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February 6, 2015 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 6 February 2015

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General Debate

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UglyTruth

ISIL has claimed responsibility, haven’t they?

I don’t know. You’d expect that they would make it known if someone else did it in their name, though.

Jordan clearly accepts that it is fact, or don’t you think that they hanged their death row prisoners?

Jordan was involved in training ISIS back in the day. If those really were Jordanian uniforms in the immolation video then the simplest explanation is that the Jordanians cut some kind of deal with ISIS, which means it’s pretty unlikely that the prisoners were actually killed.
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February 6, 2015 7:22pm
Reid

I was right. Once again you havent got the nuts to give an answer…Who do you think you are, telling me what questions I should be asking??

There’s no point in answering the wrong question G. I explained in detail why that is in my 6.31. If you’ve got an issue with my explanation, then logically find flaws in what I said.

It’s not rocket science.

Unless you’re all emotional about it.

Which you appear to be.

And I don’t react to hysteria, or dummies.

Pick one.

That should do it.

You’re a good mum Lucia.
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February 6, 2015 7:25pm
UglyTruth

Well, actually, it is important in this context, because that was what the bloody question was, ie, What do you, as individuals believe?

Sorry, but I don’t owe anyone an answer about what my beliefs are.

Opinion is only relevant for expert witnesses, and I don’t claim to be an expert in anything.
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February 6, 2015 7:25pm
dad4justice

” I don’t claim to be an expert in anything.”

I can assure you that you’re an ” expert” in talking bullshit.
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February 6, 2015 7:28pm
Reid

Let the hysteria begin.

How dare anyone challenge the “accepted” version?

That’s unacceptable.

Maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.

Maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.

Maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.

And if you’re not precisely that, why are you all getting so hysterical about it?
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February 6, 2015 7:30pm
Shawn Herles

Yes I’ve always known the middle class educated can’t wait to go off and fight the infidels, leaving their families and their lives behind. After all, who wouldn’t prefer a nice firefight compared to the telly and a nice hot dinner and their laughing, happy children. Happens all the time, in raghead land, apparently.

Yes Reid, it does. These are Muslims we are talking about, radicalized fanatical ones. So to them a telly and a hot dinner are not high on their list of concerns.

You are also forgetting that some of the leadership of ISIS were formerly Baathist soldiers and Republican Guards in Saddam’s regime, and would have extensive knowledge of military tactics and the use of propaganda. Add to that a cadre of trained terrorists from other groups, and your question about tactics and training is easily answered.

There is nothing in any of your questions that would lead me to assume conspiracy, and I think your beliefs do come into this, because your are already pre-disposed to think the worse about the US and Israel.

I don’t think it’s honest to claim that your personal ideology does not color how you view global events.
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February 6, 2015 7:30pm
Rachael Membery

What is with the ‘immolation’ video, I think that obfuscates the fact of murder to people who will not look the word up or will just skim read and not understand what is being referred to. I am a great fan of utilizing the English language but this was murder by setting a man on fire. Not some ‘concept’. imo.
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February 6, 2015 7:32pm
Grant

Whatever Reid , whatever. You’re a fake.

But this was good from you UT, :”Opinion is only relevant for expert witnesses, and I don’t claim to be an expert in anything.”

If that last part’s true, why do we hear so much from you?
Just wondering.

A beer beckons
G
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February 6, 2015 7:32pm
Reid

These are Muslims we are talking about

I thought we are talking about human beings.

They’re the same the world over.

As Jesus taught us.

You are also forgetting that some of the leadership of ISIS were formerly …

I think what you’re forgetting Shawn is that ISIS somehow miraculously appeared just as it became apparent that Syria wasn’t going to collapse like Libya did. And what does that tell you about who might be behind it.
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February 6, 2015 7:33pm
OneTrack

Ugly Truth – “Sorry, but I don’t owe anyone an answer about what my beliefs are”

In that case, do you have an opinion about Muslim taqiyya and when it might be used?
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February 6, 2015 7:33pm
Shawn Herles

How dare anyone challenge the “accepted” version?

You are completely free to do that Reid. The question is whether or not your challenges are reasonable, and whether or not they can be explained. In this case, I think they can be, easily, without resorting to conspiracy.

Challenging the status quo is fine, but there is a catch. What happens if you become so caught up in doing so, that you miss the fact that the status quo, the “accepted” version, may sometimes be right?
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February 6, 2015 7:39pm
renderer

Ugly Truth I reckon you wold find a bloody conspiracy in buying a loaf of bread at the local dairy
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February 6, 2015 7:39pm
Viking2

Two fleas are on a fanny.
One is a junkie and one is a pervert.
How can you tell them apart??

The junkies sniffing the crack and the pervert is hiding in the bush.
8)
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February 6, 2015 7:40pm
Shawn Herles

These are Muslims we are talking about

I thought we are talking about human beings.

They’re the same the world over.

Not in the way you are saying. For example, as a Christian you obviously get up on a Sunday morning and go to church. Now, to an agnostic who likes sleeping in on a Sunday, your actions may seem strange. To you they are not, because of your faith, which is your motivation to get out of bed on Sunday.

Now, militant Muslims are of course human beings, but their motivations are not the same as Joe Blogs who just wants a stack of pancakes and a v8. Their motivations, and the ideology behind them, are not the same as the average person, even the average Muslim.
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February 6, 2015 7:46pm
Reid

Challenging the status quo is fine, but there is a catch. What happens if you become so caught up in doing so, that you miss the fact that the status quo, the “accepted” version, may sometimes be right?

No chance of that Shawn.

As I’ve repeatedly explained, when I opened my mind to the material I look at, I still keep the mind I had before, which is your mind, so I’m perfectly able to judge truth when I see it, whichever side it’s on.
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February 6, 2015 7:46pm
nasska

https://www.dropbox.com/s/nq71qghk6ribhs7/Muslim%2037.jpg?dl=0
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February 6, 2015 7:50pm
Grant

“As I’ve repeatedly explained, when I opened my mind to the material I look at, I still keep the mind I had before, which is your mind, so I’m perfectly able to judge truth when I see it, whichever side it’s on.”
…….but I’m still too gutless to tell anyone what I actually believe.

And you call me arrogant?? Oh the ironing.
G
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February 6, 2015 8:00pm
UglyTruth

What is with the ‘immolation’ video, I think that obfuscates the fact of murder to people who will not look the word up or will just skim read and not understand what is being referred to.

Fair enough. I try to be unambiguous, it makes it harder for the critics to get a point in.
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February 6, 2015 8:00pm
Griff

UPDATE 3-Australian PM to face leadership vote after party-room revolt

Fri Feb 6, 2015 1:13am EST

* Australian PM Abbott faces leadership vote on Tuesday

* No official challenger announced yet

* Widespread criticism of Abbott’s leadership

* Former party leader Turnbull seen most likely to challenge (Recasts throughout with PM Abbott comments, Bishop statement, economist’s comment)

By Wayne Cole and Lincoln Feast

SYDNEY, Feb 6 (Reuters) – Embattled Australian Prime Minister Tony Abbott said he will fight a challenge to his leadership at a party-room meeting next week after disgruntled government lawmakers on Friday sought to oust him following weeks of divisive speculation.

A member of Abbott’s ruling conservative Liberal Party, Western Australian MP Luke Simpkins, sent an email to colleagues to announce he will seek a vote on the party’s top two positions at a scheduled party meeting in Canberra on Tuesday.
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February 6, 2015 8:04pm
Reid

…….but I’m still too gutless to tell anyone what I actually believe.

And you call me arrogant?? Oh the ironing.

G until you critique logically and establish irrefutable arguments against my 6.31 I can’t possibly respond to your demand for an answer.

That’s not arrogance, that’s simple basic 101 logic.

Isn’t it.

This may help.

WHAT ABOUT THAT DON’T YOU UNDERSTAND?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Sorry if that appears arrogant to you, but it is what it is G, and I’m afraid the laws of logic agree. I realise you don’t like it, but there we are.

Take care, and have a nice Waitangi evening.
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February 6, 2015 8:08pm
Grant

I’m having a great Waitangi evening thanks Reid.
It was looking a little mundane but then you started providing the entertainment, and so I’m having a great old chuckle at your haughty self importance. Please keep it up.
G
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February 6, 2015 8:16pm
Reid

Hows the argument against my 6.31 going G?

Not well?

Awwwwwwwwwww.
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February 6, 2015 8:18pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Another earthquake in Gizzy…. 4th today.
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February 6, 2015 8:18pm
UglyTruth

In that case, do you have an opinion about Muslim taqiyya and when it might be used?

Two instances are described in the Quran. The first is when a Muslim is forced to renounce his belief, the consequence being that he is not guilty of apostasy.

They only invent falsehood who do not believe in the verses of Allah , and it is those who are the liars.
Whoever disbelieves in Allah after his belief… except for one who is forced [to renounce his religion] while his heart is secure in faith. But those who [willingly] open their breasts to disbelief, upon them is wrath from Allah , and for them is a great punishment;
Surah 16:105-106

The second example from the Quran is when Muslims make alliances with non-believers as a precaution:

Let not believers take disbelievers as allies rather than believers. And whoever [of you] does that has nothing with Allah , except when taking precaution against them in prudence. And Allah warns you of Himself, and to Allah is the [final] destination.
Surah 3:28

The second example doesn’t condone lying, and the Quran makes it clear that Muslims are expected to keep their promises.
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February 6, 2015 8:29pm
Reid

militant Muslims are of course human beings, but their motivations are not the same

How can that possibly be?

Even Nazis had families and children.

Why are militant Muslims apparently, sub-human?
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February 6, 2015 8:30pm
chiz

Judging from the picture, I’d say he’s wrong :

A Buddhist academic has said a 200-year-old mummified monk discovered in Mongolia may not be dead but in a “very deep meditation”.
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February 6, 2015 8:32pm
Grant

Yes or no Reid. Be brave now….
G
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February 6, 2015 8:39pm
Griff

Well, he’s…he’s, ah…probably pining for the fjords.
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February 6, 2015 8:40pm
Johnboy

Redbaiter looked a lot like that last time I spotted him chiz! 🙂
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February 6, 2015 8:42pm
fylde

Red is usually spotted with his mates from the greens
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February 6, 2015 8:43pm
Johnboy

“Why are militant Muslims apparently, sub-human?”

They enjoy living in a desert.

They don’t enjoy drinking Speights

They think having four wives is a good idea

They think fast camels are a cool set of wheels

They believe that being blown up makes you live forever

They think that not having toilet paper and a flush loo is OK

They really believe that you can avoid food poisoning by segregating your left and right hand

They never allowed for lefthanders when they eat from the communal dish

They believe Allah will protect them from the Jews

Anything else you can add really……
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February 6, 2015 8:53pm
fylde

The Friday / Saturday night effect on posts is starting early
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February 6, 2015 8:57pm
stephieboy

UglyTruth (4,874 comments) says:
February 6th, 2015 at 7:22 pm

Jordanians training ISIS. Not true actually. Certainly along with the US training moderate Syrian Rebel factions which of course did not stop many of them Sunnis splitting off and joining ISIS.

And i would say among them some compelled to join least ….. !There recruitment methods can often be pretty brutal !

Reid, I agree Muslims are not sub human including ISIS. But like the Nazis the ISSIS force us to think and ponder about the depth and depravity human nature can plummet to.

Yes the Nazis had families and children but that did not stop some of them murdering Jewish children, often callously and brutally . The SS did this one day in the Lodz ghetto where they rounded up all the children they could locate and deporting them in trucks for gassing at Chelmo.. Not to mention executing them with their parents in open pits by the SS Einsatzgruppen in occupied Russia .
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February 6, 2015 9:11pm
UglyTruth

Jordanians training ISIS. Not true actually.

JERUSALEM – Members of the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant, or ISIS, were trained in 2012 by U.S. instructors working at a secret base in Jordan, according to informed Jordanian officials.

The officials said dozens of ISIS members were trained at the time as part of covert aid to the insurgents targeting the regime of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad in Syria. The officials said the training was not meant to be used for any future campaign in Iraq.

The Jordanian officials said all ISIS members who received U.S. training to fight in Syria were first vetted for any links to extremist groups like al-Qaida.

In February 2012, WND was first to report the U.S., Turkey and Jordan were running a training base for the Syrian rebels in the Jordanian town of Safawi in the country’s northern desert region.

That report has since been corroborated by numerous other media accounts.

Last March, the German weekly Der Spiegel reported Americans were training Syrian rebels in Jordan.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/u-s-trained-isis-at-secret-jordan-base
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February 6, 2015 9:18pm
jaba

Casey Jale .. I give a shit when our countries mps are fiddling kids “me”? Your nothing but a scumbag if you think our countries leaders can act however they want and its no big deal if the people voting for him know or not? Your attitude is the reason judges give pedophiles home detention.

Your comment is supporting pedophilia? Your a scumbag. Lowest of the low
Execute all pedophiles! They cant be changed!

Bring back the rope!!!

holy hell .. this is on NewstalkZB FB page .. this can NOT be accepted when posted about a pending court case , Cam got charged for less.
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February 6, 2015 9:23pm
EAD

With Stephie, Grant, Shawn & Lucia on the prowl, what will they say about this?

http://www.globalresearch.ca/ukrainian-government-no-russian-troops-are-fighting-against-us-sanctions-against-russia-based-on-falshoods/5428523

“Ukraine’s top general is contradicting allegations by the Obama Administration and by his own Ukrainian Government, by saying that no Russian troops are fighting against the Ukrainian Government’s forces in the formerly Ukrainian, but now separatist, area, where the Ukrainian civil war is being waged”
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February 6, 2015 9:28pm
renderer

The god botherers on GD taking the moral high ground would make you puke
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February 6, 2015 9:29pm
fylde

Speed, skill or Or are we really just reading a whole lot of swag
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February 6, 2015 9:30pm
fylde

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/analysis-and-features/were-the-guinness-four-victims-of-antisemitism-10022080.html

This is the sort of persecution people suffer when people like Kea are allowed to get a position of power.
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February 6, 2015 9:33pm
fylde

Hopefully the only power Kea has is the ability to write terrible posts but mask them with some very trendy grammar. Now matter how the comments are dressed up they are victimise who groups based on their race or religion with no real justification.
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February 6, 2015 9:36pm
Reid

With Stephie, Grant, Shawn & Lucia on the prowl, what will they say about this?

Or this? This is a young Ukrainian civilian taking up arms against the MSM-promoted Ukrainian army who is apparently beset by evil Russian forces, according to the Western MSM. How do they explain that?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7-W02CNXPM
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February 6, 2015 9:36pm
Griff

Did you know that kea is part Syrian ?
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February 6, 2015 9:37pm
Shawn Herles

With Stephie, Grant, Shawn & Lucia on the prowl, what will they say about this?

It’s from global research.

Despite presenting itself as a source of scholarly analysis, Globalresearch mostly consists of polemics many of which accept (and use) conspiracy theories, pseudoscience and propaganda. The prevalent conspiracist strand relates to global power-elites (primarily governments and corporations) and their New World Order.[2] Specific featured conspiracy theories include those addressing 9/11,[3] vaccines,[4] genetic modification,[5] Zionism,[6][7] HAARP,[8] global warming,[9][10] Bosnian genocide denialism[11] chemtrails,[12] and David Kelly.[13]

Globalresearch contributors are happy to source information from anyone who seems vaguely aligned with their ideology; during the 2011 Libyan civil war the site was an apologist for Muammar al-Gaddafi,[14] reproducing his propaganda and painting him as a paragon of a modern leader. In the 2014 Ukrainian crisis the site is taking the standard “anti-globalisation” stance against the Western side and falling into the ranks of imperial Russian propaganda instead.

Globalresearch also has published numerous articles written by contributors to New Eastern Outlook, a Moscow-based Russian Government propaganda site. It has published the same articles on the same day as Oriental Review, a Moscow-based site that is also almost certainly a Russian Government site.

It’s no surprise then that the site has long become a magnet for radicals, fringe figures and whacko elements from the left in general.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Globalresearch.ca

Note the words in bold.
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February 6, 2015 9:47pm
stephieboy

Ugly Truth,
you must know by now that I’m highly skeptical about Global Research especially given also its active collaboration with Kremlin controlled media like Russia Today and Sputnik .

Also given the wild and speculaitve and inaccurate conspiracy theories about e.g Flight 370 and 17,

http://www.globalresearch.ca/disappearance-of-malaysian-airlines-flight-mh-370-the-trillion-question-to-the-u-s-and-its-intelligence-services/5375780

Including the following bunk from the two eyewitness es who allegedly saw a military jet with MH 17 at 33, 000 ft . ( More in my post at 6.24pm ).

Also the myth/lie that Kiev have not handed over their ATC recordings when the Dutch Safety Board stated they in fact have received them.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-downing-of-malaysia-flight-17-sinister-pretext-for-war-with-russia/5399625

Therefore I believe I have every right to be skeptical about the claims by GR about that alleged secret Jordanian base until it can be independently verified . But not by GR , RT or Infowars or New Eastern Outlook etc .
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February 6, 2015 9:51pm
EAD

Shawn Herles,

you dismiss an entire media network, with global reach and incredibly logical, rational and articulate journalists who regularly provide lectures and seminars to millions, by using “rational wiki” – a website run by a guy in his Mum’s basement?

Metapedia IMHO is a far better Wiki but then again I don’t judge stories by their source but by their merits (Yes Zerohedge even publish the odd article that makes me scratch my head!)

http://en.metapedia.org/wiki/Global_Research

“The Centre for Research on Globalization (CRG) is an independent research and media organization based in Montreal. The CRG is a registered non-profit organization in the province of Quebec, Canada.

In addition to the Global Research websites, the Centre is involved in book publishing, support to humanitarian projects as well as educational outreach activities including the organization of public conferences and lectures. The Centre also acts as a think tank on crucial economic and geopolitical issues.

The Global Research website at http://www.globalresearch.ca publishes news articles, commentary, background research and analysis on a broad range of issues, focussing on social, economic, strategic and environmental processes.

They have an extensive archive of news articles, in-depth reports and analysis on issues which are barely covered by the mainstream media which in an era of media disinformation, has been vital in enabling the public to hear the “unspoken truth”. “
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February 6, 2015 9:57pm
Reid

Note the words in bold.

Case closed then?

If you’re a moron like stephie.

I thought you were more sophisticated Shawn,
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February 6, 2015 9:59pm
stephieboy

EAD, no mention of their active collaboration and active partnership with the Kremlins RT, New Eastern Outlook including a specialist interest in promoting idiotic Conspiracy theories many of which you Reid and UT subscribe to.

A bland, glib and generalised mission statement .
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February 6, 2015 10:01pm
Shawn Herles

http://en.metapedia.org/wiki/Global_Research

EAD, Metapedia is a neo-Nazi web site.

Metapedia is a multilingual, far-right electronic encyclopedia which states that it focuses on culture, art, science, philosophy and politics. It contains white nationalist, white supremacist, Neo-Nazi,[2] and far-right points of view.

Topics covered include European history, Norse mythology, and white nationalist music.[12] The Register states that “a good percentage of Metapedia’s content seems to be dedicated to Woden, the White Order of Thule, runes, and other subject matter which would undoubtedly have found favour with Aryan hocus-pocus aficionado Heinrich Himmler.”[3] Crítica de la Argentina says it has glowing descriptions of Adolf Hitler and other Nazi figures.[13] Daniel Goldhagen describes it as seeking “to create (currently in 18 languages) an anti-Semitic informational universe.”[14]

According to the North Rhine-Westphalian Office for the Protection of the Constitution, Metapedia’s articles are characterized by historical revisionism and lauding Nazi Germany.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metapedia

Here is what it says about Hitler:

He gained power during Germany’s period of crisis after World War I. Hitler combined his in-depth political and philosophical insights with his charismatic oratory skills to emphasize the dangers the nation faced from Allied oppression, International Jewry and Communism. After restructuring the economy and rearming the military, he was given emergency powers to lead the nation.
Hitler’s Germany was defeated in WWII by forces outside of Europe: namely the military might of the United States and the Red Army of the Soviet Union which contained non-European nationalities, many from within Asia. In the final days of the war Hitler and his new wife, Eva Braun, committed suicide in his underground bunker in Berlin, as the war was lost.

Adolf Hitler remains one of the preeminent individuals in human history. In his personal life Hitler was a vegetarian, supported animal welfare, sympathized with the poor, was a fine artist and enjoyed classical music.

Hitler continues to be a controversial figure, adored and hated. In the later literature, despite the massive Jewish orchestrated hate campaign, some have referred to Hitler’s legacy in neutral or favourable terms.
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February 6, 2015 10:05pm
Shawn Herles

I thought you were more sophisticated Shawn,

I’m sophisticated enough not to swallow Kremlin propaganda, and sophisticated enough, unlike EAD, not to quote from a Neo_Nazi we site and expect to be taken seriously.
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February 6, 2015 10:06pm
fylde

Shawn heroes – thx for sharing this. Good to reveal the real level of indecency the likes of EAD and Kea.
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February 6, 2015 10:10pm
Reid

Why do you assess veracity based on the site and not on the data in the given article?

If you do that consistently, this must limit your worldview considerably, and is frankly illogical, given you don’t know what site is going to publish which data.

Surely you don’t hallucinate you’re the only human being on the planet who knows for sure without doubt and without error exactly and precisely 100% of the time which site is reliable and which isn’t? And if so, how do you judge? What’s your criteria? It equates with your own worldview? So how on Earth do you ever learn anything new?
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February 6, 2015 10:12pm
fylde

Glad we life in a democracy where even the obscene views of the likes of Kea and EAD can be expressed but that not mean we should not reveal their underlying evil
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February 6, 2015 10:12pm
Shawn Herles

EAD claims to be a libertarian and and advocate of liberty. NO true libertarian would quote from Metapedia. It does not even attempt to hide it’s glorification of the Nazis, it’s Holocaust denial, and it’s White Supremacist ideology.
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February 6, 2015 10:14pm
Shawn Herles

Why do you assess veracity based on the site and not on the data in the given article.

Because the two are linked. The veracity of an article is directly related to the veracity of the source. Metapedia is a Neo-Nazi web site. That is not an opinion, but a fact, easily discerned by just reading a couple of articles. On that basis alone I have rational reasons for discounting it.

If you do that consistently, this must limit your worldview considerably

Not at all. It just weeds out the dross that is not worth my time.

Surely you don’t hallucinate you’re the only human being on the planet who knows which site is reliable and which isn’t?

Anyone can do it. Just find out who a web site is being run by. If it’s the Kremlin, or a Neo-Nazi group, then sheer common sense is all that is needed to dismiss it.
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February 6, 2015 10:19pm
stephieboy

Reid, veracity of the given data and not the site ?

Well GR has made claims with ” data” about two eyewitness who claim they saw a Ukraine military jet with M H 17 at 33,000 ft on a cloudy day ?

Then the this “data” about Kiev not handing over their ATC tapes when the Dutch Safety Board say in fact they received them.?

” Data ” about a nefarious and underhand conspiracy Flight MH 370 by Israel and the US ? etc, etc, etc
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February 6, 2015 10:20pm
Reid

Because the two are linked.

No they’re not.

That’s ~~like~~ exactly the same as saying the enjoyment of a movie depends on what theatre it’s played at, or the value of a book depends on who publishes it.

Both clearly bullshit.
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February 6, 2015 10:21pm
EAD

Shawn,

I feel sorry for you my friend. You are so deeply enmeshed in the matrix that you can’t see the wood for the trees. You simply shout at any thing you don’t like to hear that hasn’t been drummed into you by years of MSM media drivel;

I don’t think you will find me arguing Hitler was as pure as the driven snow but you never even stop to consider the circumstances on which Hitler rose to power. Who caused the Hyperinflation that destroyed the lives of most of Germany yet enriched a select few into extreme wealth? Who financed the Nazi economic miracle? Who benefitted financially from orchestrating WWII?

If you can step outside you indoctrinated mind, you will see the Nazis, amidst all their evil, actually had some incredible insights into human nature. Here is a quote from Hermann Goering on war that you would do well to heed as you cheer and spew forth the propaganda of whatever bloodbath the Satanist neo-cons in America are driving the world towards:

“Naturally the common people don’t want war: Neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, IT IS THE LEADERS of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is TELL THEM THEY ARE BEING ATTACKED, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. IT WORKS THE SAME IN ANY COUNTRY.”
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February 6, 2015 10:28pm
stephieboy

I can only conclude there is a real convergence between Conspiracy Theorist like Chris Bollyn, Jim Fetzer , Jeff Resne ,some who post here and Neo Nazism.

The above mentioned all 9/11 Truthers, Moon Hoaxers and Holocaust Deniers .

Reid, UT and EAD go and figure !

EAD, Goering ? Source and context of quote ?
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February 6, 2015 10:28pm
Shawn Herles

No they’re not.

That’s like saying the enjoyment of a movie depends on what theatre it’s played at, or the value of a book depends on who publishes it.

That is a false comparison. A theater is ideologically neutral. It just shows movies. Any movies.

Global Research and Metapedia are not ideologically neutral, they both have an ideological reason for doing what they do. Discerning the underlying ideology of a web site is essential in discerning the veracity of any article hosted by that web site.

For example, I know of two Neo-Nazi publishing houses. I don’t need to wade through the supposed “facts” in their books, because I already know their underlying ideology is wrong.
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February 6, 2015 10:28pm
Reid

What’s false?

A publisher is a publisher, a theatre is a theatre? The CONTENT of both is what counts. But you don’t look at the content, you look at the theatre, you look at the publisher.

That’s nuts, my brother. You need to change your approach.
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February 6, 2015 10:33pm
fylde

EAD – the fact you quote Goering a short time after humanity recognised the anniversary of the liberation of Auschwitz and called for us all to learn and prevent a repetition says it all
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February 6, 2015 10:33pm
Shawn Herles

If you can step outside you indoctrinated mind, you will see the Nazis, amidst all their evil, actually were very wise. Here is a quote from Hermann Goering on war that you would do well to heed as you cheer whatever bloodbath the Satanist neo-cons in America are driving the world towards

Given that one statement alone, you are not in a position to be talking about other people being “indoctrinated.”

Swallowing Nazi propaganda is not a sign of being outside the matrix, it is a sign that you are deeply enmeshed in it. It is not a sign of having an open mind, it is a sign of being dangerously gullible and easily led.

And EAD, if you want a real example of Satanic politics, you need look no further than the Nazi’s you happily quote.
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February 6, 2015 10:35pm
stephieboy

EAD, this is the real comment Goering made. it was at his Nuremberg trial,

“Of course the people don’t want war. But after all, it’s the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it’s always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it’s a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger.”

http://www.snopes.com/quotes/goering.asp
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February 6, 2015 10:39pm
fylde

EAD may want to wrist our minds but the sun will still rise in the Naki tomorrow and a pleasant walk along the New Plymouth walkway will help cleanse us all from the results of reading his or her comments
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February 6, 2015 10:39pm
Shawn Herles

A publisher is a publisher, a theatre is a theatre? The CONTENT of both is what counts. But you don’t look at the content, you look at the theatre, you look at the publisher.

I look at both if it is warranted, but again, it’s a false comparison. Movie theaters are ideologically neutral. The Kremlin, and Neo-Nazi web sites, are not.

Your refusal to acknowledge that profound difference is the fundamental flaw in your approach.

Metapedia and global research are not the same as a standard publishing house and even less a movie theater.

Read this carefully: THEY HAVE AN IDEOLOGICAL AXE TO GRIND.

You cannot discern anything if you refuse to look at the underlying ideology of your sources, and it’s not valid to expect others to ignore them.
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February 6, 2015 10:42pm
fylde

Twist not wrist – over and out for a great Waitangi Day – a day when we should all come together
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February 6, 2015 10:42pm
EAD

Interesting read on Pavlov’s dogs:

http://www.simplypsychology.org/pavlov.html

Pavlov (1902) started from the idea that there are some things that a dog does not need to learn. For example, dogs don’t learn to salivate whenever they see food. This reflex is ‘hard wired’ into the dog. In behaviorist terms, it is an unconditioned response (i.e. a stimulus-response connection that required no learning). In behaviorist terms, we write:

Unconditioned Stimulus (Food) > Unconditioned Response (Salivate)

Pavlov showed the existence of the unconditioned response by presenting a dog with a bowl of food and the measuring its salivary secretions

However, when Pavlov discovered that any object or event which the dogs learnt to ASSOCIATE with food would trigger the same response, he realized that he had made an important scientific discovery. Accordingly, he devoted the rest of his career to studying this type of learning.

Pavlov knew that somehow, the dogs in his lab had learned to associate food with his lab assistant. This must have been learned, because at one point the dogs did not do it, and there came a point where they started, so their behavior had changed. A change in behavior of this type must be the result of learning.

In his experiment, Pavlov used a bell as his neutral stimulus. Whenever he gave food to his dogs, he also rang a bell. After a number of repeats of this procedure, he tried the bell on its own. As you might expect, the bell on its own now caused an increase in salivation.

So the dog had learned an association between the bell and the food and a new behavior had been learnt. Because this response was learned (or conditioned), it is called a CONDITIONED RESPONSE.
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February 6, 2015 10:43pm
Shawn Herles

Pavlov’s dogs are a good example.

I say “Jews” and EAD barks.

That is certainly a conditioned response, self-created by swallowing craploads of conspiracy theories.
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February 6, 2015 10:47pm
Reid

Read this carefully: THEY HAVE AN IDEOLOGICAL AXE TO GRIND.

Yes.

Read this carefully too Shawn.

YOUR SOURCES ALSO HAVE AN IDEOLOGICAL AXE TO GRIND ONLY YOU DON’T SEE IT.

It’s not rocket science Shawn.

It’s why hundreds of thousands of people died in Iraq based on a WMD lie.

That’s a small example.
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February 6, 2015 10:54pm
stephieboy

Reid , irrespective of the rights and wrongs of the 2003 Iraq invasion hundreds and thousands of innocent civilians were not deliberately killed or died of other causes associated with the conflict.
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February 6, 2015 11:05pm
Reid

And you wonder why some of us call you stupidboy stephie.
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February 6, 2015 11:07pm
publicwatchdog

A few days ago I predicted that Tony Abbott would be gone within one month.

Revised prediction – Tony Abbott will not survive the ‘spill’ vote next Tuesday.

A week is a long time in politics…

Looks like there will be a LOT of plotting and scheming at 30,000 feet as the ‘numbers’ are stacked up.

The more media / public discussion / debate – the more likely, in my view, that the pressure will build to dump Tony Abbott.

Will both Julie Bishop and Malcolm Turnbull put their names forward – or just one – in order not to split the leadership vote?

Who will replace Tony Abbott?

What’s your view David Farrar?

Kind regards

Penny Bright
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February 6, 2015 11:09pm
stephieboy

Reid, you can abuse me as much as you like but that 1 million Iraqis were murdered or killed by the US 2003 -8 is myth !

https://www.iraqbodycount.org/analysis/reference/press-releases/12/
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February 6, 2015 11:19pm
Reid

I disagree stupidboy but since I didn’t want to distract from the point I was making to Shawn I decided to cite an indisputible figure of a mere six figures of human beings killed on a lie and since even that is extremely significant I’m wondering what the fuck is wrong with you disputing the exact precise number.

Seriously mate, what the fuck is wrong with you that you don’t get what a massive tragedy the whole Iraq bullshit was and what it represents.

Don’t you have one fucking clue at all in any way about humanity and what it stands for?

Do you think life is about picking at the edges like a yappy little puppy and pretending that the really big deal is whether it’s ten, a hundred or a million human lives?

Get yourself together you little shit and understand what matters and what doesn’t. For fuck’s sake.
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February 6, 2015 11:30pm
publicwatchdog

A current poll in the Sydney Morning Herald shows Malcolm Turnbull streets ahead as preferred Leader …..

Penny Bright
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February 6, 2015 11:31pm
stephieboy

Iraqi deaths from violence 2003–2011

Analysis and overview from Iraq Body Count (IBC),

https://www.iraqbodycount.org/analysis/numbers/2011

Tsk, tsk , tsk Reid . Visit your Doctor first think Monday morning !

“We need a few stupid and crazy people in this world. How else would we know what normal is!”
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February 6, 2015 11:34pm
publicwatchdog

The 2003 invasion of Iraq was unlawful.

Where is the outrage over the THOUSANDS of Iraqi civilian deaths caused by STATE terrorism?

Penny Bright
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February 6, 2015 11:36pm
stephieboy

Penny Bright its all about facts and accuracy . Not inflating numbers for propaganda or any other purposes.

Yes by all means be outraged by 200,000 deaths but that does not make them 1 million as you and Reid might like to believe
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February 6, 2015 11:44pm
Reid

Where is the outrage over the THOUSANDS of Iraqi civilian deaths caused by STATE terrorism?

That’s what we’ve just been talking about you dimbo.

Between you and stephie d’ya think you might be able to rub up enough to illuminate a 40 watt bulb?

No?

I didn’t think so either.

Case in point: I didn’t mention a million deaths above. Yet stephie hallucinates I did.

Cuckoo.
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February 6, 2015 11:44pm
fylde

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11397805

Interesting article. Not sure why most of the new immigrants go to Auckland. They would be useful in the Nakisha or similar places with a labour shortage.
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February 7, 2015 5:38am
fylde

Generally best if the government keeps out of people’s lives but maybe they could encourage immigrants to the regions or let them know it is not all about Akl. Setting up a Uni in the Naki and or Southland would help
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February 7, 2015 5:40am
IGM

public dog: I suppose you support gutless conscientious objectors that sat home while real men went and defended them during WWI and WWII? Many of these despicable mongrels being watersiders, who later went on to strike, after these “Men” came home, getting their farms and other businesses back into profitability. These union leeches decided they wanted a slice of the cake. The unionised left are real nice people, just the sort you support.
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February 7, 2015 7:42am

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