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January 17, 2015 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 17 January 2015

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waikatogirl

Inandout: waikatogirl: We naughty infidels refer to a certain appendage as ‘that bit of pork’, so I wonder what a Muslim calls it?

***
Thought about your question, thinking ‘Billygoat sausage’ for that part of the world. Happy with my own NZ’s hubby’s pork delight 🙂
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January 17, 2015 8:12pm
freemark

Jesus, we’re expected to watch 3 1/2 hours of wacko shit – 95% of which has been proved false, the other 5% completely irrelevant.
You have to be kidding..just look what that shit has done to your brain Reid (& your alias’s)
A couple of questions that may not challenge you so much.
Have you been to the ME/Israel?
Have you spent much time with Muslims from the area (or anywhere), or Jews, or Israelis?
Do you vote for Left of Centre Political Parties (or more left than Nats)?
Easy ones…
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January 17, 2015 8:12pm
Rowan

Nostra
Here’s a similar “dying and going to heaven” story
http://m.cbn.com/700club/features/amazing/donpiper_heaven051104.aspx

I’ve read the book and he definitely experienced the major car accident and had been pronounced dead, as to the rest of it who knows!
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January 17, 2015 8:16pm
SPC

nasska, google testimony of heaven and testimony of hell – a bottomless supply of tales from the internet.
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January 17, 2015 8:17pm
nasska

https://www.dropbox.com/s/bc7cgjoeriqh46m/Sheep%2027.jpg?dl=0
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January 17, 2015 8:22pm
Nostradamus

Thanks Rowan – that’s an interesting perspective.

I find the other story troublesome though – a father who ghost-writes a book in his six-year-old son’s name and benefits financially from a publication deal, regardless of the topic, shouldn’t be proud of his efforts.
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January 17, 2015 8:23pm
waikatogirl

Michael : Re religion.
So far as I am concerned there is no god , never was a god, and never will be a god.
If some people want to ridicule religions that is their right. Personally I wouldn’t bother.
***
Na religion is irrelevant to me to.

I think the thing nobody can get their head around is that any picture of the Islamic prophet is deem a blasphemy, odd that something so holy to them is never to be shown. While Christians are never happier with Christ displayed as often as possible
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January 17, 2015 8:24pm
Reid

Have you been to the ME/Israel?

No. Have you ever been to Iran? If not, then how do you “know” that its just twitching to nuke Israel the first chance it gets? (Because I suspect that’s precisely what you and some of the other assorted morons here think, isn’t it.)

Also how precisely does travelling through a country give you insight into how they act, geopolitically? They’re not the same thing at all and the fact you ask me that question makes me wonder if you even understand geopolitics 101, let alone the 801 discussions I normally raise here.

Have you spent much time with Muslims from the area (or anywhere), or Jews, or Israelis?

I’ve met both Jews and Muslims many times in my 50+ years. What does this question have to do with anything? (see above)

Do you vote for Left of Centre Political Parties (or more left than Nats)?

No I never have. Probably had I been a bit more mature in 1982? I would have voted for Douglas, but I wasn’t so I voted for what I always have bar on occasion, which is National. And the one occasion I didn’t I voted ACT, when I was living in Epsom, to get Rodney in.

But these questions SPC establish nothing about the current discussion other than the fact you’re using blunt stereotypes to understand my positions, which says a whole hell of a lot more about your own perspicacity and worldly understanding or lack of it, than it does about mine.
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January 17, 2015 8:25pm
nasska

I know what you mean SPC…..in my case Hell was full so I came back.

Now all I have to do is find a publisher & open a bank account. 🙂
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January 17, 2015 8:26pm
waikatogirl

Reid: Some people would prefer death to public speaking (i.e. being humiliated)
***
I can relate. Have you heard the theory that public speaking is innately petrifying because of all the eyes on you, like caveman times when being hunted by eyes in the dark watching it’s prey ! Sounds plausible and is comforting to know its just your brain playing tricks on you.
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January 17, 2015 8:37pm
SPC

Reid, “freemark” was hoping to identify something as “ignorant prejudice” and from a left winger, so he could ignore you and move on.

Now that you have claimed to be informed and confirmed you are no left winger, freemark will be bewildered, consider shaking the head before …
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January 17, 2015 8:38pm
Reid

Crikey.

I was checking how many downticks I’d got on my 8.09 and I accidentally reported myself for making an abusive comment.

Am I going to vanish in a puff of logic?

I can relate. Have you heard the theory that public speaking is innately petrifying because of all the eyes on you, like caveman times when being hunted by eyes in the dark watching it’s prey ! Sounds plausible and is comforting to know its just your brain playing tricks on you.

That’s probably why they recommend you picture the audience naked Waikatogirl.

It’s probably also why that advice doesn’t work particularly well with the female students.

Now that you have claimed to be informed and confirmed you are no left winger, freemark will be bewildered, consider shaking the head before …

Apologies SPC. Saturday night…
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January 17, 2015 8:38pm
Griff

Time to dust of the old ray gun and give im all a wake up Reid.
10,000,000mw should melt the point into them.
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January 17, 2015 8:38pm
freemark

“No. Have you ever been to Iran? If not, then how do you “know” that its just twitching to nuke Israel the first chance it gets? (Because I suspect that’s precisely what you and some of the other assorted morons here think, isn’t it.)” Really? I hadn’t given it too much thought, however I know that they are very keen to be a fully fledged member of the club..and what do you think they’d do with that power?
I think information about people’s background, experiences and political leanings can give some insight into why they think the way they do..not so much in your case apparently but thanks for answering.
Still leaves me even more perplexed though, so what about the other question, about 9/11 particularly.
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January 17, 2015 8:39pm
SPC

freemark, Reid is a Christian who thinks there is a “synagogue of Satan” that is behind todays Zionism. He believes in a related Luciferian conspiracy, it colours his perception on matters political.

Being suspicious of what the powerful are up to is not wrong, but to make it part of a conspiracy and one related to bible prophecy is more questionable.
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January 17, 2015 8:45pm
nasska

I’d forgotten about the ray gun Griff. Do you suppose our friend took it north with him when he relocated earlier this year? Perhaps it’s still hidden in the hills above Eastbourne waiting to be activated by remote control via UT’s decoder on Uranus.

The mystery, the humanity! Who will he fry first? 🙂
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January 17, 2015 8:46pm
Reid

Being suspicious of what the powerful are up to is not wrong, but to make it part of a conspiracy and one related to bible prophecy is more questionable.

Not if you know what I know SPC.

I think it’s important to keep an open mind. And I do.

But the world is working out precisely as I understand it.

The moment it doesn’t do that, I’ll reconsider and recalculate.

Until then…

so what about the other question, about 9/11 particularly.

Sorry I must have missed that Freemark, can you please repeat.
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January 17, 2015 8:52pm
Griff

I believe the mind frying experiment he preformed on red worked last time
poor red souperfried brain and still believes he is thinking .
its really just a few random synapses still echoing the rays effects.
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January 17, 2015 8:52pm
waikatogirl

Reid: So what if 9/11 is just what it appears – a bunch of radical Muslim Terrorists controlled by Bin Laden, hijacking aircraft and flying them into targets. It’s pretty feasible.

**
Most times what you see with your own eyes is what actually happened unless you are looking for a alternative.
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January 17, 2015 8:55pm
SPC

The global market has made materialist consumers of us all.

Once Israel has a ray gun, Iran will want one – everyone covets what everyone else has.

Already we have Jews in Israel importing veils from Jordan, and women behind the estate walls in Teheran who parade around in their swimsuits bought on-line from that Tel Aviv outlet.
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January 17, 2015 8:58pm
Reid

Reid: So what if 9/11 is just what it appears – a bunch of radical Muslim Terrorists controlled by Bin Laden, hiacking aircraft and flying them into targets. It’s pretty feasible.

That’s not the issue waikatogirl. It’s the way the towers collapsed, it’s the way the Pentagram was hit (BTW in the precise place which contained the team investigating the missing 2.1 trillion that Rumsfeld had announced the day before), the way the Pennyslvania crash played out.

There are thousands and thousands and thousands of happy coincidences that all have to come together for the official story to mesh.

The issue is, most people can’t believe their own govts lied to them about this epoch event. That prevents their analysis.

I’d be the happiest person in the world if what I know turned out to be complete bollocks. Seriously, I would.

However, I’m not prepared in anyway to be played like a violin, and unless and until all the questions I and millions of other people have about these events are fully explicated, I’ll remain where I am. And I’m talking about thousands of them. Throughout history. Do you REALLY know what happened to JFK for example: who, why, how? That’s just an example.
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January 17, 2015 9:00pm
waikatogirl

It’s probably also why that advice doesn’t work particularly well with the female students.
***
True, visualizing naked hasn’t worked for me. Knowing that you are not using ALL your brain for the speech as lots of it is feaking out is something to keep in mind too.
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January 17, 2015 9:07pm
nasska

Your logic has beaten them into submission Reid.

Victory is in sight! 🙂
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January 17, 2015 9:08pm
Richard II

Richard II (what happened to Richard I by the way?):

I think there’s a fundamental distinction between the two scenarios I mentioned:

– In this case, as far as I’m aware, Cameron Brewer didn’t approach the media about Labour’s advertisement for a Press Secretary – TV3 approached him.

– That contrasts quite starkly with the other scenario I mentioned (where concerned citizens, who happen to be concerned about something National is doing and who just so happen to have undisclosed links to Labour, approach the media).

So I was actually addressing a slightly different issue than the one you’ve raised.

However, in terms of the issue you’ve raised, I think political affiliations should be disclosed where they’re directly relevant to the story. Now there are practical issues with that – so, for example, a three-minute news item obviously can’t go into the political affiliations of everyone featured, and in any many cases those political affiliations will either be self-evident or not directly relevant anyway.

In this case, Labour is quite properly the focus of the story – they issued the job advertisement. And Matt McCarten made sure it was even more of a news story by saying silly things like a reference to the 6pm news was a “throwaway comment” designed to show the aim was to be proactive, not just reactive, in the news. What was that reference to the news? The successful applicant is expected to ensure Little appears “in a positive story on the 6pm news at least twice a week”.

Now I don’t know why TV3 approached Cameron Brewer, but who would you suggest that they should have interviewed instead?

Nostradamus

Haha. Having asked a simple question about disclosure of political affiliation when commenting in the media, ie yes or no, there comes from you a re-framing of the argument, namely who approached who? And too, a detailed breakdown of the anti-opposition news item in question, but no breakdown of the anti-government news item in question.

What you appear to be now saying is that it’s fine for non disclosure if the media approach the commentator, but disclosure is crucial if the commentator approaches the media.

Where this leaves ordinary New Zealanders approaching their local or national representatives for help on a particular issue, I do not know. The local or national representative is bound to help via the media if necessary and therefore, according to you, must make sure the media outlet states their position.

That’s what you, and David Farrar, want and that is fine, but what about the seeding of stories by bloggers like Slater and Farrar, and PR hitmen like Graham and Odgers? These people are well documented (in a best-selling book by Nicky Hager, no less) as having seeded the media, ie, approached the media about particular stories damaging to the current opposition, yet these stories are run without any reference to the political impetus behind them.

What you appear to be saying is that the ordinary public must not criticise the government without declaring their position but affiliates of the government are able to criticise the opposition without declaring their position.

PS, I started posting as Richard, but there is another Richard here who did not want to be confused with me. He asked for me to change my handle, so I did.

I’m polite like that.
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January 17, 2015 9:09pm
Reid

Knowing that you are not using ALL your brain for the speech as lots of it is feaking out is something to keep in mind too.

Personally I tell myself I know more about the subject than anyone else in the room and I’m a great storyteller.

Whether or not its true that normally works.

Victory is in sight!

They’re probably just getting another beer nasska. It’s not fair.
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January 17, 2015 9:10pm
freemark

“Reid: So what if 9/11 is just what it appears – a bunch of radical Muslim Terrorists controlled by Bin Laden, hiacking aircraft and flying them into targets. It’s pretty feasible.

That’s not the issue waikatogirl. It’s the way the towers collapsed, it’s the way the Pentagram was hit (BTW in the precise place which contained the team investigating the missing 2.1 trillion that Rumsfeld had announced the day before), the way the Pennyslvania crash played out”

So I’ve seen all these theories/accusations/fantasies..and sorry to repeat myself but I’ve seen from many independent and credible sources absolute refuting of them, and re-enactments, multiple witness statements, physical evidence..the list goes on.
Do you ignore all of this?
You need to consider the concept of the “official story” and see what it does to your views. That’s science, and truth – considering possible scenarios and assessing other issues from there. You know, what you expect everyone else to do then label them as ignorant, or blind, or sheep if they don’t even investigate it.
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January 17, 2015 9:11pm
freemark

@ Richard II
So do you think the MSM should disclose their Political leanings as part of every story, interview, report, puff-piece?
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January 17, 2015 9:14pm
SPC

Reid, “I’d be the happiest person in the world if what I know turned out to be complete bollocks” – I doubt it. If what you know is in fact complete bollocks, then your capacity to know anything must be in question.
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January 17, 2015 9:15pm
waikatogirl

Apologies to those who downticked my 8.12 reply. Short on harmless sense of humor though!

I’d had 2 glasses of wine with the yummy Thai dinner out with my husband. Truly lovely not having to cook, and thorough enjoyed :).
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January 17, 2015 9:24pm
Reid

I doubt it. If what you know is in fact complete bollocks, then your capacity to know anything must be in question.

No because what you and the other sheeple don’t seem to get SPC is that I know everything that you all do geopolitically because I used to, back in the 1980’s, view the world exactly the same as you do. But since then I have educated myself in ways that you haven’t, and this education like all education, has not destroyed what I already knew, its added to it.

Your loss, not mine. It’s freely available, but you need to open your mind, that’s the prerequisite. And that’s BTW not easy and its not simple and easy and you can’t learn how to do that in five minutes, which is why most people give up if they even try to in the first place.

But I’ve previously explained how to do it. And if you chose not to, like I said, your loss, not mine.
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January 17, 2015 9:27pm
Richard II

@ Richard II
So do you think the MSM should disclose their Political leanings as part of every story, interview, report, puff-piece?

freemark

No, and that is not what I said anyway. I said nothing about the political leanings of MSM outlets, and if you bothered to read the comment you would understand that.

Nostradamus and David Farrar want approaches to the media by Labour affiliates to be recorded as such by the media outlets which publish them but seemingly do not have an issue with Farrar himself and his sidekick Slater seeding (approaching via the back door) the MSM with anti-opposition stories, the authors of which remain undisclosed.
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January 17, 2015 9:39pm
SPC

Reid, you still do not know what you do not know. You only now know what you did not know in the 1980’s.

And to the extent that coming to know what you did not know, changes what one knows, how can one say that what one knows now is truth?
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January 17, 2015 9:43pm
freemark

@ Richard II
But “Farrar himself and his sidekick Slater” are open about their affiliations or leanings. Why should the consumers of MSM not be made aware of the affiliations & leanings of the messengers, let alone those of the paid employees of the State via the Labour Party?
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January 17, 2015 9:56pm
Reid

to the extent that coming to know what you did not know, changes what one knows, how can one say that what one knows now is truth?

To the extent it predicts the future SPC.

Haven’t you been listening to what EAD and I and others have been warning people of on the economic front, for example?
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January 17, 2015 10:00pm
Nostradamus

Richard II:

Your 9:09pm comment wasn’t a constructive contribution to the debate.

Haha. Having asked a simple question about disclosure of political affiliation when commenting in the media, ie yes or no, there comes from you a re-framing of the argument, namely who approached who? And too, a detailed breakdown of the anti-opposition news item in question, but no breakdown of the anti-government news item in question.

Actually, no, I haven’t reframed the argument. I was making the point that you’d misinterpreted my previous comment. You go on to set up a false dichotomy between a breakdown of the “anti-opposition news item” and “the anti-government news item” – which tells me that you still haven’t understood my previous comment.

What you appear to be now saying is that it’s fine for non disclosure if the media approach the commentator, but disclosure is crucial if the commentator approaches the media.

No, Richard, I didn’t express myself in such absolute terms. Hint: think about the distinction (in “the commentator approaches the media” scenario) between a political activist and an ordinary member of the public. See Freemarks’ 9:56pm comment – he understands this distinction.

What you appear to be saying is that the ordinary public must not criticise the government without declaring their position but affiliates of the government are able to criticise the opposition without declaring their position.

I’ll let you express your own views, Richard, and I’d be grateful if you could allow me to express my views – without feeling the need to “interpret” them on incorrect premises.

Oh – and one more thing Richard – my previous question remains unanswered: who do you think TV3 should have interviewed about Labour’s advertisement for a Press Secretary?
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January 17, 2015 10:02pm
Reid

Nostradamus and David Farrar want approaches to the media by Labour affiliates to be recorded as such by the media outlets which publish them but seemingly do not have an issue with Farrar himself and his sidekick Slater seeding (approaching via the back door) the MSM with anti-opposition stories, the authors of which remain undisclosed.

You mean just precisely like Hulun used to do Richard?

How come it’s ok for Liarbore to do it but…???

Four legs good, two legs bad?

BTW lest you misunderstand given Orwell wasn’t a commie but you guys mostly are, or act like them, that’s not a good thing.
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January 17, 2015 10:07pm
RichardX

Reid (17,017 comments) says:
January 17th, 2015 at 10:00 pm
To the extent it predicts the future SPC.
Haven’t you been listening to what EAD and I and others have been warning people of on the economic front, for example?

Are you referring to your predictions of December 2013?
That effort was a pile of shit

Reid (17,017 comments) says:
December 17th, 2013 at 6:42 pm
Some may have noted the graph I posted a week ago that charted the confluence between this rally and that which happened just before October 1929. Almost an exact match. The date if it continued following the same trend for the big crash was Jan 14 2014. I don’t think it will be then, but it’s not far away.
Get ready.

Reid (15,306 comments) says:
December 20th, 2013 at 9:24 am
Those who have read history and know that it repeats only when you forget it, will have noted the confluence between the market in 1929 and today – almost an exact match. For in 1929 there was a downturn then a recovery before the final big crash, precisely what has happened today. And if you overlay the charts, the date of the crash today will be 14 Jan 2014. One doubts it will be that particular date of course, the smart money is divided over when it will be, but they’re all saying its coming in 2014. Will it be Q1? Who knows. But when it does, our recovery along with every other country will be heavily affected. Plan for it and note that this time, unlike 1929, there will be no US recovery, they have nothing with which to base the recovery on. Plus debt is much much greater now than it was back then, for everyone. Most people will lose all their retirement savings, try not to be one of those.
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January 18, 2015 12:45am

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