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November 26, 2014 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 26 November 2014

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flipper

The Herald is full bore ahead with their crap reports on the Gwyn Report. The Herald, including Armstrong (geriatric fool), and Currie/Murphy, et al are a disgrace to journalism, and are so far removed from reality in their presentation of Gwyn that it is hard to believe their claims that they have read her. Their own fiction is presented as being more reliable.

But hang on… The Herald is named in the Chisolm report. And it is not a very flattering observation.
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November 26, 2014 8:11am
waikatogirl

Does it seem that Goofy is a little desperate to retain the limelight. Time is running out on his political career and he is very screechy in his attack on the PM.

Give it up Goff, you lost, and your time is up. Go gracefully onto the back bench then into well paid retirement on the poor old taxpayer.
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November 26, 2014 8:17am
kowtow

The headlines from the MSM about the rioting in the US are funny, “outrage ,anger” blah blah.

Much of this furore was whipped up by the media in the first place.

If it were whites burning down their own neighbourhoods the media reaction would be very different.

The simple truth is a big black robber was shot by a cop when he tried to grab his gun. The fact that black America stands on the side of a bullying thug robber says more about black America than it does about anything else.

But the media only want us to believe that white cops love to go round shooting black babies.

It is the blacks who riot and their supporters who are the racists.
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November 26, 2014 8:17am
Keeping Stock

Phil Goff was allegedly warned by the police recently for breaching a suppression order over the circumstances of the death of an NZDF member. Now it seems that Goff is responsible for knowingly breaching the embargo on the Gwyn report, in contravention of the instructions of Ms Gwyn when advance copies were released; potentially a criminal offence, punishable by up to one year in prison. Here’s how Bill English described it yesterday:

This is the man who leaked the findings of this report yesterday in direct breach of the confidentiality order that he signed, which states that it is an offence to leak it. So why would the public believe anything that the Labour members say about this report? This is the confidentiality order, and on the bottom it says: “Received and acknowledged”. That is, when you give evidence you sign it to say that you acknowledge that you are under a confidentiality order and that you acknowledge that it will be an offence if you breach it. Despite him personally acknowledging that, he leaked it.

Phil Goff is a serial leaker; “gone by lunchtime”, MFAT, NZDF suppression order and now this. I hope this matter is referred to the Police, and that on this occasion, it is decided that is IS in the public interest to prosecute Mr Goff, if for no other reason than to prove that NO New Zealander, even a 27-year veteran of Parliament, is above the law.
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November 26, 2014 8:23am
hj

Aunty Betty’s Creamy Rice.
98% Fat Free
sources of Calcium . Complex Carbohydrates. 220g Net.
Sugars 24.6g = 6 tsp!
…..
That’s why we need better food labelling. Sugar stufffs up your gut bacteria (possibly).
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November 26, 2014 8:26am
EAD

@ Kowtow,

Our Media is utterly corrupt. Utterly corrupt. From the small things like the unmistakeable “left bias” to its re-writing of NZ history to the big issues where, even now, it continues to peddle bullsh*t on things such as “global warming” despite being thoroughly debunked.

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Journalism/2014/11/24/Media-narrative-implodes-Michael-Brown

It is worth reading this entire article but here is a small section:

“Just as the media did during the George Zimmerman trial and in the aftermath of Zimmerman’s shooting of Trayvon Martin, the media attempted to cram the square peg of the Wilson-Brown shooting into the round hole of white police racism. That meant portraying Brown as the latest sainted racial victim; this time, rather than the Trayvon Martin narrative of hoodies, Skittles, and iced tea, the media hit upon the notion that Brown was a “gentle giant.” The Brown family, Al Sharpton, MSNBC, CNN, The Washington Post, and other major media outlets ran with the story that Brown was a “gentle giant” who wouldn’t hurt a fly.

Then, it turned out that Brown had robbed a convenience store minutes before his altercation with Wilson.

Similarly, the media trotted out the story of Dorian Johnson, Brown’s friend, who said that Brown held his hands up in surrender after being shot in the back, and that Wilson executed Brown. The entire media ran with that one originally; the lie spawned an entire “Hands Up, Don’t Shoot” movement. Of course, it later turned out that Johnson had helped Brown rob the store, and that all available autopsy evidence contradicted Johnson’s story.

But never mind: the media had somehow turned the true story of Michael Brown – the story of a 6’5”, 289-lb. 18-year-old strong-arm-robbing a convenience store, confronting a police officer and attempting to take his gun, running away, turning back to charge that officer, and being shot multiple times – into the story of Emmett Till. Never mind that there was not a single shred of evidence suggesting that Wilson targeted Brown based on race; never mind that Brown matched the description of the robbery suspect because he was the robbery suspect; never mind that Brown attacked an officer twice. No, this was a pre-ordained for the media: white racist police officer strikes down young black unarmed man. The result of that overwrought and outright false media-generated controversy: extended riots in Ferguson”

They’re understandable because most Americans live in the evidence-free narrative created by malicious media liars, and the politicians they enable. They live in the evidence-free world of the political left, which maintains that America remains deeply racist, that every white cop is Bull Connor, and that every black man shot by police is a Selma marcher. So long as they live in that world, racial reconciliation will remain a dream, and racial polarization will remain a tool of the political and media elite to sell papers, raise cash, and drive votes”
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November 26, 2014 8:33am
RF

Little banging on yesterday about the evil National Govt. I was amused to see him playing the role of the mouse that roared. Lately Its been concerning me that his face is familiar and this morning when I had a quick game of Angry Birds with the monkeys that you knock out of the Palm trees ….There he was !!!!!!
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November 26, 2014 8:38am
Paulus

I am amazed at the screaming vitriolic outpouring from Adolf Little yesterday.
Like a little child if you don’t get what you want you continue to scream.

I assume that is how the Trade Unions system works at meetings – berate and scream until you get what you want.
Other members of the Labour Caucus beware – you will now be treated regularly to Adolf’s screaming.

Remember the ditty to the Red Flag song – in Adolf’s terms.
Der Working Classes
Must kiss mein Arses
I’ve gotten der Fuhrer’s Job at Last.

How demeaning to behave like that – so soon – very sad indictment of the Labour’s future – this little man is, we are told, is clever as he sorted out the EPMU.
Now we know why they lost so many members.
Remembering that there are only 371,613 registered Trade Union members over 144 unions, and dropping.
This kind of behaviour will only assist that decline.
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November 26, 2014 8:39am
BeaB

David Fisher’s article about two people having lunch, what they ate and what they drank must surely be the lowest he can sink. What tosh.
Does this mean from now on anyone mentioned in the paper or an official report can expect a description of their social activities, their meals and drinks to be published in the Herald?
What was Fisher thinking? Was the editor on holiday?
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November 26, 2014 8:39am
Odakyu-sen

The burning, looting and property damage in locations in the US doesn’t make sense.

We’re talking about businesses in the protestors’ own neighborhoods, that supply employment, goods and services to the community. All it does is make life harder for the communities. What businesses will now risk setting themselves up in such places?

It certainly doesn’t make the protesters look like nice people in the eyes of the world, and it reinforces negative stereotypes.
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November 26, 2014 8:40am
hj

Spoonley says its been 40 years since we had a population policy.
No one but a bunch of open border social engineers had a say in that.
He says we need migrants to head to the regions because they are dying (farms consolidating, businesses closing). More labour is the obvious solutio? He says while we have high migration “all there skills are needed” (that’s demonstrated by the fact thaAustralia tlow wage economy). Also uses the old myth that we need migrants to counter our aging workfore. That idea was rejected by the Australian Productivity Commision who said that it doesn’t help unless you cure the underlying economic problems as the migrants age and need support.
Jim Moira had him on the Panel but no one seemed inclined to ask probing questions (as you dont when your the crowdwho control NatRad).
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November 26, 2014 8:41am
IGM

It is no wonder Muslims take such violent actions against media in the Middle East. Maybe they have something!
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November 26, 2014 8:46am
kowtow

EAD ,from that item.

“So did President Obama. In 2013, Obama told America that Trayvon Martin could have been his son; in this case, Obama told the United Nations that riots in Ferguson represented America’s nasty racial legacy.”

Obummer has to be the least American President in the history of the American Presidency.

Odyaku

When they burn down the businesses in those neighbourhoods those businesses are generally not owned by blacks so the locals don’t give a shit, and if they were black owned then the looters see them as ‘Uncle Toms” and as such “legitimate” targets. There is something deeply pathological about black culture in the US and it is entirely self generated, no one elses ‘ fault but their own.
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November 26, 2014 8:49am
EAD

The most popular politician in France, Marine Le Pen has today demanded that France get it’s gold back from the Federal Reserve and Bank of England as it is “in the best interests of our nation”

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-11-25/here-comes-france-right-wing-leader-marine-le-pen-demands-central-bank-repatriate-fr

Now with Putin stockpiling Gold,
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/commodities/11226240/Putin-stockpiles-gold-as-Russia-prepares-for-economic-war.html and the Swiss about to vote on restoring gold backing after demanding the right to a referendum, http://www.smh.com.au/business/markets/will-swiss-referendum-save-the-gold-price-20141120-11qj8a.html China buying it hand over fist, Germany demanding there gold back from the Federal Reserve, perhaps something big is just around the corner? Perhaps all these countries are “conspiracy theorist” countries, or perhaps they know that only Gold is real money and want to swap their fiat before the world economy crashes as a result of another central bank bubble?

Perhaps they remember the quote “Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value – zero.” (Voltaire, 1694-1778)

EAD is stocked up on Gold (and Silver and Platinum), I hope you are to in order to protect yourself from the economic storm that is coming:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/david-cameron-warns-of-new-global-economic-crisis-9864307.html
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November 26, 2014 8:53am
Lindsay Addie

Re the NZ Herald and their coverage of the Judith Collins report, this article by Matt Nippert strikes me as rather odd.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=11364284

Does anyone else agree that its not very good journalism?

BTW I’m not a Judith Collins fan!
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November 26, 2014 8:57am
Odakyu-sen

Its a shame that all that energy and burning vitality of the black community in Ferguson can not be channelled towards positive, community-building activities, rather than destruction and momentary self-gratification.
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November 26, 2014 8:58am
Inandout

Odakyu-sen: Protestors no, looters yes. These idiots would have been planning this shopping spree for weeks, probably visiting these shops and picking out the best stuff to loot. The MSM saying they are venting ‘anger/frustration’ is just bullshit, but the end result of course is that they will now have to beg for state assistance because they have burnt all the food outlets. I clearly remember the 3 day power blackout in NY State in 1977, when blacks went on a looting rampage. and the MSM explained away their criminal acts by saying they were releasing ‘pent up anger’. Oh, and we musn’t forget, when black cops shoot white criminals there is not a peep from the media.
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November 26, 2014 9:00am
EAD

@ Odakyu,

but there are no votes for the political elite and they can’t maintain political control by encouraging racial harmony or “community-building activities”.

If people co-operated and got along, were free and independent then why would we need Politicians offering “solutions” to the “problems” that they themselves caused? Obama is perhaps the worst culprit in stirring the pot (“Travyon would have looked like my son”) but over here our Politicians are now playing the same game offering “solutions” to problems that invariably pit one group against another and cause resentment where previously there was none.
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November 26, 2014 9:03am
Keeping Stock

@ Lindsay – the Herald has to go large on the Goff/SIS thingee because there is blood on their hands with regard to the Chisholm report which had some rather unflattering things to say about Granny. They are in full spin mode at the moment, hoping no one will notice.

UPDATE: WO has just set this out in considerable detail…

http://www.whaleoil.co.nz/2014/11/chisholm-inquiry-four-answered-questions-matt-nippert/
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November 26, 2014 9:03am
georgebolwing

While governments through history and over time have tried, for various reasons, some benign, some less so, to counter it, the inevitable forces of economics have lead humanity towards living in large cities.

New Zealand is very urbanised, and has been for a long time: the urban population exceed that of rural areas in about 1911. In the US, it took till about the 1940s for that to happen.

This makes sense; economies of scale make it cheaper to do most things in a city.

I really, really, really worry when anyone, especially academics, start saying that the government has to have a regional development policy. Time and again through history we see the folly of governments trying to push against the inevitable forces of economics and “plan” economic development. Economic planing has never worked in the medium to long term, almost alsways does more harm than good and mostly delays the inevitiable at higher cost.

If people want to live in bumblefuck little towns in the country, fine. If they don;t, fine. But stop trying to think that it is either desirable or possible to make some far-flung hollow as prosperous as Auckland.
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November 26, 2014 9:05am
iMP

Oh goody, Jurassic Park returns. Here’s the trailer folks, for June 13 release. Hubris and mega dinosaurs.

https://conzervative.wordpress.com/2014/11/26/jurassic-park-returns/
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November 26, 2014 9:06am
Yvette

Can anyone who has read the Gwyn report more thoroughly than my vague attempt [illness doesn’t help any], please tell me what paragraph actually explains if Goff was in fact briefed on the Christchurch Israeli “backpackers” or not.
Damned if I can find confirmation of what surely is the crux of the issue.
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November 26, 2014 9:09am
Keeping Stock

Just when you thought Phil Goff couldn’t stoop any lower, he has. He has reportedly admitted to Guyon Espiner that he DID leak the contents of the Gwyn Report to journalists, but it was THEY who made the information public, not him, so it’s not his fault!

Tell that to the Judge Phil 😀
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November 26, 2014 9:09am
Odakyu-sen

Inandout,

I would hope that some journalist would explore your idea of “pre-meditated looting,” however, I realize that this would run counter to the established media “narrative.”

Thank goodness for the Internet and the opportunity for the instantaneous, massive and free sharing of information around the world.

EAD
“If people co-operated and got along, were free and independent then why would we need Politicians?”
What a great post-grad thesis that would make. I would happily contribute to the funding of that research in the social sciences.
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November 26, 2014 9:10am
flipper

The most devastating attack in Parliament since Muldoon did Moyle…..

Finlayson demolishes Turei and Norman.
From draft Hansard on the snap debate yesterday:

“…. Hon Christopher Finlayson: Why don’t you apologise to Rebecca Kitteridge?
METIRIA TUREI: Here we go. We can hear the Minister in charge of the NZ Security Intelligence Service, Chris Finlayson, no doubt making more personal attacks, as is his wont.
Hon Christopher Finlayson: Did you hear what you said today, you disgusting creature.

ORAL QUESTIONS:

10. Security Intelligence Service—Confidence
[Sitting date: 25 November 2014. Volume:702;Page:11. Text is subject to correction.]
10. METIRIA TUREI (Co-Leader – Green) to the Minister in charge of the NZ Security Intelligence Service : Does he have confidence in the New Zealand Security Intelligence Service?
Hon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON (Minister in charge of the NZ Security Intelligence Service): Yes.

Metiria Turei : Does the Minister consider it appropriate for the SIS director, Rebecca Kitteridge, to have made public statements in defence of the Prime Minister’s office during an election campaign and prior to the Inspector-General’s investigation into the role of the Prime Minister’s office in releasing SIS information?
Hon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON : That is a malignant description of what the director said. The director had made it clear, soon after her appointment, that after a 6-months settling in period she would make a number of public statements. That she did. As I say, the member’s characterisation of what Ms Kitteridge did is wrong, and it is malignant.

Metiria Turei : Given that two directors of the SIS have now interfered with a general election—Dr Tucker in 2011 and Ms Kitteridge in 2014—why would the New Zealand public have any confidence that the SIS will use its intended extended powers in the public interest, as opposed to National’s party political purposes?

Hon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON : If the previous question was malignant, then that question was especially malignant. She does no service to her party or this place by asking filth like that. The director of the SIS is a highly professional woman who is doing a great job and is acting on the recommendations of the Inspector-General in a very careful and professional manner. ”
• Full transcript of Questions for Oral Answer for Tuesday, 25 November 2014 [PDF 85k]

Turei sat down and glowered. Good.
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November 26, 2014 9:15am
tvb

Goff as good as admitted on morning report that he leaked the SIS report he got in advance to journalists but “under embargo”. The serial leaker when it suits him may have been caught out at last. I hope the Inspector gets a transcript of the IV and then decides what action to take. It is a lovely postscript to this episode.
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November 26, 2014 9:16am
EAD

Odakyu – it’s called Laissez Faire (or Austrian economics as opposed to Progressive/Keynesian economic & political systems)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laissez-faire

“Laissez-faire (/ˌlɛseɪˈfɛr-/, French: [lɛsefɛʁ] ( listen)) is an economic system in which transactions between private parties are free from intrusive government restrictions, tariffs, and subsidies, with only enough regulations to protect property rights”

“The Laissez Faire economy was the dominant economic model during the 19th century and early part of the 20th century during a time when the world witnessed the largest ever rise in the global middle class. The beginning of The Progressive Era and consequent retreat of the Laissez Faire era began at the start of the 20th century and took a giant leap forward with the establishment of the Federal reserve and Income Tax in 1913 in the USA”
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November 26, 2014 9:17am
Manolo

The incompetent Messiah, saviour of men and appeaser of riots:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2848308/Obama-begs-calm-rioters-set-fires-attack-police-cars-Ferguson-grand-jury-refuses-indict-police-officer-Michael-Brown-case.html
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November 26, 2014 9:24am
marcw

@Yvette: I share your grief. From my understanding at present, it appears Dr Tucker spoke to Phil Goff about the Israeli’s, but did not provide any written notes. Phil Goff then complained he had not had any ‘briefing’, Dr Tucker said he had but did not elaborate to say it had been a verbal briefing. Phil Goff complained that was not right, as he had not received any written briefing and the confusion was never clarified and the rest is history. Can someone else confirm this is essentially what happened? Phil Goff is his own worst enemy, and I’m not surprised no one wants to speak to him or trust him about anything. He has probably done his chips now, after admitting he has broken the law by leaking an embargoed document on Monday. He almost had it, but has snatched defeat from the jaws of a partial victory, and all his own work.
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November 26, 2014 9:24am
Keeping Stock

I predicted on WO’s blog yesterday before QT that Finlayson would shred Turei, and he delivered. The words flipper published above are strong, but the tone in which they were delivered was vintage Finlayson. He is one of National’s best performers in the House, and was in exceptionally good form yesterday. Key chose well in making Finlayson responsible for the SIS and GCSB, and Finlayson fired a warning shot at the Greens yesterday – check this out:

http://youtu.be/5lryY_DYO88
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November 26, 2014 9:25am
georgebolwing

@EAD

Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value – zero.” (Voltaire, 1694-1778)

I probably know that I can’t use logic to get you off your desire to return to the gold standard, but other readers might be interested in this extract from the entry on “Monetary Cranks” from The New Palgrave Dictionary of Economics (Second Edition, 2008)

Any explanation of the appeal of these ideas over generations would have to invoke sociology and psychology. Such ideas found strong support because they enabled persons to impress their peers with their apparent understanding of economics, even though they had no formal training in the discipline. They offered the false hope that there were simple solutions to the complexities of modern economic life. They also transcended party political allegiances – similar passages about ‘credit slavery’ and ‘Shylocks’ can be found in Hitler’s Mein Kampf and left-wing pamphlets of the same era. A very wide range of individuals can be opposed to private banks and the ‘Money Power’ without their opposition leading to more sophisticated political analysis. In fact, as the history of populism shows, ‘Funny Money’ beliefs provided a kind of ideological release valve.

The history of ideas contains numerous examples of the power of the phrase-monger. The simpler the panacea, the greater the chance the agitator will have of attracting a following. As the Chartist agitator Ernest Jones once advised (cited in Martin and Rubinstein, 1979, p. 43): ‘We say to the great minds of the day, come among the people, write for the people and your fame will live forever.’
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November 26, 2014 9:26am
James Stephenson

Just when you thought Phil Goff couldn’t stoop any lower

I damn near drove off the road yesterday when I heard him talking about the importance of his personal reputation and integrity.
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November 26, 2014 9:28am
Keeping Stock

He would think those things are important JS, given his own personal reputation and integrity have disappeared out the window.
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November 26, 2014 9:33am
Elaycee

It is rare I agree with the musings of Mark Reason, but this time he has it right:

Last weekend, Lewis Hamilton won his second World Driver’s Championship in his Mercedes F1 car – his closest rival for the title (Nico Rosberg) had ‘mechanical’ problems in his similar car and finished well back. But Hamilton’s behaviour after the race resembled that of a spoilt brat – even an attempt by Prince Harry to pass on his congratulations on winning the title (via the Mercedes comms network), was ignored. Instead, Hamilton came back to the podium area and made a dash for his girlfriend….. before (eventually) heading across to thank the same people who had worked on his car all year – his mechanics. And the TV coverage of his girlfriend positioning herself so the cameras could get the best shot of her prolonged kiss on Hamilton’s helmet, was vomit inducing.

No doubt about it: Hamilton is a top shelf driver behind the wheel of the best car on the grid this year. As a lad in karts, he was identified by McLaren as a potential star and he was a member of the McLaren development squad (under the watchful eye of Ron Dennis) for many years prior to entering F1. But cracks quickly appeared – during his second year in F1, reports surfaced of Hamilton suggesting to anyone who would listen, that he was bigger than McLaren itself. So it was no real surprise when Mercedes opened the chequebook and Hamilton turned his back on the same team that had nurtured his development over the years, to follow the dollars.

Lewis Hamilton is all about Lewis Hamilton. Reason himself describes Hamilton as being all about ‘Me, me, me”. Indeed, he has morphed from the likeable, hugely talented youngster we watched make his F1 debut with McLaren, into a complete prat.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/opinion/63518688/Reason-McCaw-Ko-legends-but-Hamiltons-an-ass
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November 26, 2014 9:35am
James Stephenson

“Don’t it alway seem to go, that you don’t know what you’ve got ’til it’s gone…”

Taxi for Mr Goff!
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November 26, 2014 9:36am
georgebolwing

@EAD.

No, No, No. “Laissez Faire” is not Austrian economics.

The “Austrian economics” you seem to favour is a very narrow, largely discredited, view of the world promoted by the von Mises Institute.

John Quiggen, in his article on Austrian Business Cycle theory, (http://johnquiggin.com/2009/05/03/austrian-business-cycle-theory/) makes the following salient point about this theory:

To sum up, although the Austrian School was at the forefront of business cycle theory in the 1920s, it hasn’t developed in any positive way since then. The central idea of the credit cycle is an important one, particularly as it applies to the business cycle in the presence of a largely unregulated financial system. But the Austrians balked at the interventionist implications of their own position, and failed to engage seriously with Keynesian ideas.

The result (like orthodox Marxism) is a research program that was active and progressive a century or so ago but has now become an ossified dogma. Like all such dogmatic orthodoxies, it provides believers with the illusion of a complete explanation but cease to respond in a progressive way to empirical violations of its predictions or to theoretical objections. To the extent that anything positive remains, it is likely to be developed by non-Austrians such as the post-Keynesian followers of Hyman Minsky.
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November 26, 2014 9:36am
kowtow

Finlayson the lawyer may be a match for second rate far leftists in the House and as such is a good front for National on that score . How ever I don’t trust him or the behind the scenes Treaty appeasement and sell out that is going on under current national leadership.

http://www.nzcpr.com/our-foreshore-seabed-precious-enough-to-fight-for/
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November 26, 2014 9:37am
Odakyu-sen

EAD,

I am familiar with concept and execution of Laissez Faire. Unfortunately, since Laissez Faire is a natural system, it can be pretty brutal. But then, all natural systems are.

For example, when you gaze out on to your back lawn, you may think that all you see is grass. What you are really witnessing is a death struggle (a “turf war” if you will) between several species of clovers, grasses, buttercups and dandelions, all vying for living space.

I was an ecology undergraduate before crossing over to commerce, and have always been amazed at the similarity between inter-species and inter-corporate competition strategies for scarce resources.
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November 26, 2014 9:39am
Kimbo

@ flipper

The most devastating attack in Parliament since Muldoon did Moyle…..

To be fair to Muldoon and the circumstances around that incident, it was a spontaneous attack provoked by some off-the-cuff accusations some Labour MPs made and were laughing about concerning one of the partners in Muldoon’s accounting firm. Moyle actually wasn’t one of them, but Muldoon mistook who said what in heat of the moment.

Despite the show-boating, faux outrage and grand-standing that surrounds much of question time, you can sometimes glimpse beneath the surface that the protagonists retain a certain professional respect for one another. They understand it is a staged situation with its own rules of conduct and in many cases you can envisage the people in question sharing a beer and a laugh together afterwards at Bellamy’s, comparing notes like you do after a club rugby game.

What Turei and Finlayson went through yesterday was very different. Her questions, and the lather of outrage Norman was whipping himself into yesterday (I think I saw a report he yelled across the lobby of the Beehive at Key when he was being interviewed by journalists), was not spontaneous. And neither was Finlayson’s response to the questions. It came from keep down in his guts, and revealed the contempt he has for the Greens. Like he really considers Turei a loathesome creature that needs to crawl back under the rock from whence she came.

Part of me thinks it is almost inevitable that the Greens will get into Government some day. I don’t like ’em, but for the sake of NZ, I would at least hope they have some level of responsibility when they do. Instead, having been smacked down at the election for running the Dirty Politics side-show, rather than modifying their approach and becoming more moderate and acceptable, they are still running with the plot-theory anti-establishment, anti-business, anti-everything narrative Penny Bright’s risible 99% mob have been failing to achieve traction with since…forever.
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November 26, 2014 9:40am
doggone7

Leak? Kitteridge report? Peter Dunne got to be a Minister again so maybe Phil Goff knows what it takes.
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November 26, 2014 9:44am
Shawn Herles

@ EAD

“Odakyu – it’s called Laissez Faire (or Austrian economics”

To be accurate, the Austrian School is one version of Laissez Faire, the Chicago School being another, and there have been others in history.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_school_of_economics

And even within the Austrian School there are a variety of opinions on various issues.

“Austrian economist Friedrich Hayek stated that a freely competitive, laissez-faire banking industry tends to be endogenously destabilizing and pro-cyclical. He stated that the need for central banking control was inescapable.”
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November 26, 2014 9:46am
flipper

Good stuff Kimbo
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November 26, 2014 9:47am
georgebolwing

I note that Kim Dotcom is backe in the high court in Auckland, represented by a new partner and a senior associates from Simpson Grierson.

Could any of the lawyers present explain what an “Application for Order Declaring that Solicitor for First Respondent (Dotcom) has ceased to be the Solicitor On the Record” is all about?
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November 26, 2014 9:52am
Inandout

Go our Chris, Turei is no match for your scathing language, and if handbags were involved she would be battered and bruised. But why can’t you be so forceful when you are negotiating giving away our lands?
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November 26, 2014 9:54am
fernglas

GB@9:52
Probably formalising the fact that SG no longer act for him and are therefore no longer the address for service etc., although it seems odd that something like that needs to be heard in Court. It will be interesting to see if there is any argument about it. The SG and Davison QC withdrawal earlier was from the extradition proceedings, not from the civil proceedings brought by the studios.
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November 26, 2014 9:57am
Rich Prick

Was anyone else concerned that Little might have a stroke during QT yesterday? He really needs to get his blood pressure down a bit, we don’t want endure another Labour leadership contest any time soon.
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November 26, 2014 10:06am
Shawn Herles

@ Odakyu-sen

“Unfortunately, since Laissez Faire is a natural system, it can be pretty brutal.”

I have become deeply skeptical about Laissez Faire, for two reasons. The first being that in it’s purist libertarian form it is an essentially abstract ideology, much as Communism is. That is, it does not begin with observation of reality, but with an ideology that it then tries to force reality to conform to.

For example, according to Austrian theory monopolies only exist because of the State, and in a “pure” market they would not. I think a case can be made that this is ideology in contradiction to observable reality.

The other reason I am skeptical is that Laissez Faire, like all classical Liberalism, is philosophically founded on individualism. Austrians call this methodological individualism. All forms of both Laissez Faire and Libertarianism begin and end with the individual.

This is contrary to Traditionalist Conservatism. The philosophical starting point for TC is the family. The family, not the individual, is the foundation of society. Without the family, there are no individuals.

A Conservative approach to economics must be focused on the family first. To me, this means that it must reject both Laissez Faire and Socialism, both of which are contrary to a family first approach.

The Social Market economy is a better philosophical fit for Traditional Conservatives, and it avoids the extremes of a purely abstract ideological approach by taking a more family friendly and pragmatic approach to economic issues.

“The social market economy was designed to be a third way between laissez-faire economic liberalism and socialist economics.[5] It was strongly inspired by ordoliberalism[6] and the tradition of Catholic social teaching or, more generally, Christian ethics.”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_market_economy
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November 26, 2014 10:09am
wreck1080

New government regulations mean that employers must teach employees about alcohol responsibilities.

This is just as bad as the shower flow restrictions under labour.
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November 26, 2014 10:12am
georgebolwing

@Shawn

You have to be careful about terminology here. There are many variants of “the Austrian School” of economics.

Carl Menger’s 1871 Grundsätze der Volkwirthschaftslehre is recognized in the history of economic thought (alongside Jevons’s 1871 Theory of Political Economy, and Walras’s 1874 Eléments d’économie politique pure) as a central component of the ‘marginalist revolution’. Very mainstream.

Two younger Austrian economists, Eugen von Böhm-Bawerk and Friedrich von Wieser (neither of whom had been a student of Menger), became enthusiastic supporters of the new ideas put forward in Menger’s book. During the 1880s a vigorous outpouring of literature from these two followers, from several of Menger’s students, and in particular a methodological work by Menger himself, brought the ideas of Menger and his followers to the attention of the international community of economists.

After the First World War, the “Austrian” tradition becomes embodied in two very different characters: Hayek and Mises. Similar views, at least in the early days, but now with very different reputations.

Hayek won the Nobel Prize and it one of the greats of the profession. Very strong on the economics of knowledge, and in particular on how much government intervention can only be justified if governments have better infomarmation tha the market, which they rarely will. His intellectual decendents are the Chicago School.

Ludwig von Mises is very different. He was born in the city of Lemberg, in Galicia, Austria-Hungary (now L’viv, Ukraine), and so is both Austrian by birth and part of the economic tradition of Austrians. But his work is highly disrespected in most economic circles.

In a 1957 review of his book The Anti-Capitalistic Mentality, The Economist said of von Mises: “Professor von Mises has a splendid analytical mind and an admirable passion for liberty; but as a student of human nature he is worse than null and as a debater he is of Hyde Park standard.” Conservative commentator Whittaker Chambers published a similarly negative review of that book in the National Review, stating that Mises’s thesis that anti-capitalist sentiment was rooted in “envy” epitomized “know-nothing conservatism” at its “know-nothingest.”

His adherents continue to promote his crazy ideas at the Mises Institute, which describes itself as “The Mises Institute is the world’s largest, oldest, and most influential educational institution devoted to promoting the Austrian School of economics, freedom, and peace in the tradition of classical liberalism.” (http://mises.org/) They really are nutjobs. These are the Austrians that EAD likes.
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November 26, 2014 10:15am
Brian Smaller

Was anyone else concerned that Little might have a stroke during QT yesterday? He really needs to get his blood pressure down a bit, we don’t want endure another Labour leadership contest any time soon.

Nobody does faux-outrage like a lefty.
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November 26, 2014 10:29am
Maggy Wassilieff

@ Odakyu-sen 9:39am
” I was an ecology undergraduate before crossing over”…..

Not too late to cross back and gen up on
resource partitioning
http://www.nature.com/scitable/knowledge/library/resource-partitioning-and-why-it-matters-17362658

and niche differentiation in plant communities
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v515/n7525/full/nature13869.html

Who knows…. these might have some application in the cut-throat world of commerce.
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November 26, 2014 10:32am
oldpark

Watching Andy Little in Parliament yesterday. He came over as a complete ignoramous, completely confirming his status as a trade union lackey. Of course they did install him, as Liebour Party Leader in the interim, until such times as a real leader turns up.
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November 26, 2014 10:36am
Redbaiter

“I have become deeply skeptical about Laissez Faire,”

On the other hand, he’s right into “voodoo, hoodo and other wonderful things”.
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November 26, 2014 10:43am
Keeping Stock

@ Elaycee – I wonder if Hamilton is auditioning to take over from Bernie Ecclestone as F1 supremo when Father Time catches up with Ecclestone. He certainly has a few attributes 😉
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November 26, 2014 10:46am
Shawn Herles

@ George

“You have to be careful about terminology here. There are many variants of “the Austrian School” of economics.”

Oh, I totally agree. That was part of my point as well. I’m reasonable familiar with AS theories in general, and used to read the free books at Mises, and I’m aware that the Mises/Lew Rockwell fringe are not exclusively representative.
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November 26, 2014 10:50am
waikatogirl

Wreck1080: New government regulations mean that employers must teach employees about alcohol responsibilities
New government regulations mean that employers must teach employees about alcohol responsibilities

***
I’m with you on that! As an employer you have a responsibility to control alcohol intake at company functions, but employees will not take kindly to interference from the boss when it comes to imbibing on their personal times. Especially those who rely on alcohol for various emotional crutches…

Have any of these government beauracrats dealt with an alcoholic? Once someone has reached this horrible level of dependence, it requires specialist intervention, not some well-intentioned employer!

I suppose this new law means the poor employer will now be expected to pay for alcohol dependent employees to attend re-hab, even though their squaffing of alcohol has been achieved by their own self-indolgent hand. 🙁
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November 26, 2014 10:56am
Redbaiter

WG- You voted for it.

National are the same nanny staters as Labour. Or more to the point, are intent on pandering to an out of control over manned bureaucracy when they should be FIRING THEIR DAMN ARSES and getting them off the public payroll.

We are better off with these bureaucrats on the dole doing nothing as at least then they are not creating minefields of impossible legislation and expecting businesses to find a way through.

I’d guess you’ll find some dopey commie UK import at the top of the collection of dimbulbs behind the subject legislation.
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November 26, 2014 11:06am
EAD

@ Odakyu,

You are right, life initially would be brutal for some if we were to go immediately back to a laissez faire society as the below article notes:

http://mises.org/library/cultural-and-political-consequences-fiat-money-0

“But at the same time, no household and no firm individually has an interest in abolishing the fiat system and putting in its place a natural monetary system. The short-term costs of such a transition would be immense. In this, we see that we are in a “rationality trap” in which one is motivated to maintain the fiat money system in spite of all its downsides, and because the culture at this point is so transformed by more than a century of easy access to fiat money”

@ George blowing – you have absolutely no clue as to what we at the Mises Society are about. You’ve just copy pasted an anti Austrian article from th New York Times or some other joke publication. Unlike Shawn, you have no idea what you are talking about when it come Austrian economic theory (even though we disagree).

Mises, Rothbard, Hayek are the “mainstream” pillars of Austrian thought and Rockwell is regarded as being one of the leading current thinkers in the school. They aren’t the “fringe” as you suggest.
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November 26, 2014 11:19am
Redbaiter

“Turei sat down and glowered.”

I watched the clip and I don’t know that she “glowered”. Just seemed to have the same vacuous smug expression as always. With her squeaky voice and rotund body, she reminds me of a pull string teddy bear. Except teddy bears have far greater intellectual resources.
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November 26, 2014 11:31am
Odakyu-sen

Nooooo Maggy! Noooooooooooooo!
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November 26, 2014 11:40am
Odakyu-sen

Shawn: “This is contrary to Traditionalist Conservatism. The philosophical starting point for TC is the family. The family, not the individual, is the foundation of society. Without the family, there are no individuals.”

Good point.

To focus solely upon individualism is ultimately futile as all individuals are mortal. However, the “family” can persist over time.

On the other hand, too much of a “family” focus leads one to exclude capable individuals who are not “family.” It can also foster an “us vs. them” mindset, which is how many conflicts develop.

Maybe it’s best to look after both yourself AND your family. (Life is a compromise and a balancing act, but then, so are all dynamic systems.)
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November 26, 2014 11:49am
Redbaiter

Whereas I have a problem with Libertarianism because it I see it as too doctrinal, SH’s objections are firmly rooted in his religious beliefs. He rejects Libertarianism because it is godless and instead prefers to promote a fiercely religious ideology that he likes to imagine is the only pure form of Conservatism.

That aside, its navel gazing bullshit that only exists in the cloistered staffrooms of academic and religious institutions where people isolated from real world problems have the time to fool with such detail.

People struggling to make a living in today’s cronyist and over-regulated business environment have much more simple and direct viewpoints because their livelihood is dependent upon and directly affected by political outcomes. They don’t have the time to spare for introspective navel gazing academic bullshit.

Usually their viewpoints are driven by their own discomfort at today’s political chaos, and the changes they see as necessary, rather than a narcissistic or childlike craving for attention.
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November 26, 2014 12:02pm
georgebolwing

@EAD

I’m a professional economists, and I have kept up my readings in the history of economic thought and economic methodology for over 30 years. I visit the Mises Institute website regularly when I am in need of a good laugh.

I have also read widely of the many critics of the Mises/Rothbard sub-school, including those of John Quiggen, Mark Blaug, Thomas Mayer, Leland Yeager and especially Bryan Caplan. I find his Why I Am Not an Austrian Economist particularly good.( http://econfaculty.gmu.edu/bcaplan/whyaust.htm)

Rockwell is regarded by a very narrow group of economists as being the leader of a very narrow sub-school of economics. “Fringe” is in the eye of the beholder, but Rockwell has five entries as author in the on-line Econlit database, four of them published by the Ludwig von Mises Institute.

When you put Mises, Rothbard and Hayek together, you demonstrate to me that you have little understanding of economic methodology. As Caplan puts if “My equation of Austrian economics with Mises and Rothbard rather than F.A. Hayek is bound to be controversial. The primary justification for this is simply that Mises and Rothbard clearly rejected many of the key elements of modern neoclassical economics, while Hayek did not. If Mises and Rothbard are right, then modern neoclassical economics is wrong; but if Hayek is right, then mainstream economics merely needs to adjust its focus.”
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November 26, 2014 12:05pm
Redbaiter

“I’m a professional economists (sic)”

That explains a lot. Another one into voodoo.
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November 26, 2014 12:12pm
EAD

@ George,

I’m not going to get in an argument over who is the most qualified out of us but nearing the end of my economics dissertation I learnt that what I’d been told by my Keynesian lecturers at Otago was a pile of horseshit. Keynesianism and the Chicago School are nothing but discredited schools of economics that are used to justify Political interference in the economy.

The whole “aggregate demand” that underpins Keynesianism economics is faulty because demand is irrelevant without taking into consideration supply. You can’t “stimulate” an economy by raising demand as without supply all you do is increase aggregate prices.

Too have an efficient market, you need a properly functioning price signal which is impossible when you have governments and central banks and fiat money distorting the price signal. Borrowing money that is not as a result of savings or lowering interest rates below their free market rate stores up misallocations of capital until you have a bust which is the cause of the boom bust cycle.

Everything you represent the Mises academy to be is a lie and an blatant smear. As a member for the past 5 years, I think I am just slightly more qualified as to what our school of thought is and isn’t!
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November 26, 2014 12:27pm
EAD

And right on cue, Zerohedge has an article revealing that George Blowhard is just another intellectually bankrupt right winger who worships big government:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-11-25/another-keynesian-debt-boondoggle-how-brussels-plans-turn-26-billion-390-billion

“The desperation and fraud of the Keynesian policy apparatus gets more stunning by the day…….

Needless to say, this latest $400 billion shell game is just another monument to the Keynesian paint-by-the numbers affliction that is corroding capitalist prosperity everywhere in the world. When the state tries to micromanage the economy through fiscal maneuvers and central bank intervention it ends up confusing sustainable generation of real wealth with transient headline numbers in the GDP accounts. Indeed, the former can not be generated or targeted by the state at all; it is an unplanable outcome produced by millions of producers, consumers, savers, investors, innovators and entrepreneurs in the real main street economy.”
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November 26, 2014 12:43pm
Odakyu-sen

Geez EAD.

Two downticks in less than 10 minutes.

There must be Keynesians in the house.
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November 26, 2014 12:59pm
RF

What the hell is Goof up to. Tells his boss that he did not leak the report and then goes on TV admitting that he did. That’s left Chicken Little high & dry.

The man is mad.
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November 26, 2014 1:03pm
Manolo

The true motive of a-gun-for-hire comrade Laila Harre’s resignation:
http://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/im-officially-broke-kim-dotcom/ar-BBfQxx6?ocid=mailsignout

Gone are the days of lavish parties, super yachts and helicopter rides: Kim Dotcom is officially broke.

He said he’d spent $10 million defending himself against entertainment giants and the United States government seeking to extradite him to face piracy charges.

“I’m officially broke right now,” Dotcom said, cracking a smile.

“My legal team has recently resigned because I ran out of money after spending $10m to try and defend myself.
“They [the US government] have certainly managed to drain my resources and dehydrate me.”
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November 26, 2014 1:03pm
georgebolwing

“Everything you represent the Mises academy to be is a lie and an blatant smear”.

They’re actually opinions. And they are the ones I hold. I think that the Mises Institute are crackpots. I can’t find it on the web, but they used to have this wonderful online quiz “Are you an Austrian?”. If you got an answer “wrong”, you were given a reading list to allow you to see the error of your thinking. One I got wrong was to suggest that national defence was a legitimate role for government. Apparently, in the preferred anarchist society protective agencies linked to insurance companies is all you need. To quote Hans-Hermann Hoppe in one of the readings I was sent: “I will demonstrate that the idea of collective security is a myth that provides no justification for the modern state, and that all security is and must be private.”. (See p. 335 ofhttp://mises.org/sites/default/files/Myth%20of%20National%20Defense%2C%20The%20Essays%20on%20the%20Theory%20and%20History%20of%20Security%20Production_3.pdf).

Of course I don’t mind you having your own views. I do, however, object to your frequent assertion on this blog that the very narrow, heterodox views of the Mises institute have much validity within the economics profession.
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November 26, 2014 1:07pm
georgebolwing

@EAD

And right on cue, Zerohedge has an article revealing that George Blowhard is just another intellectually bankrupt right winger who worships big government

That’s not an article, it’s a rant by some anonymous dude on a web site.

I hate big government. I have spent 25 of my 30 years as an economist advising governments to stop doing most of the things they do. OK, i have failed, but i’m playing a long game.

In quick summary, my preferred world would include:

a) no direct government provision of goods and services ever . That is, no direct state provision of health, education or housing.

b) repeal of all legislation seeking to protect adults from their own actions. Repeal of most regulation of business, with reliance on law of tort and contract.l

c) maybe, a very limited benefit system, paying the subsistence wage in return for at least 40 hour of mindless activity per week (walking clockwise in a shed): the idea is to make it a worse alternative than any productive employment. Still thinking about this.

d) privatisiation of every state-own enterprise and, in fact, almost every government-owned asset. Maybe Parliament House should be owned by the Crown, but even then, why? It’s a building. Rent it.

e) a GST of 10% (maybe less0 to fund the core services of Government (police, defence — sorry Mises Institute)
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November 26, 2014 1:25pm
stephieboy

As we can see here the Mises Institute dabble in all kinds of stuff including pseudo science and history as well as the usual conspiracy theory stuff like Pearl Harbour and 9/11.

Apparently they use Somalia as their Libertarian exemplar as well as many believing that the Confederacy was good stuff for the Black slaves and some even want a Neo Confederacy established . Naturally their into gold buggery and Ron Paul as one of their chief mentors and idols .

Real Moonbat stuff if you ask me.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Ludwig_von_Mises_Institute
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November 26, 2014 1:31pm
Ryan Sproull

c) maybe, a very limited benefit system, paying the subsistence wage in return for at least 40 hour of mindless activity per week (walking clockwise in a shed): the idea is to make it a worse alternative than any productive employment. Still thinking about this.

Fucking hell, dude, keep thinking.
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November 26, 2014 1:32pm
deadrightkev

KS

“He (Finlayson) is one of National’s best performers in the House, and was in exceptionally good form yesterday.”

Actually KS Finlayson is a disgraceful scoundrel.

His appeasement of Maori over the past two election terms without justification makes him historically illiterate and corrupt.

You can ignore the billions he is doling out to people on the basis of race and fictional treaty claims but it will come back to haunt him and his fellow appeasers.
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November 26, 2014 1:46pm
Griff

Kim Dotcom ‘broke’, ‘defenceless’ and facing jail
https://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/kim-dotcom-broke-defenceless-and-facing-jail-6175172
A “broke” Kim Dotcom has posted an internet Q & A, saying it could be his “last public appearance” before going to jail.

The internet entrepreneur is facing a court hearing tomorrow which could end with his bail being revoked, and Mr Dotcom being jailed.

Mr Dotcom started the seminar by saying, “on Thursday I have a bail hearing where they are trying to lock me up and put me in jail again”.

He went on to say that he’s “defenceless” after going broke, having spent $10 million dollars on lawyers.

“Without lawyers I’m defenceless,” Mr Dotcom said.

An extradition hearing will be held in June to give Mr Dotcom time to get new lawyers. His most recent lawyers resigned after the internet mogul says he was unable to pay them.
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November 26, 2014 2:03pm
Griff

shit dpf posted same story as I was posting.
😆
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November 26, 2014 2:08pm
Longknives

Fingers Crossed Phillip Hughes comes out of this okay- Top batsman and by all accounts a nice guy..
But hearing some fucking idiot on the radio calling for the Bouncer to be ‘Banned’ just made my blood boil. Same as when Admire Rakti died of a Heart Attack after the Melbourne Cup, wowsers were calling for Horse Racing to be banned.
What is wrong with people that their first instinct is always to ‘Ban’ something??
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November 26, 2014 5:04pm
dad4justice

John Key and Whaleoil text each other. New Zealand is a cess pit of lies! What a sick sad country.The lying Key has no credibility, he must resign and apologize to the voter!
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November 26, 2014 6:05pm
Reid

White House Quietly Releases Plans For 3,415 Regulations Ahead Of Thanksgiving Holiday

http://www.zengardner.com/land-dont/
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November 26, 2014 6:49pm
mikenmild

What is with that pitch in Sharjah?
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November 26, 2014 7:06pm
big bruv

mikenmild

That pitch is not uncommon in that part of the world, the dodgy bit about it is that the wicket block has plenty of grass on it.
Since we lost the toss we will lose the game. Had we batted first we had a slim chance of winning but a draw was odds on, losing the toss means losing the game.
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November 26, 2014 7:43pm
nasska

Sorry but I haven’t a clue about the Sharjah pitch Mike but I’ve located a bloke who may be able to help. 🙂 http://www.trueislam.info/trueislaminfo/Askimam/
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November 26, 2014 7:45pm
big bruv

knives

I’m all for banning a ‘sport’ that is cruel. When I am PM the first ‘sport’ that I will ban is steeplechasing, then I will have a bloody good look at horse racing as well.
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November 26, 2014 7:48pm
wreck1080

why does john key persist with blog-nasty cameron slater.

Slater has only ever been a negative drag on national.
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November 26, 2014 8:01pm
twofish

dad4justice – Yes, apparently Slater texted Key, and yes, it was about a cesspit of lies

“I had confirmation from two journalists that Phil Goff was the one who briefed them about the report and the source of the leak.
I texted John Key, and informed him of the source of the leak. He thanked me. No discussions of the content of the IGIS report were held, it was a brief exchange.”
– Cameron Slater
http://www.whaleoil.co.nz/2014/11/labours-dirty-politics-scam-busted/#more-165165
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November 26, 2014 8:03pm
Viking2

GOD to ST. FRANCIS:
Frank, … You know all about gardens and nature.. What in
the world is going on down there on the planet? What
happened to the dandelions, violets, milkweeds and stuff
I started eons ago? I had a perfect no-maintenance garden
plan. Those plants grow in any type of soil, withstand
drought and multiply with abandon. The nectar from the
long-lasting blossoms attracts butterflies, honey bees and
flocks of songbirds. I expected to see a vast garden of
colors by now. But, all I see are these green rectangles.

St. FRANCIS:
It’s the tribes that settled there, Lord. The Suburbanites.
They started calling your flowers ‘weeds’ and went to
great lengths to kill them and replace them with grass.

GOD:
Grass? But, it’s so boring. It’s not colorful. It doesn’t
attract butterflies, birds and bees; only grubs and sod
worms. It’s sensitive to temperatures. Do these
Suburbanites really want all that grass growing there?

ST. FRANCIS:
Apparently so, Lord. They go to great pains to grow it
and keep it green. They begin each spring by fertilizing
grass and poisoning any other plant that crops up in the lawn.

GOD:
The spring rains and warm weather probably make
grass grow really fast. That must make the Suburbanites happy.
ST. FRANCIS:
Apparently not, Lord. As soon as it grows a little, they
cut it-sometimes twice a week.

GOD:
They cut it? Do they then bale it like hay?

ST. FRANCIS:
Not exactly, Lord. Most of them rake it up and put it in bags.

GOD:
They bag it? Why? Is it a cash crop? Do they sell it?

ST. FRANCIS:
No, Sir, just the opposite. They pay to throw it away.

GOD:
Now, let me get this straight. They fertilize grass so
it will grow. And, when it does grow, they cut it off
and pay to throw it away?

ST. FRANCIS:
Yes, Sir.

GOD:
These Suburbanites must be relieved in the summer
when we cut back on the rain and turn up the heat.
That surely slows the growth and saves them a lot of work.

ST. FRANCIS:
You aren’t going to believe this, Lord. When the grass
stops growing so fast, they drag out hoses and pay
more money to water it, so they can continue to mow
it and pay to get rid of it.

GOD:
What nonsense. At least they kept some of the trees.
That was a sheer stroke of genius, if I do say so myself.
The trees grow leaves in the spring to provide beauty
and shade in the summer. In the autumn, they fall to
the ground and form a natural blanket to keep moisture
in the soil and protect the trees and bushes. It’s a
natural cycle of life.

ST. FRANCIS:
You better sit down, Lord. The Suburbanites have
drawn a new circle. As soon as the leaves fall, they
rake them into great piles and pay to have them
hauled away.

GOD:
No!? What do they do to protect the shrub and
tree roots in the winter to keep the soil moist and loose?

ST. FRANCIS:
After throwing away the leaves, they go out and buy
something which they call mulch. They haul it home
and spread it around in place of the leaves.

GOD:
And where do they get this mulch?

ST. FRANCIS:
They cut down trees and grind them up to make the mulch.

GOD:
Enough! I don’t want to think about this anymore.
St. Catherine, you’re in charge of the arts. What movie
have you scheduled for us tonight?

ST. CATHERINE:
‘Dumb and Dumber’, Lord. It’s a story about….

GOD:
Never mind, I think I just heard the whole story
from St. Francis.
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November 26, 2014 8:06pm
Viking2

DAMN straight!!!

Have you ever wondered what the difference is between Grandmothers and
; Grandfathers? Well, here it is:

There was this loving grandfather who always made a special effort to spend ; time with his son’s family on weekends. Every Saturday morning he would
take his 5-year-old granddaughter out for a drive in the car for some quality time — pancakes, ice cream, candy– just him and his granddaughter.

One particular Saturday, however, he had a terrible cold and could not get out of bed. He knew his granddaughter always looked forward to their drives and would be very disappointed.

Luckily, his wife came to the rescue and said that she would take their granddaughter for her weekly drive and breakfast. When they returned, the little girl anxiously ran upstairs to see her grandfather who was still in bed.

“Well, did you enjoy your ride with grandma?” he asked.

“Not really, PaPa, it was boring. We didn’t see a single asshole, queer, piece of shit, horse’s ass, tree hugger, socialist left wing prick, blind bastard, dipshit, Muslim camel humper or son of a bitch
anywhere we went! We just drove around and Grandma smiled at everyone she saw. I really didn’t have any fun.”
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November 26, 2014 8:20pm
Longknives

How exactly is Horseracing cruel Bruv?? (Bearing in mind I am a bit of an Animal lover and big on ‘Animal rights’ etc)
I own a couple of Gallopers and they absolutely love it- They are very pampered and looked after (a life of retirement/breeding awaits also)
*Agreed Steeplechasing should go- It is an abomination…
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November 26, 2014 8:21pm
Viking2

They say a Muslim born in Australia is an Australian.

BULLSHIT !!

A dog born in a stable is not a f……n horse !
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November 26, 2014 8:26pm
dad4justice

So it’s ok for the PM to lie about Whaleblubber , 14 people on this blog think so. As I said sick and sad stuff.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/63570264/John-Key-misled-Parliament
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November 26, 2014 8:28pm
Travis Poulson

When did Jacinda go visit Bill Clinton? http://happyplace.someecards.com/celebrities/a-woman-tried-to-take-a-selfie-with-bill-clinton-he-was-a-little-distracted/
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November 26, 2014 8:28pm
nasska

https://www.dropbox.com/s/dzeeylsw2nhfj4c/Muslim%2022.jpg?dl=0
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November 26, 2014 8:30pm
wiseowl

WG.@10.57 am. This is just more controlling legislation that the pollies bring in and don’t understand.
I have recently seen what is following on from the Food Act kindly passed by National as well and it is just more control for controls sake.
The Food Act will ensure many small kiwi businesses succumb to stupidity.
We need less regulation not more but we seem to blindly follow everything implemented in the US or the UK.
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November 26, 2014 8:36pm
twofish

John Key misled Parliament?

Labour leader Andrew Little said the development was “disturbing” and that Key must now be drawn into a review by the Inspector General of Intelligence and Security over whether her report had been discussed before its release … Little said that he expected Key to “co-operate fully with the inspector general” assuming he was called into her inquiry … Little said Key should release the texts to the public, as he said that it appeared to him that Key had told a lie.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/63570264/John-Key-misled-Parliament

If it’s true, as mentioned above, here’s the bit where it gets funnier –

“I had confirmation from two journalists that Phil Goff was the one who briefed them about the report and the source of the leak. I texted John Key, and informed him of the source of the leak. He thanked me. No discussions of the content of the IGIS report were held, it was a brief exchange.” – Cameron Slater http://www.whaleoil.co.nz/2014/11/labours-dirty-politics-scam-busted/#more-165165

Little said Key should release the texts to the public – Yes, that’s a good idea
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November 26, 2014 9:13pm
mikenmild

Do you think John Key personally texts with Cameron Slater, or does he have people who deal with that kind of unpleasantness?
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November 26, 2014 9:19pm
big bruv

knives

Ok, stopping horse racing might be a bit over the top but I do detest the way so many of the people involved don’t seem to have the animals best interests at heart.

I will not be swayed over steeplechasing though, it drives me mad that when a horse falls the racing set are all concerned for the jockey. I could not give a fuck about the jockey, he at least had a choice to enter the race. Steeplechasing is cruel and should be banned.
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November 26, 2014 9:24pm
itstricky

Do you think John Key personally texts with Cameron Slater, or does he have people who deal with that kind of unpleasantness?

Well, that’s the thing. Apparently they’re besties with each other on speed dial. Does that scare you?
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November 26, 2014 9:28pm
itstricky

I texted John Key, and informed him of the source of the leak. He thanked me. No discussions of the content of the IGIS report were held, it was a brief exchange.” – Cameron Slater http://www.whaleoil.co.nz/2014/11/labours-dirty-politics-scam-busted/#more-165165

You mean like kinda skipping over that whole “The PM lied” thing and moving quickly on to the next thing, right?
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November 26, 2014 9:29pm
EAD

Not only is the Mainstream Media a joke, they are also a bunch of cowards!

http://www.prisonplanet.com/independent-media-stands-in-face-of-ferguson-gunfire-while-mainstream-media-flees.html

Long live the alternative (or the truth telling if you will) media!
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November 26, 2014 9:35pm
big bruv

itstricky

Move on man, nothing to see here. The PM is the most popular leader this country has ever had. Key has been cleared of any wrong doing and that is the end of the matter.
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November 26, 2014 9:36pm

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