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January 29, 2015 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 29 January 2015

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General Debate

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UglyTruth

What an earth does enormous energy surplus ” mean precisely ?

It means more energy than can be can be explained by sources from the MSM story of 9/11:

For example: melted boots, reports of molten steel, the millions of gallons of water used to cool the site, huge amounts of fine particulate matter, and a giant hole in the granite bedrock under one of the towers. The simplest explanation for this energy is that it was produced as a result of the detonation of nuclear devices.
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January 29, 2015 1:13pm
UglyTruth

Our justice system and its application puzzle me. Thousands of NZ motorists are bullied by the police with fines for edging over the speed limit at Christmas.

What you are describing is a protection racket, not a system of justice.
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January 29, 2015 1:18pm
Manolo

A joy for chamber music lovers: http://www.music.org.nz/2015-festival-programme/#fri6
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January 29, 2015 1:23pm
Shawn Herles

Is that truly the best you can do ‘Kimbo’?

You don’t have the intellect to debate the issues – so you resort to ‘spin’ and personal attacks.

Actually Penny Kimbo has demolished your argument, more than once today. You just ignore anything which does not suit you.

One law for all means simply that everyone is under the same single law code. I am not saying I agree with the policy, just that that is what it means.

Now under the “one law” that we have, Banks is exercising his legal RIGHT not to testify. That is the law. Thus there is no hypocrisy involved.

On the other hand, your hypocrisy is blindingly obvious. You target Banks, while excusing and defending Kim Dotcom, who tried to use his wealth to buy an election outcome favorable to his legal case. He tried to manipulate NZ’s democracy by using his capitalist profits.

Yet you defend him. Why? Because he funded your political friends.

You attack Banks instead. Why? Because he opposes your political friends.

That Penny, is hypocrisy.

The only “moral” principle you are displaying is whatever suits Penny and her far Left friends, not genuine justice.
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January 29, 2015 1:26pm
UglyTruth

Actually Penny Kimbo has demolished your argument, more than once today.

Why should anyone believe that? Yesterday you said that their were holes in my arguments, but you were unable to say what they were.

One law for all means simply that everyone is under the same single law code.

A universal legal code is an aspect of the union of the church and state. The Church of England shares much of it’s doctrine which the Roman Catholic Church, where Catholic, from katholika, means universal.
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January 29, 2015 1:37pm
hj

stephieboy (3,966 comments) says:
January 29th, 2015 at 12:17 pm

hj, heterogeneity breeds innovation ? Jaoan ? The U.S and Canada proves otherwise
……..
as does japan prove otherwise
======
BTW Are you into eugenetcs and selective breeding as I susoect most anti multiculturists like you are ??

…
That’s a slippery slope argument (logical fallacies are your thing)

Multiculturalists are opposed to ethnic nations such as japan. While there are strengths and weaknesses to Japanese society their society is cultural (as demonstrated by their antipathy to Brazilian Japanese). Stephieboy thinks japan would be better without the japanese hegemony so you have Hindu, Moslem, Anglo Saxon all fighting over what “Japan’s” national identity and values are.
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January 29, 2015 1:37pm
Shawn Herles

Why should anyone believe that? Yesterday you said that their were holes in my arguments, but you were unable to say what they were.

Because I already have, in the previous debate. Go back and read it.

A universal legal code is an aspect of the union of the church and state.

Rubbish. Rome had a universal legal code well before the advent of Christianity and any alliance between Church and State.

The Church of England shares much of it’s doctrine which the Roman Catholic Church

Not really. Beyond the creeds and episcopal govt there are significant differences. But then you have repeatedly demonstrated profound ignorance on the subject of Anglicanism, including the idiotic notion that because the Crown is head of the Church in England that we have a union of Church and State in NZ, which is wrong.

where Catholic, from katholika, means universal.

The term “Catholic” in the creeds refers to the church alone, as in the universal church. It does not mean the world beyond the Church in the way you are claiming.
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January 29, 2015 1:45pm
stephieboy

Ugly Truth, Hmmm…. The simple explanation a Nuclear Device ? Did Feltzer , Fox and coy ever bother to check and test their theory with say the Atomic Society or Nuclear Physicists , Nuclear Engineers and structural engineers with peer review analysis ?

I suspect not . Just like a failure to consider alternative factors I outlined that could explain a higher than usual
background radiation ?

And can only come up apparently with one person who they suspect had tell tale Radiadition burns .Not confirmed by any independent medical or hospital diagnosis .

Interesting …!

They had a theory with their own pedermined ideas reaching a predermined conclusion .In nother words confirmation bias !
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January 29, 2015 1:47pm
Jack5

Ryan Sproull posted at 12.44:

Kimbo is the person you mean to be addressing, Jack. I didn’t talk specifically about the wine industry.

My apologies to you, Ryan.
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January 29, 2015 1:52pm
UglyTruth

Because I already have, in the previous debate.

Stating an opinion isn’t the same as showing that a flaw exists in an argument.

“I’m going to go out on a limb and say that I doubt the Earth is hollow.” ~ Shawn
http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2015/01/general_debate_28_january_2015.html#comment-1469631

Rome had a universal legal code well before the advent of Christianity and any alliance between Church and State.

So what? It doesn’t change the fact that a universal legal code is an aspect of the union of the church and state.

Not really.

Yes really. The Church of England split from the RCC due to political differences, not differnet opinions about religious doctrine.

The term “Catholic” in the creeds refers to the church alone, as in the universal church. It does not mean anything else.

Wrong, the meaning should be interpreted against the interests of the RCC (contra proferentem).
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January 29, 2015 1:58pm
UglyTruth

Did Feltzer , Fox and coy ever bother to check and test their theory with say the Atomic Society or Nuclear Physicists , Nuclear Engineers and structural engineers with peer review analysis ?

Whether they did or not is irrelevant to the fact that detonation of nuclear devices is the most reasonable explanation for the excess energy.

They had a theory with their own pedermined ideas reaching a predermined conclusion .In nother words confirmation bias !

Why do you say that their ideas were predetermined?
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January 29, 2015 2:02pm
renderer

So you attracted the 1.5% Penny. Said in a caring way of course
Carterton really rolled out the red carpet for an old girl of the town
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January 29, 2015 2:04pm
Jack5

Kimbo posted at 12.22:

…are you seriously suggesting that having an FTA with China is not assisted by having our own resident Chinese population to plug into contacts back in their original homeland?

It doesn’t hurt the FTA, Kimbo, and wouldn’t unless NZ Chinese were all Falun Gong or Taiwanese, or perhaps soon, refugees from Hong Kong. But some examples would be nice to examine. I don’t mean Chinese enterprises which have set up in NZ to duplicate what Fonterra does in milk products, for example.

Kimbo also posted on the pioneering of the NZ wine industry:

Whether it could have/would have been done without the Dalmatians (and/or the Lebanese) you mentioned, nevertheless it was done off the base they laid. Anything else is pointless speculation. I also think you will find it started to “take-off” in the Muldoon years. but ultimately it was on a continuum started by the immigrant groups you mentioned.

Kimbo, the industry founded by these groups, for decades produced ports and sherries, consumed to a large degree by the country’s down and outs. Well before them, in 1836, before the Treaty of Waitangi, the British Resident, Busby, produced the first NZ wine, and the industry was pioneered by Catholic missionaries in Hawkes Bay.

Agriculture scientists, such as those at then Lincoln College, were active from the 1970s in identifying potential new wine growing areas and prospective new wine varieties. Then it was State subsidies that helped the great replanting that put the wine industry on its great growth track. This is from Wikipedia:

In 1984 the then Labour Government paid growers to pull up vines to address a glut that was damaging the industry. Ironically many growers used the Government grant not to restrict planting, but to swap from less economic varieties (such as Müller Thurgau and other hybrids) to more fashionable varieties (Chardonnay and Sauvignon blanc), using the old root stock. The glut was only temporary in any case, as boom times returned swiftly.
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January 29, 2015 2:23pm
stephieboy

Ugly Truth, caught our yet again re stereoscopic examination of Apollo15 photos .

First the claim of the your links author needs some verification. As my link shows there is some confusion and doubt . Ostensibly it appear to be a Russian a Dr Oleg Oleynek who its claimed founded a university ands to be no way to check this out and no evidence of so called “ Project – D- MSK . Maybe you could help ?

It is claimed he has done on line research . Again apparently no way you can check it out .
Another Russian contributor is mentioned but the article is written by a Mary Bennet.

Pretty Weird .

As to the photos themselves Mick West the blog administer makes the following points ,

I think he’s a little confused or unclear as to what he means by “moved”. Movement is relative, so “moved” relative to what? Clearly if you move a camera back and forth, then everything in the picture moves. So the key is how much they move relative to a point which is infinitely far away. In this example he uses the power station..

…An ideal object would be the sun or moon, of the top of a very distant mountain. But in the lunar examples he seems to be picking arbitrary points on the horizon.

and,

If he just took the fixed point as the most distant feature in the shot, these stereograms wouldn’t be nearly as weird looking. There’s no particular reason to pick the arbitrary points that he does.”

etc,etc, etc

https://www.metabunk.org/threads/moon-stuff-stereoscopic-examination-of-photos.2987/

I think the alleged Russian Scientist “ Mary Bennett “ and you need a visit from Buzz Aldrin,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wcrkxOgzhU

PS Re Predetermination .?Simply put did Feltzer and coy bother to get their findings peer reviewed by e.g by a team Nuclear or Structural Engineers etc
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January 29, 2015 2:33pm
UglyTruth

Ugly Truth, caught with your pants down yet again re stereoscopic examination of Apollo15 photos .

Like your 1:47 where you used the appeal to authority fallacy to try and debunk my argument, you mean?

First the claim of the your links author needs some verification.

Why do you say that? I doubt that your link is even relevant.
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January 29, 2015 2:38pm
Jack5

Further to Kimbo on the NZ wine industry.

This is from former Cabinet Minister Michael Bassett’s 2008 book, Working with David: Inside the Lange Cabinet

… in November 1985 a large wine maker, Villa Maria, went into receivership, and it was soon clear that there was a ‘lake’ of surplus wine, forcing down prices and putting many small producers at risk. At Jonathan Hunt’s urging, David Caygill promoted the idea of a one-off subsidy to wine makers to enable them to pull up excessive plantings of lower quality grapes and replace them with varietals at the higher end of the market. A group of Auckland Cabinet Ministers met many Auckland-based winemakers at Soljans in my electorate on a Saturday morning before Christmas. Eventually a grumpy Douglas agreed to a $10 million, one-off subsidy. One thousand hectares of land was cleared of surplus vines – mostly muller thurgau and chenin blanc – and replaced with sauvignon blanc and chardonnay, which became the first varietals to put NZ on the world’s wine map. Exports passed the $1 million mark in 1984. In 2005 the reached the half billion mark. The decision was a landmark in the history of the country’s wine industry.
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January 29, 2015 2:54pm
Kimbo

@ Jack5

This is from former Cabinet Minister Michael Bassett’s 2008 book, Working with David: Inside the Lange Cabinet

Hardly an unbiased source regarding Muldoon’s contributions!

http://www.nzhistory.net.nz/culture/the-1980s/overview

The local wine industry boomed – the area planted in grapes soared from 2351 ha in 1975 to 5901ha in 1982.

None of which contradicts the point I made – the New Zealand wine industry today stands as part of an unbroken continuum that includes the pioneering work of New Zealand’s Croatian community…unless you want to erase names like Babich, Nobilo and Selaks from the equation?!
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January 29, 2015 3:18pm
Shawn Herles

@ Ugly

Yes really. The Church of England split from the RCC due to political differences, not differnet opinions about religious doctrine.

Utter rubbish. Again. The split between Rome and Canterbury was only partly about politics. The Reformation was already gaining ground in England, and calls for the reform of the Church of England along Reformation principles were growing louder.

That Ptotestant reform movement was a major reason for the final split, and the Prayer Book that replaced the Roman Rite was written in accordance with Protestant principles.

Your ignorance is showing. Again.

Wrong, the meaning should be interpreted against the interests of the RCC

On what grounds? It should be interpreted according to how it has actually been used and understood. Otherwise you are just making crap up to suit yourself. Again.
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January 29, 2015 3:24pm
Shawn Herles

Heh.

“Conspiracy theories are pure sophistry. Large numbers of people cannot keep secrets.” – – Sherlock Holmes in Elementary.
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January 29, 2015 3:31pm
Redbaiter

“Conspiracy theories are pure sophistry. Large numbers of people cannot keep secrets.”

Yes, Ward Churchill found that out when he tried to spin that bullshit conspiracy about deliberately small pox infected blankets. That’s the story you still buy into even though true and accredited Native Americans themselves have debunked it.
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January 29, 2015 3:33pm
UglyTruth

Why should anyone believe that? Yesterday you said that their were holes in my arguments, but you were unable to say what they were.

Because I already have, in the previous debate.

No you haven’t. Stating an opinion isn’t the same as showing that a flaw exists in an argument.

“I’m going to go out on a limb and say that I doubt the Earth is hollow.” ~ Shawn
http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2015/01/general_debate_28_january_2015.html#comment-1469631

Why should anyone believe a word you that you say, Shawn?
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January 29, 2015 3:40pm
Jack5

Kimbo, here’s what you said in your 11.09 post:

Mind you, our world-class wine industry was built on the backs of Dalmatian immigrants over 100 years ago …

That seems to gives much too much credit for building our export wine industry to the Dallies, known first here as Austrians because Croatia was part of the Austrian empire.

In your 3.18 post, you say:

…the New Zealand wine industry today stands as part of an unbroken continuum that includes the pioneering work of New Zealand’s Croatian community…

No problem here, as it doesn’t rule out the earlier pioneering work of the Catholic missionaries in Hawke’s Bay, of Busby, of the French at Akaroa and so on, and it doesn’t completely rule out the fact that real innovation and development of the wine industry was still to come, beginning half a century or so ago. Not sure what the “unbroken” means, though, and I’m not sure why you so heavily discount the account of a Cabinet Minister involved, even if he is a Labour Minister. Note that Bassett does mildly denigrate Douglas.

By the way, Kimbo, the NZ History site you link to I note is a State site – part of the Ministry of Culture. WTF is the State doing producing this sort of material? Bit more suited to a totalitarian country I would have thought.
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January 29, 2015 3:52pm
UglyTruth

The split between Rome and Canterbury was only partly about politics. The Reformation was already gaining ground in England, and calls for the reform of the Church of England along Reformation principles were growing louder.

That Ptotestant reform movement was a major reason for the final split, and the Prayer Book that replaced the Roman Rite was written in accordance with Protestant principles.

More bullshit from Shawn.

“The Reformation must not be confused with the changes introduced into the Church of England during the ‘Reformation Parliament’ of 1529-36, which were of a political rather than a religious nature, designed to unite the secular and religious sources of authority within a single sovereign power: the Anglican Church did not until later make any substantial change in doctrine.” Roger Scruton, A Dictionary of Political Thought (Macmillan, 1996), p. 470.
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January 29, 2015 3:54pm
Kimbo

@ Jack5

By the way, Kimbo, the NZ History site you link to I note is a State site – part of the Ministry of Culture. WTF is the State doing producing this sort of material? Bit more suited to a totalitarian country I would have thought.

From memory, when Chris Finlayson announced they were going to lay off about 15 of the 19 “historians” compiling a similar site Te Ara I think, first set up – you guessed it! – in the Clark years) he made the droll comment, “there comes a limit to how much history can be written. If more happens we’ll write it then!” 🙂

http://www.teara.govt.nz/en

Oh, and here is a post about it from our resident kiwiblog friend, Scott Hamilton

http://readingthemaps.blogspot.co.nz/2014/03/chris-finlayson-and-end-of-history.html

Interesting swapping thoughts with you, Jack5. Cheers.
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January 29, 2015 4:03pm
UglyTruth

The meaning should be interpreted against the interests of the RCC

On what grounds?

Contra proferentem. The principle traces back to the gospels, IIRC.

It should be interpreted according to how it has actually been used and understood.

Like when it was used to promote obedience to the church and state through the one law for all doctrine, you mean?

Otherwise you are just making crap up to suit yourself. Again.

Go take a long hard look in the mirror, fool.
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January 29, 2015 4:06pm
Manolo

The new Greek goverment in action: http://www.cnbc.com/id/102377900

Germans in shock as new Greek leader starts with a bang

In his first act as prime minister on Monday, Alexis Tsipras visited the war memorial in Kaisariani where 200 Greek resistance fighters were slaughtered by the Nazis in 1944.

The move did not go unnoticed in Berlin. Nor did Tsipras’s decision hours later to receive the Russian ambassador before meeting any other foreign official.
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January 29, 2015 4:10pm
Manolo

Multiculturalism in England but Paki-style: http://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/uknews/man-who-cut-off-wifes-head-with-knife-jailed/ar-AA8GGm2?ocid=mailsignoutmd
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January 29, 2015 4:50pm
Viking2

Here we go again. I play rugby therefore I can be given a hospital pass by the Judge.

A Blues rugby star tipped to be a future All Black has dodged a conviction for drink driving.

In Manukau District Court in July, New Zealand under-20 and Blues wing Tevita Li, 19, pleaded guilty to driving with a blood-alcohol reading of 45mg.

The legal limit for under 20s is zero.

Since then the case has been adjourned several times for the rugby starlet to prove he should be discharged without conviction.

Today Judge Gus Andree Wiltens granted that application and Li’s only penalty was to pay $210 to cover the medical costs of taking and testing his blood-alcohol level

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/crime/news/article.cfm?c_id=30&objectid=11393518
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January 29, 2015 5:22pm
SGA

Shawn Herles at 3:24 pm

@ Ugly -The Church of England split from the RCC due to political differences, not differnet opinions about religious doctrine.

Utter rubbish. Again. The split between Rome and Canterbury was only partly about politics. The Reformation was already gaining ground in England, and calls for the reform of the Church of England along Reformation principles were growing louder.

Honest question, Shawn. So, the business about Henry being made a “Defender of the Faith” for writing in defense of the papacy shouldn’t be taken too seriously? I’ve always had the impression (probably been taught at some time?) that Henry’s decision to split was more political than religious, but not so?

(don’t worry, Redbaiter, I don’t intend to pursue this at length, just curious. You can leave your angry comment chastising me for another time)
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January 29, 2015 5:45pm
cricko

What’s the problem here ?

http://www.9news.com.au/world/2015/01/29/07/56/truck-filled-with-hundreds-of-living-cats-seized-en-route-to-vietnamese-restaurants

Oh ! They didn’t have the correct paperwork.

Correct paperwork, no probleemo.
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January 29, 2015 5:46pm
Shawn Herles

Honest question, Shawn. So, the business about Henry being made a “Defender of the Faith” for writing in defense of the papacy shouldn’t be taken too seriously?

No Henry was likely serious.

I’ve always had the impression (probably been taught at some time?) that Henry’s decision to split was more political than religious, but not so?

Bit of an historical misunderstanding here that is common. The final split from Rome did not really occur until the reign of Elisabeth 1. There were a variety of reasons why. Yes some were political, but the pace of the Reformation in England was also a major factor.

UT’s contention was that it was purely political and that no theological issues or change were involved. That is wrong.

Then again, saying UT is wrong is like saying human beings breath air. 🙂
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January 29, 2015 6:01pm
SGA

@Shawn
Ta. Maybe some slow, wet evening I’ll have a browse and pick up the details.
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January 29, 2015 6:06pm
Nostradamus

This story is incredibly sad:

A Utah couple and their three children who were found dead in their home in September overdosed on drugs after the parents told friends and family they were worried about the apocalypse, authorities say.

Benjamin and Kristi Strack and three of their four children – ages 11, 12 and 14 – were found dead in a locked bedroom of their Springville home. All five were in a bed, with the kids tucked into the covers around their parents.
…
Finlayson said interviews with people who knew the Stracks indicated the parents were worried about evil in the world and wanted to escape from “impending doom”.

I’m a parent – but, even if I weren’t, I’d still find it difficult to understand why these parents decided to wipe out their own family.
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January 29, 2015 6:07pm
Shawn Herles

“Contra proferentem. The principle traces back to the gospels, IIRC.”

Bollocks. Making shite up again.

Like when it was used to promote obedience to the church and state through the one law for all doctrine, you mean?

No. I mean it should be used according to it’s actual creedal meaning, and not according to you opinions about history and Church and State, which are irrelevant.

“The Reformation must not be confused with the changes introduced into the Church of England during the ‘Reformation Parliament’ of 1529-36, which were of a political rather than a religious nature, designed to unite the secular and religious sources of authority within a single sovereign power: the Anglican Church did not until later make any substantial change in doctrine.”

Scruton is wrong. Substantial changes in doctrine did occur very early, in 1549. That the split was partly political is true. That it was purely political is not.
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January 29, 2015 6:08pm
Shawn Herles

Why should anyone believe a word you that you say, Shawn?

Why should anyone believe you? You think rocks are squirrels and the Earth is hollow! 🙂

Being a gullible fool willing to swallow any old crap so long as it comes from a whackjob conspiracy site, no matter how insane, is not honesty, it’s stupidity.

After all, it was you who tried to tell everyone here that a single blog written by a single man with a history of mental health issues was a genuine International Court!

On that basis alone everything you say should be considered bollocks until proven otherwise!
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January 29, 2015 6:12pm
Redbaiter

(don’t worry, Redbaiter, I don’t intend to pursue this at length, just curious. You can leave your angry comment chastising me for another time)

Well its up to you of course, I’m not going to criticise every example of an extremely personal discussion here, but Whaleoil gets 10 times the hits of Kiwiblog because for all of Pete Belt’s over-zealous moderation, he does at least keep this kind of shit with its very narrow appeal out.
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January 29, 2015 6:14pm
Redbaiter

Being a gullible fool willing to swallow any old crap so long as it comes from a whackjob conspiracy site

Just like you swallow the fully debunked conspiracy about smallpox infected blankets. How can you be so selective and simultaneously such a hypocrite?
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January 29, 2015 6:16pm
UglyTruth

The meaning should be interpreted against the interests of the RCC

On what grounds?

“Contra proferentem. The principle traces back to the gospels, IIRC.”

Bollocks. Making shite up again.

Wrong yet again, Shawn.

Verba chartarum fortius accipiuntur contra proferentem The words of deeds are to be interpreted most strongly against him who uses them.

http://www.davidthomas.com.au/miscmaxims.htm

Also

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/contra-proferentem

Law
(Of the interpretation of an ambiguous contract) against the party which proposed or drafted the contract or clause.
Example sentences
Origin

Latin, ‘against (the person) mentioning’.
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January 29, 2015 6:17pm
UglyTruth

How can you be so selective and simultaneously such a hypocrite?

It’s symbolically called blindness or deafness, and is described in the Tanak, the Quran, and the gospels.
It’s a condition suffered by religious apostates.
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January 29, 2015 6:23pm
UglyTruth

Why should anyone believe you?

I asked first. The answer is that there is no good reason to believe a word you say: you have been proven wrong many times and you refuse to admit being wrong when you argue against me.

You won’t admit that Paul of Tarsus lied about his apostleship when it is clear that being told to proceed to Damascus for instructions is not consistent with being appointed while still on the road to the city – this is straight out of the book of Acts.

You think rocks are squirrels and the Earth is hollow! 🙂

You won’t believe a picture of a squirrel is actually a squirrel because you won’t believe that NASA would lie about it.

Centrifugal force tends to make a fluid body expand (magma is a fluid), and an expanding surface is perfectly consistent with the evidence that leads to the theory of continental drift for this planet. When a fluid body rotates the center forms a void, and if the centrifugal force causes it to expand then that void will simply increase in size, and you end up with a hollow planet

There are several witnesses who have seen the inner Earth (eg Admiral Byrd), and there’s even a video of clouds and air being sucked into the north polar opening.
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January 29, 2015 6:42pm
nasska

Nostra

….”I’m a parent – but, even if I weren’t, I’d still find it difficult to understand why these parents decided to wipe out their own family.”…..

Google is our friend…..from http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2015/01/28/god-besotted-parents-in-utah-killed-three-children-and-selves-for-fear-of-the-impending-apocalypse/

….”Five corpses in Utah, including those of three children, were the result of a belief in Biblical end times, police said,”…..

….”There are multiple possible factors for the September tragedy, including mental-health issues and a known history of drug abuse. But given the police investigators’ conclusion that “evil in the world” and a coming “apocalypse” were key reasons for the five deaths, religion richly deserves to be put front and center. Sane people do not murder their own children, but religion and insanity often act as each other’s accelerants.”…..

To do small evil a person needs only to be human but to do great evil requires the help of an imaginary higher being.
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January 29, 2015 6:46pm
SGA

Redbaiter at 6:14 pm

he does at least keep this kind of shit with its very narrow appeal out.

Well, at least we’ve got your pursuit of Shawn to help raise the standard of debate around here 🙂
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January 29, 2015 6:47pm
UglyTruth

After all, it was you who tried to tell everyone here that a single blog written by a single man with a history of mental health issues was a genuine International Court!

And you accuse me of making shit up.

What I said was “Kevin Arnett is not a part of a properly constituted international tribunal”.

http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2014/04/general_debate_22_april_2014.html#comment-1309543
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January 29, 2015 6:52pm
dad4justice

Any chance of a elected politician explaining to me a struggling/ stressed taxpayer why New Zealand is in debt so much?

Our local tribe pays no tax, why is that?
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January 29, 2015 6:58pm
Rowan

Can NZ revise its World Cup squad and leave out Guptill? Probably not but second first baller in the series and not to many other runs. Bring in Jesse but that’s not going to happen, Lathams form is just as bad but from outside the squad they could go with Dean Brownlie perhaps, couldn’t be any worse but the chances are Guptill will be preservered with.
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January 29, 2015 7:08pm
dad4justice

Any chance of a KIWIBLOG BLOGGER explaining to me a struggling/ stressed taxpayer why New Zealand is in debt so much?
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January 29, 2015 7:15pm
Urban Redneck

It never ceases to amaze me as to how many people are prepared to swallow loony-tunes conspiracy theories. By believing that they understand the “real truth”, they regard themselves as enlightened and special I suppose . . either that or they’ve never accepted the Ockham’s razor principle.
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January 29, 2015 7:15pm
publicwatchdog

‘One Track’ – why on earth would I vote for Len Brown, when I stood against him and campaigned against him in both 2010 and 2013 as a fellow Auckland Mayoral candidate?

DUH?

Penny Bright

http://www.pennybright4mayor.org.nz
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January 29, 2015 7:23pm
Lucia Maria

Well, the new Greek Government is openly pro-Putin. Sounds like the Greeks inhabit the same universe as EAD et al.

From Why Putin will lose

… The newly-elected hard-left SYRIZA party is not just anti-austerity, it’s openly pro-Putin. New Prime Minister Alexis Tspiras makes no effort to hide his admiration for this Kremlin, and the first foreign dignitary he entertained as PM was Russia’s ambassador to Greece. Greece’s new defense minister visited Moscow before the election, while the new foreign minister is pals with Aleksander Dugin, the Kremlin-approved neo-fascist ideologist (while Dugin, the son of a GRU general, is a marginal figure in Moscow, he is employed by the regime as fly-paper for foreign Putin groupies). Although SYRIZA is a very left-wing party, it fits comfortably into the mostly far-right Putinist coalition in Europe. As Dugin explained in 2013, “In Greece, our partners could eventually be Leftists from SYRIZA, which refuses Atlanticism, liberalism and the domination of the forces of global finance. As far as I know, SYRIZA is anti-capitalist and it is critical of the global oligarchy that has victimized Greece and Cyprus.”

The writer makes some interesting comments on how Putin supporters are more numerous the further away from Russia they live:

It’s easy to fantasize about Putin “saving” Europe from itself when you’re in Germany or Greece, or better yet France. Such illusions are rare in Poland, Romania, the Baltic States, much less Ukraine, where the hungry Russian bear looms close-by. One wonders what Marine Le Pen would think of her crush in the Kremlin if France were located a thousand kilometers eastward of where it is.

Anyway, the whole post is very interesting, especially as to why Putin will fail:

Putin’s neo-imperial project is doomed to fail. Its inherent contradictions are great, to add a fleeting Marxist note. It is an intensely Russian project and the very things that make Putinism intoxicating to Russians — its nationalist politics and religion, its paeans to Muscovy’s heroes and greatness past — render it toxic to foreigners. For all its ambitions beyond the borders of the Russian Federation, Putinism has nothing to offer non-Russians except vassalage.

Yep, as those who live close to Russia well know.
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January 29, 2015 7:27pm
Griff

😆
I see old redbait is upset about conspiracy being posted on KB.
Irony wed its so funny coming from a conservonutter like you.
When you daily spurt your cultural Marxist conspiracy whack.
The commies are going to get your red.
There is one under you bed and another just hijacked your zimmer frame.
😆
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January 29, 2015 7:27pm
Redbaiter

Any chance of a KIWIBLOG BLOGGER explaining to me a struggling/ stressed taxpayer why New Zealand is in debt so much?

Its simple Dad.

The economy produces X.

The government spends X + Y, being what it states is the minimum needed to govern the country.

Y is funded by borrowings, and increased substantially by the interest on those borrowings, Z.

So in fact the government spends X + Y + Z.

So we have a deficit each year, even when we are told there will be a surplus, and that deficit is added each year to our total debt. Which increases Z and then the whole thing increases exponentially, so that we will soon have about 10 times the debt that existed when Key won office. With about $10 billion of that caused by the Canterbury earthquake.

Of course the issue is- does it really cost around $80 billion to govern a country of just over 4 million people. According to John Key and Bill English, it does. That is roughly $20,000 for every man woman and child in NZ. Or $400/ week. So if you’ve got any kids, that is what each of them is paying for the privilege of being governed in NZ.

Ooops, except that each kid probably doesn’t earn $400 a week. In fact too, many people are on a benefit. In other words drawing from the cookie jar, not putting in to it. And then most working for govt are also drawing down on the cookie jar. So who is paying the $80 billion? Think about the answer to that and you should be able to work out why we are in debt.
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January 29, 2015 7:29pm
dad4justice

Lucia, Putin wants war and Israel soon to happen tune in.

Can anybody explain to me why New Zealand owes so much money?

Edit – thank you Red I tell my grandson the country is fucked.Key is a burnside wimp and Klarkula a vile snake.
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January 29, 2015 7:30pm
publicwatchdog

Renderer – I was very happy with the turnout to my Public Meeting on Friday 23 January 2015 at the Carterton Memorial Hall.

I’m unaware of any other Kiwibloggers who have got off their butts and made the effort to meet concerned folk in the Greater Wellington region, to warn them of what a disaster has been this John Key led National/ACT Government forced Auckland regional amalgamation – this ‘Supercity’ – for the 1%.

Are you an Aucklander ‘Renderer’?

If so – are YOU happy with Auckland Council?

Penny Bright

http://www.pennybright4mayor.org.nz
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January 29, 2015 7:35pm
UglyTruth

either that or they’ve never accepted the Ockham’s razor principle.

Occam’s razor describes the principle that the explanation which has the least number of assumptions is the one that is most likely to be true.

For example, Occam’s razor tells us that the nuclear demolition theory is more probable that the gravitational collapse theory, because the gravitational collapse theory assumes that there exists an energy source which caused the persistent heat of the debris pile which originated from the limited gravitational potential energy of the towers and sub 100C office fires. To get an idea of how unlikely this assumption is, consider that the destruction of the towers had enough energy to melt a massive hole in the granite bedrock, and started underground fires that kept burning for months, even with millions of gallons of water being applied to cool the site.
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January 29, 2015 7:35pm
publicwatchdog

Ah Shawn – just can’t help yourself – can you?

You just have to read and respond to my posts 🙂

Good on you!

Well done.

Kind regards

Penny Bright
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January 29, 2015 7:36pm
RightNow

Steamed clam anyone?
http://theloom.someecards.com/the-loom/gwyneth-paltrow-says-women-should-get-their-vaginas-steamed/
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January 29, 2015 7:38pm
dad4justice

So the local tribe pays no tax, the local council owes $2 billion and Batman and Robin wank on about a rock star economy!?

How fucking dumb is the kiwi?
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January 29, 2015 7:40pm
publicwatchdog

Anyone know how much NZ is now exposed to ‘off the books’ derivatives?

My understanding is that in 2012 it was $112 billion?

Penny Bright
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January 29, 2015 7:41pm
dad4justice

The NZ taxpayer must pay the Earl of Key.

Kiwi’s are far too dumb to do anything about the RORT!
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January 29, 2015 7:44pm
nasska

A link I clicked on when checking out RightNow’s find.
http://happyplace.someecards.com/index.php/family/mother-of-two-takes-darkly-funny-photographs-of-her-family/

Appealed to my black sense of humour.
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January 29, 2015 7:47pm
Griff

Talking of zimmer frames
https://www.facebook.com/Teanderthal/posts/670619056309127
The average age of Fox News viewers is 68 and a majority of them are politically conservative and white

Nielsen TV data through mid-Januray shows that the average age of Fox viewers is 68
In Frank Rich’s New York Magazine article, ‘Stop Beating a Dead Fox’ he calls Fox News a politically conservative ‘retirement community’ that’s losing young viewers at a faster rate than it’s competitors.
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January 29, 2015 7:49pm
Griff

A message for minus
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January 29, 2015 8:11pm
nasska

https://www.dropbox.com/s/hgzti5yc5ub8tc5/Wankstain%209.jpg?dl=0
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January 29, 2015 8:16pm
dad4justice

Hey gripp you must have a real cool life if you worrying about a “minus” on a blog.

God help us all.
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January 29, 2015 8:21pm
Griff

If you want help d4j take ya meds matey.
it will do a lot more for you than praying to an imaginary friend.
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January 29, 2015 8:40pm
nasska

Don’t take any chances Dad…..stick to both God & the pills. 🙂
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January 29, 2015 8:47pm
cha

Talking of zimmer frames

heh

So what’s the latest tally?

At Fox and Fox News, 10 percent of the claims we’ve rated have been True, 11 percent Mostly True, 18 percent Half True, 21 percent Mostly False, 31 percent False and nine percent Pants on Fire.

That means about 60 percent of the claims we’ve checked have been rated Mostly False or worse. Here’s how it breaks down (as of Jan. 27, 2015):

http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/article/2015/jan/27/msnbc-fox-cnn-move-needle-our-truth-o-meter-scorec/
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January 29, 2015 9:07pm
Manolo

The intolerant savages, the followers of vile Islam, the religion of peace, disgrace Sweden: http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4618568,00.html

Swedish reporter encounters anti-Semitic abuse.

After more anti-Semitic crimes were reported in Malmo than in any other city in Sweden, Swedish reporter Peter Lindgren decided to conduct a social experiment by putting on a kippa (yarmulke or skullcap) and a Star of David necklace and walking around the city to see how locals treated Jews.

Passersby on streets of Malmo call Sveriges Television reporter Peter Lindgren ‘Jewish shit’ and ‘Jewish Satan’, telling him to ‘get out’.

In Rosengard, a neighborhood heavily populated by Muslims, Lindgren was surrounded by a dozen men who threatened him, while residents of nearby apartments threw eggs at him and shouted anti-Semitic slogans. Lindgren then decided to leave for fear of increased violence.
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January 29, 2015 9:12pm
Redbaiter

You’re so easily sucked in Cha even I am embarrassed for you.
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January 29, 2015 9:18pm
Reid

In Rosengard, a neighborhood heavily populated by Muslims, Lindgren was surrounded by a dozen men who threatened him, while residents of nearby apartments threw eggs at him and shouted anti-Semitic slogans. Lindgren then decided to leave for fear of increased violence.

Of course the simple fact the same thing plus much worse would almost certainly happen to a white man walking in Harlem and millions of other neighbourhoods in cities around the world including Otara in our very own Auckland, means nothing to the idiots who hallucinate this experiment proves anything at all.

I’d call it an epic fail, but I doubt galloping mentals who think precisely that would understand those complicated four letter words.

Muslim-Christian war sheeple?

Four legs good two legs bad sheeple?

Maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.
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January 29, 2015 9:37pm
Griff

Actually red that doesn’t prove any thing when it comes to faux news
cha quoted the fox pundit statistics not the individual politicians statistics that your study examines.
reading the linked study
It could equally be that republicans are a bunch of lying idiots. The study just question if there may be selection bias and fails to give a definitive answer

Republican statements were graded in the dreaded “false” and “pants on fire” categories 39 percent of the time, compared to just 12 percent for statements made by Democrats.

That means a supermajority of falsehoods documented by PolitiFact over the last year – 76 percent – were attributed to Republicans, with just 22 percent of such statements coming from Democrats.

As a consequence, Democrats have therefore been presented as much more truthful – with over 75 percent of statements receiving the top three grades of True (16 percent), Mostly True (27 percent), or Half True (33 percent).

Less than half of Republican statements graded by PolitiFact were regarded as half truths or better – just 90 out of 191 (47 percent).

In short you are talking your normal baseless conspiracy driven twaddle and ignoring the actual facts.
how unusual.
😆
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January 29, 2015 9:39pm
renderer

Still recycling vinny eastwoods loony tunes, are ya Penny
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January 29, 2015 9:45pm
chiz

UT:

Centrifugal force tends to make a fluid body expand (magma is a fluid)

Centrifugal force tends to make fluids shift their position, but it doesn’t make them expand.

an expanding surface is perfectly consistent with the evidence that leads to the theory of continental drift for this planet

It’s difficult to see how it is consistent with anything. The evidence from seismology alone indicates that the Earth isn’t hollow.

When a fluid body rotates the center forms a void

No it doesn’t. A rotating fluid drop will form a maclaurin spheroid. There will be no void in the center.
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January 29, 2015 10:07pm
SGA

chiz at 10:07 pm
chiz, you seem relatively “up” on such things. Two quick questions –
If the world was hollow, then its mass would be a fraction of what it’s said to be, its gravitational force would be much less, and that would throw off all sorts of astronomical calculations concerning our solar system, wouldn’t it? You wouldn’t be able to hide that fact from every university physics department in the world, would you?
Second, more bizarre question, if the world was hollow but open at the poles, then our atmospheric conditions would be affected dramatically, wouldn’t it?
(add – and the world would cool very rapidly, I’d guess, without its core)
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January 29, 2015 10:23pm
Inandout

Manolo: As regards Sweden it was interesting to read the comments below. Maybe there has always been an anti Jew presence in that country which is why the Islamacultists have flocked there in such numbers.
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January 29, 2015 10:32pm
chiz

Yes, we know the mass of the Earth, from the Moon’s orbit, and from satellite orbits. If the Earth was hollow then some part of the shell would have to be incredibly dense – more so than you can get from ordinary matter.

Ironically the notion that the Earth was hollow actually started this way. In one of his first attempts at determining the value of the gravitational constant G Cavendish ended up with a low value for the Earth’s mass. Halley (of comet fame) suggested that maybe the reason the mass was so low was because the Earth was hollow. Subsequent experiments by Cavendish were better done.

If there were holes at the poles? I assume there would be massive meteorological impacts but I’m not sure what.
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January 29, 2015 10:39pm
chiz

Jewish leader gets trapped overnight in Auschwitz:

The president of Rome’s Jewish community has sparked a minor diplomatic incident after becoming locked in Auschwitz overnight along with an Italian TV crew.

Riccardo Pacifici was filming an episode of a TV program from the infamous Holocaust concentration camp in Poland when the group of five people found themselves locked in around 11pm, reports an Israeli news website.
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January 29, 2015 11:10pm
Manolo

Peaceful Iran: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/01/29/iran-calls-for-assassination-netanyahu-children/

Iran is encouraging its terror allies to pursue the assassination of Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s children by publishing personal information about them, including photographs of the kids lined up in crosshairs.
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January 30, 2015 7:31am
UglyTruth

Yes, we know the mass of the Earth, from the Moon’s orbit, and from satellite orbits.

Also from knowing the time it takes to orbit the sun and the distance to the sun.

If the Earth was hollow then some part of the shell would have to be incredibly dense – more so than you can get from ordinary matter.

Assuming that Newton’s theory works well when you are close to a massive body. There are a couple of reasons to doubt that this is so:

1. Earth-Moon Lagrange L1 is the gravitational balance point between the Earth and the moon where an object will not accelerate towards either body (also called the neutral point). The early theoretical value of around 24,000 miles doesn’t match the reported value of 43,495 miles.

“At a point 43,495 miles from the Moon, lunar gravity exerted a force equal to the gravity of the Earth, then some 200,000 miles distant.” – Wernher von Braun (Time Magazine, July 25, 1969.)

In the book Principles of Astronautics, written in 1965, a fellow of the British Interplanetary Society, . Vertregt, gave the calculated neutral point value as follows:

At a distance of 346000 km (215000 miles) from the Earth and 38000 km (23600 miles) from the Moon, at what is called the “neutral point” N, the attraction exerted by the Earth is equal to that exerted by the Moon.

http://www.exopolitics.org.uk/exodocumen…rogram.pdf

2. The theory didn’t agree with the facts when they dropped a couple of cables down a seriously long hole to measure gravitational effects:

http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/hollow/tamarack.htm

If there were holes at the poles? I assume there would be massive meteorological impacts but I’m not sure what.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2jq9uBmpO4
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January 30, 2015 9:52am
UglyTruth

Centrifugal force tends to make a fluid body expand (magma is a fluid)

Centrifugal force tends to make fluids shift their position, but it doesn’t make them expand.

Yes, the fluid part will compress if something stops it from expanding.

—

an expanding surface is perfectly consistent with the evidence that leads to the theory of continental drift for this planet

It’s difficult to see how it is consistent with anything.

The theory of continental drift says that the continents were once not separated and formed a supercontinent called Pangaea, since they fit together like a jigsaw puzzle and there are common features on either side of the initial rifts between the continents. In the expanding earth model, Pangaea was the entire surface of the planet, so it is consistent with the common features found near the initial rifts. Here’s a video which shows how the continents fit together in the expanding earth model:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kL7qDeI05U

—–

The evidence from seismology alone indicates that the Earth isn’t hollow.

The evidence is that seismic waves are reflected back from a spherical surface inside the planet, which is assumed to me a dense metallic core. Waves are reflected whenever there is an impedance mismatch between two regions, they will also be reflected from the inner surface of a hollow planet.

—-

When a fluid body rotates the center forms a void

No it doesn’t.

Yes it does.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxyfiBGCwhQ
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January 30, 2015 10:20am
Lucia Maria

The Church of England split from the RCC due to political differences, not differnet opinions about religious doctrine.

Ugly is correct on this.

To back this up, I recommend reading : The Stripping of the Altars by Eamon Duffy

and How the Reformation Happened by Hilaire Belloc
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February 2, 2015 6:56pm
Psycho Milt

I was about to write that “Space Station Footage of the North Pole Opening to Hollow Earth” has to be peak nutcase for Ugly Truth, but it started to feel over-optimistic…
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February 2, 2015 7:40pm

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