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May 15, 2015 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 15 May 2015

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Nostradamus

Nasska:

It’s just that “considered opinions” don’t count for much around these parts.

Yes – my “considered opinion” (which took all of two milliseconds) is that your “considered opinion” (which probably took you all of two hours) is rubbish 🙂
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May 15, 2015 6:19pm
wiseowl

Kowtow
How Judd was ever elected to his position is amazing.
The fact he is going to the UN over this should be a worry to everyone as it questions our own democracy.
He cannot accept the overwhelming result of a referendum (makes me think of others) and from his response he should resign if he cannot represent Taranaki ratepayers.

Full marks to the ratepayers of Mew plymouth!
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May 15, 2015 6:34pm
Manolo

Didn’t Labour lite promise to get rid of the anachronistic Maori seats? Ah, the feeble memory of the spineless.
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May 15, 2015 6:39pm
wikiriwhis business

Max Keiser TV: Max talks to George Galloway about #GE2015 results

Conversation includes Conservative majority; Ukip’s big win in terms of vote (4 million) which resulted in only one seat; proportional representation, Scottish independence and EU referendum.

Cameron states citizens think simply obeying the law and we’ll leave you alone is not enough anymore

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSshFZYuAjw&feature=em-subs_digest
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May 15, 2015 6:40pm
wikiriwhis business

Stephen Hawking Agrees With Alex Jones
Renowned professor warns of artificial intelligence takeover

In late April Stephen Hawking said in a televised speech that humanity had 1,000 years to get off the planet or it would cease to exist. Alex Jones offered a rebuttal the next day saying that with all that is going on in the world we had closer to 50 years. Just two days later Hawking came back and said we had about 100 years before AI would become our overlords. It seems as if Hawking has become more Jonesish in his outlook for humanity.

http://www.infowars.com/stephen-hawking-agrees-with-alex-jones/
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May 15, 2015 6:42pm
mikenmild

Alex Jones agreeing with Stephen Hawking could be an example of the stopped clock.
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May 15, 2015 6:43pm
Nostradamus

Mikenmild:

Alex Jones agreeing with Stephen Hawking could be an example of the stopped clock.

No – the other way round according to the article wikiriwhis business linked to – Stephen Hawking agrees with Alex Jones!
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May 15, 2015 6:44pm
wellygirl

“Do you think you could have personal opinions, weighed opinions or even indulge in rampant speculation.

It’s just that “considered opinions” don’t count for much around these parts”

Fair call, though does it count if it was designed to take the piss?

And just for you Nasska, 😉

My personal opinion is that the anatomy of Graham McCready makes him a male, and my rampant speculation is that he is not much of a man.
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May 15, 2015 6:45pm
Jacob

Graham McCready’s actions must at some point rest on the argument that he is acting in some way for Amanda Bailey.
Amanda Bailey, through Unite or whatever media agency, has indicated she does not want anything to do with McCready, albeit him act on her behalf.
Absolutely simple – it should end there.
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May 15, 2015 6:49pm
Steve (North Shore)

wellygirl,

My personal opinion is that the anatomy of Graham McCready makes him a male, and my rampant speculation is that he is not much of a man.

He is a Wimp that needs Walloping – a book I remember
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May 15, 2015 6:51pm
wiseowl

Another example of government decisions passed on to councils, passed on to ratepayers, costing unnecessary dollars.
Anew subdivision in Nelson requires houses to be built on platforms because of predicted sea level rise!!!!!!

FFS.
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May 15, 2015 6:58pm
Dave_1924

RIP BB ….
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OzGOg5cYW5w
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May 15, 2015 7:09pm
Reid

Anew subdivision in Nelson requires houses to be built on platforms because of predicted sea level rise!!!!!!

Perhaps they got some special advice from Len before coming up with that one.

I wonder if it ever occurred to the council in their deliberations to calculate what precisely would be the point of having the house high and dry if all the surrounding streets and other infrastructure was underwater. Not to mention the probable lack of demand for anyone wanting to actually live there in the first place, thus making the value close to zero, thus making rates setting not to mention collection slightly problematic.
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May 15, 2015 7:14pm
wikiriwhis business

ANOTHER 100,000 children in Scotland will be plunged into extreme poverty as a result of the Tories’ £12 billion “absolutely outrageous” welfare cuts, Alex Neil has warned.

The Social Justice Minister insisted David Cameron’s plans to hammer the most vulnerable in society will be a horror story for Scotland and create the worst child poverty crisis in history.

Neil spoke to The National about his grave concerns as the Tories plough ahead with their ruthless austerity agenda, targeting children, poor and disabled people with a further slash on welfare spending.

http://www.thenational.scot/news/100000-more-children-will-be-pushed-into-poverty-if-we-let-tories-implement-12bn-cuts.2958
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May 15, 2015 7:16pm
Manolo

Nobody will ever believe that fantasy, wiki.
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May 15, 2015 7:19pm
nasska

Since Local Bodies copped the responsibilities for leaky buildings they are covering their arses against each & every risk Reid…..it matters not how stupid or petty or unlikely.

LG bureaucracy will never again be accused of a light handed approach.
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May 15, 2015 7:21pm
mikenmild

I note from DPF’s advertising that someone in Vietnam thinks I’m cute and wants to date me. Makes me feel quite special.
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May 15, 2015 7:22pm
wikiriwhis business

Robert Reich Eviscerates Right-Wing Lies on Social Security and Explains Why It Should Be Expanded
The former Labor Secretary breaks down why you should ignore right-wing scare tactics on Social Security .

For the past 30 years, scores of conservative and centrist think tanks, pundits and propagandists have worked hard to convince people that Social Security is “running out of money” and that in order to “save” it we must cut benefits or raise the retirement age. Like most right-wing “starve the beast” approaches, the assault on our social safety net is based on a mixture of misinformation, scare tactics and downright shoddy math.

To counter this and other far-right memes, Robert Reich, in partnership with MoveOn.org, has created a series of pretty cool explainer videos that do a great job breaking down why so much of our economic conventional wisdom is wrong. In the latest video, Reich explains why getting rid of the cap on Social Security taxes—a feature that has billionaires paying the same Social Security taxes as someone making $118,000 a year—is a long-overdue corrective that can not only preserve Social Security but radically expand and improve it.

http://www.alternet.org/robert-reich-eviscerates-right-wing-lies-social-security-and-explains-why-it-should-be-expanded#.VVV7qp6SpmE.facebook
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May 15, 2015 7:24pm
nasska

Romance is in the air! 🙂
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May 15, 2015 7:25pm
Nostradamus

Mikenmild:

I note from DPF’s advertising that someone in Vietnam thinks I’m cute and wants to date me. Makes me feel quite special.

Maybe she misread “public servant” as “pubic servant”?
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May 15, 2015 7:26pm
wf

I think Mr McCreedy is sliding into dementia.
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May 15, 2015 7:26pm
nasska

She’s after his money Nostra…..word’s got out about the incredible salaries enjoyed by NZ public servants. 🙂
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May 15, 2015 7:28pm
Reid

Since Local Bodies copped the responsibilities for leaky buildings they are covering their arses against each & every risk Reid…..it matters not how stupid or petty or unlikely.

You know what happened in Akld re: the leaky buildings nasska, as told to me by a building inspector of many years?

That when it raised its head all the inspectors knew precisely what was happening and couldn’t believe the architects and the big building firms were going along with it and discussed it with their managers.

However their managers, as often happens, were being advised by one of the big six consulting firms at the time, and they had a group of very wise and astute 20-somethings in suits sitting there 12 hours a day drawing up fancy process maps and every now and then one of the partners would come along with a slick powerpoint and all the managers of the council building inspectors would sit their with mouths agape at the powerful wisdom that flowed therefrom re: the increased productivity that would accrue if only they did it this new recommended way instead of the old, old fashioned and outdated way.

And the rest is history.

True story.
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May 15, 2015 7:30pm
nasska

I don’t doubt that true it is Reid.

I also remember that the Greens & assorted tree huggers were pressuring hard for the discontinuation of timber treatments. That, shoddy design & over-hyped sealants made the cock up inevitable…..it was a perfect storm.
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May 15, 2015 7:34pm
Reid

The issue for me nasska is Akld would not be the only council where that happened.

And where are the lawsuits to take advantage of the massive, massive liability insurance those big six consulting companies carry, for precisely this sort of contingency. Which is one of the reasons the managers always give for employing these arseholes in the first place, over smaller boutique consultants who’d give a better result for half the price.

Where are they?

Or is it that when the shit hits the fan, it’s all about profits having long since been privatised why there’s nothing for it but for the losses to be socialised? This is how it works, in the brotherhood?

Is that why there’s been no repeat no repeat absolutely zero action on that front?
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May 15, 2015 7:39pm
Sir Leslie Bottocks

NZ Music Month.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94VPjSBH4Kk
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May 15, 2015 7:42pm
Nookin

Earlier this afternoon there were a number of comments suggesting that Penny and McCready were not above using someone, against their will to pursue their own vindictive ends.

The following extracts from an early case demonstrate that this is not a recently acquired trait.

“[27] The Court is aware that Ms Bright is cast in the role of a leading light in a political campaign concerning payment for water and associated services mounted by what is known as the Water Pressure Group. And the Court recognises the democratic right of that group and its members to pursue its objectives when and as best they legitimately can.
[28] However, matters that properly affect the outcome of proceedings which here simply concern a claim of breach of contract.
[29]Reading Ms Bright’s first affidavit (dated 4 April 2008) one might be forgiven for thinking that there has been a misguided attempt to use this proceeding for political ends; that with a cost to the individual defendants in this proceeding in that, the Court might well infer, they were deflected from offering any timeous and effective response to the claim by the belief that Ms Bright would somehow be able to achieve an extra-curial resolution for them with her campaigning, the nature of which is identified in her just-mentioned affidavit.”
“[35] Another matter raised in the letter of 22 April concerned my presiding (as scheduled by the registry) on the application.
[36] I will now turn to and deal with that before expressing the reasons for the judgment at which I arrive on the application itself.
[37] In her 22 April letter to the court manager, the second defendant said, amongst other things:
“Please also be advised that because the water pressure group which I am a member previously made a judicial complaint against Judge Joyce over his ruling on Metrowater matters and WPG members. Please be respectfully advised that, in getting a fair hearing, we will not be heard by him.”
[38] A compendious document was apparently brought into the court by Ms Bright on 24 April. What the second defendant describes as a “judicial complaint” appears in fact to relate to that document. It is one that came to my attention sometime in, I think, 2004.
[39] The contents of this document are such as lead me respectfully to decline to endow it with any comment.
[40] It suffices to say that, having regard to conventional principles in this area, I cannot recognise in it any rational basis for recusal.”
“[67] One last word on the whole matter. I observe, without prejudging the merits, that based on what is before the Court right now, and not forgetting some of my misgivings about the third defendant, the likelihood of the true defendant/s having an effective defence seems rather remote.
[68] If, in fact, there is no arguably effective defence then to continue to fight off the inevitable can only lead to increased costs, soon likely to become highly disproportionate to what is at stake.
[69] I therefore urge the second defendant and her daughter to, if at all possible, get independent and qualified legal advice before filing a defence. For it could very easily be that the better course would be for them to negotiate a scheme for payment with the plaintiff.
[70] I also note here that Ms Bright is not acceptable to the court as an “agent” for the defendant/s.
[71] When it comes to Metrowater and its customers she is not a disinterested party and, with respect, might well be said to have already meddled in this matter in a fashion adverse to the litigation (as opposed perhaps to any political) interests of the defendant/s.”
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May 15, 2015 7:43pm
wikiriwhis business

The Real Junk Food ‘revolution’ growing day-by-day: Social cafe movement fed more people in first three months of 2015 than all of last year

Adam Smith, founder of the The Real Junk Food Project, and his growing empire of social cafes fed somewhere in the region of 21,300 people in the first three months of this year – using 35 tonnes of food which otherwise would have been thrown away by supermarkets, wholesalers and independent grocers.

In a food waste “revolution” gathering pace every day, and following the result of the general election, Mr Smith expects the number of Real Junk Cafe joints to have increased by more than 400% by the end of the year, from 47 in December to 250, mainly in the UK but also around the world.

The altruistic ‘pay as you feel’ movement started to gain real traction last year after it was set up by Mr Smith, from Armley, Leeds, in a bid to prevent food waste – and the whirlwind growth appears to show no sign of slowing down.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/the-real-junk-food-revolution-growing-daybyday-social-cafe-movement-fed-more-people-in-first-three-months-of-2015-than-all-of-last-year-10250151.html

An example for you key board Kiwibloggers
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May 15, 2015 7:45pm
wikiriwhis business

“Nobody will ever believe that fantasy, wiki.”

Five years of Tories (and look at Thatchers havoc) plus TPP on top of all that

Your rhetoric will be dead ….as a parrot
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May 15, 2015 7:49pm
Shawn Herles

The only thing dead as a parrot is wiki’s beloved far Left. Galloway, the leader of the National Socialist Left and a Jew hating terrorist supporter is gone and Parliament can now be disinfected from the stench he left behind. British and NZ Labour are a joke and neither of them seem capable of winning elections. Center-Right parties in power in Britain, Aus, Canada and NZ, and Republicans on a roll in the US.

So all wiki has is leftist fantasies and mindless tin foil hat silliness.

I think the mainstream Right is looking good, especially considering the, ahem….”quality” of our opponents and their arguments.
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May 15, 2015 8:00pm
ngatimozart

China has no legitimate claim to any of the Spratley Islands yet it us spending millions of dollars reclaiming land on atolls there and forcing away vessels non Chinese vessels and aircraft in clear contravention of international law. It has signed the corresponding agreements and therefore acknowledged its duty to abide by them. Any claims that China has to these islands is spurious at best and it is ramping up the tension within South East Asia and points further afield. It impacts upon us because a significant amount of our trade transits the region and this includes our energy supply = oil.
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May 15, 2015 8:11pm
Shawn Herles

Why America Was Indispensable to the Allies’ Winning World War II

“he pre-war Soviet state in the 1920s and 1930s had killed perhaps 20 million of its own citizens in purges, exiles, collectivizations, forced famines, and show trials. Then it lost an estimated 25 million soldiers and civilians to the German army on the Eastern Front. Hitler’s Germany by late 1942 had occupied almost 1 million square miles of Soviet ground. The Soviet Red Army would eventually be responsible for three quarters of Germany’s WWII casualties, but at a cost of approximately 9 million dead of its own combatants. Nevertheless, the Allied defeat of the Axis powers is more complicated than just the monumental and heroic sacrifice of the Soviet soldier. World War II started largely because the Soviet Union had had assured Hitler that the two powers could partner up to divide Poland. With his eastern rear thus secure, Hitler then would be free to fight a one-front war in the West against the European democracies. The Soviet Union only entered the war after it was double-crossed by Hitler in June 1941. Before the surprise German invasion, the Soviets had supplied Germany with substantial fuel, food and metals to help it bomb Great Britain into submission. For all practical purposes, Russia had been Nazi Germany’s most useful ally.

Once the United States entered the war after the attack on Pearl Harbor, the Axis cause was largely doomed. America mobilized 12 million soldiers — about the same number as did the Soviet Union, despite having a population of about 40 million fewer citizens. American war production proved astonishing. At the huge Willow Run plant in Michigan, the greatest generation turned out a B-24 heavy bomber every hour. A single shipyard could mass-produce an ocean-going Liberty merchant ship from scratch in a week. In just four years, the United States would produce more airplanes than all of the major war powers combined. Germany, Japan, Italy, and the Soviet Union could not build a successful four-engine heavy bomber. America, in contrast, produced 34,000 excellent B-17s, B-24s, and B-29s. By 1944, the new U.S. Navy had become the largest in the history of civilization at more than 6,000 ships. Its B-29 heavy bomber program and Manhattan Project efforts together cost more $50 billion in today’s dollars. America sent troops throughout the Pacific islands, and to North Africa, Italy, and Western Europe. The United States staged two simultaneous bombing campaigns against Germany and Japan while conducting surface and submarine campaigns against all of the Axis powers. At the same time, the U.S. supplied the Soviet Union with 400,000 heavy trucks, 2,000 locomotives, 11,000 railcars, and billions of dollars worth of planes, tanks, food, clothing, and strategic resources. By 1943–44, the U.S. also supplied about 20 percent of Britain’s munitions. If the measure of wartime success is defined by quickly defeating and humiliating enemies at the least cost in blood and treasure, then America waged a brilliant war.

Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/418329/why-america-was-indispensable-allies-winning-world-war-ii-victor-davis-hanson
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May 15, 2015 8:19pm
Shawn Herles

How to Explain the U.K.’s Conservative Wave?

Big surprises in Thursday’s British election. For weeks, the pre-election polls showed a statistical tie in popular votes between Prime Minister David Cameron’s Conservative party and the Labour opposition led by Ed Miliband. It was universally agreed that neither party could reach a 326-vote majority in the House of Commons. A prominent British political website projected that Conservatives would get 280 seats and Labour 274. But the exit poll, released when voting ended at 10 p.m., projected Conservatives with 316 seats and Labour with only 239. It showed the Scottish Nationalist Party (SNP) sweeping 58 of Scotland’s 59 seats and the Liberal Democrats, the Conservatives’ coalition partners for five years, reduced from the 57 seats they won in 2010 to ten this time. That turned out to be pretty close to the mark. The main error was that even this underestimated the Conservative wave.

Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/418229/how-explain-uks-conservative-wave-michael-barone
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May 15, 2015 8:21pm
Andrei

More horse radish from Shawn

Dill brain the Nazis were defeated at the Battle of Moscow before the USA had even entered the war

The Nazis were defeated at Stalingrad, the biggest battle in the history of mankind before the USA had entered the European theatre which they did a month or so after that victory by fighting the Vichy French in North Africa

And the battle of Kursk where the eventual Nazi defeat was assured came long before any American set foot on mainland European soil
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May 15, 2015 8:35pm
nasska

Auckland Police report finding a man’s body in the harbour. The dead man’s name will not be released until his family has been notified. The victim apparently drowned due to excessive beer consumption. He was wearing black fishnet stockings, a red garter belt, a pink G-string, a strap-on dildo, purple lipstick, and had ‘I voted for Colin Craig & the NZ Conservatives’ on his T-shirt. He also had a cucumber stuffed up his rectum. The police removed the Colin Craig T-shirt to spare his family any unnecessary embarrassment.
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May 15, 2015 9:02pm
EAD

@Weihana 2.35pm,

nice to see that you read the adverts but what were your thoughts on the the argument presented in the article itself?

Has rational wiki got anything to say about the website that might further back your rebuttal up? 🙂
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May 15, 2015 9:02pm
Reid

nasska you’ve asked from time to time, who are “they.” I’ve given you this various times, I’ll give you a detailed link tomorrow which will name names and families.

But here’s a taster of the organisations and structures they use, more tomorrow.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHjh5JzqiTs
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May 15, 2015 9:08pm
EAD

“Is it any wonder that fewer people these days are willing to trust the US federal government or their American leader President Obama? The citizen furor over the highly controversial Jade Helm 15 military operation scheduled for two months this summer (July 15-September 15) in all four US Border States with Mexico plus Utah and Nevada is well grounded.

Despite mainstream media and war mongers like Senator John McCainmocking and ridiculing those behind the ongoing uproar as mere paranoid conspiracy nutcases, a closer look at the nonstop lies flowing out of Washington provides every justifiable reason for Americans’ suspicion that the feds are up to no good in the Southwest.

Many US citizens have come to recognize that their civil liberties and constitutional rights since 9/11 have completely vanished under the ever-darkening cloud of tyranny usurped by the insidiously false pretense of national security”

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2015/05/13/us-governments-pathological-lies/
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May 15, 2015 9:08pm
Reid

EAD have you heard Leighton Smith on Newstalk ZB talk about the Fed and the ECB?

Creating money out of nothing.

He knows.

And he talks about it. He made reference to it again, only today. He raises it quite often.

Wonder how people who don’t know but think Leighton’s pretty terrif, reconcile that?

Who cares really, it’s a shame we even need to ask the question, isn’t it.

I mean anyone who doesn’t know has to be a real …, don’t they.
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May 15, 2015 9:16pm
Scott Chris

I also remember that the Greens & assorted tree huggers were pressuring hard for the discontinuation of timber treatments.

Not this tree hugger. Chromated copper arsenate is a lot safer than it sounds – as long as you don’t burn it. Quite a good Wikipedia article on it – seems public pressure in North America actually got it banned:

A number of countries have reviewed CCA during recent years and have restricted its use in residential situations. These restrictions were a precautionary move due to public pressure after the publication of some studies suggesting that CCA could pose a risk to children. Subsequent studies found this not to be the case.[4][5] However, in response to the pressures at the time, the wood preservation industry in the USA and Canada[citation needed] volunteered not to use CCA for the treatment of residential timber. On 31 December 2003 the production of CCA-treated wood for such applications became a violation of the manufacturers’ labels approved by the United States Environmental Protection Agency (EPA).[6]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromated_copper_arsenate
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May 15, 2015 9:18pm
mikenmild

Oh lord, spare us from Jade Helm truthers.
http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/poll-one-third-republicans-think-obama-wants-invade-texas
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May 15, 2015 9:35pm
Dennis Horne

To my uncertain knowledge, timber used in house frames was not tanalised. It was boric-treated only, for borer.
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May 15, 2015 11:15pm
Dennis Horne

Is there a medical distinction between “Guts” and “Balls”? We’ve heard colleagues referring to people with “Guts”, or with “Balls”. Do they know the difference between them? Here’s the official distinction; straight from the BMJ.

GUTS – Is arriving home late, after a night out with the lads, being met by your wife with a broom, and having the “Guts” to ask: “Are you still cleaning, or are you flying somewhere?”

BALLS – Is coming home late after a night out with the lads, smelling of perfume and beer, lipstick on your collar, slapping your wife on the bum and having the “Balls” to say: ‘You’re next, Chubby.’

I trust this clears up any confusion. Medically speaking, there is no difference in outcome; both are fatal.
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May 15, 2015 11:23pm
Manolo

A shameless and dedicated hack: https://gma.yahoo.com/video/george-stephanopoulos-addresses-donation-clinton-130622158.html
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May 16, 2015 5:43am
Manolo

dime’s future? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvandradio/tv-and-radio-reviews/11605830/The-Secret-World-of-Tinder-are-we-really-all-technosexuals.html 😀
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May 16, 2015 6:49am

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