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February 22, 2015 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 22 February 2015

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General Debate

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Shawn Herles

“Ugly Truth, then we can safely conclude those “state actors” do not include Zionist or Jews of whatever shape or shade ??

Perhaps this time it was alien lizard people living underground in the hollow earth and flying around in a Nazi UFO piloted by JFK. 🙂
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February 22, 2015 6:03pm
Shawn Herles

“Where do others sit on the death penalty and (more importantly why)

In favor, but only in rare cases (serial killers, genocide, for example) and the burden of evidence should be very high.

I’m opposed to it being used for general murder cases, as there have been too many examples of people wrongfully convicted.
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February 22, 2015 6:06pm
Andrei

Nostradamus – If Fr Borrows wasn’t there how can he give such a detailed description of what occurred?

I’m against the Death Penalty but the laws of Indonesia are for the people of Indonesia to determine and if you are in Indonesia you are subject to those laws.

Having an Australian passport doesn’t confer special privileges that grant exemption from Indonesian law when in Indonesia anymore than an Indonesian passport would exempt its holder from Australian law in when in Australia
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February 22, 2015 6:06pm
Johnboy

I’m for the death penalty if it’s certain the perp is guilty…smoking gun etc.

Drug runners like this lot need exterminating as an example to any more that fancy a quick few Mill.
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February 22, 2015 6:07pm
cha

LOL

Conrad Hackett ‏@conradhackett

Lowest approval rating

GW Bush 22%

Nixon 24

Carter 28

HW Bush 29

Reagan 35

Clinton 38

Obama 41

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/02/16/presidential-job-approval-ratings-from-ike-to-obama/ …

https://twitter.com/conradhackett/status/569358092661432322
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February 22, 2015 6:08pm
Nostradamus

Andrei:

the laws of Indonesia are for the people of Indonesia to determine and if you are in Indonesia you are subject to those laws.

That pretty much sums up my current position.

There’s been another interesting dimension to this debate: some people have argued that the Australian Federal Police shouldn’t have tipped off the Indonesian authorities. Apparently, according to these people, what the AFP should have done is wait for the drugs to arrive in Australia and then carry out arrests. I don’t think that’s a sensible argument at all!
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February 22, 2015 6:12pm
Johnboy

“I don’t think that’s a sensible argument at all!”

Your obviously not a defence lawyer practicing in Australia then Nostradamus? 🙂
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February 22, 2015 6:17pm
Longknives

Any chance of an apology Weihana?

http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/not-homophobic-after-all-queer-group-claims-responsibility-gaytm-vandalism-6239445

Seems I was right about the ‘Homophobic’ attack on the ATM after all!
Probably the same bunch of misfits that Protested their own Hero Parade yesterday..
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February 22, 2015 6:18pm
UglyTruth

Not even remotely. Your quoting from a conspiracy web site with a fondness for spewing Kremlin and Iranian propaganda.

Yes, got it. Your first trick is to roll out the ad homs.

Neither you nor Reid can provide any evidence from any credible source.

Denial, assumption of ownership of evidence. Your opinion on who is an expert is all that counts, right?

The technical term for this is lying.

Like when you were talking about a non-existent argument against the facts of the WTC demolition energy?
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February 22, 2015 6:20pm
Nostradamus

Johnboy:

We should probably ask FE Smith but, as I understand it, defence lawyers run a global practice these days!

Take Julian McMahon for instance – he’s the Australian lawyer for Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran.
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February 22, 2015 6:21pm
Shawn Herles

“Any chance of an apology Weihana?”

I wouldn’t hold your breath.
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February 22, 2015 6:21pm
Longknives

Wonder if the Herald will publish a retraction? Following this guy’s hysterical rant…

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/news/article.cfm?c_id=6&objectid=11405088
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February 22, 2015 6:22pm
nasska

Never mind Ugly Truth……help is at hand. 🙂

http://depend.com.au/feel-test
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February 22, 2015 6:24pm
Andrei

There’s been another interesting dimension to this debate: some people have argued that the Australian Federal Police shouldn’t have tipped off the Indonesian authorities. Apparently, according to these people, what the AFP should have done is wait for the drugs to arrive in Australia and then carry out arrests.

While the Australian Government may make noises in public asking for clemency and so forth under the covers they might well want a very public example made of these fellows and their folly.

Politics and diplomacy are full of double speak
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February 22, 2015 6:24pm
Shawn Herles

“Your first trick is to roll out the ad homs.”

No, my first “trick” is to point out that your sources lack any credibility.

“Your opinion on who is an expert is all that counts, right?”

No, the opinions of actual experts count. The opinions of Kremlin and Iranian propaganda outlets don’t.
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February 22, 2015 6:25pm
stephieboy

Ugly Truth,

Global Research,

“Now, almost exactly four years after 9/11, the facts appear to have been turned upside down. We now learn that Atta was also connected to a top secret operation of the Pentagon’s Special Operations Command (SOCOM) in the US. According to Army reserve Lieutenant-Colonel Anthony Shaffer, a top secret Pentagon project code-named Able Danger had identified Atta and three other 9/11 hijackers as members of an al-Qaida cell more than a year before the attacks.”

Source this please

Able Danger myths here though ,

http://www.911myths.com/index.php/Able_Danger
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February 22, 2015 6:26pm
UglyTruth

No, my first “trick” is to point out that your sources lack any credibility.

No, that was your second trick, assuming ownership of the evidence.

No, the opinions of actual experts count. The opinions of Kremlin and Iranian propaganda outlets don’t.

Like I said, you are assuming ownership of the evidence.

I see you are still keen to avoid mentioning your non-existent argument against the facts of the WTC demolition energy…

Perhaps this time it was alien lizard people

Like the ones that run your empire, you mean?

The say that the eyes are the window to the soul.

http://images.wisegeek.com/great-seal-of-the-us-one-dollar-bill.jpg
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February 22, 2015 6:31pm
Shawn Herles

“Source this please”

There aren’t any. Like all of these claims, the write does not source anything. There is not one independent reference to back the claims. For example this:

“According to Army reserve Lieutenant-Colonel Anthony Shaffer, a top secret Pentagon project code-named Able Danger had identified Atta and three other 9/11 hijackers as members of an al-Qaida cell more than a year before the attacks”

is trotted out with no verification. The statements is just made, with zero evidence, and we are supposed to just take this guys word for it. And again, given the source, there is no reason to do so.

Ugly does not understand the concept of evidence. So long as it is written on a conspiracy web site, he just assumes it must be true. The entire article has not one independent source, not one bit of verifiable evidence. To swallow it whole is not independent thinking as he and Reid claim, it’s just being gullible.
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February 22, 2015 6:34pm
Nostradamus

Hilarious quote from Cricinfo:

Baxter: “This is brilliant to watch/read. Who would have thought Ireland/WI in Hamilton and now Afghanistan/SL in unglamorous Dunedin would be the two most exciting/captivating games of the WC so far?”

Meanwhile, in Hamilton and unglamorous Dunedin, people march down the main street with pitchforks demanding that Baxter be brought to justice…
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February 22, 2015 6:34pm
Shawn Herles

“Like the ones that run your empire, you mean?”

So Ugly thinks the USA is run by alien lizard people. This almost manages to make scientologists look sane! 🙂
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February 22, 2015 6:36pm
Manolo

Just for stephieboy: http://nation.foxnews.com/2015/02/19/watch-giuliani-destroys-obama-epic-speech-netanyahu-man-who-fights-his-people-unlike-our
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February 22, 2015 6:38pm
SPC

Manolo, it’s actually a bit sad, has been politicians like RG hanging around to make speeches for money.
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February 22, 2015 6:47pm
SGA

Nostradamus at 5:56 pm

Where do you sit on the death penalty and (for the purposes of facilitating discussion) why?

In favour, but only for motorists who persist in driving slowly in rightmost motorway lanes. I genuinely believe that a few executions would largely eradicate this problem.
To be more serious, against – problem of executing the wrong person, I don’t think we could ever do it on the “cheap”, would be a continual source of political and social agitation, and, although I’d really, really want to kill anyone who hurt mine, it’s probably best not to have state ratified killings.
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February 22, 2015 6:47pm
UglyTruth

There aren’t any. Like all of these claims, the write does not source anything.

Except the author of the original report, of course.

We bring to the attention of our readers this important analysis of Dr. Daniele Ganser of the Zurich Polytechnic published by the International Relations and Security Network (ISN).

http://www.globalresearch.ca/able-danger-adds-twist-to-9-11
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February 22, 2015 6:49pm
stephieboy

Manolo, another chapter added to the Gospel according to Fox news ?
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February 22, 2015 6:49pm
Shawn Herles

“Globalresearch.ca (also under the domain name globalresearch.org) is the website of the Montreal-based non-profit The Centre for Research on Globalisation (CRG) founded by Michel Chossudovsky.

While many of Globalresearch’s articles discuss legitimate humanitarian or environmental concerns, the site has a strong undercurrent of reality warping throughout its pages, especially in relation to taking its news from sources such as Russia Today RT[2] and Press TV.[3] Its view of science, the economy and geopolitics seems to be broadly conspiracist.

Whenever someone makes a remarkable claim and cites Globalresearch, they are almost certainly wrong.”

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Globalresearch.ca
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February 22, 2015 6:51pm
UglyTruth

So Ugly thinks the USA is run by alien lizard people.

So you think your empire is the USA.

Still no comment on why the eagle on your dollar bill has a reptilian eye?
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February 22, 2015 6:52pm
stephieboy

Dr Danielle Gasnar and the redoubtable Paul Craig Roberts 9/11 false flag

http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2014/06/01/false-flag-attacks-guest-article-professor-daniele-ganser-university-basel/

I think I smell an anomaly and conspiracy monger !
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February 22, 2015 6:54pm
SPC

UT, why don’t you simply explain why you think that the eagle on the green dollar has a reptilian eye?
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February 22, 2015 6:57pm
Shawn Herles

“Except the author of the original report, of course.”

Which is not evidence. Nothing in that article is sourced, at all. Nothing. The claims are made without any links to verifiable evidence.

An article that makes claims but cannot provide a single piece of actual evidence to prove the claims is not legitimate evidence of anything except one man’s opinion. That is not “taking ownership of evidence” it is what any court would say as well. Unverifiable opinion is just opinion, not evidence.

Once again, you have failed, utterly and completely, to prove anything except your own bias and dishonesty.
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February 22, 2015 6:59pm
SGA

Speaking of conspiracy theories – I was blobbing on Friday watching “NCIS: New Orleans” (I know, I know, but sometimes you just want to put things in neutral). Anyhow, one interchange caught my divided attention –

Dr. Loretta Wade: Sebastian’s a connoisseur of conspiracy theories.
Sebastian Lund: Well, they’re not conspiracies, okay? They’re discernments.

Art imitating reality?
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February 22, 2015 7:01pm
nasska

https://www.dropbox.com/s/w8usr0cqdsnz599/UT%2022.jpg?dl=0
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February 22, 2015 7:05pm
Sir Leslie Bottocks

PCR posing with his cats a la Lusk with his puppies to fool us into thinking he’s not a sociopath. You can fool some of the people some of the time …blah blah blah… as Lincoln once said.
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February 22, 2015 7:05pm
rightoverlabour

The latest poll should have us all trembling in our boots “New poll points to big boost for Labour” screams the headlines. Buried a bit lower are the actual results. Yes Labour are up 6 points (at the expense of the Greens, New Zealand First and the Conservatives). And National, did they bleed points to the left? No, they also gained 4 points. And the only stat that counts, the Preferred Prime Minister ratings has Andrew Little at a whopping 12%. (double digits at least!) Sure Key dropped to 41%, a massive lead of 29%. He is at the same place poor old Cunliffe was), but he says he is encouraged. The undecided votes were at 10%. Fairfax are as bad as the Herald. And never mind Andrea Vance’s traitorous piece on troops and ISIS.
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February 22, 2015 7:06pm
Shawn Herles

“So you think your empire is the USA.”

I don’t have any “empire” at all.

“Still no comment on why the eagle on your dollar bill has a reptilian eye?”

Yes. You are very, very stupid. You claim a rock is a squirrel when it is clearly a rock, and you see reptile eyes where there obviously aren’t any. It’s all about as dumb as Reid claiming Mickey Mouse makes secret occult hand signs.

I mean this very sincerely. You have a mental health problem.
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February 22, 2015 7:06pm
UglyTruth

UT, why don’t you simply explain why you think that the eagle on the green dollar has a reptilian eye?

It’s a symbol which connects the Roman eagle to the serpent. Dragons are prominent as symbols of the London’s financial empire.
If you hook it into Judaic symbols then you’ve got the British lion and the US eagle’s wings of Daniel 7:4
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February 22, 2015 7:08pm
Viking2

I woke to go to the toilet in the middle of the night and noticed a Muslim sneaking through next door’s garden.
Suddenly my neighbour came from nowhere and smacked him over the head with a shovel killing him instantly.
He then began to dig a grave with the shovel.
Astonished, I got back into bed.
My wife said “Darling you’re shaking, what is it?”
“You’ll never believe what I’ve just seen!” I said,
“That tosser next door has still got my bloody shovel.”
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February 22, 2015 7:13pm
Viking2

I came home one night and proudly announced to me Dad that I had S E X for the first time.
He said “I hope you took precautions?”
“What do you mean?” I asked.
“Did you wear a condom?”
“Nah, but I kept me balaclava on.”
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February 22, 2015 7:14pm
UglyTruth

I don’t have any “empire” at all.

None that you will admit to, anyway.

You are very, very stupid.

I’m stupid because you are misrepresenting me? That’s novel.

You claim a rock is a squirrel when it is clearly a rock

No, rocks do not have eyes, legs, or fur.

and you see reptile eyes where there obviously aren’t any.

There’s clearly a slit pupil in the eagle’s eye.

http://images.wisegeek.com/great-seal-of-the-us-one-dollar-bill.jpg
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February 22, 2015 7:14pm
Viking2

As the coffin was being lowered into the ground at a Traffic Warden’s funeral, a voice from inside screams :
“I’m not dead, I’m not dead. Let me out!”
The Vicar smiles, leans forward, sucking air through his teeth and mutters,
“Too late, mate, the paperwork’s already done”
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February 22, 2015 7:14pm
Viking2

Angela Merkel arrives at Passport Control in Athens airport.
“Nationality?” asks the immigration officer.
“German,” she replies.
“Occupation?
“No, just here for a few days.”
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February 22, 2015 7:15pm
Viking2

A woman asked the pharmacist, “Do you sell Viagra?”

“Yes,” he answered.

She asked, “Does it work?”

“Yes,” he answered.

She said, “Can you get it over the counter?”
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February 22, 2015 7:16pm
Sir Leslie Bottocks

andrei, typical filthy ruskie sociopathic thinking. Abbott wants to save these guys because he’s a decent human being. Not something you’d know anything about I’d grant you.

The Indo’s are ungrateful ratbags. The Indo PM, whats-his-name, barely elected, is only doing this to placate the nutso Islamic parties. Most of those responsible for bali bombings have long since been let out early for good behaviour. I’d have thought kiwiblog rightards would be against nutso Islamists. Apparently not.
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February 22, 2015 7:16pm
slightlyrighty

So a poll that has National at 49%, 2% up on election night, is seen as a positive for Labour by the MSM?
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February 22, 2015 7:17pm
SPC

UT, how exactly do dragons connect to serpents when dragons do not exist? The same way talking serpents do not exist?

I do however get the connection between dragons and the mists of myth, such as the layers of the hidden behind which finance centres do what they do, and of course the way money is manufactured out of nothing that exists into something that be turned into debt and therefore profit.

Much the same way by which divine revelation creates God’s, religions and thrones.
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February 22, 2015 7:19pm
Gulag1917

10 Nefarious Conspiracies Proven True
http://listverse.com/2013/05/02/10-nefarious-conspiracies-proven-true/
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February 22, 2015 7:21pm
nasska

Sir Leslie Bottocks

I can’t speak for all of us kiwiblog rightards but I reckon that Indonesian justice on Indonesian soil is pretty much up to the Indonesians. What grinds my gears is when a bunch of rabid, half baked Allah botherers gunk up our countries & try to ram their primitive crap down our throats.

When in Rome & all that sort of thing.
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February 22, 2015 7:35pm
Sir Leslie Bottocks

I oppose injustice and brutality. national borders make no difference. But I see your approach is the nimby one. How typically gutless of you.
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February 22, 2015 7:49pm
UglyTruth

UT, how exactly do dragons connect to serpents when dragons do not exist? The same way talking serpents do not exist?

They exist as symbols, especially the serpent/dragon of the beast of the book of Revelation..

Thus saith YHWH, your redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; For your sake I have sent to Babylon, and have brought down all their fugitives and the Chaldeans, whose cry is in the ships.
Isa 43:14

The Hebrew word for fugitive is usually associated with the serpent/dragon.
Babylon associates with Rome via the Roman eagle on the US seal, and the serpent’s eye on the seal of course connects to the Judaic symbols.
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February 22, 2015 7:57pm
nasska

So the lone proponent of world government lowers his buckled visor, points his bent lance at the heart of injustice & charges the windmills of Jakarta.

Go Botty Boy. 🙂
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February 22, 2015 7:59pm
Yvette

Viking2 – hey, you missed the punchline –

She said, “Can you get it over the counter?”
“Yes,” he smiled “– if I take two.” 🙂
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February 22, 2015 8:02pm
Sir Leslie Bottocks

what are you blathering on about you feckless chinless wonder?
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February 22, 2015 8:31pm
kowtow

slightlyrightly

Watched that TV1 poll stuff. national had ‘climbed’ 4 % but wait for it, labour had “surged” 6%.

At TVNZ the difference between a climb and a surge is a measly 2%.
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February 22, 2015 8:37pm
Sponge

Who is the humourless prick that down voted Yvettes post of 8:02? Jesus wept there are some miserable arseholes around!
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February 22, 2015 8:42pm
stephieboy

Ugly Truth,

Washington , DC Street design conspiracy theory.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Washington,_D.C._street_design_conspiracy_theory

Hmmmm…… !
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February 22, 2015 8:45pm
kowtow

‘Who is the humourless prick that down voted Yvettes post of 8:02? Jesus wept there are some miserable arseholes around!”

Probably someone who can’t get it over the counter. Perhaps not a humourless prick, as you put it, but a limp dick?
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February 22, 2015 9:03pm
lolitasbrother

I have never read an entire general debate before. I was interested in the writing about the World Trade Centre 9/11 2001 .
All I know is that you could see in Video the main building fall in free fall, a few seconds straight down. This was not Allah, or aeroplanes, it must have been detonated with extremely powerful explosives. The steel in this buildings core was unreal. The buildings were blown up. Thanks for the light relief at the end of the dabate Viking
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February 22, 2015 9:21pm
Sponge

“it must have been detonated with extremely powerful explosives.”

Oh for Christs sake not another one. All I can say is do some research. Not just at conspiracy sites but general overall research from reputed sources.

Do you really think that not one single person who would have been involved in placing the explosives has spoken out? Not one person saw the explosives placed? It’s not like it it is a simple thing to demolish a building with explosives. Governments can’t manage the most simple functions but we are expected to believe that they can cover up these huge conspiracies? It just doesn’t bear any intelligent scrutiny.
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February 22, 2015 9:32pm
Weihana

Longknives (5,181 comments) says:
February 22nd, 2015 at 6:18 pm

Any chance of an apology Weihana?

http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/not-homophobic-after-all-queer-group-claims-responsibility-gaytm-vandalism-6239445

Seems I was right about the ‘Homophobic’ attack on the ATM after all!

No. 🙂

I never said who did or didn’t do it. I questioned your assumption based on no evidence and the apparent lack of any criticism of the vandalism itself as being a reflection on your attitudes. Being gay doesn’t give someone ownership of the ATM no matter what colours it is painted in and I stand by my observation that someone who switches banks because of marketing in support of the gay community is an idiot… and a bigot.

Probably the same bunch of misfits that Protested their own Hero Parade yesterday..

Maybe. Idiots.
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February 22, 2015 9:35pm
SPC

UT, have you ever wondered whether there is a surprising meaning to a point made in Genesis, when it says man has dominion over the earth and to name all the creatures of it. That talking serpents and dragons do not actually exist, and that when anyone names God this god is not a real one, but an invented creature by which men claim knowledge of divine revelation.

The end time conflict between this god and talking beasts is an imaginary one.

Any reality is in metaphor alone, because

1. we associate ruling empire with the alpha beast (because of the symbolism of the lion with being top of the food pyramid)
2. and then there is the ancient claim of royal descent from gods above and thus the winged bird as a symbol of authority to be the royal above the commoner.

Trying to then connect the symbolism’s used in the world and connect them to bible metaphor is just an attempt to maintain the relevance of religious prophecy to current events in the world. And is done by those who would use the god creature tradition for a political purpose.
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February 22, 2015 10:04pm
publicwatchdog

Here we go Kiwibloggers!

Opposition to the proposed Wellington ‘Supercity’ is growing ……

” Say No to Amalgamation – Keep Kapiti Ours!”

http://kapiticoastdistrict.co.nz/

An understanding of what is being proposed for us, and what happens from here, so you all have the opportunity to come to an informed decision.

The new council would consist of 21 councillors on the Greater Wellington Council, two would represent our region, Kāpiti. There would also be a Mayor directly elected by all voters throughout the region. This new Council would take all the main decisions for strategies in our region.

More localised decisions in Kāpiti would be made by a local board of nine members, (most probably muzzled )two each from Ōtaki, Waikanae and Paekakariki-Raumati and three from Paraparaumu.

Do we really want these changes? And the cost we will all inherit, was $184 million, now estimated to be $210 million and counting. Councils are already strapped for cash not to mention us. Who is going to pay for this very expensive experiment, yes you guessed right, you and I. And what does the government say, ‘Trust Us’.

The Kapiti Coast District Council says they don’t want to influence our thoughts because their soundings have indicated our community has been split 50/50……..Yeah Right!

What is important though is to put pen to paper and fill out a submission form. It involves answering only a few simple questions that will take all of about five minutes.

Also important, the Local Government Commission (lgc) wants to hear the views of the wider region and encourage people to participate. That means ratepayers, residents, community organisations, iwi and businesses, as well as the affected councils. “The public submission process is a valuable part of the Commission’s engagement with the region.”

If you are against amalgamation then we have made it even easier by completing the answers for you. All you have to do is write your name, address, contact phone number, which council ( in this case Kāpiti Coast District Council) is relevant to your home or business, and whether you wish to appear before the Commission at public hearings. (Don’t worry, you do not have to appear at these hearings, your submission will still be counted).

Remember, the closing date for submissions is 4pm on March 2nd 2015

________________________________________________________________________________________________

Penny Bright
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February 22, 2015 10:38pm
publicwatchdog

Ok Kiwiblogger! Another upcoming debate on the proposed Wellington ‘Supercity’!

Amalgamation – what’s in it for Otaki?

Public Meeting 6.30pm, Tuesday February 24, at Otaki Golf Club, Old Coach Rd, Otaki. All welcome.

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/AK1502/S00279/amalgamation-whats-in-it-for-otaki.htm

Friday, 13 February 2015, 11:40 am

Press Release: Otaki Promotions Group

Amalgamation – what’s in it for Otaki?

Otaki – a vibrant contributor to a big Wellington council or a forgotten outpost?

Fran Wilde and K (Guru) Gurunathan will discuss at a public meeting in Otaki on Tuesday, February 24, what Otaki could look forward to in a proposed amalgamation of Kapiti Coast with eight other councils in the Wellington region.

Fran is chair of the Greater Wellington Regional Council and a strong advocate of the Wellington region’s councils merging to form a large council. Guru, a Kapiti Coast District councillor, is skeptical of the merger.

Will Otaki, as the town farthest north in a proposed merger, be able to retain any kind of local governance? Will it benefit by being part of a large council that has the clout to advocate on its behalf to central government, or attract facilities that would never be possible as part of Kapiti alone?

Ian Carson, who is chair of the Otaki Promotions Group, which has organised the meeting, says the issue is important for Otaki.

“We have fantastic natural assets, a vibrant shopping district and events that attract international participants and visitors, such as the Otaki Kite Festival and Maoriland Film Festival,” he says. “We want to ensure we build on our attributes and get the best outcomes for our community.

“The amalgamation debate is important, and with submissions to the Local Government Commission on the current proposal closing on March 2, this meeting might be the last chance for people to make up their mind.”

• The meeting is 6.30pm, Tuesday February 24, at Otaki Golf Club, Old Coach Rd, Otaki. All welcome.
______________________________________________________________________________________________

See you there!

Penny (busy) Bright 🙂
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February 22, 2015 11:07pm
Inandout

Gulag1917: FBI poisoning alcohol? Maybe just like this untrue story-
http://www.snopes.com/food/tainted/cherries.asp

‘One false flag operation that’s long fired the imagination of conspiracy theorists never even took place. Operation Northwoods was a proposed plot by the Department of Defense to fabricate a pretext for an invasion of Cuba and overthrow of the Castro regime. Acts such as shooting down a passenger plane, sinking a US Navy ship or even attacks on Miami were suggested by the document, which was classified until 1997. The plan made it all the way to President Kennedy’s desk, who wisely vetoed it. But just the existence of such a plan is enough to convince some that the US government, no matter who is in charge, is capable of brazen deception and false flag techniques to justify anything it wants. And of course, the conspiracy theorists add, President Kennedy was assassinated less than a year after scuttling Northwoods.’

Source – Skeptoids
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February 22, 2015 11:13pm
Inandout

Public Dog: So who would be the Māyor?
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February 22, 2015 11:17pm
lolitasbrother

lolitasbrother [ 9:21]
I was interested in the writing about the World Trade Centre 9/11 2001 .
All I know is that you could see in Video the main building fall in free fall, a few seconds straight down. This was not Allah, or aeroplanes, it must have been detonated with extremely powerful explosives. The steel in this buildings core was unreal. The buildings were blown up.

Sponge [9.32]
“it must have been detonated with extremely powerful explosives.” Oh for Christs sake not another one. All I can say is do some research. Not just at conspiracy sites but general overall research from reputed sources.
Do you really think that not one single person who would have been involved in placing the explosives has spoken out? Not one person saw the explosives placed? It’s not like it it is a simple thing to demolish a building with explosives. Governments can’t manage the most simple functions but we are expected to believe that they can cover up these huge conspiracies? It just doesn’t bear any intelligent scrutiny.

Me again
Sponge, I do not come into the site to involve in a verbal brawl. I just maintain that the tower in the video was dropping free fall. That is really strange . Possibly a big jump for me to say that free fall = being blown up. But it is a possibility. I was also referring back to the entire thread here.
Not everyone can research everything , but you can believe what you see with your own eyes. Seeing actuality is good research Sponge
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February 23, 2015 3:32am
Manolo

An old crook tries to get a new face: http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/the-making-of-hillary-50-marketing-wizards-help-reimagine-clinton-brand/2015/02/21/bfb01120-b919-11e4-aa05-1ce812b3fdd2_story.html

As she readies her second presidential campaign, Clinton has recruited consumer marketing specialists onto her team of trusted political advisers. Their job is to help imagine Hillary 5.0 — the rebranding of a first lady turned senator turned failed presidential candidate turned secretary of state turned likely 2016 Democratic presidential nominee.
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February 23, 2015 6:23am
Manolo

A brave woman indeed:
http://news.yahoo.com/baghdads-first-female-mayor-set-reins-143942570.html;_ylt=AwrSyCNAAOpUhSoAB6rQtDMD
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February 23, 2015 7:05am
IGM

Has Peters repaid the $150,000 he defrauded taxpayers of? Maybe this could go towards Big Jerry’s costs!
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February 23, 2015 7:46am
Longknives

Weihana 9.35pm- “an idiot… and a bigot.”

So being absolutely 100% correct about the Gay Community defacing their own ATM and then blaming ‘Homophobia’ makes me an ‘idiot and a bigot’?

You just can’t win arguments with some people..
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February 23, 2015 7:50am
UglyTruth

One false flag operation that’s long fired the imagination of conspiracy theorists never even took place.

So what? It was posted as a conspiracy, i.e. a plan, rather than an actual false flag operation. Operation Northwoods, like Operation Gladio, are both actual historical conspiracies involving western actors. Although Operation Northwoods was nixed by JFK, Gladio was actually carried out, and according to Sibel Edmonds became the basis of the western sponsorship of Islamist proxy terrorists eg al Qaeda.
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February 23, 2015 9:46am
Shawn Herles

Operation Gladio was not a conspiracy. The reality is the Gladio was just part of the cold war stand off and the covert ops that both sides engaged in.

The claim from one of Ugly’s swiveled eyed loons that it had anything to do with Al-Qaeda is bogus.
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February 23, 2015 9:50am
UglyTruth

Not one person saw the explosives placed?

GW: You also stated there were many, many ‘engineers’ coming in and out of the tower. Did you see any of these folks yourself?

SF: Yes. By “engineers” I mean there were workmen on site, in overalls.

GW: Did these folks look “middle eastern”?

SF: No, not particularly, I mean I don’t recall registering that the
guys were of one racial group or another.

GW: Did you recognize any of them from previous “work” in the tower?

SF: No.

http://georgewashington.blogspot.co.nz/2005/11/interview-with-scott-forbes.html
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February 23, 2015 9:55am
UglyTruth

Operation Gladio was not a conspiracy.

conspire (v.) late 14c., from Old French conspirer (14c.), from Latin conspirare “to agree, unite, plot,” literally “to breathe together,” from com- “together” (see com-) + spirare “to breathe” (see spirit (n.)). Or perhaps the notion is “to blow together” musical instruments, i.e., “To sound in unison.” Related: Conspired; conspiring.

‘You had to attack civilians, the people, women, children, innocent people, unknown people far removed from any political game. The reason was quite simple: to force … the public to turn to the state to ask for greater security.” ~ Vincenzo Vinciguerra
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February 23, 2015 10:00am
UglyTruth

The claim from one of Ugly’s swiveled eyed loons that it had anything to do with Al-Qaeda is bogus.

Sibel Deniz Edmonds is a former Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) translator and founder of the National Security Whistleblowers Coalition (NSWBC). Edmonds gained public attention following her firing from her position as a language specialist at the FBI’s Washington Field Office in March 2002. She had accused a colleague of covering up illicit activity involving Turkish nationals, alleged serious security breaches and cover-ups and that intelligence had been deliberately suppressed, endangering national security. Her later claims gained her awards and fame as a whistleblower.[1] She has been described as “the most gagged person in American history” by the American Civil Liberties Union.[2]

Edmonds testified before the 9/11 Commission, but her testimony was excluded from the official 567 page 9/11 Commission Report.[3]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sibel_Edmonds
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February 23, 2015 10:09am
EAD

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGHXjO8wHsA
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February 23, 2015 10:13am
Shawn Herles

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZQTn93YSLI
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February 23, 2015 10:32am
Shawn Herles

The disturbing connections between Al-Qaida, ISIS, and the Russian KGB/FSB.

Putin’s Russia. Do traces of KGB, FSB and GRU lead to Islamic State?

http://en.delfi.lt/central-eastern-europe/putins-russia-do-traces-of-kgb-fsb-and-gru-lead-to-islamic-state.d?id=66856642

Exploring Al-Qa’ida’s Russian Connection.

“That Dr. Ayman al-Zawahiri, bin Laden’s right-hand man and the leader of the global jihad movement since bin Laden’s death in May 2011, spent almost a half-year in the mid-1990s in the custody of Russian intelligence is admitted by both sides and is a matter of public record.[3] Just as significant, Zawahiri’s Russian sojourn occurred at a pivotal point in the development of al-Qa’ida; the shift in strategy, resulting in attacks on the “far enemy” (i.e. the United States), the road leading to 9/11, occurred after Zawahiri’s imprisonment by the Russians.”

http://20committee.com/2014/06/10/exploring-al-qaidas-russian-connection/
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February 23, 2015 10:35am
Shawn Herles

Putin condemns ‘Charlie Hebdo’ attack but his ideological allies support it.

http://euromaidanpress.com/2015/01/09/putin-condemns-charlie-hebdo-attack-but-his-ideological-allies-support-it/
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February 23, 2015 10:42am
stephieboy

Ugly Truth,

Sibel Edmonds makes number of spurious claims including the government is attempting to gag her. That is untrue . This book written by her puts a lie to that claim,

Classified Woman-The Sibel Edmonds Story: A Memoir,

http://www.amazon.com/Classified-Woman-The-Sibel-Edmonds-Story/product-reviews/0615602223/ref=cm_cr_dp_qt_hist_one?ie=UTF8&filterBy=addOneStar&showViewpoints=0

Plus her own blog ,

http://www.boilingfrogspost.com

Among her nonsense claims was that key government officials had advanced warning of the 9/11 attacks . That is blatantly untrue . Certainly there were ongoing non specific and vague warnings about impending hijackings and bombings aboard . But absolutely nothing about the impending attacks on the WTC etc on 9/11 that the “whistleblower “ claims

The truth is she has never been able to bring to the table anything tangible that throws light on intelligence gathering and any foreknowledge about the attacks .As indicated she if you watch or read her closely she is singularly vague and coy about specifics relying largely on heresay of what her fellow translators alleged ,

Sibel Edmonds can indeed count herself lucky that she lives in the US and not say Putin’s Russia whom I can assure you would of effectively gagged her long ago, nay even murder her .

I wonder if she spares a reflective thought for Anna Politkovskaya ?
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February 23, 2015 11:08am
UglyTruth

Sibel Edmonds makes number of spurious claims including the government is attempting to gag her. That is untrue

According to Ashcroft, everything involving my case and my allegations were considered state secrets, and whether or not I was right in my allegations, the United States District Court had to dismiss my entire case without any questions, hearings or oral argument; period. According to Ashcroft, the court had to grant his order and dismiss the entire case with no hearings solely based on the fact that he, Ashcroft, said so. After all, our government knew best. As of that day, my case came to be gagged; but I continued on.
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0505/S00188.htm

This book written by her puts a lie to that claim

Go ask your mother what “attempt” means, idiot.
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February 23, 2015 12:17pm
stephieboy

Ugly Truth, Sibel Edmonds was never gagged .

Her books, blog and continual TV interviews and appearences put a lie to that claim. How come the case is still debated by her and others in the media and on her Boiling Frog blog ?

http://www.boilingfrogspost.com/about-us/about-sibel-edmonds/
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February 23, 2015 12:22pm
UglyTruth

Her books, blog and continual TV interviews and appearences put a lie to that claim.

So what? It’s no big secret that she didn’t recognize Ashcroft’s gag order as being legitimate.

http://baltimorechronicle.com/121704Hogue.shtml
Opinion from Jim Hogue:

In his legal appeal to Judge Reggie Walton to silence FBI Whistleblower Sibel Edmonds, Ashcroft has inadvertently, through the very language of the appeal, provided eloquent proof of treason and misprision of treason within the highest levels of government.

Their refusal to release the report of the Inspector General, and their original gag order to “block discovery in a lawsuit of any information that, if disclosed, would adversely affect national security” raises obvious questions (still unasked by the mainstream and progressive media) as to WHO is being protected. The gag order itself provides the answer to another obvious question (still unasked by the mainstream and progressive media) as to WHY the gag order was sought.
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February 23, 2015 6:38pm

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