Marriage has been a lot of things, amongst them certainly the aspect of having and raising children.
But marriage is not essential to that nor is having children essential to marriage.

Marriage has changed throughout the centuries and societies.

This is but another small change.

And why are couples over 50 allowed to marry than or couples who cannot conceive children? Or do not want to conceive children.
You are demeaning all these marriages as “irrelevant to society” only in order to have a flimsy arguement against gay marriage.

Homosexual relationships are special relationships between men and men, and women and women. Inherently concepts different from what has always been understood as marriage.

Not at all. It is entirely the same concept. It is about two people loving each other and commiting to each other.

Marriage has now been redefined and, as such, ‘marriage’ is no longer marriage. The word has changed but the concepts have not.

Nonsense. It has been broadened to include homosexual, nothing more, nothing less. Marriage still means marriage.
You are allowed to not accept gay marriage as marriage, but, to use your own words, your opinion is becoming more and more irrelevant to society.

In 20 years time people will look back and shake their heads in disbelieve at your stance, just as you look back now and shake your head in disbelieve at all the opponents of inter-racial marriage.
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May 24, 2015 10:51am
Reid

The worst part about it is you’re not even allowed to debate the issue. And if that clear and present fact doesn’t indicate to you there’s something going on, then what the hell is wrong with your mind?

Personally it’s not a subject I’ve ever looked into, so I don’t have an opinion on it, but here’s a 2015 doco from German TV, and I bet most of you who hysterically berate EAD or myself for daring to have the temerity even to discuss the topic, would not even watch this, before you start slinging your hate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPa_QeV9KDM&feature=youtu.be
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May 24, 2015 10:53am
eszett

Why are gays the only ones allowed to have an opinion on gay marriage, eszett?

Never said that they did, reid. In fact I believe that everyone has a right to have an opinion on marriage.

But Dennis seems to think only married people have the right to that opinion. I was merely answering him.
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May 24, 2015 10:54am
OneTrack

stephie – “Fatuous nonsense ! What are you doing on this thread exactly ??”

I haven’t refused to bake a cake or make a pizza for a progressive(or some other “hate-crime” that can be manufactured) yet. The people that have done so are regretting it. Or their ex-employees are, or both. I think we both know what the likely result would be if I did, backed up by overseas examples after the progressive media went hunting for “outrage”

If I had made the same comment above, on one or two progressive web sites I can think of, I would have been banned. I am just lucky that DPF is a liberal, not a progressive. He allows alternative views.

My likely “hate-crime”(tm) and downfall will be disagreeing with AGW. It has already been suggested by some that that should be a jail-able offence. Just another example of inconvenient thoughts that the progressive agenda wants to stamp out, because logic isn’t working.
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May 24, 2015 10:55am
Dennis Horne

But, eszett, I haven’t expressed an opinion on homosexuality this morning have I? I don’t know anything about it, first hand!

I know something about marriage.

The first 40 years are the worst. 🙂 🙂 🙂

Actually, eszett, you can have an opinion on anything you like, of course.

Anything else you have no experience of you want to tell me about?
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May 24, 2015 10:55am
All_on_Red

Amusing interview with an Irishman on same sex marriage.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=y9cSq8bqFaM
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May 24, 2015 10:56am
eszett

Hey, let’s redefine marriage to mean, well, let me think … shagging your best friend.

Hey, you are the one claiming that marriage is nothing but a contract to copulate. Not me.
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May 24, 2015 10:56am
mikenmild

So Reid just happens to link to a statement from a notorious holocaust denier, but ‘it’s not a subject I’ve ever looked into, so I don’t have an opinion on it’.
All made up by the Jews, of course.
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May 24, 2015 11:00am
EAD

Didn’t take long did it Reid!

Poor ol MM straight out with the slander for daring to raise a logical question.

I can tell you the type of person MM is vs. EAD.

MM – likes high taxes (especially when others are paying them) and there is no nobler thing than when the likes of him are dishing them out to favoured groups. Champagne Socialist who in his mind is on the side of Angels. Thinks everything taught by the State is the unimpeachable truth.

EAD – hates the State (he sees it as forced collectivism) and does everything possible to pay minimal taxes. Generous with his own money to help people in need and who don’t have an agenda (I.e. foodbanks, veterans associations, some elderly charities). Thinks the things taught by the State is a mixture of truths, half truths and outright lies to serve an agenda (think early NZ history) so questions everything.
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May 24, 2015 11:01am
Scott Chris

Tell you what, let’s redefine buses to include trucks

Dennis, the definition of marriage changes as society changes.

Ask Solomon, Abraham, Jacob, Isaac, David and Moses:

To them Marriage was a sacred contract ‘twixt a man and his wives until those progressive monogamists came along and shat all over the institution.
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May 24, 2015 11:02am
Maggy Wassilieff

Marriage is inherently tied up with property and rights over medical treatment for partners (spouses).
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May 24, 2015 11:03am
waikatogirl

All that talk above of the perfect marriage –
it was interesting to note in the budget that the Government has written off $170 billion dollars of unpaid child support by ‘deadbeat’ dads because they didnt respond to requests/interest imposed by IRD.

Wow, surely something stronger than forgiveness can be imposed on these fathers who refuse to pay for the children they are responsible for. I know this is a hornets nest with plenty of excuses from some of those dads, but they won’t even front and take responsibility by responding to IRD.

I wonder if our business could get away with not paying the mountain of tax charged to us by IRD, yippee!!!!
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May 24, 2015 11:03am
J Bloggs

The galloping mentalism is at its worst whenever the Holocau$t™ is raised. I mean if it was as bad as we’re told to believe, then why didn’t the Allies go bomb Auschwitz when they first heard about it in 1942?

Ok, treating this as a serious question:

Apart from the fact that bombing concentration camps is not really an effective way of helping the people within them

1) Auschwitz was beyond the range of most of the bomber forces available to the western allies.
2) It wasn’t a significant military target to justify the resources that would have been required to attack it (or the losses that would have been incurred).
3) The problem wasn’t jsut Auschwitz, there were dozens of camps all over Europe – it would have been impractical and a waste of resources to attack all of them
4) The reality was no one in the western allies really appreciated just how bad it was until the allied ground forces in 1944-45 started liberating the camps and seeing with thier own eyes what had gone on within.

Ultimately, the best way of helping those in the camps was to overthrow the Nazi regime as quickly as possible. A simple matter of keeping the overall strategic goal in mind, rather than getting distracted with side adventures
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May 24, 2015 11:04am
mikenmild

That’s nice EAD. But you were about to tell us the real story behind the holocaust. Perhaps you’d care to enlarge on your views there?
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May 24, 2015 11:05am
Dennis Horne

Tell me, eszett, if the essence of marriage hasn’t been copulation and child rearing, since time immemorial, why haven’t we seen other forms before now.

Like marrying your mother?

Homosexuals always point to the infertile marriage, as if it negates the essence of marriage in the general case.

Tell me, is a Reliant Robin a car? It has only three wheels. I mean, cars have four wheels, don’t they? If the Robin is a car, my Mecedes can’t be a car…

Actually, I have to go and fix the indicators, after nearly 40 years something’s wrong. Fucked. Oops, another meaning of a word … how confusing.

Love and masturbation and buggery do not a marriage make.
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May 24, 2015 11:07am
G152

Now all the Irish have to do is throw out the Catholic religion
and they’ll be a grown up society..
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May 24, 2015 11:09am
Jack5

More from the Ministry for Multiculturalism:

http://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2015/may/23/vietnam-children-trafficking-nail-bar-cannabis
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May 24, 2015 11:13am
Dennis Horne

@Scott Chris. Of course the notion of marriage changes.

But it’s never included homosexual acts.

Now it does. That’s a fundamental change. Look up fundament.
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May 24, 2015 11:13am
eszett

Homosexuals always point to the infertile marriage, as if it negates the essence of marriage in the general case.

Not homosexuals, you are the one that keeps bring up this point.

If you claim that essence of marriage is only to copulate and raise children, then it is the logical consequence that all unions that do not produce children are not “marriage.”

You are the one making that statement! Not me, not homosexuals, you.

If you say there are cases where bearing children is not essential to marriage then that argument also applies to gay marriage.

Besides, homosexual couples are bearing and raising quite a lot of children these days, quite happily so. Adoption, IVF, surrogates, all options available to them.
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May 24, 2015 11:14am

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