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March 8, 2015 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 8 March 2015

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General Debate

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UglyTruth

What the hell is it about that topic that gets people so worked up?

Faith in the system.
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March 8, 2015 8:35pm
Sponge

I am amazed at how worked up people get about the up and down votes here. I couldn’t care less about votes on my posts but some folks seem to really take it as a great insult if they are down voted.

I agree with Shawn – I too am mystified why people get so exercised about Bain. He other did it or he didn’t (no one will ever know apart from him) and no amount of arguing on here will ever make any difference. It seems that people get so entrenched in their positions they feel the need to try and convince others who have equally entrenched positions. I can’t see why they bother.

UT “Faith in the system.” Perhaps, but no system is perfect so there will always be miscarriages of justice. I personally have no faith whatsoever in trial by jury. I was on a jury that acquitted a guy who was clearly guilty in an assault as the complainant was such a vile piece of work that, in the jury room, the chairman said “well he is guilty but the complainant clearly deserved a clip around the ear”. While I was fairly astonished by the comment I, and all the other jury members agreed. Also in my line of work there are a lot of complicated legal cases that come up (especially since the earthquakes). Quite how 12 ordinary citizens are supposed to understand some of the complicated legal points involved makes me wonder. Trial by jury is a lottery.
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March 8, 2015 8:56pm
jcuk

For all the fuel being wasted as Aucklanders sit in traffic jams with their motors running the government/council could provide free public transport.
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March 8, 2015 9:05pm
jcuk

Microsoft must be struggling with these new ‘improved’ versions to give them away for free … no interest to me though …I just hope XP continues to work for me.
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March 8, 2015 9:12pm
jcuk

I take a down-tick as of great a value to my postings as an up-tick … it just shows the mentality of people.
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March 8, 2015 9:16pm
UglyTruth

Quite how 12 ordinary citizens are supposed to understand some of the complicated legal points involved makes me wonder.

It’s the judge’s job to explain the law to the jurors.
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March 8, 2015 9:37pm
UglyTruth

I just hope XP continues to work for me.

XP works best inside VirtualBox on a Linux system. 🙂
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March 8, 2015 9:39pm
Sponge

It’s the judge’s job to explain the law to the jurors.

Agreed but if the jurors have a minimal understanding of the critical points of the case then the judges explanation takes the decision from the juror to the judge. Shit, I know that if I was involved in a 3 week case as a juror I would struggle to remember all of the salient points.
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March 8, 2015 9:44pm
EAD

Are Captain Bananas and Stephieboy on the payroll of the US Government?

http://investmentwatchblog.com/u-s-government-to-unleash-trolls-to-attack-conspiracy-theorists-and-isis/
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March 9, 2015 7:21am
Oliver Twist

Sponge (363 comments) says: March 8th, 2015 at 8:56 pm. I too am mystified why people get so exercised about Bain. He other did it or he didn’t (no one will ever know apart from him) and no amount of arguing on here will ever make any difference.

You haven’t studied the case. The evidence is quite clear.

A vast amount of information became available through kiwiblog, to counter the campaign by Karam, with the NZ Herald right in behind him.

If you knew more you would see what is happening to our justice system. It’s not just about Bain getting maybe $8 million.
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March 10, 2015 7:38am
Nookin

Oliver

“A vast amount of information became available through kiwiblog, to counter the campaign by Karam, with the NZ Herald right in behind him.”

The greatest objection to the Bain threads is that they are riddled with sarcasm, abuse, ad hominem comments, statements which are palpably exaggerated and, on occasions, statements (on both sides of the argument) which are subsequently proven to be untrue.

The exchanges demonstrate a lot of ignorance and a lot of prejudice.

We have reached the stage where the same points have been thrown back and forth ad nauseam for so long that readers have had a guts full.

Nothing has been achieved. Nothing will be achieved. Instead, threads are terminally stuffed by commenters more intent on delivering derogatory epithets than advancing any sort of argument.

I have commented from time to time – usually on legal and procedural issues. I have an interest in seeing a properly concluded outcome. I have no interest at all in reading some of the crap splattered all over Kiwiblog – crap which, regretfully, detracts significantly from the blog’s attraction.
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March 10, 2015 7:59am
Oliver Twist

I have an interest in seeing a properly concluded outcome.

Well, clearly lawyers aren’t the people to ask. A right mess they’ve made of it. The jury system is an anachronism and the adversarial process just a contest between lawyers; the jury picks the winner.

What this Bain nonsense has shown is well known: It’s millions of times easier to spread doubt than the “truth”.

I knew next-to-nothing about Bain until I started reading kiwiblog and now I know a great deal. It pointed me at a lot of factual information. The photos of the corpse with the feet perhaps a metre away from the chair by the blood-stained curtains and the magazine on its edge don’t lie.

Then Binnie J, who produced an amateurish report that some academics think is fine, or even a model. Pathetic.
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March 10, 2015 8:54am

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