General Debate 10 April 2015

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IGM

The left are really upset their mouthpiece Campbell is getting the arse. Hope this just for starters, I could wear out my keyboard listing the lot of these worthless socialist slugs. Media is top heavy with them, and as they are culled it may possibly improve.
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April 10, 2015 8:05am
duggledog

Oh god IGM you have to read this then: BBC news on Radio France – THE epitome of a bloated socialist government department gone completely mad… and does it remind you of any particular news organisation within our borders (ah herm):

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-32209048

The choice bit:

“Today the years of accumulated waste and inefficiencies cry out for an overhaul.

– From 2004 to 2013, expenditure at Radio France went up 27.5% – with no increase in audience.

– Salary costs went up by 47% because at a time of growing pressure on jobs everywhere else Radio France took on 20% more staff.

– Because of the layers of accumulated privileges (often negotiated with unions after previous strikes), the 5,000 workers enjoy up to 68 working days off a year – more than 13 weeks.

– There are 388 staff members who are paid union representatives – a whopping 8% of the workforce.

– Renovation of Radio France’s landmark Seine-side headquarters was supposed to cost 262m euros (£191m, $285m). Instead it is costing 575m euros.”

Farage is right; the UK must get the hell out of Europe. Should never have been in it. France; mental. Spain, ditto. Let’s not even talk about Greece or the former Communist countries. Or the Scandinavian countries where socialism has gone off the reservation.
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April 10, 2015 8:07am
Jacob

Rt Hon Winston Peters 01|04|2015 –
Parliament today refused leave for the Member for Northland Rt Hon Winston Peters to introduce a Bill to remove the right of paedophile’s to name suppression when the victim wants their attacker named.
– NZF website

Why does this proposed bill not now appear among those 66 bills currently awaiting selection by ballot for introduction on Members’ Days?
Or was the bill not actually drafted when Peters sought to introduce it?
Just wondering …
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April 10, 2015 8:10am
RF

I am told there is a photograph in today’s Christchurch Press with Stephen Joyce opening a building China. With him are Chinese officials plus two Maori warriors up front with rolling eyes and protruding tongues. Standing next to Joyce is a Maori female also with rolling eyes.

Obvious question… What purpose did the Maori face pullers serve by attending and why do Maori persist in making these wierd looking faces that must leave strangers shaking their heads in bewilderment. I know it is a culture thing but christ it’s 2015.. Not 1815.
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April 10, 2015 8:15am
ciaron

Tiger even through 8, clubhouse leaders Charlie Hoffman and Justin Rose at 5 under…
it’s going to be a long morning with low productivity 🙂
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April 10, 2015 8:17am
Fraggle

I seriously do hope that the progressives in the National government do not fall into this trap from the Muslim apologists or go anywhere near it.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11430299
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April 10, 2015 8:19am
IGM

Heard someone on Hosking praising Auckland Hospital coronary care. Well, we should also think about Wellington Hospital’s coronary unit . . . it is magnificent, and gives one nothing but confidence in our health system.
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April 10, 2015 8:23am
doggone7

IGM @ 8:05 am: “… I could wear out my keyboard listing the lot of these worthless socialist slugs. Media is top heavy with them, and as they are culled it may possibly improve.”

I like it when people challenge themselves! Please go right ahead and do so. Doing the first bit of wearing out your keyboard would achieve the second part of improving the media. Improve immeasurably.
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April 10, 2015 8:29am
IGM

dogbone: Happy to see you are upset witnessing your greasy little mouthpiece being arsed out. Hopefully there are a lot more following.
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April 10, 2015 8:32am
G152

Campbell Lame under threat?
Oh dear how sad to bad never mind.
The only problem is what are they going to replace it with.
TV3 left as can be
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April 10, 2015 8:33am
wiseowl

RF. More to the point.
Someone is paying for this unnecessary bs .Wonder who?

It’s the sort of carry on that Key should have canned years ago.
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April 10, 2015 8:33am
twofish

RF
In any challenge or haka, Maori pulling faces, eyes rolling tongue protruding was to indicate what the enemy would look like when beheaded and the head impaled on a stake.
This point seems to have been overlooked when the throat-slitting gesture was decried.

It may be culturally appropriate in receiving a delegation of ISIS but apart from that you are probably right to question its current relevance 🙂
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April 10, 2015 8:50am
EAD

“Sometimes the first duty of intelligent men is the restatement of the obvious.” – George Orwell

I wonder if he had Paul Craig Roberts in mind when he said the below:

“I thank all of you for your well wishes and for your awareness that the greatest achievement of man is the US Constitution that requires government to be accountable to the morality given to us by the Christian religion and by the centuries long secular struggle for accountable government in Britain. Liberty is a human achievement, and we must defend this achievement at all costs. It took a thousand years to gain it.

Governments are disposable. They come and go. Essentially, governments consist of a concentrated failure of humans to behave morally. How many moral governments are there in history?”

http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2015/04/03/thank-birthday-wishes-resolute/
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April 10, 2015 8:51am
doggone7

IGM @ 8:32 am

Try to use the potty mouthed keys first!
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April 10, 2015 9:02am
Albert_Ross

This:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/news/67641382/new-zealand-hit-by-onestar-tripadvisor-reviews

And in the comments below, every contributor who says “the knockers are right, everything and everybody in New Zealand is useless, worthless garbage” gets loads of upticks and every contributor who thinks there might possibly be some merit somewhere in New Zealand is well into negative-tick territory.

Why do so many New Zealanders cringe and fawn before those who diss them, however unreasonable and ill-founded the criticism? It’s a very unattractive trait.
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April 10, 2015 9:03am
Left Right and Centre

Paul Henry breakfast – the ‘multi-platform’ thing ? I’m not loving it. It’s a bit like those utes with a full-on two row cabin and only half the tray on the back – it’s not one thing or the other – um- hmmm. And now we’re going over to our tack-on online person – Perlina, is it ? She’s there for her ‘understanding’ of social media. That must take a lot of understanding.

I’ve got his book and watch him but when he’s being a total twerp – cringe-o-rama. It’s hard for anyone to say something side-splittingly hilarious – so when he says something that’s not even remotely funny and then ‘cracks up’ idiotically with the dumb snivelling put-on yukking – shit that is bad news mate.

Pains me to be critical of his on-screen persona – I get why so many people can’t stand – make that can’t *f$%king* stand the sight of him.

It’s weird – three of them sitting there and the dynamic is Paul yapping and they do talk but mostly they’re like lemons – speak when spoken to. Nice try – I hate to say it – I reckon it sucks. I’m calling this one early. Yeah – the radio microphones – it’s TV mate. But also radio. Someone make it stop !!
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April 10, 2015 9:05am
stephieboy

EAD , this commentators concluding remarks on your beloved. Paul Craig Roberts are very germane,

“….I may not trust the government, but I really, really don’t trust paranoid conspiracy-mongers like Paul Craig Roberts. ”

– See more at: http://www.fontcraft.com/idiotwars/paul-craig-roberts-enemy-of-reason/#sthash.AMIgHpOF.dpuf

Deep irony there that Orwell quote I believe when PCR’s restates the obviously nonsensical !
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April 10, 2015 9:08am
EAD

The rootless International Bankers will not be happy – a lawmaker from the Iceland’s ruling Party, recently issued a report that suggests taking the power to create money away from commercial banks, and hand it to the central bank and, ultimately, Parliament:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-04-01/iceland-stuns-banks-plans-take-back-power-create-money

The Minister from Iceland must have been studying Thomas Jefferson who famously said:

“I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around [the banks] will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs”
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April 10, 2015 9:10am
Fraggle

Left Right and Centre 9:05am.

Point taken, but I’d rather have that lot than Rawdon on TV1 telling Bernard Hickey that the Gummint should be doing more toward helping New Zealanders who are “struggling” because everything is so expensive.
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April 10, 2015 9:11am
Left Right and Centre

Fraggle – only bulimics struggling to see breakfast twice should watch Rawdon and that other over hair-sprayed humanoid.
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April 10, 2015 9:15am
Manolo

Taking the incompetent’s administration for a ride: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/04/09/deal-or-no-deal-iran-leaders-blast-us-claims-on-nuke-deal-make-heavy-demands/

Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, who has final say on all state matters, tore into the U.S. in remarks published on his official website and on his Twitter account.

Khamenei made clear he was neither endorsing nor rejecting the framework deal announced last week. But he challenged the way the U.S. was describing it — specifically, a fact sheet put out by the White House saying sanctions would be removed only after inspectors verify Iran’s compliance.

The Ayatollah, in one tweet, claimed the fact sheet was “contrary to what was agreed.”
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April 10, 2015 9:16am
dime

“The rootless International Bankers will not be happy – a lawmaker from the Iceland’s ruling Party, recently issued a report that suggests taking the power to create money away from commercial banks, and hand it to the central bank and, ultimately, Parliament:”

that might end up even worse.

Dime should have got into banking.
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April 10, 2015 9:20am
Carlos

Interesting look at the Russian propaganda to fuel hatred towards Ukranians and stir up the conflict.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10152719885187217&fref=nf

It seems there was no girl.
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April 10, 2015 9:23am
ciaron

Woods (T53) slips to 2 over through 12, while Jordan Spieth charges out to 8 under through 14 to lead.
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April 10, 2015 9:30am
dime

Dime went to the standard this morning. Its funny. They are butt hurt!

Anyway, they have a quote from Hosking about if you cant afford to have kids, dont have em.

They then show a picture of a lady and say she gave birth to a son and raised him in a state house. that son is JK.

AT that point we are meant to go.. ohhhh youre right! have all the kids you want! no matter we will pay!

Didnt JK’s father pass away? slightly different to not being able to afford kids from the get go.
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April 10, 2015 9:42am
IGM

Dime: This further clarifies the left-wing spin media pushes at every opportunity. That being another reason why wimpy Campbell must be ousted immediately.
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April 10, 2015 9:54am
Andrei

Interesting look at the ~~Russian~~ Western propaganda to fuel hatred towards ~~Ukranians~~ Russians and stir up the conflict.

You probably couldn’t even even find Donetsk on a map.
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April 10, 2015 10:00am
Fraggle

LRC – Is it humanoid?
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April 10, 2015 10:07am
waikatogirl

LR&C: Paul Henry breakfast – the ‘multi-platform’ thing ? I’m not loving it. It’s a bit like those utes with a full-on two row cabin and only half the tray on the back – it’s not one thing or the other – um- hmmm. And now we’re going over to our tack-on online person – Perlina, is it ? She’s there for her ‘understanding’ of social media. That must take a lot of understanding.

***
Yes, I could do without the odd media lady in the glass box, that’s weird and the topics are sometimes questionable. The rest I am giving time to get used to it, takes a little while to feel comfortable with a new format. Only been 4 days.

I do feel PH is a tighter format, much less mucking around, fluff comments and fillers as seen on TV1 Breakfast 😉
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April 10, 2015 10:09am
wreck1080

Why do quad bikes not require roll bars? 14 yr old kid died on one the other day. Would roll bars add signicantly to the cost or cause operational difficulties? Too many people die needlessly on these things.

I’m not sure requiring rollbars would be nanny state, otherwise you could argue seatbelts in cars are also nanny state and those have saved thousands of lives I bet.
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April 10, 2015 10:18am
Lance

Bookies pick for Clarkson replacement

http://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/news/67678873/british-bake-off-host-to-replace-jeremy-clarkson-on-top-gear

Bra ha ha ha ha ha
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April 10, 2015 10:21am
Lance

@wreck
Farmers are tough, roll bars are for poofters.
And no farmer wants to be accused of being a poofter, even if their life depends on it

/sarc/
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April 10, 2015 10:25am
Colville

LR and C @ 9.05

It’s a bit like those utes with a full-on two row cabin and only half the tray on the back – it’s not one thing or the other

Obviously you have never driven a ute. If you dont have a cabin where do you put gear you dont want stolen? Got anything you want kept dry? it has to go in the back seat.

As long as the tray is big enough for a dog box or a quad (those dangerous things!) then its big enough.
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April 10, 2015 10:31am
waikatogirl

Dime: Didnt JK’s father pass away? slightly different to not being able to afford kids from the get go.
***
John Key’s father was a lazy drunk. Ruth left him taking the kids when he became too difficult to live with and she and the kids moved to Christchurch. George Key left Ruth with the equivalent of $40,000 debt when he died. Ruth worked hard and paid the debts off. (from Portrait of a PM)
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April 10, 2015 10:35am
cha

The second video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tcXEqOfldE
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April 10, 2015 10:44am
Manolo

The Frogs could always nominate a Muslim or a paedophile. Delicious irony:

Vatican City is delaying the acceptance of a new ambassador from France, and it may be because the ambassador-designate is an openly gay man. The Vatican’s apparent refusal to accept Stefanini’s credentials has led many to interpret the move as a sign of its disapproval of his appointment.
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April 10, 2015 10:45am
Jack5

The Hooerald sets a low-water mark in Anzac centennial coverage today with a piece suggesting NZ’ers were pawns in a “very dirty British game” at Gallipoli.

First, at the time of the First World War, New Zealanders regarded themselves as British, so can hardly be called pawns of the British.

The reporter, one Kurt Bayer (one hopes from his name that his ancestors weren’t on the other side in World War 1 — unlike our Freyberg and in the next war our Kippenberger), bases his claim on a book on the Gallipoli campaign by one Peter Hart. Hart apparently asserts that it was British treachery in 1914 for the British to seize two battleships being built for the Turks – while the Turks were still neutral.

This claim is rubbish. When war broke out, Britain was building four “super dreadnought” battleships for foreigners – two for Turkey and two for Chile. The two for Turkey were nearing completion, the Chilean ships were further from launch.

The Turks’ Sultan Osman 1 had fourteen 12in guns and the Reshadieh had ten 13.5 inch guns. The British, who had been in a naval arms race with Germany, felt they desperately needed the two battleships, and took them over before delivery to the Turks. Churchill, as First Lord of the Admiralty, said at the time that Britain’s battleship number margin over the Germany meant it needed the ships, and said two fully equipped battleships would be given to the Turks at the end of the war, plus there would be a payment of a thousand pounds a day as long as the British held the two undelivered warships. The offer would stand only while Turkey remained neutral.

Of the two Chilean battleships, the first was requisitioned to become the British battleship Canada, and the second, also requisitioned, was finished as the British pioneer aircraft carrier Eagle in 1918.

The stand-off between the Royal Navy and the German battleship fleet was perhaps the most crucial part of World War 1. The British commander, Jellicoe, was described as the only man who could lose the war in an afternoon. (Jellicoe was later Governor-General of NZ.)

Seizing equipment under construction for foreigners, especially those who might use them against you if they came out of neutrality on the wrong side, is in no way “treachery”. It’s common wartime practice. Admittedly, the Ottoman Turks, who had sent crew to Britain for the first ship, were upset, but this incident cannot have been the cause of their entering World War 1 on the German side. They would have known the battle fleet was Britain’s core defence against Germany.

Taking over foreign powers’ ships in wartime is something New Zealand knows about. We seized the Finnish sailing ship, the Pamir, in 1941, as a war prize when the brave Finns were fighting for their survival against the Soviet Union. (We did give it back in 1948.)

Let’s hope the Hooerald Anzac centennial coverage improves sharply from here. It can’t get much worse.
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April 10, 2015 11:06am
dime

R.I.P Richie. Summer will never be the same.

A gentleman and a legend.
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April 10, 2015 11:12am
cha

Thanks for the memories Richie.
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April 10, 2015 11:15am
kowtow

fraggle and jack 5

That Gallipoli article is disgusting. A Turk wants an apology from NZ when Turkey refuses to even acknowledge the Armenian genocide. Fuck off.

Tell ya what ,Turkey needs to be broken up further. The various ethnic and religious minorities there are entitled to their own homelands away from the oppressive Sunni Turk. Likewise they need to get out of Occupied Cyprus. And stop assisting ISIL.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKEC2FCo76c
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April 10, 2015 11:16am
big bruv

RIP Richie. This is a very sad day indeed.
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April 10, 2015 11:36am
Manolo

The importance of having friends in high places: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3032394/Google-Obama-White-House-sitting-tree-search-giant-s-relationship-president-stretches-2007-cozy-be.html

Google employees donated $1.6 million to President Barack Obama’s two White House bids.

In the 2012 election, the company’s search algorithm customized results for Obama but not for Republican Mitt Romney.

Google execs who have left to work in the White House include Obama’s chief technology officer.

Hillary Clinton also poached her new tech chief from Google this week.
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April 10, 2015 11:48am
backster

RF “I am told there is a photograph in today’s Christchurch Press with Stephen Joyce opening a building China. With him are Chinese officials plus two Maori warriors up front with rolling eyes and protruding tongues. Standing next to Joyce is a Maori female also with rolling eyes.”

So long as they have been briefed not to have a glass of milk.
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April 10, 2015 11:54am
cricko

Ayatola Khomeni vs Barry Obama and John Kerry.

This should be declared a ‘no contest.’

Poor old Obama and Kerry have no clue.

http://www.amazon.com/You-Can-Negotiate-Anything-Negotiator/dp/0553281097/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1428623235&sr=1-1&keywords=you+can+negotiate+anything+herb+cohen

If you read this 20 something year old treatise on negotiating you will see how Iran is following the “Russian”
negotiating tactic to the letter and will end up winning hands down and Obama and Kerry, supposedly acting on behalf of the free world lose.

Not only has this incompetant community organiser Obama increased the US debt by more than all other presidents
combined, he has made more foreign policy cockups than all other presidents combined.

Now today he reveals even more of his true colours, sending out childish tweets mocking PM Netanyahu.
Incredible. Talk about a petulant boy trying to do a mans job.
Maybe Dick Cheyney had it right when he said Obamas real agenda is to sabotage the USA.
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April 10, 2015 12:07pm
Jack5

Further re the appalling article on Gallipoli in the Hooerald today, and further to Kowtow’s 11.16 on Turkey wanting an apology, which I hadn’t heard about.

The Turks were quite brutal to Allied prisoners. The handful of New Zealanders captured at Gallipoli were among British prisoners forced to clean caked blood out of churches in Instanbul/Constantinople where they Armenian Christians seeking sanctuary had been butchered by Turks.

The focus on Gallipoli, also, should not overshadow the New Zealand Mounted Rifles Brigade, which as part of the Anzac mounted division, was a spearhead under Allenby as he drove the Turks north out of Palestine. This was a brilliant British campaign, and we can be as proud of our farm-boy mounted troops’ part in it, as we are proud of the New Zealanders’ performance at Gallipoli.
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April 10, 2015 12:17pm
IGM

The Herald is once again proving to be a disgusting and foul left-wing media outlet. Their article demanding we apologise to the Turks has just gone a bit too far. It may be OK in Labour Caucus where they are either rainbows, pacifists, or conshies, but it does not ring for decent NZers. When one looks at Armstrong, you can imagine his jealousy and hatred of anyone of substance and monetary success . . . he highlights the type of person Media Works are dumping currently, and hope he is next on the block . . . then Vance and Campbell (Fairfax).

Wonder if Campbell will become Slobcrim’s PR consultant, he may get a Benz to replace the Mazda.
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April 10, 2015 12:18pm
kowtow

The “gallant Turk”. A lot of them weren’t Turks at all. From Al jazeera (yeah I know, but it is a different perspective)

“Galliopoli was one of the biggest Allied defeats of the war. But it is not well-known that as many as 300,000 of Mustafa Kamal’s Ottoman forces in the campaign were Arabs from Greater Syria – present day Syria, Lebanon, Jordan and Palestine.”

http://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/specialseries/2014/11/world-war-one-through-arab-eyes-20141114133936678600.html
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April 10, 2015 12:26pm
Scott Hamilton

‘The focus on Gallipoli, also, should not overshadow the New Zealand Mounted Rifles Brigade, which as part of the Anzac mounted division, was a spearhead under Allenby as he drove the Turks north out of Palestine. This was a brilliant British campaign, and we can be as proud of our farm-boy mounted troops’ part in it’

Proud of this?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surafend_affair
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April 10, 2015 12:42pm
stephieboy

kowtow before you get carried away with all your pomposity and circumstance regarding Gallipoli its well to have this timely reminder of it and the wider theatre of WW 1 ,

The Indians need their Anzac moment ,

“….Of the over 1.3 million Indian troops, 700,000 were pitted against the Ottoman Empire. In Gallipoli they formed part of the Australia New Zealand Division. Of the 5010 Indian soldiers who served in Anzac, 1926 died and 3863 were wounded….”

http://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/local-news/local-blogs/dark-matter/9985718/Why-Indians-need-their-Anzac-moment
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April 10, 2015 1:00pm
Jack5

Re Scott Hamilton at 12.42…

I knew some “patriot” would bring up the village massacre, which occurred after an Arab thief knifed a pursuing NZ soldier. The New Zealanders, incensed at the thievery that was occurring, then seemed to have run amok.

It was a bad incident, and Allenby expressed his disgust, but that doesn’t take away the brilliant fighting performance of the NZ Mounted Rifles in the Palestine campaign. I think the NZ mounted troops’ rescue of a surrendering battalion of Turks from being massacred by Arabs alone more than balances this incident.

Give the thick Bayer a phone call, Scott Hamilton, and tell him about it. Doubtless the Hapless Hooerald will then use it to take the edge off Anzac commemorations. Bayer is unlikely to be interested in anything about the 2 million Armenian Christians they butchered (a prelude to their later butchery and rapes and ultimately exile of Greeks on the coast), or the Turks’ brutal treatment of Allied prisoners, so save your breath there.

Re Stephieboy’s rather pointless diversion at 1.00 suggesting a statue to the Indians at Gallipoli: well let the Indians erect one, Stephieboy, and perhaps you can one organise for the French and British, both of whom, I think you will find, lost more troops killed at Gallipoli than the Australians and New Zealanders.
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April 10, 2015 1:00pm
dime

“Proud of this?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surafend_affair”

im all good with it. they should have given the murderer up. its a war dumb asses
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April 10, 2015 1:03pm
Padriv Ustoev

Clarkson is to be replaced by a lesbian woman. You could not make this shit up BBC.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/entertainment/news/article.cfm?c_id=1501119&objectid=11430583
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April 10, 2015 1:05pm
Manolo

The lardy Queen is about to take off: http://www.businessinsider.com.au/hillary-clinton-will-announce-her-campaign-this-weekend-2015-4

A source with knowledge of Hillary Clinton’s plans has confirmed she will officially announce her 2016 presidential bid on Saturday or Sunday. This will be imminently followed by campaign travel.
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April 10, 2015 1:39pm
kowtow

“The Indians need their Anzac moment ,”

So who’s stopping them? They’ve thrown off the oppressive white man’s yoke.

” im all good with it. they should have given the murderer up. its a war dumb asses”

ditto. The Muslim Arabs of the Palestine Mandate were notorious robbers, thieves and brigands ,it was an appallingly lawless place. The Jewish migration and establishment of the State of Israel was the best thing that happened to that place since the last crusade.
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April 10, 2015 1:46pm
Manolo

The Jewish migration and establishment of the State of Israel was the best thing that happened to that place since the last crusade.

And still is. Long live the Jewish State!
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April 10, 2015 1:51pm
stephieboy

kowtow, tsk,tsk, tsk !

Then we can safely say TE Lawrence was a traitor and we really should of supported the Turks against him and the Arab revolt he lead ?

Also allied with them at Galliopli ?
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April 10, 2015 2:16pm
Mr_Blobby

Having a good smile right now.

Just had my latest Speed Camera Ticket dismissed by the Judge.

Only took 13 Months.
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April 10, 2015 2:20pm
wikiriwhis business

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zjd7ul3bOIo
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April 10, 2015 2:32pm
wikiriwhis business

The above banker was worth $2.6B and his funds were immediately seized after his death
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April 10, 2015 2:33pm
wikiriwhis business

“What purpose did the Maori face pullers serve by attending and why do Maori persist in making these wierd looking faces that must leave strangers shaking their heads in bewilderment. ”

You Nat supporters must shakes your heads with how National has supported the Raupatu settlements and delivered iwi their financial grievances.

In fact, I too wonder why National has addressed most of the settlements and administered the grievances.

Doug graham was a huge influence in addressing and signatoring the pay outs. The mind boggles.

The obvious agenda is rule by division and create a bigger wedge in race relations.

But as Winston pointed out the Indians are taking all the jobs. Muslims and Chinese are infiltrating the nation.

Muslim sleeping cells are awaiting orders to start blowing up buildings which won’t include the Beehive but public buildings like the Britomart where only the low income will be affected. Why don’t the Muslims blow up the Godless Communist Chinese. But no, it’ll always be the poor.

And that’s why I hate Terrorists.

If they really wanted to hurt the US they would have bombed Wall St the UN and the Fed.
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April 10, 2015 2:45pm
Scott Hamilton

‘im all good with [the Surafend massacre]. they should have given the murderer up. its a war dumb asses’

The war was over, and the one hundred and twenty villagers killed included women and kids.

You’ve no problem with that?
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April 10, 2015 2:48pm
stephieboy

wiki, the facts are a number of those “bankers “were either not bankers,retired or had left the banking industry altogether .Also e.g the Morgan Banking group employs at least 250 ,000 so there is a statistical likelihood at issue there too,

https://skeptoid.com/blog/2014/03/03/why-are-bankers-killing-themselves-in-droves/

It would be intersting to make comparisons with say the legal , Medical and other areas of business and industrial endeavour .
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April 10, 2015 2:48pm
Fletch

Don’t believe it when Iran says it has agreed on a deal…

All of this reminds me of a decade-old story. Back in the Bush years, negotiations with Iran were entrusted to a three-power contact group: Germany, France, and the United Kingdom. I once spoke with one of the lead negotiators during a dinner at his nation’s embassy. He told me that repeatedly he and his Iranian counterpart would agree on some point—only for the counterpart to open the next meeting by denying that anything had been agreed the day before, casting them back to zero.

After this had happened more than once, the Western negotiator introduced a new tactic. He would have a member of his delegation take notes on the discussions in Farsi. At the end of the day, the Farsi-language notes would be presented to the Iranian counterpart for his review. “Have we understood everything correctly?” The counterpart nodded. “Would you then please kindly sign these notes to confirm that understanding?” The pen was produced, the document signed.

The next meeting opened as usual, with the Iranian counterpart rescinding everything that had been agreed at the last meeting. The Western negotiator triumphantly produced the signed minutes. The Iranian glanced contemptuously at the paper. “That’s not my signature,” he said.

http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2015/04/the-iran-deal-now-you-see-it-now-you-dont/390123/
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April 10, 2015 2:48pm
stephieboy

Fletch, as I said to you earlier,

“By their fruits Ye shall know them .”
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April 10, 2015 2:51pm
Scott Hamilton

‘It was a bad incident, and Allenby expressed his disgust’

He called the Anzac troops who carried out the massacre ‘cowards and murderers’. It’s hard to see how that be reconciled with claims that we should be proud of them today.
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April 10, 2015 2:52pm
Fletch

Then we can safely say TE Lawrence was a traitor and we really should of supported the Turks against him and the Arab revolt he lead ?

The effect of Lawrence of Arabia (the movie etc) has done a lot of damage as to how to West interacts with the Arabs.

http://www.investigativeproject.org/4256/guest-column-the-final-death-of-lawrence-of-arabia#
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April 10, 2015 2:54pm
Scott Hamilton

Here’s an account of General Allenby’s repsonse to the Anzac massacre at Surafend:

‘General Allenby paraded the entire Anzac Mounted Division, and in a short speech “told page them off.” After stigmatising the men who held such a high record of achievement and honourable service in the field as murderers, he said with dramatic effect: “Once I was proud of you—I am proud of you no longer”—turned on his horse and galloped away.’

So these troops’ own commanding officer was ashamed of them. Was he also a ‘traitor’ determined to undermine our armed forces?
http://alh-research.tripod.com/Light_Horse/index.blog/1934001/surafend-the-massacre-palestine-10-december-1918-briscoe-moore-account/
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April 10, 2015 2:55pm
Jack5

Here’s what Scott Hamilton omits from his report of the incident in his 2.55 post:

As no evidence was forthcoming at the subsequent Court of Enquiry, the blame for this massacre could not be fixed on any individuals or section of men. As it had been to avenge the death of a New Zealander perhaps official suspicion tended to lie on the New Zealanders. The only comment that can be made in the absence of knowledge is that such a thing was inconsistent with their good record.

AND:

The Brigade remained in bivouac at Richon until a few days before Christmas, 1918. It was during this period that the trouble over the adjoining native village of Surafend occurred. It was a regrettable affair, but since various more or leas inaccurate accounts of it have appeared in the press it is well that the truth should be briefly told here. Mention has been made before of the treachery of the natives—our men had suffered under this without the opportunity of redress throughout the Campaign, and the feeling against them was here to come to a head with, tragic results.

Adjoining the bivouac of Richon was the village of Surafend, the natives of which indulged in constant thieving from the camps near them. One night a trooper of the New Zealand machine-gun squadron was awakened to find his kit-bag being dragged under the flap of his tent by some thief outside. He immediately arose and grappled with the native. The robber was armed with a revolver, with which he shot his assailant in the abdomen, the New Zealander shortly succumbing to a mortal wound. This outrage brought the resentment against the natives amongst the men of the Anzac Mounted Division to fever heat. Had some drastic steps been taken immediately by the authorities to bring the murderer to book further tragedy might have been averted. What was done evidently appeared insufficient to the men by the evening of the following day, so that their anger flamed into action and resulted in their taking matters into their own hands. This they did soon, after dark, when hundreds of men representing every unit in the Anzac Division, New Zealanders, Australians, and English Artillerymen, surrounded the village of Surafend. The native women and children were first put out of harm’s way, and then the men, fired by hate of the people who had brought death to one of their number, entered the village, set fire to it, and clubbed the male inhabitants. A Bedouin camp situated nearby was treated in like manner, a total of thirty-eight natives being killed in vengeance for the murdered trooper.

Note also the different number from that quoted by Scott Hamilton in an earlier post, and the account here also says no women and children were involved.

Where did you get the fact that women and children were murdered, Scott Hamilton? A PR site for ISIL?
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April 10, 2015 3:30pm
stephieboy

Fletch, I don’t think Lawrence of Arabia is any less a romanticising of the Arabs than Exodus is of Israels .I think in time we have hopefully a more balanced and saner perspective of both than your Israel “Expert’s totally biased diatribe and it’s totally contempuous ,and dismissive attitude towards Arabs in general.

Again do you think we fought in the wrong side at Gallipoli and TE Lawrence should if been shot or strung up for high treason ?
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April 10, 2015 3:35pm
Jack5

I’ve just had a look at Scott Hamilton’s web site.

It’s interesting!

Scott, I apologise for my quip that you might have got some information about the World War 1 village massacre from an ISIL site.

But Scott, you’re wrong about the NZ mounted infantry. They were good, brave guys. Have a look at Ion Idriess’s book The Desert Column.
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April 10, 2015 3:48pm
Scott Hamilton

Fair point about the women and children, Jack5. It looks a though the able-bodied men were separated from the women and children and then beaten and stabbed to death with bayonets and sticks and in some cases thrown down wells. I was only vaguely aware of this atrocity until looking it up. It interests me partly because it echoes some of the collective punishments that troops meted out during the Waikato War.

I’d suggest that, if you want to find reasons to feel patriotic, then you should not try to find them amidst the complexities and barbarisms of wars. Better to cheer the Black Caps or take a walk in the mountains.
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April 10, 2015 3:52pm
Jack5

Scott, there of course can be excesses of patriotism. But I disagree that you find patriotism more appropriately at cricket (under arm bowling and bouncers!), and I’m not sure how you can feel patriotic in the mountains. Patriotism relates to nationalism, and I’m not sure how you can be nationalistic about mountains, unless it’s some sort of pissing contest like our mountains are higher than yours.

I’m not sure admiration of military bravery can only be related to patriotism, either. You can recognise the appalling behaviour of German troops, including the regular German Army, in Russia, Poland, and other countries in World War 2, yet still admire the bravery of German paratroopers including in Crete against our grandparents, parents, uncles. While recognising the occasional naval war crime such as machine-gunning merchant seamen, it’s still possible to admire the bravery of U-boat crews. You can hate the Japanese beheading of 17 young NZ coast watchers in Tarawa in 1942, and yet still appreciate Japanese soldiers’ suffering and bravery as outlined in the film Letters from Iwo Jima.
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April 10, 2015 4:12pm
Akaroa

Several references to ‘Lawrence of Arabia’ here today.

I’m no T E Lawrence expert, but as he was at one time in the RAF and served at Cranwell – as I did in 1951 – I’ve had a passing interest in this bafflingly complex and psychologically troubled man.

I recommend those who want to get an idea of what made Lawrence tick – or rather NOT tick – to read his book ‘The Mint’. Its a diary of the time he spent at the RAF recruit training centre at Uxbridge between August and December 1922 after he joined the RAF post-WW1 as ‘352087 Aircraftsman Ross’

Reading his thoughts set out in that book leave one in no doubt that he was – as they say today – ‘damaged’, probably following treatment he experienced at the hands of Turks in the Middle East during WW1. (Turkey was allied to Germany then

He doesn’t say so directly, but its pretty clear that he was sodomised when captured by Turks allied to Germany.

Having after the War joined the fledgling RAF under an assumed name, the RAF eventually realised who he was, and he spent later years in a sinecure at RAF Cranwell where his main interest seems to have been in his monster Brough motorcycle – which he called ‘Boanerges’

A complex character indeed was our Lawrence. (I fear that these days he’d be labelled a “Nutter” and totally ignored)
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April 10, 2015 4:12pm
Jack5

Re Akaroa at 4.12.

Well T.E. Lawrence had good taste in motor-cycles. The Brough Superior is still loved by the two-wheel cognoscenti.

http://www.broughsuperiormotorcycles.com/
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April 10, 2015 4:19pm
bc

IGM: ” I could wear out my keyboard…”

Please no. Your daily rants (always minutes after GD begins for the day, it’s like you have been storing them up in expectation) always amuse me first thing in the morning. I’d miss those daily doses of crazy.
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April 10, 2015 4:43pm
donaldk

Scott H , Suggest you read the ‘ The Story of Two Campaigns” or ‘The New Zealanders in Sinai and Palestine’, to understand the frustrations of the soldiers at the murder of the soldier by the thief. Surafend was an example of bottled up frustration at the long running easy British Administrations handling of Arab crime as it affected the soldiers.( in their view ).
The village head misjudged the situation and would not give up the thief.
Significantly Arab thieving against the ANZAC’s stopped dead in its tracks.
Photos of burnt out Surafend are in the Kauri Museum at Matakohe.
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April 10, 2015 4:44pm
Scott Hamilton

‘Patriotism relates to nationalism, and I’m not sure how you can be nationalistic about mountains’

I would have thought that the cultural nationalism of guys like Pascoe, Brasch, Curnow, and Mulgan was strongly influenced by their experiences in the trekking and mountaineering movement in Canterbury (and in Mulgan’s case the central North Island) in the ’30s. Pascoe’s Unclimbed NZ and Mulgan’s Man Alone are classics of NZ nationalism, and their nationalism seems considerably more civilised than that of, say, the interwar and postwar RSA.
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April 10, 2015 5:34pm
Scott Hamilton

Those poor old coastwatchers certainly got a hard time. Better to be on the Auckland Islands than in the tropics back in WW2. A friend of mine is in Tarawa at the moment; it’ll be interesting to hear how the memorial at Betio’s doing
http://readingthemaps.blogspot.co.nz/2010/11/watching-and-waiting.html
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April 10, 2015 5:36pm
Scott Hamilton

‘Surafend was an example of bottled up frustration’

As were, I’m sure, many other wartime atrocities. But an explanation shouldn’t be the same thing as an excuse for beating and stabbing scores of unarmed men to death and chucking them down wells
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April 10, 2015 5:42pm
Viking2

New Zealand Herald editor-in-chief Tim Murphy has decided to step down, three years after he took up the role, publisher NZME says.

NZME publishes The New Zealand Herald.

NZME chief executive Jane Hastings said editor Shayne Currie would take on an expanded role across “all Herald brands”.

Murphy had been with the company for 30 years and said in a statement he believed now was the right time for another voice to lead its editorial.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/67686549/nz-herald-editorinchief-tim-murphy-steps-down
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April 10, 2015 7:08pm
Sponge

But an explanation shouldn’t be the same thing as an excuse

Well as far as I can tell it certainly worked in preventing any further issues.
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April 10, 2015 7:10pm
cha

The effect of Lawrence of Arabia (the movie etc) has done a lot of damage as to how to West interacts with the Arabs.

Ya reckon.
/

.

Do not mix Bedu and Syrians, or trained men and tribesmen. You will get work out of neither, for they hate each other. I have never seen a successful combined operation, but many failures. In particular, ex-officers of the Turkish army, however Arab in feelings and blood and language, are hopeless with Bedu. They are narrow minded in tactics, unable to adjust themselves to irregular warfare, clumsy in Arab etiquette, swollen-headed to the extent of being incapable of politeness to a tribesman for more than a few minutes, impatient, and, usually, helpless without their troops on the road and in action. Your orders (if you were unwise enough to give any) would be more readily obeyed by Beduins than those of any Mohammedan Syrian officer. Arab townsmen and Arab tribesmen regard each other mutually as poor relations, and poor relations are much more objectionable than poor strangers.

http://www.pbs.org/lawrenceofarabia/revolt/warfare4.html
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April 10, 2015 7:13pm
Nostradamus

The first rule of politics – if it moves – tax it…

Australian federal treasurer Joe Hockey said he would draft a new law that would oblige overseas firms to register and pay 10 per cent GST on services they supplied over the internet to Australian customers, after getting an in-principle agreement for the change from Australian state governments.

Hockey said Australia could net “billions of dollars” by taxing digital imports such as streaming music and television services, electronic books and online software.

The Australian government will also consider lowering the A$1000 (NZ$1017) threshold under which purchases from internet shopping sites can be imported to Australia tax-free. In New Zealand the limit is $400.

Similar moves are being considered by the New Zealand Government. Revenue Minister Todd McClay announced last month that he had asked officials to report back to him on the measures other countries were taking to collect taxes on digital imports.

*Sigh*

Does Todd McClay really think his officials are going to say “bad idea”?

What comes next? Tax on non-digital imports such as books and clothing?
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April 10, 2015 7:36pm
nasska

Informing you of your income before tax is like measuring your penis from the top of your spine.
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April 10, 2015 7:52pm
Scott Hamilton

‘Well as far as I can tell it [the massacre of Surafend] certainly worked in preventing any further issues.’

You’re not Michael Slager are you?
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April 10, 2015 8:15pm
Jack5

Scott Hamilton’s 5.34 post includes:

I would have thought that the cultural nationalism of guys like Pascoe, Brasch, Curnow, and Mulgan was strongly influenced by their experiences in the trekking and mountaineering movement in Canterbury (and in Mulgan’s case the central North Island) in the ’30s. Pascoe’s Unclimbed NZ and Mulgan’s Man Alone are classics of NZ nationalism, and their nationalism seems considerably more civilised than that of, say, the interwar and postwar RSA.

I’ve never read Pascoe, but Brasch (particularly), Curnow, and Mulgan are now fairly little known outside University English Departments’ “NZ literature 101” classes. Like the RSA old soldiers who are fading away, these authors also are fading into the past. Perhaps Brasch (particularly), Curnow, and Mulgan were phase two of the colonial cringe – this time when it was evaporating.

We don’t have to ponder about who we are and why. We’re just here in this remote archipelago.

The mounted infantry volunteers of World War 1 fighting in ancient Palestine might out-survive Scott’s “cultural patriots” as milestones in NZ’s history.
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April 10, 2015 8:21pm
Left Right and Centre

Feral fob update from lowlife central in Porirua . . .

Older fob – weird grey dust bunny hair – repulsive – $1 1980s jandals – the blank look on the face – looking blankly at baking ingredients – not buying anything of course. Picks up a jar of Hansells tartaric acid and takes the plastic lid right off to inspect the contents. Um- you’re breaking the plastic lid ring seal and not meant to do that you dumb fuck ignorant third world fob (exception would be if intending to then purchase).

Nah mate – just browsing, eh cuz ? Just perusing the products – a bit curious as to what all of these whizz bang things are that the white man sells.

What’s he going to do with tartaric acid, huh ? I watched on for a while – then given the chance took the jar and gave it to a shelf-filler. Who will probably just put it back anyway. Then his family are standing statue choking off the highest traffic volume main aisle natural bottleneck – useless braindead inconsiderate morons.

Any supermarket – but especially a fob’n’save – check surface area of every single item you intend to purchase. It might’ve been licked by fobs, opened up and put back, thrown around by their kids, sat on, dropped, used to scratch their crack and put back – anything.

They’re just so bloody wonderful. Third world primitive shit for brains – they don’t know anything mate – butt ugly space waste pain in the arse motherf&%kers.

How did I ever get to my age without ever learning that to open a shopping bag easily use wet fingers ? It’s changed my life – hahahaha – now that I finally own the technique – next they’ll be banned of course. I was so elated I even paid for the bag – *quantity 1* – now that’s classy.
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April 10, 2015 9:31pm
Jack5

We live in interesting times.

China’s sharemarket value has surged almost four trillion US dollars in less than a year to US$7 trillion (NZ$9.28 trillion, or 9.28 million million kiwi dollars).

Meanwhile, Bloomberg reports, bears in Shanghai are punting US$1.2 billion the market will fall.
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April 10, 2015 9:51pm
Jack5

Sorry, Left Right and Centre (9.31), but what is a fob?
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April 10, 2015 9:54pm
Left Right and Centre

Jack5 – hahaha – nice try. Take it somewhere else mate. Don’t try to be a smart c&%t.
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April 10, 2015 10:02pm
Scott Hamilton

People don’t have to read Brasch et al Jack5 – their ideas permeate society, and have done for decades.
I’m by no means an uncritical admirer of their sort of nationalism, as I explained in the first part of this essay
http://readingthemaps.blogspot.co.nz/2014/07/rak-mason-and-taste-of-kava.html
but it seems more benign than a myth of nationhood foudned on the shambles that was World War One.
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April 10, 2015 10:23pm
Scott Hamilton

‘The mounted infantry volunteers of World War 1 fighting in ancient Palestine might out-survive Scott’s “cultural patriots” as milestones in NZ’s history’

Don’t get me wrong: I think our military history is fascinating and important and should be studied and discussed. I am obsessed with the Waikato War, and with the Pacific front of World War Two. But the idea that we should feel either proud or for that matter ashamed of armed conflicts that took place a century ago seems a little quixotic to me. When Kiwis like you bang on about the spirit of Gallipoli or somesuch then I flash back to kava cirlces I attended in Tonga where locals boasted about how their ancestors kicked Samoan and Fijian arses centuries ago. It comes across as a bit desperate.
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April 10, 2015 10:32pm
Jack5

Re this to me in Scott Hamilton’s 10.32 post:

When Kiwis like you bang on about the spirit of Gallipoli or somesuch…

I’ve never mentioned the “spirit of Gallipoli” in Kiwiblog or anywhere else, ever. If you mean the tourism-like piligrimages to Gallipoli, I don’t see the point in them at all.

I agree, Scott, with you from your 10.23 link, R.A.K. Mason was an impressive poet. Here’s a philistine’s question: Did I read somewhere that the reason Mason wrote so tightly was because he was a student of Latin?

Nevertheless, Mason was a keen Communist, and given his active role in the People’s Voice over many years, Mason must have supported, or at least condoned, Stalinism, and perhaps later Maoism, with their horrors. He was dead bloody wrong in that, wasn’t he? Is that something to celebrate in our cultural history, or is Mason in hindsight more like a Kiwi version of Gorky and Sholokhov?
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April 10, 2015 11:11pm
Scott Hamilton

‘Did I read somewhere that the reason Mason wrote so tightly was because he was a student of Latin?’

I think he’s often compared to some of the Roman satirists and love poets. Impressive how he could be at once so modern and so classical. Mason wasn’t a communist when he published most of his poems, and in any case I’m not very keen on the idea that a writer’s politics set limits on the value of his or her poems. A lot of my favourite writers were right-wingers, and some were even, at one time or another, fascists.

In mid-century NZ, it was the communists who tended to have the cops and censors on their trail: http://readingthemaps.blogspot.co.nz/2014/08/caving-with-nicky-hager.html https://vimeo.com/113871193

I don’t think Mason was actually in the cave in Wiri, which is a bit of a pity, because I wanted to think I felt his spirit down there
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April 11, 2015 2:47pm

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