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December 30, 2014 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 30 December 2014

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General Debate

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hj

Professor Paul Spoonley

Cultural diversity is not some exotic backdrop that provides good food and the odd festival. Immigrants have some serious international connections; they know the markets we are selling into; they provide new trade links and opportunities. Locally, they grow new businesses and new business sectors. They contribute disproportionately to research and development (about half of Silicon Valley employees are immigrants).

http://publicaddress.net/speaker/what-diversity-dividend/

But that isn’t diversity

http://money.cnn.com/interactive/technology/tech-diversity-data/

http://www.fastcompany.com/3037720/innovation-agents/inside-the-movement-thats-trying-to-solve-silicon-valleys-diversity-proble
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December 30, 2014 8:03am
Viking2

You will enjoy this.
Comment on the latest craze.

http://screencast.com/t/kz0day72YmJp
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December 30, 2014 8:04am
Viking2

5 Facts Everyone Should Know About the Vikings.

In modern popular culture the Vikings are more myth than fact. Here are a few things we should all know about the Vikings because as it turns out, they had more to do with the development of Western Civilization than most people realize.

http://cjadrien.com/2014/12/18/5-facts-everyone-should-know-about-the-vikings/
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December 30, 2014 8:06am
hj

Public Address:
(and to Tom S: fuck you, you anglophile, xenophobic, ignorant, white supremacist piece of shit)
…
our precious social security system, something my parents and grandparents built with the sweat of their brows, would be unlikely to survive the strains of an encounter with mass migration
……
Complete and utter crap. New migrants (because they are generally younger and better skilled than average) lower the mean age of the population and increase the number of net contributors vs net beneficiaries.
Migration is one of the few ways open to us to get production to the levels needed to support peoples retirement. (One alternative would be to cede Tauranga).
http://publicaddress.net/speaker/what-diversity-dividend/

It is also a fallacy that higher immigration counteracts population ageing. Beyond an annual immigration level of around 100 000 people, the demographic benefits have been shown to diminish greatly, with migrants impacting much more on the size of the population than on its age structure. The main reason is that migrants age too! We would need to bring in increasingly more of them to ‘backfill’ the age structure over time. Indeed, the Commission calculated that to preserve the current age profile of the population, the immigration-to-population ratio would need to rise to three per cent (triple its peak of 2008-9). This would make Australia a population ‘super-power’ of 100+ million people by mid-century!

http://www.pc.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0018/111069/sustainable-population-proceedings.pdf

It doesn’t stop Massey polling the regions “Did you know about our demographic problem?”
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December 30, 2014 8:07am
Pete George

In his latest column Colin James writes of “the 2015 challenge” – how do we deal with “inequalities of wealth, income and opportunity”?

We drag with us into 2015 a quarter-century of now-ingrained wide inequalities of wealth, income and opportunity, which divide and undermine us and debilitate our economy.

In the 1890s, as Tom Brooking’s compendious new biography of Dick Seddon expounds, just such a division was fazing dreams of a new, freer society.

Seddon, William Pember Reeves and Jock McKenzie sanded off the patrician patina shipped in from Britain. New Zealanders (except Maori and Chinese, one must note) were to have a fair go to make the best of themselves.

That held for 90 years till the mid-1980s. Now many kids don’t get a fair go and we all lose.

Seddon and Co’s fair-go drive demonstrated that a small, open society can more flexibly imagine ways of doing things than a big, established one.

That is the 2015 challenge.

Rapid technological change is recasting production, value chains and sales channels, redefining education and ways of keeping and restoring health, sowing and vacuuming information, connecting people and things and destroying privacy.

That revolution plus global economic and political disorder have torn up political-economy texts.

The next texts will mostly be written elsewhere. But New Zealand has shown itself — in the 1890s, 1930s and 1980s — to be a place where new ideas can be tested in practice and enhanced. We can be flexible, open and quick-acting. We can innovate, as in our bicultural accommodation. And we have some fine minds.

Standing upright, we could make this a place the compilers of the new texts come to for a sparky idea or two.

That is one of many opportunities a disordered world opens for us in this safe, spacious, well-endowed place.

Can we in New Zealand be “flexible, open and quick-acting” in addressing inequalities of wealth, income and opportunity”?

Is this best done by dragging the top down, lifting the bottom, or a mix of both?

I think raising the bottom to keep up with the rest would be the best point of focus but it’s not easy, nor cheap.

But it may be more expensive in the long run not to.

John Key has indicated inequality will get more attention in 2015. Will it be token hunch? Or will Key and National stand upright and come up with a sparky idea or two?
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December 30, 2014 8:08am
mikenmild

‘John Key has indicated inequality will get more attention in 2015’
It might be another one of his ‘aspirational’ goals. Remember catching up with Australia and the 2020 taskforce?
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December 30, 2014 8:14am
eszett

hj, why are you ranting about a blog post and comments that were written 5 years ago?
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December 30, 2014 8:16am
Odakyu-sen

hj

What happens when the immigrants themselves get old (or when they bring in their aged parents from China). (Chinese often have the advantage of being able to legitimately claim that, as the only child, they are the only ones who can look after their parents in their old age (having now siblings back in China who could do the job)).
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December 30, 2014 8:17am
Pete George

mm – yep, but it’s about time his Government did more than “steady as she goes”. Key has a unique opportunity to make a real difference in his time as PM. Time for him to stand up this term.
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December 30, 2014 8:18am
Viking2

Tip for the day.
when the power goes off and it gets cold.

http://www.wimp.com/canpaper/
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December 30, 2014 8:21am
hj

Gary Banks
Chairman, Productivity Commission on a Sustainable Australia

A final implication, related to all these, is that a shift to sustainability calls for a deliberative and consultative approach to policy formulation: one that can secure well-informed political judgments, beyond the (facile) input of focus groups and ‘Hollow Men’, in what could become a more benign or at least more neutral political environment for policy decision-making. This is important, because, notwithstanding claims to the contrary, having a ‘policy’ is unavoidable. The only real choice is between one that effectively emerges by default — conceived in ad hocery or stealth — and one that is explicit and has been properly thought through, and is therefore explicable to the electorate.

http://www.pc.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0018/111069/sustainable-population-proceedings.pdf

Meanwhile in Aotearoa not so hollow men* gather:

Productivity Commision:
We recommend that you:
a agree to the inquiry selection process set out in Appendix 1
Agree/disagree
b agree that Commission’s second tranche of inquiries be selected on the degree that
they:
• are relatively uncontroversial given the desire to establish broad political support for the Commission

http://www.treasury.govt.nz/publications/informationreleases/productivitycommission/pdfs/t2011-2000.pdf

*vested interests (property investors, developers, banks, universities, the Green Party)
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December 30, 2014 8:22am
hj

eszett
hj, why are you ranting about a blog post and comments that were written 5 years ago?
….
because it just gets more and more relevant.
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December 30, 2014 8:27am
Left Right and Centre

At my lovely paknsave – stay with me here – I had to do their job for them a wee bit because there were two facing cartons of whole black pepper, and behind them a carton of the one I wanted – ground black pepper. So I brought it to the front and pushed one of the other two to the back of the shelf.

Whoever did the shelf probably isn’t going to be the next JK Rowling with their reading level. And those people are allowed to have children. Lots of children. I met a fella in 2013 that couldn’t really read and he was a father to six kids. Brilliant. I don’t know what anyone can do about that. Forget the 2015 challenge – that’s the price of freedom and democracy. With all the will in the world – I’d say at this stage it all amounts to rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. Hope I’m wrong.
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December 30, 2014 8:30am
big bruv

I have just worked out why I always find the prospect of January to be slightly depressing.

It’s like a month long Monday.
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December 30, 2014 8:32am
flipper

PG….

You say of JK… “Time for him to stand up this term.”…

You mean like more and more redistribution of income and wealth to give to those who make no effort to help themselves, including those who export their income and then play the poverty pimping game? Is that what you mean?

You are a sanctimonious prat, and James is as bad or worse than you and geriatric Armstrong.
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December 30, 2014 8:33am
Viking2

He’s the bad boy of the House. She’s Parliament’s gossip girl. It was clearly a marriage made in political heaven.

And it was all witnessed by former prime minister Helen Clark, two knights of the realm and guests from the worlds of politics and media.

Veteran Labour MP Trevor Mallard married political columnist Jane Clifton at his Wainuiomata home yesterday afternoon, with Clark the guest of honour.

Property magnate Sir Bob Jones, Labour MP Jacinda Ardern and former deputy prime minister Sir Don McKinnon were among the 70 guests who witnessed the pair get hitched on a piece of carpet from Parliament’s old legislative chamber.

Mallard’s parliamentary colleague David Clark, a Presbyterian minister, performed the service under bright-blue skies in a bright-red jacket.

But the newlyweds were a little shy for The Dominion Post photographer – reluctant to kiss for the camera, and just as coy on whether hard-man Mallard got down on one knee to propose.

“At his age, you don’t know how long it would take him to get back up,” Clifton said.

They were not giving away many details of their honeymoon either. “We hope to get away later in the year,” Mallard said.

Both are well-known faces in Parliament: Mallard was first elected in 1984, while Clifton has written about politics for more than 25 years.

The marriage is Clifton’s first and Mallard’s second. He has three children with former wife Stephanie.
———————————————-

Wow ya all missed that then.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/capital-life/64535957/columnist-jane-clifton-labour-mp-trevor-mallard-wed

Having voted for Mallard, he was pleased – and sympathetic – to learn his MP had got married.

“Good on him,” he said. “Poor bugger.”
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December 30, 2014 8:34am
hj

Colin James

” New Zealand has shown itself — in the 1890s, 1930s and 1980s — to be a place where new ideas can be tested in practice and enhanced. We can be flexible, open and quick-acting. We can innovate, as in our bicultural accommodation. And we have some fine minds.”
…………….

In the late 19th century and early 20th century, immigration to New Zealand could be seen
as reflecting a favourable shock to the tradable sector. Opening up new lands to
production, falling transport costs, refrigerated shipping combined to lift the population
capacity of New Zealand while still offering high wages and high rates of return.

By the middle of the 20th century, New Zealand was settled and producing, and
technological change in the key export sectors was no longer as rapid (relative to other
producers). The factor price equalisation justification for strong population growth had
dissipated, yet population growth remained high. Across the OECD, there is some
evidence that rapid population growth in post-war advanced countries was associated with
143
an apparent cost to per capita growth rates.

http://www.treasury.govt.nz/publications/research-policy/wp/2014/14-10

Key parts his hair on the other side

What do you want to be remembered for?”
“Going back to that main point I think it was Muldoon who famously said “I want to leave the country in no worse condition than I found it”.
“Isn’t that a low ambition?”
“Yes I want to leave the country in better condition than I found it and if theres something (I genuinely beleive) It would be lifting our confidence to a certain degree about how we see our selves in the world and what we think we are capable of achieving. Now I think individually there is masses of ambition that sits out there there but can we actually take that and convert that to take the opportunity .
And I always thought what was happening in the opposition of politics (of course they would oppose National, that’s their job actually apart from everything else) but it was a bit negative about out place in the world. So we played a bit about whether people coming here was a good or bad thing whether people should invest here was a good or bad thing, or whether we have a trade agreement with parts of Asia was a good or bad thing, but actually in my mind, the reason that I want to say yes to those things is because they are the opportunities that reflect our opportunities to both get wealthier (which is all about what you can do with that money) and then ultimately the oppurtunities for Kiwis. I’d like New Zealanders to feel (after my time as Prime Minister) they have become more confident outward looking nation more multicultural.

http://www.tv3.co.nz/CAMPBELL-LIVE-Monday-September-22-2014/tabid/3692/articleID/103019/MCat/2908/Default.aspx
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December 30, 2014 8:35am
SGA

Left Right and Centre at 8:30 am
What’s worse is that it might have been a previous customer putting something back in the wrong place – the problem may be of a much greater scale than you imagine.
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December 30, 2014 8:39am
hj

Thousands rally for Grapes of Wrath farmers

THOUSANDS of ordinary Australians yesterday rallied to help farming families being evicted from their drought-hit stations by the big banks, as pressure grew on the federal government to intervene in the mounting crisis.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/financial-services/thousands-rally-for-grapes-of-wrath-farmers/story-fn91wd6x-1227150433006
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December 30, 2014 8:42am
hj

flipper
You mean like more and more redistribution of income and wealth to give to those who make no effort to help themselves, including those who export their income and then play the poverty pimping game? Is that what you mean?
……………………..

Tonight, a pumped de Roos tells his audience that he wants people to invest in property and write to him 12 months down the track and tell him they’ve “made one million or three million, or you’ve got 16 properties, or we’re taking six months off because our cash flow now exceeds our outflow!” He says, “I don’t know any other activity where the rewards are so huge. If you want to invest a million dollars in the sharemarket, you need a million dollars. If you want to invest a million in real estate, you only need $100,000.”

You can buy one property, get it revalued, use the equity to buy another property and then buy another and another. “And you do it all with OPM. Other people’s money. OPM. It’s like being high on drugs!” What’s more, the wonder of depreciation claims on the building and contents means “the government subsidises your investment! It’s delightful!”

Listener House of The Rising Sum – Pamela Stirling
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December 30, 2014 8:47am
Viking2

So the road toll is up and the police are now looking for more excuses, using the smae old and beginning to think about why and what to do. About time.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/64535976/police-urge-safety-stepup-as-road-toll-climbs
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December 30, 2014 8:47am
Manolo

No wonder their country is stuffed. http://www.gallup.com/poll/180365/barack-obama-hillary-clinton-extend-run-admired.aspx

Americans continue to name Hillary Clinton as the woman living anywhere in the world whom they admire most, and name Barack Obama as the man they admire most.
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December 30, 2014 8:47am
big bruv

Oh look…Helen was there. No mention of her husband being in attendance though.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/capital-life/64535957/Columnist-Jane-Clifton-Labour-MP-Trevor-Mallard-wed
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December 30, 2014 8:51am
Tauhei Notts

The latest political news out of Greece is a real worry.
Greece has their left wing phuckwits, just as we have the Green Party. The trouble in Greece is that the phuckwits will almost certainly be running the asylum by February 2015.
This could have catastrophic consequences on the European Union.
It is a much bigger concern than a scungy ferry catching fire.
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December 30, 2014 8:51am
Nukuleka

Interesting times for Tonga with the election of long-time pro-democracy campaigner and MP ‘Akilisi Pohiva as Prime Minister. ‘Akilisi will come into the job with the huge expectations of ordinary Tongans behind him and with the ranks of the nobles and royals determinedly pitted against further erosion of their traditional rights and privileges.

Tonga is a country rife with corruption at all levels and with huge economic woes. Tongan social media are exultant about ‘Akilisi’s elevation. It’s to be hoped that he can fulfil even a fraction of their expectations.
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December 30, 2014 8:52am
wat dabney

Pete George,

Anyone who concerns themselves with inequality of wealth is morally bankrupt.
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December 30, 2014 8:54am
mikenmild

That is quite a sweeping statement, wat. Imagine a choice between two policies that have identical effects except that one decreases inequality whereas the other increases it. Which would be the correct moral choice?
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December 30, 2014 8:58am
Manolo

Lindsay Mitchell exposes a unionist’s lies: http://lindsaymitchell.blogspot.co.nz/2014/12/council-of-trade-unions-economist-wrong.html
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December 30, 2014 9:07am
waikatogirl

I met a fella in 2013 that couldn’t really read and he was a father to six kids. Brilliant.

**
While I concur with your point about not being able to read, there are an awful lot of intelligent people with dyslexia who have been successful. This pre-disposes that they have other skills, such as an inate ability to fix machinery, or computers, etc.

Sadly, the majority end up at pak n save or unemployed.

It is Sad to think that kids in NZ in this day and age can get through school and not have reading ability. Something wrong there!
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December 30, 2014 9:19am
wat dabney

Here we are hj, I found some reports about the effects of NZ immigration for you. For some reason it appears you have been very selective in what you endlessly post here; consistently cherry-picking just the misrepresentative pieces which are in accordance with your twisted bitterness and your ugly bigotry:

The objective of this study is to better understand the impact of immigration on the New Zealand economy overall and on different parts of the economy….

From an economy-wide perspective, the increased immigration scenarios investigated resulted in qualitatively similar impacts. In general, the results of the model scenarios found that increased immigration:

– reduces production costs
– improves the competitiveness of New Zealand goods and services, benefiting exports
– benefits domestic investment and/or consumer spending, depending on the skills composition of the immigration inflow
-results in higher revenues to government, which outweigh the impact on spending, so translate into an improvement in the balance of the government’s accounts.

http://www.dol.govt.nz/publications/research/cge/cge_01.asp

Although immigration flows are an important contributor to population change no evidence was found that the in-flow of immigrants has had an impact on house prices.

Local house price increases are more associated with where returning New Zealanders settle than where immigrants live.
http://www.dol.govt.nz/publications/research/migration-and-housing/summary.asp

Often, the general question is asked, ‘Do immigrants compete with NewZealanders for jobs and subsequently displace NewZealanders or impact upon conditions such as wages?’. The evidence points to immigration as having no adverse impact on the labour market outcomes of the native-born population. …

A common method used to illustrate the contribution (or otherwise) of migrants is to estimate the impact they have on public finances…The study showed that all sub-groups of the migrant population had positive net impacts…

We conclude that immigration has made a positive contribution to economic outcomes in NewZealand, and that fears for negative economic impacts such as net fiscal costs, house price inflation, and increasing unemployment are largely unfounded…

http://www.dol.govt.nz/publications/research/synthesis-research/synthesis-research_10.asp
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December 30, 2014 9:25am
Reid

That held for 90 years till the mid-1980s. Now many kids don’t get a fair go and we all lose.

This is the lefty myth they’re trying to establish as a meme by treating is as a self-evident fact. Same as Hulun’s ‘failed policies of the 90’s’ meme. Just keep repeating it over and over and never explain it.

The right should have dozens of commentators who come out in force whenever a lefty like James raises this meme and counters it. And if the media won’t run the counter in the organ the lie was promulgated in there should be an avalanche of outcry.

See, the left are poisoning minds here. They’re generating resentment based on a lie, no different to how some Maori have been poisoned through exactly the same tactics.
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December 30, 2014 9:26am
Redbaiter

in accordance with your twisted bitterness and your ugly bigotry:

Go live in Pakistan Witless.
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December 30, 2014 9:27am
EAD

I’m with Mikenmild on this one (shock, horror)

We should all be concerned with inequality of wealth as without a large politically active and aware middle class a democracy will cease to exist. If those at the bottom feel like they don’t have a stake in society then that will increase crime, alienation and destroy the bonds of a nation that tie us together.

Where I differ from Mikey is the cause and solution to “inequality”. Most of the “inequality” is caused by Government in the first place due to
1) huge welfare payments – it’s the irrefutable economic law of the more you subsidise something, the more of it you get.
2) Crony capitalism and bureaucracy – look at the constant ratcheting up of executive salaries in non-competitive industries and the public sector. When I read about DHB bosses getting 6 figure annual pay increases, you realise how morally bankrupt this system has become. Same for multi-million $ pay packets for executives of power companies. FFS – perhaps the most monopolistic industry and captive audience possible.
3) Government laws that destroy industries and jobs. These are numerous and far-reaching but perhaps the most obvious two are green taxes and youth minimum wages meaning employers are less willing to employ young people when they can get some experienced for the same price.
4) The governments continued mass immigration schemes. Despite all the propaganda, the truth is most of those coming into the country are poor (all the pacific islanders) or compete at the low end of the job market. This further increases the “wealth divide”.
5) Finally (and the one that interests me the most ) is our monopolistic fiat monetary system that steals off everyone through inflation of the monetary base and distribute it to the banking and political class. IMHO, this is the biggest scam of the lot and the biggest reason for “inequality”.

Rather than being the solution, get Government out of our lives (except holding up private property rights and law and order) and we might see a decrease in “inequality”

http://mises.org/library/state-causes-poverty-it-later-claims-solve
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December 30, 2014 9:27am
srylands

“Veteran Labour MP Trevor Mallard married political columnist Jane Clifton at his Wainuiomata home yesterday afternoon, with Clark the guest of honour.”

Trevor looks awful. A poorly fitting white shirt with no tie and some trousers that look like they are from Farmers.
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December 30, 2014 9:29am
wat dabney

milky,

Imagine a choice between two policies that have identical effects except that one decreases inequality whereas the other increases it. Which would be the correct moral choice?

Can you provide an example of two such policies?

No you can’t, because you are talking about something which is logically inconsistent.
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December 30, 2014 9:31am
hj

The US doesn’t have a good way of determining who’s poor
“Enter the Self-Sufficiency Standard. Developed by the Center for Women’s Welfare, the standard examines the income necessary for families to afford basic needs—such as food, shelter, clothing and transportation—in various cities and states without public assistance. It identifies what it takes for a family to simply survive, not thrive. This means no family outings or vacations, no dining out at restaurants, no stopping for coffee on the way to work. The bare bones.

Recently, we released the 2014 Self-Sufficiency Standard for New York, which found that 42% of New York City households do not meet this standard. That translates to two out of five working households, or roughly 2.7 million men, women and children who lack the income to afford life’s necessities.”
To put this in perspective, the standard shows that a family with two parents and two school-aged children living in Queens would need an annual income of $69,825 to make ends meet without the use of any public or private supports. If those children were preschool-aged, the family would require a higher income of $81,645 in order to afford child care. That is a far cry from $23,000, the federal poverty level, which is why the Federal Poverty Guidelines do not paint a comprehensive picture of “living poorly” in New York City and many other regions in this country.”
http://qz.com/312649/the-us-doesnt-have-a-good-way-of-determining-whos-poor/
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December 30, 2014 9:37am
hj

BETHLEHEM, West Bank (AP) — It’s Christmas season and the little town of Bethlehem is jammed with a big-city problem: Traffic snarling streets everywhere, including around the church marking the spot where tradition says Jesus was born. The city is considering a dramatic solution to the problem — digging a tunnel under Manger Square.

Traffic is a mess year-round. It may be the biblical town of grottos and shepherds’ fields in the minds of many around the world, but Bethlehem is a modern densely populated town of 28,000 with a dizzying weave of small streets that practically guarantee traffic jams.
http://news.yahoo.com/jesus-birthplace-grapples-modern-traffic-challenges-073043042.html
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December 30, 2014 9:39am
kowtow

“This could have catastrophic consequences on the European Union.”

Good ,the sooner that breaks up the better.
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December 30, 2014 9:40am
wreck1080

Tauranga seem to be in the process of renaming the libraries to the traditional maori name.

I didn’t realize that pre-european maoris had libraries.
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December 30, 2014 9:40am
hj

the Prince of Wales has called for urbanists to “reconnect with traditional approaches” in an essay that lays out his vision for the future of architecture and planning.
http://www.dezeen.com/2014/12/21/prince-charles-reveals-10-principles-for-more-mature-view-of-urban-design/
Good old Charlie! He cares about the quality of life in the U.K
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December 30, 2014 9:41am
wat dabney

Go live in Pakistan Witless.

Well, this pithy comment comprehensively refutes multiple rigorous studies about the economic benefits of immigration.

They could have saved their time and money, couldn’t they Red, and just asked you, and you could have smiled seraphically and told them to “go live in Pakistan” in that cryptic delphic manner of yours.
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December 30, 2014 9:42am
hj

National Cycleway
Welcome to Nga Haerenga, [excursions]
The New Zealand Cycle Trail
http://www.nzcycletrail.com/
I didn’t realise the Maori rode bicycles? I think you have to render unto Caesar the things that are Caesars etc but….?
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December 30, 2014 9:44am
Nukuleka

Pete George: I note that you posted your 8.08 am article over on The Standard as well. Not, I guess, that there is a real problem in doing this type of splatter blogging, but one has to wonder just what it is you hope to achieve with propagandising in this way. No doubt we will find the same article over on your own blog if we care to look.

It’s just that it’s a bit boring and suggests that you are someone who is somewhat fixated. I have a dog who behaves like this with bones.
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December 30, 2014 9:54am
Viking2

hj (7,231 comments) says:
December 30th, 2014 at 9:44 am

National Cycleway
Welcome to Nga Haerenga, [excursions]
The New Zealand Cycle Trail
http://www.nzcycletrail.com/
I didn’t realise the Maori rode bicycles? I think you have to render unto Caesar the things that are Caesars etc but….?

——————————-
Many have hj. plenty Maori “borrowed” other peoples bikes over many years.
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December 30, 2014 9:55am
hj

Well, this pithy comment comprehensively refutes multiple rigorous studies about the economic benefits of immigration.
………..

2.3 Changing policy expectations
While useful, models do not capture all the effects policymakers expect from immigration.
When New Zealand moved to increase the numbers and skills of immigrants in the 1980s
and 1990s, policymakers appear to have considered that these changes had the potential
to have major beneficial impacts on the New Zealand economy, reinforcing the gains from
22
the other liberalising and deregulating economic reforms undertaken during that period.
At that time, it was considered that skills-focused inward migration could: improve growth
by bringing in better quality human capital and addressing skills shortages; improve
international connections and boost trade; help mitigate the effects of population ageing;
and have beneficial effects on fiscal balance. As well as “replacing” departing
New Zealanders and providing particular help with staffing public services (for example,
medical professionals), it was believed that migration flows could be managed so as to
avoid possible detrimental effects (such as congestion or poorer economic prospects) for
existing New Zealanders.

Since then, New Zealand has had substantial gross and net immigration, which has been
relatively skill-focused by international standards. However, New Zealand’s economic
performance has not been transformed. Growth in GDP per capita has been relatively
lacklustre, with no progress in closing income gaps with the rest of the advanced world,
and productivity performance has been poor. It may be that initial expectations about the
potential positive net benefits of immigration were too high.

Based on a large body of new research evidence and practical experience, the consensus
among policymakers now is that other factors are more important for per capita growth
23
and productivity than migration and population growth. CGE modelling exercises for
Australia and New Zealand have been influential in reshaping expectations.

7 Conclusion
The macroeconomic effects of immigration in New Zealand are uncertain. There are
plausible arguments but as yet no evidence for large positive or negative impacts of
immigration. Some economists and geographers argue in favour of high rates of
immigration on the grounds that migrants can boost productivity through scale,
agglomeration and innovation. In contrast, some macroeconomists argue that in a low
savings economy, the resource pressures associated with high migration put persistent
upward pressure on real interest and exchange rates, leading to a re-allocation of
resources from more productive tradable sectors to less productive infrastructure, and
reducing productivity growth.
The lack of evidence is not symmetric. New Zealand has had high levels of inward
migration for 20 years now. Arguments for large positive effects invoke the possibility that
there are long lags, or that more positive effects will occur once some higher population
threshold is reached. In this case there is presently no evidence, but a possibility that
positive effects will eventually be reaped. In contrast, stylised facts such as real interest
rates that are high by international standards and a real exchange rate which has not
adjusted to the sustained deterioration in New Zealand’s relative productivity performance
are real and demonstrable, but cannot be definitively linked to migration policy.

The complexity of causality means it may not be possible to settle these arguments
empirically in New Zealand. The most robust available evidence points to migration having
small effects, some of which are positive (such as improving fiscal balance) and some
negative (such as labour market competition for the higher skilled). The large productivity
benefits hoped for when the scale and skills focus of migration were increased in the early
1990s have not been realised. Why not?

http://www.treasury.govt.nz/publications/research-policy/wp/2014/14-10
Migration and Macroeconomic
Performance in New Zealand:
Theory and Evidence
Julie Fry
New Zealand Treasury Working Paper 14/10
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December 30, 2014 9:56am
Reid

29 breathtaking photos of the human race:
http://imgur.com/a/Zd7Gu
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December 30, 2014 10:09am
Redbaiter

Well, this pithy comment comprehensively refutes

I’m not interested in refuting some nonsense low level politically correct govt “report” produced by partisan ninnies and containing gems such as this example of utter idiocy

fears for negative economic impacts such as ..house price inflation.. are largely unfounded.

The report is founded itself on ignorance and prejudice for it assumes so much that is wrong about opposition to immigration. And given that you buy into those wrong ideas, you could actually be the one suffering “twisted bitterness and ugly bigotry”.

Also, your assumption that anyone who disagrees with you on this issue deserves such epithets is proof that you either don’t understand the objections or else (more likely) just want to adopt the same old progressive approach and smear those who differ with you as socially undesirable.

Thirdly, if you’re going to talk about the economic impacts of immigration then you need to wisen up on what GDP really means, and to many its a worthless and meaningless economic measure, given it only really relates to money circulating and gives little consideration to whether that money is being used effectively or not.

But this is what I mean by the report being founded on bigotry, for the issues it addresses are not the issues that concern myself and others who might have objections to mass immigration. It is underpinned by the same idea you subscribe to- people who object to immigration do so because they’re ignorant bigots. And an “ignorant bigot” in progressive language means anyone who desires to preserve traditional NZ culture that only a couple of decades ago we were proud to call our own.

The idea of progressives like you seems to be that without a heavy dose of foreign culture, no existing Western culture can be legitimate. Another Progressive idea is that its fine that 400,000 NZers leave the country every year. Another Progressive idea is that its fine that we import other cultures to make up for these departures, and also to compensate for a low birth rate.

The assumption twisted Progressive bigots like you make Witless is that there are no rational and worthwhile ideas to challenge this set of assumptions. When in fact there are many.
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December 30, 2014 10:13am
waikatogirl

Reid, thanks for the awesome photos.

The one that really got me were the mother and 3 year old with acid damage from the husband/father!! Please don’t allow men with those beliefs to immigrate to NZ 🙁
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December 30, 2014 10:22am
Kimbo

The marriage is Clifton’s first and Mallard’s second. He has three children with former wife Stephanie.

I always thought she was married to Murray McCully. But google says they were “partners”. Not that it matters but here’s one occasion where it would seem a Labour Party MP’s personal choices reflect “traditional values” compared to his National Party…what is the right word?…predecessor.
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December 30, 2014 10:27am
waikatogirl

My question is how neutral a political columnist can be when married to one of the parties you report on?
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December 30, 2014 10:37am
hj

Wat Dabney
http://www.dol.govt.nz/publications/research/cge/cge_01.asp
2009 report uses commuter generated General Equilibrium modelling which depends entirely on assumptions (garbage in garbage out)

A number of econometric models have indicated that immigration has favourable effects on
the New Zealand economy. The most influential was that done by Poot, Nana and Philpott
(1988) who found that immigration accelerates economic growth and reduces unemployment.
However, such models have been criticised as the results are strongly influenced by the
assumptions and parameter built in by the model makers (Chapple, Yeabsley, and Gorbey
1994). The limits of such models were illustrated by Peter (1993) who revealed that
assumptions regarding economies of scale, labour force participation, spending and
productivity of migrants are crucial to results. By changing his assumptions to equally
plausible alternatives, Peter found he could reverse the findings on the benefit of migrants on
the Australian economy.

Poot et al.’s (1988) model was based on the assumptions of economies of scale and
technological change allowing for 1.5% less inputs per unit of output. However, there is little
evidence that New Zealand’s industries benefit from economies of scale. New Zealand’s
biggest and most successful industries such as dairying, tourism, fisheries, do not rely on

2
domestic economies of scale. Nor did their model consider any diseconomies of scale such as
the infrastructural congestion caused by increased population density. This influential
research is now twenty years old and in that time, the industries most likely to benefit from
economies of scale ie: manufacturing have gone into decline as more production is located
off-shore. Globalisation would also imply focusing on off-shore markets is a more logical
approach of obtaining economies of scale given the size of the international market vis-à-vis
an expanded domestic market. In this way, globalisation has actually decreased the rationale
for the free flow of labour for countries like New Zealand.

And is contradicted by the Savings Working Group (2011) and the Treasury Paper above

Based on a large body of new research evidence and practical experience, the consensus
among policymakers now is that other factors are more important for per capita growth
23
and productivity than migration and population growth. CGE modelling exercises for
Australia and New Zealand have been influential in reshaping expectations.

“Although immigration flows are an important contributor to population change no evidence was found that the in-flow of immigrants has had an impact on house prices.

Local house price increases are more associated with where returning New Zealanders settle than where immigrants live.”
http://www.dol.govt.nz/publications/research/migration-and-housing/summary.asp

While national analysis may overstate macroeconomic effects, local and regional analysis
probably understates effects, by taking insufficient account of how local markets interact.
Migration into a specific locality may have a limited impact on local prices if it increases
demand for housing more broadly. For example, people living in an area with a high inflow
of migrants may seek to purchase houses in other areas. If local, regional and even
national house markets are close substitutes for each other, then attempting to isolate the
effects of migrants to a particular local market may provide limited insight into the overall
137
effect of migration on house prices. However, as long as differences are not fully
adjusted away, even if the regional aggregation is imperfect the Stillman and Maré
regression should still pick up some of the relationship between immigration and house
prices. A large region with higher immigration should have more sub-regions with high
138
house price growth and high immigration.

Although agreement between observable national and regional results would give greater
confidence, it is possible to have large effects at the national level that are hard to identify
at the regional level. On balance, the available evidence suggests that migration, in conjunction with sluggish supply of new housing and associated land use restrictions, may
139
have had a significant effect on house prices in New Zealand.

http://www.treasury.govt.nz/publications/research-policy/wp/2014/14-10

DOL
“A common method used to illustrate the contribution (or otherwise) of migrants is to estimate the impact they have on public finances…The study showed that all sub-groups of the migrant population had positive net impacts…

We conclude that immigration has made a positive contribution to economic outcomes in NewZealand, and that fears for negative economic impacts such as net fiscal costs, house price inflation, and increasing unemployment are largely unfounded…”

http://www.dol.govt.nz/publications/research/synthesis-research/synthesis-research_10.asp

A potentially more important omitted category is the large-scale public infrastructure investment that might be needed following the expansion of the
population. {FFS}This kind of expenditure is conceptually difficult to allocate to relatively small changes in the population resulting from immigration. There is
also the question to what extent existing infrastru
cture is sufficiently underutilised to be able to cope with additional population without incurring congestion effects. This may be particularly important in New Zealand, where most new migrants settle in Auckland; a city in which, for example, investment in transportation infrastructure has not kept pace
with increasing demand.

http://www.dol.govt.nz/publications/research/synthesis-research/synthesis-research.pdf [page45]
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December 30, 2014 10:42am
Reid

The ones that got me most were the two girls and the one boy with Kalashnikovs.

Corruption of innocence is the most wicked thing imaginable, in my view.

Speaking of which:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2889020/Two-former-ministers-accused-sexually-abusing-children-30-years-ago-alleged-Westminster-paedophile-ring.html
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December 30, 2014 10:42am
Keeping Stock

@ waikatogirl – Jane Clifton also had a long-term relationship with Murray McCully prior to hooking up with Mallard. After years of reading her columns, I’d say she’s as neutral as any, and a darned sight more neutral than most of her profession.
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December 30, 2014 10:44am
kowtow

wreck 1080

Renaming things maori. happening everywere, against the stated preferences of us peasants ,who are racist ,ignorant ,bigots.

http://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/214592/toitu-official-after-mayor-casts-vote
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December 30, 2014 10:49am
Kimbo

@ waikatogirl

My question is how neutral a political columnist can be when married to one of the parties you report on?

As per Keeping Stock, Clifton has plenty of practice. I think she is a good and balanced journalist in it for the long-haul, and not a scandal headline-hunter like others.

I seem to recall reading in her book that she made the decision never to menton McCully directly in any of her Opinion columns.

We ask people to suspend their possible prejudices every day when they are called and selected to serve on juries. Clifton, based on the evidence of her work over many years, is well-practised in that skill.
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December 30, 2014 10:52am
publicwatchdog

Here you go Kiwibloggers – you can ‘howl at the moon’ / ‘put an issue into a ‘sausage machine’ so that it has an outcome’ – or you can do both:

Does YOUR Council need to be asked THESE questions folks?

30 December 2014

Auckland Council CEO
Stephen Town

‘Open Letter’ / OIA request to Auckland Council CEO Stephen Town :
Please provide the information which proves how Auckland Council checks Rates Assessment notices and Rates Invoices for statutory compliance before they are sent to ratepayers.

Dear Stephen,

1) Please provide the information which proves how, on an annual basis since the Auckland Council was established on 1 November 2010, Auckland Council Rates Assessment notices were checked, before they were sent out to ratepayers, for statutory compliance with section 45 of the Local Government (Rating) Act 2002, http://www.legislation.govt.nz/…/2002/0006/l…/DLM132294.html by:

a) Auckland Council staff
b) Auckland Council Mayor and elected Councillors

2) Please include a copy, for each ‘rating year’, since the Auckland Council was established on 1 November 2010, a copy of the Auckland Council ‘procedure’/ ‘protocol’ / ‘organisational flow chart’ – which covered how the ‘draft’ Rates Assessment notice for each year was ‘drawn up’, and the ‘processes’ it went through before being ‘signed off’ and sent out to ratepayers, and the designated Council staff / departments (or the like) responsible for each step of this process, particularly the ‘signing off’ of the ‘final’ Rates Assessment notice.

3) Please provide the information which proves how, on an annual basis since the Auckland Council was established on 1 November 2010, Auckland Council Rates Invoices were checked before they were sent out to ratepayers, for statutory compliance with section 46 of the Local Government (Rating) Act 2002,
http://www.legislation.govt.nz/…/2002/0006/l…/DLM132297.html by:
a) Auckland Council staff
b) Auckland Council Mayor and elected Councillors

4) Please include a copy, for each ‘rating year’, since the Auckland Council was established on 1 November 2010, a copy of the Auckland Council ‘procedure’ / ‘process’ /’protocol’ / ‘organisational flow chart’ which covered how the ‘draft’ Rates Invoice for each year was ‘drawn up’, and the ‘processes’ it went through before being ‘signed off’ and sent out to ratepayers, and the designated Council staff / departments (or the like) responsible for each step of this process, particularly the ‘signing off’ of the ‘final’ Rates Invoice.

5) Please provide the information, on an annual basis since the Auckland Council was established on 1 November 2010, which proves that the Office of the Auditor-General (OAG) provided a ‘statutory third party’ audit check that Auckland Council itself had in place satisfactory ‘internal systems’ which ensured Auckland Council Rates Assessment notices were checked, before they were sent out to ratepayers, for statutory compliance with section 45 of the Local Government (Rating) Act 2002.

6) Please provide the information, on an annual basis since the Auckland Council was established on 1 November 2010, which proves that the Office of the Auditor-General (OAG) provided a ‘statutory third party’ audit check that Auckland Council itself had in place satisfactory ‘internal systems’ which ensured Auckland Council Rates Invoices were checked, before they were sent out to ratepayers, for statutory compliance with section 46 of the Local Government (Rating) Act 2002.

7) Please provide the information, on an annual basis since the Auckland Council was established on 1 November 2010, which proves that the Office of the Auditor-General (OAG) requested a final ‘draft’ copy of the Auckland Council Rates Assessment notice, in order to provide a ‘statutory third party double-check’, before they were sent out to ratepayers, for statutory compliance with section 45 of the Local Government (Rating) Act 2002.

8) Please provide the information, on an annual basis since the Auckland Council was established on 1 November 2010, which proves that the Office of the Auditor-General (OAG) requested a final ‘draft’ copy of the Auckland Council Rates Invoice, in order to provide a ‘statutory third party double-check’, before they were sent out to ratepayers, for statutory compliance with section 46 of the Local Government (Rating) Act 2002.

Yours sincerely,
Penny Bright
‘Anti-corruption whistle-blower’
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December 30, 2014 10:58am
wikiriwhis business

*vested interests (property investors, developers, banks, ”

All National Party supporters and lobbyists
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December 30, 2014 10:58am
hj

EAD
“4) The governments continued mass immigration schemes. Despite all the propaganda, the truth is most of those coming into the country are poor (all the pacific islanders) or compete at the low end of the job market. This further increases the “wealth divide”.”
……..
“The focus of the 3 November forum was to give feedback on the work undertaken by the Working Group and the way forward of Earth Action Trust to all stake holders of Growing Confident Communities Together. The following is a summary of report to the participants given by Trust:
Manager, Agnes Granada. Granada started with a brief explanation of the journey of the Grow-
ing Confident Communities Together movement that has led to the formation of Earth Action Trust. She mentioned that the creation of Earth Action Trust was the culmination of two years of community consultations and engagements.
Its aim is to create solutions to common issues with the main one being unemployment and underemployment for migrants and former refugees. The proposed solution to this problem was the formation of a social enterprise in the recycling industry that will lead to creation of jobs. This initiative aligns with Auckland Council’s Waste Management and Minimisation Plan which has a goal of zero waste by 2040. ”

http://www.migrantactiontrust.org.nz/images/Docs/newsletters/nov2013.pdf
Sad.
You are unlikely to have everyone in the population being well off, however liberal/leftists have their heads in the sand; Wat Dabney types are cornucopian. We are importing the worlds poor and not seeing the unpleasant reality of population, resources, economy?
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December 30, 2014 11:04am
holysheet

Wiki you dumbass, bob jones is one of the biggest property developers owners in NZ and he was a guest at the ducks wedding. Goes to show he has no class despite his knighthood…
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December 30, 2014 11:05am
Reid

Apropos to yesterday’s discussion about war, some of you might find the following references interesting:
http://henrymakow.com/2014/12/Hitler-Sabotaged-War-Effort%20.html
http://www.greghallett.com/pages/Hitler-was-a-British-Agent.html
http://www.solargeneral.org/wp-content/uploads/library/conjuring-hitler.pdf

Most of you of course won’t be capable of reading those, instead you’ll hallucinate that because in your deluded worldview it could not be possible that therefore logically it isn’t so you won’t trouble yourselves to familiarise yourself with facts that indicate the possibility.

Too bad, for you.
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December 30, 2014 11:05am
Fletch

A video parody of Pharrell’s song Happy, with Obama dancing in the leading role, while Ukraine, Iraq, and Afghanistan burn in the background. I will only comment that some of the shots are very well done and some are not. In the opening shot, you could swear it was actually Obama singing, dancing. In other shots, I think his head looks too big.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4_r5dc_V-E
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December 30, 2014 11:05am
Reid

Does YOUR Council need to be asked THESE questions folks?

Penny.

No.
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December 30, 2014 11:06am
Fletch

According to CNN, Jeb Bush is the GOP frontrunner at the moment for the 2016 race.

Washington (CNN) — Jeb Bush is the clear Republican presidential frontrunner, surging to the front of the potential GOP pack following his announcement that he’s “actively exploring” a bid, a new CNN/ORC poll found.

He takes nearly one-quarter — 23% — of Republicans surveyed in the new nationwide poll, putting him 10 points ahead of his closest competitor, New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie, who tallied 13%.

Physician Ben Carson comes in third, with 7% support, and Sen. Rand Paul and former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee are both tied for fourth with 6%.

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/12/28/politics/bush-leads-gop-field-poll/

Could it end up being a Clinton vs Bush race?
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December 30, 2014 11:11am
Kimbo

@ Reid

Most of you of course won’t be capable of reading those, instead you’ll hallucinate that because in your deluded worldview it could not be possible that therefore logically it isn’t so you won’t trouble yourselves to familiarise yourself with facts that indicate the possibility.

Too bad, for you.

Not a believer in Dale Carnegie’s “How to win friends and influence people” school of advertising, eh, Reid?
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December 30, 2014 11:12am
Reid

Kimbo there’s no point in trying to win friends when the potential friend has already made up their own mind on the matter, is there. That’s why I don’t bother with that approach anymore, I just say it like it is. Simple as that.
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December 30, 2014 11:16am
Redbaiter

Could it end up being a Clinton vs Bush race?

Less than 500 people questioned for that “nationwide poll”.

The story is the usual worthless CNN crap.

No Republican should need the idiot commies at CNN to pick their Presidential candidate for them.
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December 30, 2014 11:19am
mikenmild

Kimbo
Reid has compiled millions of separate pieces of information to get to the position where he can tell what is real and what is not. To many, his links will seem to be absurd conspiracy theories. To him, they are just pieces of evidence that confirm his rather peculiar world view.
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December 30, 2014 11:21am
publicwatchdog

So ‘Reid’ – how does YOUR Council double-check YOUR Rates Assessment notices and Rates Invoices for statutory compliance with sections 45 and 46 of the Local Government (Rating) Act 2002, before they are sent to YOU?

Seriously?

In my opinion, it would appear that Auckland Council could do with a ‘best practice’ example?

Kind regards

Penny Bright
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December 30, 2014 11:25am
Reid

how does YOUR Council double-check YOUR Rates Assessment notices and Rates Invoices for statutory compliance with sections 45 and 46 of the Local Government (Rating) Act 2002, before they are sent to YOU?

Penny you mental, SS. 45 and 46 says NOTHING about councils needing to provide the info you’re claiming in your idiot time-wasting letter MUST be provided, all those sections cover is the content of the rates notice and one notes your useless piece of absolute bullshit says NOTHING about any issue with ANY of the things mentioned in those sections, indicating that actually, ACC is in complete compliance with said sections. So in other words, no corruption, no incompetence, nothing at all except a vapid claim by a roaring mental requiring someone in ACC to politely respond to it, written by someone who doesn’t even pay rates.
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December 30, 2014 11:42am
renderer

Penny when will you show some best practice examples by for example, paying some rates or taxes? When will you fess up to how you sustain your lifestyle and penchant for travel?
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December 30, 2014 11:44am
waikatogirl

Kimbo, I respect Clifton’s ability, and have never noticed bias. Just asking the question as I thought someone would 😉
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December 30, 2014 11:47am
Kimbo

@ Reid

Kimbo there’s no point in trying to win friends when the potential friend has already made up their own mind on the matter, is there. That’s why I don’t bother with that approach anymore, I just say it like it is. Simple as that.

So if you have decided they have already made up their mind and are therefore effectively a lost cause…why bother mentioning it anyway?

Like you said, “simple”.
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December 30, 2014 11:48am
Kimbo

@ waikatogirl

Kimbo, I respect Clifton’s ability, and have never noticed bias. Just asking the question as I thought someone would 😉

And given the consistent quality of your posts I never suspected otherwise. 🙂
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December 30, 2014 11:50am
wat dabney

hj,

Well, this pithy comment comprehensively refutes multiple rigorous studies about the economic benefits of immigration.

No, it doesn’t.

The point is that you have systematically and relentlessly provided a thoroughly biased and selective view of the issue.

If your case had any merit you would not need to so comprehensively distort the evidence.
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December 30, 2014 11:53am
Kimbo

@ mikenmild

Kimbo
Reid has compiled millions of separate pieces of information to get to the position where he can tell what is real and what is not. To many, his links will seem to be absurd conspiracy theories. To him, they are just pieces of evidence that confirm his rather peculiar world view.

Quite.

I’ve come across a few academics who, when called out on their outlandish claims, resort to the “I’ve been misquoted/misunderstood/misrepresented gambit.

Like I posted yesterday, the three questions

1 What did (s)he say?
2. What did (s)he mean?
3. So what?

usually flush the obfuscators out.
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December 30, 2014 11:54am
Left Right and Centre

SGA – No, no, no, no no, no, no, no and finally no. Two cardboard carton outers of whole black pepper next to each other. So there are about eight containers – around four in each cardboard carton facing out. A customer has not done that. And it’s not just one thing – it’s not an anomaly or an outlier – that’s just paknsave. ~~Low prices for lowlives – hahahaha.~~ I love them dearly.
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December 30, 2014 12:00pm
Redbaiter

Witless Dumbney’s colleagues in the media demonstrate their ignoranc ein bigotry for condemning this sign on Racist grounds. when there is no actual “race” involved.

Lesson learned-

1) the media is full of ignorant knee jerk progressives who are so conditioned to label any dissent as “racist” they completely fail to recognise that religion is not a race.

2) The mainstream media being so full or such worthless jerks in actually pretty much irrelevant and becoming more so every day.

http://www.smh.com.au/queensland/men-wave-racist-sign-in-wake-of-sydney-siege-20141215-127zt0.html
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December 30, 2014 12:07pm
Rufus

Apropos to yesterday’s post by Fletch about Obama having Secret Service people on jet skis keeping people off a public beach so the Obamas could enjoy a swim, this takes the cake:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-12-29/obamas-golf-game-disrupts-soldiers-wedding

The guy has no class.
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December 30, 2014 12:18pm
Fletch

Interesting video, which explains how when followers of Islam (especially those who make statements to the media) talk about “innocents” and “human rights”, they are talking about something different than what we in the West are. They ascribe a different meaning to the words under Sharia Law.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBKmP23r5Zs

The bloggers in the video back this up by deferring to the Cairo Declaration of Human Rights in Islam, that was released in 1990.
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December 30, 2014 12:29pm
stephieboy

Rufous it seems to me that Natalie Heimel and her fiancé, Edward Mallue J have huge expectations as to whom they might want to come to their wedding .

Did they invite the more recent couple Geroge Clooney and Amal Almuuddin ?

Sound like more typical nonsense verse from Zero Hedge.
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December 30, 2014 12:45pm
alloytoo

It’s interesting how the conversation has shifted from “Poverty” to the far more intangible “Inequality”. The sad reality is that since the fall of communism in Russia, capitalism and globalisation has greatly reduced abject poverty in the world, so much so that the doomsayers needed to shift the goal posts.

If the bare essentials, food, accommodation, electricity, flat screen TV’s and basic SKY is supplied (irrespective of Labour input), that exactly what purpose does measuring the difference between the lame, lazy and energetic achieve?
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December 30, 2014 12:48pm
waikatogirl

Thanks Kimbo 🙂
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December 30, 2014 12:50pm
stephieboy

Reid at 11.05,

Henry Makow some Emitirus Professor of Modern or Military History from Oxford ,Cambridge , Havard etc ?

Five good reasons why would you expect us to believe the absolute nonsense from the links you posted ?
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December 30, 2014 1:00pm
flipper

A Carbon Tax message for sane Kiwibloggers…..

***”
The carbon tax figures are in: Australians paid $14b to reduce global emissions by 0.004%!

We can finally assess (sort of) the carbon tax in Australia. It ran for two years from July 2012 to July 2014 and cost Australians nearly $14 billion. The National Greenhouse Gas Inventory Office released Australian emissions statistics for the June Quarter of 2014. The headlines hitting the press this week are saying we reduced our emissions by 1.4%. The Greens are excited, but neither the journalists or the Greens have looked at the numbers. Not only is this reduction pathetically small on a global scale, but it’s smaller than the “noise” in the adjustments. Like most official statistics the emissions data gets adjusted year after year, and often by 1 – 2%. We won’t really know what our emissions were, or what the fall was, for years to come… (if ever)….”

For more go to joannenova.com.au
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December 30, 2014 1:05pm
kowtow

reid,

Hitler was a british agent , it’s not April 1st yet.
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December 30, 2014 1:25pm
Reid

Hitler was a british agent , it’s not April 1st yet.

and

Henry Makow some Emitirus Professor of Modern or Military History from Oxford ,Cambridge , Havard etc ?

and

Quite.

I’ve come across a few academics who, when called out on their outlandish claims, resort to the “I’ve been misquoted/misunderstood/misrepresented gambit.

and

Reid has compiled millions of separate pieces of information to get to the position where he can tell what is real and what is not. To many, his links will seem to be absurd conspiracy theories. To him, they are just pieces of evidence that confirm his rather peculiar world view.

All of which prove what I predicted would come to pass, viz:

“Most of you of course won’t be capable of reading those, instead you’ll hallucinate that because in your deluded worldview it could not be possible that therefore logically it isn’t so you won’t trouble yourselves to familiarise yourself with facts that indicate the possibility.

Too bad, for you.”

For all of you have made up your minds on the basis I was explaining and none of you have bothered to familiarise yourselves with ANYTHING in those links, have you.

Case closed.

Get back to bleating and baaing in the green green meadow bathed in happiness and sunshine, sheeple.

Maaaaaaaaaaaaa.
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December 30, 2014 1:46pm
big bruv

If you enjoy watching rabid lefties suffer then this is great reading over the summer break.

http://thestandard.org.nz/election-watch-2014/
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December 30, 2014 2:37pm
wreck1080

trying to figure out if there is 0 tolerance on speed or not!!

Radio ads say there is 0 tolerance. ie, going 1kph over the limit and you’ll get a ticket.

But the chief boss in charge of this policy said a while back it was being dropped.

The traffic enforcement division has poor leadership and communication skills. Someone should be sacked for sure , for deliving absolute confusion over the xmas period.
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December 30, 2014 2:40pm
mikenmild

Reid
I’m nearly bored enough today to read your Henry Makow link about Hitler. Can you give me one good reason why I should?
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December 30, 2014 3:20pm
Lucia Maria

Just watched this recent Polish-made, Cold War era, spy movie on You-Tube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CjnqvMqATw

From Influx Magazine Review

Excellence from start to finish.

Ryszard Kuklinski is a name practically every person outside of Poland wouldn’t recognize today. However, according to the movie Jack Strong, he’s one of the most important figures in putting an end to the Cold War–a real hero to his people and the West. It seems that this Polish military officer was a very, very important spy who risked his life to undermine the Soviets who controlled his nation.

The movie begins with a very grisly killing. Fortunately, you don’t really get to see very much–and it’s the last scene like this in the film. The man who was killed was apparently a Pole who was spying for the West–and his reward when captured was being tossed into a blast furnace! A forewarning of what could happen to the leading character in this film.

I highly recommend it.
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December 30, 2014 3:31pm
Rufus

Stephieboy –

Rufous it seems to me that Natalie Heimel and her fiancé, Edward Mallue J have huge expectations as to whom they might want to come to their wedding .
Did they invite the more recent couple Geroge Clooney and Amal Almuuddin ?
Sound like more typical nonsense verse from Zero Hedge.

No Stephie – read carefully. They had a wedding planned and booked. They heard Obama was coming, so they invited him (as a joke), and got a nice suprise when they received an RSVP saying thanks for the invite, terribly sorry, but can't make it. All fun and games, whether Obama wrote it himself, or one of his staffers did doesn't matter – it was a nice touch.

Then then got another note to tell them to move the wedding, as Obama wanted to play golf on the golf course they were to be married on.

Not so cool.

Yes, it was in the hire terms that they might have to move at the last minute, so legally no redress, but come on, could he not have waited a few hours (ceremony lasts what, an hour tops, allow some time to pack all the chairs etc up, say 3 hrs max).

Or he could have played at another course. I mean, it's not like he can't simply go whereever he wants?

No class.

Zerohedge – from a more reputable source initially
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December 30, 2014 3:50pm
Lucia Maria

Fletch,

A video parody of Pharrell’s song Happy, with Obama dancing in the leading role, while Ukraine, Iraq, and Afghanistan burn in the background…

Your video is by LifeNews, a Russian news website, owned by pro-Kremlin owner, Ashot Gabrelyanov.

While I’m not a fan of President Obama, it is a good idea to keep in mind that the Russians want to help him in destroying his credibility. No need to help them in that mission.
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December 30, 2014 3:55pm
CrazyIvan

Lucia Maria,
Thanks for the link. Looks like a very interesting movie and will be NYE viewing for me. I’m a sucker for Polish-language films since seeing Fire and Sword in London in the 1990s.

Kuklinski is still a controversial figure in Poland, with his monument vandalised a few times and it being the 1990s until he was cleared of all charges. Both of his sons died in mysterious circumstances in the 1990s.
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December 30, 2014 4:04pm
stephieboy

Lucia Maria, impossible for someone like Fletch to understand or comprehend such niceties and subtleties.Anything anti Obama will do whether it’s the Kremlin’s answer to Fox News ( R T ) or Fox itself .
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December 30, 2014 4:09pm
Kiwi Dave

Reid
I went to the Hitler/British agent link – it’s a mixture of the plausible and wildly tendentious.

For example, the delay in invading Russia was caused by, among other things, a late spring. The Wermacht’s principal superiority to the Red Army lay in its ability to conduct battles of manoeuver, but this would have been nullified by flooding rivers and muddy ground. Barbarossa began on June 22, 2 days earlier than Napoleon crossed the Nemann in 1812. I suppose Napoleon was a British agent too.

For example, Hitler had made it clear in planning for Barbarossa that capture of south Russia’s resources rather than Moscow was a goal of the invasion with little demurral by his generals. The German generals massively underestimated the magnitude of their task – especially logistics, the size of the Red Army, its willingness to fight – and by August 41 the invasion was in trouble. The railways were not delivering the required tonnage of munitions and fuel, at least a quarter of the initial invasion truck fleet was out of action, about 50 per cent of the army’s tanks had been put out of action but only 5 per cent of these losses replaced at the front by new production, and in the opinion of the General of Infantry the typical infantry unit had lost 30% of its combat effectiveness through losses and exhaustion. It is highly doubtful that Army Group Centre, some of whose units were close to breaking point under pressure from Soviet counter- attacks could have simultaneously advanced on Moscow and defended itself from attacks by large forces on its southern flank, which had to be eliminated.

And if we are going to infer from allegedly incompetent decisions by Hitler that he was a British agent, shouldn’t we also conclude that Stalin was a German agent because of his indisputably incompetent decisions during and before Barbarossa?
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December 30, 2014 4:10pm
Lucia Maria

CrazyIvan, you’re welcome!

I found it by really wanting to watch a movie and being frustrated with the choice available in NZ, so searching out what I could watch online (specifically Polish) and I found Jack Strong. So happy I did.

I’m going to watch Katyn tomorrow night (another movie that’s never made it to NZ)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4BH9UFJnkk

Stephie,

I’m internet friends with Fletch, so hopefully he’ll listen to me.
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December 30, 2014 4:16pm
EAD

Ron Paul – one of the few voices of sanity and reason in the USA’s war-mongering evil empire:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-12-29/ron-paul-real-meaning-1914-christmas-truce

He offers some voice of reason and rationality when talking abut the Christmas truce of 1914 and notes the peace that is possible when people act on their human instincts rather than be coerced into fighting with the use of propaganda by evil Statists.

“How amazing to think that the celebration of the birth of the Prince of Peace could bring a brief pause in one of the most destructive wars in history. How sad that it was not to last.

The Christmas Truce showed that given the choice, people do not want to be out fighting and killing each other. It is incredibly damaging to most participants in war to face the task of killing their fellow man. That is one reason we see today an epidemic of PTSD and suicides among US soldiers sent overseas on multiple deployments.

The Christmas Truce in 1914 was joyous for the soldiers, but it was dangerous for the political leadership on both sides. Such fraternization with the “enemy” could not be tolerated by the war-makers. Never again was the Christmas Truce repeated on such a scale, as the governments of both sides explicitly prohibited any repeat of such a meeting. Those who had been greeting each other had to go back to killing each other on orders from those well out of harm’s way”

A quote worth reflecting on is the all time classic:

“Suppose they gave a war and nobody came.”
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December 30, 2014 4:29pm
stephieboy

Rufus, according to this report the married couple were quite happy with the final outcome and sent the President their wedding photos.The wedding caterers had a number of contingencies arranged realising that the Presidents golfing could create complications

A more balanced coverage below than from your far right media of yours that will pick on any kind of trivia no matter how small to smear and discredit Obama,

http://www.snopes.com/info/news/obamagolf.asp
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December 30, 2014 4:32pm
stephieboy

EAD, oh dear the cracked record of Ron Paul the cracked failed Presidential aspirant .The economic soothsayer genius who last year falsely predicted the US dollar would totally collapse .

Ron Paul the true voice of palolithic libertarian and Gold Standard unreason and irrationality.!
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December 30, 2014 4:38pm
Lucia Maria

In contrast to what EAD has posted on the Christmas truce, there’s this from XXCommittee

There is scant evidence for Christmas Truce events beyond a few isolated incidents on the Western Front. On the far larger Eastern Front, it seems to have hardly happened at all. Hatred of the enemy ran deeper in the East than in the West, where atrocities were more commonplace. There were incidents of Christmas fraternization — chatting and trading booze and food (and doubtless sharing stories about women) — at Przemyśl, a fortress deep behind Russian lines where over 120,000 Austro-Hungarian troops were trapped. There, both sides were exhausted and morale was low, and along the static siege lines the enemies called it off for a bit as officers averted eyes.

Yet that was very much the exception. A bit to the south of Przemyśl, in the frozen Carpathians, where a million Austro-Hungarian troops were vying for control of vital mountain passes against a million Russians, taking enormous losses in the process, there was no Christmas truce. In fact, in many places the Russians intentionally shelled Austro-Hungarian positions on December 25th to disrupt any seasonal revelry. A couple weeks later, for Orthodox Christmas (which falls in early January), Austro-Hungarian gunners returned the favor, shelling enemy positions “to disturb their Christmas as they disturbed ours,” as one unit diary of the Austro-Hungarian 3rd Army noted. No love was lost there.
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December 30, 2014 4:50pm

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