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November 20, 2014 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 20 November 2014

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General Debate

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MH

I think Obama and Key are brothers, the likeness is unmistakable and uncanny but Donald Trump should know.
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November 20, 2014 1:49pm
stephieboy

MH, Donald Trump.? Is this the one your referring to?

https://www.google.co.nz/search?q=donald+trump+jokes&client=safari&rls=en&tbm=isch&imgil=IPZIuuwcSSbMdM%253A%253BWMTf-CDiCbSvaM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.dailykos.com%25252Fstory%25252F2011%25252F04%25252F28%25252F971015%25252F-Donald-Trump-s-Hair-Creature-Must-Provide-Birth-and-Rabies-Certificates&source=iu&pf=m&fir=IPZIuuwcSSbMdM%253A%252CWMTf-CDiCbSvaM%252C_&usg=__2aVO_bVYJvV0wCKUD5r3BH-LVA4%3D&biw=1132&bih=765&ved=0CCkQyjc&ei=wT5tVJh1g7ebBcWvgKgG#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=IPZIuuwcSSbMdM%253A%3BWMTf-CDiCbSvaM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fi126.photobucket.com%252Falbums%252Fp103%252Faidanski%252Falbum3%252Ftrumpxxy.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.dailykos.com%252Fstory%252F2011%252F04%252F28%252F971015%252F-Donald-Trump-s-Hair-Creature-Must-Provide-Birth-and-Rabies-Certificates%3B450%3B486
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November 20, 2014 2:09pm
stephieboy

Fletch, but if Hilary Clinton succeeds in 2016 she be One year shy of Ronald Reagan. Not bad when you come to think of it.
Age no barrier to a successful Presidency.
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November 20, 2014 2:18pm
mikenmild

Don’t you think Reagan had some capacity issues by his second term?
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November 20, 2014 2:20pm
Manolo

Has stephieboy already declared his undying support for lardy Hillary? Has he?
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November 20, 2014 2:34pm
kowtow

Change is coming ,but only when it’s forced on the mainstream parties ,which only seek to stay in power ,not to represent the people.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/11242183/EU-must-change-or-we-quit-Tory-policy-chief-issues-warning-on-eve-of-Rochester-by-election.html
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November 20, 2014 2:40pm
stigie

@ Nookin Agree with your 12.56 comment….

Prime Minister John Key should be hung, drawn and quartered !!
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November 20, 2014 2:40pm
alex Masterley

Nookin,

I think that you are on to something here.
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November 20, 2014 2:42pm
kowtow

Why that change is urgently required.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/11240700/School-marked-down-by-Ofsted-for-being-too-white.html
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November 20, 2014 2:42pm
Longknives

Stuff has a Quiz-
‘Maori words Every New Zealander MUST know’

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/education/10786886/10-Maori-words-every-Kiwi-should-know

Why MUST New Zealander’s know these words? Is it compulsory now? (Like many here believe supporting the All Blacks is?)
I don’t know any of these words- (and have no intention of learning any) Am I no longer a New Zealander??

*And before Mikey or Stephie write me off as an ‘Ignorant Redneck’ I am University Educated and speak a little of several languages..
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November 20, 2014 2:49pm
publicwatchdog

See Kiwibloggers – to get OUTCOMES – you need to put things into a ‘sausage machine’ of some description, rather than just howl at the moon on Kiwiblog?

_______________________________________________________________________________________________

20 November 2014

NB: This is NOT an OIA request

‘Open Letter’ to NZ Prime Minister / Leader of the National Party / private citizen – to which Oath(s) have you, John Key, sworn allegiance?

http://www.justice.govt.nz/publications/global-publications/r/review-of-oaths-and-affirmations-a-public-discussion-paper-may-2004/part-d-specific-oaths#3.%20%20%20%20%20GOVERNOR-GENERAL%27S%20OATH

5. PARLIAMENTARY OATH

5.1 Background

After an election Members of Parliament must take the following oath of allegiance set out in the Oath and Declarations Act[29]. Members do not take a separate oath of office.

“I, [full name], swear that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Second, Her heirs and successors, according to law. So help me God.”

The purpose of the oath is to affirm loyalty to the Queen.

If the oath is not taken Members cannot sit or vote in the House[30].

_______________________________________________________________________________________________

4. GOVERNMENT MINISTERS’ OATH

(Executive Councillors’ oath)

4.1 Background

As Members of Parliament, Government Ministers are required to take the oath of allegiance. In addition, Government Ministers must also take the following Executive Councillors’ oath[28]:

“I, [full name], being chosen and admitted of the Executive Council of New Zealand, swear that I will to the best of my judgement, at all times, when thereto required, freely give my counsel and advice to the Governor-General for the time being, for the good management of the affairs of New Zealand.

That I will not directly nor indirectly reveal such matters as shall be debated in Council and committed to my secrecy, but that I will in all things be a true and faithful Councillor. So help me God.”

All Government Ministers are members of the Executive Council. The Governor-General appoints Executive Councillors on the advice of the Prime Minister. The Governor-General also presides over meetings of the Executive Council.

The role of Executive Council is to give legal effect to certain Government decisions, most commonly by making regulations. Some other matters, such as significant public appointments and the setting up of Commissions of Inquiry, must be put to the Executive Council before they can have legal effect.

The current Government Ministers’ oath has two main elements: the obligation to give advice to the Governor-General and the promise to keep secret what is discussed in Executive Council. These parts of the oath are longstanding, and are also in comparable overseas oaths.

________________________________________________________

http://www.uscis.gov/us-citizenship/naturalization-test/naturalization-oath-allegiance-united-states-america

Naturalization Oath of Allegiance to the United States of America
Oath

“I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty, of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the Armed Forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God.”

Note: In certain circumstances there can be a modification or waiver of the Oath of Allegiance. Read Chapter 5 of A Guide to Naturalization for more information.

The principles embodied in the Oath are codified in Section 337(a) in the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA), which provides that all applicants shall take an oath that incorporates the substance of the following:

Support the Constitution;

Renounce and abjure absolutely and entirely all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty of whom or which the applicant was before a subject or citizen;

Support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic;

Bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and

A. Bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law; or

B. Perform noncombatant service in the Armed Forces of the United States when required by the law; or

C. Perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law.

The language of the current Oath is found in the Code of Federal Regulations Section 337.1 and is closely based upon the statutory elements in Section 337(a) of the INA.

__________________________________________________________

Please be reminded of the following OIA reply, dated 13 October 2014, to a request asking whether you hold dual citizenship, and are also a citizen of the United States of America, has been refused, by the Ministry of Justice,

https://aotearoaawiderperspective.files.wordpress.com/2014/10/1071070710205264761283777_2188401525470637457_n.jpg

_______________________________________________________________________________________________

Please also be reminded of my following ‘Open Letter’, (dated 17 November 2014) for which I am awaiting a simple ‘YES’ or ‘NO’ reply:

17 November 2014

‘Open Letter’ to NZ Prime Minister / Leader of the National Party / private citizen – John Key – are you also a USA citizen?

Dear Prime Minister,

I understand that the following OIA reply, dated 13 October 2014, to a request asking whether you hold dual citizenship, and are also a citizen of the United States of America, has been refused, by the Ministry of Justice,

https://aotearoaawiderperspective.files.wordpress.com/2014/10/10710707_10205264761283777_2188401525470637457_n.jpg

Given your propensity to wear a number of hats, I believe that this question covers all bases, as it were.

This is a straight question, to which I request a straight answer.

This is NOT an Official Information Act request.

Do you, John Key, hold dual citizenship, and are you also a citizen of the United States of America – YES or NO?

Looking forward to your prompt reply, which should arguably take no longer than 30 seconds?

Yours sincerely,
Penny Bright

‘Anti-corruption / anti-privatisation Public Watchdog’

Attendee: Australian Public Sector Anti-Corruption Conference 2009
Attendee: Transparency International Anti-Corruption Conference 2009
Attendee: Australian Public Sector Anti-Corruption Conference 2013
Attendee: G20 Anti-Corruption Conference 2014

2013 Auckland Mayoral candidate (polled 4th with 11,723 votes)
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November 20, 2014 2:50pm
Manolo

Miss Dim reeks of corruption. Her stench is unbearable.
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November 20, 2014 2:55pm
graham

Hello again Penny!

Please be reminded of this question which I have been asking you for more than two years – which you have NEVER answered.

===============================================================================

If you, Penny, were to run for a local body election again, such as Mayor of Auckland or MP for Botany or Remuera, would you commit to abide by the principles of points 4 and 5 of the “Draft Action Plan” that you have often talked about, and Occupy Auckland’s General Assembly supports? The two points in question are:

4. Legislate for an enforceable ‘Code of Conduct’ for NZ Members of Parliament (who make the rules for everyone else).

5. Make it an offence under the Local Government Act 2002 for NZ Local Government elected representatives to breach their ‘Code of Conduct’.

In other words, will YOU, Penny Bright, happily sign up to a ‘Code of Conduct’?

If not – WHY not?

===============================================================================

Now I realise you’re very busy, but as replying to this should arguably take no longer than 30 seconds – in my considered opinion – I do look forward to your prompt answer. 🙂

Have a LOVELY day! 🙂
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November 20, 2014 2:59pm
Left Right and Centre

(1) 24/7 prepay at the pump. NEXT !!

(2) Tourists wishing to drive in NZ must pass level one Tetris minimum. NEXT !!

(3) Is it just me, or does Andrew Little look a wee bit like Bain ? He’s no Brad Pitt at any rate. I hope on 3 News they give a warning if Little and Paddy Gower are going to be on screen at the same time – *wow*. Move over Freddy Kruger. Warning – we’re about to show severe graphic images of aesthetically disadvantaged individuals – viewer discretion is advised. I’d like a function on my Freeview that takes about 80-90% off the contrast and brightness with one press – ‘in case of eye bleed emergency’. The big red *fugly* button.
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November 20, 2014 2:59pm
Fletch

One from the archives – Clinton shakes hands with JFK.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0uErdlyTUo

Photo – http://popwebnews.com/20-rarest-historical-photos/
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November 20, 2014 3:01pm
Longknives

And speaking of the most laughably deluded, arrogant sports team in the World.. Check out what they are crying about now-

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/international/63366968/All-Blacks-miss-out-on-try-of-the-year-honours

“The world’s No 1 ranked team and eternal excitement machine aren’t in the mix for the international try of the year yet there are at least three efforts from the All Blacks that are surely worthy of consideration, Stuff rugby writer Duncan Johnstone says.”

Oh the outrage! Surely no other team in World Rugby are capable of scoring entertaining tries?? It’s a ‘Pommie Conspiracy’! Waah!!
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November 20, 2014 3:04pm
stigie

What was that smell that just drifted past ????
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November 20, 2014 3:04pm
mikenmild

Are the ABs complaining or are you using a journalist’s ramblings as a excuse to vent your hatred?
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November 20, 2014 3:07pm
stephieboy

A blast from the past . This hilarious encounter with the Queen of the Birther movement Orly Tatz. I doubt if Monty Python could do better but I hope they give it a try. Actually reminiscence of the inanities of Dead parrot sketch come to think of it superbly realised by John Gleese and Michael Palin.

But I think they would be understandably slighted by the comparison.

And to think that Ed Snack , Manolo, kowtow, Fletch etc continue to swallow Orly Tatz’s
tripe including I would add President Obama’s Half Brother’s alleged Muslim Brother hood conncetions.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/22/joe-miller-obama-muslim_n_3798849.html

But do observe carefully her nuttiness as she goes bonkers over Ann Caulters criticism of her .
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November 20, 2014 3:08pm
Dazzaman

Longknives (4,847 comments) says:
November 20th, 2014 at 2:49 pm

Stuff has a Quiz-
‘Maori words Every New Zealander MUST know’

…….

And……………..I am University Educated and speak a little of several languages..

Well…..won’t be hard for you then……
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November 20, 2014 3:11pm
kowtow

Clinton shakes hands with JFK……….

……JFK counts fingers to ensure they’re still all there.
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November 20, 2014 3:19pm
cricko

Akaroa @ 11.56

Great question.

She would have made a great circus master/mistress.

Maybe one of the bunch of loons that jump through her hoop every time she cracks her whip can explain the attraction.

Seems like every time she pulls the chain a legion of loons/sheepels cant help but flush.

She must love it. And thrive on it.

Silly loons/sheeplels
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November 20, 2014 3:20pm
mikenmild

Well, I only got 9/15 Longknives, but I’m a bit disturbed that an educated chap like you stumbled over such difficult words as waka, tamariki and puku.
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November 20, 2014 3:23pm
kowtow

Maori words every kiwi should know.

Why?

Strikes me that these uni wallahs don’t have anything worthwhile to do.
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November 20, 2014 3:24pm
Fletch

The Watts team do a search of all the scientific papers they can find that even mention a pause or slowdown in global warming, using the same methodology as the people who claimed their was a 97% consensus on global warming (which has largely been debunked).

What did they find? Of the papers that mention a pause, every single one of them agree that a pause is happening.

We identified papers published between 2009 and 2014 and currently cataloged in the Web of Science database that included either the term “pause” or “hiatus” or “slowdown” and subsequently, the terms “global” and “temperature.” We then read the abstracts of those papers (or the papers themselves if further investigation was required) and assigned them to one of the following three categories: “not applicable,” “acknowledging the existence of a slowdown or stoppage in global warming (as reflected in the earth average surface temperature) in recent years,” and “arguing that a slowdown or stoppage of global warming (as reflected in the earth average surface temperature) has not occurred in recent years.”

Of the 100 papers we identified, 65 didn’t have anything to do with recent global temperature trends (these typified papers published prior to about 2010). Of the remaining 35 papers, every single one of them acknowledged in some way that a hiatus, pause, or slowdown in global warming was occurring.

In other words, we didn’t find a single paper on the topic that argued the rate of global warming has not slowed (or even stopped) in recent years. This is in direct opposition to the IPCC’s contention that global warming is accelerating, and supports arguments that the amount of warming that will occur over the remainder of the 21st century as a result of human fossil fuel usage will be at the low end of the IPCC projections, or even lower. Low-end warming yields low-end impacts.

We surely may have missed a few papers that were not cataloged in the database we used, or that weren’t captured by our search terms, but the evidence is overwhelming—virtually all (if not actually all) scientific papers that mention a hiatus or pause agree that it exists.

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2014/11/18/if-97-of-scientists-say-global-warming-is-real-100-say-it-has-nearly-stopped/

It’s pretty well agreed that there has been no warming for 18 years and one month.
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November 20, 2014 3:25pm
Longknives

“Well, I only got 9/15 Longknives..”

You sure you are qualified to wear that huge Bone Carving round your neck then Mikey?? I’m sure the Te Wananga ‘University’ will be able to help you out with a Masters Degree through the mail..
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November 20, 2014 3:27pm
publicwatchdog

Yes Graham – I would.

4. Legislate for an enforceable ‘Code of Conduct’ for NZ Members of Parliament (who make the rules for everyone else).

5. Make it an offence under the Local Government Act 2002 for NZ Local Government elected representatives to breach their ‘Code of Conduct’.

In other words, will YOU, Penny Bright, happily sign up to a ‘Code of Conduct’?

___________________________________________________________________________________________________

Happy chappy you?

😉

Her Warship
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November 20, 2014 3:33pm
kowtow

Some people call it the diversity dividend.Others say we must celebrate multiculturalism and the enriching it brings.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2841225/Fury-police-bid-protect-Birmingham-grooming-gang.html
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November 20, 2014 3:37pm
publicwatchdog

Well Kiwibloggers – it’s all been rather fascinating.

Neither the NZ Department of Internal Affairs (Citizenship), nor the US Embassy will ‘respond to questions regarding individuals’ citizenship’, in both cases because of both countries respective Privacy Acts.

But here’s the rub.

I absolutely support the right of individual citizens to privacy – but – the public equally have the right to transparency regarding those holding public office.

So – what next?

I have received an assurance from a Senior Private Secretary to Prime Minister John Key, that his ‘understanding’ is that John Key is not a US citizen.

Well, sorry, but that means big, fat diddley squat to me.

Didn’t work for John Banks, relying on the understanding of his Treasurer regarding his 2010 Auckland Mayoral returns?

Just a simple, TRUTHFUL answer from John Key in the House, should do it?

Which MP from which political party is going to ask him this simple question?

“Do you, John Key, hold dual citizenship, and are you also a citizen of the United States of America – YES or NO?”

Kind regards

Penny Bright
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November 20, 2014 3:43pm
stigie

The Senior Private Secretary to Prime Minister John Key could be lying Penny….?
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November 20, 2014 3:53pm
Nookin

Penny, thank god you are back.

Are you going to investigate Key’s share holding in Microsoft and his relationship with Bill Gates? Every time you upgrade you may be putting money into Key’s secret trusts.

Even more importantly, will you check MH’s concern that Key and Obama are brothers and are conspiring?
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November 20, 2014 3:58pm
Left Right and Centre

A corrupt NZ run by a fascist dictatorial John Key would still probably be entirely palatable compared to whatever mind melting insanity that society would become if overseen by Penny Bright.

This country would be like those Powerball winners that are broke again a few years later.
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November 20, 2014 4:06pm
wikiriwhis business

Kelly Weines The key when researching this topic is to not use the term “Chemtrails” instead, use the proper scientific term “geo-engineering.” Go to wikipedia and search “chemtrails” you will find it’s considered just a conspiracy theory. Now search wikki for “Geoengineering.” Entirely different set of results describing the EXACT same thing, and is fully accepted as a documented fact by the government, scientists, military and Nasa, is patented, and is backed by decades of research. Then watch at least the first 15 minutes of this lecture. I can promise you around the 15 minute mark, your going to be paying attention. After the 30 minute mark, it will have your full undivided attention. And right about the one hour mark, you are going to be be down right terrified as you suddenly put the entire puzzle together and realise the true reality of what’s going on around you.
http://youtu.be/c34U0Pwz4_c
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November 20, 2014 4:20pm
wikiriwhis business

Legislation to Ban Chemtrails gets Huge Public Support [Public Hearing in Long Island]
~Unslave Humanity Tactical Media: http://whynotnews.eu/?p=2143 ~support: http://new…
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November 20, 2014 4:20pm
minus

I’ll ring John Key’s office and try and find out when I can expect a reply to my question.

John Key added 2 new photos. · 177,208 Likes · 7 hrs – I was delighted to welcome Chinese President Xi Jinping 习近平 and First Lady Madame Peng to New Zealand last night.
Missed the official welcome this morning but expect to attend the lunch.
Oops haven’t replied to that Penny Tarnish’s fucking email yet.

See Kiwibloggers – to get OUTCOMES – you need to put things into a ‘sausage machine’ of some description, rather than just howl at the moon on Kiwiblog?

cut / paste / dump same fucking drivel as last post – 6949 characters 1037 words 61 paragraphs
suggest to John Key – “Looking forward to your prompt reply, which should arguably take no longer than 30 seconds?”
30 fucking seconds to reply … or read it … or both
Nothing explains getting OUTCOMES … there apparently aren’t any … yet
shit, that’s what leaves kiwibloggers howling at the moon

So – what next?
I have received an assurance from a Senior Private Secretary to Prime Minister John Key, that his ‘understanding’ is that John Key is not a US citizen.
Well, sorry, but that means big, fat diddley squat to me.

Oops, I’m starting to sound a little like Cameron Thing trying to track down more dirt on Len the Rooter.
You know DIRTY um POLITICS, which I’ve claimed I don’t do
And Watchdogs don’t of course bark until they have something … otherwise they may just be barking mad

Which MP from which political party is going to ask him this simple question?
Does the Prime Minister have ministerial responsibility for himself?
Woof woof
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November 20, 2014 4:21pm
wikiriwhis business

this will give you an idea how brainwashed the USA is…Obama declared US as a Islam state..

http://www.truthandaction.org/high-school-students…/
High School Students Recite Pledge In Arabic: ‘One Nation Under Allah’ – Truth…
truthandaction.org
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November 20, 2014 4:24pm
publicwatchdog

How is it ‘dirty politics’ to ask NZ Prime Minister, Leader of the National Party, private citizen John Key – DIRECTLY – whether or not he has dual nationality and is also a citizen of the USA?

DUH?

Seriously?

In my view – it’s a straight question to which I expect a straight answer.

What on earth is wrong with that?

Oh – that’s right.

It appears that when it comes to questions regarding TRANSPARENCY many Kiwibloggers are simply from another galaxy?

Penny Bright
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November 20, 2014 4:35pm
Ryan Sproull

This “Is John Key a US citizen?” thing smacks of “Was Obama born in Kenya?”
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November 20, 2014 4:40pm
Kea

Re: Which leaders were born where.

I believe the relevant laws should be changed so it makes no difference where someone is born. The notion that it does, in the USA context, goes against rather a lot else they hold themselves to. It is also inconsistent with our stated values here in NZ.

In a democratic society we should get the person we vote for. I don’t care if JK is a US citizen and has a Jewish mum. I care that he was fairly elected and that he fulfills his role well.

That frees us up to put the best person in the job.
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November 20, 2014 4:54pm
EAD

A lot of truth to the below quote. From economic policy to “global warming” to “the war on terror” to mass immigration to “values education”, I’ve never seen the world adopt such a collectivist mind set as it is at this moment in time.

“From its very inception, the Leninist/Marxist ideology of the Soviet Union made it a central priority to dispel and subjugate religious and spiritual expression. The state was “god.” No other god could be allowed to flourish, for if the people were given license and freedom of belief in something beyond themselves and beyond the establishment, they would retain a sense of rebellion. The collectivist philosophy requires the utter destruction of all competitors; otherwise, it can never truly prevail. The New World Order, an ideal often touted by globalists and defined by their own rhetoric as a scientific dictatorship in which collectivism is valued and individualism is criminalized, seems to me to be — in its ultimate form and intention — a battle for the human soul”

http://www.alt-market.com/articles/2413-the-new-world-order-does-it-all-just-boil-down-to-a-battle-for-your-soul
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November 20, 2014 4:57pm
minus

How is it ‘dirty politics’ to ask NZ Prime Minister if he has dual nationality and is also a citizen of the USA?

Maybe because it seems to be just muck-raking.
A little like, does Penny Bright – rates “protester” – honestly and transparently have the due rates and penalties total in a stewardship account ready to pay over if her differences with the Auckland Council are resolved.

Do you?
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November 20, 2014 5:00pm
Kea

EAD, just to clarify that for you; The motivation was Socialism and not atheism.
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November 20, 2014 5:01pm
SPC

Why not have a free market for politicians and trade them like sports players?

With a TPP in place and corporate power supreme over the “free trade empire” national sovereignty and national interest become obsolete.
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November 20, 2014 5:01pm
EAD

Yes and no – The State became “God” in the progressive Soviet Union
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November 20, 2014 5:03pm
twofish

@ Minus
Or a slight variation on the question –
When Auckland Council start publishing contract information as they promise to, like Auckland Transport does, will Penny Bright resume paying her rates from that point on, and ignore paying the $32,000 [approx] due while the Council did not comply with her demands?
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November 20, 2014 5:08pm
SPC

Kea, it only requires citizenship to be an MP/PM. Savage for one was born offshore, a lot of them in the 19thC were too.
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November 20, 2014 5:10pm
Kea

EAD, yes socialists demand that all obey them. It is the most pervasive feature of the left: Total control over other people.
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November 20, 2014 5:12pm
Kea

SPC, Yes my point was a broad one that did not focus on one jurisdiction. But thanks anyway as I was uncertain what our laws said about that.
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November 20, 2014 5:13pm
cricko

On and on it goes.

Penny Bright runs the circus.

She cracks her whip.
Watch the drongs jump through the hoops for her.
Like Pavlovs dogs.
They just can’t seem to help themselves.

She seems to have complete control over drongs like, say, ‘minus’ @ 4.21 above and all the like minded drongs.

Regardless, I must give her credit for being able to manipulate so many so easily.

She asks the questions, the drongoes respond on cue. (Pavlovs salivating dogs) She never needs to
address questions the drongoes ask in vain.
Why should she, they will keep barking anyway.

Question: Is it that she is so smart or that the circus animals are so fricken dumb ?

Must be either one or t’other.
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November 20, 2014 5:14pm
Kea

cricko, I liked you better as, bereal.

Unusually I am drinking a few wines while commenting. Lets see who can talk the most drivel and use the most unusual formatting, in our comments ? 🙂
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November 20, 2014 5:18pm
SPC

EAD, Economic liberty without political liberty and a global market with corporate property rights supreme over national sovereignty is as barren as a socialist state. A wealthy elite and a party elite both see sheep beneath them.
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November 20, 2014 5:18pm
Kea

SPC, I do agree. I was contemplating this on a recent work related trip. Our society is ruled by comsumerism and marketing. It is all about the $$$

I realise this has always been human nature. It is not new. But the balance has changed and the social narrative is dictated by corporations and those with commercial goals.

The reason we have 7 day trading is not demand. It is because of marketing creating demand. Peoples lives have become so barren they shop to fill the void. One of the first things people do in another country is go shopping ! How sad is that.
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November 20, 2014 5:26pm
cricko

Hey Kea,

I love you too.

For the record.

What part of my observations submitted @ 5.14 do you have a problem with ?

Of course, all the Pavlovs dogs are going to down tick me for pointing out the obvious but where have I got it wrong, in your mind ?
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November 20, 2014 5:38pm
Reid

Neither view says anything much about Key, but do say a great deal about how much people on the political fringe are disconnected from reality.

Most people who say for example Key is a poll driven fruitcake are neither far left or far right, they’re simply people who perceive reality as it in fact is, as opposed to that flavour of people who foster some hallucination they proceed to call reality not because it is, but merely because they would prefer it to be that way.
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November 20, 2014 5:58pm
Kea

cricko, don’t take it personally. The “dogs” are pretty tough on me as well.

If you want upticks, post early and pour hate on muzzies. Try and mention how nice Jewish folk are too 😉
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November 20, 2014 6:00pm
Travis Poulson

Good to see a replay of the Aussie ginger on the news: “GIMME MY FLAG BACK”.
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November 20, 2014 6:04pm
Shawn Herles

“EAD, just to clarify that for you; The motivation was Socialism and not atheism.”

Just to clarify, bullshit.

Marxism and atheism are the same thing. Not all atheists are Marxists of course, but all Marxists are, or at least must be in order to be consistent with Marxism.

Atheism, and especially, the view that religion is is made redundant by “progress, science and reason” is fundamental to the Marxist world view.

That such a world view killed hundreds of millions of human beings in a very short amount of time, is in part due to it’s notion that far from being icons of God, human beings were disposable cogs in the machine of “progress.”

And while they might not be Marxists, I hear the same ideology peddled on KB, and given the level of hatred it is often expressed in, my view is that the onus is on atheists to prove that they are not anymore dangerous than Islamic terrorists.

Because history ain’t on their side as far as that is concerned.
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November 20, 2014 6:05pm
minus

Cricko – What part of my observations submitted @ 5.14 do you have a problem with ?

Basically I think we all realise responding in any way is a fucking waste of time, but unfortunately we don’t all act on that together.
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November 20, 2014 6:06pm
stephieboy

A useful rebuttal to wiki’s claims about chemtrials so beloved of Conspiracy theorists which are often used to blame all kinds of maladies from eczema, skin cancer to psychiatric disorders . And of course as means of controlling and coercing the sheeple to usher in the NWO,

Likely to blamed too for other events like 9/11 , Fukishima ,Sandy Nook etc, etc

http://conspiracies.skepticproject.com/articles/chemtrails/

And I see EAD seeks escape from his recent nightmare into climate denial nutter from the usual conspiracy websites .
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November 20, 2014 6:07pm
Kea

Reid, If I recall correctly you believe in God ?

I seem to recall us sparring over that topic. Yet you seem to see other issues in a way that suggests you are not enslaved by that belief, as a written dogma. As Lucy would be, by way of example.

Am I right ?
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November 20, 2014 6:08pm
Rowan

http://i.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/63379501/Battle-for-All-Blacks-No-10-spot-won-by-Barrett

Poor reasoning and selections Steve especially with your reserves, how will it be “better for DC” to be starting afresh with the crusaders next year rather than playing this week?

PS This is a serious question not an open invite for LK and Bigot Blouse to start their ab hate rant!
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November 20, 2014 6:08pm
Travis Poulson

Penny Bright:

“It appears that when it comes to questions regarding TRANSPARENCY many Kiwibloggers are simply from another galaxy?

Penny Bright”

Uh uh. I suspect most of us are in a different galaxy to you. On what planet do you think that a protesting upstart that doesn’t pay her rates is entitled to an answer from the Prime Minister of a nation when she demands it? Good grief woman.
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November 20, 2014 6:09pm
Shawn Herles

“Most people who say for example Key is a poll driven fruitcake are neither far left or far right, they’re simply people who perceive reality as it in fact is”

Na. Almost every single person on KB who thinks that tends to be far Right or far Left.

And get ten of each together in a room and you will get twenty different views of “reality” with a lot of mutual ideological denunciations, and claims that one lot or another are disinfo agents.

Being on the fringe is not necessarily a bad thing, but our fringe politics is more an example of the consumerist nature of modern politics. There is a flavor for everyone, no matter how whacked. 😉
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November 20, 2014 6:10pm
cricko

Hey Kea.

I’ll try again.
What part of my submission @ 5.14 do you take issue with ?

Simple question….

Do you have any response on topic ?
( or are you just a ‘poor me’, “the dogs are pretty tough on me as well.” FFS)

ps your referrence to ‘Jewish folk’ is disgusting.
:
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November 20, 2014 6:13pm
Kea

Shawn, what say Key said he was an atheist ?

Would your observations be so calm and reasoned ?

I agree with you, as I often do. But as soon as you get those dammed god-goggles on your mind goes all funny.
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November 20, 2014 6:15pm
stephieboy

Kea,

“EAD, just to clarify that for you; The motivation was Socialism and not atheism.”

Palpably false. There was a concerted attempted by your Marxist Leninist brethren in the Soviet Union to systematically destroy religion and replace it with an ideology and Atheism.
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November 20, 2014 6:16pm
Kea

“your referrence to ‘Jewish folk’ is disgusting.”

bereal, you need to explain that remark ?

By any imagining it was neutral. So here is your chance to enter a real debate. Kea is on his second bottle of bubbly, so now is the time. 🙂
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November 20, 2014 6:17pm
Kea

stupidboy [warning from DPF]

Am I ?

1. A devout radical Muslim.

2. A Russian communist.

3. An atheist.

4. Confrontational about the main stream narrative.
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November 20, 2014 6:20pm
dad4justice

Don’t you mean your second bottle of vinegar you insane parrot!
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November 20, 2014 6:20pm
Kea

Mad Dad, yes I drink Vinegar.
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November 20, 2014 6:24pm
dad4justice

Yes I thought so that explains why you are so bitter all the time.
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November 20, 2014 6:25pm
MH

the importance of China to NZ are manifold, esp if you own a V8 Ford. With over 3,500 troops in the Fijian Army plus 6,ooo reservist c.f. our 4,500 regulars plus 2,500 Army Reserve we need protection from a friendly power, admitedly we have a navy and a few maritime patrol aircraft to delay any invasion plans but the threat is clear and present. I hope JK convinces the Chinese Premier to station troops here as well as a few J31 aircraft on farmland of their choice. The Warehouse must be protected at all costs, without China what would we eat on or clothe our poor children with or indeed be able to build more dwellings to house new immigrants?
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November 20, 2014 6:26pm
Kea

Dad for Mad, yes. I guess you embibe organic honey water infused with rose petals ?
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November 20, 2014 6:28pm
Reid

Reid, If I recall correctly you believe in God ?

Correct.

Yet you seem to see other issues in a way that suggests you are not enslaved by that belief, as a written dogma.

Christianity is not dogma Kea. The only people who think it is are those on the outside looking in who don’t understand it properly.

Such people and this includes some ex-Christians, look for “evidence” to back up their pre-determined conclusion and this is why it’s impossible to convince them otherwise, anymore than it’s possible to convince someone who knows nothing about 911 as to who did it, why they did it and how they did it, because, just like the former, the latter have already made their mind up and they look only at evidence which reinforces their pre-judgement: a.k.a. prejudice.

I’m not dogmatic Kea because I’m a logician. That’s what I’m trained in. And I’m therefore very happy indeed, on any matter whatsoever, to let the facts fall where they lie, I don’t care where, provided it constitutes a logical pattern. As Conan-Doyle famously wrote: when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth, this is the dictum I live by.

The issue that many come up against IMO, is that they don’t trust themselves enough to practice that, they’d rather, in my observation, take the easy path and just go along with what everyone else thinks, on the grounds that most people can’t be wrong. Which in my view is a fucking stupid way to live your life, because when you look around at most people, what the fuck would they know, on most matters.

And you only have to observe the dumbing down of everything to mention only one destructive social pattern, which most people just stand around and accept, most of them not even noticing it’s happening, to realise that what I just said might just be way more logical than that of people like Shawn for example, whose one who does the “what do other people think” bit, all the time, without even knowing that’s what he’s doing.
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November 20, 2014 6:29pm
stephieboy

Kea (13,180 comments) says:
November 20th, 2014 at 6:20 pm

Have you thought of submitting the paraddy of your life narrative on KB to the Monty Python team .?
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November 20, 2014 6:31pm
RF

As Hansen has had a dose of reality and does not want DC to fumble his way across the field this weekend, is anyone going to meet Granny at the Auckland Airport this weekend or is he staying on. Tradition is that if you are not wanted./ picked .. Home you go.

Hush my mouth.. DC will be a rat up a drain pipe and stay for the nosh and drinks after the game.
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November 20, 2014 6:31pm
nasska

MH

I sense that NZ will one day become a protectorate of China largely because of immigration but also because they will have bought 90% of our productive farmland.

The only bright spot is that I additionally sense that the lot of Muslim radicals & Maori separatists will not be a happy one.
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November 20, 2014 6:31pm
Kea

Reid, but for many it is dogma.

You then go on to undermine your faith based beliefs.

“I’m not dogmatic Kea because I’m a logician. That’s what I’m trained in. And I’m therefore very happy indeed, on any matter whatsoever, to let the facts fall where they lie, I don’t care where, provided it constitutes a logical pattern.”
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November 20, 2014 6:31pm
Kea

nasska, I have been having relations with a CHINESE lady who is MUSLIM !!!

In your opinion where does this position me ? 🙂
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November 20, 2014 6:33pm
cricko

No, silly billy Kea @ 6.17

You made the sick remark, I responded to it.

You need to explain what you meant by saying that if I want some upticks I need to say ‘How nice Jewish people are too.’

Answering a question with a question is a pathetic weak tactic Kea.

Also ‘ minus’, a great choice of a non de plume mate.

Either Kea or minus….. what part of my submission @ 5.14 do you take issue with ?
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November 20, 2014 6:36pm
Shawn Herles

‘Shawn, what say Key said he was an atheist ?”

Key has never struck me as particularly militant about anything. This pisses some people off. It’s why I generally trust him. It’s would-be political Messiah’s, of any ideological stripe, that tend to worry me.

“nasska, I have been having relations with a CHINESE lady who is MUSLIM !!!

In your opinion where does this position me ?”

Potentially dead if her family finds out. 😉
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November 20, 2014 6:39pm
Kea

Kea (13,182 comments) says:
November 20th, 2014 at 6:00 pm
cricko, don’t take it personally. The “dogs” are pretty tough on me as well.

If you want upticks, post early and pour hate on muzzies. Try and mention how nice Jewish folk are too 😉

Barking Mad Dad, so advise me which part was “disgusting” in relation to Jewish folk ?
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November 20, 2014 6:39pm
Kea

Shawn, She is very shy about mentioning that. About the only thing I notice is she lacks the Chinese taste for pork. Which is pretty terrible because they do it so well 🙂
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November 20, 2014 6:43pm
nasska

….”In your opinion where does this position me ?”…..

Sideways across the bed & facing Mecca! 🙂
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November 20, 2014 6:43pm
Johnboy

“I sense that NZ will one day become a protectorate of China largely because of immigration but also because they will have bought 90% of our productive farmland.”

Ah so young nasska! I trust I shall become mentor to the really young, over the top, shaolin monks of KB such as Shawn and Kea etc!

I suspect that my addiction to the Whisky bottle shall make me blind enough for the job! 🙂
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November 20, 2014 6:47pm
Reid

You then go on to undermine your faith based beliefs.

Actually Kea I find it illogical to imagine the universe and everything in it came about by random chance. There are millions of scientists who think the same thing I do. In fact I used to have several in my old congregation in Eastbourne.

There is no conflict between science and religion, none whatsoever.

Thinking there is, is another example of the pre-determined conclusion…
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November 20, 2014 6:50pm
nasska

Do you reckon Shawn could adapt to a rice bowl & saffron robes JB? 🙂
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November 20, 2014 6:50pm
nasska

Surely you’re not one of those heretics who believes that the world is more than 6000 years old Reid. 🙂
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November 20, 2014 6:53pm
Kea

“Actually Kea I find it illogical to imagine the universe and everything in it came about by random chance. ”

EVIDENCE for your beliefs please Reid ?

Oh and BTW, the choices are not random chance or YOUR God.
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November 20, 2014 6:53pm
Lucia Maria

A couple of days ago I asked Kea why he (or she) defends Russia.

The answer was:

Lucy, I have no connection with Russia. Unlike your churches deep commitment to genocide and nationalism, which you seem to support. As evidenced by your rabid support of neo nazis (see the pattern) in the Ukraine.

Considering that the second sentence in the answer is false, and presuming that Kea is of more than moderate intelligence and knows the second sentence is false, I’m going to assume that the first sentence is false as well as it’s supposedly contrasted with the second sentence.

Nasska doesn’t think Kea is particularly intelligent. I oscillate.

Anyway, Kea, since you are here, and possible sozzled, I going to ask you again why you defend Russia. You don’t deny that you defend Russia, you just avoid the question, first by distraction (throwing a number of comments at me) and then by denying only part of what I asked. So, what gives? Are you going to confess? It’s good for the soul, you know.
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November 20, 2014 6:54pm
Johnboy

I’ve never had a bird oscillate on me before Lucia.

I thought I’d done everything till I read that!

Dump hubby. Pop over to Wainui and lets “OSCILLATE” big time babe! 🙂
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November 20, 2014 6:58pm
nasska

On the attack tonight Lucia? 🙂
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November 20, 2014 6:58pm
IGM

Hope the trusties have a good reception arranged for the cat killer, Growcott of Greymouth, who has been imprisoned, not nearly long enough, for his despicable behaviour. This was reported in “Stuff”.
2 1
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November 20, 2014 6:58pm
graham

My word!

Penny – at 3:33 pm – has FINALLY ANSWERED A QUESTION!

And it’s only taken two years!

Penny, I’m … I’m just ecstatic! You’ve MADE MY DAY! 🙂

Now … let’s see if we can get you to answer some of the other 837 questions that have been asked of you. At this rate, we might just work through them by 2093.

Here’s a starter – you say that yes, you would sign up to an enforceable ‘Code of Conduct’. So my next question to you, Penny, is what would this ‘Code of Conduct’ entail and encompass?

Presumably, somebody standing for public office who was found to have STOLEN water, encouraged others to STEAL water, STOLEN electricity (as part of the Occupy movement), would not be looked upon very favourably under this ‘Code of Conduct’. And as for somebody standing for public office who proceeded to VANDALISE AND DEFACE the billboards of her opponents during the campaign – that wouldn’t be very seemly, now would it?

What do you say Penny? Would the above actions contravene a ‘Code of Conduct’?
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November 20, 2014 6:59pm
cricko

So that’s it.

Kea and minus give up. (well with a moniker like ‘minus’ what would you expect ?)

Typical of losers, when faced with logic they are unable to respond and their only response is to
try to skew the topic.

When that doesn’t work they resort to asking questions about the questions that they are incapable
of addressing.

Pathetic, sad losers.
Deserving only ridicule and contempt.
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November 20, 2014 7:01pm
Lucia Maria

Nasska,

Yes. Yes, I am.
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November 20, 2014 7:01pm
Johnboy

I wonder if Lucia uses capacitance to oscillate or if she goes for inductance? 🙂
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November 20, 2014 7:02pm
thedavincimode

Q: How does Mr Sheepshagger find his ewes in the long grass?

A: Very satisfying.
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November 20, 2014 7:04pm
Johnboy

I’m happy to give her 8.5 microfarads whatever way she swings! 🙂
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November 20, 2014 7:04pm
thedavincimode

Cheers beryl. Hic 🙂
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November 20, 2014 7:05pm

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