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January 14, 2015 9:00am by Kokila Patel

Latest Charlie Hebdo Front Cover

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International Politics
Charlie Hebdo

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Mike

Translation: “All is forgiven”.
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January 14, 2015 9:06am
Mike

How are people reading this? It is difficult to read satire in a different language, but i have two possible takes:

1. Charlie is putting the tragedy to rest and moving on (so the commentary is one from Charlie to the muslim community, or specifically the radical elements of it)
2. It is an ironic acknowledgement of the moderate muslim community (the premise being that they were previously outraged over the depictions of their prophet, but in light of the tragedy, have forgiven Charlie). This narrative would fit in with the prophet looking upset and holding the sign that is supportive of charlie.

All in all, this is a very soft cover in comparison to their previous editions, but it is still a depiction of the prophet. It is a clever positioning, they move away from the highly inflammatory material (e.g the naked depictions), but stick to their principle with regard to their choice to portray the prophet in picture form. Some readers would view this as a concession to the radicals (given the moderation), others would view it as a cover that is a middle finger to them (given that the prophet is depicted again).
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January 14, 2015 9:09am
simpleton1

A tear, (“like blood from a stone”) from that “perfect man”, “yeah right”
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January 14, 2015 9:10am
Mike

For clarity, my first comment is a literal translation of the text in the image. It is not a statement by me (as one reader seems to think).
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January 14, 2015 9:16am
EAD

Notice the tacit agreement by the stooge media that,
a) there is such a thing as a ‘prophet’ and
b) that his name is Mohammed.

Fairfax lead by saying:
“Charlie Hebdo will publish a front page showing a caricature of the Prophet Mohammad”
http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/europe/64924570/charlie-hebdo-to-publish-mohammad-cartoon-on-front-page

Acknowledgement is one step toward acceptance which is a step closer to subservience and which is a hop skip and a jump away from the holy grail of Islam which is submission(peace).

Notice the special treatment for islam, the stooge media doesn’t call Jesus our Lord and saviour Jesus, or Jesus the son of God. To the stooge media is plain old Jesus.

Well here is a message to our stooge media and political elite – take a hike, he ain’t a prophet, just a murdering pedophile!
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January 14, 2015 9:19am
Mike

You may be on to something there EAD, but i personally never considered the word “prophet” to be a term of respect, rather considering it to refer to a person who proclaims them self to deliver a divine message. It’s possible that it precedes Muhammad, and not Jesus, given the commonality of the former name (so as to act as a tool to provide context). It’s also possible that one religion is being favored over the other. Interesting observation on your part.
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January 14, 2015 9:25am
redqueen

@EAD

How the world has changed. But it will be undone soon, as I don’t think people will accept this corrosive ‘progressivism’ forever. My concern, to be honest, is what the backlash will look like. Having gone so far to one extreme, people may accept the ‘alternative’, with no real interest in returning to what was once called a liberal society, in the Charles Napier sense of the term.
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January 14, 2015 9:27am
Harriet

I’m the one who first posted the 2% islamic immigration comment and link a year or so ago.
Here is probably the next best thing I’ve read on Islam – and I’ve read more than a few things on it:

Islam’s Fatal Flaw: Mohammad was the perfect human. 😎

“……The fact he was a murderer, mugger, rapist, child pedophile and thief is ignored. The inability of Muslims to talk about this rationality is responsible for the erratic behavior Muslims sometimes exhibit.

The Violence:

Within Islam, each generation’s most devout believers train a small percentage of the next generation’s most devout believers that it is OK to commit violence in the name of Islam.
It is easy to understand how a person living in Montana could comfortably wear a Mohammad cartoon T-shirt. There are few, if any, Muslims in Montana. The chance of being spotted by one of these Islamic killers is slim. As a result, most people would not be intimidated.
The Islamic fear factor in Montana – low.
Dearborn Michigan – medium.
London – high.
Finally, let’s imagine the fear you would feel in a nearly 100% Muslim society:
Mecca, Cairo, or Tehran – exceptionally high.

The most important thing to remember about this Mohammad cartoon T-shirt discussion is this:

What exactly is it that causes this fear? The answer is this:

There is a real fear that some deeply devout Muslim believer will come from out of nowhere and kill you.

The Fear:

This inability to talk critically about Islam inside Islamic society is one of the main reasons why Islam is stuck in its endless cycle of violence. Muslims can clearly see the violence surrounding them. But they know all too well, any critical discussion on the issue might draw the attention of a killer like Mohammed Bouyeri. As a result most Muslims live in fear of a system that keeps them quiet. Inside a system they have no control of.

Inside Muslim society, their primary task is to keep Islam alive. They do this by killing anyone who (1) insults Allah or (2) insults Mohammad or (3) questions or tries to change Islam, or (4) tries to leave the faith.

In those places where Islamic society comes into contact with non-Muslim society, such as the situation now in Western Europe, one of their primary tasks is to make sure Muslims do not assimilate into their host society. Their tasks include terrorizing non-Muslims into conversion to Islam or acceptance of Islamic Sharia law. This terrorization can take the form of criminal behavior or, a constant low-grade gorilla war like conflict. Examples of the latter are Kashmir, the Balkans, Thailand, the Philippines, sub Sahara Africa, and now even Western Europe.

This system even finds a way to harness the destructive power of its young male social misfits. They can practice their destructive ways on non-Muslims in the form of rapes, muggings, and general mayhem and receive positive feedback from the most devout. This is why Western European jails have such a high percentage of Muslim inmates.

The killers are overwhelmingly young and male. They come from all economic and educational strata. Poverty is not a cause, but does work to the advantage of devout believers looking for new “recruits”.

The Mosques:

One of Islam’s strangest phenomena is as follows. These mosques become dangerous intellectual cesspools of Islam think. Only the most devout believers work their way into leadership positions. These people are the most likely to believe Islamic calls to violence. The inability to rationalize anything about Islam is at its height inside the mosques.

The mosques act as constant reminder of Islam’s presence with their call to prayer five times a day. The Mullahs act as a center point to most devout believers and sympathizers. The mullahs’ position is to reinforce Islamic dogma and encourage devout believers to ensure it is upheld.

So now we have a beginning idea of what the Islamic violence & fear is, let’s move on and discuss who these Islamic killers are:

Islamic Killers:

Once a child reaches school age the training becomes institutionalized. This starts at the lowest grades and continues throughout all of a child’s education.

Within the educational system, the devout believers and sympathizers again make their presence felt. Anyone trying to moderate the teaching of Islamic materials, risks the wrath of an unseen killer.

By the time children become adults, a small percent become their own generation’s most devout believers, and about 20% become the sympathizers. Because this educational system is spread evenly throughout Islam, these devout believers and sympathizers are, as pointed out earlier, spread everywhere.

And the violence/fear cycle continues…..”

http://islamsfatalflaw.blogspot.gr/
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January 14, 2015 9:30am
EAD

Notice the tone Mike

reverential respect for Mohammad as of course “you wouldn’t want to offend”
vs.
at best apathy towards anything Christian or more likely outright mocking and taking the piss:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/8090143/Church-billboard-Was-Jesus-gay
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/belief/2011/apr/04/jesus-gay-man-codices
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/dec/23/jesus-christ-not-born-in-stable-theologian-new-testament

(yeah yeah I know the last 2 are the Guardian but look what they say about showing the cartoons – it gives a warning “this article contains the image of the magazine cover, which some may find offensive”

http://www.theguardian.com/media/2015/jan/13/charlie-hebdo-cover-magazine-prophet-muhammad

The difference being of course that a Christian wouldn’t storm a office with Kalashnikovs firing for insinuating Jesus is gay whereas if you published the cartoon, you are deemed to have committed an “act of war” in the eyes of Islam:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/11342210/UK-shops-to-receive-Charlie-Hebdo-magazine-despite-radical-cleric-calling-it-an-act-of-war.html
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January 14, 2015 9:30am
Huevon

To be honest, I’m conflicted about this. On the one hand, I think that Islam, for the most part, is a vile religion and is the biggest threat to peace and security in Western countries (including NZ). If any Western leader announced the expulsion of all Muslims from their country, my response would probably be “well, how about that. Now, let me help you show them the exit”.

But, then, I am a Christian and I have a sense of what blasphemy actually means. It has nothing to do with “causing offence” or insulting whatever is the particular shibboleth of a particular identity group (as so many liberals seem to believe). Fundamentally, blasphemy is an act of *ingratitude*. If you believe in God, then you know that He created our world in an act of self-giving love and the only right response from us is thanks and praise. I don’t think that freedom of expression means “freedom to offend” and must be defended to the death. That is just sanctimonious nonsense. Despite what I personally think about Islam, I know that, for Muslims, the prophet Mohammad is the man who brought God to the people and he should be accorded a level of respect on that basis. So, I don’t support publishing these cartoons.

(And just to be clear, this is the same reason why I think Te Papa shouldn’t have displayed the Virgin in a condom and that odious Anglican priest at St Matthews in the City should drop his ridiculous billboards).
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January 14, 2015 9:31am
ben

1. The prophet had to be on the cover. Anything else would be seen as capitulation.

2. They could have been as rude as they liked about the prophet, who could blame them, but they weren’t. Given 1, this is about as respectful as possible. This is them taking the high ground.

3. As their first response, they include the word forgiven. Perhaps they are going for irony. But what I think they are saying to Muslims: if you use this event to declare yourself for freedom and against murder, even for blasphemy, then the world will be better and we can all move on.

Overall it is I think a high class response, and thought provoking. I hope they print it in NZ.
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January 14, 2015 9:33am
Jack5

Huevon thoughtfully concludes in a post at 9.31:

So, I don’t support publishing these cartoons.

But does he or she support the right of others to publish them – particularly in a Western society with traditions of intellectual freedom? Would Huevon ban publication?
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January 14, 2015 9:35am
ChardonnayGuy

Could I note that one of my workmates is a Pakistani Muslim female doctor and one of her own uncles was murdered by Pakistan’s version of the Taliban? Her reaction to what happened in Paris has been to throw things at her television set and profess rage ,disgust and abhorrence that the gunmen *dared* to think that the Prophet Muhammed or Allah sanctioned that terrorism and mass murder. Although it’s a cultural taboo to actually depict Muhammed, she does quite like the cartoons that show ordinary, decent Muslim contempt and anger at the murder done in the name of what they hold most sacred. Lest we forget, one Muslim supermarket worker protected others from the gunmen and one of the police officers killed by the terrorists was also Muslim. The Federation of Islamic Associations of New Zealand has also unequivocally condemned the Paris atrocities.

I’m getting awfully tired of simplistic populist drivel on both sides of this debate. No, what happened in Paris was not some “anti-imperialist” act of “popular justice,” it was mass murder. But also: No, not all Muslims condone or excuse what happened in Paris either. As my Muslim friend said to me, the greater blasphemy against Islam was committed by those gunmen and consisted of their brutal murderous act.
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January 14, 2015 9:36am
ben

1. Charlie is putting the tragedy to rest and moving on (so the commentary is one from Charlie to the muslim community, or specifically the radical elements of it)

I think they’re putting it to rest conditional on muslims holding a je suis Charlie sign i.e. respecting the right of others to disagree. No sign, no forgiveness.
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January 14, 2015 9:36am
Steve Wrathall

I want to make a special point of buying the English edition of this , but can’t find a link anywhere. Anyone can help?
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January 14, 2015 9:41am
ChardonnayGuy

Could I also note that given heavy state censorship in Russia, we know next to nothing about what the Russians got up to in Chechnya? It’s interesting that Putin’s security forces assassinated one courageous Russian female journalist that got too close to the truth. Added to which, might I also note that some of the more Islamophobic contributors to this thread have some curious historical amnesia about what happened to Kosovo and Bosnia’s Muslims during the nineties? At the hands of Serbian Orthodox Christians? Does the name Slobodan Milosevic ring any bells? And yes, I did support NATO intervention at that time, precisely because it was intended to stop genocide, ethnic cleansing and religious persecution. What I’m saying is that the Paris tragedy had an international and historical context which should not be forgotten.
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January 14, 2015 9:46am
Kimbo

@ Mike

How are people reading this? It is difficult to read satire in a different language

I take it to mean Mohammed is publicly stating to Charlie Hedbo so that all, both Muslims and non-Muslims can see and understand, that whatever offence they committed against him and his religion is forgiven. The reason is that the offence Charlie Hedbo committed was so trivial compared to the atrocity wrongly inflicted upon them in his name. Which is why he is saying “forgiven” in the supposedly “offensive” form of a cartoon.

That I take to be the intended message of the satirist. Do I have to point out that I don’t necessarily agree with the satirist’s interpretation, particularly that Mohammed would say such a thing?

Just saying…
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January 14, 2015 9:47am
Jack5

ChardonnayGuy at 9.36 more or less dissociates mainstream Islam from any responsibility for the Paris terrorism. Not convincing.

ChardonnayGuy, would this terrorism have occurred if there were not a large Muslim population in France? Would Islamic terrorist suicide bombing be rife without the religion’s promise of a paradise with such strange (to Westerners) rewards as a bevy of virgins for perpetual deflowerment in return for death for the faith?

ChardonnayGuy’s argument is a bit like the way the German Army sometimes dissociated itself from the atrocities in Eastern Europe and Russia – “it was the SS”.

And some in the SS dissociated themselves:”we were in the Waffen SS (the fighting divisions).”
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January 14, 2015 9:52am
EAD

@ Chardonnay Guy,

If you read my posts, my anger is reserved for the media and politicians who are creating this unfolding tragedy.

It is actually true what the liberals say that 98% of Muslims just want to get on with their lives like he rest of us. It is the politicians and media who are creating this toxic atmosphere by encouraging huge levels of immigration and adopting a policy (multiculturalism ) that prevents assimilation into a settled, peaceful society and deliberately changes the culture which is a travesty (I’m being polite) as one assumes that anyone coming here would be wanting to participate in society rather than set up parallel world’s.

Then the political elites and their stooge media collude to stifle free speech so as to avoid debate on policies which nobody voted for yet we all suffer the consequences of.

In some people’s books, acting against the interests of your citizens is called treason.
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January 14, 2015 9:54am
simpleton1

Huevon,
Jesus Christ in his life, like his doings on the sabbath, and his sayings and preachings, held up a mirror/cartoon to the Pharisees, and to many of the old testament laws and ways. It drove them crazy ! !
It was the Pharisees that drove through their laws and pushed Roman law to have Jesus criminalized and ultimately to be put down.

Though freedom of expression was driven underground, by the Jews it could not be silenced by the stonings.

On going debates, discussions, and though suppression sometimes happened, at the point of a sword/gun and sometimes, very regrettably blood shed used to terrorize, still ideas, words, and expressions continued on, shaping our world today.

Long may it continue, even sometimes at my own discomfiture, and even if I become angry and feel provoked, to then consider, and also to look for strong counter arguements, if I believe I have a case.
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January 14, 2015 9:56am
Jack5

ChardonnayGuy posted at 9.476:

I also note that some of the more Islamophobic contributors to this thread have some curious historical amnesia about what happened to Kosovo and Bosnia’s Muslims during the nineties? At the hands of Serbian Orthodox Christians? Does the name Slobodan Milosevic ring any bells?

NATO, mainly of Western countries (I think Turkey stopped that, but I’m not sure it took part in these operations), brought that to a halt.

It’s worth remembering that in Kosovo, the Muslims also slaughtered Serb civilians, and there were also atrocities against Serbs and Croats in Bosnia. I seem to recall that some Muslim extremist groups of the Al Qaeda type took part in brutalities against Serb women.

Does ChardonnayGuy have his “historic amnesia” about this?
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January 14, 2015 9:59am
Redbaiter

Chardonnay Guy- shut up with your non stop smokescreening of Muslims. Sure many of them are against what happened in Paris and other places but all of them are participating in the Muslim colonisation of the West. ]

There are “no go” places you idiot. Large areas of the UK and France where the non-Muslim population is unwelcome. They were not there fifty years ago. That is something that your pathetic submissive apologetic posture apparently cannot deal with.

How about facing up to that reality. Muslims are deliberately colonising the west.
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January 14, 2015 9:59am
Harriet

Charlie Hebdo was an enemy of Western civilization. But while this isn’t as bad as a fifth column in your midst, a platoon that indiscriminately sprays bullets at everybody, its own side as well as the enemy, isn’t exactly helping.

CH showed “nuns masturbating and popes wearing condoms,” and had also attacked the French government, which is pretty much socialist no matter who is in charge. We might ask such people, is there any good in the world at all? Or are you the only good extant?

Question: Did the people at CH ever oppose the Muslim immigration into France that, ultimately, led to their deaths?

Maybe I’m wrong, but I’m willing to go out on a limb and guess they didn’t, that they were rather more inclined to call those who did inveigh against it “racists,” xenophobes and intolerant bigots. And this certainly was reflected in an interview CH cartoonist Bernard Holtrop gave to a Dutch newspaper Saturday. He didn’t say much, it seems, but amidst his few words he made sure to express his dissatisfaction with the fact that the CH attack will help Marine Le Pen’s National Front, the only prominent French party questioning the nation’s immigration model.

This typical leftist hatred was reflected by CH’s Holtrop, who responded to the outpouring of support for his mag rag by dismissively saying“We have a lot of new friends, like the pope, Queen Elizabeth and [Russian President Vladimir] Putin. It really makes me laugh …We vomit on all these people who suddenly say they are our friends.”

But Holtrop and his comrades had been vomiting on Western civilization for years. The Charlie caricatures were juvenile, loaded with bathroom humor, and not at all smart. There were many cartoons that I felt were just offensive — not just to Muslims, but to me as well.

In typical liberal style, its artists mistook profanity for profundity, cynicism for sagacity and insult for intellectualism. It’s reminiscent of the women who strip naked to protest; even if their causes were just — which they invariably aren’t — what does it prove? Could you imagine George Washington, or maybe wife Martha, having bared it all to protest the British? With that mentality, would there ever have been a positive and successful American Revolution?

But I’ll tell you what it proves:

that we’ve had a successful Western devolution. It proves that Frankfurt School founder Willi Munzenberg wasn’t kidding when he said that to impose the dictatorship of the proletariat, they would “make the West so corrupt it stinks.” This putrefaction is now well advanced, and CH was part of this decay.

To paraphrase Roman philosopher Cicero, “an enemy at the gates carrying his banner openly is less formidable than those within the gates who rot the soul of a nation, work secretly in the night to undermine the pillars of the society, and infect the body politic so that it can no longer resist.”

And I totally agree with all that.

Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2015/01/je_ne_suis_pas_charlie_im_sane.html#ixzz3OjkGj6r3
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January 14, 2015 10:02am
kowtow

Charlie is not Charlie.

I posted this on GD last night, an item from the UK DT in 2009. They sacked a cartoonist for alleged anti semitism. Guy was put on trial for race crime. Pollies and pundits are claiming France has free speech but in fact it is very repressive.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/4351672/French-cartoonist-Sine-on-trial-on-charges-of-anti-Semitism-over-Sarkozy-jibe.html
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January 14, 2015 10:16am
Jack5

Meanwhile, in Britain, a former MI5 man calls for tighter security provisions:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-in-the-uk/11343802/Britain-will-descend-into-vigilantism-unless-security-measures-are-stepped-up-former-MI5-boss-warns.html
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January 14, 2015 10:27am
kowtow

Turkish PM shows true Muslim colours. I wish people would stop using Turkey as an example of a “secular” Muslim country, there’s no such thing.And then there’s politicians in Europe who want Turkish membership of the EU, Camoron one of them!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2908358/Turkish-president-accuses-West-Charlie-Hebdo-attacks-deliberately-blaming-Muslims-conspiracy-theories-sweep-Internet-accusing-Israel-orchestrating-it.html
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January 14, 2015 10:29am
Kimbo

@ Mike

How are people reading this? It is difficult to read satire in a different language, but i have two possible takes:

1. Charlie is putting the tragedy to rest and moving on (so the commentary is one from Charlie to the muslim community, or specifically the radical elements of it)
2. It is an ironic acknowledgement of the moderate muslim community (the premise being that they were previously outraged over the depictions of their prophet, but in light of the tragedy, have forgiven Charlie). This narrative would fit in with the prophet looking upset and holding the sign that is supportive of charlie.

All in all, this is a very soft cover in comparison to their previous editions, but it is still a depiction of the prophet. It is a clever positioning, they move away from the highly inflammatory material (e.g the naked depictions), but stick to their principle with regard to their choice to portray the prophet in picture form. Some readers would view this as a concession to the radicals (given the moderation), others would view it as a cover that is a middle finger to them (given that the prophet is depicted again).

Actually, on second thought I think it is as you suggested in part of your first and most of your second take: it is Charlie Hedbo saying “Forgiven” to a grief-stricken Muhammed (and by definition to his followers), as he would never condone such attrocities in his name. Hence he adopts the supposedly offensive form of a cartoon to say so. So Charlie Hedbo is stating to the “true” Muslim community, “we don’t hold you responsible for the deaths”.

And again, I DON’T agree with the viewpoint of the satirist that this reflects what Muhammed would do, although as it was done in response to the death of 12 colleagues, s/he is entitled to make whatever assumptions they like regarding the “true” teachings of Islam.
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January 14, 2015 10:31am
Padriv Ustoev

I find this cartoon very disrespectful, I will be reporting you Mr David to the that badminton player that is the Race Commissioner in this country. You are inciting hatred and must be stopped from publishing cartoons such as this.
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January 14, 2015 10:35am
Redbaiter

Hey Chardonnay Guy, here’s an interesting graphic just for you.

The train wreck we can’t wait to see.
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January 14, 2015 10:42am
Jack5

By the way, three cheers for DPF for posting the Charlie Ebdo cover here on Kiwiblog.
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January 14, 2015 10:42am
Jack5

Oh fuck! Padriv the pisstaker surfaces (10.15).

Still I guess a bit of satire and fun is a good way to give the fingers to the terrorists and the namby-pamby liberals who buffer them.

Nice one Padriv. Dame Devoid will have your name on file, though.
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January 14, 2015 10:44am
UglyTruth

When the meaning is ambiguous the interpretation is against then interests of the one with whom the idea originates (contra proferentem).

In context, in the cartoon the Muslim guy (symbolising Muslims is general) is sorry for the (apparent) loss of life and has forgiven Charlie Hebdo for his offensive and inflammatory material, and now has aligned himself with the political cause of freedom of expression.

This is offensive on a number of levels, both to Muslims and to people who don’t feed off the bullshit served up by the MSM (eg the recent NAACP bombing hoax).

Firstly, the Hebdo terrorism fits a pattern of false flags carried out in response to political support for Palestinians, i.e Anders Breivik (Norway) and the loss of three Malaysian passenger aircraft. The cartoon portrays Muslims are idiots who unquestioningly swallow the MSM narrative without considering the historical context.

Secondly, “Je suis Charlie” means I am or I follow Charlie, Charlie being an English term for an idiot or a simpleton, so again the cartoon portrays Muslims as idiots.

Thirdly, freedom of expression has been used by Charlie Hebdo as cover for inciting Muslim animosity towards France, a notably evil act within the context of France’s involvement in Algeria and military support of terrorists, so in summary the cartoon portrays Muslims as idiots who don’t see the hand of evil being played by French socialism.

So fuck Charlie Hebdo and may his supporters suffer shame and dishonour.
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January 14, 2015 11:02am
Jack5

Re Kowtow at 10.29 on Turkey.

Turkey’s an interesting case. It was made a secular state in the 1920s, and the present leadership is trying to reverse this. If Turkey proves unable to modernise Islam it’s likely to be incapable of being modernised.

One of the most interesting aspects in Turkey has been the ban on female head scarves from public places and universities. You can read about it here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Headscarf_controversy_in_Turkey
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January 14, 2015 11:06am
Kimbo

@ UglyTruth

So fuck Charlie Hebdo and may his supporters suffer shame and dishonour.

Well, you nailed the “Ugly” part of your moniker. Or is it Derek Fox?
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January 14, 2015 11:08am
kowtow

jack5

Turkey has never really been a secular state. The Young Turks including Saint Kemal Ataturk were complicit in anti Christian genocide.All they did was replace the caliphate with their own version of it. They employ the clerics there, they impose state approved history teachers on minority schools etc Christians need “permission ” to open churches.

There is a quote somewhere of Ataturks that a “true” Turk is a sunni turkish male ( I can’t find it) but did come across it many years ago. That excludes the Greeks, Armenians Kurds and other non sunni Muslims.
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January 14, 2015 11:19am
kowtow

There’s a very definite effort out there in nth MSM to overplay only one of the police deaths in Paris. Only one is a hero, the other two are virtually ignored, guess which one gets all the cover?

Why?
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January 14, 2015 11:21am
Scott Hamilton

‘Charlies Hebdo is an enemy of Western civilisation’

That might be true, if we equate Western civilisation with religious and political authority; but if we consider Western civilisation not in terms of powerful institutions but in terms of reason and argument and art, then we need only look to the ancient Greeks to find parallels with Charlie Hebdo’s satire. In their different ways, Socrates and Aristophanes and Diogenes ridiculed the gods of their own society as relentlessly as Charlie Hebdo has attacked the religions of the twenty-first century. It’s sad that, two and a half thousand years after Aristophanes made his audiences laugh by putting the god Dionysus onstage in a ridiculous costume of buskin boots, a saffron cloak, and a lion skin, we spend so much time worrying about the insecurities of religious fundamentalists.
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January 14, 2015 11:44am
deadrightkev

The spineless NZ Herald has not printed the cartoon, instead chose to repeat “as usual” various benign generic articles of little interest.

What a total waste of time that pro UN rag has become.
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January 14, 2015 11:50am
greenjacket

The NZ Herald did not publish the picture.

In this instance, the offending cartoon is integral to the very story. It is some gratuitous opinion essay. To refuse to publish the cartoon is to avoid giving offence to a (potentially violent) minority group – that is, it is simply cowardice.

This is why my respect for the press in general continues to nosedive and why newspapers are increasingly irrelevant. By trying to be inoffensive, they have succeeded to removing the very thing that makes it newsworthy – that makes the newspapers irrelevant.
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January 14, 2015 11:51am
greenjacket

Above should read “It is NOT some gratuitous opinion essay.”
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January 14, 2015 11:57am
greenjacket

Huevon wrote: “I don’t think that freedom of expression means “freedom to offend”
Umm – that is exactly what it means.
And offend who? Your very statement I find offensive to me, so presumably we should silence you?

2000 years ago, a group of people offended the Jews and Romans. I suppose you support that those offensive trouble-makers should have been silenced?
Many people found rock n’ roll offensive? Maybe that should be silenced?

And I saw the Virgin in the Condom exhibition – what right do you have to stop me from going to an art exhibition?

What is “offensive” is entirely a matter of personal opinion.
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January 14, 2015 12:07pm
stephieboy

Ugly Truth ,

your latest tirade requires a measured response because you’ve made claims that are simply untrue. We can begin with this repeated allegation of” fits a pattern of false flag attacks … etc “ . Your Brevik so called evidence of yesterday was hardly evidence and merely consisted of a series of allegations about some one or some people claiming shots coming from another direction. Nothing more or nothing less.Again document what you actually mean by a ” pattern….”

Flight SQ 8051 is not a Malaysian Airline . It’s an Indonesian one and the Indonesian Government has taken charge of the search and recovery operations as per International protocols . SQ8051 happens to be an Indoesian Air Asia affiliate whose main office is registered in Malaysia.

The disappearance of Flight 370 has led to some wild specualtion by Conspiracy theorists based on no factual information or evidence Speculation has focussed on who interfered with the flight Coordinates. My view it was most likely either the Captain or co pilot but unless the 370 is fully salvaged we will likely never know for sure . BTW as matter of interest Diego Garcia, Air base is fully available for any airline to make an emergence landing.

As for Flight MH 17 we await the Dutch Safety Board’s final report due this mid year . Otherwise it’s still mere speculation.

Finally the actions of Charlie Hebro ,whilst can be seen as misguided ,does not justify the massacre under any circumstances . The Papacy has had to endure the same if not worse.
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January 14, 2015 12:22pm
Odakyu-sen

How do they know it is an “image” of the prophet? (I don’t see a label.)
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January 14, 2015 12:32pm
kowtow

Talking of gutless ,the ODT has run a couple of cartoons now ,and has in its editorial claimed to be Je Suis. No sign of any of the “offending” cartoons .

To the editor of the ODT, no sir , you are definitlely not Charlie.

BTW ,nor am I “charlie”. While I do support their right to publish what they see fit ,they are rude and obnoxious,brave but rude. They have given way more offence to Catholics ,none of whom rioted , burned or murdered.

http://qz.com/322550/charlie-hebdo-has-had-more-legal-run-ins-with-christians-than-with-muslims/

If you want “offensive” look at these cartoons, none of which made world headlines at the time.

Greenjacket.

Virgin in a Condom. Yep, Our Place ,funded by you and me has the absolute right to “artistic” freedom of expression and many other rights too. Which I support.But first up ,that wasn’t art, it was rubbish and second , they would never ,ever have hosted any other “art” that would give offense to any other religion other than Christianity. They too are cowrdly hypocrites. Fuck em.
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January 14, 2015 12:42pm
UglyTruth

Nothing more or nothing less

You didn’t mention the following:

In his manifesto, which he published on the internet, Breivik claims to be a member of a larger European network of revolutionary activists, the PCCTS, or ‘Knights Templar Europe’. The name refers to an religious order of mediaeval knights who took part in the crusades.

or this:

Then again, we have police who can’t get boats. Locals made boat runs to the island to save the children from Berwick or Brevick or whatever he called himself but police had no boats.

Photographs of Berwick hunting his 77 victims were made from the flurry of overhead helicopters that, according to police, never existed.

Flight SQ 8051 is not a Malaysian Airline . It’s an Indonesian one

AirAsia, which has been operating in Indonesia for more than 10 years, is 49% owned by Malaysia-listed AirAsia BHD
http://www.konfrontasi.com/content/politik/who-are-owners-airasia-elites-indonesia-and-malaysia

wild specualtion by Conspiracy theorists based on no factual information or evidence

As I have pointed out in the Solving 9-11 books, it is often an unseen Israeli component of what appears to be an American company that is actually controlling the company. This appears to be the case with GA Telesis and would explain why the only plane in their fleet, a twin of the missing MH370, is in a hangar in Tel Aviv – and why no one at the company wants to talk about it.

http://www.abeldanger.net/2014/04/why-is-twin-of-missing-mh370-in-hangar.html

As for Flight MH 17

Why did BBC delete this report by Olga Ivshina?

Eyewitness #3: There were sounds of an explosion. But they were in the sky. They came from the sky. Then this plane made a sharp turn-around like this. It changed its trajectory and headed in that direction [indicating the direction with her hands].

http://www.globalresearch.ca/deleted-bbc-report-ukrainian-fighter-jet-shot-down-mhi7-donetsk-eyewitnesses/5393631
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January 14, 2015 1:09pm
Reboot

Looks like a decision was made to tone down this cover in order to maintain public sympathy given the sudden influx of media attention and the greater need for responsibility and accountability, a significant contrast to their other Mohammad cartoons (e.g. of him being butt fucked naked) which were simply in bad taste.
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January 14, 2015 1:12pm
edhunter

I don’t remember all Catholics (or Irishmen but I wasn’t living in England) being tarred with the terrorist brush when the IRA were carrying out their attacks, but then I suppose the attacks weren’t on a global scale..
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January 14, 2015 1:35pm
Alan Wilkinson

I don’t see it as either ambiguous or offensive and agree with Kimbo’s interpretation. It is however in the Christian “turn the other cheek” tradition. If that contrast is offensive to some Muslims they would do well to examine their own morality.
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January 14, 2015 1:52pm
laworder

Redbaiter wrote

Hey Chardonnay Guy, here’s an interesting graphic just for you.

The train wreck we can’t wait to see.

Yep, thats going to be one hell of a train smash all right, already is in the Netherlands and parts of the UK
Very pertinent comment by someone on GD today – the strongest critique of one particular group that wants to put gays to death and subjagate women comes from the right. Someone else responded that the same group is supported by the left.

Regards
Peter J
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January 14, 2015 2:02pm
Jack5

Ugly at 1.09 (and in scores of similar posts over the months) warns us of the web of conspiracies that entrap us.

Sorry, Ugly. As Anonymous said:

I don’t believe in conspiracy theories.

I think aliens put them on the internet to confuse us.
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January 14, 2015 3:10pm
kowtow

ed hunter

When I were a young lad travelling between Ireland and the Uk every plane and ship was met by border control (UK Special Branch) and while there was unrestricted travel ,no passport control, you had to present ID if required ,fair enough .

What I do know is in some cases Paddys were sent back to Northern Ireland as persona non grata on the UK mainland, ,how that worked I’m not sure as NI and the mainland were technically the one legal entity,but they could ban citizens of the UK from residing or visting parts of the UK.

“But he is expected to consider abandoning exclusion orders, one of the most controversial parts of the Act. Although the order banning Gerry Adams, president of Sinn Fein, has been lifted, there are 58 exclusion orders in force preventing Northern Ireland residents coming to Britain.”

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/ulster-exclusion-orders-may-be-dropped-1569730.html

And of course there was the very controversial detention without trial. “internment”.
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January 14, 2015 3:45pm
UglyTruth

I think aliens put them on the internet to confuse us.

Babylon literally means confusion.
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January 14, 2015 4:49pm
Whanga-cynic

I see the vicar of Rome says “you cannot make fun of faith”. Another example of religious nuts wanting to take all the pleasure out of my life. Where would we be if we couldn’t argue about “sky fairies” or whatever it is these people believe in?
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January 16, 2015 4:31pm
valeriusterminus

They (NATO) call it a War. Then the Satirical dudes whom died Laughing chose to place themseleves on the Front Line. Their demise is sad but not suprising. Darwin Award nominations are pending. #JESUISTHOSEDUDESWHOWASATTHEWEDDINGINAFGHANISTANBUTGOTKILLEDBYTHOSEFXINGCHRISTIANCOWARDSINCREECH
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January 16, 2015 9:40pm
UglyTruth

Where would we be if we couldn’t argue about “sky fairies” or whatever it is these people believe in?

Arguing about belief is quite different to a malicious smear.

Fuck Charlie Hebdo.
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January 18, 2015 6:00am
Manolo

You are a true barbarian. Go back to your Stone Age paedophile prophet and worshipper of violence.
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January 18, 2015 7:44am

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