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November 9, 2014 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 9 November 2014

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Nostalgia-NZ

Keeping Stock 9.04: Has been a great series. I don’t think the Kiwis deserved to get home against Samoa, tonight’s test Samoa against Aussie could be a beauty. Frank Prichard is a dangerous player out wide and on defence and Samoa deserve a win. Kiwis looked a better team last night, so maybe they didn’t peak early as appeared to be the case in Whangarei last weekend.

It took 40 minutes for the AB’s pack to settle. We are looking strong in the tight toward the end of the season. I’m relatively shocked by the impact SBW has made so soon after his return. Before both games and the ‘outrage’ that the ‘politically correct’ bsers take on the haka and physical sports generally it didn’t seem worth drawing the notable comparison for 2 English team last night to be reminded of Gate Pa, but there we have it – the tactic of blunting overwhelming power and finally taking victory.

Some one up thread asked about Hunt’s chances. I’d say very good. He has his own style now, that of an older fighter with confidence in his power. He’s a virtual Kauri stump on legs, tough and hard. I don’t know but because I don’t follow it closely but there has been comment about possible shortcomings in his arsenal when fighting on the ground, for that reason alone he’ll be looking to take the ju jitsu experts lights out early.
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November 9, 2014 1:56pm
Longknives

What planet does this Andrea Vance person live on???

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/10722683/Inflating-the-terrorism-risk

Does she not have any idea what is going on World-Wide? Why only yesterday a couple of her beloved ‘Peaceful Muslims’ tried to assassinate our Queen!
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November 9, 2014 2:00pm
MT_Tinman

The globetrotting franchise scored more points than the representative English team.

That’s the point of the game isn’t it?

Nothing else about it is worth discussing.
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November 9, 2014 2:04pm
Hugh Pavletich

NEW ZEALAND TV ONE SUNDAY TONIGHT 9 NOV … HOUSING BUBBLE

… Watch tonight …

Sunday: November 9 – TV News Video … HOUSING BUBBLE

http://tvnz.co.nz/sunday-news/november-9-video-6124600

https://www.facebook.com/SundayTVNZ

… further information …

Using land for housing | Productivity Commission of New Zealand

http://www.productivity.govt.nz/inquiry-content/2060?stage=2

New Zealand seeks to avoid “generation rent” | Wendell Cox | MacroBusiness

http://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2014/10/new-zealand-seeks-to-avoid-generation-rent/

New Zealand’s Bubble Economy Is Vulnerable | Hugh Pavletich | Scoop News

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL1404/S00166/new-zealands-bubble-economy-is-vulnerable-hugh-pavletich.htm

2014 10th Annual Demographia International Housing Affordability Survey

http://www.demographia.com/dhi.pdf

… distribute & discuss … thank you …

Hugh Pavletich
http://www.performanceurbanplanning.org/ & http://info.scoop.co.nz/Hugh_Pavletich
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November 9, 2014 2:08pm
Harriet

10yld loses it:

“….The family of a US boy accused of beating a 90-year-old woman to death because she yelled at him are so traumatised they do not want him to come home from jail.

Tristen Kurilla, 10, allegedly told Pennsylvania police “I killed that lady” after he was arrested last Saturday over the fatal bashing of an elderly woman staying with his grandfather.

Tristen is accused of pinning Helen Novak with a cane to her throat and repeatedly punching her to death in a rage after she yelled at him.

He has been charged as an adult with criminal homicide and remains in custody at a county prison in isolation from other inmates.

Detectives who searched the boy’s prison cell on Wednesday reportedly discovered a notebook with the words “how to escape” written on it.

The family’s lawyer Bernard Brown this week filed a petition to have Tristen returned into his family’s custody or moved to a juvenile detention centre….”

There’s recent photos of him with his mum and siblings at the link:

http://www.9news.com.au/world/2014/10/17/09/57/family-of-boy-charged-with-killing-90-year-old-dont-want-him-home
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November 9, 2014 2:09pm
Harriet

“….What planet does this Andrea Vance person live on???…”

Here’s what she states:

“…You might be puzzled to learn then that Internal Affairs minister Peter Dunne cancelled just two passports so far this year…”

Well I’m not puzzled – he made anti-Israeli comments during the election – while NO National candidates did – and Key then gave HIM the IA portfolio?????

Because of Dunne’s position – Muslims now see the NZ government as being ‘tolerant’ towards Muslims, their immigration matters, and their wider ‘concerns’. And National doesn’t get seen as being ‘bigoted’ towards Muslims.

It’s called Andrea: counter-intelligence; as if Dunne gets the ‘real say’ in who has passports and who doesn’t where Muslims are concerned. It’s propaganda; no Muslim has come out threating the government or NZ — yet anyway.
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November 9, 2014 2:26pm
Kea

Longknives, yeah that religion thing is a real problem.

What do you think these Catholic Priests are waving at ?

http://www.nobeliefs.com/images/priests-salute.jpg
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November 9, 2014 2:28pm
Manolo

Dissent in the ranks: http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Peace/2014/11/05/Exclusive-Cardinal-Burke-Church-Risks-Serious-Tensions-in%20Months-Ahead
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November 9, 2014 2:48pm
IGM

What makes this treacherous Vance tick. When they load Slobcrim onto a plane, best also put Vance, Bradwell, Ensor, and Hager with him. This country can well do without rubbish produced by media slugs such as these. Even Bradbury and Campbell have more decency to offer.
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November 9, 2014 3:08pm
Nostradamus

Dave Mann:

Dave Mann (1,235 comments) says:
November 9th, 2014 at 9:05 am
…
Has anybody here researched the TPPA and if so have you got any rational views either for or against it? Please share.

That’s a really good question Dave.

My observation (as a practising lawyer who doesn’t specialise in free trade agreements but who has studied a small number of them) is that a significant number of objections to the TPPA are politically-motivated.

Now, with politically-motivated objections in mind, here’s how I responded to a lefty troll who popped up just before the election (and who has been conspicuously absent seen since the election):

Nostradamus (3,383 comments) says:
September 17th, 2014 at 2:55 pm

ste3e:

Given we have only the assurances of National, and given their honesty is not beyond question every responsible person should vote to replace National if only to pass a different set of eyes over the TPP details.

I see.

And with only 115 comments under your belt, you won’t be able to point me to a comment where you had anything relevant to say about this story, right?

7 April, 2008
Historic first – NZ-China Free trade Agreement signed

Prime Minister Helen Clark and Chinese counterpart, Premier Wen Jiabao, today witnessed the signing of the historic Free Trade Agreement between New Zealand and China in Beijing’s Great Hall of the People.

“Today’s ceremony is the culmination of 15 rounds of negotiations over three years. New Zealand is the first developed country to negotiate an FTA with China,” Helen Clark said.
…
The objective is for the FTA to come into force on 1 October 2008, after the New Zealand Parliament has passed implementing legislation, and after the two countries have exchanged notes confirming that domestic legal procedures have been completed.

Just in case you haven’t connected the dots:

– New Zealand, under Helen Clark’s government, signed a free trade agreement with China on 7 April 2008.
– The intention was for the free trade agreement to come into force on 1 October 2008.
– New Zealand had a general election on 8 November 2008.

Now, Ste3e, did you personally lobby Helen Clark at the time to ask her to defer implementing the free trade agreement until after the 2008 election so, as you say, New Zealanders could “pass a different set of eyes” over the details? If not, why not?

See my further comment on the subject when “ste3e” started flailing his arms.

The left – particularly Labour – are being hypocritical when they criticise the process of negotiating the TPAA (because of the way in which Labour negotiated the TPPA).

The left – which includes pretty much everyone on the left – are being extremely hypocritical when the criticise some of the content of the TPPA (because some of the content is free trade agreement boilerplate).
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November 9, 2014 3:14pm
Nostradamus

Dave Mann:

My edit timed out but you might also want to read my further comment on that thread (when “ste3e” started flailing his arms).
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November 9, 2014 3:20pm
Keeping Stock

Coles should not have lashed out to the blatant jersey-pull by Hartley – who has significant form for off-the-ball incidents. However, Owens sought the recommendation of the TMO, who said it should be a penalty to England only. Owens then said something along the lines of “And a yellow card” to which the TMO replied “No; that is not my recommendation”.

Flipper (12.31pm) is right; it was an offence deserving of a penalty, and no more. Had Owens been consistent, in binning Coles for retaliation then he should have also binned Hartley, both for the jersey-pull which caused the incident, then for the two-handed shove to Coles’ back after Coles retaliated. It was an exceedingly bad piece of refereeing, but will probably earn Owens the 2015 Rugby World Cup final appointment 😀
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November 9, 2014 3:24pm
doggone7

big bruv: “…So, let me decipher this. Steve Hansen is pissed off that one of his thugs did not get away scott free after kicking one of the English. Instead of sending the player concerned home for disgraceful conduct he decides to attack the media.

Clearly Hansen is not used to a media that does not cower in the face of the “worlds greatest ever sporting team”. Perhaps Mr Hansen would like all rugby reporters to be just like Toby Robson….”

I’ve deciphered this. You are talking rubbish. You obviously hate rugby, have had nothing to do with the game, hate Hansen but love reading things which are not true into situations. I wouldn’t be surprised if you’re an England fan not happy with another match done and still just only 7 wins out of 40 games.
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November 9, 2014 3:34pm
stephieboy

Kea,

Germany: Thousands of Muslims Exalting Adolf Hitler and Heinrich Himmler, Screaming Allahu Akba

Read more at http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=057_1406130809&comments=1#Ivducz3Md3hujsl2.99

Music to your ears.?
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November 9, 2014 3:35pm
Keeping Stock

Look at the TPPA this way. I am negotiating with several parties to buy my business. Negotiations are confidential, and commercially sensitive. One night I go down to the pub, have a couple of beers, and share the details of the negotiation with one party with a mate. My mate then goes and tells his mate, and within hours details of the terms of the negotiation are doing the rounds of town.

Should I be surprised when, one by one, the parties with whom I was negotiating confidentially get in touch and tell me that they are breaking off talks? Of course not.

Do you seriously believe that if Labour and the Greens were briefed confidentially on the terms of the TPPA by Tim Groser and his officials the details would remain confidential? Of course not; both Labour (especially Phil Goff) and the Greens have shown repeatedly over the years that political expediency is of far more importance to them than New Zealand’s future. They simply cannot be trusted.
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November 9, 2014 3:39pm
Rachael Membery

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/10721824/Convicted-fraudster-weighs-in-on-sex-case

Does this come under, ‘everyone is entitled to an opinion?’

What a further outrage perpetrated on the victim.
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November 9, 2014 4:35pm
IGM

Is it true that “Snake” Vance now has Mallard subbing the crap she writes about JK? Seeing there is another “Affair” as Mallard has accused others of, best we see where this horrid specimen of left-wing journalism stacks up. Come on Mallard what is the story?
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November 9, 2014 4:42pm
Fletch

Sunday Question:

When a bottle of Coke is shaken up, does it lose its fizz if it is not opened until the next day?

I only ask because I am very particular in standing my bottles of Coke up in trolley – wedging them in so they do not fall over and fizz up etc, only to put them through the checkout and, more often than not, manhandled and thrown roughly into a bag by a bored checkout operator, where they fall over.

I’m thinking that the fizz is probably re-absorbed, since it has nowhere else to go if the bottle is not opened straightaway.
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November 9, 2014 4:52pm
SGA

IGM at 3:08 pm

What makes this treacherous Vance tick. When they load Slobcrim onto a plane, best also put Vance, Bradwell, Ensor, and Hager with him. This country can well do without rubbish produced by media slugs such as these.

Well, there’s always the Russian solution if you are that way inclined?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_journalists_killed_in_Russia
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November 9, 2014 4:57pm
Michael

Ok,
Just watched the test.
Cruden just made it to the line, IMO, but the ref should have probably asked for a TMO referral.
The ref awards a try and then decides to refer to the TMO because the crowd booed. Unbelievable!
Coles gets his jersey pulled and lashes out with his foot accidently touching an English player’s ankle. No malice, no-one was hurt, but he gets 10 minutes in the sin bin despite the TMO saying it was only a penalty offence. Once again the crowd influenced the refs decision. If you can’t stand the heat, etc. [I am referring to the ref].
Sonny Bill was good, almost scored under the posts . The All Blacks would have probably scored from the next movement if an English player had not committed a deliberate foul. Grounds for a penalty try, IMO. SB also threw a great off-load, plus his defence was excellent.
England awarded a penalty try when probably only a penalty was warranted.
Re big screen. Did we have to see Coles lashing out with his foot ad infinitum? It incited the crowd and IMO caused his 10 minutes in the sin bin.
All in all a good game, specially considering the rain in the second half. Last try by the All Blacks a great effort after 24 phases.
BTW, I played quite a bit of rugby in my youth, some of it at lower grade representative level, so I do know a bit about the game.
Have to say the standard of rugby now is a helluva lot better than it was back then. Though Colin Meads [just a touch younger than your’s truly] would still have made the top level.
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November 9, 2014 4:58pm
Lucia Maria

Gulag1917,

The USA and NATO reneged on a deal

Any proof of this secret agreement?
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November 9, 2014 5:12pm
Rachael Membery

Fletch (6,428 comments) says:

November 9th, 2014 at 4:52 pm

Probably okay in the short term, I think ‘fizz’ does escape over time through the plastic bottle.
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November 9, 2014 5:13pm
Gulag1917

Lucia
It was a gentlemen’s agreement.
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November 9, 2014 5:21pm
Don the Kiwi

Fletch.

More importantly, do you ensure that it is chilled enough to go with the rum, or do you cool it and water it down with ice cubes? 😉
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November 9, 2014 5:27pm
Rachael Membery

Don the Kiwi (1,772 comments) says:

November 9th, 2014 at 5:27 pm

Keep the rum in the fridge too.
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November 9, 2014 5:34pm
Fletch

Don, I wouldn’t mind getting some of those molds to make ‘bourbon balls’ or big ice balls. Seems no one in NZ sells them though. Probably have to order them from overseas.
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November 9, 2014 5:51pm
tom hunter

Geopolitical question – well actually it’s a US domestic political question. Yesterday, Obama authorised 1,500 troops to deploy to Iraq, joining the 1,400 already there. Some may remember a time only a few months ago when “just” 300 or so were going to be deployed to try to stop ISIS in Iraq, and there were those who raised the ghost of Kennedy’s “advisors” in Vietnam in the early 1960’s.

But the question I have is this: if Obama had left 3000 troops behind in Iraq in 2011 when the great withdrawal happened, would he have been crucified by his antiwar base? Would it have been considered a broken promise to bring the troops home and end the war in Iraq?

And has he been on the phone to Crawford, Texas 🙂
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November 9, 2014 5:52pm
Manolo

Which one does Vance miss: Pete or Trev?
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November 9, 2014 6:18pm
Harriet

😎

https://s.yimg.com/hd/answers/i/6543ab98a6dd47f6b1018f10bd9b2515_A.jpeg?a=answers&mr=0&x=1415517432&s=68448f1c3102c9d2510dd938d98fed4f
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November 9, 2014 6:20pm
RF

You have to laugh at the drop kicks over on the standard. Not one of the 4 show ponies who want to be leader just do not cut the mustard. I just cannot imagine any of the 4 going head to toe with world leaders.

Wind back to 2008 and 2013 when labour lost and they are still chanting the same crap now. Labourer is a sick joke and the fact they listen to that failed blogger and mentor of Cunliffe …. Mickey Savage… Just shows how pathetic they are.
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November 9, 2014 6:29pm
Shawn Herles

” if Obama had left 3000 troops behind in Iraq in 2011 when the great withdrawal happened, would he have been crucified by his antiwar base?”

Yes.

“Obama authorised 1,500 troops to deploy to Iraq, joining the 1,400 already there. ”

Supposedly they are non-combatants. Ugh.

I’ll take his strategy seriously when he announces something serious.
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November 9, 2014 6:31pm
big bruv

“Coles gets his jersey pulled and lashes out with his foot accidently touching an English player’s ankle”

Accidently?????

Did you really watch the game?
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November 9, 2014 6:34pm
nasska

https://www.dropbox.com/s/hymlq7in5rzifqq/Religion%203%20%282%29.jpg?dl=0
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November 9, 2014 6:36pm
dad4justice

“I am not D4J you delusional f…wit, you can check this with Farrar if you don’t believe it. But then your belief is just that completely unimportant delusion!”

Rowan , that unhinged despicable creep bigot blouse is beyond worrying about. Email me on dad4justice@gmail.com and I give you details why the unhinged coward is lik what he is.The nutter belongs in a zoo.
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November 9, 2014 6:37pm
Rowan

“Bigot blouse and pocketknife simply think through their arse – and no apology whatsoever for that.”

Flipper
Absolutely
However I think you are being to generous to the ABs in your appraisal of the match.
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November 9, 2014 6:37pm
Fletch

More threats by the government in Britain to censor free speech.

It’s the brainchild of Theresa May, the Home Secretary in David Cameron’s government. May wants to introduce “extremism disruption orders”, which, yes, are as terrifyingly authoritarian as they sound.

Last month, May unveiled her ambition to “eliminate extremism in all its forms.” Whether you’re a neo-Nazi or an Islamist, or just someone who says things which betray, in May’s words, a lack of “respect for the rule of law” and “respect for minorities”, then you could be served with an extremism disruption order (EDO).

[…]

Once served with an EDO, you will be banned from publishing on the Internet, speaking in a public forum, or appearing on TV. To say something online, including just tweeting or posting on Facebook, you will need the permission of the police. There will be a “requirement to submit to the police in advance any proposed publication on the web, social media or print.” That is, you will effectively need a licence from the state to speak, to publish, even to tweet, just as writers and poets did in the 1600s before the licensing of the press was swept away and modern, enlightened Britain was born (or so we thought).

What sort of people might find themselves branded “extremists” and thus forbidden from speaking in public? Anyone, really. The definition of extremist being bandied about by May and her colleagues is so sweeping that pretty much all individuals with outré or edgy views could potentially find themselves served with an EDO and no longer allowed to make any public utterance without government approval.

So you won’t have to incite violence to be labelled an extremist —in May’s words, these extremism-disrupting orders will go “beyond terrorism.” May says far-right activists and Islamist hotheads who have not committed any crime or incited violence could be served with an order to shut the hell up. She has also talked about people who think “a woman’s intellect [is] deficient,” or who have “denounced people on the basis of their religious beliefs,” or who have “rejected democracy”—these folk, too, could potentially be branded extremists and silenced. In short, it could become a crime punishable by gagging to be a sexist or a religion-hater or someone who despises democracy.

Never mind violence, you won’t even have to incite hatred in order to be judged an extremist. As one newspaper report sums it up, the aim is “to catch not just those who spread or incite hatred,” but anyone who indulges in “harmful activities” that could cause “public disorder” or “alarm or distress” or a “threat to the functioning of democracy.” (By “harmful activities”, the government really means “harmful words”—there’s that Orwellian slip again.) This is such a cynically flabby definition of extremism that it could cover any form of impassioned, angry political or moral speech, much of which regularly causes “alarm or distress” to some of the people who hear it.

http://reason.com/archives/2014/11/08/britain-poised-to-silence-extremist-spee
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November 9, 2014 6:40pm
dad4justice

Rowan you must understand that cowardly bigot blouse has been giving me static for over 10 years.
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November 9, 2014 6:46pm
Kea

stephieboy, you forgot to tell us who you think the priests were waving at ?

http://www.nobeliefs.com/images/FriedrichCoch.jpg

Got Mit Uns

http://www.nobeliefs.com/mementoes/buckle.jpeg
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November 9, 2014 6:51pm
georgebolwing

Gulag1917 and Lucia

While commonly comment upon, it does not appear to be quite correct that the Soviets were “promised” that NATO would not expand, a promise that the west has reneged on. This article from Foreign Affairs draws on contemporaneous records that are now being made public to show that an internal disagreement between George H.W. Bush’s senior advisers in early February 1990 was played out, in part, in communications to Gorbachev. Thus for a very short time, the possibility that NATO might not expand east was raised with the Soviets. but it was never promised and any uncertainty about the West’s position was removed quickly.

http://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/141845/mary-elise-sarotte/a-broken-promise
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November 9, 2014 6:52pm
nasska

Why don’t you extend an olive branch to BB Dad?

All this hate you keep bottled up will impact on your health. 🙁
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November 9, 2014 6:52pm
dad4justice

narsekisser you are a newbie old man bb used to be ClintH’s shag doll called Insolent Prick. I detest the gutless wonder for good reason. It’s a troll of the highest order.
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November 9, 2014 6:57pm
tom hunter

Supposedly they are non-combatants. Ugh.

They’re sending 1,500 Radar O’Reilly’s?

When it comes to directing air strikes or “working” with Iraqi troops they’re going to be exposed to fire sooner or later, and then they’ll need cover and so on and so forth. I saw some mention of Apache gunships too so that would up the logistics requirements and pretty soon you’re looking at rescue and recovery teams, forward base protection (they can’t fly that far), and more.

Non-combatant? Bullshit. But then I expect nothing else from this clown of a CIC.
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November 9, 2014 6:59pm
mikenmild

I’m sure tom has a much better strategy all worked out…
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November 9, 2014 7:01pm
mikenmild

Pakistan batting first, Nz with two spinners.
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November 9, 2014 7:02pm
Kea

narsekisser you are a newbie old man bb used to be ClintH’s shag doll called Insolent Prick. I detest the gutless wonder for good reason. It’s a troll of the highest order.

Gosh what does a Christian zionist supporting bigot have to do to get even a simple warning on KB ?

A read of those warned or banned will reveal just how un-biased DPF is, when compared to what is – not – mentioned.
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November 9, 2014 7:07pm
nasska

To be fair Kea, DPF is on holiday & presumably off line.

I expect a clampdown on his return.
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November 9, 2014 7:09pm
tom hunter

Not now mikenmild. This clusterfuck could have been prevented but now I think that any amount of US troops will turn the trick, a point on which I disagree with Shawn. I think the whole West should stay the hell out of it and let the likes of Turkey, Saudi Arabia and company take care of business. They’ve spent enough money on US fighter planes, US tanks, oop training and other weapons – billions of dollars – that they should be capable of doing something. And if they don’t then fuck ’em and we’ll deal with ISIS when they have serious infrastructure to protect.

But again ….. that trace of bitterness. Is it the US election results or the NZ one? I saw that you forecast National being at the beck and call of Winston and that turned out to be wrong, but I don’t think anybody will hold that against you. I thought it likely too. Is it that the right wing in both places surged to more power than you expected?
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November 9, 2014 7:11pm
georgebolwing

@Fletch

You need to get a better source for your views, ones that knows the difference between a political speech, press speculation and reality.

What Theresa May has done is give a speech to the Conservative Party Conference in which she said the following:

I want to see new banning orders for extremist groups that fall short of the existing laws relating to terrorism. I want to see new civil powers to target extremists who stay just within the law but still spread poisonous hatred. So both policies – Banning Orders and Extremism Disruption Orders – will be in the next Conservative manifesto.

The Reasons article you link to has taken press speculation from a few days ago about what she might have said and turned it into suggestions that the UK government had actually introduced new laws.

Might I suggest that maybe, just maybe, the minister or her party were “flying a kite”, suggesting things in background briefings and then gauging the reaction, before making the actual announcement.

Anyway, it would appear that the people of the UK are still free to express their opinions on line.

Sorry if the facts get in the way of a good rant.
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November 9, 2014 7:15pm
mikenmild

I agree with you, tom. Once the Iraqi government made it clear that there would be no SOFA then it should have been no further US involvement.
Trace of bitterness? I don’t understand. “Patriotism is not enough; I must have no bitterness towards anyone”.
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November 9, 2014 7:16pm
Kea

nasska, Oh he has tons of time to censor those who do not share his views. His latest trick is to issue a bunch of warnings and strikes/demerits all at once, for various dates. It is a bit like spraying someone with bullets and calling the first few warning shots.

It is his blog and he can do what he likes. He is also very tolerant compared to the others. But he has his favourites that are held to different standards. That is a very self evident fact.

Some of it is due to the fact that the lowest expressions of humanity, that inhabit KB, are all “Reporters”. This vile dross of humanity are constantly working to get decent people removed so they can have a mutual hate fest without challenge against their diseased thinking.
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November 9, 2014 7:17pm
mikenmild

Let’s all rail against the blog owner’s rules and practices. That’ll work.
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November 9, 2014 7:22pm
Kea

No let’s simply call a spade a spade.
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November 9, 2014 7:24pm
Harriet

“….In short, it could become a crime punishable by gagging to be a sexist or a religion-hater or someone who despises democracy…..”

Fletch,

The UK atheists even came out with the civil libertarians to stop what May is suggesting.

The problem they said is that judges will find it hard not to give an EDO to someone – when presented with 200 online comments about ‘questioning other identities ect’.

EG. Most of us here at KB would get an EDO for continuing to question Islam, Muslims, women, gays, catholics, immigration, ‘abortion rights’, atheists ect. The UK courts wouldn’t see KB as a ‘political website’ but a ‘public space’ where certain people are being ‘intolerant’ daily.

Orwell was right on the money.
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November 9, 2014 7:31pm
Steve (North Shore)

Kea @ 11.11

Lets not forget that the self declared – best in the world – AB’s went TWENTY YEARS without winning the world cup !

Back to school for you, Math Class
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQS2RriUzVk
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November 9, 2014 7:32pm
nasska

….”Some of it is due to the fact that the lowest expressions of humanity, that inhabit KB, are all “Reporters”.”….

Now we sing from the same page of the hymn book. I don’t think that our host necessarily persecutes anyone with any particular POV but reacts to the whining of the toadies (aka religio-conservatives) who devote their worthless, miserable lives to narking on anyone who doesn’t hate the poor & love baby Jesus.

When GD starts with an opening prayer & kowtow or Harriet link to a site promoting pretty choirboys with bouncy bottoms we’ll know that our time here is over. 🙂
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November 9, 2014 7:32pm
Shawn Herles

“That is a very self evident fact.”

Whenever these words are uttered by our trolling parrot, it’s almost a guarantee that the opposite is true.
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November 9, 2014 7:38pm
Lucia Maria

Gulag1917

It was a gentlemen’s agreement.

It doesn’t sound very gentlemanly to me, basically agreeing to allow former Soviet states military protection from their old foe who could easily revert back to normal operations.

George

for a very short time, the possibility that NATO might not expand east was raised with the Soviets. but it was never promised and any uncertainty about the West’s position was removed quickly.

Thank you for that article. I thought I’d give Gulag the benefit of the doubt in putting forth something that made what he said more believable. But he has nothing.

I also find it interesting that Russia signed an agreement in 1994 guaranteeing Ukraine’s borders if Ukraine gave up her nukes. That wasn’t just a secret promise and a handshake, it was an internationally recognised memorandum of understanding, and yet here we are, with Russia in violation of at least three of the six agreements. See Nuclear weapons and Ukraine

Also, the implication that the West has created this crisis and forced Russia to invade Ukraine is ludicrous. Rather than being the victim here, the Russians are just reverting back to form. The style of warfare that Putin is employing is typical Stalin, say one thing and do another. See Stalin Invented Hybrid War, Not Vladimir Putin, Archival Record Shows

Anne Applebaum wrote about the myth of the no NATO expansion eastward promise to Russia as well : The myth of Russian humiliation. I agree with her that Russia should not have been treated as heir to the Soviet Union after it collapsed. In part, we are where we are now because of that error in judgement. It’s better to treat states based on their history and not what you hope them to do, especially if what you hope is historically unlikely.
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November 9, 2014 7:49pm
Harriet

“….I don’t think that our host necessarily persecutes anyone with any particular POV but reacts to the whining of the toadies (aka religio-conservatives) who devote their worthless, miserable lives to narking on anyone who doesn’t hate the poor & love baby Jesus….”

The things you take for granted, someone else is praying for.
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November 9, 2014 7:53pm
Kea

nasska, you may be right. I sometimes wonder if DPF knows what these nasty religious loons actually say on here sometimes.

We even have holocaust denying Ukraine neo-nazi supporters who have claimed to report me for telling the truth. You could not make this stuff up !

NO NAZI’s HERE ! http://www.nobeliefs.com/images/FriedrichCoch.jpg
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November 9, 2014 7:55pm
nasska

….”someone else is praying for”…..

Pity they don’t do something practical or useful instead….then you might see some change for the good.
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November 9, 2014 7:56pm
Shawn Herles

“reacts to the whining of the toadies (aka religio-conservatives) who devote their worthless….”

Or it could be that IF atheists are picked on by our host then it’s because too many of them behave like hysteria driven loons with the communication skills of sociopathic children.

Just sayin….. 😉

Kinda like kea! 🙂
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November 9, 2014 8:00pm
Viking2

The Pope was having a shower. Although he’s very strict about celibacy, he occasionally felt he needed ‘to exercise the Papal wrist’, And this happened to be one of those occasions.

Just as he reached the Papal climax he saw a photographer taking a picture of the Holy seed flying through the air.

‘Hold on a minute!’, said the Pope, ‘You can’t do that – you’ll destroy the reputation of the Church!’

‘This is my big lottery win,’ said the photographer, ‘I’ll be financially secure for life with these photos!’

So the Pope offered to buy the camera from the photographer. After much negotiation they eventually settled on a figure of 2,000,000 Euros.

The Pope clothed himself and headed off to destroy the images on the camera.

Along the vast Vatican hallways he bumped into his personal housekeeper.

Being a bit of a photography buff she noticed the camera and said, ‘That looks like a really expensive digital SLR camera, how much did it cost you?’

Not being one to lie, the Pope replied,’… two million Euros…’

‘TWO MILLION EUROS!’ replied the housekeeper. ‘ – They must have seen you coming!’
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November 9, 2014 8:01pm
Harriet

“………….”someone else is praying for”…..

Pity they don’t do something useful instead….then you might see some change for the good…..’

You just don’t seem to get it.
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November 9, 2014 8:01pm
tom hunter

Once the Iraqi government made it clear that there would be no SOFA …

Still banging that bullshit drum eh? In the last few months I’ve seen two PBS documentaries as well as read excerpts from Dexter Filkin’s book about the end of the Iraq war. Outside of Obama’s innermost circle of professional excuse makers nobody swallows your line anymore. The demands made by the Iraqi government for US troops being under Iraqi jurisdiction were the same as had been demanded of Bush in 2008. They were negotiated then and they could have been negotiated again. A number of military advisors and diplomats have made that point, as well as pointing out that Malikai was perfectly willing to thread the needle and approve it within his government. It was Obama who demanded that it be approved by the Iraqi parliament.

Of course he did. He knew it would fail and that suited his purpose of satisfying his anti-war base that he had delivered on his promise to “end” the Iraq war with the definitive fact of zero US boots on the ground. He even boasted about it – until it all turned to custard and the usual Obama excuses came out that it had nothing to do with him.

Why any President would want to avoid the blame is an easy question to answer. Why some non-US voter far away in NZ would want to provide such sycophantic cover is tougher to answer.

And it is the key point – the reason I haven’t got a better strategy now is precisely because what I originally wanted did not happen – for the US to have left behind a few thousand troops in Iraq. Once that best-case option was gone it was all least-worst stuff. Asking Obama’s critics what should now be done is reasonable – doing so with snark is not.
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November 9, 2014 8:02pm
thedavincimode

Are we playing nicely gang?
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November 9, 2014 8:03pm
mikenmild

So no strategy now, then tom. Just endless criticism of your boogeyman.
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November 9, 2014 8:03pm
MT_Tinman

Harriet (5,045 comments) says:
November 9th, 2014 at 8:01 pm

“………….”someone else is praying for”…..

Pity they don’t do something useful instead….then you might see some change for the good…..’

You just don’t seem to get it.

From what I read the reverse seems to be the fact.
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November 9, 2014 8:11pm
Shawn Herles

Support the Kurd’s, the Iraqi’s, and the air campaign with ground troops. Expel ISIS from Iraq, and contain them in Syria.
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November 9, 2014 8:12pm
Viking2

Love This Comeback !!!!!

One of my sons serves in the military. He is still stateside, here in California . He called me yesterday to let me know how warm and welcoming people were to him and his troops everywhere he goes, telling me how people shake their hands and thank them for being willing to serve and fight for not only our own freedoms, but so that others may have them also.
But he also told me about an incident in the grocery store he stopped at yesterday on his way home from the base. He said that ahead of several people in front of him stood a woman dressed in a burkha.

He said when she got to the cashier she loudly remarked about the U..S. flag lapel pin the cashier wore on her smock. The cashier reached up and touched the pin, and said proudly, ‘Yes, I always wear it and probably always will…’

The woman in the burkha then asked the cashier when she was going to stop bombing her countrymen, explaining that she was Iraqi.

A gentleman standing behind my son stepped forward. Putting his arm around my son’s shoulders and nodding towards my son, he said in a calm and gentle voice to the Iraqi woman: ‘Lady, hundreds of thousands of men and women like this young man have fought and died so that YOU could stand here, in MY country and accuse a check-out cashier of bombing YOUR countrymen. It is my belief that had you been this outspoken in YOUR own country, we wouldn’t need to be there today. But, hey, if you have now learned how to speak out so loudly and clearly, I’ll gladly buy you a ticket and pay your way back to Iraq so you can straighten out the mess in YOUR country that you are obviously here in MY country to avoid.. Everyone within hearing distance cheered!
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November 9, 2014 8:12pm
Viking2

In South Africa it is called Apartheid where the minority have it over the majority but if we complain in NZ we are called racist.

Did you know…

This list of Maori only privileges, which are fully or partly funded by you, the tax payer, provides some of the examples we have found to date. The list will be added to as we become aware of others.

Race based funding in 2011 alone cost $1.324 billion
Cash payments for “co-governance” nets iwi tens of millions annually
Whanau Ora is a new programme costing over $40 million a year
Nearly $600 million is spent every year promoting the Maori language
When the Maori Council takes on the Crown, you pay for both sides
When tribal elites negotiate with the Crown, you pay for both sides
Auckland’s “super city” legislation set up an unelected Maori Statutory Board with big, expensive ideas and undefined powers
Tribal elites now control over $37 billion assets, mostly thanks to overly generous treaty settlements, of which “their people” see little if anything
The New Zealand Public Health and Disability Act 2000 has clauses giving Maori priority for health treatment
The Resource Management Act has clauses giving tribal elites veto power in building and development..
Maori only Schools
Maori only education scholarships
Maori only housing projects
Maori only prisoner programmes
Maori only positions in government agencies
Maori only consultation rights under the RMA
Maori only co-management of parks, rivers, lakes and coastline
Maori only seats on local councils
Maori only local government statutory boards
Maori only local government liaison committees
Maori only seats in parliament
Maori only welfare (Whanau Ora)
Maori only health prioritisation and initiatives

Race Based Funding

Maori Affairs Vote (allocation)

The Minister of Maori Affairs is responsible for appropriations in the Vote for the 2012/2013 financial year, covering the following:

a total of over $23 million for provision of advice, including second opinion advice and contributions to policy advice led by other agencies, to support decision-making by Ministers on government policy matters; and provision of other services to Ministers to enable them to discharge their portfolio.
a total of nearly $14 million for the design, delivery and management of community investment programmes, the Maori Business Facilitation Service, and administration costs of the Land Management Unit.
a total of nearly $7 million for an integrated programme of community level social assistance to Maori whanau through the provision of services by Whanau Advocates (Kaitoko Whanau and Oranga Whanau); Maori Wardens and related entities.
a total of nearly $8 million for strengthening relationships with Maori with emphasis on facilitation, brokerage, provision of local level information and co-ordination.
a total of nearly $75 million for the promotion of Maori language and culture through direct funding of broadcasting entities (Te Mangai Paho, Maori Television Services and Te Putahi Paoho) and Te Taura Whiri I Te Reo (Maori Language Commission).
a total of just over $10 million to purchase the services of the Maori Trustee.
a total of nearly $3 million to progress Maori economic development initiatives across tourism and productive sectors.
a total of just over $14 million for funding Maori Potential through community investment programmes and the Rangatiratanga grants.
a total of over $4 million for specific Maori Potential programmes including; Iwi Housing Support, Maori Registration Service, Maori Wardens, NZ Maori Council and Maori Women’s Development Fund
a total of $500,000 for addressing Treaty and contemporary claims related matters.
a total of $43,000 for various legislative payments administered by Te Puni Kokiri, and
a total of over $2 million for departmental expenditure.

The Minister for Whanao Ora is responsible for the following appropriations:

a total of nearly $49 million for activites associated with implementing, developing and evaluating whanau ora service delivery ($9 million) and the purchase of the whanau ora service delivery capability and whanau support ($40 million).

That adds up to an annual taxpayer provided budget of over $200 Million !

To read this report in more detail, you can download the pdf here:

Download http://1law4all.kiwi.nz/?ddownload=311

or visit the government website to download it here http://www.treasury.govt.nz/budget/2012/estimates/est12maoaff.pdf
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November 9, 2014 8:16pm
dirty harry

Disgusting Viking..what a bizarre country we live in where the minority royally screws the majority and no one gives a fuck.
Very strange.
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November 9, 2014 8:20pm
Viking2

The IRD decides to audit Grandpa, and summons him to their office.
The auditor was not surprised when Grandpa showed up with his lawyer.
The auditor said, ‘Well, sir, you have an extravagant lifestyle and no
full-time employment, which you explain by saying that you win money
gambling. I’m not sure the IRD finds that believable.’
I’m a great gambler, and I can prove it,’ says Grandpa. ‘How about a
demonstration?’
The auditor thinks for a moment and said, ‘Okay. Go ahead.’
Grandpa says, ‘I’ll bet you a thousand dollars that I can bite my own eye.’
The auditor thinks a moment and says, ‘It’s a bet.’
Grandpa removes his glass eye and bites it. The auditor’s jaw drops.
Grandpa says, ‘Now, I’ll bet you two thousand dollars that I can bite my
other eye.’
Now the auditor can tell Grandpa isn’t blind, so he takes the bet
Grandpa removes his dentures and bites his good eye.
The stunned auditor now realizes he has wagered and lost three grand, with
Grandpa’s lawyer as a witness. He starts to get nervous.
‘Want to go double or nothing?’ Grandpa asks ‘I’ll bet you six thousand
dollars that I can stand on one side of your desk, and pee into that
wastebasket on the other side, and never get a drop anywhere in between.’
The auditor, twice burned, is cautious now, but he looks carefully and
decides there’s no way this old guy could possibly manage that stunt, so he
agrees again.
Grandpa stands beside the desk and unzips his pants, but although he strains
mightily, he can’t make the stream reach the waste basket on the other side,
so he pretty much urinates all over the auditor’s desk.
The auditor leaps with joy, realizing that he has just turned a major loss
into a huge win.
But Grandpa’s own lawyer moans and puts his head in his hands.
‘Are you okay?’ the auditor asks.
‘Not really,’ says the lawyer. ‘This morning, when Grandpa told me he’d been
summoned for an audit, he bet me twenty-five thousand dollars that he could
come in here and piss all over your desk and that you’d be happy about it!’
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November 9, 2014 8:21pm
Viking2

When I was in the pub I heard a couple of plonkers saying that they wouldn’t feel safe on an aircraft if they knew the pilot was a woman. What a pair of sexists. I mean, it’s not as if she’d have to reverse the bloody thing!

Paddy says, “Mick, I’m thinking of buying a Labrador.
“Blow that,” says Mick, “have you seen how many of their owners go blind?”

19 Paddies go to the cinema, the ticket lady asks “Why so many of you?” Mick replies, “The film said 18 or over.”

Murphy says to Paddy, “What ya talkin into an envelope for?”
“I’m sending a voicemail.”

Two Muslims have crashed a speedboat into the Thames barrier in London. Police think it might be the start of Ram-a-dam.
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November 9, 2014 8:26pm
SGA

Viking2 at 8:12 pm

Love This Comeback !!!!!

That story looked a little to good to be true, and it has an urban legend “feel” – likely it is –
http://www.snopes.com/rumors/lapelpin.asp
I’ve met a few Iraqi women, and while burkhas aren’t unknown there, they are less common than in other Arab nations. Moreover, and from the Snopes article, “… in the U.S. a woman clad in such a garment would be a rare sight indeed and that anyone so garbed would be unlikely to be found shopping unaccompanied by her husband or other male relative, or to be addressing those she encountered in the outspoken manner attributed to the woman in this story.”
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November 9, 2014 8:31pm
Tauhei Notts

Viking at 8.01 = brilliant
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November 9, 2014 8:35pm
tom hunter

So no strategy now, then tom. Just endless criticism of your boogeyman.

I already told you what my strategy is – you even agreed with part of it. But I don’t expect it to be followed any more than my previous preference was. Under those circumstances I have no problem with endlessly criticising the idiocy of the idiot trying to dig himself out of the hole his idiocy created.

I’m sure you felt much the same in 2007 as Bush argued for the so-called “Surge”. The key difference this time being that I don’t see any evidence that Obama actually wants to win, that he wants to do anything more than once again solve a domestic problem, in this case damping down the public sentiment that something be done about ISIS. Buy a few months, get beyond the news cycle, and move on.
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November 9, 2014 8:58pm
Shawn Herles

A Canticle for Jew and Catholic‏.

http://www.theimaginativeconservative.org/2014/11/canticle-jew-catholic%e2%80%8f.html
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November 9, 2014 9:01pm
Nookin

Here are some photos of the last KB reunion. I cant put names to faces. Anyone there who can help?

http://m.shutterstock.com/images/168022844
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November 9, 2014 9:19pm
georgebolwing

@Viking2

Re your 8:16 pm post.

I suspect that many of the items on this list will not stand careful scrutiny.

A few examples that instantly stood out to me:

a) Race based funding in 2011 alone cost $1.324 billion. Really? Given that Vote Maori Affairs is only $600 million, where did the rest come from? Details please? And is is 2014, so an update, please.

b) Nearly $600 million is spent every year promoting the Maori language. Again, looks OTT. I can see about $67 million in Non-Departmental Output Expenses that might go on this. Where is the rest recorded?

c) Auckland’s “super city” legislation set up an unelected Maori Statutory Board with big, expensive ideas and undefined powers. Yes, the Local Government (Auckland Council) Act did establish a Maori Statutory Board. Whether the members of the board have ideas, expensive or otherwise, is not mentioned in the Act. But what are mentioned, very clearly in Section 85 and 86 are the Board’s powers.

d) “The New Zealand Public Health and Disability Act 2000 has clauses giving Maori priority for health treatment”. No it doesn’t. the closest the Act gets to this is section 22(1)(e) which provides that the purpose of each DHB is to “reduce health disparities by improving health outcomes for Maori and other population groups”

e) “The Resource Management Act has clauses giving tribal elites veto power in building and development.” No it doesn’t. Not even close.
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November 9, 2014 9:21pm
Gulag1917

Lucia
“It doesn’t sound very gentlemanly to me, basically agreeing to allow former Soviet states military protection from their old foe who could easily revert back to normal operations.”

Gorbachev could have invaded Eastern Europe easily, the the troops could have shot to kill the protesters at the Berlin Wall but none of this happened. World opinion is against the US and we wonder why.
What is it about Catholic Eastern Europeans and the USA Christian Right that they cannot be a bit more multi dimensional in their thinking. You are backing the wrong horse. I have talked to number of military personnel and their overwhelming consensus of opinion is that the USA is dangerous. Who trusts dangerous nations?
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November 9, 2014 9:26pm
georgebolwing

I love how on Kiwiblog you get a down-tick for a post that provides reasoned analysis of someone else’s post.
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November 9, 2014 9:34pm
Nookin

Georgebolwing.
This is General Debate on KB. Facts and figures are optional tools when advancing any particular theory, argument or rant.
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November 9, 2014 9:42pm
Lindsay Addie

georgebolwing,

I agree with you re the right of Maori to veto under the RMA. It simply isn’t true. There is plenty of documentary proof from the MfE and Department of Justice.
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November 9, 2014 9:48pm
SGA

georgebolwing at 9:34 pm

I love how on Kiwiblog you get a down-tick for a post that provides reasoned analysis of someone else’s post.

By and large, I think the “ticks” show emotional responses to comments (more brain stem than cortex, if you like).
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November 9, 2014 9:50pm
Nookin

Section 8 — must take into account the principles of the Treaty of Waitangi. Not even close to edict or veto. Some councils may take matters to extremes.
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November 9, 2014 9:58pm
flipper

Rowan (2,467 comments) says:

November 9th, 2014 at 6:37 pm

“Bigot blouse and pocketknife …..
****

R…
Yes, the ABs were fortunate given the circs. But with seven points per converted try matters can change so quickly.
And if Owens was justified in awarding a penalty try to pongolia, then he should have awarded one to the ABs following Williams’ big break. The game would then have had a totally different dynamic. No?

But what the hell. A nip and tuck win is a win, and in my experience any loss really hurts – whatever the reason (penalty, DG or PT).
Cheers
F
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November 9, 2014 10:05pm
Nookin

SGA
Mikenmild got a down tick for recordiding that Pakistan were batting first. Gotta be real sensitive for that to inspire an emotional response.
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November 9, 2014 10:08pm
Gulag1917

People probably downtick on the poster rather than the post.
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November 9, 2014 10:11pm
SGA

Nookin at 10:08 pm
Just the very sight of the nom de blog, “Mikenmild”, is enough to register an emotional response in some quarters 🙂
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November 9, 2014 10:12pm
Lindsay Addie

Re veto and the RMA there has been court cases about this:

This restates the established position that the right of consultation does not amount to a right of veto, articulated by the Court of Appeal in Watercare Services Ltd v Minhinnick [1998] NZRMA 113, which stated:

[The argument that there is an ability to veto] is an argument which serves only to reduce the effectiveness of the principles of the Treaty rather than to embrace them. (pp. 18−19)

https://www.mfe.govt.nz/sites/default/files/case-law-tangata-whenua.pdf (page 22)
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November 9, 2014 10:38pm
IGM

SGA: He is a Labour-loving, left-wing wimp. Has not got over the arse kicking Labour got in the election.
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November 10, 2014 6:43am
SGA

Quod erat demonstrandum
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November 10, 2014 7:14am

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