General Debate 18 November 2014

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Johnboy

We should have a whip round and send Penny over to Russia so she could take Vlad’s mind off attacking Ukraine while he dealt with her! 🙂
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November 18, 2014 8:16pm
nasska

Not that I’ve noticed Mike. When I first left school I worked for a cockie down the lower valley…..he always reckoned that in the course of a seven year cycle you’d see the best & the worst of both weather & prices.

I’ve seen bugger all that proves him wrong.
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November 18, 2014 8:18pm
Nostradamus

Johnboy:

We should have a whip round and send Penny over to Russia so she could take Vlad’s mind off attacking Ukraine while he dealt with her!

You’re second in line Johnboy!

Someone else (not sure who) has already put their hand up to send Penny on a fact finding tour to North Korea. I understand that North Korea, like Penny, has a particular interest in stamping out corruption. They would have plenty to discuss. Penny might even be able to learn something useful that she could share with Putin in the second stage of her world anti-corruption crusade.

Besides – it’d keep her away from Kiwiblog for a while – that’d be a bonus!
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November 18, 2014 8:20pm
Johnboy

Meanwhile Lucia could stride down to Wainui in her jackboots and I could take her mind off of attacking protected Parrots Nostradamus! 🙂
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November 18, 2014 8:23pm
nasska

https://www.dropbox.com/s/s62avt0ocdeyza1/Sheep%2056.jpg?dl=0
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November 18, 2014 8:31pm
Nostradamus

Something for Johnboy to consider in his ongoing battle for Lucia’s affections:

Woman shot after sex row: court told

A Wanneroo man accused of murdering his partner lost his temper and shot her in the head before telling police she had committed suicide, a jury has been told.
…
In his opening address, prosecutor Nicholas Cogin said Mr Anderson intended to kill Ms Lightfoot when he pulled the trigger. He said Ms Lightfoot had anger management problems and was a highly sexualised female who would get angry if she did not have enough sex.

He said this became a source of conflict in their relationship as Mr Anderson got older.

Mr Cogin told the court it was no secret the early stages of their union involved a “servant-slave” relationship.
…
Defence lawyer Gary Massey told the court his client was arguing with his partner about sex before she died.

He said she had thrown a ceramic cat at him and was abusing him when he picked up the gun.
…

Sex, a ceramic cat and a gun – sounds like things went a bit too far. Maybe they should have just had sex and left the ceramic cat and gun out of it?
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November 18, 2014 8:40pm
cha

Russia, formerly the powerhouse of the east is looking more and more like a knocked down SuperCheap battery charger.
/

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-11-14/apple-could-swallow-whole-russian-stock-market.html
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November 18, 2014 8:43pm
Johnboy

I only have ceramic statues of my deceased favourite sheep at Chateau Johnboy. No cat statues at all. There should be no worries in that case! 🙂
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November 18, 2014 8:43pm
Lucia Maria

I like cats.

Interesting link, Cha. Comparing countries with Apple. Somewhere I read that Russia had a GDP of similar size to Italy, and I see in that link that similar actually means less than.
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November 18, 2014 8:50pm
Johnboy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SbyAZQ45uww
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November 18, 2014 8:54pm
nasska

I was madly, truly in love with Nancy JB….

….then along came Suzi Quatro. 🙂
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November 18, 2014 8:56pm
Griff

love the reality displayed kids.
we measure temperature all over the globe.
Four different organization use these measurements to take the globes temperature.
This year is the warmest on record.
It is also the most costly for weather damage in New Zealand ever already this year.
And yet some idiot posts a prediction that it has been cooling for the last three years.
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November 18, 2014 8:59pm
Johnboy

If they have legs up to their crutches nasska and stomp you with their boots who gives a fuck what their names are I say! 🙂
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November 18, 2014 9:02pm
Lucia Maria

Griff,

I still have my winter blankets on the bed, in November. Last week, I had to have my electric blanket on all night on Wed or Thurs. How can it be the warmest on record?

Where’s Kea? My one question about Kea’s Russian connection seems to have caused a panic flight after the efforts to brand me a Nazi and a Nazi supporter didn’t stick.

And whatever happened to Godwin’s Law?
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November 18, 2014 9:03pm
Rachael Membery

Who says crime doesn’t pay?
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/63290796/Fraudster-set-to-lose-Austrian-millions
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November 18, 2014 9:04pm
nasska

Bugger the boots JB…..it’s her eyes that have inspired ten thousand hard-ons. 🙂

https://www.dropbox.com/s/b93n80hevfii12x/SQ.jpg?dl=0
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November 18, 2014 9:08pm
nasska

….”Where’s Kea?”….

https://www.dropbox.com/s/marwbqkfgm6qthq/Kea%20mating.jpg?dl=0
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November 18, 2014 9:10pm
mikenmild

Lucia
Kea isn’t bright enough to be anyone’s disinformation agent. He’ll be pleased we are talking about him though.
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November 18, 2014 9:10pm
dad4justice

“This year is the warmest on record.”

I don’t know what you’re smoking gripp but that is uttter bullshit.
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November 18, 2014 9:11pm
EAD

@ Lucia,

Most of us here (except Andrei) don’t support Russia as such, we support the truth and in general don’t want to be marched into a cataclysmic war by the use of what is obvious propaganda trying to paint Putin as a tyrant. Nothing more.

The propaganda is so easy to spot you’d have to be asleep to miss it
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November 18, 2014 9:11pm
Griff

I still have my winter blankets on the bed, in November. Last week, I had to have my electric blanket on all night on Wed or Thurs. How can it be the warmest on record?
because your little piece of paradise is not the whole globe.

I have not seen the nz temperatures for this month but it was one of the warmest NZ winters ever.
Here is a data base containing NZ temperatures by region have a look at your local trend.
http://berkeleyearth.lbl.gov/regions/new-zealand
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November 18, 2014 9:13pm
Rachael Membery

Johnboy (16,902 comments) says:

November 18th, 2014 at 8:23 pm

Seems to me that you do not like opinionated women and you sexualise the conversation to make the woman uncomfortable so she will shut up.

I think you should keep your unwanted attentions to yourself.

As for you other men that uptick this carry on, shame on you, I doubt other women are!!!
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November 18, 2014 9:13pm
Johnboy

That photo won’t turn Lucia on nasska. She only recognises the missionary position! 🙂
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November 18, 2014 9:14pm
Kea

Lucy, I have no connection with Russia. Unlike your churches deep commitment to genocide and nationalism, which you seem to support. As evidenced by your rabid support of neo nazis (see the pattern) in the Ukraine.
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November 18, 2014 9:15pm
Griff

dad4justice (8,294 comments) says:
November 18th, 2014 at 9:11 pm

“This year is the warmest on record.”

I don’t know what you’re smoking gripp but that is uttter bullshit.

Do you have proof d4j or is that just your opinion ?
http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/cag/time-series/global/globe/land_ocean/ytd/9/1880-2014
note this is only until September
http://www.giss.nasa.gov/research/features/201410_gistemp/
You may have heard that September 2014 was the warmest September ever recorded and that the past six months were the hottest April through September in 130 years of records.
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November 18, 2014 9:18pm
All_on_Red

Land based Temperature measurements are inaccurate. The margin of error is around .5K. There are other problems too. Do some research on Metrology.
It’s just ridiculous to claim points of a degree rise in the face of such an inaccurate form of measurement.
The numbers have all been adjusted too so the whole thing is a farce.
Berkeley have done their best ( pun) but the problems remain. New ones are being introduced to replace the Stevenson Screen but that means we start again.
Won’t stop the gullible changing what they really really want to believe though.
Edit and right on cue we see NCDC numbers put up which is a spliced mix of all sorts of sources including fiddled land based measurements. Just dumb to believe it.
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November 18, 2014 9:19pm
Johnboy

Don’t be silly Rachael. I only say what I do to upset ugly old blue-stockings like yourself in hope of the bite you have just given.

I much prefer sheep they are far more accomodating and more intelligent than the average woman on KB! 🙂
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November 18, 2014 9:19pm
Kea

Griff, who took the temperatures before the Maori arrived and established that data base ?

How did they measure temperature, before thermometers had been invented, so they [Pre Maoris] could enter that information on their computers ?
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November 18, 2014 9:21pm
big bruv

“I still have my winter blankets on the bed, in November. Last week, I had to have my electric blanket on all night on Wed or Thurs. How can it be the warmest on record?”

The never tough those Catholic girls.
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November 18, 2014 9:23pm
All_on_Red

Metrology – A guest re-post by Mark of Mark’s View

This post is actually about the poor quality and processing of historical climatic temperature records rather than metrology.

My main points are that in climatology many important factors that are accounted for in other areas of science and engineering are completely ignored by many scientists:

Human Errors in accuracy and resolution of historical data are ignored
Mechanical thermometer resolution is ignored
Electronic gauge calibration is ignored
Mechanical and Electronic temperature gauge accuracy is ignored
Hysteresis in modern data acquisition is ignored
Conversion from Degrees F to Degrees C introduces false resolution into data.
Metrology is the science of measurement, embracing both experimental and theoretical determinations at any level of uncertainty in any field of science and technology. Believe it or not, the metrology of temperature measurement is complex.

It is actually quite difficult to measure things accurately, yet most people just assume that information they are given is “spot on”. A significant number of scientists and mathematicians also do not seem to realise how the data they are working with is often not very accurate. Over the years as part of my job I have read dozens of papers based on pressure and temperature records where no reference is made to the instruments used to acquire the data, or their calibration history. The result is that many scientists frequently reach incorrect conclusions about their experiments and data because the do not take into account the accuracy and resolution of their data. (It seems this is especially true in the area of climatology.)

Do you have a thermometer stuck to your kitchen window so you can see how warm it is outside?

Let’s say you glance at this thermometer and it indicates about 31 degrees centigrade. If it is a mercury or alcohol thermometer you may have to squint to read the scale. If the scale is marked in 1c steps (which is very common), then you probably cannot extrapolate between the scale markers.

This means that this particular thermometer’s resolution is1c, which is normally stated as plus or minus 0.5c (+/- 0.5c)

This example of resolution is where observing the temperature is under perfect conditions, and you have been properly trained to read a thermometer. In reality you might glance at the thermometer or you might have to use a flash-light to look at it, or it may be covered in a dusting of snow, rain, etc. Mercury forms a pronounced meniscus in a thermometer that can exceed 1c and many observers incorrectly observe the temperature as the base of the meniscus rather than it’s peak: ( this picture shows an alcohol meniscus, a mercury meniscus bulges upward rather than down)

Another major common error in reading a thermometer is the parallax error.
Image courtesy of Surface meteorological instruments and measurement practices By G.P. Srivastava (with a mercury meniscus!) This is where refraction of light through the glass thermometer exaggerates any error caused by the eye not being level with the surface of the fluid in the thermometer.
(click on image to zoom)

If you are using data from 100′s of thermometers scattered over a wide area, with data being recorded by hand, by dozens of different people, the observational resolution should be reduced. In the oil industry it is common to accept an error margin of 2-4% when using manually acquired data for example.

As far as I am aware, historical raw multiple temperature data from weather stations has never attempted to account for observer error.

We should also consider the accuracy of the typical mercury and alcohol thermometers that have been in use for the last 120 years. Glass thermometers are calibrated by immersing them in ice/water at 0c and a steam bath at 100c. The scale is then divided equally into 100 divisions between zero and 100. However, a glass thermometer at 100c is longer than a thermometer at 0c. This means that the scale on the thermometer gives a false high reading at low temperatures (between 0 and 25c) and a false low reading at high temperatures (between 70 and 100c) This process is also followed with weather thermometers with a range of -20 to +50c

25 years ago, very accurate mercury thermometers used in labs (0.01c resolution) had a calibration chart/graph with them to convert observed temperature on the thermometer scale to actual temperature.

Temperature cycles in the glass bulb of a thermometer harden the glass and shrink over time, a 10 yr old -20 to +50c thermometer will give a false high reading of around 0.7c

Over time, repeated high temperature cycles cause alcohol thermometers to evaporate vapour into the vacuum at the top of the thermometer, creating false low temperature readings of up to 5c. (5.0c not 0.5 it’s not a typo…)

Electronic temperature sensors have been used more and more in the last 20 years for measuring environmental temperature. These also have their own resolution and accuracy problems. Electronic sensors suffer from drift and hysteresis and must be calibrated annually to be accurate, yet most weather station temp sensors are NEVER calibrated after they have been installed. drift is where the recorder temp increases steadily or decreases steadily, even when the real temp is static and is a fundamental characteristic of all electronic devices.

Drift, is where a recording error gradually gets larger and larger over time- this is a quantum mechanics effect in the metal parts of the temperature sensor that cannot be compensated for typical drift of a -100c to+100c electronic thermometer is about 1c per year! and the sensor must be recalibrated annually to fix this error.

Hysteresis is a common problem as well- this is where increasing temperature has a different mechanical affect on the thermometer compared to decreasing temperature, so for example if the ambient temperature increases by 1.05c, the thermometer reads an increase on 1c, but when the ambient temperature drops by 1.05c, the same thermometer records a drop of 1.1c. (this is a VERY common problem in metrology)

Here is a typical food temperature sensor behaviour compared to a calibrated thermometer without even considering sensor drift: Thermometer Calibration depending on the measured temperature in this high accuracy gauge, the offset is from -.8 to +1c

But on top of these issues, the people who make these thermometers and weather stations state clearly the accuracy of their instruments, yet scientists ignore them! a -20c to +50c mercury thermometer packaging will state the accuracy of the instrument is +/-0.75c for example, yet frequently this information is not incorporated into statistical calculations used in climatology.

Finally we get to the infamous conversion of Degrees Fahrenheit to Degrees Centigrade. Until the 1960′s almost all global temperatures were measured in Fahrenheit. Nowadays all the proper scientists use Centigrade. So, all old data is routinely converted to Centigrade. take the original temperature, minus 32 times 5 divided by 9.
C= ((F-32) x 5)/9

example- original reading from 1950 data file is 60F. This data was eyeballed by the local weatherman and written into his tallybook. 50 years later a scientist takes this figure and converts it to centigrade:

60-32 =28
28×5=140
140/9= 15.55555556

This is usually (incorrectly) rounded to two decimal places =: 15.55c without any explanation as to why this level of resolution has been selected.

The correct mathematical method of handling this issue of resolution is to look at the original resolution of the recorded data. Typically old Fahrenheit data was recorded in increments of 2 degrees F, eg 60, 62, 64, 66, 68,70. very rarely on old data sheets do you see 61, 63 etc (although 65 is slightly more common)

If the original resolution was 2 degrees F, the resolution used for the same data converted to Centigrade should be 1.1c.

Therefore mathematically :
60F=16C
61F17C
62F=17C
etc

In conclusion, when interpreting historical environmental temperature records one must account for errors of accuracy built into the thermometer and errors of resolution built into the instrument as well as errors of observation and recording of the temperature.

In a high quality glass environmental thermometer manufactured in 1960, the accuracy would be +/- 1.4F. (2% of range)

The resolution of an astute and dedicated observer would be around +/-1F.
Therefore the total error margin of all observed weather station temperatures would be a minimum of +/-2.5F, or +/-1.30c…

========================================
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November 18, 2014 9:24pm
mikenmild

Johnboy’s no oil painting himself. Only the sheep really give him any attention these days.
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November 18, 2014 9:24pm
big bruv

“Griff, who took the temperatures before the Maori arrived and established that data base ?”

Gaia.
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November 18, 2014 9:24pm
Steve (North Shore)

How many of your sheep have names JB?
How many Rachael the 1st, Rachael 2nd?
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November 18, 2014 9:25pm
Kea

Another indication the the earths climate is cooling is the decrease in severe weather events. The cooler the global climate, the less energy there is to power storms.

Note I am referring to the actual events and not the frequency of media reports. One thing is a constant certainty, the more something is reported the rarer it is. Common events are not news.

Don’t take that electric blanket of the bed yet folks and stock up on coal for the fire. You might need it and Griffs solar panels could barely make you a cup of tepid organic, gmo free, gluten free, fair trade, vegan tea. 🙂
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November 18, 2014 9:29pm
All_on_Red

Florida hasn’t seen a Hurricane for over ten years. So much for extreme weather
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November 18, 2014 9:30pm
cricko

For fucks sake.

This never ending bickering over Global Warming (now called Climate Change) that seems to
be hijacked each evening after 8 pm on GD goes around and around untill it …….

Obsessive compulsives like say, Griff AOR etc.

Give us all a break babe FFS
STFU for just one night.

Just one fricken night.
Is that too much to ask ?

PLEASE.
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November 18, 2014 9:30pm
Johnboy

I believe they boiled the scrotum feathers of Kea’s for two days and then stretched them between two stones and by measuring the hang of the lower stone could predict the temperature to within 0.001 degrees Kea.

The Waitangi Tribunal is yet to give their learned verdict on what sort of computer the Murri used to record the data.

You can rest assured it will be far more accurate that any of that honky shit computer Bill Gates has came up with! 🙂
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November 18, 2014 9:31pm
Griff

yes all in red denial of facts is such a stupid idiotic position to take
dumb is not even knowing what you are talking about
four different published temperature series all independent all agree
we also have proxy measurements that confirm the trend
do you have a source for your rubbish or is it some nutwhack blog ?

kea we measure ice cores coral growth tree rings lake sediments stalagmites etc to get an estimation of prior temperatures.
we also have things like tree range insect range and other biometric indicators ice extent snow lines and glacial extent they all agree it is the warmest since human civilization started .
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November 18, 2014 9:34pm
mikenmild

Pakistan’s morning at the cricket. Can our tail wag to a decent score?
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November 18, 2014 9:35pm
Johnboy

I bet it’s also the warmest since the last ice-age too Griff? 🙂
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November 18, 2014 9:37pm
All_on_Red

What ever Griff.
The public don’t believe it anymore. There is no CATASTROPHIC warming happening.
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November 18, 2014 9:39pm
Kea

~~bereal~~ cricko, you sound stressed mate. Have a drink and relax.

If we did not act like such wankers, what would you have to comment on ? 😉
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November 18, 2014 9:39pm
Johnboy

We all know of course that the last ice-age was caused by anthroprogenic cooling from not mining coal and learning how to build an oil rig in time! 🙂
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November 18, 2014 9:40pm
Johnboy

Fuckin cavemen. Never learned how to build bloody Holden HSV’s till they became Australians! 🙂
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November 18, 2014 9:42pm
waikatogirl

JB, sorry missed your offer last night! With my electric blanket and my husband it would have got far too warm with ewe too 😉
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November 18, 2014 9:42pm
Griff

http://www.popsci.com/article/science/extreme-rainfall-new-normal-and-were-not-ready-it
This is weather common to tropical regions of the world, not temperate Michigan. But it’s in line with the National Climate Assessment, which found that over the past six decades incidents of extreme precipitation have increased across the continental U.S. due to human-propelled climate change. Rising temperatures increase the evaporation of water into vapor, and warmer air can take on greater amounts of water vapor than cooler. When all that vapor finally condenses into rain (or snow), there’s more of it to dump onto the communities below.

This new normal of extreme precipitation is hitting Northeastern states the hardest, followed by the upper Midwest, as this map from Climate Central shows:

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/apr/30/climate-change-extreme-rainfall-england-flooding
Climate change caused by humans has made the likelihood of extreme rainfall similar to that seen in England this winter significantly higher, according to analysis seen by the Guardian.

Rainfall events that would previously have occurred only once in a century are now likely to be witnessed once every eighty years in the south of England, the Oxford University work shows.

That will mean far more frequent severe floods for residents of the crowded region, with what were once extremely rare events now happening much more often than the infrastructure of the region is equipped for. The research shows an increase in the rate of such events of about 20 to 25%, which significantly alters the number of homes likely to be vulnerable to flooding.

http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/change/index.shtml#tabs=Tracker&tracker=trend-maps&tQ%5Bmap%5D=rain&tQ%5Barea%5D=aus&tQ%5Bseason%5D=0112&tQ%5Bperiod%5D=1970
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November 18, 2014 9:43pm
cricko

See’ Griff’ at 9.34

How fricken sad.
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November 18, 2014 9:43pm
Kea

Johnboy, they can adjust the models to remove inconvenient temperatures. It is amazing what they can do with computers now days.

Some of the science fiction they produce at the University of East Anglia is amazingly creative, if somewhat far fetched. Though surprisingly they cant get their email security right 😆
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November 18, 2014 9:44pm
EAD

Grief, get some help man.

I suppose this is another sign of global warming as all 50 American states freeze tonight?
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-11-17/polar-vortex-20-arrives-all-50-states-will-freeze-tonight
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November 18, 2014 9:45pm
All_on_Red

Oh great, now we have a weather report from around the world.
Pointless and proves nothing
And it’s from BOM who are in the gun for being caught fiddling data.hahahahaha.
You couldn’t make this shit up, oh wait- they probably did.
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November 18, 2014 9:46pm
Johnboy

Flossie could have amused your hubby waikatogirl while I taught you in’s and out’s of crutching! 🙂
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November 18, 2014 9:46pm
Griff

All_on_Red (1,622 comments) says:
November 18th, 2014 at 9:39 pm

What ever Griff.
The public don’t believe it anymore. There is no CATASTROPHIC warming happening.

Define catastrophic all in red
Is catastrophic the war in Syria?
Was ex cyclone sandy catastrophic?
is the drought in California catastrophic?

The leaders at the g20 summit defiantly believed matey
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November 18, 2014 9:47pm
Kea

“Rainfall events that would previously have occurred only once in a century are now likely to be witnessed once every eighty years in the south of England, the Oxford University work shows.

That will mean far more frequent severe floods for residents of the crowded region”

——————————————————————————————————————–

By “far more frequent” you mean once in longer than the average life time ?

As opposed to …. once in longer than the average lifetime !
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November 18, 2014 9:48pm
All_on_Red

EAD
Blame it on the Koch brothers
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November 18, 2014 9:49pm
Kea

Was ex cyclone sandy catastrophic?
is the drought in California catastrophic?

WEATHER IS NOT CLIMATE ❗
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November 18, 2014 9:50pm
All_on_Red

Warming Griff, warming. Not wars…
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November 18, 2014 9:51pm
Johnboy

The Pom’s haven’t won at world cup hockey since it’s conception Kea.

The hockey stick is Pommie science’s way of leveling the playing field since the world found out they can’t really engineer anything that works properly for very long.

The Mini was the best they ever did and it took the bloody Germans to make it go properly! 🙂
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November 18, 2014 9:53pm
All_on_Red

“The leaders at the g20 summit defiantly believed matey”

Only Obama. You know that clause they inserted. Well..
It’s been used before. Some defiance.
In fact, the communique said:

“ We reaffirm our commitment to rationalise and phase out inefficient fossil fuel subsidies that encourage wasteful consumption, recognising the need to support the poor.

So in fact the G20 only wants wasteful consumption stopped,

The 2013 St. Petersburg communique read as follows:

“94. We reaffirm our commitment to rationalise and phase out inefficient fossil fuel subsidies that encourage wasteful consumption over the medium term while being conscious of necessity to provide targeted support for the poorest.

Sounds like a cut and paste by someone

The 2012 Los Cabos, Mexico communique states:

“74. We welcome the progress report on fossil fuel subsidies, and we reaffirm our commitment to rationalize and phase out inefficient fossil fuel subsides that encourage wasteful consumption over the medium term while providing targeted support for the poorest”

The 2011 Cannes communique:

“57. We reaffirm our commitment to rationalise and phase out over the medium term inefficient fossil fuel subsidies that encourage wasteful consumption, while providing targeted support for the poorest.”

The 2010 Seoul communique:

“58. We reaffirm our commitment to rationalize and phase out over the medium term inefficient fossil fuel subsidies that encourage wasteful consumption, with timing on national circumstances, while providing targeted support for the poorest.”
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November 18, 2014 9:56pm
waikatogirl

Oh!! Is that like a Brazilian for ewe’s? 😉

As for climate change, I find the weather changes almost daily ;). How are your sheep finding it JB? Sounds like you might need to delay shearing for a few weeks?
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November 18, 2014 9:57pm
mikenmild

In breaking news, Nana Mouskouri to tour NZ. Cripes, she must be nearly the same age as Johnboy.
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November 18, 2014 9:58pm
Griff

War as a catastrophic result of destabilized climate .
http://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/abs/10.1175/WCAS-D-13-00059.1

The devastating civil war that began in Syria in March 2011 is the result of complex interrelated factors. The focus of the conflict is regime change, but the triggers include a broad set of religious and sociopolitical factors, the erosion of the economic health of the country, a wave of political reform sweeping over the Middle East and North Africa (MENA) and Levant region, and challenges associated with climate variability and change and the availability and use of freshwater. As described here, water and climatic conditions have played a direct role in the deterioration of Syria’s economic conditions

http://news.yahoo.com/climate-change-immediate-risk-pentagon-says-132532129.html

The U.S. Department of Defense released a new report this week that says climate change poses an “immediate risk to national security.” The so-called road map is designed to help the military navigate and prepare for increasing global temperatures, changing rain patterns and rising sea levels.

Climate change is a “threat multiplier” that could intensify challenges such as global instability, hunger, poverty and conflict, U.S. Secretary of Defense Chuck Hagel said Monday (Oct. 13). Hagel presented the road map during aspeech at the 11th Conference of the Defense Ministers of the Americas, which is being held in Peru.

War is a result of climate change already.
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November 18, 2014 9:59pm
All_on_Red

And Rolls Royce. And Bentley. And now Aston Martin.
Heck even the Indians own Land Rover now
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November 18, 2014 9:59pm
All_on_Red

Wars are started by CO2?
Just for you.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=t4ZGKI8vpcg
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November 18, 2014 10:01pm
Johnboy

Not that it’s any of your bloody business waikatogirl but my sheep find it all right as long as I take my Viagra every morning! 🙂

She doesn’t get a Greek pension though milkey. They’re broke. Unlike godzone under the wise governance of John and Bill! 🙂
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November 18, 2014 10:04pm
Griff

All_on_Red
As you have already been given the content of the official leaders communique. and still haven’t got your head out of your arse all in red I must come to the conclusion that you are
a stupid
b incapable of reading or comprehending English
c easily confused by reality due to not being particularly familiar with the state

https://www.g20.org/sites/default/files/g20_resources/library/brisbane_g20_leaders_summit_communique.pdf
18.
Improving energy efficiency is a cost
–
effective
way to help address the rising demands of sustainable
growth and development, as well as energy access and security. It reduces costs for businesses and households.
We have agreed an Action Plan for Voluntary Collaboration on Energy Efficiency, including new work on the
efficiency and emissions performance of vehicles, particularly heavy duty vehicles; networked devices;
buildings; industrial processes; and electricity generation; as well as work on financing for energy efficiency.
We reaffirm our commitment to rationalise and phase out inefficient fossil fuel subsidies that encourage
wasteful consumption, recognising the need to support the poor.
19.
We support strong and effective action to address climate change. Consistent with the United Nations
Framework Convention on Climate Change (UNFCCC) and its agreed outcomes, our actions will support
sustainable development, economic growth, and certainty for business and investment. We will work together
to adopt successfully a protocol, another legal instrument or an agreed outcome with legal force under the
UNFCCC that is applicable to all parties at the 21stConference of the Parties (COP21) in Paris in 2015.
We encourage parties that are ready to communicate their intended nationally determined contribution
s well in advance of COP21 (by the first quarter of 2015 for those parties ready to do so).
We reaffirm our support for mobilising finance for adaptation and mitigation,such as the Green Climate Fund
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November 18, 2014 10:09pm
All_on_Red

Blah blah blah. All words about intentions. So what. They said a lot of things.
Insults starting now I see Griff.
Careful.this gave you your first strike
Griff (8,019 comments) says:
October 7th, 2014 at 9:18 pm
I have already been reported many times jb even been moderated off by the report comment junkies.
The idea is to get as close to the rule as possible without stepping over .
The best bit is our previous convictions for evil deeds are no longer.
I feel all clean and tingly at the thought

[DPF: Admitting your aim is to troll is a good way to get kicked off. This is a warning]
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November 18, 2014 10:14pm
Johnboy

You should have signed the above…. “Public Watchdog for saving the Planet” Griff! 🙂
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November 18, 2014 10:16pm
Rachael Membery

Johnboy (16,910 comments) says:

November 18th, 2014 at 9:19 pm

Accommodating!!! Speaking of intelligence. Temper, temper one should never be disappointed when you have got the reaction you wanted then, should you, and I know which part of you that I think is blue, if you have any left.
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November 18, 2014 10:17pm
mikenmild

You are wasting your breath Griff. Some people just do not believe the evidence. It’s a psychological thing of some sort as the implications of climate change are too vast to comprehend rationally. Denial is an acceptable emotional response – for children at least.

People such as your Red friend sincerely believe that there is a vast global conspiracy involving thousands of scientists who are in it for personal gain or a lust for socialist control over every right thinking person. They will never be persuaded by facts.
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November 18, 2014 10:18pm
All_on_Red

Most intelligent people understand that the detail is everything and that it’s important to look past the sound bite.
You really are such a lightweight Mikey .
And no I don’t believe in a global conspiracy. You want to believe I do because you can’t face the facts, the detail reveals like the margin of errors in land based measurements.
Edit, heck you wrote more than two sentences. Are you ok?
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November 18, 2014 10:21pm
mikenmild

You are not wrong Red, and the detail confirms the IPCC assessments. Calling me names won’t help either.
It’s great that you don’t believe in a conspiracy, just that the overwhelming majority of climate scientists have got it all completely wrong but you, through your penetrating analysis, have got it right,
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November 18, 2014 10:24pm
Griff

All_on_Red
Your denial is pathetic

You again prove you can not even read matey. It wasn’t a strike it was a warning. it was actually for the clown video posted just before
JB will understand that

G8
Climate Change

Climate change remains a key global challenge which, if not controlled, would have dramatic consequences not only on the environment but also on economic prosperity. G8 Ministers recognised climate change as a contributing factor to increased economic and security risks globally. The G8 agreed to consider means to better respond to this challenge and its associated risks, recalling that international climate policy and sustainable economic development are mutually reinforcing. Officials from interested G8 countries will meet to consider the potential consequences of climate change and associated environmental and resource stresses as a contributing factor to increased security risks globally, and report to Foreign Ministers.

Ministers recognised the ambitious measures already undertaken to reduce greenhouse gases, noting that action needs to continue and intensify as a matter of urgency. Ministers remain committed to long term efforts with a view to limiting effectively the increase in global average temperature below 2 degrees Celsius above pre-industrial levels, consistent with science. The G8 remain fully committed to the UNFCCC process; to achieving, by 2015, a new climate change agreement, applicable to all Parties, which will come into effect and be implemented from 2020; to increase mitigation ambition in the pre-2020 timeframe, including through international cooperative initiatives such as the Climate and Clean Air Coalition; and to the developed countries’ goal of mobilising jointly USD 100bn per year by 2020, from a wide variety of public and private sources, in the context of meaningful mitigation actions and transparency on implementation. Ministers stressed the importance of transparency in the UNFCCC process. Measurement, reporting and verification will play a key role with respect to mitigation, adaptation and international climate finance flows in order to measure progress towards the achievement of our goals.

More on climate change and war
http://www.global-politics.co.uk/issue5/Johnston/
The environmental consequences of climate change are now firmly on the political and public agenda. The security consequences are not. Little attention has been given to the possibility of increased conflict due to resources scarcity and migration. Is conflict the real threat from climate change?

In April 2007, 55 delegations to the UN met at the Security Council to discuss the security implications of climate change. Led by the then UK Foreign Secretary, Margaret Beckett, states shared their concerns about the security implications of climate change. UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon talked of scarce resources, fragile ecosystems and severe strains placed on the coping mechanisms of groups and individuals, potentially leading to “a breakdown of established codes of conduct, and even outright conflict”. 1

A decline in water supplies for drinking and irrigation, a decline in agricultural productivity as a result of changes in rainfall, temperature and pest patterns, and large economic and human losses attributable to extreme weather events will all take their toll on the global system as a whole.

Some western governments are concerned that these conditions will create an unstable world and may lead to a subsequent rise in terrorist activity. What is more likely, I argue, is a potential rise in conflict in the most environmentally and politically vulnerable states. International Alert, a peace-building organisation, has identified 61 countries they perceive as being at risk from the ‘double-headed’ risk of climate change and conflict. 2
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November 18, 2014 10:27pm
All_on_Red

Ah, so you accept what the IPCC says in AR 5.
Good. Somehow I don’t really think you have read it.
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November 18, 2014 10:27pm
mikenmild

Somehow I think you might have read it but that you think it shows something that is not really there. As I have said before, there is no point debating the reality of climate change. All that matters are the means of mitigation and adaptation.
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November 18, 2014 10:30pm
All_on_Red

Agricultural production is up according to the world bank.CO2 is a plant food, ( am I right or wrong Mikey)
Must go- nice chat. I’ll leave “besties” griff and Mikey to cuddle up.
What a team
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November 18, 2014 10:32pm
Griff

And no I don’t believe in a global conspiracy. You want to believe I do because you can’t face the facts, the detail reveals like the margin of errors in land based measurements.

😆
basic misunderstanding of the force of numbers
one reading is plus or minus .5
a thousand readings are not
The error averages out over many readings
it is not the accuracy of the individual thermometers that counts it is the overall trend from thousands
That is the reason why they express the anomaly not the actual temperature.

And you must believe in a global conspiracy as you deny every major scientific body’s conclusion as well as the pentagon the world bank the un the g20 the g8 nasa uk met niwa etc etc etc.
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November 18, 2014 10:36pm
cha

Must go- nice chat. I’ll leave “besties” griff and Mikey to cuddle up.

“Flounce” and he’s gone.
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November 18, 2014 10:37pm
All_on_Red

I’ve read it extensively but there you go presuming what my world view is.
It’s quite interesting how they rate certain aspects of our climate are changing.
It seems to be a bit different than what the politicians tell us, or you.
Still glad to here your view on mitigation and adaption.
I AGREE!
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November 18, 2014 10:38pm
All_on_Red

Griff
Averaging out increases the error
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November 18, 2014 10:40pm
Griff

You havent read it all in red you have read distortions on denial blogs
else you wouldn’t claim the hockey stick is not in it
when it is even more defined
you also wouldn’t claim that sensitivity is below 1
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November 18, 2014 10:43pm
All_on_Red

Denial blogs?
I don’t link to blogs like WUWT. I’ve never claimed TCS is below 1 (Equilibrium climate sensitivity is likely in the range 1.5°C to 4.5°C (high confidence), extremely unlikely less than 1°C (high confidence), and very unlikely greater than 6°C (medium confidence)

so stop telling lies-again
This from the man who has SKS on his name.
Wow.
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November 18, 2014 10:48pm
Griff

All_on_Red (1,634 comments) says:
November 18th, 2014 at 10:40 pm

Griff
Averaging out increases the error

😆
nope it doesn’t
give a source all in red .
come on expose where you think climate science science is sourced from.
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November 18, 2014 10:48pm
All_on_Red

See this Mikey
Equilibrium climate sensitivity is likely in the range 1.5°C to 4.5°C (high confidence), extremely unlikely less than 1°C (high confidence), and very unlikely greater than 6°C (medium confidence)

It’s from AR 5
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November 18, 2014 10:49pm
All_on_Red

Climate science science ?
Stutterers R us?
Just above you link to “Global Politics”
Now there’s a scientific institution for you.
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November 18, 2014 10:49pm
All_on_Red

It’s astonishing you really don’t see the hypocrisy of what you expect from others compared to what you do.
Anyway , enough time wasted on you
Flounce!
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November 18, 2014 10:55pm
Griff

😆
also the pentagon
The g20
and the g8
the old pick one post out of many and ignore the rest game

And it’s from BOM who are in the gun for being caught fiddling data.hahahahaha.

prove it with a link

All_on_Red (1,637 comments) says:
November 18th, 2014 at 9:56 pm

Only Obama. You know that clause they inserted. Well..
It’s been used before. Some defiance.
In fact, the communique said:

“ We reaffirm our commitment to rationalise and phase out inefficient fossil fuel subsidies that encourage wasteful consumption, recognising the need to support the poor.

caught out again lying about the g20
didn’t even include the agreed contents on climate change
discuss

Wars are started by CO2?

that what the pentagon say as well as a peer reviewed paper
discuss

or just run of at the mouth with some more rubbish all in red
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November 18, 2014 11:03pm

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