General Debate 22 December 2014

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General Debate

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Viking2

Please, take care of yourself this Christmas. A recent joint study conducted by the Department of Health and the Department of Motor Vehicles indicates that 23% of traffic accidents are alcohol related.

This means that the remaining 77% are caused by boutique assholes who drink bottled water, Poofter Latte Coffee, Tosser soda,nerd juice, wank energy drinks and shit like that.
Therefore, beware of those who do not drink alcohol. They cause three times as many accidents.
This message is sent to you by someone who worries about your safety.
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December 22, 2014 10:14pm
Nookin

Maggie
You are truly seeing her true colours tonight. The so called due diligence is nothing but an opportunity to engage in dirty ad hom abuse. Her whole MO is based on self aggrandisement and denigration of others. The sheer bloody arrogance of the asumption that her critics do not contribute to public causes, in their own way, is staggering.
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December 22, 2014 10:40pm
Nostalgia-NZ

Crikey, you’ve come right out admitted that you’re staggering nookin, fighting over a city in which you don’t reside. You got a fair measure of indignation in that post. Bloody good work. Maybe you are beginning to build up to what you really want to say. Or perhaps you are a trifle too constrained. Why not just spit the dummy instead of dribbling on the issue, for so long. Your clear obsession with Penny is more evident than you may realise. Somehow if you let yourself get to the real point, instead of beating yourself around the bush, you might finally succeed, even take Penny on in the next Mayoral race. Why, who knows. Penny might even consider letting you a room, no water of course, but only while you’re on the campaign trail.
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December 22, 2014 11:06pm
Nookin

Nostalgia
My issue is not with her campaign. My issue is with the way she is here for the sole purpose of provoking and denigrating. In case you have missed it, by far the greater percentage of commenters who engage with her are of the same view.

Perhaps you could point out in my post where I said I was staggering? I thought my comment was relatively clear.

I might also point out that over the weekend I endeavoured to engage her in a debate over one of her arguments and, apart from a snarky side swipe there was no response. Penny is not here to debate or convert to the cause. She is here to antagonise and does so successfully – at the same time destroying any chance to debate important issues. Why else, Nostalgia, does she repeatedly say that she knows that she is on the right track when she gets an angry or counter punching response?
Obsession? Hardly. I ignore her for the most part. She just happens to be ruining GD at times I tune in. That is my real point. And I do not have to be a ratepayer in Auckland to be qualified to make it. As far as MO is concerned vis a vis the validity of my comment above — just read the thread.
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December 22, 2014 11:34pm
publicwatchdog

Oh diddums – poor wee Nookin – hasn’t yet grasped that the concept of ‘General Debate’ is to DEBATE?

Like so many other Kiwibloggers – who wouldn’t make the hair on a genuine Liberterian’s bottom – when they can’t handle the jandal and debate the issues, they get personally nasty, abusive and, in some cases, such as GUTLESS ‘Freemark’ – simply defamatory.

Desperate stuff, which proves I must be on the right track – because you don’t ‘cop the flak – unless you’re over the target’ 🙂

Hey – have you seen the recent press release from Mike Lee, former Chair of the Auckland Regional Council (ARC) on the Auckland ‘Supercity’?

Strongly recommend folks from the Greater
Wellington region have a read for yourselves ….

Kind regards and sweet dreams 🙂

Penny Bright

http://www.pennybright4mayor.org.nz
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December 23, 2014 12:28am
Nostradamus

Nookin:

This comment will explain where Nostalgia-NZ is coming from:

Nostalgia-NZ (5,323 comments) says:
October 10th, 2014 at 9:57 am

IGM, I thought that Penny wasn’t paying her water rates. If that is the case why would the Council keep contributing to the debt if indeed they kept supplying water. I pay rates but in principle I reject the Council being heavy handed against the few that may not. And that isn’t just because they put small signs near storm water drains warning that tonnes of plastic, silt and other debris may go into the harbour through drains all over the city that could be easily filtered – at a lot less cost than trying to clean it up later. Strong feelings of course but pays to pick one’s fights. That’s what Penny has done, I admit I wouldn’t want to put my family under such pressure – though on the other hand I don’t begrudge her the right to take a stand against a raging, and going by the antics of the Mayor, at least morally corrupt, monolith overburdened with debt and surplus staff.

The key sentence is in bold: “I pay rates but in principle I reject the Council being heavy handed against the few that may not”.

Now, in my view, Auckland City isn’t being heavy-handed.

The first reason is that (in my view) Penny has no case. Here’s a matter I’ve previously raised with Penny. She alleges (purportedly as a defence to her rates obligation) that Auckland City isn’t complying with section 17(1) of the Public Records Act 2005.

Section 17(1) states:

Every public office and local authority must create and maintain full and accurate records of its affairs, in accordance with normal, prudent business practice, including the records of any matter that is contracted out to an independent contractor.

I’ve previously asked Penny to provide proof (to an evidential standard that would be accepted in a court of law) that Auckland City is failing to create and maintain full and accurate records of its affairs in accordance with normal, prudent business practice. Penny has never provided anything – let alone anything approaching the standard of proof.

Penny relies on this Archives New Zealand document in support of her case. But that document doesn’t support Penny’s claim:

3.3 Normal, Prudent Business Practice

In the context of the Public Records Act 2005, the phrase ‘normal, prudent business practice’ appears in s17(1) where it is part of the requirement on public offices and local authorities to create and maintain full and accurate records of their affairs.

This standard will establish the minimum requirements for developing a recordkeeping framework for the creation and maintenance of records as part of ‘normal, prudent business practice’. Establishing how these principles are applied depends on an organisation’s functions. An organisation’s functions will be defined by an evaluation of core business activities and may be stated in any enabling legislation or foundation documentation.

The standard requires that the public office and local authority create and maintain records of their affairs to allow them to meet their statutory, contractual and accountability obligations both for the present, and as an on-going entity. It does not mean that every work-related conversation or act of correspondence must be identified, recorded and retained. It is the records which document a transaction, business action or business decision that must be identified, captured and maintained as evidence of the business process or outcome. Not every record must be retained. General Disposal Authorities (GDAs) allow routine disposal of records of short-term value or records that do not need to be maintained at all.

The second reason why Auckland City isn’t being heavy-handed is that (based on publicly-available information) they’ve exhausted all other options. Details of the Auckland City letter to Penny are here. The law is set out >here.

And then, Nookin, you’ve raised the further issue that there’s no statutory provision that says you don’t have to pay rates if the rates notice is somehow defective.

But, of course, Penny won’t engage with any of these issues. Which begs the question why people bother engaging with her on a daily basis.
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December 23, 2014 12:57am
Nookin

Penelope, take a few days off for introspective thought and reflect on how you go about your crusades.

What you do is not debate. There are also those who respond to you who do not debate either. And you and they stuff it up for the rest of the kiwiblog community.

Now, if you put aside your belligerence and preconceived views that everyone here is a redneck executive troughing at public funds you might find that there are those who will engage with you constructively. You might even find that an exchange of views on legal issues might just be beneficial. There are many here who are happy to debate legal issues. There are countless more people who have no truck with Auckland City and who would take secret delight in seeing its excesses exposed. I know that there are such people, outside Kiwiblog, because I have spoken to them. Unfortunately, you have alienated all those people when that is the last should you should be doing.

Martyrdom is not what you think it is Penny. Think about it. If you want to scorn what I say then so be it. If you are going to tilt mindlessly at whatever windmill offends you, go for it. Sadly, I fear, this might all end in tears.
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December 23, 2014 6:59am
All_on_Red

I thought persistent trolling like she does was sufficient to get you banned on here? Do we all have to complain to get rid of her.
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December 23, 2014 7:04am
Nostalgia-NZ

I couldn’t resist nookin. Merry Christmas.
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December 23, 2014 7:12am
Nookin

And you, Nostalgia. Cheers.
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December 23, 2014 7:39am

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