General Debate 29 December 2014

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mikenmild

What’s politically incorrect about blaming the Krauts, stephie?
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December 29, 2014 2:13pm
wf

The emptying of churches accelerated when people discovered that they could get along in life perfectly well without having to spend their precious Sundays in church atoning for their sins and lightning didn’t strike them down.
They also discovered that they had a few more bob in their pockets, once they avoided the collection plate. From there it was but a short step to not bothering about Sunday School for the kids – who then never developed the Church-on-Sunday habit.

Thank God.
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December 29, 2014 2:16pm
stephieboy

Cha at 1.17pm,

Correct .The usual mob Manolo, Fletch , kowtow , Washington Times etc,etc would certainly be all over it wailing and screeching if it was the President .
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December 29, 2014 2:17pm
stephieboy

milkinmild, when I studied the origins of WW1 many moons ago it was fashionable by a group of historians to blame the allies .!
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December 29, 2014 2:20pm
Kimbo

@ stephieboy

milkinmild, when I studied the origins of WW1 many moons ago it was fashionable by a group of historians to blame the allies .!

If I recall rightly, AJP Taylor blamed them for the outbreak of WWII.
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December 29, 2014 2:22pm
Reid

Oh goody, let’s have some speculation on royal ancestry. Always a fertile field.

What speculation? Haven’t you worked out for yourself decades ago Harry was not a Windsor? He doesn’t look like a Windsor, he doesn’t act like a Windsor. Haven’t you ever seen him on the sports field? Haven’t you noticed his prowess there? Haven’t you ever thought: where did he get the genes from that gave him all those attributes he displays? Has this basic elementary question never occurred to you?
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December 29, 2014 2:23pm
mikenmild

But it’s not just Harry, is it Reid? Haven’t you got some stories about the Queen’s parentage?
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December 29, 2014 2:26pm
Rowan

Kimbo
Yes Wagners second innings economy rate was good, mind you Sri Lanka were going fairly slow, his first innings economy rate was 5.5 which is to high. I just don’t think he is enough of a wicket taking threat and Bracewell would offer more in this regard, I would also put a big question mark around Hamish Rutherford at the top of the order as he has had a lot of chances without very many big scores.
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December 29, 2014 2:27pm
Reid

Haven’t you got some stories about the Queen’s parentage?

You seem to hallucinate I have mm. Why don’t you tell everyone what you think I think. Note however that whatever you say, it’s your hallucination, not my words. So just be clear about that to people when you bray forth, won’t you. There’s a good boy.
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December 29, 2014 2:35pm
Shawn Herles

He largely blames Germany for the consequential catastrophe including defying Belgian neutrality and atrocities committed therein.

37 Days took the same view, so given it’s BBC perhaps the pc status has changed. The defiance of Belgian neutrality was given as the straw that broke the camels back and got Britain into the war, and the blame for that is laid largely, though not totally, at Germany’s feet. Also interesting is that the reason for Germany’s invasion of Belgium was a first attempt at blitzkrieg tactics.
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December 29, 2014 2:38pm
Rowan

Looking at the score updates and yes Rutherford needs to go, just to many failures at the top of the order, how many chances does the guy get? Bring in Dean Brownlie for Wellington or better still Martin Guptill, and send Rutherford back to domestic cricket.
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December 29, 2014 2:48pm
mikenmild

The German mentality was one of feeling so threatened by Russia and France that nothing could be allowed to get in the way of a quick victory over France before they dealt with Russia. So Belgian neutrality was seen as a mere inconvenience and the probability of British intervention dismissed as inconsequential.
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December 29, 2014 2:49pm
stephieboy

Shawn herles,

Blitzkrieg operation i ? Correct the Scheflflin plan involved the German armies going through Belgium then going around and encircling the French.

It failed when the French bought the German advance to a halt at the Marne .From then on , moreorless , stalemate with trench warfare .
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December 29, 2014 2:50pm
Kimbo

@ Rowan

…his first innings economy rate was 5.5 which is to high…

A good example of the problem of plucking stats out and looking at them in isolation.

Matthews and the Sri Lankan tail were throwing the bat at the ball from the pitiful position of 5-88, knowing that if they tried to hang around they were going to be picked off by a still fresh Boult and Southee (they only bowled 11 and 12 overs respectively in the innings). Same thing happened with their tail today. Is a matter of luck if it comes off, no matter who the bowler is.

In the context of dismissing them for 138 in less than 43 overs, a bowlers run rate is not particularly important – especially when he picks up three wickets to knock over the tail.

In the second innings, however, where 154 overs were bowled, the economy rate in context is of much more value.

I would also put a big question mark around Hamish Rutherford at the top of the order as he has had a lot of chances without very many big scores.

On this we are in complete agreement. Failed again in the second innings, unfortunately. Time for Guptill…or Jamie How?
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December 29, 2014 2:56pm
wikiriwhis business

“BILL & MELINDA GATES: Why giving awy our wealth has been the most satisfying thing we have done … ”

Absolutely no one has benefited from this eugenics believing couple.

The history of eugenics in the US is far before Nazi Germany. In fact Hitler was inspired by the US.

Kept a picture of proud fascist Henry Ford on his office desk.
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December 29, 2014 2:57pm
mikenmild

I’d keep Rutherford a we only have one test left for the summer.
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December 29, 2014 2:59pm
wikiriwhis business

“Also interesting is that the reason for Germany’s invasion of Belgium was a first attempt at blitzkrieg tactics.”

So much of WW1 was inspired by the trench warfare of the NZ wars.
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December 29, 2014 2:59pm
wikiriwhis business

“New play alleges Hewitt is Harry’s Dad.”

I was told by a secretary to Margaret Thatcher that Harry was born well before Hewitt came on the scene.
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December 29, 2014 3:02pm
mikenmild

‘So much of WW1 was inspired by the trench warfare of the NZ wars’
Bullshit from James Belich.
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December 29, 2014 3:04pm
Rowan

Kimbo
Don’t believe that Jamie How would be a contender to replace him, he is to old and has already announced that he is retiring at the end of the domestic season. Guptill would be my pick, the other contender is Dean Brownlie who is already in the squad, is he really an opening batsman? He opened in the ODIs in Pakistan but I think generally plays most of his matches at 4 or 5, however Rutherford has been hopeless and he surely can’t be any worse!
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December 29, 2014 3:05pm
cha

Live blogging QZ8501.

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/live-blog-missing-airasia/1554372.html
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December 29, 2014 3:07pm
stephieboy

Reid ,

LBJ: The Mastermind behind JFK’s assisination ??,

Reviews here from Amazon .com that rubbish the amateur author’s spurious claims and factually incorrect on numerous details

http://www.amazon.com/LBJ-The-Mastermind-JFK-Assassination/product-reviews/1620876108/ref=cm_cr_dp_qt_hist_one?ie=UTF8&filterBy=addOneStar&showViewpoints=0
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December 29, 2014 3:07pm
Kimbo

@ wikiriwhis business

So much of WW1 was inspired by the trench warfare of the NZ wars.

No, that is NOT what Jamie Belich concluded. Instead, the generals of WWI were too slow to adapt to changed tactical conditions due to technological developments because they ignored the lessons of the New Zealand wars. And beyond Belich – to a greater extent probably the American Civil War, the first protracted industrial conflict plated out on a grand scale (Crimea was localised).

Thus falsifying the old military maxim: “Generals fight the last war”. Or at least the “last war” Schlieffen had in mind was the Franco-Prussian War of 1870-71, not any campaigns in the US 1861-65 or the relatively insignificant New Zealand campaigns.
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December 29, 2014 3:08pm
Chuck Bird

“Chucky, of course, you KNOW way, way more about risks associated with blood transfusion than the Red Cross, the American Association of Blood Banks, America’s Blood Centers, the American Medical Association, the National Hemophilia Foundation. You just do.”

You and your obsessive mates thought you knew more that is why all the lobbying.

I knew more than the so called experts in NZ when I said it was mad to allow immigrants and refuges with testing them for HIV. The pro-homosexual Clark government stopped such testing. The testing was only reinstated after a number of innocent people got infected.

If the health department wanted to seriously tackle HIV they would make partner notification a requirement and make it a serious criminal offence for anyone who knows they are HIV+ not to tell any prospective partners that they are HIV positive.

Do you think it right that if bisexual who finds he is HIV+ that the health authorities inform his wife?

Militant homosexuals say no that she should have insisted he where a condom.

Sadly both National and Labour compete for homosexual votes and put innocent members of the public at risk.
+
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December 29, 2014 3:12pm
stephieboy

milkinmild , with respect to James Bellich what inspired trench warfare in WW 1 was in fact the machine gun which effectively made rapidly advancing horse Calvary mobility redundant over night .

Only the ank was able to overcome this ,combined with areial bombardment ,as the German’s discovered initially in WW 2
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December 29, 2014 3:13pm
wikiriwhis business

“to a greater extent probably the American Civil War”

I can’t see how the US civil war could be anywhere near compared to WW1

Was more comparable to Napoleonic warfare and minute men standing in harms way face to face.
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December 29, 2014 3:14pm
Rowan

Kimbo
In terms of looking at statistics in isolation, look at Mitchell Johnsons bowling performance in the Australia India test, he finished with 3 wickets 2 of which were the nos 10 and 11 and for most of yesterday was chucking down meat pies and regularly going at over 4 an over. Which statistic do you look at, The 3 wickets or the 130 odd runs conceded?
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December 29, 2014 3:15pm
mikenmild

As I recall, Belich’s claim was that Maori ‘invented’ trench warfare. The development of the modern pa systems in the Northern War was indeed remarkable, but Belich typically went a bit too far in overstating his case.
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December 29, 2014 3:17pm
Kimbo

@ stephieboy

Reid ,

LBJ: The Mastermind behind JFK’s assisination ??,

Now, now, stephieboy. Kindly stop hallucinating. That is NOT what Reid said:

Or perhaps these two bios of Johnson, which describes his role in JFK. Who better than the man who would appoint the commission which would “investigate” the assassination.

Although to be honest given that Reid doesn’t seem to have grappled with the “what does he say/mean/so-what” test that is usually and rightly applied to most forms of polemical communication, I don’t want to hang around and take the time to learn what it is Reid precisely (to quote his own word) “think(s)”
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December 29, 2014 3:19pm
Kimbo

@ Rowan

Kimbo
In terms of looking at statistics in isolation, look at Mitchell Johnsons bowling performance in the Australia India test, he finished with 3 wickets 2 of which were the nos 10 and 11 and for most of yesterday was chucking down meat pies and regularly going at over 4 an over. Which statistic do you look at, The 3 wickets or the 130 odd runs conceded?

In the context of Mitchell Johnson, Aussie’s no. 1 strike bowler (so he gets his choice of ends and the new ball), in an innings where India scored 465 off 128.5 overs @ 3.60RPO, and Johnson bowled 30.5 of those @ 4.37, and of the three wickets only one (admittedly Kohli) was not a tail ender (and the Indian tail is notoriously fragile)

…the 135 runs
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December 29, 2014 3:28pm
mikenmild

Thinking of test cricket for a moment now before we all concentrate on the World Cup, 2015 should be a big year for NZ, with away series against England, Sri Lanka and Australia. New Zealand can look at that prospect with quiet confidence after their 2014 form.
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December 29, 2014 3:31pm
stephieboy

It was the Maxim machine gun that slaughtered hundreds of thousands that revolutioned warfare in WW1 making baynet and Calvary charges suicidal and effectively redundant.

It forced armies into dug in defensive lines relying instead on largely artillery bombardments in attempt to make headway.

https://medium.com/war-is-boring/maxims-machine-gun-slaughtered-hundreds-of-thousands-of-people-f9e068f5148

Ok kimbio I Might be mistaken but with a CTer like Reid often hard to tell .
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December 29, 2014 3:31pm
Rowan

Kimbo
If you haven’t already noticed Stupidboy is a conspiracy theorist and seldom stops to think before posting rubbish here on GD, it would be very good if he were to step back, think and apply brain first but that seldom appears to happen. Here’s hoping!
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December 29, 2014 3:32pm
Shawn Herles

I can’t see how the US civil war could be anywhere near compared to WW1

Kimbo is right. While the Civil War started out in traditional fashion, it became what is likely the first industrialized war on a major scale.

The American Civil War was one of the earliest true industrial wars. Railroads, the telegraph, steamships, and mass-produced weapons were employed extensively. The mobilization of civilian factories, mines, shipyards, banks, transportation and food supplies all foreshadowed World War I. It remains the deadliest war in American history, resulting in the deaths of an estimated 750,000 soldiers and an undetermined number of civilian casualties.[N 2] One estimate of the death toll is that ten percent of all Northern males 20–45 years old, and 30 percent of all Southern white males aged 18–40 perished.[10] From 1861 to 1865 about 620,000 soldiers lost their lives. It was perhaps one of the bloodiest wars in U. S history. [11]

The Civil War prompted the industrial revolution and subsequently many naval innovations emerged during this time, most notably the advent of the ironclad warship. It began when the Confederacy, knowing they had to meet or match the Union’s naval superiority, responded to the Union blockade by building or converting more than 130 vessels, including twenty-six ironclads and floating batteries.[155] Only half of these saw active service. Many were equipped with ram bows, creating “ram fever” among Union squadrons wherever they threatened. But in the face of overwhelming Union superiority and the Union’s own ironclad warships, they were unsuccessful.[156]

The Confederacy experimented with a submarine, which did not work well,[157] and with building an ironclad ship, the CSS Virginia, which was based on rebuilding a sunken Union ship, the Merrimack. On its first foray on March 8, 1862, the Virginia decimated the Union’s wooden fleet, but the next day the first Union ironclad, the USS Monitor, arrived to challenge it. The Battle of the Ironclads was a draw, but it marks the worldwide transition to ironclad warships.[158]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Civil_War
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December 29, 2014 3:48pm
Kimbo

@ wikiriwhis business

I can’t see how the US civil war could be anywhere near compared to WW1

Was more comparable to Napoleonic warfare and minute men standing in harms way face to face.

Look a bit closer. The Napoleonic Wars were a series on on-again off-again campaigns and skirmishes, admittedly of greatly increasing scale and on both land and sea (the latter characteristic was like the American Civil War too, as well as the Great War).

However, the reason it was on-again off-again was because it was the last major war fought before the Industrial Revolution had taken effect. The American Civil War was on the other side of that divide. So while the major campaigns were still fought, as always, in summer (or inadvertently extended disastrously into winter as with Napoleon in Russia in 1812), there was no respite, truce, or false peace in 1861-65 or 1914-18 as there had been in the Napoloenic Wars. Which meant that, as with the Confederates in 1865, a major factor in the defeat of the Central Powers in 1918 was the effect of attrition and destruction of a nation’s entire economic infrastructure – again attributable to industrialisation.

Plus industrialsation before the advent of reliable and fast non-rail transport and wireless communication actually favoured the defensive in both the American Civil and Great Wars. Hence the high death tolls such as Antietam, Picketts charge, and Verdun/the Somme/Passchendaele. That was not the case in the Napoleonic Wars, certainly not initially anyway. Napoleon’s victory at Austerlitz would be one example. Almost impossible to repeat 50 or 100 years later due to the radical techological developments.
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December 29, 2014 3:49pm
wat dabney

wikiriwhis,

“Absolutely no one has benefited from this eugenics believing couple. ”

You really do spout the stupidest crap don’t you.

http://www.gatesfoundation.org/What-We-Do

Really, just responding to your wilfully ignorant rantings makes one feel dirty.

“The history of eugenics in the US is far before Nazi Germany. In fact Hitler was inspired by the US. ”

Indeed. Fabians and assorted Lefties had been advocating eugenics long before the Socialist Hitler came to power.
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December 29, 2014 4:04pm
EAD

The American Civil War can be compared to the Napoleonic Wars which can also be compared to World War I and also World War II for the reasons as explained in this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hfEBupAeo4

George Orwell knew what the cause of these wars were when he said “War against a foreign country only happens when the moneyed classes think they are going to profit from it”

Like Michael Rivero notes below, many people have a great deal of difficulty comprehending just how many wars are started for no other purpose than to force private central banks onto nations:

http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/allwarsarebankerwars.php#axzz3NFljFulA
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December 29, 2014 4:17pm
Hugh Pavletich

CHRISTCHURCH BUREAUCRATS GET CANED … CHECK COMMENTS …

THE “PEOPLES REPUBLIC OF CHRISTCHURCH’ LEARNING THE HARD WAY …

Red tape stymies CBD farm and celebrity eatery … Cecile Meier & Tess McClure … The press

http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/business/the-rebuild/64486182/Red-tape-stymies-CBD-farm-and-celebrity-eatery

… and what needs to be done …

Christchurch: The Way Forward | Scoop News

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/AK1206/S00251/christchurch-the-way-forward.htm

Does Dame Jenny of the CERA Transition Team understand ?

Jenny Shipley: Canterbury must ‘keep momentum’ … Lois Cairns … The Press

http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/64485087/Jenny-Shipley-Canterbury-must-keep-momentum

Hugh Pavletich
Co-author Annual Demographia International Housing Affordability Survey
http://www.performanceurbanplanning.org/ & http://info.scoop.co.nz/Hugh_Pavletich
Christchurch
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December 29, 2014 4:24pm
Odakyu-sen

Chew on this!

Imperial Russia was only halfway through her reforms when war came (followed by revolution). By the early 1920s she would have been a very different bear.

“The persistent myth of Tsarist government corruption and incompetence; in the seven years prior to 1914, Russia recorded not only the most rapid industrial and economic growth of all of Europe, but also Russia’s greatest rate of growth for the entire twentieth century. Prior to 1914, Russia was the world’s leading exporter of wheat, a position that it never regained; the money generated by those exports, along with massive foreign loans, principally from France, was the driving force of the rapid growth in Russian industry and infrastructure.”

Russia was rapidly heading towards superpower status.

“With a little luck, Russia could have caused the complete collapse of the Austrian front and won at Tannenberg. In 1915, that would have been almost guaranteed. In 1920, certainly so. The effects on the neutrals (Italy, Romania, Bulgaria and the Ottomans in particular) would have been decisive. Once the Russians had knocked out the Austrians, the Italians and Romanians would have plunged in for the spoils and the Ottomans and Bulgarians stayed out. The war would probably have been over in six months at most.”

“The British might be added to the big time losers as well. With Russia able to destroy Germany at her leisure and aching for revenge against the British for a whole host of reasons (the Crimean War, the Congress of Berlin, the Japanese War to name but a few) the Russians may be inclined to entice Germany with huge chunks of Britain’s colonial Empire for India. Might take until 1925, but time was definitely on Russia’s side.”

If WWI had been staved off by another couple of years…
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December 29, 2014 4:33pm
mikenmild

But the Germans wanted war in 1914…
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December 29, 2014 4:35pm
Rupert Tree

Bill Gates:

Through the foundation, Bill, Melinda and Microsoft maintain pharmaceutical patent investments, tobacco investments, investments in alcoholic beverages, petroleum investments, investments in experimental and controversial crops, and even investments in news/media.

Gates need not even pay tax, though he keeps control of the assets and uses that control to influence private and public policy.

Money talks and politicians can in turn be persuaded to buy from Microsoft. This dependence/lock-in cascades down to businesses and homes, creating a revenue stream that would not exist in a free market.

Gates is also able to bring public money to himself through energy and public health policy. As Gates has diversified, his corrupting influence has spread to other portions of the economy. http://bit.ly/1JX4dvn
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December 29, 2014 5:02pm
dime

gee milky, only 20 comments on the GD today.. out of 140. riveting stuff.

out of those 20, only about 15 were snide one liners.

try going outside or making a friend offline.
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December 29, 2014 5:10pm
mikenmild

Fuck off, or better still, tell us in tedious detail again about glazing your Christmas ham.
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December 29, 2014 5:12pm
Kimbo

@ dime & mikenmild

Fuck off, or better still, tell us in tedious detail again about glazing your Christmas ham

Sorry to interrupt you two consenting adults, especially when you are talking dirty to one another and engaging in rough foreplay, but is “glazing your Christmas ham” a euphemism?
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December 29, 2014 5:21pm
Odakyu-sen

Perhaps the NZ Police should concentrate on water safety rather than the zero speed tolerance. More people are drowning than are dying in road accidents, it seems. (Need to check the figures.)
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December 29, 2014 5:23pm
SGA

@kimbo
snap – wasn’t sure how literal to take mm’s comment. With a character as colourful as dime, either was possible.
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December 29, 2014 5:24pm
Hugh Pavletich

Bill Gates : Teachers Need Real Feedback … TedX

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81Ub0SMxZQo

Published on May 8, 2013

Until recently, many teachers only got one word of feedback a year: “satisfactory.” And with no feedback, no coaching, there’s just no way to improve. Bill Gates suggests that even great teachers can get better with smart feedback — and lays out a program from his foundation to bring it to every classroom.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81Ub0SMxZQo
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December 29, 2014 5:28pm
mikenmild

mikenmild has had a busy day today. In between spells of watching two of the Boxing Day tests, he has been to the shops twice and done a lot a gardening. It’s time for mikenmild’s first beer now – he only drinks the expensive craft beers, mind – before he will favour Kiwibloggers by a few more comments in the third person.
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December 29, 2014 5:29pm
cha

Presented a firearm yet wasn’t shot, wonder why….

Eventually, officers stopped and arrested Shields at Cloverdale Drive and Koblan Drive, near the spot where the shootings occurred and just blocks from her house. She pointed her firearm at an officer, but was taken into custody without incident or injury, the release stated.

http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/local/story/2014/dec/28/womshoots-hixsneighborhood/280032/
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December 29, 2014 5:47pm
mikenmild

‘Shields, blonde and wearing body armor’
Must have been the body armour, cha, would’ve been futile to shoot her…
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December 29, 2014 5:51pm
Manolo

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/12/28/obama-america-less-racially-divided-since-took-office-in-200/

Only an imbecile could believe the Messiah.
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December 29, 2014 6:21pm
waikatogirl

Rachael: All blood is tested anyway…

**
I don’t have a problem with homosexuals or any other group giving blood. It would be beneficial to others to abstain from giving if dangerous lifestyle, or drug taking, etc would lead to being denied as a blood donor. It would be nice to believe that those with concerns stepped aside from giving.

There is always the old safety net of saying you are taking antibiotics or some other usual excuse.

It would be nice if more people could give a much needed blood donation, especially of the rare types.
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December 29, 2014 6:41pm
Hugh Pavletich

SGA … way back at 9.01 …

This earlier biography on Bill Gates may be of interest, in explaining his High School and Harvard experiences … well worthwhile viewing …

Life Story Of Bill Gates … Biography … YouTube

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fO2u-uxVBIc
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December 29, 2014 7:18pm
Chuck Bird

@waikatogirl

The blood is tested. However, there is no 100% guarantee so high risk groups have been excluded.

If someone was a closet homosexual it would be easy for them to decline or donate and phone in late and have their blood destroyed.

I knew a woman who was married for many years to a closet homosexual. She somehow found he was a bisexual and told him to get texted and he was positive. Fortunately, she was not infected by this low life.

To the time the window between infection and being confident of a negative test was over 3 months. She had a very worried 3 months. The window is now meant to be about 10 days. That is the reason for reducing the the deferral period to a year.

In the early 80s before the link between homosexuals and HIV was positively established the hobby sexual lobbied against homosexuals’ blood being excluded about 1100 got HIV and died and about 60,000 got Hep C.

The militant homosexuals like eszett still are not happy and want active homosexuals who say they are in a monogamous relationship to be able to donate blood.

eszatt and his evil mates are happy to put the NZ public at risk to score a political point.
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December 29, 2014 8:42pm
Rachael Membery

Chuck Bird (4,932 comments) says:

December 29th, 2014 at 8:42 pm

Anyone can lie on the form and to the nurse. Not I believe for any evil purpose but because they think they are fine and that giving blood is a good community minded thing to do. The questions on the form are not questions that you would always know the answers to regarding the sexual history of partners casual or long term as in your example.

It is all best guess, having been potentially exposed to mad cow disease in the UK etc is also a please do not donate area.
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December 29, 2014 9:24pm
Kiwi Dave

Possibly the Russo-Japanese war was was more influential than the US civil war. It was more recent and extensively observed by military correspondents and European officers. However, despite the obvious effectiveness of modern military technology in defence, the Japanese won and their victory was attributed to their offensive spirit and willingness to take casualties. It took about three years for WW1 generals to unlearn this lesson and find alternatives.
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December 29, 2014 9:34pm
eszett

The militant homosexuals like eszett still are not happy and want active homosexuals who say they are in a monogamous relationship to be able to donate blood.

eszatt and his evil mates are happy to put the NZ public at risk to score a political point.

Hey Chucky, could you please explain what “militant homosexuals” are? This is word creation you have been throwing around every time you run out of arguments.

The irony is, that the only person trying to score any kind of political point is you. You are not interested in facts or figures or in a safe blood supply. You one overarching and permanent is obsession are homosexuals. You are merely using blood donation as a proxy to vent your hatred.

“Evil mates” and “militant homosexuals” are not the vocabulary of someone who has reason on his side. It shows that you are completely irrational on this subject and inaccessible to any arguments.
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December 29, 2014 9:59pm
Reid

eszett I’m a Type 2 diabetic therefore on permanent medication therefore unable to give blood. Had I been in the UK prior to something like 1993 then due to the foot and mouth there I similarly wouldn’t have been able to even if I weren’t a diabetic.

If I was gay I would accept this puts me into an at-risk group for a disease that IS a public health risk, namely aids.

I would know this acceptance of mine has nothing to do with discwimination of any shape or form, and I wouldn’t pretend it was.

I frankly find it disgraceful if some people in an at risk group are prepared to put others at risk simply because they hallucinate the definition of the at risk grouping is a form of discwimination rather than what it actually is, simple science.

In fact, if I were other people who also belonged to that at risk group, then personallly, I’d be loudly and vigorously condemning those mistaken and indeed, fucked-in-the-head souls, for being so fucking mental.

And one notes this is PRECISELY the same argument that is used against Muslims who don’t condemn terrorism.

So tell us eszett, I haven’t been following the argument, but are you one of the at-risk group who ~~believe~~ hallucinate this is a form of discwimination, or are you part of the solution?
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December 29, 2014 10:38pm
eszett

Reid, you have Type 2 diabetic.
Being gay does not mean you have aids.

Sexual practices is what puts you at risk of getting HIV, not the fact that you are gay.
Do you honestly think that the blood of a 40 year old gay man in a steady partnership is more risky than a 25 year old straight dude who just shagged himself silly last weekend?

Why does one have a blanket ban and the other is free to donate blood at any time.

As I said before, I have no problem of having screenings or discriminating against certain groups as long as it is based of facts and science and evidence.

If the Red Cross, the American Association of Blood Banks, America’s Blood Centers, the American Medical Association, the National Hemophilia Foundation all think a blanket ban on gay men is not scientifically justified, why not reconsider it.
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December 29, 2014 11:05pm
Reid

Being gay does not mean you have aids.

No but just like an intravenous drug user, you’re at risk of getting a blood disease.

Sadly eszett the sexuality you have is a risk factor. Science says it’s a risk, so it is. There is no possible argument or mitigation. There it is. Plain and simple. Period.

One understands you’re trying to distance yourself from being in the same category as the lifestyles of intravenous drug users and prostitutes and that’s fine. Homosexuality is not the same as either of those.

But fact is: science says, therefore it is. Period.

So think of something else to do – big fucking deal – if you’re gay, you just can’t give blood. What the fuck is wrong with that? Why can’t you just live with that?

If the Red Cross, the American Association of Blood Banks, America’s Blood Centers, the American Medical Association, the National Hemophilia Foundation all think a blanket ban on gay men is not scientifically justified, why not reconsider it.

For the same reason some groups pretend the planet is about to incinerate itself eszett. PC psychobabble bullshit abounds in all sorts of places.
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December 29, 2014 11:14pm
chiz

Eszett isn’t gay, Reid.
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December 29, 2014 11:20pm
Reid

Eszett isn’t gay, Reid.

Makes no difference to the arguments I used chiz.
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December 29, 2014 11:29pm
eszett

One understands you’re trying to distance yourself from being in the same category as the lifestyles of intravenous drug users and prostitutes and that’s fine. Homosexuality is not the same as either of those.

But fact is: science says, therefore it is. Period.

Actually it doesn’t. And that’s the point, Reid.

So think of something else to do – big fucking deal – if you’re gay, you just can’t give blood. What the fuck is wrong with that? Why can’t you just live with that?

I take it you don’t really donate blood, do you?

People who wish to donate blood do it for all sorts of reasons. They are not evil people, they want to participate in society and do what’s right. And we do need to have people donate blood and we have to ensure that it is safe.

Therefore you need appropriate and robust measures to enable as many people as you can to donate blood if they wish to do so, while maintaining a a robust screening method to minimise risk (you will never eliminate all risk, no matter what you do)

If a blanket ban on male homosexuals is no longer an appropriate method to achieve those goals then you should revise it.

For the same reason some groups pretend the planet is about to incinerate itself eszett. PC psychobabble bullshit abounds in all sorts of places.

Of course you then use “the argument” that it’s not science, that’s it’s caving in to a “lobby group”, bla, bla, bla. It’s the same old story.
If the facts go against you, well, the facts then must be wrong, falsified, faked. Because you know you are right. You just do.

If 9 out of 10 oncologist tell you that you have a treatable cancer and you should use chemotherapy, but 1 tells you’ll be fine.
Do you then claim that the 9 are all in a conspiracy, making up all the test results and are pressured by big pharma to sell you chemo?

How come you trusted your diagnoses that you have Type 2 diabetes and that you need medication for the rest of your life? How do you know it’s not all a conspiracy to get you to finance to lifestyle of your doctor and the big pharma bosses?
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December 30, 2014 12:17am
Harriet

“…..Do you honestly think that the blood of a 40 year old gay man in a steady partnership is more risky than a 25 year old straight dude who just shagged himself silly last weekend?
Why does one have a blanket ban and the other is free to donate blood at any time…….”

LOL Eszett – it’s the practise itself that spreads the disease, vaginas statisticly don’t spread aids – backsides do. It’s science. Backsides tear easily and vaginas don’t.

That’s why lesbians don’t have such high rates of aids compared to gay males – as you know!

Go and look at the rates from US Gay Health Eszett – or from anywhere – gay males are irresponsable when it comes to sexual healthcare, and that’s why they have such high rates of aids – as they don’t wear condoms with strangers.

Gay males are most at risk of aids ect – yet they are shown to take the least precautions. I don’t understand why they practise in such a dangerous way, so that is why I support the idea of PAYG sexual healthcare[like dentistry] as it will be another mechanism that will help gays to take charge of their personal health. Socialised sexual healthcare has failed gay males.

If gays – or anyone else- are irresponsable, then they pay up.
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December 30, 2014 7:32am
mikenmild

Financial penalties targeted at groups would not be an effective means of promoting overall welfare. But they might make bigots like Harriet feel better about their fascination with homosexuals males.
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December 30, 2014 7:37am
eszett

LOL Eszett – it’s the practise itself that spreads the disease, vaginas statisticly don’t spread aids – backsides do. It’s science. Backsides tear easily and vaginas don’t.

Oh dear, harriet. And you start that with a LOL. How ironic.
I think you may need to read up a bit more about HIV and how it can spread. Such ignorance is what is truly dangerous. Large parts of Africa have such an AIDS epidemic precisely because of such ignorant attitudes.

http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/policies/law/risk.html

http://www.aidsmeds.com/articles/Transmission_9963.shtml
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December 30, 2014 7:43am
Chuck Bird

Racheal, I can debate the issues with you as you will respond to question unlike eszatt who just wants to engage in personal attacks while cowardly hiding behind a pseudonym.

The link below tells the Canadian experience and why they have a five year ban.

http://www.ctvnews.ca/health/health-headlines/canada-lifts-ban-on-gay-men-donating-blood-must-be-abstinent-for-5-years-1.1291754

People who donate blood are not evil. Many people who lobby for a change in blood donation policy putting people at risk to score a political point are.

As you are a women let me ask you some questions.

Do you think if a bisexual married man tested positive for HIV his wife should be notified so she can be tested and if necessary treated?

MP Kevin Hague when he was director of the NZ AIDS thought that while the man should be encouraged to tell his wife but in the end the decision was his and his privacy should trump his wife’s safety. I presume the man would separate and not continue to have sex with his wife as if he did not use a condom it would be illegal. So if that happened she could unknowingly put her future sexual partners at risk.

If eszett is not a homosexual as Chiz claims and is just a nutty libertarian his logic is badly flawed.

Firstly, there will never be a testing system that will 100% safe as there will never be a 100% safe aircraft. That is why blood services around the world use a questionnaire as well as lab tests.

eszett asks, “Do you honestly think that the blood of a 40 year old gay man in a steady partnership is more risky than a 25 year old straight dude who just shagged himself silly last weekend?”

My answer is clearly yes on a statistical basis and that is the view of most blood services around the world that still have a deferral period for homosexuals.

In NZ the chance of a man being infected by a woman who is not from a high risk country would be minimal. However, many homosexual men in what they thought was a monogamous relationship have become infected. These are facts not theory.

It is outrageous the amount of influence homosexuals have on sexual health policy. Every now and them we hear of outraged parents when then find out what Rainbow Youth have told the children when invited into a school. When the principal finds out he or she apologises and says it will not happen again but it does elsewhere.

Here is a fact that morons like eszett ignore. Condoms do not prevent the transmission of the HIV virus but only reduce the risk. Sex is not practised in a lab but often in the dark were both partners have had a lot to drink.

The idea of allowing homosexuals in a so called monogamous relationship is madness and hopefully some that NZ Blood Services will not consider. However, if no one says anything it could happen.

http://www.nzblood.co.nz/assets/News/Final-report-to-NZBS-behavioural-donor-deferral-criteria-review.pdf
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December 30, 2014 8:26am
Chuck Bird

eszett, Read Sexual Ecology: AIDS and the Destiny of Gay Men is a book by Gabriel Rotello who is himself homosexual and then you may know a little about the spread of HIV. NZ is not part of Africa.
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December 30, 2014 8:32am
eszett

Yeah, Chucky that explains a lot. Maybe you should read something that doesn’t just confirm you preconceived notions. There’s a radical thought.

Again, it shows how you are conflating issues of HIV spread in general and blood donation screening and homosexuality.
A viewed through through your lens of hatred towards homosexuals.

NZ is indeed not a part of Africa, neither is it a part of the US, but you seem quite happy to quote US statistics.

HIV doesn’t know whether you are gay or straight or in Africa or the US or NZ.
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December 30, 2014 8:59am
Chuck Bird

“Again, it shows how you are conflating issues of HIV spread in general and blood donation screening and homosexuality.”

Debate the issues and stop trying to pretend you are a mind reader.

“A viewed through through your lens of hatred towards homosexuals.”

Not true, I have a strong dislike for homosexual lobbyist who want put public health at risk and diddle with the minds of adolescent school boys with such groups as rainbow youth.
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December 30, 2014 9:49am

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