General Debate 21 March 2015

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hj

Radio NZ asks: Is Auckland becoming increasingly racially segregated?

A Report to government suggests that discrimination in our biggest city is leading to segregation. The report is written by Doug Mackay who lead the council through it’s first term following the amalgamation of the Auckland Supercity. He declined our request to appear on the program instead we have the old neomarxist and immigration shill Professor Professor Paul Spoonley.
“I was one of the ones who has underscored the point that Auckland is increasingly reliant on an Asian work force so my concern is that the employers of Auckland haven’t adjusted to that.

http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon/audio/20171050/is-auckland-becoming-increasingly-racially-segregated

Immigration is the Auckland economy. The Auckland economy relies on migration services (so bullshit to that Comrade).

If people sense discrimination they withdraw into their own communities (as Doug Mackay *pointed out *)

Or it is evolution at work, as in oxytocin the hormone of the clan (for National Listeners The Moral Molecule ). Spoonley claims racism came to NZ with European colonization.
Spoonley doesn’t like the word “segregation” as it implies forced . He says Migrants choose where to live and one of the main reasons is education (good schools).
Spoonley doesn’t mention a vibrant Chinese community as a reason for choosing Auckland.
They discuss house prices but there is no hint that any hostility might be justified ( it’s Kiwis behaving badly?).
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March 21, 2015 8:01am
Odakyu-sen

Race Relations Commissioner Dame Susan Devoy will today call for New Zealand to increase its quota of refugees. (Herald)

Her decision appears to be driven by emotion.
Such a statement may help her job prospects.

Question: If my assumptions are correct, should government officials base their decisions on emotion and the desire to retain their positions?
Also, if Devoy didn’t come up with this idea herself, who would likely have put her up to it?
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March 21, 2015 8:10am
hj

That Mackay report validates Dr Greg Clydesdale’s paper Growing Pains.
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March 21, 2015 8:27am
IGM

No more refugees unless they renounce Islam publicly, toss their ridiculous clothing in a bin, and vow not to enter a mosque. We should not need to go out of our way anymore accommodating these hideous users.
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March 21, 2015 8:35am
flipper

Odakyu-sen (1,164 comments) says:

March 21st, 2015 at 8:10 am
*****

You do understand that Devoy is devoid of intellect, do you not?

Look behind the woman and you will realise that Devoy is but a shill, or worse a puppet whose strings are pulled by the PC brigade. All the HR concern over words is generated by the staff….and by Rutherford the idiot Chief Commissioner who ignores the provisions of ARICLE 17 of the UNJVERSAL DECLARATION ON HUMAN RIGHTS.
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March 21, 2015 8:36am
iMP

SCIENCE (and TIME magazine) is now admitting, that Atheism is taking a major hit and Faith is better supported by science. THat Atheism is now defying logic and reason.

http://www.israelvideonetwork.com/science-has-finally-proven-that-atheism-defies-any-logic-and-reason/
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March 21, 2015 8:36am
Paulus Gnome

Odakyu-sen (1,164 comments) reply:

Len Brown could do a better job with his pants down than Race Relations Commissioner Dame Susan Devoy.

I suspect that this is a grandstand moment on her part; is she nearing the end of her anointment appointment?

She has been, and continues to be the most racist and ineffectual person to have held the Race Relations Commissioners position.
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March 21, 2015 8:40am
Inthisdress

@ iMP That’s oxymoronic surely anything empirically proven fails to require faith In the same way faith does not require empirical proof.
Just look at Winston Peter’s faith in his own ability, which he maintains despite repeated empirical evidence to the contrary.
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March 21, 2015 8:41am
Chuck Bird

The was a huge jump yesterday. I think a loss in Northland to Winston will be a vote of confidence in know all John Key.

John Key to depart from position as Leader of the National Party in 2017

https://www.ipredict.co.nz/app.php?do=contract_detail&contract=KEY.DEPART.2017
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March 21, 2015 8:44am
stephieboy

flipper, Devot devoid of intellect .? Ironical,coming from you with and your’ Bain raging and ramblings .

Just find it interesting that Devoy a person with rather conservative views prior became the “progressive “in her new role.Maybe that appointment merely widened her perspective on life .
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March 21, 2015 8:45am
Inandout

Chuck Bird: Will John Key depart politics before Winston falls off his perch?
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March 21, 2015 8:50am
wiseowl

HJ
Immigration IS the Auckland economy.
And everyone else is paying .We are all paying to change our traditions and historical makeup into something we never asked for.

The rest of the country is earning its way but Orkland just feeds off itself and sucks taxes just to expand for no reason except politicians misguided reasonings.

Come on MP’s front up and explain.
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March 21, 2015 8:50am
Odakyu-sen

flipper, stephieboy, Paulus,

If Devoy is the puppet, then who is the puppet master?

stephieboy, as you say, I think the Devoy’s appointment widened her social circle quite a lot, and exposed her to new ideas.

When is her term coming up for review? (Often there will be a flurry of activity in the months leading up to it, to raise publicity and increase the possibility of a contract renewal.) Would such a decision be in the best interests of New Zealand society? What are the benefits to NZ? What are some of the problems encountered overseas with refugees?

Is Devoy working for the nation or for herself? (I am amazed at how so-called “progressives” always seem to look out for No.1 in the end.)

Under socialism, it’s every man for himself…!
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March 21, 2015 8:57am
Inandout

David Attenborough just may have to investigate this newly found Muslim race. Perhaps they inhabit the remote Highlands with the Mormon and Jehovah’s Witness races.
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March 21, 2015 9:00am
Odakyu-sen

wiseowl
“Immigration IS the Auckland economy.”

Immigration about double from a year ago. Enormous demand on housing but with very little supply. Some people must be creaming it.

It all feels like the Japanese boom back in the late 1980s. You have to live through one to know what they’re like. The funny thing is when the bubble finally bursts, people look at each other and wonder out aloud, “How could we have been so stupid? It’s so obvious now that it was a bubble!”

Hindsight is a wonderful thing. At the time of the bubble, most people really and truly believe that this time it’s different and prices NEVER go down. They honestly believe it. Real estate is all over the TV and newspapers day after day. It’s the talk of every party.
Just wait and see how the mood changes after the bubble bursts.
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March 21, 2015 9:03am
Reid

We are all paying to change our traditions and historical makeup into something we never asked for. The rest of the country is earning its way but Orkland just feeds off itself and sucks taxes just to expand for no reason except politicians misguided reasonings. Come on MP’s front up and explain.

My theory wiseowl is that Auckland is NZ’s biggest political market. Elections are won and lost there. Therefore anyone who offends Auckland isn’t going to last long politically. And since property prices will go south in Akld if politicians start addressing the issue you raise, they’re never going to do that, thus proving they care more about their worthless political hides than they do about the country and the people those liars claim they represent. They don’t and they never have. All these bastards have ever done and all these bastards ever will do is do precisely the thing which represents their own best personal self-interest, and bugger everyone and everything else.
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March 21, 2015 9:07am
Odakyu-sen

Reid
“All these bastards have ever done and all these bastards ever will do is do precisely the thing which represents their own best personal self-interest, and bugger everyone and everything else.”

This might explain Devoy’s calls for NZ (Auckland?) to accept more refugees.
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March 21, 2015 9:09am
Reid

This might explain Devoy’s calls for NZ (Auckland?) to accept more refugees.

IMO she does that cos she’s a lightweight airhead bimbo who doesn’t have the intellectual firepower to argue with all the hysterical bleeding hearts who infest her office because they’re drawn to it like flies to a corpse.

If these idiots wanted to make a real difference to refugees then what they’d do is use the resources of their office to expose the machinations of the evil ones who cause the conflicts which create the refugees in the first place. And these are usually not the same people that the idiot media brays about, they’re an entirely different set.

But they don’t do that, because they’re fat fools who just want a comfortable 9-5 taxpayer funded life, replete with a sense of smug self-righteousness when they go to bed, happy in their hallucination that they’ve helped the poor widdle childwen, and saved them from the big bad meanies. When of course they haven’t, all they’ve actually done is let out an enormous fart which went nowhere, changed nothing, and assisted precisely zero refugees in any way whatsoever.
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March 21, 2015 9:23am
SGA

iMP at 8:36 am

SCIENCE (and TIME magazine) is now admitting, that Atheism is taking a major hit and Faith is better supported by science. THat Atheism is now defying logic and reason.

Well that’s that, isn’t it. I’ve just added “get a religion” to my weekend “to do” list. Happy now?
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March 21, 2015 9:24am
Odakyu-sen

Come on Reid, don’t hold back.
Tell us how you really feel…

😉
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March 21, 2015 9:28am
Simon

“Just wait and see how the mood changes after the bubble bursts.”

Yep this current economy is about as good as it gets. There are labour shortages hence the immigration. The banks are lending like there is no tomorrow. (and there wont be a tomorrow for one of them at very least)

John Key is probably one of the most useless PM NZ has ever had. Helen Clark had an excuse in that she was a pig ignorant academic. Key has operated very successfully in the real world. He will understand what is happening with the Auckland housing market and the resulting dislocation of New Zealanders and the massive capital distortion in the economy. All will end very badly.

But to actually address the issues it is all too hard for John Key. That makes him a colossal turd.
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March 21, 2015 9:30am
Reid

http://21stcenturywire.com/2015/03/19/france-moves-to-make-conspiracy-theories-illegal-by-government-decree/

http://irishsavant.blogspot.com.au/2015/02/whose-distopia-orwells-or-huxleys.html

The banks are lending like there is no tomorrow. (and there wont be a tomorrow for one of them at very least)

See when the 2006 GFC happened, the only Western nations that escaped the issue were us and Aus.

Since then, we’ve had ChCh and Akld, which ramps up the debt levels to similar to 2006. Leaving us vulnerable to whatever is going to happen next globally.
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March 21, 2015 9:31am
publicwatchdog

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Why does current National Government Minister of Police Michael Woodhouse not check with former National Government Minister of Police Anne Tolley, and tell the New Zealand public WHEN exactly the Police told her that (former) National MP Mike Sabin, was being investigated by Police?

‘Nothing to hide – nothing to fear’?

Or do we have to wait for Winston Peters to drop the Mike Sabin political bombshell – because this John Key led National Government are treating the New Zealand public with contempt?

In my view, the more desperately this tinpot National Government throws resources (real or ‘made up’) at the Northland electorate, the more it is likely to turn off voters, and strengthen Winston Peters’ hand, by proving that just by standing in this buy-election, National is ‘receiving’ the message?

What is ‘good’ or ‘decent’ about this John Key led National Government, or this Northland bribe-election?

In my view, ‘Brand Key’ has taken a hammering, and is now buggered, thanks to this Northland buy-election.

When the truth comes out about the supposedly ‘personal’ reasons for which (former) National MP for Northland, Mike Sabin resigned, then I predict that ex-Wall Street banker John Key, will tip from being New Zealand’s purportedly ‘most popular’ Prime Minister, to being New Zealand’s most UNPOPULAR Prime Minister, as the public realise that they’ve been sold a spin-doctored ‘pup’.

Penny Bright
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March 21, 2015 9:32am
Chuck Bird

@Inandout

“Chuck Bird: Will John Key depart politics before Winston falls off his perch?”

Quite likely.
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March 21, 2015 9:35am
stephieboy

Reid, re your incoherent babble .A hopeless task finding out those behind the alledged ” machinations ” that created refugees in the first place .
Especially if like you believe in evil hidden cabals and elites of illuminati ,Jews, Mason’s etc

Another glorious attempt to find a rationalisation for not doing anything about them and even perhaps expelling our present ones
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March 21, 2015 9:36am
renderer

Penny it bloody obvious you hate John Key with a vengeance. Can you name any politicians you have any respect for?
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March 21, 2015 9:50am
Inandout

I can imagine the stilted conversations in the work cafeteria at the Human Rights office. Topical at present would be tut tutting over that ‘ignorant racist’ Jeremy Clarkson, the staff very aware that their every word is being analysed by the team leaders, for use in ‘performance appraisals’. Metiria Turei would be praiseworthy for her comments on NZs starving masses, the team leaders smiling with approval that their underlings had empathy with the downtrodden. Susan Devoy could not escape the cloistered office atmosphere where original thought is frowned upon, and liberal thought must be strictly progressive; the poor woman is like a babe in the woods.
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March 21, 2015 9:51am
publicwatchdog

The Auckland region has been under direct corporate control since 1 November 2010,when this Auckland ‘Supercity’ amalgamation was forced upon citizens and ratepayers without our democratic consent.

The mechanism for this corporate takeover has been the Council (CORPORATE) Controlled Organisation (CCO) model, which has never been subjected to a proper, independent ‘cost-benefit’ analysis, for ‘cost-effectiveness’ for the majority of citizens and ratepayers, either before or after this forced Auckland amalgamation.

As the first 2016 confirmed Auckland Mayoral candidate, I am campaigning to abolish ALL Auckland Council CCOs.

In my view, that is the yardstick upon which to measure ALL 2016 Auckland Mayoral candidates.

Unless CCOs are abolished, and Council services and regulatory functions are brought back ‘in-house’ under direct Council control,
under the NOT for profit, ‘public service model’ – NOTHING will fundamentally change.

Penny Bright

http://www.pennybright4mayor.org.nz
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March 21, 2015 9:54am
Maggy Wassilieff

@SGA 9:24am

Don’t waste your weekend searching around for a suitable religion that satisfies logic and reason, create your own.

I’m more than happy to provide you with some help with spin and double-speak; and, at a pinch, I could offer up a few hours a week as a high priestess/ divine/ demi-goddess,etc…. (whatever suits).
(I’m not too keen on the ascetic side of religion…. so perhaps you could cover that aspect).
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March 21, 2015 9:57am
Viking2

Key will go leaving the Nats. with English and Smith as “leaders” being contested by Collins. That’s what they have been after and Key has obliged by getting rid of the two who should have been in that position.
Key will take the likes of Findlayson and Joyce with him, for why should they stay.It will all get too hard.

No standout leaders left in the pile despite the spin.

Pointed all this out ages ago. Looked into my tea leaves.

Andrew will rise with the Green Parrot on his perch. 😆
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March 21, 2015 9:59am
publicwatchdog

Renderer – I don’t ‘hate’ John Key, or anybody actually.

But I detest bullsh*t and political ‘spin’.

What I respect is political courage, those who have the guts to put their necks out, and make a stand on principle.

Kind regards

Penny Bright
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March 21, 2015 9:59am
SGA

Maggy Wassilieff at 9:57 am

at a pinch, I could offer up a few hours a week as a high priestess/ divine/ demi-goddess,etc…. (whatever suits).

My goodness, I’m off to have a cold shower 🙂
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March 21, 2015 10:00am
Viking2

renderer (174 comments) says:
March 21st, 2015 at 9:50 am

Penny it bloody obvious you hate John Key with a vengeance. Can you name any politicians you have any respect for?
============================
Clearly you fail to observe. Penny is not about personalities but their behavoir. Different things.
.
Just as you should be.

Not enough transparency in politics nor in governance.
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March 21, 2015 10:03am
Reid

A hopeless task finding out those behind the alledged ” machinations ” that created refugees in the first place

stephie, most of us know that when it comes to knowledge of any kind, you’re a blind man looking for a black cat in a dark room, that isn’t there.

But just cos you are in fact, one of those, don’t assume everyone else is so afflicted. Don’t mentally drag all of us down to your wretched level of profound ignorance and incompetence, simply in order that you don’t feel quite such a loser.
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March 21, 2015 10:05am
renderer

Will rephrase that Penny can you name a few recent politicians who have displayed courage and transperency
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March 21, 2015 10:12am
Tookinator

Am in the Herald again today:

“Organ donor stats shock campaigner”

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11420789
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March 21, 2015 10:14am
Swifty

I worry about Penny Bright, particularly when I read her 9.32am ‘predictions’ about what is about to befall John Key. I think she needs help.

I mean she had this to say a few days before the 2014 election, when Kim Dotcom was about to unload:

“In my considered opinion, NZ Prime Minister John Key is in DEEP sh*t over the upcoming EVIDENCE that is about to be revealed at ‘The Moment of Truth’ event, tonight at the Auckland Town Hall.”

Well we all know what happened subsequently – National and Key romped home with an election night majority! Dotcom was left holding an empty sack and everyone around him lost any remaining shreds of credibility.

We also now know how much value to put in to Penny Bright’s opinions or predictions and the ‘consideration’ she puts in to them. A pity, because every now and again she makes a good point – but which inevitably gets lost in all this other mindless drivel she spouts.
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March 21, 2015 10:14am
minus

Penny – Or do we have to wait for Winston Peters to drop the Mike Sabin political bombshell

Has Winston told you, Penny, how he is going to do that when the Speaker of Parliament has pointed out to him that the case is under suppression of all details?
And how does your lilly-white transparent non-corrupted mind tell you, in your opinion, how Northland voters will react to Winston’s possible unlawful revelation, for pure political gain, will work for him.
Particularly as there is yet on verdict in the case the Speaker alludes to.
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March 21, 2015 10:17am
stephieboy

Reid, demonstrate to us those resonsible for say WW 2,apart from your more usual secret cabal of elites, financiers ,Jews etc We took in a number of refugees from that conflict .

You say the wrong thing to do ?

Why ?
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March 21, 2015 10:23am
dime

If some former squash player thinks we need more refugees then that’s good enough for me
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March 21, 2015 10:23am
hj

That Mackay report validates Dr Greg Clydesdale’s paper Growing Pains.

……..
Well it does. Look where the high birthrate and dependancy is?
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March 21, 2015 10:24am
Reid

We took in a number of refugees from that conflict. You say the wrong thing to do ?

No I haven’t once mentioned the refugee policy settings in anything I’ve said above stupid moron boy. You’ve hallucinated some connection out of thin air and pretended in your own idiot tiny mind that I’ve said something that I haven’t.

The evidence is right there staring you in the face, moronfoolboy, so go and have a look at what I’ve said today, and stop pretending I’ve said something I haven’t. You do this all the time you idiot, and you need to stop doing it, because it just makes you look foolish.
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March 21, 2015 10:28am
Kimbo

@ iMP

SCIENCE (and TIME magazine) is now admitting, that Atheism is taking a major hit and Faith is better supported by science. THat Atheism is now defying logic and reason.

http://www.israelvideonetwork.com/science-has-finally-proven-that-atheism-defies-any-logic-and-reason/

Ho hum. The medieval Scholastic Thomas Aquinas repackaged.

And as usually happens when one tries to over-sell his arguments, you end up with heresy. For example, “The Universe is the greatest miracle.”

Not according to Scripture. That distinction belongs to the resurrection of Jesus Christ (or if you are Jewish, the Exodus). Which, while it may indeed be true, is not something that Science can prove.

Just as it cannot prove the existence of God. It does not have the appropriate tools. It is like trying to discern wind speed with a thermometer.

Instead, Theology and Science speak to different realms, each sovereign over their respective disciplines. Which allows Theology to be Theology, and Science to be Science. Their respective findings may inform one another – just as all inter-displinary study does – but no more.

Which is why the Reformers (i.e., scholars with primarily religious, not scientific motivations) did the world an immense service when they uncoupled the two by ditching Aquinas.
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March 21, 2015 10:29am
dog_eat_dog

How does The Nation get any funding at all from NZ on Air? It has to be the most biased political show this country has ever put together.
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March 21, 2015 10:30am
stephieboy

Reid, I make no apologies to your tirade against Susan Devoy ‘s call to accept more refugees .An eminently humane sane response given the humanitarian crises in Syria and the ME .

We currently accept a quota 800 year that should be tripled for the next two successive years as a response to the crises and no I don’t believe the civil war was a result of the machinations of the US or Israel etc .

BTW our gesture could greatly assist the beleaguered Christiian communities there !
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March 21, 2015 10:44am
Reid

Reid, I make no apologies to your tirade against Susan Devoy ‘s call to accept more refugees .An eminently humane sane response given the humanitarian crises in Syria and the ME .

I don’t give a fuck if you apologise or not stupidmoronfoolboy. All I ask is you stop lying and pretending that I myself have saidanything whatsoever about the refugee policy we operate in this country. So are you going to stop lying stupidmoronfoolboy, or not?

[DPF: That’s Strike 1. Less abuse in future]
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March 21, 2015 10:46am
OneTrack

flipper – “Look behind the woman and you will realise that Devoy is but a shill, or worse a puppet whose strings are pulled by the PC brigade.”

I am starting to realise.
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March 21, 2015 10:46am
Inandout

dog_eat_dog: You wonder about NZ on Air funding decisions; well this is a good place to start:-

http://www.nzonair.govt.nz/about-nz-on-air/the-board/
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March 21, 2015 10:49am
Chuck Bird

@minus

Penny – Or do we have to wait for Winston Peters to drop the Mike Sabin political bombshell

Has Winston told you, Penny, how he is going to do that when the Speaker of Parliament has pointed out to him that the case is under suppression of all details?
And how does your lilly-white transparent non-corrupted mind tell you, in your opinion, how Northland voters will react to Winston’s possible unlawful revelation, for pure political gain, will work for him.
Particularly as there is yet on verdict in the case the Speaker alludes to.

It sounds like you believe the rumours about what Sabin is charged with.

If the rumours are true then it makes the issue of when John Key knew about them more relevant.
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March 21, 2015 10:50am
OneTrack

pwd – “Renderer – I don’t ‘hate’ John Key, or anybody actually.

But I detest bullsh*t and political ‘spin’.”

I detest bullsh*t too.
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March 21, 2015 10:51am
minus

Chuck Bird
I have not heard rumours about Sabin.
However I am aware, as most are, that the Speaker of Parliament, has referred to a case now fully suppressed in all details, in stopping some Questions being asked in the House.
Of course, in due course, if Sabin is revealed to be guilty of such a crime as requires this level of suppression, it will be a crucial question as to when John Key was fully aware of what Sabin is accused of.

It has not yet been revealed, after the Election as he claims was when he first knew, if Key asked Sabin what was the nature of the police investigations, whether Sabin just said “personal family matters” as has been the general description, or whether Key accepted that or demanded details of what Sabin exactly understood to be the problem – and it is hard to believe any party leader would not have required that further information.

Also, following reports the Speaker alluded to it would seem, if papers have their timing right, that a court case ocurred and was suppressed before Sabin resigned and would make it an offence for him then to explain further to anyone.

It will be interesting now as to whether Winston can reveal anything in Parliament, as the Speaker has already ruled on Questions relating to the matter? Peters may say something under Parliamentary Privilege but could then be subject to whatever ruling the Speaker has already made on the matter. Someone with better knowledge may illuminate us on that.
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March 21, 2015 11:22am
publicwatchdog

Why won’t National’s Minister of Police tell the public WHEN the Police advised that Mike Sabin was under Police investigation?

Did the Police advise that Mike Sabin was under investigation BEFORE he was re-selected as the National Party candidate for Northland?

YES or NO?

‘Nothing to hide – nothing to fear’?

Come on!

Tell New Zealanders the TRUTH!

Penny Bright
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March 21, 2015 11:28am
Manolo

Clinton faces a difficult decision: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/03/20/benghazi-panel-head-gowdy-asks-clinton-to-relinquish-personal-server/?intcmp=latestnews

The chairman of the congressional committee probing the Benghazi terror attacks has formally asked that Hillary Clinton turn over her personal server — warning that the House could take steps to pressure her if she refuses.
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March 21, 2015 11:30am
Odakyu-sen

Devoy has to ask herself: “What have refugees done for NZ lately?”

If there have been success stories, then what kind of refugees have been successful in contributing to NZ? How have they contributed?

Similarly, have there been failures (in terms of burdening the medical/welfare systems/involvement in crime)? In such cases, what kinds of refugees have been a drain on NZ society?

It’s kind of dumb to allow people into the country “just because they’re refugees” without any thought the burden/benefit they will bring to NZ. Sure, it gives some people a dose of the “warm fuzzies,” but you can’t steer national policy by being guided by the readings of your “warm-fuzzy meter.”
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March 21, 2015 11:32am
Reid

Key has totally screwed himself on Sabin for one simple reason. In January, when he definitely did know, since he actually officially found out in November (actually it was almost certainly before the election, just can’t be proven). But in January when he’d known officially for at least two months he told a press conference that Sabin was resigning and that he’d been on a fast track to becoming a Minister.

And Key said this after he has been definitely and officially told that Sabin is facing charges.

And no-one pressured Key to say this fast track bit. It was an entirely unprovoked comment he voluntarily made for no reason whatsoever.

And when people find out what Sabin is charged with and they see replays of this comment on the news that night, they’re going to be thinking to themselves: when Key said this, he knew, he fucking knew what this bastard did, and he said this? That’s what they’re going to be thinking, that night, when it all comes out.

And Key’s not going to survive that.

This is just one of the reasons why I’ve been saying for some time the Nats need to start showing daylight between them and Key and the Northland election was a very good time to start doing that. But as usual the Nats are going to fuck it up massively and the socialists are going to roar back into power assisted by their media bedmates all whooping and hollering in their appallingly mental way.
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March 21, 2015 11:35am
publicwatchdog

Don’t you think that the voting public in Northland deserve to know the TRUTH about WHY their former National Party MP Mike Sabin resigned?

YES or NO?

If NO – why not?

Penny Bright
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March 21, 2015 11:36am
renderer

Penny are the left subject to your

‘Nothing to hide – nothing to fear’?

Come on!

Tell New Zealanders the TRUTH!

Rules
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March 21, 2015 11:38am
wat dabney

“SCIENCE (and TIME magazine) is now admitting, that Atheism is taking a major hit and Faith is better supported by science. ”

Okay, I watched that painful link so you don’t have to.

And no, TIME magazine says nothing of the sort. Quite the reverse in fact. Not that the content of a lifestyle magazine is hugely authoritative. But the fact that a theist dishonestly tries to claim its support is revealing.

Watching theists desperately try to explain the complexities of the universe by positing an even-more complex pantheon of magical pixies is as embarrassing as it is painful to watch. But that’s what we’re talking about here. Their “explanation” for the universe is ‘magic’.

Sad and pathetic.

Not only that, but in the West they have been raised to imagine a singularly spiteful, infantile, evil, child-butchering pixie and rush to suck its cock. These people are twisted beyond belief.

The Bible teaches that the test of a true believer is someone willing to murder their own children.

And of course, anyone willing to murder their own children is quite willing to murder other people’s.

Yet we allow this sickos to build their temples in our midst.
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March 21, 2015 11:47am
hj

National Breaking News

Multiculturalism Vic’s best asset: govt

…….
ofcourse it’s self-evident?
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March 21, 2015 11:50am
Jacob

Penny
A court order prevents the public knowing. That is FACT.
Should people know details about Sabin?
NO – unlike not knowing about Len Brown before voting for him, people are NOT being asked to vote for Sabin.

You obviously believe they should know – exactly how do you think that would increase their ability to vote in a reasonable manner?
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March 21, 2015 11:55am
wat dabney

“Theology and Science speak to different realms ”

No, they don’t.

It is the ultimate cop-out to say that the imagined actions and dictats of magical pixies can’t be scrutinised by scientific enquiry.

Your problem, of course, is that objective scientific enquiry exposes belief in magical pixies for the pathetic crutch it is.
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March 21, 2015 11:57am
backster

I heard on todays radio news that a Somali was granted refugee status in NZ because he was HIV Positive and he wouldn’t get treatment if he was sent back to Somalia, god knows how much the NZ taxpayer will need to shell out to support him and those (like Uncle George} he will infect. It will also set a precedent. Wouldn’t happen in Auss.
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March 21, 2015 12:03pm
IGM

backster: Clark, in its last term, brought in hundreds of Aids-infected Africans, as a way of appeasing UN, in its bid for a job. If I remember correctly, Cunliffe was also complicit in this rort . . . it was, and still is, costing millions.
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March 21, 2015 12:06pm
Fletch

Charles Krauthammer explains why there will not be a Palestinian State in the near future – and it has nothing to do with Netanyahu.

Of all the idiocies uttered in reaction to Benjamin Netanyahu’s stunning election victory, none is more ubiquitous than the idea that peace prospects are now dead because Netanyahu has declared that there will be no Palestinian state while he is Israel’s prime minister.

I have news for the lowing herds: There would be no peace and no Palestinian state if Isaac Herzog were prime minister either. Or Ehud Barak or Ehud Olmert for that matter. The latter two were (non-Likud) prime ministers who offered the Palestinians their own state — with its capital in Jerusalem and every Israeli settlement in the new Palestine uprooted — only to be rudely rejected.

This is not ancient history. This is 2000, 2001 and 2008 — three astonishingly concessionary peace offers within the last 15 years. Every one rejected.

The fundamental reality remains: This generation of Palestinian leadership — from Yasser Arafat to Mahmoud Abbas — has never and will never sign its name to a final peace settlement dividing the land with a Jewish state. And without that, no Israeli government of any kind will agree to a Palestinian state.

Today, however, there is a second reason a peace agreement is impossible: the supreme instability of the entire Middle East.

MORE – https://stream.org/no-peace-time/
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March 21, 2015 12:07pm
IGM

Devoy has a cheek using Polish refugees coming here after WWII as an example to assist her claims. Poles, for starters were not Muslms, were not scared of work, were honest, clean, grateful, independent, and fine people . . . something the so-called refugees of late are not.
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March 21, 2015 12:13pm
Odakyu-sen

IGM,

There are refugees and there are refugees.
Some are smart, successful types that are expelled from their countries by nutty, vindictive regimes (we’ll take these refugees because they are hard-working and productive). (Refer to WWII)
Others have been swept off their feet by civil conflict, famine, etc. (this is the “modern” refugee. They tend to come from basket-case countries, and need to be assessed in a rational light.)
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March 21, 2015 12:31pm
nasska

….”Poles, for starters were not Muslms, were not scared of work, were honest, clean, grateful, independent, and fine people “…..

Agreed….they & the Dutch who emigrated after WW2 usually arrived with nothing & most couldn’t even speak more than a couple of words of English yet they worked hard & brought up great kids. Total contrast to the soap dodging dregs of England we welcomed who went on to promote militant unionism which nearly broke the country & who moaned ceaselessly about everything & everyone.

Yet we have learned nothing from our history. Since we are fortunate enough to live in “Godzone” why o’ why do we have this cringing need to fill the place with no hopers such as ME refugees who have no intention of assimilating & seek to turn us into a carbon copy of the shitholes they have escaped from?
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March 21, 2015 12:39pm
IGM

nasska: You are right on the money, never truer words spoken! All the Poms brought were unions, rabbits, gorse, weasels, ferrets, stoats, rats, and trouble.
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March 21, 2015 12:43pm
Longknives

The over-excited Herald was claiming this morning that the Black Caps have the best batting line-up in the World…possibly ever!

Reel it in for Christ’s sake! The team has been playing bloody well but hype like this puts the Kiss of Death on them…
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March 21, 2015 12:44pm
All_on_Red

nasska, IGM, yep, a great example is Psycho Milt. He’s a pommie immigrant. What a leftie whinger
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March 21, 2015 12:47pm
stephieboy

IGM , what evidence and facts do you have that Muslim immigrants are lazy unlike their
Polish counterparts ?
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March 21, 2015 12:52pm
MT_Tinman

Longknives (5,214 comments) says:
March 21st, 2015 at 12:44 pm

The over-excited Herald was claiming this morning that the Black Caps have the best batting line-up in the World…possibly ever!

Reel it in for Christ’s sake! The team has been playing bloody well but hype like this puts the Kiss of Death on them…

You read the Herald you deserve what you get.

As an aside coloured clothing cricket between good sides is a lottery, I wonder who will win this afternoon.
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March 21, 2015 12:52pm
Inandout

IGM: Polish refugees came with little or no hang ups, and yes all the ones I knew were bloody hard workers. Then I also knew Hungarian refugees who had escaped a ruthless communist regime, once again no discernible hangups. The common factor amongst these earlier refugees is that they had no religious baggage as such, did not wish to change the NZ way of life, and in fact actually enhanced our lifestyle. Modern refugees, by comparison, are largely the scum of the earth, with little in the way of the social norms we take for granted. We never experienced European refugees forming gangs of rapists soon after arriving here, as has been experienced in Hamilton with some African types. An immigrant (essential occupations excepted) and refugee moratorium should be put in place until we learn how they have impacted on our culture.
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March 21, 2015 12:58pm
rightoverlabour

I would argue that Science is a religion. You can’t really prove anything, possibly falsify it at best. We believe our teachers when they talk about electrons and protons and the Higgs Boson , but you show me one one person that has seen any of them. Sure if we want to feel the effects of electrons go and jump on a train and touch the overhead wires, but much of what is taught as fact is nothing more than our best understanding of the physical word and the forces between these things. In the final analysis, not even objective observation is ever possible. The Copenhagen Axioms shed some light on this…. simply put and I quote…

“The fundamental axiom of the Copenhagen interpretation is the “postulate of the quantum”, that subatomic events are only perceptible as indeterministic physically discontinuous transitions between discrete stationary states. Various consequences are inferred from this postulate of unpredictable physical discontinuity. Another axiom is that incompatible conjugate properties cannot be defined for the same time and place; this is expressed in detail as Heisenberg’s uncertainty principle”

Simple Really.
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March 21, 2015 1:09pm
IGM

I used Poles as an example because Devoy brought it up. Yes Hungarians, Dutch, Yugoslavs, etc., but not Poms, were lovely people, hard workers, good tradesmen, and honest, never looking for a reason to strike, or get out of work. Many Poles were devout Catholics, but never did they expect everyone around them to also become followers, or adherents.
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March 21, 2015 1:24pm
hj

National Breaking News

Multiculturalism Vic’s best asset: govt
…….,
So why does the state Govt have to tell people?
Because they want to present the impression of a large bulk of opinion. The reality is it isn’t self evident. Claiming multiculturalism as the states biggest asset suggests a state free of normal competing people but rather in some cleansed form?
The illusion requires an official propaganda machine.
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March 21, 2015 1:26pm
Viking2

OneTrack (3,869 comments) says:
March 21st, 2015 at 10:51 am

pwd – “Renderer – I don’t ‘hate’ John Key, or anybody actually.

But I detest bullsh*t and political ‘spin’.”

I detest bullsh*t too.
====================
Does that include the political spin stuff as well or doesn’t that count?

Why don’t you want transparency in the people who stand for Office and may ultimately decide your fate?

Just answer the question without the bulls**t and political spin.
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March 21, 2015 1:32pm
Inandout

Jacob: Penny conveniently forgets about the Ginger Hughes cover up, and the mysterious LAX affair on the very highest level.
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March 21, 2015 1:33pm
stigie

I would imagine that downtick on IGMs excellent comment at 12.43 must have been a pom !!
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March 21, 2015 1:35pm
Viking2

Have a friend who goes to England consulting for a couple of companies. In the last few years they have been full of Poles working their bums off. Now they are going back home because there are a lot more opportunities and they can earn a lot more money back home so poms are having to employ poms again. Seemingly their workplace and safety has now become “anal” (like our is) because the poms are dim witted and unable to work safely even with simple stuff.

Rather them than Muslims who send their women out to work while they spend the day rubbing noses on the floor.
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March 21, 2015 1:37pm
Kimbo

@ wat dabney

“Theology and Science speak to different realms ”

No, they don’t.

It is the ultimate cop-out to say that the imagined actions and dictats of magical pixies can’t be scrutinised by scientific enquiry.

Your problem, of course, is that objective scientific enquiry exposes belief in magical pixies for the pathetic crutch it is.

Thus proving my assertion at other times on Kiwiblog that about the only people who ever insist that the narrative of, say Genesis 1 and 2 should be considered (and then rejected or accepted) as modern Science are

1. Fundamentalists who have never taken the time to consider the Reformers’ advice that the meaning and application of a Biblical text must is discerned by first understanding why it was written, what it meant to the original recipienets, and their cultural and historical situation and general millieu

2. Hard core anti-religion atheists such as Christopher Hitchens, Richard Dawkins and wat dabney.

Just think about that, wat. You share the same mindset and assumptions as the guys who put that video together in the first place. Irony. Exhibit A.

Science may indeed clarify that the earth was not created by the dividing of waters. But then that is actually not the primary message of Genesis 1. And as it was never written as a Science text book, but instead as a piece of art critiquing other pagan beliefs of the time, to subject it to Science pretty much misses the point. Like taking a literal microscope to Shakespeare
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March 21, 2015 1:38pm
Colville

Penny,

You said..

What I respect is political courage, those who have the guts to put their necks out, and make a stand on principle.

You did mean Men like John Banks didnt you?
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March 21, 2015 1:40pm
Kimbo

@ rightoverlabour

I would argue that Science is a religion.

I don’t agree, although they do have points of similarity as they are ultimately human constructs that attempt to make sense of the Universe. Not that the logical positivists like wat dabney (ever examined your own assumptions, wat?) would necessarily agree.

However this guy may agree with you:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Feyerabend

“There is no way of delimiting ‘science’ by something stronger and more coherent than a list”

https://books.google.co.nz/books?id=8y-FVtrKeSYC&pg=PA246&lpg=PA246&dq=there+is+no+way+of+delimiting+%E2%80%98science%E2%80%99+by+something+stronger+and+more+coherent+than+a+list&source=bl&ots=vDTGd4Qt5J&sig=svjY_G7rgi2VpnJpE_6E4TBPFVw&hl=en&sa=X&ei=EsEMVYjfNM7n8AW55YKAAw&ved=0CB0Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=there%20is%20no%20way%20of%20delimiting%20%E2%80%98science%E2%80%99%20by%20something%20stronger%20and%20more%20coherent%20than%20a%20list&f=false
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March 21, 2015 1:55pm
publicwatchdog

Are concerned Auckland citizens going to have to physically OCCUPY the port, in order to stop this proposed railroaded reclamation, supported by, in my opinion, LYING Mayor Len Brown?

Penny Bright

http://www.pennybright4mayor.org.nz
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March 21, 2015 2:02pm
OneTrack

rightoverlanour – “I would argue that Science is a religion. You can’t really prove anything, possibly falsify it at best. We believe our teachers when they talk about electrons and protons and the Higgs Boson , but you show me one one person that has seen any of them.”

The old if you can’t see it, it doesn’t exist theorem. I can’t see the wind, but, somehow, as if by magic, yachts move.

Those same guys who follow the religion of electrons and protons, have used that knowledge to create things like 4G smartphones. But, no doubt, you don’t use those – you can’t see how they work? Right!
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March 21, 2015 2:25pm
rightoverlabour

Kimbo – Find it fascinating that I have already received 4 down ticks ( you 1 so far)but only one comment (yours) . Now, either what I have said is majorly offensive? or there are those that just are too thick to enter into reasoned debate. Or maybe the Atheist Fascists on this blog feel threatened? (apologies to all reasonable Atheists, this is not directed at you)… The beauty of the Atheist -Theist debate is that it is totally futile, neither can prove the other wrong, neither can prove they are right. A bit like Schrödinger’s Cat….
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March 21, 2015 2:28pm
SGA

rightoverlabour at 2:28 pm

Now, either what I have said is majorly offensive? or there are those that just are too thick to enter into reasoned debate. Or maybe the Atheist Fascists on this blog feel threatened?

Or maybe they disagreed but really just can’t be bothered entering into a protracted debate? (especially as the cricket is underway 🙂 )
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March 21, 2015 2:38pm
publicwatchdog

Why do NZ ports have to ‘compete’ with each other?

Who benefits from this ‘competition’ apart from shipping companies?

Who owns these shipping companies?

Follow the dollar …

Wouldn’t it be a potentially more ‘cost-effective’ use of public money to operate and manage NZ ports under the ‘co-operative’ (commonsense) model?

Penny Bright
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March 21, 2015 2:48pm
Kimbo

@ rightoverlabour

Kimbo – Find it fascinating that I have already received 4 down ticks ( you 1 so far)but only one comment (yours) . Now, either what I have said is majorly offensive? or there are those that just are too thick to enter into reasoned debate. Or maybe the Atheist Fascists on this blog feel threatened? (apologies to all reasonable Atheists, this is not directed at you)… The beauty of the Atheist -Theist debate is that it is totally futile, neither can prove the other wrong, neither can prove they are right. A bit like Schrödinger’s Cat….

Wasn’t me. As I said, I disagreed with you (and not just because of the diluting of Science. As per my earlier post about Aquinas, true Religion too suffers if it is equated with Science). Nonetheless I found your thoughts stimulating. I just up-ticked you. I also thought the same of the first half of wat dabney’s at 11:47. And I didn’t down tick him, either.

Mind you, I find some of the arguments by theists around here defensive and poorly argued at times. Which maybe just confirms the point wisdom and foolishness is found among the proponents of both theism and atheism.

One Track’s at 2:25, “Those same guys who follow the religion of electrons and protons, have used that knowledge to create things like 4G smartphones. But, no doubt, you don’t use those – you can’t see how they work? Right!” is is primarily a pragmatic appeal, “look at the technology!”. But then, as David Hume pointed out from the stand-point of inexorable logic, the apparent reliabity of empirical cause and effect may indeed be just that – apparent, and not truly reliable. Including 4G smartphones.

That may not be common sense, but then wasn’t Science originally conceived as a means of moving beyond “common sense” to discover the Universe as it truly is?
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March 21, 2015 3:06pm
UrbanNeocolonialist

stephieboy: muslim laziness:
http://pamelageller.com/2013/07/uk-53-of-muslim-men-dont-work-infidels-support-them.html/

“In the UK only 47% of Muslim men and 24% of Muslim women are employed”

Aside from not integrating, they are a massive drain on taxpayer dollars.
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March 21, 2015 3:10pm
SGA

@kimbo

wasn’t Science originally conceived as a means of moving beyond “common sense” to discover the Universe as it truly is

I’ve tended to think of science more as something that developed or evolved rather than something that was conceived?
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March 21, 2015 3:11pm
IGM

The figures for Muslim unemployment here would be a lot greater, they just do not want to work; if they do, they create trouble.
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March 21, 2015 3:21pm
Kimbo

@ SGA

wasn’t Science originally conceived as a means of moving beyond “common sense” to discover the Universe as it truly is

I’ve tended to think of science more as something that developed or evolved rather than something that was conceived?

Not if I understand the Greeks, or Francis Bacon correctly (not that I presume to have much of a handle on philosophy).

And even though he took a primarily empirical approach rather than fussing first over the epistemilogical issues, isn’t Galileo dropping his spheres from the Tower of Pisa an attempt to discover what truly is? Common sense tells me if they are of differing mass, they must fall at differing speeds. So why bother…unless you truly want to check out the seemingly obvious..and maybe discover it ain’t necessarily so. So I’d argue that even with Galileo the conception is there, even if only tacit and informal.
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March 21, 2015 3:25pm
OneTrack

Pwd – “Wouldn’t it be a potentially more ‘cost-effective’ use of public money to operate and manage NZ ports under the ‘co-operative’ (commonsense) model?”

The answer is no.

You are suggesting by having a Ministry in Wellington deciding what cooperation means in practice, that, somehow, this would be more cost-effective ie in other words no competition and no reason to try and do things better aka the communist model.
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March 21, 2015 3:27pm
Komata

An added factor in respect of the male Muslim work ethic, which has not AFAIK been mentioned so far, is the fact that these individuals see themselves as being ‘above’ such things; every non-Muslim being an ‘infidel’ and therefore only worthy of contempt. The somali’s take it a stage further and consider that THEY are the highest life-form ON THE PLANET, and are absolutely and irrevocably above EVERYONE ELSE. The term ‘self conceited’ doesn’t even begin to describe their viewpoint; and explains their incredible arrogance. Those who have had the misfortune to work with or amongst them will understand what I mean. Add that to the ‘ingrained’ attitude towards women that the Koran promotes and you do get an ‘interesting’ individual who has absolutely no compunction about mistreating women (who are, after all, lower in Muslim social status than donkeys’.) As a result, the somali male is completely unapologetic about his attitudes and wonders why there is a problem… They do not, of course have any problems in taking as much of the decadent infidel’s ‘assets’ as they can (including their women – by force if necessary), since if they are fool enough to provide these assets, then why not…

Yet still the NZ Government lets them in. Thank goodness for the Tasman Sea – this country’s ‘unintentional’ moat.
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March 21, 2015 3:38pm
ngatimozart

I see McCullum won toss and elected to bat. He went out for 12 (faced 8 balls scored 1 six, 1 four). Williamson for 33. Both wickets taken by catches. Guptill is doing well on 61 and Taylor on 11. In 23rd over 124/2. Hmm, not sure if that winning the toss is a good or bad omen. From memory first time McCullum his won it this tournament. We can but live in hope and have faith.
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March 21, 2015 3:39pm
SGA

@kimbo
Sure, but I see those characters as part of the development to what we now call science, rather than a defining moment. YMMV.
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March 21, 2015 3:40pm
Inandout

These somalis can’t say they weren’t warned about our laws.

http://www.police.govt.nz/advice/personal-community/new-arrivals/somali/prevention

Needs google translation obviously.
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March 21, 2015 4:16pm
Reid

The absolute total bullshit that was the Boston Bombing exposed before your very eyes.

And yet one predicts the sheeple, unable to comprehend the most elementary things as they prove each and every day these days, will continue to bleat and baa in their green, green meadow of manufactured content, while the evil ones continue plotting their imminent demise.

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2015/03/14/the-new-york-times-all-the-lies-they-can-fit-in-print/

Won’t you.

Maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=won1okeV6sM
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March 21, 2015 4:16pm
rightoverlabour

Kimbo – most theists arguments are very poorly developed. They will resort to quoting scripture which is probably not a good place to start. Unfortunately many atheists resort to attacks that try and reduce religion to the stuff of fairy tales, which is equally unhelpful. The people that argue the best are those who have studied philosophy whether the philosophy of Science or Religion. As I have studied both I maintain that Science and Religion are not opposite antagonists but complimentary in understanding truth, whatever that may be or defined as. And as we use words and language to define truth, we already distort the understanding because of the limits of language. (possibly why physicists use maths instead of words to construct reality).
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March 21, 2015 4:24pm

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