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February 8, 2015 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 8 February 2015

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General Debate

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stigie

“Damned sad to see Kea gone”.

But dear Reddy could be back Thursday !~
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February 8, 2015 8:09pm
big bruv

Yvette

So if he did ten years per murder then he would only have 29 more to go.
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February 8, 2015 8:10pm
publicwatchdog

Crikey boyz – play nicely in the Kiwiblog General Debate sandpit – or I’ll bang your bloody heads together!

Just kidding …. 😉

I mean – how could I possibly do that when I don’t know who (most of you) actually are? 😉

Seems Shawn is now feeling particularly ‘sheepish’ and has threatened to leave and find another ‘hobby’ or something?

Nah – I for one have learned that Shawn is not a man of his word.

He’ll be back.

And if he isn’t?

How sad, too bad – never mind …. (sob 😉

(Meant of course in a caring way )

Penny Bright

http://www.pennybright4mayor.org.nz
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February 8, 2015 8:10pm
big bruv

Where is Bedwetter anyway?
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February 8, 2015 8:11pm
Johnboy

You have to admit though Yvette that the torching of the Bain residence did wonders for property values in the local area! ” 🙂
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February 8, 2015 8:12pm
Johnboy

You know who I am Penny. I’m the chap whose still waiting for that damned barbed wire! 🙂
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February 8, 2015 8:15pm
William of Ockham

Yep, the glasses are irrelevant. And the rifle.

Hey, that can’t be right … “They’re all dead”.

“Except me. Daddy thought I was the only one who deserved to stay.”

Yeah, right!
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February 8, 2015 8:15pm
srylands

Penny you are not qualified to comment on Australian politics. As an unemployed communist rates defaulter you can’t be taken seriously as a commentator on the leadership of the Australian Liberal Party.
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February 8, 2015 8:16pm
stigie

Had to take a weeks holiday BB.

And it was you damn progs that made him take it to ?
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February 8, 2015 8:16pm
UglyTruth

I particularly like Ugly Truths effort @ 6.42 where he issues the devastating challenge.

“Can you explain the timeline ? If not, your the fool.”

Like talking with an eight year old.

Perhaps I should explain it for you then, cricko

If there is no explanation for the timeline then there is no way that Lundy is the killer.

If Lundy is not the killer then the most probable explanation for brain matter (if that is what it was) on his shirt is that it was planted there because they had the opportunity and because that is their MO for high profile unsolved crimes.
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February 8, 2015 8:19pm
big bruv

stigie

Oh, OK. I thought he might have had another of his “I’m leaving and never coming back” moments. We are just about due for one of those.
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February 8, 2015 8:19pm
UglyTruth

Ugly claims the Crown is planting evidence, Nostalgia and Rowan will lap that shit up.

Not yet, there might be another explanation.
But until someone can come up with a timeline that works that is where the argument is.
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February 8, 2015 8:22pm
fylde

Thankfully kea is not around – he may have even have blamed this on some religious group
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February 8, 2015 8:23pm
stigie

Nah BB, he will just come back angrier and bitter !~
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February 8, 2015 8:24pm
Yvette

Srylands
No, not qualified, but read up enough to see what is mostly likely to happen – predict, in your considered opinion, the Oz Prime Minister is toast, and bingo… come to pass and you are a fucking whistleblowing genius – Queen of the Sandpit

Johnboy, peut-être David convenu pour cette raison
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February 8, 2015 8:24pm
William of Ockham

No, UglyTruth, no explanation for the timeline does not mean “no way” Lundy is the killer. Any more than is no explanation for some physical observations mean reality does not exist. At least for some of us. 🙂
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February 8, 2015 8:25pm
UglyTruth

I thought he might have had another of his “I’m leaving and never coming back” moments. We are just about due for one of those.

Wonder what sent that off..

Anglican guy (Gray) makes an arse of himself.
Finding out that the royal family are fakes.
ISIS & Mossad with McCain photo?
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February 8, 2015 8:27pm
UglyTruth

No, UglyTruth, no explanation for the timeline does not mean “no way” Lundy is the killer.

Yeah, it really does. It’s effectively his alibi, and the burden of proof is on of the prosecution.
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February 8, 2015 8:29pm
fylde

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/syrian-refugees-with-four-million-people-languishing-in-camps-in-turkey-lebanon-and-jordan-the-un-calls-for-organised-quota-system-10031404.html

Sure many of these Syrian refugees would make good NZers. We should consider letting some come over here
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February 8, 2015 8:31pm
publicwatchdog

And what is your qualification Slylands to comment on my comments?

😉

Kind regards

Penny Bright

http://www.pennybright4mayor.org.nz
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February 8, 2015 8:32pm
Johnboy

Get a grip fylde! We have to save room in Howick for another million or so chinks old boy! 🙂
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February 8, 2015 8:34pm
William of Ockham

No, UglyTruth, that’s not logical. He could still be the killer quite regardless of the evidence found, produced in court or accepted by a jury.
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February 8, 2015 8:34pm
waikatogirl

UT: And the sooner Mark Lundy is re convicted and sent back to rot in jail where he belongs the better.

***
Lundy was in the hole for $2m and being put into bankruptcy. That’s a lot of reasons to save your reputation by hatching a bad murder plan for the life insurance payout…
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February 8, 2015 8:40pm
Rowan

Ugly Truth
Agreed, look we are now left with “could be” from William of Ockham, still waiting for the explanation of “how”, which I won’t be holding my breath for! (Either here or from the crown at the retrial!)
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February 8, 2015 8:40pm
fylde

Johnboy – we all have some obligation to think about humanity. Let them in to work hard and create value of course not to be eligible for welfare
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February 8, 2015 8:41pm
Kanz

Silly, silly UglyTruth. Do you not know, no matter when they were killed, or what the evidence shows or doesn’t show, he could still be guilty. If William of Ockham says he is, then he must be. I don’t know why we bother with trials, or even evidence collecting. Sarc.
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February 8, 2015 8:44pm
UglyTruth

“It’s effectively his alibi, and the burden of proof is on of the prosecution.”

No, UglyTruth, that’s not logical.

What’s not logical about it? Facts or fallacy?

He could still be the killer quite regardless of the evidence found, produced in court or accepted by a jury.

Not if the evidence says that it was impossible for him to have been at the scene of the crime when it happened.
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February 8, 2015 8:54pm
William of Ockham

Kanz. Reality is reality and trials are a farce played by lawyers with no interest in truth or justice.
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February 8, 2015 8:55pm
renderer

Jesus wept, now you have to have a qualification to comment on Penny’s posts
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February 8, 2015 8:57pm
UglyTruth

That’s a lot of reasons to save your reputation by hatching a bad murder plan for the life insurance payout…

Yeah, you could argue motive. But unless he had the means to commit the crime why even go there?
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February 8, 2015 8:57pm
Rowan

Reality is reality and William of Ockham is just a media parasite whose entire objective is being proven “right” and has no interest in truth and justice!
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February 8, 2015 9:01pm
UglyTruth

Reality is reality and trials are a farce played by lawyers with no interest in truth or justice.

This isn’t a trial, and some of us have an interest in truth and justice.
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February 8, 2015 9:01pm
nasska

I reckon Goldilocks should have questioned the bears’ marriage…….papa bear & mama bear having separate beds was never a good sign.
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February 8, 2015 9:01pm
renderer

You could bloody near swear there was a full moon tonight.
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February 8, 2015 9:02pm
cricko

waikatogirl

Yep. A good point and one that will come out at the new trial.
The jurors will sniff that out (thanks William of O)

Same as the jurors will be asked to believe by the defence that someone else, with no discernable
motive (no evidence of a sex crime) just walked in off the street and axed to death
a mother and her daughter.

Thank sweet Jesus that there is not much chance that whackjobs like Ugly, Nostalg or Rowan will be on the jury.

Note to William of Ockham.
You seem to be a dude with some common sense so why so down on the British Justice system of trial by jury ?
Can you think of a better system ?
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February 8, 2015 9:03pm
Kanz

cricko, instead the jury should consist of the likes of WoO. People who think the the alibi doesn’t matter a damn, and the evidence doesn’t matter a damn. Using his logic you could be just as guilty as anybody.
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February 8, 2015 9:09pm
Rowan

Cricko/bereal

I don’t claim to know what happened to Christine and Amber Lundy, which should be the starting basis for all the jurors, the likes of you and William of Ockham are a joke! with your preconceived ideas of what you “know” happened!
This is a scenario only, I’m not claiming it as what happened, Lundy could be the killer, but “prove” that this “couldn’t” have happened

Mark has seriously fucked of someone in Palmerston North and that person goes around to his house to teach him a lesson, on finding him not there he destroys the lives of his nearest and dearest.
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February 8, 2015 9:11pm
William of Ockham

Try to get some order in your brain, Kanz. Are you trying to tell me a killer has not killed someone unless the police find enough evidence to persuade a jury? What world do you live in?
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February 8, 2015 9:13pm
UglyTruth

Same as the jurors will be asked to believe by the defence that someone else, with no discernable
motive (no evidence of a sex crime) just walked in off the street and axed to death
a mother and her daughter.

It’s not the jury’s job to solve the crime, their job is to determine whether or not Lundy is guilty.
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February 8, 2015 9:13pm
Michael

Probably too late to mention this again, all those nutjob David Bain supporters will probably have gone to beddybyes, but here is the proof that David Bain was wearing his mother’s glasses the weekend of the killings/murders.
[i] The glasses were in his room. They wouldn’t have been there if he hadn’t been wearing them. Of course Karam reckoned Robin Bain planted them there. Well, he would, wouldn’t he?
[ii] David Bain testified that he wore those glasses when his were unavailable. His glasses were unavailable because he had broken them the previous Thursday and they were in being repaired, as he told his aunt.
[iii] He said he wore them to watch TV. He testified he was watching a video on TV on the Sunday night.
[iv] He told his lawyer and co-counsel he had been wearing those glasses on the Sunday night .
[v] He told one of his aunts he had been wearing a pair of his mother’s glasses while his were in being repaired. He said they weren’t perfect but they got him by.
So the unanswered questions re those glasses is how did the frame come to be damaged less than 12 hours after David Bain said he was wearing them and how did one lens from those glasses come to be found in his brother’s room.
Of course Karam reckons Robin Bain must have bent that frame , so I guess he must also reckon that Robin tossed that lens into Stephen’s room.
But, hey, wouldn’t that have implicated the ” only one who deserved to stay”?
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February 8, 2015 9:20pm
cricko

UglyTruth @ 9.13

You have already proved today beyond any shadow of doubt that you are a fool.

No need to labour the point.
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February 8, 2015 9:23pm
Michael

I see one David Bain nutjob reckons he knows who turned the computer on. Don’t know how he would know that seeing as it could have been turned on between 6.39 a.m. and 6.49 a.m, according to the Crown’s computer expert.
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February 8, 2015 9:24pm
Michael

Rowan posted
Mark has seriously fucked of someone in Palmerston North and that person goes around to his house to teach him a lesson, on finding him not there he destroys the lives of his nearest and dearest.

No wonder this schmuck won’t accept that David Bain is a multiple murderer.
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February 8, 2015 9:27pm
UglyTruth

You have already proved today beyond any shadow of doubt that you are a fool.

And why should anyone take your word for it?
Looks to me a bit like a case of butthurt from when you tried to argue about the verse of swords.
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February 8, 2015 9:29pm
UglyTruth

No wonder this schmuck won’t accept that David Bain is a multiple murderer.

It’s the most reasonable position to take while nobody can find a timeline that puts Lundy there when the crime took place.
What other motive could there be?
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February 8, 2015 9:32pm
Griff

Help dpf
banity for sanity on gd post urgently needed.

as to guilt
god did it .
it says so on the label
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February 8, 2015 9:33pm
Rowan

Yawn
How many times has the retarded nutjob Aunt Fanny put up that bs about the glasses!
These are the same glasses that the court of appeal dismissed as irrelevant and not featuring strongly in the crown case.
Yet the stupid old women thinks she knows better! A shame she wasn’t in the prosecution, the judge could have done with the entertainment!!
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February 8, 2015 9:34pm
Rachael Membery

UglyTruth (4,911 comments) says:

February 8th, 2015 at 6:43 pm

I am pretty sure that it is the ‘brain’ matter test and varying experts opinions about it that is one of the planks of the Privy Council decision.
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February 8, 2015 9:37pm
Jack5

Another reason to keep Islam out of NZ – many Muslims would stop us from owning dogs.

In Iran, you can get 74 lashes for keeping a dog in your home or walking it in public.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/iran-dog-owners-be-lashed-74-times-new-national-ban-1473709
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February 8, 2015 9:42pm
UglyTruth

I am pretty sure that it is the ‘brain’ matter test and varying experts opinions about it that is one of the planks of the Privy Council decision.

It found the method used to test the speck of brain tissue found on Mark Lundy’s polo shirt, which the Crown said was from Christine Lundy, was controversial and there was reason to doubt its accuracy.

http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/223973/lundy-keen-to-get-bail-hearing-as-soon-as-possible
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February 8, 2015 9:48pm
UglyTruth

Another reason to keep Islam out of NZ – many Muslims would stop us from owning dogs.

Keeping a dog isn’t prohibited in Islam.

O Prophet, why do you prohibit [yourself from] what Allah has made lawful for you, seeking the approval of your wives? And Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.
Surah 66:1
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February 8, 2015 9:58pm
Michael

Rowan,
For your information the Court of Appeal said that the Crown’s thesis that David Bain was wearing those glasses when engaged in a struggle with Stephen , before shooting him, is certainly a tenable one on the evidence. They also said that in the absence of any other explanation for the lens being found in Stephen’s room where he was killed the Crown’s thesis is a strong one.
And there is no other explanation, unless of course ,Rowan, you believe that the lens was planted.
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February 8, 2015 10:00pm
Kanz

Michael (3,869 comments) says:
February 8th, 2015 at 10:00 pm

Wasn’t that the COA judgement that the PC called the “gross miscarriage of justice”?
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February 8, 2015 10:03pm
Michael

Re Lundy.
No doubt the defence will come up with a number of experts who will say that “brain tissue” found on Mark Lundy’s shirt wasn’t brain tissue at all, and may have even come from a goat or a donkey. The question is will the jury believe them? The Bain jury probably would, so who knows?
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February 8, 2015 10:06pm
cricko

So much fun today.

Pity it wasn’t a bit more challenging to deal with the likes of UglyTruth, Nostalgia or Rowan but
hey, you can only work with what youve got

G’nite all, and good luck to your families.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcnpavYFFew
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February 8, 2015 10:06pm
Michael

The Privy Council did not say the Court of Appeal judgement was “a gross miscarriage of justice”.
More bulls..t from a David Bain supporter and Karam bootlicker.
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February 8, 2015 10:08pm
cha

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9y6Tf6VLuBQ
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February 8, 2015 10:11pm
William of Ockham

UglyTruth. I agree with you that the brain tissue evidence does appear to have problems.

But the fact is Lundy had plenty of time to drive up and down because the Lundys were killed much later than the pathologist estimated from the stomach contents. Stop clinging to false information.
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February 8, 2015 10:13pm
Rowan

Will Aunt Fanny aka the serial bullcrapper, ever tell anything truthful here? Tonight’s efforts are just downright lies. I suggest she actually reads the PC decision then she might know what it says!
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February 8, 2015 10:14pm
fylde

This case is old and new to myself and many other NZers. Should be an interesting one.
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February 8, 2015 10:15pm
Rowan

From paragraph 168 of the third court of appeals decision on the Bain case, more proof that “Michael” is just lying!

“The glasses and lens issue has not featured significantly in our analysis of the strength of the case against David. It does not in any way tend to exculpate David”.
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February 8, 2015 10:21pm
Kanz

This from the PC ruling. It was not the original trial, but the COA that caused the miscarriage. No wonder Michael wants to rely on what the COA said. It was shit.

103. A substantial miscarriage of justice will actually occur if fresh, admissible and apparently credible evidence is admitted which the jury convicting a defendant had no opportunity to consider but which might have led it, acting reasonably, to reach a different verdict if it had had the opportunity to consider it. Such a miscarriage involves no reflection on the trial judge, and in the present case David’s counsel expressly disavowed any criticism of Williamson J. It is, however, the duty of the criminal appellate courts to seek to identify and rectify convictions which may be unjust. That result will occur where a defendant is convicted and further post-trial evidence raises a reasonable doubt whether he would or should have been convicted had that evidence been before the jury.

104. In the opinion of the Board the fresh evidence adduced in relation to the nine points summarised above, taken together, compels the conclusion that a substantial miscarriage of justice has actually occurred in this case. It is the effect of all the fresh evidence taken together, not the evidence on any single point, which compels that conclusion. But it is necessary to identify the source of the Board’s concern in relation to each point.
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February 8, 2015 10:35pm
Rowan

“But the fact is Lundy had plenty of time to drive up and down because the Lundys were killed much later than the pathologist estimated”

The proof of these “facts” is as usual non existent and this fool is just talking out of his arse.
Put up or shut up Dotcom of Ockham
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February 8, 2015 10:45pm
publicwatchdog

How on earth can Tony Abbott’s promise of a more ‘consultative’ Government under his leadership be treated with anything other than total disbelief?

Tony Abbott promised that the ‘spill motion’ on his leadership would take place on Tuesday 10 February 2015, then did another arbitrary ‘Captain’s pick’ – WITHOUT properly consulting all his MPs, and brought this pivotal vote forward to tomorrow, 9am Monday 9 February 2015.

How BRAINY was THAT?

You are facing a vote of confidence in your leadership because a number of your MPs are REALLY unhappy about your dictatorial style of work, and you pour petrol on the fire of their discontent, by making yet another arbitrary, seemingly DESPERATE ‘Captain’s Pick’ decision, which many see as disrespectful and self-serving?

It’s a secret ballot.

On what misguided basis can Tony Abbott possibly consider that his Ministers are ‘duty bound’ to vote for him, when he has/is treating their LNP internal democratic process with such disdain?

In my view, this Aussie ‘rooster’ Tony Abbott has just set the process in place for the political wringing of his own scrawny neck, and his transformation tomorrow into yet another political ‘feather duster’.

We shall see ….

Penny Bright

http://www.pennybright4mayor.org.nz
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February 8, 2015 11:45pm
publicwatchdog

Why should Tony Abbott expect his Ministers to ‘act honourably’ and support him by voting against the upcoming ‘spill motion’, when he arguably hasn’t acted honourably and supported the LNP democratic process, by bringing forward the ‘party room’ vote, in another unpopular ‘Captain’s Pick’ decision which reeks of politically disrespectful, self-serving desperation?

Penny Bright
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February 9, 2015 6:47am
fylde

Penny – at tines you are quite articulate and funny – a lot of the time though this is far from the case. Maybe you could use these skills productively so you can contribute to society more eg pay your rates
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February 9, 2015 6:53am
UglyTruth

But the fact is Lundy had plenty of time to drive up and down because the Lundys were killed much later than the pathologist estimated from the stomach contents. Stop clinging to false information.

You don’t know what you are taking about. What false information do you think I’m clinging to?

Witnesses were clear and unequivocal that lights were on in the Lundy home at 11pm that night, whereas no lights were on in the morning.
http://www.lundytruth.co.nz/north—south.html

Police say the computer at the Lundy home was switched off just before 11pm, and just before 11:30 Mark Lundy arranged a meeting with an escort.
http://tvnz.co.nz/content/48763/2539670/article.html
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February 9, 2015 7:24am
Manolo

Better late than never:
The Prince of Wales has described the extent to which young people are becoming radicalised as “alarming” and one of the “greatest worries”. In an interview with Radio 2’s The Sunday Hour, Prince Charles spoke of his hopes to “build bridges” between different faiths.

He also spoke of his “deep concern” for the suffering of Christian churches in the Middle East.
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February 9, 2015 7:56am

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