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May 11, 2015 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 11 May 2015

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wellygirl

Maggy @ 2.58pm

I too wonder how many commenters are constrained from freely debating here because they use their real names and are subjected to bullying threats of legal action. As an anonymous poster I am more than happy to do your dirty work for you. 🙂

I am rather stubborn and more than happy to call out the self-styled ‘public watchdog’ on her hypocrisy.
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May 11, 2015 4:20pm
wellygirl

Komata, I agree with many of your points noted, though not being a psychologist I am doing it very much from a layman’s point of view.

I may not have been posting here long, but I have been reading KB for a while, and one of the things that has prompted me to comment was the abject hypocrisy of Penny, and the anger I feel at women like her who make life difficult for other women with their apparent misandry. The one thing that I did not appreciate was that Penny refused to engage in sensible and logical debate, and started to bully me with no provocation on my part.

The thing that strikes me with the behaviour shown by Penny is she is a lot like the classic school bully picking on the (perceived) weaker opponent, unfortunately for her I am quite stubborn and will not just roll over and let her treat me that way. She also has this idea she is working for something greater than anyone else and shows a sense of self-importance that is staggering, and a bit delusional, she also acts as if she has some moral high-ground over the rest of us, and does not like it pointed out when it is shown that she is not that much better than anyone else.

The one thing I may disagree on, is that I am not sure though if it is a case that she has a lack of empathy, or if it is more that she is just spiteful. I am still trying to work that one out.
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May 11, 2015 4:31pm
Viking2

dime (10,925 comments) says:
May 11th, 2015 at 11:03 am

So it was a horrible weekend in terms of the road toll. Gotta feel for all the families etc. awful.

So Hosking gets that race car driver on. Murphy. apparently he represents some road safety group.

his opinion – forced driving classes and more regular check ups of vehicles.

pretty sure this is the same guy who fronted that campaign where the MTA were trying to force the government not to change the WOF rules. ya know – the local mechanic will go broke bullshit.

how is his opinion valid?

using a terrible weekend and loss of life to push the MTA agenda and FORCE people to pay more money.

ill be fucking surprised if WOF issues is what caused this weekends carnage.

Hang your head in shame “murph”

===========================
Correct dime.
Here is what the one of the passengers had to say about the accident in Te Puna which killed 3 Auckland ladies.

The uncle of a woman trapped and knocked unconscious in the crash feared his niece was dead when he tried to cut her free from their car as it burned, with his own finger hanging by a thread.

Sam O’Brien, 35, was travelling as a passenger in his niece’s car as the two travelled back to his Te Puna home from Whakamarama on Saturday night.

Mr O’Brien told the Bay of Plenty Times they pulled over to the left side of State Highway 2 before attempting to cross the road to enter into his driveway on the other side about 7.35pm. The car then came into collision with the minivan, also travelling east.

From the crash scene yesterday morning, Mr O’Brien explained how they had pulled over and, “then boom, we were up in the air and ended up over here. Everything was just going backwards”.

“As the impact happened, I grabbed my niece. I put my arm around her.”

When the vehicles came to a stop, Mr O’Brien thought his niece was dead. Then he saw flames.
more;http://www.nzherald.co.nz/bay-of-plenty-times/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503343&objectid=11446568

So a clear lack of attention on the part of the van driver with devastating results.

Mind you this road is very unforgiving. Lots of deaths on it over the last 40 years. Basically it is still like the original cart track of 80 years ago with patches but now a very high volume of traffic. It goes up and down and lots of corners and intersections and driveways, is relatively narrow in many places and has old narrow two lane bridges.
Its scary when two big rigs meet on the bridges.
It pissed me off that Pork Barrel Bridges to get elected last time promised a tunnel to a few residents who had a slow trip in the morning because of a narrow bridge which is not getting fixed then went to Northland where no one lives and promised 10 bridges for a few people when this road has been crying out for a rebuild for most of the 40 years I have lived here. It is about the most deadly road in NZ and has been for a longtime.
Transit for most of that time has owned all the real estate necessary to remake the road into a motorway.
The Kaimai Hill rd is the same.

The traffic including the million trucks that use these two roads have to be seen to understand.
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May 11, 2015 4:49pm
waikatogirl

Michael:Would you be happy to be flashed at through your lounge window?

***

It was a joke Michael ! 😉
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May 11, 2015 4:58pm
kowtow

TVNZ execs tell parliament they don’t want to broadcast party political election messages as too boring!

Great , now privatise TVNZ as it no longer wishes to be a public broadcaster.

http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/273334/tvnz-tries-to-scrap-election-address-obligation

Most of what it carries is shit anyway and its news is too.
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May 11, 2015 5:03pm
Jacob

Several people have commented on Penny Bright and some surmise a mental condition contributes to her illogical behaviour – mostly wishing to make a positive point but negating that from the very outset by her approach.
that actually allows you to play out a scenario one day and come back and do it all over again the next day without adding much each time.

An earlier action against Water Care resulted in a public award and from that has arisen the so-called public watch dog stance. And even with a true watchdog, like Erin Brockovich, it is usually one hard act to follow.

However, having put her house “on the line” (through not paying rates from 2007) conflicts with the supposed watchdog function, since others who could be categorized as watchdogs, Cameron Slater for one, have their own blogs and comment outlets, whereas Penny uses Kiwiblog. Otherwise her media contacts are reduced to whenever her house is threatened – a particularly poor and unreliable method of contact – or when she is ejected from some Council venue.

A lot of her thinking is over time reduced to bumper sticker slogans and can often be predicted – “cowardly, nameless”, “part-time Wall Street banker”. “you have really made my day”, “what have YOU done”, “in a caring way”[which isn’t], “follow the dollar”, “TRUTH in FACTS” and “in my considered opinion” ad finem ad nauseam.

At the moment a certain amount of Penny’s thinking and decision making is fucked up while she awaits a court ruling on the validity of a technicality on rates assessments and invoices.
This may explain a certain current hiatus, and a more vague approach by Penny in the last couple of weeks.

Meanwhile I would ask her directly
• What exact information does Auckland Council have to publish on Council websites to satisfy her knowledge of rates spending, for her to resume paying rates?
• Does she ever intend paying the rates and penalties for the period she believes the Council has not provided the information she seeks?
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May 11, 2015 5:18pm
wellygirl

Waikato Girl, I believe the correct response to Michael is:

It depends on who is doing the flashing! 😉
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May 11, 2015 5:24pm
nasska

….”It depends on who is doing the flashing”…..

Blatant sexism! 🙂
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May 11, 2015 5:30pm
stigie

• “Does she ever intend paying the rates and penalties for the period she believes the Council has not provided the information she seeks” ?

I can answer that one for you Jacob…..No.
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May 11, 2015 5:36pm
wellygirl

‘Blatant sexism!’

Not sexism Nasska, it’s blatant lookism. 🙂
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May 11, 2015 5:39pm
big bruv

While we are on the subject of road safety. Are crown cars (those with a CR reg) allowed to drive at speeds in excess of 125km an hour on the motor way?

One passed me today (CR650) on the southern motorway heading out of Auckland, I was doing 110 and this thing flashed past me, I sped up to see who the passenger was but at 125km an hour I was not getting any closer to the crown car and backed off.
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May 11, 2015 5:39pm
mikenmild

Where did your comment vanish to EAD? Was it too crazy even for you?
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May 11, 2015 5:39pm
IGM

Dime: Is Murphy getting backhands from MTA or what? Your post is 100% on the money, especially his previous outbursts over 12 month warrants . . . he has fast become a disliked interfering dork.
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May 11, 2015 5:40pm
waikatogirl

WG, that came to me but you don’t want to INVITE flashers. It wouldn’t be a treat if you knew it was coming. 🙂
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May 11, 2015 5:40pm
stigie

http://media.nzherald.co.nz/webcontent/image/jpg/201520/junk1_300x200.jpg

A bit of fun between two mates on the footy field during the weekend !~
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May 11, 2015 5:43pm
nasska

If she could have afforded to pay her rates she would have put the money in trust dependent on the outcome of the inevitable legal action the council would take. As things stand at the moment she’ll probably get some mugs to front up for her rates bill through “Give a Little” or some such mawkish public appeal.

Martyrdom becomes Ms Bright…..she’ll milk the sympathy & pathos to the last drop.
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May 11, 2015 5:44pm
UglyTruth

Jacob,
Apparently Penny’s argument is that the council is not keeping their end of the deal, so she is entitled not to keep her end.
IMO the real issue here is the origin of the obligation of the land owner, since the district councils typically only assume that it exists.
The ambiguity of the language they use against the landowner should be interpreted against their interests, i.e. that a person is an entity with diminished legal status and no proof exists that the landowner suffers from this condition.
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May 11, 2015 5:45pm
waikatogirl

Has anyone else heard that after 1 July we are all in for a large ACC levy cut.
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May 11, 2015 5:47pm
nasska

What’s everyone looking at stigie? Did the homo eroticism of the big game become all too much for some of the players? 🙂
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May 11, 2015 5:51pm
wellygirl

Good Point Waikatogirl 🙂
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May 11, 2015 5:56pm
stigie

Yes, it did for some Nasska, they are thinking about taking action against the guy having a fondle FFS !~
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May 11, 2015 5:56pm
jcuk

There was some silly woman on the Jim Mora Show tonight talking about people who slow to 10Kmph to go around corners and people who cannot drive at 100kmph should not have a licence. I choose to drive at 80kmph until my vehicle on one of its infrequent trips out of town warms up when I find myself doing her 100K … and if I see somebody come up behind me I pull over at the next safe spot for them to overtake … With more overtaking spots the roads would be a safer place without dam fool money traps to catch those safely speeding past as quickly as possible. It would be good if Government put traffic fines into a fund to make roads safer … I might even consider contributing since my last speeding ticket was in 1964.
Edit .. if passing lanes are too expensive and difficult to install then reasonably long pull over stretches marked with a tortoise sign ?
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May 11, 2015 5:56pm
Griff

Savings coming in July 2015
http://www.acc.co.nz/for-individuals/other-motorists/WPC137267
From July 2015 the cost of the ACC levy portion of your vehicle licensing fee (rego) is going down by an average of 41% depending on your type of vehicle. There will also be a reduction in the ACC petrol levy by 3 cents per litre (from 9.9 cents to 6.9 cents).

Don’t pay more than necessary

There are different licensing periods set out on your motor vehicle licence renewal form. For more information visit NZ Transport Agency (NZTA) Registration and Licensing (external link).

If you pay your motor vehicle levy before 1 July 2015 you will pay the current rate at the time of registration.

To make sure you don’t pay more than necessary you may want to consider opting for a shorter licensing renewal period. That way you’ll be ready to take full advantage of the new lower price when your vehicle licence comes up for renewal after July 2015. You can renew online at NZTA for three months or more. To renew for less than three months you’ll need to visit an NZTA agent and complete an MR27 form.
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May 11, 2015 5:59pm
stigie

I put up a picture and you mention the word homo Nasska and we get fucking downticks…

Where the fuck do you go for shelter ?
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May 11, 2015 6:01pm
nasska

….”vehicle licensing fee (rego) is going down by an average of 41% depending on your type of vehicle.”….

We’ll probably win a little on the cars Griff but I can’t see much in the way of savings on the ute rego. The NZTA seem to reckon that Landcruiser 70’s don’t bend enough when you run over road lice. 🙂
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May 11, 2015 6:06pm
nasska

Dad’s still a bit sensitive over Richie stigie. 🙂
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May 11, 2015 6:08pm
stigie

Its been a while now since we had a jolly good meltdown Nasska, they are great entertainment !~
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May 11, 2015 6:17pm
Manolo

Another progressive imbecile:
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-32680882?ns_source=twitter&ns_mchannel=social&ns_campaign=bbc_politics&ns_linkname=news_central

Singer Charlotte Church has been branded a “champagne socialist” by the Conservatives’ leader in Wales after she criticised the party’s election win.

Ms Church told an anti-austerity rally on Saturday the UK had “masochistically condemned itself” to a Tory government. She said she had felt “sick and gutted” by the general election result.
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May 11, 2015 6:20pm
Reid

The richest 80 individuals own as much as do all of the poorest half of humanity.

But don’t expect the MSM to talk about that, when much more relevant things happen like a women gets lost in the forest while jogging and Prince Harry – gasp – comes second in a – gasp – pub quiz – gasp. (Oh he’s just like us, oh he so wonderful, oh ….. – gasp – breathless pause).

And the sheeple continue happily baa-ing in their green green meadow of peace and content, blissfully ignorant of, well, you name it.

You know the most pathetic thing about that factoid, is that if any you discuss it at all, not that you should but if any of you chose to, I guarantee you that based on past performance, the only comments made about it would be whether or not the site that the factoid is from is a ‘reliable’ source (in the learned opinion of the individual raising the issue of course). In other words, there will be no repeat no discussion about whether or not 80 individuals indeed have accumulated the equivalent wealth that is shared amongst approx 4,500,000,000 individuals and what that says about our times if so.

No.

None of that.

Such is the state of debate on KB’s GD these days.

Reminds one of the MSM really.

Compelling.

If you’re an airhead bimbo.
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May 11, 2015 6:24pm
Griff

I’ve found the TARDIS reid
https://www.google.com/maps/place//@51.492137,-0.192878,3a,75y,291.8h,71.14t/data=!3m5!1e1!3m3!1sc9UMhWP_MWm9U0L48xEjYw!2e0!3e5!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0xad8352768ee1781a!6m1!1e1?hl=en
its real you can even get inside.
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May 11, 2015 6:28pm
mikenmild

RationalWiki would tell you Reid:
Whenever someone makes a remarkable claim and cites Globalresearch, they are almost certainly wrong.
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May 11, 2015 6:29pm
Griff

RationalWiki
is a liberal Conservative cultural Marxist media propaganda site site mike.
I have been told as much by a range of kb commentators.
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May 11, 2015 6:34pm
Reid

See? Point proven. Exactly as predicted, rather than discuss the topic, the responses centre around the efficacy of the site. How nuts is that given that this factoid is probably on about a hundred different sites?

How empty is the discussion become.

But that was my point, not whether that ratio of wealth is in fact the case in this flawed flawed world. That was just an example.

It’s pathetic frankly that that point is lost.

Like I said.

Such is the state of debate on KB’s GD these days.

Reminds one of the MSM really.

Compelling.

If you’re an airhead bimbo.
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May 11, 2015 6:41pm
waikatogirl

Ashburton Electricity are putting their power poles along those wide and fairly straight State Highway roads underground.

Those damn power poles keep jumping out in front of vehicles!
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May 11, 2015 6:41pm
Sir Leslie Bottocks

NZ Music Month.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HVogejKx_c
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May 11, 2015 6:45pm
calendar girl

Komata @ 2:19pm –

“…. and while it would be a shame to be forced to leave due to the actions of one specific individual, it is perhaps something that may have to be considered.”

Understand the point, but sadly that would become a wee victory for Penny Bright, and one that would also deprive you of the benefit of other contributors’ views.

“…. exactly what level of ‘patron’ abuse will have to be endured by the ‘regulars’ on this forum before DPF finally ……. pull[s] the plug’ on Bright P.?”

In my view, “pull[ing] the plug” on Ms Bright is not warranted, and I wouldn’t want that kind of (over?)-reaction. She enjoys ritual martyrdom, in fact she makes it her stock-in-trade. If she was banned here, her historic victory over KB would be insufferable. Denying her freedom of speech on KB would become her Leftie badge of honour for life.

But Ms Bright is often indulged on KB to an extent not enjoyed by other contributors. Other infringers usually go through a series of warnings and then (if they persist) short but escalating periods of suspension. One wonders why not Ms Bright; she has never received even a first warning about her personal abuse and her constant challenges to the legitimacy of KB’s ‘House Rules’.

A month or two ago, Ms Bright was required by David Farrar to desist from provocative actions which were imperiling his blog legally (by inducing readers to visit an offshore website that was defying a NZ Court suppression order). That intervention worked well – she had to back off and respect DPF’s requirements. In that circumstance he demonstrated clearly that he knew how to handle a woman appropriately!
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May 11, 2015 6:52pm
mikenmild

Couldn’t resist it Reid. Fact is, you continually come up with the most outlandish stories from the most dubious sources.
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May 11, 2015 6:53pm
Griff

given that this factoid is probably on about a hundred different sites
Its the echo chamber factor reid
i have seen it often were a factoid is spread around a number of sites If you trace it it has no content besides being repeated in empty echos.
A classic case was the claim made by fletch that Doctors Euthanize 650 Babies Under Assisted Suicide Law in the Netherlands.
I eventually found that it was a misrepresentation of a report saying that up to 650 non viable Babies are born in the Netherlands The parents and doctors of such babies can consider to Euthanize them rather than leave them to suffer needlessly until they die .
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May 11, 2015 6:58pm
nasska

…..”The parents and doctors of such babies can consider to Euthanize them rather than leave them to suffer needlessly until they die “….

They’ll never go to Heaven…..God prefers that they suffer.
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May 11, 2015 7:03pm
Reid

You guys keep falling into demonstrating the very point I was making.

It’s sad really.

As I said, lest you didn’t get it the first or the second time:

…rather than discuss the topic, the responses centre around the efficacy of the site. How nuts is that.

How empty is the discussion become.

Such is the state of debate on KB’s GD these days.

Reminds one of the MSM really.

Compelling.

If you’re an airhead bimbo.
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May 11, 2015 7:30pm
nasska

Reid

Before anyone offers an opinion on a subject they like to know that the facts that they’re debating are correct.

Most will research the source first & if it seems a bit dodgy there’s not much point in continuing.
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May 11, 2015 7:37pm
Reid

Most will research the source first & if it seems a bit dodgy there’s not much point in continuing.

So you believe everything your reliable source says, no matter what it is, and disbelieve everything your unreliable source says, no matter what it is?

How about publishers?

Do you believe everything published by Doubleday and nothing published by Penguin?

If not, why not?

This is your logic nasska. It is. Yes. It. Is. Wear it. Live it. Believe it.

Leemings do mental things too. As a group.

This doesn’t mean it’s a good idea to be one.
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May 11, 2015 7:40pm
EAD

Reid,

The thoroughly indoctrinated right wing sheeple will probably tell you that the fact that 80 individuals owning half the world’s wealth is the ultimate example of free market capitalism. The left wing sheeple will tell you that this proves that the government needs to “tax the rich”.

The critical thinking amongst us will correctly observe that big business has completely captured governments across the world to crush competition and entrench monopolies which can correctly be called fascism. The galloping mentals will then tell you that this ain’t fascism as fascism is a “far right” philosophy which committed the Holocau$t™.
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May 11, 2015 7:41pm
UglyTruth

RationalWiki would tell you Reid:
Whenever someone makes a remarkable claim and cites Globalresearch, they are almost certainly wrong.

Our purpose here at RationalWiki includes:

Analyzing and refuting pseudoscience and the anti-science movement.
Documenting the full range of crank ideas.
Explorations of authoritarianism and fundamentalism.
Analysis and criticism of how these subjects are handled in the media.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Main_Page

Part of the anti-science movement involves suppressing evidence of alternative scientific theories.

http://rationalwiki.org/w/index.php?title=Expanding_Earth&action=history

(cur | prev) 05:38, 10 May 2015‎ WatcherIntheDark (Talk | contribs)‎ m . . (-542)‎ . . (Reverted edits by 118.149.162.59 (talk) to last revision by FuzzyCatPotato) (undo)
(cur | prev) 05:15, 10 May 2015‎ 118.149.162.59 (Talk)‎ . . (+542)‎ . . (FuzzyCatPotato is arbitrarily removing relevant content.) (undo)
(cur | prev) 02:21, 7 May 2015‎ FuzzyCatPotato (Talk | contribs)‎ . . (-542)‎ . . (Undo revision 1464195 by 118.149.169.215 (talk)) (undo)
(cur | prev) 02:13, 7 May 2015‎ 118.149.169.215 (Talk)‎ . . (+542)‎ . . (Expanding Earth evidenced by decreasing rotation rate.) (undo)
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May 11, 2015 7:45pm
Griff

rather than discuss the topic, the responses centre around the efficacy of the site. How nuts is that.

its not nuts reid it just reflects that people use critical thinking skills when accessing information on the web.
If i go to a site and find it makes misrepresentations to peddle a viewpoint I dont take anything on there as fact without independent confirmation of the fact from a more reputable source. Your links are to sites many of us have already explored and know to be full of codswollop.

My example for instance
Doctors Euthanize 650 Babies http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Doctors+Euthanize+650+Babies
Notice how many site like brietbart are pushing an anti euthanasia stance using this made up fact. I become dubious of any of their information after a little effort in tracking down the source of this lie knowing they dont fact check ..
The report that is being misrepresented
http://knmg.artsennet.nl/Over-KNMG/About-KNMG.htm

edit report can be accessed from above site
KNMG – Press release – Clear criteria for medical end of life decisions for newborn infants with very serious birth defects (2013)
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May 11, 2015 7:47pm
nasska

That’s not quite the way I get my info Reid. Obviously I am limited by time so I can’t read every statistic or opinion of that statistic ever printed. As such I have to rely on an expert (a journalist would perform this function in a sane world) to sieve out the facts & give me a soundbite. I have to trust this expert so if he makes multiple cockups & misrepresentations I switch to another source.

I’m human, therefore I will be influenced on where to get my info by like minded associates.

In other words an information source without a good history of getting it right will attract the meagre interest afforded the link you provided tonight.
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May 11, 2015 7:50pm
Reid

its not nuts reid it just reflects that people use critical thinking skills when accessing information on the web.

Actually it demonstrates the precise opposite Griff.

As I say the direct logical extension of your “technique” is that you believe everything that one book publisher publishes and you disbelieve everything that another book publisher publishes. Regardless of what the particular publication is. That has nothing to do with your assessment of its efficacy.

Now that’s fucking nuts.

It really is.

It’s not even arguable how tremendously roaringly insane that approach is.

Take that as a serious argument to ANY academic and they’ll not only laugh in your face they’ll probably examine you to see if you’re capable of getting home on your own without pooing your own pants.

And what’s more nuts even than that, is that several of you have spent the last dozen or so posts advocating it.
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May 11, 2015 7:54pm
EAD

The TPP is another example where logic flies out the door and cognitive dissonance kicks in. If you oppose it you are against “free trade” and only a luddite could possibly be against free trade.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-05-10/free-trade-plutocratic-propaganda

And the best way to describe the TPP?

“Packaged as a gift to the American people that will renew industry and make us more competitive, the Trans-Pacific Partnership is a Trojan horse. It’s a coup by multinational corporations who want global subservience to their agenda.”

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-05-09/multinational-trojan-horse-trans-pacific-partnership

That these sources are Zerohedge for which rationalwiki has an entry on, means the sheeple can dismiss all the points they raise without ever having to think about them as they haven’t come from an “approved” source.

Never mind that they already don’t trust the approved sources by giving them the moniker “MSM” when it comes to domestic matters, but when it when it comes to foreign affairs and monetary/economic matters, they must be trusted 100% as surely they wouldn’t have an agenda, would they?
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May 11, 2015 8:02pm
Griff

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Zero_Hedge

Zero Hedge[1] is a batshit insane Austrian economics-based finance blog run by a pseudonymous founder who posts articles under the name “Tyler Durden,” after the character from Fight Club by Chuck Palahniuk.It has accurately predicted 200 of the last 2 recessions.

Tyler claims to be a “believer in a sweeping conspiracy that casts the alumni of Goldman Sachs as a powerful cabal at the helm of U.S. policy, with the Treasury and the Federal Reserve colluding to preserve the status quo.” While this is not an entirely unreasonable statement of the problem,[2] his solution actually mirrors the anatagonist in Fight Club: Tyler wants, per Austrian school ideas, to lead a catastrophic market crash in order to destroy banking institutions and bring back “real” free market capitalism.[3]

The site posts nearly indecipherable analyses of multiple seemingly unrelated subjects to point towards a consistent theme of economic collapse any day now. Tyler seems to repeat The Economic Collapse Blog’s idea of posting blog articles many times a day and encouraging people to post it as far and wide as humanly possible. Tyler moves away from the format of long lists to write insanely dense volumes[4] filled with (often contradicting) jargon that makes one wonder if the writers even know what the words actually mean.[5] The site first appeared in early 2009, meaning that (given Tyler’s habit of taking a shit on each and every positive data point), anyone listening to him from the beginning missed the entire 2009-2014 rally in the equities market.

The only writer conclusively identified is Dan Ivandjiiski, who conducts public interviews on behalf of Zero Hedge.[6] The blog came online several days after he lost his job at Wexford Capital, a Connecticut-based hedge fund (run by a former Goldman trader). And chose his pen name from a nihilistic psychotic delusion.

Zero Hedge is not quite the NaturalNews of economics, but not for want of trying.
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May 11, 2015 8:12pm
Andrei

I’ll tell you what is “batshit crazy” Griff

Beliving that the farts of cows in Waikato are causing the North Pole to melt
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May 11, 2015 8:43pm
Andrei

A ship flying the flag of the Cook Islands has been attacked off Tobruk – if you think I’m making this up

I’m not
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May 11, 2015 8:45pm
nasska

….”A ship flying the flag of the Cook Islands has been attacked off Tobruk”…..

Have you a link for that Andrei……sounds weird!
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May 11, 2015 8:48pm
Mike

Garrett,

If you would be so kind as to answer, i have a question about the mechanics of 3S:

If you have an offender who has two strikes and for the third they commit manslaughter with gross negligence, they get the maximum sentence of life imprisonment on the third right (as in there is no way to avoid anomalies where the shoddy mechanic is punished as severely as the calculated murderer) ?
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May 11, 2015 8:49pm
Andrei

Here’s where the ship is

http://www.marinetraffic.com/ais/details/ships/shipid:702091/mmsi:518686000/imo:9148491/vessel:TUNA_1

Here is an English language version

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-05-11/turkish-ship-attacked-off-libya-s-tobruk-foreign-ministry
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May 11, 2015 8:52pm
Brigitte

@Bottocks 6:45pm

You do realise of course that the Blam Blam Blam song was used by the McGillicuddy party as their anthem. And, as a result, we had the unusual situation of Metiria Turei breaking Parliamentary rules in her maiden speech by singing ‘There is no depression in New Zealand’ in Te Reo. Rather taints an otherwise excellent song.
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May 11, 2015 8:52pm
Reid

So Mike you really think it’s odds on that someone with two strikes accidently commits a 3rd strike when really it was just something innocent that they didn’t really mean to do at all, in any way.

You mean manslaughter could just happen to anyone, anywhere, anytime kind of thing Mike?

That what you’re driving at?
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May 11, 2015 8:54pm
nasska

There’s an escape clause allowing a judge to override the maximum penalty if the punishment was to be manifestly unjust.

In a situation as depicted by Mike it would kick in.
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May 11, 2015 8:58pm
Mike

Well manslaughter with gross negligence is something that the person “didn’t really mean to do” (in the sense that they didn’t mean to kill anyone, they were just grossly negligent).

To your second point, it is true that manslaughter is a crime that has a very broad net in terms of who ends up committing it, this being evidenced in the wide range of sentencing options available to the judge (absent 3S).

Generally i wasn’t making any political gotcha, just was interested to see how it works with regard to this particular crime, who better to ask than the man himself?

The “manifestly unjust” part only applies to parole periods as far as i know, so unless there is something tucked in elsewhere, our terrible mechanic gets either the same as the calculated murderer, or something more severe (if the calculated murderer was on a first strike offense and got relatively lucky with his sentence).
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May 11, 2015 9:00pm
Griff

Andrei (3,075 comments) says:

I’ll tell you what is “batshit crazy” Griff

Beliving that the farts of cows in Waikato are causing the North Pole to melt

No Andrei believing Obama is the anti Christ and we are entering the apocalypse is measurable more insane than supporting the opinion of every major scientific body on the planet.
I love it when nutwhacks like you and EAD deny climate change it makes the more sane realize what sort of weirdos they are agreeing with.
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May 11, 2015 9:00pm
nasska

Obviously the Cook Islands government are making a few shekels on the side hocking off port of convenience documents Andrei.
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May 11, 2015 9:01pm
Reid

Just interested Mike in your scenario. Seems to me someone on two stikes might not be quite so casual about his potential third as to take up a job where you might be exposed to manslaughter charges.

Unless of course they were a professional knifethrower in the circus and it’s all they’d ever known, then they might have to, lest they starve.

That’d probably make a good book, wouldn’t it. Maybe Shortland Street should do an episode on it.
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May 11, 2015 9:03pm
Mike

Manslaughter isn’t limited to your choice of profession, for example you could fall within it by taking a mate on a fishing trip and being grossly negligent by operating an unsafe vessel without safety equipment.
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May 11, 2015 9:08pm
Andrei

Indeed Nasska – This is going to be used as the casus belli for a naval blockade of Libya which as we know NATO has completely fucked up and turned into a failed state.
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May 11, 2015 9:14pm
Reid

Manslaughter isn’t limited to your choice of profession

Exactly Mike.

What would probably be a great idea is if someone was starting out on the long lag for the second of his strikes then he should maybe review the liklihood his current profession was going to land him a 3rd strike for no reason at all and use the immense generosity of the long suffering taxpayer to retrain himself into something that wasn’t going to do that, after all.

Maybe you should write a letter to the Minister, or your MP, so they get that training underway for all second strikers, just in case it isn’t already happening.
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May 11, 2015 9:16pm
nasska

Possibly Andrei. Regardless they have to do something before they’re overrun with refugees.
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May 11, 2015 9:22pm
Mike

It’s possible (heck desirable) to take a critical look at how legislation actually works without taking an actual position on the underlying politics. As for your question, yes there are in my view some 3rd strikers who could in theory be less morally despicable than others yet get harsher sentences. To give an example, say you have a person who had two strikes, several decades ago, both for entering an empty property with a screwdriver. On the third he becomes our shoddy mechanic. This guy isn’t as bad as the first strike murderer or the serial rapist who gets only one strike warning when busted for multiple offenses (as they were prosecuted at once).
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May 11, 2015 9:23pm
Reid

Mike is it possible to get a strike for entering a property with a screwdriver?

And how many people in that category are sitting on first or second strikes?
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May 11, 2015 9:26pm
Mike

If the screwdriver is deemed to be a weapon then it would be aggravated robbery. It would also be the same thing if it was a robbery without any physical violence beyond coercion, just that it involved two people, a sidewalk mugging if you will. I don’t know about the statistics.
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May 11, 2015 9:29pm
Reid

Ah well, maybe they should somehow resist the urge to expose themselves to the crime in the first place Mike.

Somehow most people seem to be able to manage to do that their entire lives, with no problems.

Somehow.
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May 11, 2015 9:34pm
Mike

You don’t seem to care about proportionality at all, using your logic, we may as well be throwing the book at everyone on their first crime, no matter what that crime is.
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May 11, 2015 9:38pm
Reid

You don’t seem to care about proportionality at all

Mike I care deeply about people taking responsibility for their own actions. And this applies even if you did have a father who sold you to your uncle for sex for a dozen of beer and a pack of smokes when you were five.

Even if you’ve had a hard life and even if you were bought up by scum masquerading as parents who taught you to hate, this doesn’t mean you have an excuse for throwing hate over to anyone else.

It means if you do that then there’s an understandable reason for that happening, but it doesn’t mean it’s an excuse for that happening. And therefore you need to take the consequences of doing whatever it is you do.

And before you ask, no I wasn’t one of those kids who suffered what I describe above and no I don’t know what I’d do if I was and yes I know there are people in the system with that history and worse.
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May 11, 2015 9:46pm
nasska

….”we may as well be throwing the book at everyone on their first crime, no matter what that crime is.”…..

There have been interesting comments in that vein made on these forums during past discussions on crime. The theory advanced was to the effect that by pussyfooting & down playing first or juvenile crime we were teaching the perpetrators that they could escape serious consequences. They took that lesson on board & used it to become serial offenders.

We may actually be promoting what we want to stop.
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May 11, 2015 10:00pm
kowtow

How stupid are EU leaders. This plan would encourage even more illegal immigrants to make the journey. And more will die along the way.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/11596320/Britain-will-be-forced-by-Brussels-to-accept-Mediterranean-migrants.html
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May 11, 2015 10:08pm
publicwatchdog

Sheesh Kiwibloggers!

What happened to the ‘scroll past’ and ‘don’t comment’ on Penny Bright’s Kiwiblog posts?

What an ill-disciplined, whining lot some of you are!

For the public record, in my view, calling (mainly) anonymous Kiwibloggers ‘gutless’ for lacking the courage to put their names to posts where they personally attack me – is a fair call.

In my view – hiding behind pseudonyms to personally attack people – lacks courage, and is thus is fair to call ‘gutless’.

Does the truth hurt Kiwibloggers?

Not my fault ‘if the cap fits’?

I also hold that it is not actually possible to make ‘personal comments’ about anonymous persons, whom, for whatever reason, choose to hide behind pseudonyms.

You make not like my considered opinion on this matter.

So be it.

That’s your right, as is my right to put forward an opinion YOU don’t agree with.

Additionally, I have and will make complaints where Kiwibloggers tell defamatory lies about me.

For which some Kiwibloggers have received warning ‘strikes’ – you know who you are.

You know full well that unlike most other Kiwibloggers – because I use the ‘freedom of expression’ that David Farrar does allow, in my experience on HIS blog, to put forward considered opinions that are ‘unpopular’ to many of you, I seem to cop more crap (as it were) than most.

In my opinion, I’m not thin-skinned, and can ‘take it’ as well as ‘dish it’.

More than most of you?

So Kiwibloggers – moan away….. 😉

So funny that I don’t even have to post anything myself – but still get lots of comments?

DUH?

(Shakes head – somewhat mystified by it all 😉

Sweet dreams Kiwibloggers – tomorrow is another day ..

Kind regards

Penny Bright

http://www.pennybright4mayor.org.nz
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May 11, 2015 10:23pm
wellygirl

Time for a comment totally unrelated to anything. I just checked the AQI figure for Beijing at the moment, and woohoo, it is 25. Pity I have a horrible cold and don’t feel like going out to enjoy this beautiful day before it heads back over 100.
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May 11, 2015 10:35pm
Scott Chris

publicwatchdog (4,122 comments) says:
May 11th, 2015 at 10:23 pm
Sheesh Kiwibloggers!

What happened to the ‘scroll past’ and ‘don’t comment’ on Penny Bright’s Kiwiblog posts?

What an ill-disciplined, whining lot some of you are!

Good point Penny.
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May 11, 2015 11:13pm
Scott Chris

NZ music month:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYk4xLlMVbA
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May 11, 2015 11:22pm
Manolo

Giving the incompetent Messiah the cold shoulder: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/05/11/saudi-king-salman-to-miss-gulf-nation-summit-in-us/

The White House was scrambling Monday to put a positive face on an upcoming summit of Persian Gulf states after learning leaders from four of the six invited nations are expected to skip.

While those nations are still sending representatives to the summit being hosted by President Obama later this week at Camp David, the absence of crucial heads of state — notably, Saudi Arabia’s new king — could present an awkward situation for the administration.
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May 12, 2015 4:47am
Manolo

@kowtow: But progressive and multiculturalist stephieboy would be happy to welcome thousands of fellow Muslims to NZ.
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May 12, 2015 4:50am

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