General Debate 6 March 2015

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EAD

Another superb post by Amy Brooke and her “100 Days to democracy” campaign and questions whether the State is in fact acting directly against it’s citizens best interests:

https://100daystodemocracy.wordpress.com/2015/03/05/john-key-prioritising-communist-chinese-interests/

A highlight of mine was this description:

“However, the word democracy, as applied to New Zealand, is rather an optimistic description of what this country has become in recent years, in the hands of ideologically programmed Prime Ministers and ministers bent on getting their own way.”

And it concludes damningly:

“Is the Key-led government simply incompetent? Or is there a personal agenda at work here? It would not be the first time that an apparently folksy, charismatic, but basically very determined government leader has over-ruled those asking well-overdue questions.”
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March 6, 2015 8:03am
Pete George

The Northland poll result from 3 News shouldn’t be a surprise when you look at the imbalance of coverage they (and some other media) are giving Peters.

It’s an extreme example of media driven democracy.

Paddy pimping Peters shows how much Winston is being promoted.

In stark contrast to 3 News coverage of Labour’s Willow-Jean Prime (and National’s Mark Osborne).

If media had their way the other candidates would be scrubbed off the ballot papers.
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March 6, 2015 8:03am
Manolo

Will today’s feeble euro recover? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/11451105/European-Central-Bank-readies-for-quantitative-easing.html

ECB raises funding for Greek banks as euro falls to 12-year low.
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March 6, 2015 8:05am
Harriet

Amazing that when Kiwis go and live in Muslim countries they must abide by Muslim rules, yet when Muslims move to NZ they want NZ to accomodate their beliefs and practises.

Arrogance has never been seen as a deeming quality by Kiwis. They will never fit in with that attitude.
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March 6, 2015 8:08am
itstricky

If media had their way the other candidates would be scrubbed off the ballot papers.

Because he is a famous politician. Could have been Steven Joyce. Same reaction.
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March 6, 2015 8:10am
duggledog

Manolo

Are you looking forward to the U.K. election? UKIP leader Farage is holding back on announcing his policies.

I would too, because here’s what will happen: Cameron will pinch a couple of the more populist ones, go ‘all right all right’ to the British and tell them what they want to hear to get over the line and once Conservative are re-elected drop them and carry on.

The U.K. is f***ed
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March 6, 2015 8:10am
Pete George

It is very unlikely to have been the same reaction for Steven Joyce. Media rejoice over the chance to promote Peters.

And in Northland they seem to have an additional agenda – to clobber National over Sabin.
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March 6, 2015 8:13am
Nukuleka

I am genuinely baffled by the way that the Herald is wilfully attempting to jeopardise our national security with its concerted campaign to undermine our security agencies. It can’t just be a ploy to boost sales, surely? There seems to be a genuine desire on the part of David Fisher in particular to use stolen/ hacked material and to collude with anti-establishment figures to do all that he can to discredit those whose job it is to protect NZers.

I think that it is time for John Key to lay it on the line. Bugger the pc nonsense about NZ having no enemies and being so safe down here at the bottom of the world. Bugger the anti-US rhetoric from the left. Bugger offending our friends if at times that is a necessity. We either have security agencies who are permitted to get on with their job of protecting the best interests of our country and its citizens or NZers should be prepared to take the consequences.

Most NZers would be behind the PM were he to take an unequivocal and tough line on this.
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March 6, 2015 8:14am
Padriv Ustoev

Ohhh Auckland City Council, how we love you.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11412560

I understand that in New Zealand it is not customary to fire poor performing staff. But at least a public flogging?
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March 6, 2015 8:17am
Harriet

Key got stuck into Labour over ISIS in the ME.

This is what the NZ intelligence agencies are for: to detect terrorists in the Pacific – for their governments to eventually handle.

Millitaries, policing and intelligence go hand in hand where terrorists are concerned.

Key should now tear Hager and the Herald a new arshole like he did with Labor.
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March 6, 2015 8:21am
hj

Emulsifier-induced metabolic syndrome was associated with microbiota encroachment, altered species composition and increased pro-inflammatory potential. Use of germ-free mice and faecal transplants indicated that such changes in microbiota were necessary and sufficient for both low-grade inflammation and metabolic syndrome. These results support the emerging concept that perturbed host–microbiota interactions resulting in low-grade inflammation can promote adiposity and its associated metabolic effects. Moreover, they suggest that the broad use of emulsifying agents might be contributing to an increased societal incidence of obesity/metabolic syndrome and other chronic inflammatory diseases.

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v519/n7541/full/nature14232.html
No more margarine, mayonnaise, chocolate; no more Chrons Disease?
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March 6, 2015 8:21am
Paulus

Please tell me somebody like Hagar –
How do you stop New Zealand and its citizens being spied on by China, India and France who do it all the time and have been doing so for some time since Lange set up the GCSB ?
Their satellites are monitoring not only us but the whole of the Pacific in their spheres of interest.

And the data Hager is using from Snowden is from 2009.
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March 6, 2015 8:30am
Lucia Maria

Today’s Dominion Post Editorial is likely to set a number of people off: Putin now a menace to peace in Europe
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March 6, 2015 8:34am
Harriet

Today’s and every other day’s Dominion Post Editorial is likely to set a number of people off: Islam is not a menace to peace in Europe.
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March 6, 2015 8:36am
oldpark

The so called TV3 Poll for Peters. Peters sycophants were out in force on that poll. A more balanced poll on Stuff give Peters as an also ran, or a little boy lost, out of his depth. Wonder why the sick cloth capped trade union infested, Main Stream Media, have conveniently decided to omit publication of both polls. Maybe it slipped their notice, or maybe they should be doing something more useful, instead of day in and day out, attempting to denigrate John Key and his very successful National Government.
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March 6, 2015 8:39am
waikatogirl

Padriv : I understand that in New Zealand it is not customary to fire poor performing staff. But at least a public flogging?
***

You can’t just fire staff on the spot these days. It is a long slow procress of ‘managing’ even very bad employees to move on.
Public floggings, now there’s a thought…
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March 6, 2015 8:46am
Andrei

The botoxed warrior if huffing and puffing again

How many more wars does this idiot want to start?
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March 6, 2015 8:50am
G152

These claims from Hager come from information stolen at latest in 2012..
Time to put him and his cohorts in MSM in court charged with giving
comfort to enemies with, hopefully, a firing squad reward in their future.
Traitors the bloody lot of them
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March 6, 2015 8:51am
hj

“Finally we come to the financial media, which rarely features anything original or challenging to the bullish consensus. Dissenting voices are either dismissed or treated as minor interruptions to an incessant flow of happy talk. For example, Mizuho Securities USA’s Chief Economist Steve Ricchiuto recently appeared on CNBC and told presenters Simon Hobbs and Sara Eisen that the U.S. economy is not “accelerating” and that the bullish consensus is nonsense. He left Mr. Hobbs and Ms. Eisen fairly sputtering in his wake. We likely won’t see Mr. Ricchiuto back on the air any time soon, which is a shame, because he was correct.”
The Kingdom Of Denmark
John Mauldin | Mar 04, 2015

and WTF with all the good talk about population growth?

“As “The Economist” points out, the developing economies stand to be every bit as disrupted by the technological tsunami as does the developed world. No longer are the forces of globalisation such a major windfall for them. The factories that not so long ago were being built all down the Chinese eastern seaboard to house workers from the fields, manufacturing the hardware of the ICT revolution – ipods, smartphones, tablets – as well as for that country’s burgeoning vehicle manufacturing, are all moving to robotics in order to maintain competitiveness. As a result of this, high tech manufacturing the US is now experiencing “onshoring” – a reversal of the offshoring trend where companies left to use cheap Chinese labour.”
http://garethsworld.com/blog/economics/technology-progresses-disrupts-jobs-workers-will-employable-lower-wages/

IEA report: US shale oil growth practically zero in 2017
http://www.resilience.org/stories/2015-03-03/iea-report-us-shale-oil-growth-practically-zero-in-2017
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March 6, 2015 8:51am
Kimbo

@ Harriet

Amazing that when Kiwis go and live in Muslim countries they must abide by Muslim rules, yet when Muslims move to NZ they want NZ to accomodate their beliefs and practises.

Arrogance has never been seen as a deeming quality by Kiwis. They will never fit in with that attitude.

Can you give some specific examples of “when Muslims move to NZ they want NZ to accomodate their beliefs and practises”? Requests and demanmds for accommodation beyond that of any immigrant group which can be deemed unreasonable, that is.
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March 6, 2015 8:55am
UglyTruth

These claims from Hager come from information stolen at latest in 2012..

Yet again the sound of knuckes dragging across the floor reaches out over the internets.
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March 6, 2015 8:57am
Simon

Although the RBNZ created the problem they clearly projecting a few years ahead and crapping themselves over the solvency of the trading banks. (been there done that back in 2008/09)

Bank run coming to NZ
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March 6, 2015 8:58am
Simon

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbwjS9iJ2Sw
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March 6, 2015 8:58am
Andrei

Lucia Maria, how can you be take such abysmal ignorance seriously.

There is no national leader on this planet who is more popular in his homeland than Vladimir Putin is in Russia and this is with good reason

And he has not bombed anyone!!!!

The threat he poses to the political elites of the West is that consistently shows how mediocre they really are
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March 6, 2015 8:59am
hj

Bank run coming to NZ
But if they clipped savings it would all be in the National interest (embracing globalisation would be suspended for 3 working days)?
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March 6, 2015 9:04am
hj

@ waikatogirl
I thought things like emulsifiers (detergents) would have been checked out years ago, but if there is a delayed interaction (including a genetic susceptibility) the results may not be obvious?
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March 6, 2015 9:11am
BeaB

Shouldn’t Anti Andy – or Helen Clark – be answering journalists about the GCSB.

After all, Labour set it up and the Snowden material ends in 2009 so most of the info covers the years when we had a Labour Government.
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March 6, 2015 9:12am
Paulus Gnome

Why would you trust lying Len as the Auckland Council IT budget blows out from $71million to $157 million.

Reading further down the report, I am heartened to see that ‘The council intends to absorb the extra cost within a $500 million IT budget over 10 years.’
Gee, that was close; I am so reassured now that I can see that it is only a mere $1,000,000.00 a week for the next ten years, numbers I can understand.

What I can figure is that mere million translates into something like 350 rate payers (at my current council rate) per week paying $500,000,000.00 over the next ten years.

Simplistically, it is 350 households not paying rates into the general pool for ten years, nothing towards upkeep or improvements, zip, zilch and that assumes the budget blow out stops at the mere $157,000,000.00

Pants down Brown and the loony yes men surrounding him have to go.
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March 6, 2015 9:13am
Maggy Wassilieff

@hj…8:21am
Why stop the list with just three items?…
The following are high in natural emulsifiers:
egg, mustard, butter, cream, soy products, milk, sunflower oil, corn , liver, wheat germ, fish, oats, rice, peanuts, aioli.

Anyway, must run, soy latte and eggs bene awaits.
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March 6, 2015 9:14am
Manolo

Confirmation that AGW intensifies and snow is a thing of the past, as “correctly” predicted by the warmmongers: http://www.boston.com/news/weather/2015/03/04/boston-gets-more-snow-inches-closer-record/OGc6FfWX7pJ6LXD4mRPxUM/story.html

The city of Boston is just a smidgeon over 2 inches away from setting an all-time snowfall mark. So far this winter, it’s got 105.5 inches, according to National Weather Service measurements taken at Logan International Airport.
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March 6, 2015 9:16am
JIV

A surprise from the Dominion Post yesterday with a half page opinion piece from a couple of well known Global Warming skeptics. Bob Carter and Bryan Leyland explain in detail why the hysteria is overhyped and how the real world is stubbornly not agreeing with the predictions made by the climate models.
Congratulations to the Post for allowing a second voice to the debate, however it is by no means a fair fight in the media.
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March 6, 2015 9:16am
kowtow

Carry over from last nights’ GD on “progressive” politicians.

Politicians of the left are deliberately rebranding themselves as “progressives”. Make no mistake, progress and the political term “progressive” have nothing in common.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_Alliance_%28political_international%29
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March 6, 2015 9:17am
minus

Winston may win Northland with his big bus emblazoned FORCE OF THE NORTH, and FOLLOW ME on the rear, and the song HELP IS ON THE WAY with Winston promising to champion Northland, in contrast to National’s ‘neglect’

And the TRUTH? New Zealand First appears NOT to have stood a candidate in Northland in the past three Elections – 2014, 2011 and 2008.

Can anyone verify that?
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March 6, 2015 9:19am
BeaB

If the Pacific Islands object to the GCSB activities, (not that any of them have so far), they can make their protest known loud and clear by:
1 Refusing to accept our aid money, tainted as it must be.
2 Shutting the door on NZ tourists.
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March 6, 2015 9:21am
kowtow

manolo

The pity of it is so many warmists believe in their new faith that as they try to look out of their snow bound houses over meter high or more snow drifts they’ll declare it is a result of “global warming”.

harriet

The Pacific . Not just terrorism.The Chicoms are making huge inroads there ,our literal back yard. Of course we need to know what’s happening.
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March 6, 2015 9:23am
Harriet

Kimbo#

“when Muslims move to NZ they want NZ to accomodate their beliefs and practises”?

C’mon Kimbo you know full well they have not made any contribution to the NZ health system like Christians have in the past, yet they demand and expect ‘prayer rooms’ in hospitals ect immediatly upon arrival of the first few thousand of them. And if you look at the stats in the UK and Aussie they are mostly welfare beneficeries who have negative net worth – and that’s after a generation! [Go have a look at the stats between the Muslims and Maronite Christians who arrived in Sydney in the late 80’s from Lebonon and see what I mean. They contribute next to nothing – as individuals and as a group!]

Some aussie meat and food companies now make food that is ALL Halal – and only label some of it – while making the rest of australia eat it without knowing. BUT – if the companies do that the other way around – by labeling food as Halal where it isn’t – they get prosecuted for false advertising. It’s either Halal or it’s not – and without a label it SHOULDN’T be Halal as Australia is not a country under Sharia law!
They also ‘average out the cost of Halal certification’ across products so that all customers end up paying for it.
[ Yes I know these are business decisions -but!]

Qantas took all pork off all airplanes so not to ‘offend’ Muslims – after a request was made. They also changed rules so that woman aircrew can wear head gear for religious reasons[I don’t have a problem with that], BUT at the same time they questioned[read ‘leaned on’] aircrew staff about their NEED to wear Christian crosses on necklesses ect; never mind the fact that 2 female aircrew had been wearing them for 2 decades!!

The pork practise is common now in Australia – sports grounds, swimming pools ect where the public attend are removing all pork and bacon products from all sale points. They harras pubs and shopkeepers ect in places dominated by Muslims over the sale of pork and alcohol ect. Some even approach the council over it – “because the majority who live here……

They segregate swimming pools. They are allowed to wear headwear into Aussie banks, Courts ect while EVERYBODY else isn’t!!

They complain to councils about the ‘offensive way’ women dress in ‘council buildings like libraries’.

They put the government and police into the position of turning a blind eye on their travels to Indonesia for FGM.

The list is bloody endless in Aussie – and if you get more of them in NZ then they will start on you lot.

BTW – I did say ‘want to’ and Muslims in aussie would be no different to the kiwi ones as Islam is Islam. 😎
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March 6, 2015 9:26am
Komata

Back to Hager (yes, again, sorry).

I notice that, inevitably, predictably (and solely on the strength of obsolete and stolen e-mails BTW), the gweens have filed a complaint against the activities of the GSIB / SIS because they are apparently ‘breaking the law’ by ‘spying’ on New Zealanders living and holidaying in the Pacific islands.

Really? and who gives a…?

Wussell and fwends really do not like the spooks (especially their association with the USA and Australia) and one has to wonder why this might be – what have THEY (the gweens) got to hide that is so important that they are willing to destroy (by any means, fair or foul), this country’s security services TO PROTECT THEMSELVES??

Perhaps THEY should be asked (nay, demanded – since it’s what the gweens do to everyone else), that they open ALL their relevant files, ‘books’ and correspondence so that all of New Zealand can see what their ‘records’ are like – in the interests of their often-touted ‘transparency’, of course.

Methinks there would be a lot of back-pedalling being done should such action be taken (or, at least, threatened).

Just a thought…
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March 6, 2015 9:30am
Ross12

hj

Do a little research about “I thought things like emulsifiers (detergents)” . Detergents work with an “emulsifying” action BUT not all emulsifiers are detergents. Egg yolks are emulsifiers, for example.
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March 6, 2015 9:43am
Duxton

A gracious and classy letter to a gracious and classy Kiwi ex-cricketer:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11412276
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March 6, 2015 9:46am
Manolo

Another day in a Muslim paradise:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/libya/11452114/Libya-chaos-deepens-as-Isil-strikes-threaten-to-halt-oil-production-and-government-bombs-Tripoli-airport.html

Libya may be forced to cease all oil production after suspected Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (Isil) jihadists attacked three oilfields and the national army bombed an airport in the capital Tripoli.
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March 6, 2015 9:46am
Lucia Maria

Andrei,

And he has not bombed anyone!!!!

Taking out a passenger plane with a buk could be considered bombing. So could the use of grad (and other) missiles in eastern Ukraine.
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March 6, 2015 9:46am
Andrei

Another day in a Muslim paradise:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/libya/11452114/Libya-chaos-deepens-as-Isil-strikes-threaten-to-halt-oil-production-and-government-bombs-Tripoli-airport.html

Libya may be forced to cease all oil production after suspected Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (Isil) jihadists attacked three oilfields and the national army bombed an airport in the capital Tripoli.

Perhaps if NATO hadn’t taken it upon themselves to bomb Libya into the stone age this wouldn’t be happening Manolo

Or perhaps Lucia Maria will come up with some weird and wonderful theory that Vladimir Putin is in some way responsible for this humanitarian catastrophe
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March 6, 2015 9:54am
hj

Amy Brooke asks how Key gets away with it. He wouldn’t do it without help from the left who riddle academia, politics and the media. This is an example “Unsettling the Settler”. They silenced expressions of nationalism.

Do Pākehā even qualify as an ethnic grouping? Ethnicity, sociologically understood,
speaks to shared memory and history, commonality of customs, language, religion
and world view (Smith 1987). Yet those labelled Pākehā have Scots, Irish, English,
Welsh, Croatian, Dutch and other ancestry, and all of the cultural and historical
differences that this entails. As arguably the foremost theorist of Pākehā ethnicity
has said of his own family: ‘We were New Zealanders, but Irish New Zealanders.
Although statistics may have lumped us among the almost ninety percent of the
population descended from the European migration, we did not feel like members of
a majority’ (King (1985:29). Those so lumped now occupy the same terrain and they
have the same skin colour. But beyond phenotype and physical location, what do
they share? David Pearson (1989) claims that Pākehā fall short of an actual ethnic
group, occupying the more nebulous position of ethnic category. James Urry
(1990:20-21) adds that even then ‘it is an empty category as it does not represent
an identity but merely means non-Māori’. And what sort of ethnic identity assumes
the shadow of the subject, and takes on the position of the Other (Bell 1996:154)?
Why do Pākehā take someone else’s name as their own?

UNSETTLING THE SETTLER

Edward Said
(1994:35) has written that in the imperial imaginary, the expanding West met
indigenes who were without agency and history. In the postcolonial period he notes
that their history has been restored. However, we might add, for the settler history
disappears as new sources of legitimacy are sought. Thus Jane Campion (1993:135)
could write: ‘In contrast to the original people in New Zealand, the Māori people, we
seem to have no history…’ Reshela DuPuis (1996:63) has offered a corrective, saying
that ‘It is not true that Pākehā have no history in New Zealand, and certainly not
true that they have no attachment to it. They simply have the conqueror’s luxury of
ignoring the ugly parts of it – a luxury the Māori have never had. As victors, they
have tried … to re-invent that history and erase competing memories of it’. ‘The
history of Māori resistance to the eighteenth- and nineteenth-century European
invasion of their homelands reveals one of the bloodiest, and longest, records of
defiance in the annals of western colonialism’ (DuPuis 1996:58), making true W.G.
Sebald’s (2005:82) assertion that ‘… those in whom memory lives on bring down
upon themselves the wrath of others who can continue to live only by forgetting’
(Sebald 2005:82). Where Fanon alluded to mimicry as Black Skin, White Masks, we
now see white skin and brown masks. What does settler indigeniety mask? Put
simply, privilege.

http://makingitinakl.blogspot.co.nz/2012/12/the-brilliance-of-doubt-meet-steve.html

“Yet those labelled Pākehā have Scots, Irish, English,
Welsh, Croatian, Dutch and other ancestry, and all of the cultural and historical
differences that this entails.”

I think that’s a knit-picking argument. You could say “some are from Auckland, some are from Invercargill” and if you go by the Wikipedia article you will see that there is a lot more happening with regard to the understanding of ethnicity from a sociobiological viewpoint than a sociological (neo Marxist) one.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_nepotism
The second paragraph is simply alleging a motive for claiming indigeneity .
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March 6, 2015 10:01am
Maggy Wassilieff

@hj 8:21

Look , I can’t locate any germ-free mice here in the wilds of outer Kaiti, so perhaps you could give me some advice as to how to go about getting a faecal transplant……do you think I’ll need to go on a waiting list?
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March 6, 2015 10:01am
Lucia Maria

Or perhaps Lucia Maria will come up with some weird and wonderful theory that Vladimir Putin is in some way responsible for this humanitarian catastrophe

Nope. As far as I know, nothing to do with Putin.
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March 6, 2015 10:01am
hj

With regard to a Pakeha ethnicity
“A Scotsman, an Englishman and an Irishman were walking down the street one day” Note they are on the same street and the French were the mortal enemies of the English but they are still in the same play (next door neighbours more or less). In a New Zealand context you would include the descendants of Chinese gold miners.
Michael King asks: “how long did it take polynesians to forget that they were from the Pacific Islands and see themselves as from here?”
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March 6, 2015 10:17am
Kimbo

@ Harriet

C’mon Kimbo you know full well they have not made any contribution to the NZ health system like Christians have in the past, yet they demand and expect ‘prayer rooms’ in hospitals ect

Their previous ‘contribution’ is irrelevant considering they have been largely absent. As I asked, what are they asking that other immigrant or special interest groups don’t? Prayer rooms?! Is that it?! All specific cultural needs are accommodated especially within our public health and education systems, and so they should. These folks pay taxes! Come on Harriet – get a grip!

And if you look at the stats in the UK and Aussie…

I thought you were referring to NZ. Remember? “…when Muslims move to NZ they…” Focus on the objective, Harriet/Field Marshal, focus!

…they are mostly welfare beneficeries who have negative net worth…

Ho hum. Turn back the clock and the same thing was said of Irish Catholics when they washed up in NZ (and Aussie, and Canada, and the USA) from the 1850s onwards. And it is an accusation still levelled against Pacific islanders. All of which is irrelevant/a side-stepping of your original charge, “when Muslims move to NZ they want NZ to accomodate their beliefs and practises”

Some aussie meat and food companies now…

Still not confining the examples to the place where you originally nominated? Come on – stop wandering off the Reservation.

Qantas took all pork off all airplanes…

Ditto. Serves the customer right for not flying Air NZ, which at least, compared to Qantas, is largely free of the interferring of the corrupt (‘scuse the pun) pork barrel politicians and expectations Australia cultivates in abundance.

And while we are talking of ingrates who demand everything their own way in their own country yet expect to be accommodated in ours, how about the bastard of an Australian PM who decided arbitrarily to cancel via a fax message the agreement for “open skies” in Australia when Ansett had been allowed to set up its stall in New Zealand a number of years previously? As Air NZ then was then forced into a shot gun wedding with the dog that was Ansett Australia and then the long-suffering NZ taxpayer bailed out Air NZ when the millstone around their neck sank…remind me again of who the bludgers are? Makes a bit of halal meat look like small change. And this from supposed “mates” whom we fight alongside, and bail out when a boat like the Tampa washes up in Australian waters.

The pork practise is common now in Australia…They segregate swimming pools. They are allowed to wear headwear into Aussie banks, Courts ect while EVERYBODY else isn’t!! They complain to councils about the ‘offensive way’ women dress in ‘council buildings like libraries’. They put the government and police into the position of turning a blind eye on their travels to Indonesia for FGM. The list is bloody endless in Aussie –

Are you ever going to get around to discussing New Zealand as per the parameters set by your original post?

BTW – I did say ‘want to’ and Muslims in aussie would be no different to the kiwi ones as Islam is Islam. 😎

FINALLY! You try to cover up the fact you’ve wandered like Moses and the children of Israel not reaching your destination as originally promised. Good to see you have the capacity for honest self-appraisal and I’ve never doubted that about you, Harriet/Field Marshall. 🙂

And to that last point I simply respond

1. Muslims, like any other interest group are free in our secular/non-sectarian society to put the case for a particular privilege in the public doman. Same as Christians (e.g., Bible in Schools. Also remember how we didn’t used to have trading on Sundays, and TV is still not allowed to advertise on Christmas, Good Friday or Easter Day), Maori, the LGBT community, Federated Farmers, whomever. And given our pragmatic common-sense approach, we generally decide that as long as privileging one group does not penalise or harm another then we will allow some accommodation.

2. That Muslim countries do not do the same is irrelevant for our state of constitutional affairs. We fought long and hard to create and presrve them, and we are not going to compromise them (as you imply we should) in a pointless tit-for-tat exchange for anyone. Which is why Muslims are free to come and live among us…as long as they do not infringe on the freedoms of others, and illegally and violently attempt to extract unreasonable accommodations from us. If they do…then the apparatuscurrently exissts (the police, the courts, the ballot box) to deal with it.
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March 6, 2015 10:17am
doggone7

Pete George @ 8:03 am

Are you serious about the coverage of Osborne compared to Peters? Mark Osborne became the candidate in the weekend, in an electorate that has little significance, that invariably elects a National MP regardless of who the candidates are, and when he is elected will sit in the back row asking patsy questions.

We appreciate the fact that suddenly people in the rest of the country are showing interest in the North. It’s a feigned interest. How lovely to have people caring from the far flung fields of Otago to the offices of Wellington. Arrogant nonsense. The concern is not about Northland but the fear that their jigsaw will not look right because one piece looks wrong, is wrong for the picture they want to see.

As expected Peter is capitalising on all he can. He was up and running and whether it’s ants to sugar or flies to shit the media is there.

The initial poll result will see more dummy spitting, distractions and galvanised National Party effort. Normal transmission will resume, Osborne will disappear into the back benches and Northland will disappear off the priority list. Again.
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March 6, 2015 10:18am
Manolo

Different rules for different people: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/03/05/clinton-used-personal-email-but-ousted-ambassador-was-chastised-for-doing-same/
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March 6, 2015 10:19am
hj

Maggy Wassilieff (659 comments) says

I don’t get the point of you’re joke? It’s a serious issue if detergeants in our food have been interfering with gut mucus and altering the balance between microbes and immune system. I recall crawling around the floor with a gut lining the surgeon described as “just full of liquid when we cut it”.
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March 6, 2015 10:20am
Shawn Herles

@ Andrei

“There is no national leader on this planet who is more popular in his homeland than Vladimir Putin is in Russia and this is with good reason”

Many Russians still think Stalin was a great man and a hero. So polls results for Putin, assuming the polls are kosher, are not an indication of how good a leader he is.

“And he has not bombed anyone!!!!”

Chechnya. Georgia. The Ukraine. Liar.

“The threat he poses to the political elites of the West is that consistently shows how mediocre they really are”

If he pushes too far he will only show how mediocre the Russian military is.
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March 6, 2015 10:32am
backster

Minus..”New Zealand First appears NOT to have stood a candidate in Northland in the past three Elections – 2014, 2011 and 2008.

Can anyone verify that?”

I believe the last candidate Nz First stood in the electorate was Winston’s brother. He came in 4th.
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March 6, 2015 10:33am
starboard

Winnie the political whore..what a piece of work. The ultimate trougher. Wheres our 158 K Peters ya thief ?
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March 6, 2015 10:35am
Lucia Maria

Harriet,

Today’s and every other day’s Dominion Post Editorial is likely to set a number of people off: Islam is not a menace to peace in Europe.

Not in comparison to Putin, it isn’t.

The problem with Islam is that Westerners tiptoe all around it rather than dealing with some of it’s more unpalatable aspects (such as clitorectomies that you bring up from time to time) head on. That’s far more dangerous than Islam itself.
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March 6, 2015 10:35am
Ross12

oldpark @ 8.39

I’m not doubting your word but where is the stuff poll you refer to ?

hj @10.20

“It’s a serious issue if detergeants in our food ” That’s a BS use of words as I pointed out above.
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March 6, 2015 10:36am
UglyTruth

Taking out a passenger plane with a buk could be considered bombing.

On July 16th, the Ukrainian Army positioned 3-4 anti-aircraft BUK M1 SAM missile batteries in the immediate vicinity of the MH17 crash site.

http://aanirfan.blogspot.co.nz/2014/07/aids-researchers-killed-in-ukraine-air.html
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March 6, 2015 10:37am
Shawn Herles

New Report Offers More Evidence Separatists Used a Russian Missile to Shoot Down MH17

“Newly discovered photographs allegedly provide more evidence that a Buk missile launcher suspected of downing Malaysian Airlines Flight 17 in July traveled from Russia to separatist-controlled areas in eastern Ukraine, further raising suspicions that the Kremlin was complicit in a war crime of grave proportions.”

https://news.vice.com/article/new-report-offers-more-evidence-separatists-used-a-russian-missile-to-shoot-down-mh17

Russia is not innocent.
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March 6, 2015 10:43am
Kimbo

@ Lucia Maria

The problem with Islam is that Westerners tiptoe all around it rather than dealing with some of it’s more unpalatable aspects (such as clitorectomies that you bring up from time to time) head on. That’s far more dangerous than Islam itself.

Good call.

There is nothing about Islam in the West that cannot be dealt with by a vigilant and informed populace enforcing the constitutional apparatus that currently exists…and calls to compromise those standards (e.g. imposing a personal religion test on prospective immigrants) fatally undermines those safeguards, rather than protecting our way of life. instead .
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March 6, 2015 10:46am
Lucia Maria

Ugly,

The Ukrainian army was not needing to shoot down planes because there were no Russian planes in the skies. While as the Russians, prior to MH17 coming down, already shot down a number of Ukrainian war planes.

I’d recommend reading through this: Evidence Review – who shot down MH17. It has far more information than your link.
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March 6, 2015 10:46am
cricko

Kimbo @ 10.17

Now that’s a very long rant with little substance kimbo.

Prof Ali, head sharang of islamic studies at Auckland uni has demanded a sharia banking system
be established in NZ

muslims have called for and been given their own sharia kiwisaver scheme here.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11253748

muslim women have appeared in the District Court in Auckland and heve been accomodated when
they demanded to give evidence whilst covered by their burkas.

Are you totally blind to the experience of all other western societies who have been stupid enough to
import muslims kimbo ?

Their demands for their ‘rights’ start to become strident when they hit 2% of the population.
A few more % and they begin to establish no go areas.
They will not integrate into host societies
Even in the UK they have demanded and been granted sharia law Courts to deal with certain, ‘cultural’
matters.
New Zealands experience will be no different.

We already have 60/70 odd muslims in NZ being
monitored by our security service because they are considered potential terrorists.
We have muslims living here that have attended terrorist training camps in Yemen.

And kimbo, can you point to a single western society where muslim immigration has been hailed a success ?
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March 6, 2015 10:53am
Maggy Wassilieff

@hj 10:20am…
Its not a joke.
You provide a link to a biomedical paper that postulates an hypothesis as to a cause of gut inflammation.
Then you give an arbitrary list of foods that contain emulsifiers (and perhaps not the 2 emulsifying agents discussed in the scientific paper)

As Ross12 9:43am has shown, you are seriously confused about the biochemical nature of emulsifiers and detergents.

I do not doubt that you have a serious problem with your gut….
So did my poor M-in_law. She wasted a fortune on “organic”, “natural” pills, potions, etc and natural & psychic healers.
Anyone and anything, but regular medical advice.

Faecal transplants (i.e. replacement of gut microbiota) may be a trendy new fad, or may be a recommended treatment. I asked you what you knew about them… as your referred paper mentioned them.
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March 6, 2015 10:54am
Harriet

“…..we generally decide that as long as privileging one group does not penalise or harm another then we will allow some accommodation….”

What I’ve listed isn’t reasonable Kimbo. Pork or beef have never been removed because of them ‘offending’ Jews or Hindus. And Jews and Hindus I don’t believe would even thinking of asking for that. They simply expect to have another option for themselves which is not unreasonable. Muslims unlike Jews have created situations where Aussies are now DENIDE a choice!

“….Ho hum. Turn back the clock and the same thing was said of Irish Catholics when they washed up in NZ…’

Kimbo – you are talking about 20yrs that muslims from Lebanon are still negative net worth….while at the SAME time the Maronite Christians are positive net worth – and have probably been so for a decade or more. And they arrived at the SAME time – from the SAME place!
As Pauline would ask “Please explain”. 😎

“….Muslims, like any other interest group are free in our secular/non-sectarian society to put the case for a particular privilege in the public doman….’

Agreed. But as soon as one council does something in the State……the rest simply follow suit if they are dominated by the likes of the Greens, Labour and other activist types – the public has no say [removal of pork from sports events ect] And some do it simply out of fear because of the trouble they see happening in councils in Western sydney ect.

“…..FINALLY! You try to cover up the fact you’ve wandered like Moses and the children of Israel not reaching your destination as originally promised. Good to see you have the capacity for honest self-appraisal and I’ve never doubted that about you, Harriet…’

Yes – life was of much better quality when Moses had all the tablets…… as he could at least read and understand the words “..want to..” ……. unlike you with your tablet! 😎
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March 6, 2015 10:54am
wf

I would possibly be far more tolerant of the Greens and their endless irrelevant campaigns, if any one of them were actual elected representatives of the people.
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March 6, 2015 10:54am
Lucia Maria

Thanks, Kimbo!
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March 6, 2015 10:58am
stephieboy

kowtow (9,446 comments) says:
March 6th, 2015 at 9:17 am

Now I wonder what’s your version of progress ?

Tea Party membership that way <<<<<<>>>>> Reality that way
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March 6, 2015 11:01am
UglyTruth

And kimbo, can you point to a single western society where muslim immigration has been hailed a success ?

Muslim integration into western society isn’t successful because of the incompatibility of the the atheistic/secular civil system and the theistic Islamic system.
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March 6, 2015 11:02am
Twinkletoes

Kimbo –

With reference to your reply to Harriet would you be prepared to accept muslims being allowed to practice Sharia law in their community and legally allowed four wives (three living on single mother’s benefits in a separate council house) as is happening in UK? Because this is what happens when the percentage of muslims increase to a number where their demands can become quite forceful.

Jihadi John’s family (described by a landlord as the neighbours from hell ) milked the benefit system in UK for twenty years (400,000 sterling) and were housed in not only council houses but private homes in wealthy suburbs all paid for by the taxpayer. Dad had a sometimes job as a mini cab driver. Their benefits are probably still being paid into their bank accounts in UK even tho’ they have fled to the country they originated from Kuwait.

And I bet that Johnny boy hasn’t repaid his student loan!
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March 6, 2015 11:02am
Shawn Herles

“There is nothing about Islam in the West that cannot be dealt with by a vigilant and informed populace enforcing the constitutional apparatus that currently exists”

The flaw in your argument Kimbo is in that sentence. We don’t have an informed populace preprepared to enforce our constitutional foundations.

I agree with you that we cannot and should not bar people on the basis of religious belief, as that would undermine the liberties we want to protect.

But we cannot continue to pretend that the problems created by large scale Muslim immigration are not serious, and very different to any other groups.

Yes, silly and inaccurate things have been said about various immigrant groups in the past, but the evidence from Europe is overwhelming regarding the negative effects of Muslim immigration.

The status quo is not a solution.
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March 6, 2015 11:14am
Fletch

Manolo, it is even worse than that. Hillary not only used her personal email account for all her govt business, she ran it from her own private server from home. As one blogger puts it, she was running her own government in parallel.

The computer server that transmitted and received Hillary Clinton’s emails — on a private account she used exclusively for official business when she was secretary of state — traced back to an Internet service registered to her family’s home in Chappaqua, New York, according to Internet records reviewed by The Associated Press.

Operating her own server would have afforded Clinton additional legal opportunities to block government or private subpoenas in criminal, administrative or civil cases because her lawyers could object in court before being forced to turn over any emails. And since the Secret Service was guarding Clinton’s home, an email server there would have been well protected from theft or a physical hacking.

But homebrew email servers are generally not as reliable, secure from hackers or protected from fires or floods as those in commercial data centers. Those professional facilities provide monitoring for viruses or hacking attempts, regulated temperatures, off-site backups, generators in case of power outages, fire-suppression systems and redundant communications lines.

http://news.yahoo.com/clinton-ran-homebrew-computer-system-081052887.html
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March 6, 2015 11:15am
UglyTruth

The Ukrainian army was not needing to shoot down planes because there were no Russian planes in the skies.

The shoot down wasn’t about need, it was about achieving a strategic political objective.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-danger-of-an-mh-17-cold-case/5426007

Either the Russian radar showed the presence of a jetfighter “gaining height” as it closed to within three to five kilometers of the passenger plane – as the Russians claimed in a July 21 press conference – or it didn’t. The Kiev authorities insisted that they had no military aircraft in the area at the time.

But the 34-page Dutch report was silent on the jetfighter question, although noting that the investigators had received Air Traffic Control “surveillance data from the Russian Federation.” The report also was silent on the “dog-not-barking” issue of whether the U.S. government had satellite surveillance that revealed exactly where the supposed ground-to-air missile was launched and who may have fired it.
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March 6, 2015 11:15am
Kimbo

@ Tw

With reference to your reply to Harriet would you be prepared to accept muslims being allowed to practice Sharia law in their community and legally allowed four wives (three living on single mother’s benefits in a separate council house) as is happening in UK?

Practice Sharia in their community? – I’d be very suspiscious, but it depends on what teh specifics are. As stated before the acid test is “does granting this privilege place an unfair burden on others, and/or infringe on their rights and freedoms in the public domain and/or undermine our constitution? Like Maori “courts” you would have to be eternally vigilant, but in principle I don’t have a problem. We already have Muslim and Maori and Catholic and Protestant and Protestant schools that can tap into public funds…

Muslim polygamy (or at least the recognition of a polygamous marriage that tool place outside NZ)? Possibly. But additional welfare benefits? As it would grant the privilege of extra publuic funds denied to others, then no, you can’t claim for more than one spouse.
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March 6, 2015 11:16am
Fletch

The GOP release ad attacking Hillary for accepting donations from overseas countries (many of them Arab).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTCu6-_uW0s
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March 6, 2015 11:17am
Kimbo

@ Shawn Herles

The flaw in your argument Kimbo is in that sentence. We don’t have an informed populace preprepared to enforce our constitutional foundations.

I’m not sure that is actually the case (we collectively did pretty well at the ballot box seeing through the Dirty Politics media and tin-foil hat circus last year).

But even if you are right, it reflects what Winston Churchill said: “Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time”
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March 6, 2015 11:21am
Fletch

In a copycat attack in Yemen, a group of seven boys put another 10 year old boy in a cage, doused him with petrol and set him alight. Luckily, people heard his screams and managed to save him.

https://themuslimissue.wordpress.com/2015/03/05/yemen-boy-10-locked-in-a-cage-and-set-alight-by-his-friends-in-imitation-of-islamic-state-murder/
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March 6, 2015 11:21am
Shawn Herles

Globalresearch is not a credible source of information. Like the other conspiracy fantasists here, Ugly is trying to build a case based on discredited conspiracy sites.

In short, he has no factual basis for his claims.
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March 6, 2015 11:23am
Fletch

Pissed Off Rednecks, a country song that has gone viral.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBh6lL6a7gE
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March 6, 2015 11:24am
Kimbo

@ Harriet

“….Muslims, like any other interest group are free in our secular/non-sectarian society to put the case for a particular privilege in the public doman….’

Agreed. But as soon as one council does something in the State……the rest simply follow suit if they are dominated by the likes of the Greens, Labour and other activist types – the public has no say [removal of pork from sports events ect] And some do it simply out of fear because of the trouble they see happening in councils in Western sydney ect.

I disagree that anything you have mentioned is an unreasonable request by Muslims. And remember, if you are a citizen you can request anything you want in the public domain. That is your right. Whether you will or should get it is another thing.

Which reinforces the point I made – the problem, if and when it exists, is cowardice on the part of politicians to enforce constitutional necessities..and a populace that does not hold them to account.
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March 6, 2015 11:26am
EAD

Shawn Herles,

you’re Cognitive Dissonance knows no bounds. Too long spent in the belly of the beast, you are a typical blustering American idiot who will never understand the way the world works until the hammer falls and even then, you’ll still be blustering away chanting USA, USA, USA.

Let me give you a little lesson about why Western “leaders” are blustering for a war. But before I do that I’ll spend some time telling you about our monetary system.

We have a debt-based monetary system. Money is created by making loans. Thus debt is simply the other side of the balance sheet to money. If you pay down debt then you wipe out of existence an equal amount of money. If this truly happened to any significant extent it would shrink the money supply and have catastrophic effects on our economy. That is why debt, has grown exponentially since 1971 since the people behind the Federal Reserve finally delinked the dollar from Gold and we went full fiat.

The way the system works, is that due to the effect of compounding, exponential debt interest, the overall debt in the economy must double roughly every 8 years. For the financial system to carry on working as it has since 1980, in the next 8 years, for every dollar borrowed since 1980, we need someone, anyone to borrow $2. Our system doesn’t allow for the debt to be repaid. Quite the opposite. Paying down debt is not possible without causing financial problems such as large scale defaults. Even slowing down lending will cause the same effect.

Just to hammer this very important fact home. Every dollar anyone in the World borrowed between 1980 and 2015, needs two dollars to be borrowed between now and 2023 just for things to return to normal. Should this be achieved, between 2023 and 2031, four dollars needs to be borrowed. For the next period eight dollars (see video below, start from 12.26 and watch for the next 3 minutes)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFDe5kUUyT0

I have been asked that surely if we have zero growth for a while then things will stay the same. No. Zero growth (0% GDP) will require 10% inflation and someone still has to borrow all the currency I mentioned earlier. What interest rate will the banks want if inflation hits 10%? Well, interest rates will need to stay as they are now.

The problem is, the above paragraph will make no sense to anyone. Obviously, lots of people will want to borrow, which is good. Unfortunately, on average, wages cannot increase and pensions must be frozen. How long before people get upset? 10% inflation without pay increases.

Anyway, that is our financial system. Why it worked well from 1980 and why without growth it will collapse. Slowly at first and then suddenly. We are at the suddenly part http://www.alt-market.com/articles/2528-one-last-look-at-the-real-economy-before-it-implodes-part-1

The people that control the banks, control the government (Lord Rothschild: “Let me issue and control a nation’s money and I care not who writes the laws.” ) and these government, knowing what is going on, are beating the war drums because they want to distract the populace and blame someone as the economy implodes due to this crazy monetary system. Nothing galvanises the public like a truly vicious and pointless war. Like WWI and WWII.

Maybe I’m being downbeat. That I ought to look on the bright side rather than despair. I do. Which is why I write pieces like this. It will be hard for Cameron, Obama, and their lackeys to start a major war by lying (and many on this very blog know they are lying). The bastards fooled us once over “Weapons of mass destruction”. Like they tried to fool us over Libya and they tried to fool us over Syria and like they’re now trying to fool us about Putin and Iran.

I wouldn’t want an easily exposed lie, to start a major war, without at least pointing out the lie. Fore warned is fore armed.
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March 6, 2015 11:26am
Shawn Herles

“But even if you are right, it reflects what Winston Churchill said: “Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time””

I agree, but I’m not suggesting we need to re-think democracy itself, but immigration policy.

Just to be clear, that is the only issue I’m talking about. I agree with you in response to Harriet’s concerns regarding things like prayer rooms.
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March 6, 2015 11:28am
Albert_Ross

Prof Ali, head sharang of islamic studies at Auckland uni has demanded a sharia banking system
be established in NZ

muslims have called for and been given their own sharia kiwisaver scheme here.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11253748

A commercial product has been made available which some people will choose to buy and others will not. Nobody’s forced to buy it, nobody’s forced to pay for it.
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March 6, 2015 11:33am
Shawn Herles

“you’ll still be blustering away chanting USA, USA, USA.”

Because being a patriot is one of the things that marks real conservatives EAD.

You on the other hand are a traitor to your own country and your own civilization, mindlessly and happily spreading Russian and Iranian anti-Western lies, and hiding your shameful treason behind dumbass conspiracy nuttery.

Do you get paid for your treason, or is it just a free service for the tyrants of the world?
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March 6, 2015 11:33am
Shawn Herles

“You can be sure that NATO and the USA know full well what happened to NH17”

Both Lucia and I have posted credible evidence that Russia was behind the attack. Not purposely necessarily, I think it was likely an accident. But Russian separatists armed by the Kremlin were to blame.

That is clearly inconvenient for the Kremlin’s narrative, and to yours Andrei.
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March 6, 2015 11:36am
EAD

Shawn Herles,

in the words of Bob Dylan

“Patriotism is the last refuge, to which a scoundrel clings,
steal a little and they throw you in jail, steal a lot and they make you King”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PpRKstHl7Y0
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March 6, 2015 11:37am
Kimbo

@ Shawn Herles

But we cannot continue to pretend that the problems created by large scale Muslim immigration are not serious, and very different to any other groups.

Agreed. Muslims en masse DO pose a particular potential problem – and a problem that due to previous muddle-headedness in France and the UK etc is now in need of some serious solutions.

However, nothing in life is guaranteed, and there will always be some from any group who fail to make the transition (immigration is aa stressful process, no matter who you are, where you are from, and what your religion teaches).

So would you therefore restrict immigration of people because they are Muslims?

Or is it not better to be vigilant and step up the resoures to ensure those who come can and – as per current immigration requirements – assimilate sufficiently and not pose a security risk or other danger to the community?

So I’ve addressed your objection, Shawn. And I know you are a considered and reasonable guy. So now I ask you to flip it over and tell me what the alternative – restricting individual immigrants because they are Muslims – looks like?
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March 6, 2015 11:37am
Clemgeopin

NATION WIDE MARCH TOMORROW AGAINST TPPA.

Hope you will join the march and send a strong message to this government to be very careful.

Here is the link with all the information:

Please check the TIME and VENUE of the march for your town or a town close to you:

http://www.itsourfuture.org.nz/events/

ALSO,
Please SIGN the petition to John Key here:

http://www.itsourfuture.org.nz/take-action/defend-our-sovereignty/
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March 6, 2015 11:44am
Shawn Herles

“in the words of Bob Dylan”

Quoting Lefty hippie folk singers now EAD? 🙂

John Pilger, Bob Dylan, the Kremlin, the Iranians mullahs, neo-Nazi’s……..

You can see why I don’t take your claim to be a conservative remotely seriously, right?

Talk about cognitive dissonance! 🙂
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March 6, 2015 11:44am
hj

Maggy Wassilieff (660 comments) says:
You provide a link to a biomedical paper that postulates an hypothesis as to a cause of gut inflammation.
Then you give an arbitrary list of foods that contain emulsifiers (and perhaps not the 2 emulsifying agents discussed in the scientific paper)
…
I drew a simplistic conclusion, however it isn’t about me:

Georgia State University microbiologist Benoit Chassaing, whose study appears in the journal Nature, said the effects seen in mice “may be observed in humans as well.”

The study involved two widely used emulsifiers, polysorbate 80 and carboxymethylcellulose. The researchers are planning human studies and are already studying other emulsifiers.

Emulsifiers are used in margarine, mayonnaise, creamy sauces, candy, ice cream, packaged processed foods and baked goods. They can make products like mayonnaise smooth and creamy instead of an unappetizing amalgam of water and oily globules.

A key feature of inflammatory bowel diseases and metabolic syndrome is a change in the gut microbiota – the roughly 100 trillion bacteria that inhabit the intestinal tract – in ways that promote inflammation. In mice given emulsifiers, the bacteria were more apt to digest and infiltrate the dense mucus layer that lines and protects the intestines.

Incidence of inflammatory bowel disease and metabolic syndrome started rising in the mid-20th century at roughly the same time that food manufacturers began widespread emulsifier use, the researchers said.

“We were thinking there was some non-genetic factor out there, some environmental factor, that would be explaining the increase in these chronic inflammatory diseases,” Georgia State immunologist Andrew Gewirtz said.

“And we thought that emulsifiers were a good candidate because they are so ubiquitous and their use has roughly paralleled the increase in these diseases. But I guess we were surprised at how strong the effects were.”

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/02/25/us-science-emulsifiers-idUSKBN0LT26S20150225
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March 6, 2015 11:46am
Manolo

Comrade Clemgeopin, the knucklehead from The sub-Standard makes a cameo appearance!
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March 6, 2015 11:47am
Shawn Herles

“So would you therefore restrict immigration of people because they are Muslims?”

I would suggest, as a possibility, simply blacklisting Islamic countries for immigrants. Yes.
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March 6, 2015 11:47am
Kimbo

@ Albert_Ross

Prof Ali, head sharang of islamic studies at Auckland uni has demanded a sharia banking system
be established in NZ

muslims have called for and been given their own sharia kiwisaver scheme here.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11253748

A commercial product has been made available which some people will choose to buy and others will not. Nobody’s forced to buy it, nobody’s forced to pay for it.

Yep.

http://www.amanahnz.com/

But then maybe it is the thin end of the wedge. Perhaps we should start by getting rid of these guys first:

http://www.sanitarium.co.nz/about-us/our-history
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March 6, 2015 11:48am
Kimbo

@ Shawn Herles

“So would you therefore restrict immigration of people because they are Muslims?”

I would suggest simply blacklisting Islamic countries for immigrants. Yes.

OK, so a variation on the old “white New Zealand” policy? Good on you for your honesty, and I’m not going to shriek “bigot!”. Instead, I’d rather examine what you suggest in a calm and logical fashion.

What will be the domestic and international fallout of that? I’m not asking you to quantify or prove it is the better option, but let’s have the cards on the table in terms of what the inevitable consequences will be. There will be a price, so please tell the nation what we will have to pay.

And also, as there are already many Muslims living in the UK and India (to name two countries from whom we receive a proportinally large amount of immigrants compared to, say, Saudi Arabia), how are you going to deal with them?
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March 6, 2015 11:52am
hj

A lot of food manufacturers will be shitting bricks over emulsifiers but it creates opportunity also.
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March 6, 2015 11:53am
EAD

Clemgeopin,

I will be joining you on your march tomorrow. This is not an issue of “right vs left”, it is an issue of right vs. wrong or the Citizens vs. the State.

Just let it be known that if you meet me, I hate the Greens, don’t support Greenpeace, don’t want to legalise drugs or support and of the usual left wing social causes. I just want mum and dad businesses to have a fair go against powerful corporations and for me to be left alone by the State. That is why I’ll march tomorrow.
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March 6, 2015 11:58am
hj

Kimbo
OK, so a variation on the old “white New Zealand policy?

What will b ethe domestic and international fallout of that? I’m not asking you to quantify or prove it is the better option, but let’s have the cards on the table in terms of what the ievitable consequences will be.
………
What is the fallout over China, Korea and Japan? China is just under 92% Han Chinese.
The “international fallout” means trade leveraged to immigration and foreign direct investment and a lot of Helen Clark Paul Spoonly, open border types.
Homogenous societies are more altruistic.
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March 6, 2015 11:58am
Shawn Herles

“OK, so a variation on the old “white New Zealand policy?”

That is not a reasonable response Kimbo. I have said nothing about keeping NZ white, and anyone familiar with my posts would know that. Unlike some others on KB, I have no problem living in a multi-ethnic society.

A policy blacklisting Islamic countries would have zero effect on Asian immigration for example. I think you’re indulging in a bit of a straw man there.

“What will be the domestic and international fallout of that?”

Not much for the former, and the latter is just a reality we would have to deal with.

“And also, as there are already many Muslims living in the UK and India (to name two countries from whom we receive a proportinally large amount of immigrants compared to, say, Saudi Arabia), how are you going to deal with that?”

I would’t bother trying to. The point is not to prevent all Muslim immigration, but simply to reduce the numbers.

And note, I am only talking about immigration, not refugees.
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March 6, 2015 12:01pm
Duxton

@ Harriat: “The pork practise is common now in Australia – sports grounds, swimming pools ect where the public attend are removing all pork and bacon products from all sale points. They harras pubs and shopkeepers ect in places dominated by Muslims over the sale of pork and alcohol ect……”

The local community here in Port Moresby experienced something similar, when a number of Muslim-owned businesses tried to stop their employees eating pork at work. (Pork and chickens are staples of the local diet.) The locals responded by slaughtering a pig (that’s right, a pig) in the local mosque (that’s right, a mosque).

For some reason the problem went away 🙂
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March 6, 2015 12:03pm
Fletch

I will just post here, for the security minded, there is a new FREE app for iOS called Signal 2.0 that sends encrypted messages (video, image, text and phone calls), and it even works between iOS and Android, with the Android program TextSecure. No pins or anything new to learn, as it imports contacts from your contacts list (adding the ones that have either of the programs mentioned above). The code is open source on Github, so people can view it.

https://whispersystems.org/blog/the-new-signal/
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March 6, 2015 12:03pm
Kimbo

@ hj

Uh, huh.

And you don’t think that there is the possibility of attracting an “international pariah” status like that of South Africa in the bad old days of apratheid? And even if you disagreed that boycotts and sanctions were the right way to deal with that problem, folks are gonna do what they are gonna do. Like, say, not selling us oil because we have anti-Muslim immigration policies.

Just tracking all of this through before everyone here goes dancing into the sunset to what they think is a happy ending.

It may indeed not be “fair” that Muslim countries discriminate against religion yet expect us to do otherwise with them, but since when is life fair? I don’t make the rules – I just report them. And in this case the golden rule applies – he who has the gold makes the rules. And in case you didn’t notice, they have the gold…and we don’t.
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March 6, 2015 12:04pm
UglyTruth

Globalresearch is not a credible source of information. Like the other conspiracy fantasists here, Ugly is trying to build a case based on discredited conspiracy sites.

Shawn is lying again. The argument is based on information from the Dutch report on MH-17
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March 6, 2015 12:10pm
Sir Leslie Bottocks

So then, where in Pakistan does alleged Pakistani cricket fan Danyal Rasool live? Or does he live there at all?

If he’s really an NZ horrid reader, then I’m betting it’s NZ!!

As for Crowe’s cricinfo writings, most of them are pretty loopy. I notice he still seems to be blaming poor John Wright for losing that semi. You’d think that after this many years he’d have accepted that NZ lost to the better team, TWICE!! The Pakis were deserving winners, and they had more than a couple of all time greats in their side!
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March 6, 2015 12:10pm

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