General Debate 11 March 2015

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thedavincimode

Nostradamus

Still a good outcome for the mad woman though. Its value has probably increased by at least 50% since she started bludging off her fellow rate payers. She just needs to hold them off in order to get through to the spring property market.
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March 11, 2015 3:25pm
thedavincimode

stigie

I’m still disappointed that you haven’t organised a sit-in at her place. A protest for the 99% – the 99% who pay their rates.
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March 11, 2015 3:27pm
Nostradamus

Thedavincimode:

Yes, true, but Penny would need to buy and sell in the same market.

While Penny has been battling city hall, the price of her next house has been increasing, too.
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March 11, 2015 3:30pm
calendar girl

I shouldn’t have bothered to reply to you, stephieboy. As predicted, you just try and distort everything with ‘your clever words’.

“… interest free loans which the present government has not removed”.

That was my very point, one of my frustrations that you asked about. Do you suffer from some form of comprehension deficiency?

“Welfare dependency that goes back well beyond 1999.”

Of course it does; my point was that it has got worse, and has stayed worse. ‘Working for Families’ is an example, but there are plenty more.

“The anti smacking law ? So you say its Ok to hit children but not adults?”

I didn’t say that, so stop being tricky with that misrepresentation. I’m in favour of responsible parenting, including correctional disciple where necessary. Only idiots can’t understand the difference between a responsible ‘smack’ and ‘bashing’ kids.

“The police framing laws ? Examples ?”

Again a misrepresentation on your part. I said the Police have “too much lobbying influence in the framing of laws”, which is quite a different form of action, as you well know. I want the Police right out of politicking about law changes – their job is one of enforcement of laws enacted by the legislature, or of relevant and lawful Ministerial decisions thereunder. Examples of recent Police excesses include no tolerance speed limits, and lobbying on changes to liquor licensing and pokie requirements.

“Wellington bureaucracy ? The present government has adequately dealt to it without the help of Colon Craig!”

So “adequately” (in your view) that Wellington bureaucracy is still at least 30% greater than it need be, and the payroll at least 50% greater than it need be. National’s much-trumpeted slimming down of the public service has proved to be rather less impressive than we were led to expect. Management salaries in Government Departments and agencies are market-leading, indecent and socially-divisive. Len Brown’s bureaucracy in Auckland is all-powerful and rapacious, as will be its mirror image in a Wellington super-city.

My apologies to other readers for the Penny-like length of this comment. stephieboy’s ‘debating points’ needed to be rebutted directly, because of their predictable misrepresentation of my views. As I said at the outset, “I shouldn’t have bothered ….”
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March 11, 2015 3:36pm
Ed Snack

I really do wish I knew what a “Repugnantican” is or was. I get it Stephieboy, you want us all to shut up about the “old news” about Hilary’s official communications “oversights”. Hey, maybe that article isn’t all wrong, playing it cool isn’t a bad idea, but I do like to point out the gaping holes in her story. Holes that all too many seemed prepared to overlook, because “lady parts” I guess.
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March 11, 2015 3:36pm
stephieboy

Ed Snack, and lets not forget Jeb Bush’s oversights,

http://americanbridgepac.org/exposed-gops-dazzling-display-of-hypocrisy/

Tsk,tsk,tsk …!
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March 11, 2015 3:38pm
James Stephenson

John Key’s inability to wield a hammer impacts his ability to run the country … HOW, exactly?

He’s unable to give the correct response when the likes of Sky City hold their hand out for taxpayer dosh.
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March 11, 2015 3:43pm
Griff

“Welfare dependency

The latest update of the 11 better public service (BPS) targets has been released, along with a number of revised targets for higher-performing areas.

The results show nearly 5000 people came off long-term Jobseeker Support benefit in 2014 – a reduction of 6.6 per cent by September.

The target is to see a 25 per cent reduction in the total number of people receiving main benefits – 75,000 fewer people on welfare by June 2018.

The anti smacking law
Nothing to do with Helen “Harpy” Clark it was slappy sue the unemployed workers rights green who introduced the legislation

In the 12 months to September the number of children who experienced substantiated physical abuse also decreased by about 200 (-5.6 per cent)

,

To much money going to public servants and to many of them
‘to turducken right
Management incomes are obscene.
Government employees are bloated money wasters
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March 11, 2015 3:54pm
stigie

A sit-in as you call it Davinci will require a resource consent to get around the shit inside !~
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March 11, 2015 3:57pm
stigie

“While Penny has been battling city hall, the price of her next house has been increasing, too”.

Not on the West Coast of the South Island ole chap !~
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March 11, 2015 4:00pm
Gulag1917

Bureaucrats are holding NZ back from an even better performing economy. Get rid of the parasites.
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March 11, 2015 4:01pm
Ed Snack

Stephieboy, like Jeb, who was a mere Governor, last in office 8 years ago. Has released a portion, and the server in question was a state owned unit that is still available ? Wow, I though false equivalence was widely recognized as a remarkably poor argument, but you’re pushing it to new lows !

Why not bring up Colin Powell who used a private email address back in 2005 when he left office as Secretary of State, or wait, Richard Nixon never used a government email address, ever !

Let’s just summarise, Hilary Clinton used a private email server exclusively while she was Secretary of State, and never archived her official correspondence on government servers as is required. She has subsequently deposited some 55,000 pages of printed documents that represents her take on what is “official”, and has admitted deleting a number of others. At the same time as she was Secretary of State she (and Bill) were actively soliciting significant donations from foreign governments such as Algeria and Saudi Arabia.

So, do we have any grounds to trust that Hilary has indeed released everything related to her role as Secretary of State, as the law requires ? Do we trust her to delete only truly “personal” emails, not, say, those that ask for donations to the Clinton Foundation ?

If you are so trusting, I do have a bridge for sale that I’m sure you’re happy to believe is a legit deal…
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March 11, 2015 4:13pm
Griff

Still early but this is not what you want to see in a forecast
latest modeled cyclone path for Pam
http://www.wunderground.com/hurricane/south-pacific/2015/Tropical-Cyclone-Pam?map=5day
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March 11, 2015 4:13pm
Manolo

She is in hot water: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/11/us/hillary-clinton-email.html?_r=0
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March 11, 2015 4:19pm
cricko

Do any correspondents on this site pay ACC levies ?

Remember when Labours Ruth Dyson was in charge of ACC, not only did levies go up astronomicaly
for all self employed, buisnesses and all car owners registration fees but that silly incompetant ran up
a debt of hundreds of millions in debt.

Remember, “residual levies” under Labour ?
Did you get sick of having to pay that.
Contained in an envelope that had a legend on the outside,
“Contains important Levy information.”
Remember the good old days when Ruth Dyson was in charge ?

Later this year the cost of car rego will decrease for all Kiwis due to this govt getting ACC under some control.
Residual levies are a thing of the past.

Socialists are fools whose era has passed.

Ruth Dyson, Annette King, Carmel Seppuloni, Sue Moroney, Jacinda Ardern.
FFS.
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March 11, 2015 4:28pm
MT_Tinman

stigie (1,666 comments) says:
March 11th, 2015 at 4:00 pm

Not on the West Coast of the South Island ole chap !~

Give it a miss – they’d make the sandfly a protected species.
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March 11, 2015 4:33pm
twofish

The cold water of reality and hope for those who pay their rates –

Judge Harvey said he had no choice but to set aside the judgment. But he warned Ms Bright: “You may have won this battle, but the war is not over.”
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March 11, 2015 4:37pm
calendar girl

“The anti smacking law. Nothing to do with Helen “Harpy” Clark it was slappy sue the unemployed workers rights green who introduced the legislation”

Well aware of that, Griff, but Bradford’s Bill would never have passed without Helen Clark’s support and her private agreement with John Key. A healthy majority of the general population were opposed to the legislation, but were ignored. I hope that John Key lives to regret that capitulation.
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March 11, 2015 4:48pm
cricko

twofish
is that the same Judge Harvey that won ‘Mastermind’ on TVNZ some years ago ?

is that the same Judge Harvey who was persuaded by Paul Allen donating $40,000 to
Odysey House and therfore discharged him of drugs charges saying, “Enjoy our harbour.”
when he brought narcotics into NZ on his yatch when he came to watch the world cup ?

When Allen was represented by Marie Dyhberg ?

The incorruptable Judge Harvey ?

That “Judge” Harvey” ?
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March 11, 2015 4:50pm
publicwatchdog

Seems that a clip of Winston Peters (successfully) nailing his corflute Northland election hoarding to its frame is proving to be very popular.

Showing how a ‘real Kiwi bloke’ handles a hammer – as it were 😉

Think Winston Peters has ‘nailed it’ – whilst John Key has /is taking a ‘hammering’ on this one!

Just saying ….

Kind regards

Penny Bright
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March 11, 2015 4:55pm
dad4justice

“Showing how a ‘real Kiwi bloke’ handles a hammer – as it were”

Did you get hit in the head with a 10lb sledgehammer?
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March 11, 2015 4:57pm
Ross12

Clearly the Government have been in a lose – lose situation with the 1080 situation. O’Connor is saying that Key has damaged our exports by coming out with the facts

https://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/top-stories/26594702/key-overplays-hand-and-puts-dairy-trade-at-risk-oconnor/

While in an ideal world it would have been nice to not make the matter public . If the Govt. had kept it quiet longer then the Little/Norman/Hager/Vance /NZ Herald/ Dom Post crowd would have been screaming when it got out —lack of transparency etc.
Now it out Key is accused of being irresponsible.

If Key had approached the leaders of the other parties , on the quiet , to explain the situation and asked them to keep it quiet so the idiot did not get “oxygen” from the threat you can guarantee it would have been leaked in a way to make the Govt. look bad.

Thee was no way out for the Govt.
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March 11, 2015 5:00pm
graham

You may have missed my earlier comment, Penny, so I’ll repeat it.

I must admit I haven’t seen the video clip, but pray tell –

John Key’s inability to wield a hammer impacts his ability to run the country … HOW, exactly?
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March 11, 2015 5:03pm
Shawn Herles

“Seems that a clip of Winston Peters (successfully) ”

Seems that the anti-Key minority are getting desperate if this is the best they can come up with.

Question Penny.

Between Key and Peters, which has a verified, undeniable history of corruption?

The answer is Peters.

Supporting him makes your claim to being consistently anti-corruption a lie.

But then, we already knew it was bullshit.
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March 11, 2015 5:28pm
Griff

Police officer who shot dog with arrow charged
A Whakatane police officer who shot a dog with an arrow has now been charged – after police reversed an earlier decision not to charge the man.

Inspector Kevin Taylor, Area Commander for Eastern Bay of Plenty announced the decision in a statement this afternoon.

“In November 2014 police launched a criminal investigation into an incident in which
an off-duty police officer fired an arrow which shot and injured a dog in Whakatane.

“At the completion of that investigation a review concluded that the evidence did not reach the threshold for a criminal prosecution.

“As part of the ongoing employment enquiry a decision was made to seek a second legal opinion from Crown Law. As a result of that process the police officer has now been charged with reckless ill treatment of an animal under the Animal Welfare Act.

“While the matter is before the court there will be no further police comment.”
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March 11, 2015 5:56pm
publicwatchdog

errrr ….. as some of you silly billy Kiwibloggers seem to have overdosed on your THICK pills today ( meant of course in a caring way;) let me explain as simply and clearly as I possibly can?

Ok.

NZ (part-time) Prime Minister John Key, isn’t actually an ordinary, good old Kiwi bloke.

John Key is an ex-Wall Street banker, a former foreign exchange advisor to the New York Federal Reserve.

One of the 1% – as it were – looking after the interests of the 1%, locally, nationally and internationally

So – how do you transmogrify this ex-Wall Street banker, into Mr Popular Prime Minister?

You get this ex-Wall Street banker to ‘mix and mingle’ out on the streets with as many people as possible, with that friendly wave and smiling face….

To give credit where it’s due, his spin doctors Crosby Textor, have arguably to date, done a BRILLIANT job.

In my view, John Key must be one of the most ‘spin-doctored’ politicians on the planet.

But politically ‘f**k one goat’ (as it were 😉 and that can be end of you, or the beginning of the end of you.

In my view, that viraling video clip of John Key being so spectacularly inept on the end of a hammer, will hopefully help LOTS of ordinary Kiwis FINALLY ‘get it’?

John Key is no more an ‘ordinary Kiwi bloke’ than I’m a purple alien from Planet Jupiter.

HINT: To those Kiwibloggers who may still be under the influence of their THICK pill overdose?

I’m NOT actually a purple alien from Planet Jupiter 😉

Hope that helps explain things?

In my considered opinion – of course 🙂

Kind regards

Penny Bright

http://www.pennybright4mayor.org.nz
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March 11, 2015 6:00pm
publicwatchdog

Loyal American citizen Shawn Herles, can you please explain why YOU are apparently SO concerned about the outcome of the NEW ZEALAND Northland by-election?

Whose interests are YOU serving?

WHY is it of such concern to YOU?

Just asking …..

Kind regards

Penny Bright
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March 11, 2015 6:05pm
thedavincimode

Good grief waterwoman, you really are a fuckwit.
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March 11, 2015 6:14pm
Griff

I’m NOT actually a purple alien from Planet Jupiter 😉
We know that penny you are actually just an over blown, lefty biased, self opinionated, bludging, cat wearing, weirdo from Auckland.
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March 11, 2015 6:16pm
Reid

Hope that helps explain things?

Penny the issue is if you’re looking for something you’ll find it, especially to the extent you’re not too bright.

So the cop investigating the murder makes up his idiot mind that X is guilty and busily without even knowing it, his subconscious works to find facts that fits his preconceived view and rejects facts that don’t.

This happens all the time to both stoopid and intelligent people in all areas of life and the only way to stop it from poisoning your thinking is to know it happens and be alert to it.

And if you don’t do that, you’re fucked.

It works on emotion.

So if you get all emotional about, for example, Key is a rich wanker who treads all over people as soon as he walks out the front door because that’s simply what rich people love to do cos they’re all c**ts, then this is precisely what your subconscious is going to create out of thin air whether or not it’s in fact true. You’ll think it’s true and you’ll believe it’s true and nothing but nothing will convince you it’s not true because as far as you’re concerned, you’re wise and objective and astute cos you’d know if it wasn’t true. And you then of course proceed to find “facts” that fit.

The key (har har) to avoiding this of course is not to get all emotional about it in the first place.

The moment you do that, you’re screwed.

The moment you free yourself from that, you become one of the freest thinkers on the planet, to the extent you’re good at it which means you can apply it to every subject no matter what it is, politics, religion, economics, welfare, family, love, marriage, children, music, the interweb, geopolitics, Syria, ISIS, John Key, Helen Clark, AGW, the NWO, Israel, the UN, nukes, Iran, etc etc etc etc etc.

Not sure what your skill level is re: that Penny.

My sense is you need to work at it almost, but not quite, as much as Captain Bananas does.
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March 11, 2015 6:17pm
graham

Sooo, what you seem to be saying Penny is that John Key is not an ordinary Kiwi bloke. Because of course, all ordinary Kiwi blokes can wield a hammer. Bit of a narrow viewpoint there, but okay, let’s accept that for now.

Well as we all know, all ordinary Kiwi blokes can also cook a barbeque, would jump at the opportunity to hang out with Richie McCaw, think a romantic date is taking your girlfriend to the A&P show, and like to drink a beer from time to time.

Hmmm. So that’s four ticks for John Key being an ordinary Kiwi bloke versus your one strike against. Err … I’d say he’s winning out as being more of a Kiwi bloke than you might be prepared to admit there, Penny.

And you still haven’t explained … how exactly does an inability to use a hammer stop him from running the country? I’ll put it more simply for you if you like Penny … what exactly does a Prime Minister need to be able to use a hammer for in their day to day running of the country?
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March 11, 2015 6:23pm
IGM

Is it the ingredients of a Good Kiwi man to pee on a footpath outside the “Green Parrot”?
Does Winnie realise that JK can afford to employ a carpenter, and he does not screw Kiwi taxpayers for $158,000?
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March 11, 2015 6:27pm
Shawn Herles

“Loyal American citizen Shawn Herles, can you please explain why YOU are apparently SO concerned about the outcome of the NEW ZEALAND Northland by-election?”

That’s a silly question Penny. I live here, work here, pay taxes here and am married to a Kiwi girl. Duh.

“Whose interests are YOU serving?”

The National Parties. Double duh.
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March 11, 2015 6:28pm
cricko

People forget far to easily what corrupt prats we have sitting in Judgement over us.

And how, if you have the money you will be directed to the right lawyer who has grease and who will see you right.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10820496

Now if that Paul Allen dismissal without conviction was not a corrupt settup
then I’ll go hee.

Fukin ‘Judge” Harvey…..

You must be joking.
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March 11, 2015 6:28pm
publicwatchdog

Are you aware of THIS poll David?
___________________________________________________________________________________________________

Little comes a long way in poll

Reported by New Plymouth’s Michael Riley and Christchurch’s Finn Jackson.

John Key can’t be in two electorates at once but he might want to be. A political poll in the New Plymouth electorate has Andrew Little miles ahead of current National MP Jonathan Young in the first New Plymouth poll since Andrew Little was made leader of the Labour Party.

This afternoon Insiders New Zealand published a political poll with just over 500 eligible voters asking New Plymouth voters “If the election were held today who would you choose for MP of New Plymouth?” The results are so damaging that John Key should start thinking about racing to Taranaki with roading incentives instead of Northland.

56.17% of the voters polled said they would vote the Labour Leader Andrew Little, compared to current National MP Jonathan Young’s 26.09%. This means that Jonathan Young has drooped in the polls by 32%. This is a shocking result for National and MP Jonathan Young.

7.56% said they were not sure who they’d vote for, but what’s destructive is that even if these 7% of voters choose Jonathan Young this would not affect Andrew Little’s result.

And if it couldn’t get any worse for the former safe blue seat it has. 78.92% of those that wish to vote Andrew Little will also vote for the Labour Party and just 11.07% will not. 13.21% were not sure. At the previous election 32.58% of Andrew Little’s voters did not vote for Labour, but if the election were held today the poll results show that only 11.07% of Andrew Little’s voters would not vote Labour.

This result in its self is promising for Mr Little and will have the National Party on high alert in the New Plymouth electorate.

The poll was completed a day after it was revealed National’s John Key knew about a milk threat scare five months before it was published to the public. This is just another in a string of scandals and unpopular decisions, Mr Key’s continuation of the hugely unsupported flag change, revelations involving the GCSB spying on our neighbours and trade partners, and the not-to-be-forgotten resignation of Northland MP Mike Sabin under mysterious circumstances are examples of these.

Yesterday it was revealed that former Labour MP Harry Duynhoven who was ousted as Mayor of the New Plymouth District Council in 2013 has been re-elected as a City Ward Councilor. Could this be an early indication of what the Andrew Little factor has bought to New Plymouth?

Northland has been a safe National Party supported seat for 66 years and recent political polls show New Zealand Firsts Winston Peters is set to take the seat from National candidate Mark Osborne.

The poll for Insiders was conducted by Michael Riley and surveyed the opinions of 500 people.
_________________________________________________________________________________________________

I’m interested in your view – because polling is your area of expertise.

Kind regards

Penny Bright
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March 11, 2015 6:30pm
publicwatchdog

Wonderful to see so many Kiwibloggers are reading and commenting on my posts 🙂

Thanks for that!

Especially those whom I thought were committed to just ‘scrolling past’?

Kind regards

Penny Bright

http://www.pennybright4mayor.org.nz
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March 11, 2015 6:33pm
Nostradamus

What kind of idiot signs off her blog comment with “Kind regards”?

FFS – this isn’t a letter to the editor page.
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March 11, 2015 6:34pm
Rowan

http://i.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/67240385/Evidence-pointed-to-Christine-Lundy-DNA-on-shirt-expert

Even if this is Christine Lundys brain tissue, is it that surprising that his partners DNA is on his shirt? Crown will have to do better than this if they are going to get anything to stick here!
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March 11, 2015 6:42pm
Manolo

The sad reality for you, corrupt-to-the-bone Miss Dim, is that nobody pays any attention to the litany of stupidities you spout here (polluting KB on a daily basis). So, do us a favor and fuck off!

[DPF: And that is Strike 1. Unacceptable to call a commenter corrupt or tell any other commenter to eff off]
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March 11, 2015 6:43pm
publicwatchdog

Look – here you go Kiwibloggers – see for yourselves :

ONE News

Yesterday at 2:10pm ·

John Key admitted this morning that he isn’t a handyman after video of him failing to hammer a nail into a billboard at the weekend drew a mocking response. “I did tell them I can’t do this very well,” he said. And when it comes to handyman work, the PM admits: “Bronagh gets a man in”. Check out his nail fail here.

https://www.facebook.com/ONENewsNZ/posts/10152610873281218
___________________________________________________________________________________________________

‘No nail fail here’ – Winston Peters’ Northland by-election quip (0:08)

Added: 4:36PM Wednesday March 11, 2015

Source: Facebook, Winston Peters

The NZ First leader pokes fun at John Key’s fumbled attempt to nail up a billboard.

http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/no-nail-fail-here-winston-peters-northland-election-quip-video-6252845

__________________________________________________________________________________________________

See Kiwibloggers?

Aren’t I SWEET to you?

(Even you mean and nasty ones? 😉

Doing the research so you don’t have to?

Kind regards

Penny Bright
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March 11, 2015 6:43pm
cricko

Bill Hodge (academic) says ‘Judge” Harvey is one of our best.

How sick is that ?

Anyway, now that Shawn and Public watchdog are engaged that’s it for tonite.
No other subject will get a word in.

Not even a fuckwit Lundy arse licker like Rowan.

Good luck to your families.
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March 11, 2015 6:44pm
publicwatchdog

Gee Shawn!

Do the National Party pay you for your invaluable services to them on Kiwiblog?

I mean – you do SO much to help them!

Just asking …..

Kind regards

Penny Bright
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March 11, 2015 6:47pm
publicwatchdog

Nostradumbass!

(Sorry – I just can’t help myself 🙁

YOU are actually reading to the end of my posts!

Good on YOU!

Well done.

Keep going – and you may learn something.

KIND REGARDS

Penny Bright
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March 11, 2015 6:51pm
nasska

Everyone reads the end of your posts….those are the parts that make breathing worth doing.
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March 11, 2015 6:54pm
Nostradamus

Penny Bright:

Did you miss this comment:

Nostradamus (2,620 comments) says:
March 4th, 2015 at 4:26 pm

Penny Bright:

errr…. Nostradumbass – (sorry – I couldn’t resist it

That’s really mature Penny – as well as a breach of the Kiwiblog comments policy:

Personal Details

Give other commenters the courtesy of referring to them by the name or alias they use on this blog. Do not reveal personal details about them such as their name, address, phone number etc. unless it is somehow connected to a public issue. If in doubt, check.

And you wonder why you get a bad reception here…

DPF has given people warnings and strikes for what you’ve just done.

Look at your behaviour on this thread – stop trolling.
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March 11, 2015 6:57pm
Inandout

Why do political leaders choose to do public displays of incompetence such as JK and the nailing incident? There was Don Brash trying to get his body into a vehicle of some sort, legs and arms flailing, and Cunny with his ‘man’ statement. They get played on the net again and again, and make them look idiots.
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March 11, 2015 6:58pm
stigie

Fucking nuts !!
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March 11, 2015 6:59pm
cricko

‘Kin idiots will now discuss Penny and Nostradamus
for the evening.

‘Kin drongs.

Jeez, even stigie gets it.

Good luck drongs.
Have a great night.
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March 11, 2015 7:01pm
Nookin

Nostradamus.

Thanks for posting the extracts from the judgment. I was curious as to the basis for the decision because I couldnt see how, after so many intimations that there is no defence, a court could suddenly change its view. I do recall that, at one stage, council advised the court that the amount claimed was understated in error. It may be that The final amount claimed will be in excess of the judgment that has just been set aside.

I did ask Penny to post the judgment yesterday and have not seen any sign of it. Now I know why. After all the posturing about consultants, contractors, inadequate information, defective assessments and illegality of gst on penalties, her victory comes down to a mathematical cock up by the council. Still, I suppose it delays matters and that seems to be her aim.
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March 11, 2015 7:17pm
Reid

Why do political leaders choose to do public displays of incompetence such as JK and the nailing incident?

Because their advisers are so profoundly incompetent they haven’t even detected the profoundly obvious fact that the media have been looking for every single excuse they can to degrade Key’s public image and they haven’t even noticed the startlingly obvious propaganda to that end which the media have been running 24/7/365 in every article and photo and video clip on all channels across all media ever since the election on every single story which featured the PM.

I don’t know why they’re so profoundly incompetent in these areas since it’s what they’re paid to do for a living, FFS. But apparently and evidently, as we can all see for ourselves since they’ve allowed this no-brainer hit piece to get through, they are.
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March 11, 2015 7:23pm
publicwatchdog

Sorry Nookin – I don’t yet have a copy of Judge Harvey’s decision.

I have actually explained on Kiwiblog the basis upon which this ‘Judgment’ was ‘set aside’ – which is what I was seeking.

I can’t actually be bothered finding it – but if you have a look – you can find it.

Cheers

Penny Bright
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March 11, 2015 7:45pm
Odakyu-sen

Japan marks the 4th anniversary of the Great East Japan Earthquake on March 11th 2011.
http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2015/03/11/national/survivors-mark-4-years-since-311-disasters/#.VP_oXPmUc30

15,891 people dead and 2,584 missing

“The anniversary comes at a time when post-quake reconstruction in hard-hit Iwate, Miyagi and Fukushima prefectures remains incomplete, with many evacuees still forced to live away from their hometowns amid decommissioning work at the crippled Fukushima No. 1 nuclear power plant and decontamination work across Fukushima Prefecture.”

This is just the beginning of the recovery.
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March 11, 2015 8:05pm
Maggy Wassilieff

A response to yesterday’s Dom Post opinion piece on climate warming
has been posted on ClimateConversation blog-site

http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2015/03/the-profiteers-of-doom-are-at-it-again/#more-20701
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March 11, 2015 8:10pm
Reid

This is just the beginning of the recovery.

Unless they can get Fukushima under control, there’s isn’t going to be any recovery.

Still, if they have to evacuate Tokyo and possibly the whole of Southern Japan because they can’t get it under control, then isn’t it lucky the Chinese built all those empty cities, with no people, just waiting to be filled.

Wonder how they knew about that.

Probably just a coincidence.

Of course it was.

Naturally.
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March 11, 2015 8:14pm
Griff

by Christopher Monckton of Brenchley

Maggie is he your idea of a scientist?
😆
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=i6RYb7ZQupE
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March 11, 2015 8:19pm
Odakyu-sen

Reid,

It’s a mess. Read the Japan Times article (it’s all in English).

Also, Snowden’s alleged revelations of NZ spying on Japan and China (I didn’t know they had the people with the skills to process all that Japanese language data (must be using computers)) has hit the press in Japan. Not a good look. (The are lots of conspiracy nuts in Japan as well as in NZ, so some things are the same the world over…)
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March 11, 2015 8:25pm
Maggy Wassilieff

@ Griff 8:19

There are very many peculiar people in the scientific world. At the end of the day, its their science that counts, not their personal foibles.
(But honestly, you’re on thin ice attacking personalities–leave that to the Greenpeace witch-hunters)

Did you even bother reading Monkton’s reply? Not exactly data-free; in contrast to the once-over-lightly opinion piece in the Dompost.
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March 11, 2015 8:40pm
Nostalgia-NZ

Nookin, I must be reading from different information in terms of Penny Bright. When the Judgement was set aside yesterday I read that it was because a zealous council official had wrongfully added in legal costs to the rates demand which he or she was not entitled to do, and the ‘real’ amount owed might be half of what the council were claiming. I also checked back to the earlier hearing, bearing in mind Judge Harvey’s cautionary advice to Penny Bright about winning a battle but not necessary the war, and found that Judge Mary Beth Sharp commented at the earlier hearing, that the imperative for a rate payer to pay their rates did not crystalize until the council had fulfilled its obligations to the rate payer(s.) So the situation is still not clear one way or the other.
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March 11, 2015 8:42pm
Reid

Also, Snowden’s alleged revelations of NZ spying on Japan and China (I didn’t know they had the people with the skills to process all that Japanese language data (must be using computers)) has hit the press in Japan. Not a good look.

Yeah but who cares?

The sheeple?

Since when have the sheeple mattered, either here or in Japan or anywhere else?

Not sure about you but nothing Snowden has ever revealed has ever surprised me. All it’s ever done is confirm what I already knew. And I knew all of it simply because I’d bothered to educate myself on how these things like Five Eyes works. And that info has been around to those of us curious in it since the 1980s. If you knew where to look. In the public resources.

Which means if I could know all of that, then all the political people in whatever country, from politicians to officials in key positions, also already knew about it, which means the whole thing is so fucking what, life goes on, who cares. Big freakin deal. In the circles that matter. Which doesn’t include the sheeple circles. That’s what the sheeple can’t get their heads around. If it ever even occurs to them.

The thing which amuses me about this spy shit is the schoolgirl hysteria that the journos act out with it. I mean these guys are fucking fools. These journos who get all concerned about listening to Merkels phone calls or whatever have no idea. They don’t realise that in the real world this data is kill or be killed. The fools treat it like a game. It’s anything but.

Stakes are things like Fukushima O-S. As-in, what really happened there and why.
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March 11, 2015 8:51pm
graham

Fascinating!

All that fuss about John Key’s supposed inability to use a hammer, but Penny STILL can’t tell us why it actually matters in terms of his running the country!
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March 11, 2015 8:54pm
Griff

😆
Monkton’s lies his arse off
Not exactly data-free just the actual truth is lacking

the RSS satellites show no warming since the end of 1996, and all other datasets are within statistical shouting distance of that.
lie
https://www.skepticalscience.com/trend.php

the rate of global warming in the 25 years since 1990 has been half of the central business-as-usual estimate which the IPCC had so confidently but misguidedly predicted, even though CO2 concentration has risen faster than the IPCC’s then prediction
Lie….
http://www.skepticalscience.com/pics/FAR_2012.jpg

Interestingly, Grinsted also showed that sea level was higher than today by 20 cm in the mediaeval climate optimum (or warm period, for warmer is better than colder), and lower than today by 20 cm during the little ice age about 300 years ago. Sea level does not change much in modern conditions, and, according to Professor Niklas Mörner in a 2011 paper, it may not be rising at all at present.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nils-Axel_M%C3%B6rner ..a crank.
Along with bullshit according to Grinsted paper
http://www.glaciology.net/Home/PDFs/Announcements
ftp://soest.hawaii.edu/coastal/Climate%20Articles/Grinsted%20Jevrejeva%202009%20SLR.pdf

What about ocean “acidification”? The Professor mentions it, of course, but fails to mention that it cannot happen. For the oceans are overwhelmingly buffered by the alkaline rock basins in which they lie. For that reason, the oceans are pronouncedly alkaline themselves and – under anything like today’s conditions – must remain so.
Gee ocean chemistry says different
http://www.pmel.noaa.gov/co2/story/What+is+Ocean+Acidification%3F

And on it goes… Monckton a wingnut well known for lies….
really Maggie are you actually that gullible ?
Or is it realty is to hard to contemplate?
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March 11, 2015 9:21pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Am I gullible? I don’t think so, but I’m happy to be proved wrong.

I’m also happy to think for myself and don’t have too much respect for folks who like to close down information sources/ research.
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March 11, 2015 10:18pm
Puzzled in Ekatahuna

Graham – All that fuss about John Key’s supposed inability to use a hammer, but Penny STILL can’t tell us why it actually matters in terms of his running the country!

Graham, you are dealing with someone who has more than a mild obsession – in fact, is a little mentally unhinged – and she, the journalists, camera person covering the matter, and the channel transmitting it are all fucking morons.
The next nail may have been hammered in perfectly, but that’s not news.
What does it matter – nailing fucking billboards up isn’t really Key’s job.

As for Penny herself, she has found a glitch in the rules – section 45 [g] of the Local Government Rates Act, which says the rates assessment should carry information it doesn’t.
Do people think Auckland Council will now issue rates bills that need to be about 3-4 pages of A4 to cover what she wants – every 3 months or however often people get their rates bills?
Council would have to employ one person just to continually update it – and just to keep one rate-payer happy.
It won’t likely happen – it will be cheaper to fudge things so she just keeps raving on and the money they loose will be a hell of lot less than comply, until they can get central government to change the law.

And listing contracts as Bright wants still will not satisfy her.
She will next want COEs upper staff listed and pecuniary interests declared to check for conflict of interest. Private staff information and dozens more sheets of paper per rate payer.
Does anyone think there will be a point where it stops and Bright pays her rates?

No back rates, in my humble opinion either, for a start. Why will she pay for the years where Auckland Council has not complied?

See what happens when a little logic is applied to a mentally unbalanced situation?
Don’t waste your precious time.

Not So Completely Puzzled 🙂
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March 11, 2015 10:23pm
Nookin

Nostalgia

I only have access to what is reported here and, occasionally, superficial reports on the internet. There were earlier reports that that council had understated the amount owing. The comments by Judge Sharpe includedd the warning that Penny needed to produce the evidence substantiating the claim. I also note that her comment appeared to be an ad hoc comment without legal argument. It looks as though the District Court is not concerned with that issue given Penny’s intention to engage counsel and go to the High Court.
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March 12, 2015 7:04am
Griff

I’m also happy to think for myself and don’t have too much respect for folks who like to close down information sources/ research.
you are not thinking you are following the right wing herd.
Applying your standards to your source maggie

The Monckton Files: More Threats! | Climate Asylum
https://bbickmore.wordpress.com/2010/…/the-monckton-files-more-threats/
Lord Monckton Threatens Climate Scientists, Again
http://www.desmogblog.com/2013/03/02/lord-monckton-threatens-climate-scientists-again
Recursive lying: Monckton rails against liars by telling lies
hot-topic.co.nz/recursive-lying-monckton-rails-against-liars-by-telling-lies/
Hate-speech promoter Lord Monckton tries to censor John …
thinkprogress.org/climate/2010/…/lord-monckton-censor-john-abraham/
Jul 15, 2010 – Monbiot calls it “magnificently bonkers,” pointing out “how frequently climate change deniers resort to demands for censorship or threats of …
http://theidiottracker.blogspot.co.nz/2013/04/has-christopher-monckton-ever-won.html
Idiot Tracker: Has Christopher Monckton ever won a lawsuit?
Apr 22, 2013 – Christopher Monckton is an ignorant, incompetent, dishonest, …. the day: Has Monckton ever actually followed through on his profuse threats, …
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March 12, 2015 7:18am
flipper

A personal message for Griffie, devoid of ad hominem invective:

Here’s an article in response to these highly-politicized and counter-factual “scientists”. Time to cut off their budgets. – Christopher

The Viscount Monckton of Brenchley
27 Queen Street, Edinburgh, EH2 1JX
+44 131-225 5551: cell +44 7814 556423
monckton@mail.com

The profiteers of doom are at it again
By Christopher Monckton of Brenchley

When climate scientists unfairly give only one side of the story, as Professor Wratt et al. did earlier this week (Opinion, Dominion Post, February 10), taxpayers should keep a tight grip on their wallets.
The Professor starts out by saying the world is 0.9 Kelvin warmer than in the late 19th century. What he does not say is that in absolute terms this represents an increase of just 0.3%. Unspectacular.

Next, we are told that “last year – 2014 – was the warmest year globally since comprehensive records began in about 1880”. Actually, the global instrumental temperature record began in 1850, but let that pass. The HadCRUT record, kept since that year, shows 1998 as warmer than 2010, with warm spikes in 2002 and 2011 also above anything in 2014.
The RSS and UAH satellite datasets also do not show 2014 as the warmest year on the record. Only two of the five global reference datasets – GISS and NCDC – show 2014 as the record.
And, as the director of GISS admitted, his record showed only a 38% probability that 2014 was the warmest, and even then only by a hundredth of a degree.

Notwithstanding record rises in CO2 concentration, the RSS satellites show no warming since the end of 1996, and all other datasets are within statistical shouting distance of that. Professor Wratt calls this 18-year-long absence of global warming a “short-term wiggle”.

Let us go back a full quarter of a century to the first multi-thousand-page Holy Book in the Pentateuch of the UN’s climate panel. The druids then stated their “substantial confidence” that the computer models had captured the principal features of global climate.

Well, they hadn’t. On all five global temperature datasets, the rate of global warming in the 25 years since 1990 has been half of the central business-as-usual estimate which the IPCC had so confidently but misguidedly predicted, even though CO2 concentration has risen faster than the IPCC’s then prediction. As Professor Feynman used to say, “If it disagrees with experiment, it’s wrong.”

Next, Professor Wratt talks of “Arctic sea ice melting”. Though he also mentions Antarctica, he fails to mention that sea ice there has been on a strong uptrend since satellite monitoring began 35 years ago, and that as recently as September last year the extent of global sea ice was greater for the time of year than ever before.
The Professor may like to read Doran et al. (2004), on the damage done by extreme cold in some Antarctic glens. Warmer is better. Yet he says Arctic ecosystems are being “affected”.

Take polar bears. The Professor says there is no peer-reviewed evidence for an increase in their numbers. Let him read Peacock et al. (2013), for instance, which finds polar bears have increased to carrying capacity in the Davis Strait.

Then, inevitably, sea level. Professor Wratt says, “The average rate of sea-level rise during the past century has been larger than the average during the past 2000 years.” But that type of comparison of a short period with a long one (where short periods of sharp rise and fall are averaged out) is statistical malpractice.
Is the rate of sea-level rise over the past century greater than in any previous century? That is the right question, but the Professor did not ask it. So I asked it. Grinsted et al. (2009) showed that between 950 and 1050 AD, as the medieval climate optimum took hold, the rate of sea-level rise was no less great than in the past century. Not many SUVs about in those days.
Interestingly, Grinsted also showed that sea level was higher than today by 20 cm in the mediaeval climate optimum (or warm period, for warmer is better than colder), and lower than today by 20 cm during the little ice age about 300 years ago. Sea level does not change much in modern conditions, and, according to Professor Niklas Mörner in a 2011 paper, it may not be rising at all at present.

And why should it? One of the best-kept secrets in the climate debate is that the 3600 automated bathythermograph floats of the ARGO project, which measure the temperature of the upper 2000 m of the extrapolar ocean and report the results by satellite, show warming over their 11-year record at a rate equivalent to just 0.2 Kelvin (or Celsius degrees) per century. The Professor is careful to tell us the oceans are warming, but he is just as careful not to reveal just how little it is warming.

It is only by warming the ocean that we can cause sea level to rise. But after up to 18 years without any global warming, and up to 26 years without any statistically significant warming, the Professor’s statements about low-lying small islands being at risk from rising seas, and about “heat-induced mass coral bleaching” are unfounded.

Coral islands actually grow as sea level grows. It is no mere coincidence that thousands of coral atolls worldwide are exactly at or just above sea level. They have grown that way because sea level has risen by 130 m in the past 11,700 years. That is well over a metre a century, compared with just 0.2 metres in the 20th century.
The corals have simply grown to match. Besides, the satellite records from ENVISAT showed sea level rising from 2004-2012 at a rate of 3 cm per century.

The GRACE gravitational-anomaly satellites actually showed sea level falling from 2003-2009, so the data had to be adjusted to create a large enough sea-level rise to keep the panic dollars flowing.
As for coral bleaching, indeed it did occur during the natural Great el Nino of 1998, which transiently but sharply warmed the oceans. However, coral stratigraphy has shown that in the two previous great el Ninos over the past 300 years the corals bleached too, and those episodes too were nothing to do with us.

What about ocean “acidification”? The Professor mentions it, of course, but fails to mention that it cannot happen. For the oceans are overwhelmingly buffered by the alkaline rock basins in which they lie. For that reason, the oceans are pronouncedly alkaline themselves and – under anything like today’s conditions – must remain so.
Besides, the corals have survived for 550 million years. They even survived the last genuine acidification of the oceans, 55 million years ago. After all, many reefs are directly in the firing-line of river estuaries, where floods can bring millions of gallons of rainwater into the oceans and straight on to the reefs.
Rainwater is truly acid, at a pH of 5.4 (7 being neutral). The oceans are alkaline, at a mean pH of 7.9. Yet the corals do not curl up and die when rainwater hits them. They thrive.
Besides, there is no global network of pH measurements, and no standard equipment for making the measurements. All we have are a few random transects by research vessels, and a few local data series.
But should we expect ocean “acidification” to be happening? No. Despite almost 300 years of industrialization, with all the benefits that has brought to Man, one of the biggest secrets in the climate debate is that, to the nearest tenth of one per cent, there is no CO2 in the air at all.
Besides, if the oceans were warming as rapidly as the Professor imagines, the warmer water would outgas CO2, partly balancing such tiny changes in pH as might otherwise have occurred.

Next, we are told that “Glaciers have continued to shrink long-term almost worldwide”. In fact, there are more than 160,000 glaciers worldwide. Most of them have never been visited or measured by Man.
Some glaciers have shrunk, revealing forests, mountain passes and even an entire silver mine underneath, showing that they had been far less extensive than today in the Middle Ages.
But in Antarctica, where there has been little or no warming according to the UN’s climate panel, there is no reason to suppose that most glaciers are receding.

Then the Professor says a “substantial contribution” to global warming since 1950 must have come from greenhouse gases because he cannot think of any other explanation. That is the shop-soiled Aristotelian fallacy of the argument from ignorance. It has no place in the writings of any true scientist.

Just look at the increase in solar activity from the Grand Minimum of 1545-1715 to the near-Grand Maximum of 1925-1975, peaking in 1960. Allow for the massive thermal inertia of the oceans (one reason why one need not fear rapid climate change), and the record increase in solar activity over the past 300 years is quite enough, on its own, to explain all the trivial warming of around 0.6-0.7 K that we have seen since 1950. I’d expect some contribution from Man now and in future, but, on balance, not a lot.

Next, the Professor reveals he has not kept current with the paleoclimate literature. He says that for the Northern Hemisphere the past 30 years were the warmest such period in the past 1400 years.
However, the evidence from proxy reconstructions, rather than from people playing with failed computer models, is near-unanimous in finding the medieval warm period real, global, and almost everywhere warmer than the present. I can provide some 450 scientific papers establishing this fact not by modelling but by measurement.
The Professor then shows ignorance of the learned journals of agricultural science. He says that climate change “risks severe yield decreases” in wheat, rice and maize. Yet tests at agricultural stations have shown that yield increases of 20-40% are to be expected in these staple crops owing to what is known as CO2 fertilization.
For CO2 is plant food, and its atmospheric concentration at present is close to the lowest in the long-term record.
Finally, the Professor says, “Changes have been observed in many extreme weather events”. Yet the UN’s climate panel says otherwise. It reports no changes in the frequency, intensity or duration of floods, droughts, tropical cyclones, hurricanes, typhoons, extra-tropical storms or tornadoes. Deaths owing to extreme weather are close to an all-time low, having fallen dramatically over the past half-century.

As is traditional among true-believers in Thermageddon, the Professor ends on an apocalyptic note almost entirely absent in the reviewed literature on climate change. I was a co-author of Legates et al. (2013), which found that of 11,944 papers on climate and related matters published in the 21 years 1991-2011 just 64, or 0.5%, even went so far as to state that most of the global warming since 1950 was manmade.

Very few of even these papers said global warming would be dangerous. The notion that it may be dangerous, therefore, is almost entirely political, and has very few explicit endorsements anywhere in the reviewed papers published in the learned journals of science.
It is precisely because too many “scientists” have been too selective with their facts and have preferred models to data that the climate scare is still running. The day of reckoning is at hand, however.
Already the entire board of the CSIRO in Australia has been sacked, at least in part because the institution, like so many, prostituted science for profit.

As the profiteers of doom [including our much laughed at Griffie] continue to be proven wrong by events, more heads will roll. And good riddance. They have flung science back into the Dark Ages.
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March 12, 2015 9:01am

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