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October 2, 2014 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 2 October 2014

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Manolo

The Ebola-effect: http://www.cnbc.com/id/102049289
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October 2, 2014 8:01am
ross411

TV3, FirstLine, Patrick Gower:

He dismissed Cunliffe’s wife’s twitter snafu. Said she had few followers, and that it was hardly a serious attempt by Cunliffe to attack his opponents. Was sad that people were intending to use someone’s partner, and that Cosgrove had used it, and made it out to be a devious plan. Then tore into Hipkins, Mallard and Cosgrove as hit men, who were willing to do whatever it took, in service of Robertson. Said Cunliffe still had a better support in the caucus.

When he put the twitter thing in perspective as no big deal, at first I thought it was a relaxed new non-tabloid Gower. Then he tore into Robertson, via Cosgrove, Hipkins and Mallard. Is he pro-Cunliffe? Or is he just being fair given what has happened?
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October 2, 2014 8:03am
Yvette

“No it sums up Andrea Vance very well. She’s unidimensional and unbalanced. Grant’s been feeding her for years.” – Karen Cunliffe, as TarnBabe67
_____

Seriously, the reason Dirty Politics didn’t hurt Key and didn’t hurt me is that people damn well know that the media are stooges to certain politicians. And it doesn’t take long to figure out who is feeding whom the dirt.
Vance is on Robertson’s team. Which means nothing at all, because once Robertson gets rinsed, she’ll have someone else take his place. It’s the way it goes. Politicians need to leak. Journalists are happy to be leaked to. – Cameron Slater
_____

Confirmation that Hager’s book premise : that only National could possibly be involved in Dirty Politics, is a nasty little one-sided misrepresentation of so-called investigative journalism.
The book is of no real public worth and Hager should be prosecuted for criminal gain from stolen personal and private information.
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October 2, 2014 8:04am
Manolo

Stating the bloody obvious: http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2014/09/30/Secret-Service-Director-It-s-Difficult-To-See-At-Night
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October 2, 2014 8:09am
Pete George

Gower re-tweeted this:

@miriyananz
I have to say I like Karen Price more for leaping to the defence of her family/husband. Obviously a silly thing to do, but understandable.

Similar from Brian Edwards in Shock! Horror! Wife defends husband!!!!, saying Price is his kind of woman.

I disagree.

Both Price and Cunliffe are adamant Cunliffe knew nothing about it. This happened while Cunliffe was at holiday at home.

Secret attacks on one’s husband’s colleagues kept secret from one’s husband is Not my kind of woman.
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October 2, 2014 8:10am
thedavincimode

… and in further breaking news, cunners has announced that he isn’t into dirty politics (take note Goof, fishman and you other scabs) and described his leadership style as reasonably “statesman-like”. No doubt for the benefit of those who hadn’t realised this and were under the impression that other descriptions were more reflective of his style.
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October 2, 2014 8:10am
Keeping Stock

@ Ross411 – Patrick Gower being impartial and objective would be about as probable as Hannibal Lecher converting to a vegan lifestyle 😉
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October 2, 2014 8:10am
Tarquin North

I hate to admit it, but the cartoon in this mornings Herald is hilarious and very accurate.
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October 2, 2014 8:11am
Rodger Tocker

Tarnbabe ?The deluded Narcissism is strong in that household.
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October 2, 2014 8:11am
IGM

Yvette: Why in hell are taxpayers still funding protection for this lying leftie leech Hager? He should be in the protection of the mongrels that printed his book of lies, innuendo, deception and crap.
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October 2, 2014 8:12am
stigie

The Labour trainwreck continues, meanwhile National gets down to business to run the country.
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October 2, 2014 8:15am
Nukuleka

Sad to see over on WO that Slater has now descended to personal attacks about the Cunliffes’ physical appearance. When folk start belittling politicians because of physical shortcomings then you really have to start questioning whether or not they are unconfident about the larger and more significant issues of character and policy. There’s no doubt that when I see commentators on The Standard slagging off Key because of a receding hairline I immediately conclude that this is their last line of attack. They’ve tried to nail him on every important aspect of his character- and spectacularly failed- and so, like children, they resort to the final trite and meaningless insult they can muster from their tiny wee brain. A different matter in cartoons, of course where physical representation and exaggeration is par for the course.
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October 2, 2014 8:20am
Yoza

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Yvette (2,782 comments) says:
October 2nd, 2014 at 8:04 am

Confirmation that Hager’s book premise : that only National could possibly be involved in Dirty Politics, is a nasty little one-sided misrepresentation of so-called investigative journalism.

The book does not contain or suggest any such premise.
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October 2, 2014 8:23am
IGM

What does Patrick Smellie smoke? He reckons Parker is honest and nice. Parker lied to his business partner, ruining his business, leaving it in tatters, along with his capital. He lied to Parliament regarding taxation discrepancies, and took off with his stroke-ridden friend’s wife . . . is this the behaviour of a nice person, maybe it is for a Labour one.
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October 2, 2014 8:26am
flipper

The very best thing about La Cunliffe’s ex twitter account was that it destroyed the reputation of Fairfax’s Vance as an ethical reporter.
Vance and Robertson were seemingly in sync over the draft Kitteridge report leak.
Could Robertson be the source of the Kitteridge report leak to Vance attributed to Dunne?
Thanks Karen.
🙂

En passant, I doubt that Vance will now find it easy to secure sources. Oh dear. What a pity. Never mind.
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October 2, 2014 8:26am
Pete George

Nukuleka – I agree. Slater seems to have learnt nothing from “dirty politics”. His personal attack approach is a bad look for the right and it is and will continue to be used against National and Key by association.
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October 2, 2014 8:26am
Yvette

IGM – [Hager] should be in the protection of the mongrels that printed his book of lies, innuendo, deception and crap.

I would respectfully suggest you could have used the phase “one-sided”.
Some of the crap, deception, innuendo and lies may be true, but it is all one-sided.
That is THE lie.

So, perhaps Hager could be charged with Electoral fraud as well as criminal gain from stolen personal and private electronic document.

[ And where is the other Electoral fraudist – Dotcom with his fake “Warners” email? ]
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October 2, 2014 8:29am
oldpark

A tale of two NZ female Lawyers.David Cunliffes wifes fan club kicked in last night, and this morning.First we had the woman Toni Street, on Seven Sharp, giving a shout out to Ms Price,even playing a song for her “Stand by your man”.Today it was Susan Wood on Newstalk ZB, same verbal support claptrap.The other Female Lawyer Judith Collins,under massive verbal attacks inside parliament and outside parliament,by Grant” whats a party vote” Robertson,and the other guy David” sorry for being a man” Cunliffe. They verbally bullied Judith to the point of ad nauseam, for a period of up to two months,on wild allegations,only because her husband was a director of a milk export company.The leffty clothcapped Journalist union infested MSM, were just as culpable.Where were Susan Wood ,and Toni Street , blindly ,flying a flag for the wife of David Cunliffe.After all Judith was also “standing by her man”.She was doing nothing illegal,yet Ms Price was character assassinating, in an anonymous manner, Clayton Cosgrove,Trevor Mallard ,and Andrew Vance.Talk about selective morality,Susan Wood, and Toni Street, should make sure their brain is engaged, before they open their mouths to speak, regarding sneaky back door actions of David Cunliffes wife,and condoning it.
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October 2, 2014 8:31am
Bovver

Fortunately we live in a free country PG so Mr Slater can blog what he wants, no doubt there is a memo doing the rounds amongst the Nat’s advising them not to have any direct contact with Whaleoil.
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October 2, 2014 8:34am
Manolo

The joys of multiculturalism: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2776343/My-heart-torn-Mother-British-teenager-feared-fled-Syria-jihadi-bride-makes-emotional-plea-come-home.html
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October 2, 2014 8:35am
Tempist

Is it true David Cunliffe’s new slogan for the leadership primary is “Vote Positive…or else!”?
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October 2, 2014 8:37am
Lindsay Addie

Emmerson over at the NZ Herald visualises the seaworthiness of the Labour boat:
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11335166

🙂
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October 2, 2014 8:40am
waikatogirl

Was listening to Shaun Plunket during the run-up to the election when a staunch leftie phoned. Shaun shot his argument down in flames, to which the caller’s response was,

“So what! Key’s got a big nose!”

To all those people who have thinning hair – not the whole answer, but eat protein throughout the day. Your hair is the last body part to get nutrients, eat healthy. (tip for the day 🙂 )
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October 2, 2014 8:46am
Nookin

“Parker lied to his business partner, ruining his business, leaving it in tatters, along with his capital. He lied to Parliament regarding taxation discrepancies”

Evidence? Got a link to any reports on these matters?
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October 2, 2014 8:46am
James Stephenson

Secret attacks on one’s husband’s colleagues kept secret from one’s husband

More fodder for Tui’s advertising boys in there, I reckon.

Was Cunliffe still in possession of his Man Card? If he was, it should be handed over immediately.
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October 2, 2014 8:49am
flipper

Bovver….
No. No memo.
At least not to me, or to the Electorate Executive.
But I did hear a rumour that Cam Slater is now being considered for a KB because he deprived poor CminusT of oxygen during the campaign. How? By writing the fiction that resulted in hagerisms. 🙂
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October 2, 2014 8:52am
stephieboy

This will get kowtow,Manolo,EAD and Fletch etc clucking.

“While commentators and policymakers debate the wisdom of the Obama administration’s air war against the Islamic State (ISIS), professional conspiracy theorist and Rand Paul buddy Alex Jones is – shockingly – crying “false flag,” asserting that the U.S. government plans to unleash ISIS militants in the U.S. as part of a nefarious plot to “overthrow what’s left of Western civilization” and, while we’re at it, to implement gun control. ”

http://www.salon.com/2014/09/30/alex_jones_obama_will_unleash_isis_terrorists_on_u_s_so_he_can_confiscate_our_guns/

Isn’t rather disquieting Republican Presidential aspirant Rand Paul is buddy ,buddies with the Prince of Paranoia. ?
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October 2, 2014 8:52am
Manolo

The mocking of Silent T continues unabated:
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/bay-of-plenty-times/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503346&objectid=11334923
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October 2, 2014 8:54am
kowtow

Cluck, cluck ,cluck, cluuuuuuuuck ah fuck.
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October 2, 2014 8:54am
Manolo

Mr Cunliffe’s political future was decided on election night, yet it seems that for all of the following week he was the only person in New Zealand not to realise it.

And from election night onwards, every move he made, every time he opened his mouth, he gave more and more proof of his absolute unsuitability for being a member of Parliament, let alone a political party leader.

His decision, in his resignation announcement, that he will stand again for the leadership simply provides final confirmation of that.
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October 2, 2014 8:55am
hj

Grant’s been feeding her for years.
….
“Labour leader David Cunliffe has taken his hardest line yet against immigrants, blaming them for rising house prices.

It follows a 3 News-Reid Research poll which shows almost two-thirds of voters say immigration should be restricted.

“It would take 80 percent of our housing supply just to accommodate this year’s migrants – and National is doing nothing,” says Mr Cunliffe.

…
Immi-what? Hysteria over immigration falls flat
ANDREA VANCE
…
An Open Letter to David Cunliffe from [eminently electable] James Dann (of Multicultural Aotearoa).
http://publicaddress.net/speaker/an-open-letter-to-david-cunliffe/
That ~~proves~~ suggests it!
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October 2, 2014 8:57am
stephieboy

A response to the shrill hysteria against multiculturalism ,

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/carlos-alberto-torres/is-multiculturalism-dead_b_2641808.html

And some of the joys of white separatism

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_separatism

( one of the likely logical consequences and outcomes of anti multiculturalism )

,
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October 2, 2014 9:18am
Other_Andy

stephieboy says October 2nd, 2014 at 8:52 am

“Isn’t rather disquieting Republican Presidential aspirant Rand Paul is buddy ,buddies with the Prince of Paranoia?”

Says somebody who gets his ‘news’ from Salon and the Huff….
Why is that suddenly a problem?
Having weird, radical and downright loony buddies hasn’t kept you from backing Obama at every turn.
Rashid Khalidi, Jeremiah Wright, Louis Farrakhan, Al Sharpton, Michael Pfleger, James Meeks……..
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October 2, 2014 9:20am
Ross12

The news reporters on ZB are starting to write off the dairy farmers with the latest auction price drop saying their financial “sustainability” is at risk. They spoke of dairy farmers in general , not highly leveraged farmers.
But maybe a couple of quick phone calls could have stopped them making fools of themselves –I know the Manawatu are not worried at the moment as they are having bumper spring production so far and given they haven’t had as much rain as up north I assume the Waikato guys are doing OK as well.
It is about time the managers of these media outlets demanded some basics of journalism from their staff.
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October 2, 2014 9:22am
Yvette

A Nash / Kelvin Davis alternative to Cunliffe and Robertson [and perhaps Shearer, if he can get his fish in a row] was mooted, seemingly by Willie Jackson, on Radio Live yesterday afternoon, but unfortunately does not seem picked up elsewhere in the media.
Nash as Leader and Davis as Deputy could well be what Labour needs – and their inexperience should not be any greater detraction than the problems the alternatives present.
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October 2, 2014 9:22am
Lindsay Addie

The Worldviews blog at the Washington Post has written an article about explaining the crazy complexities of Middle Eastern politics:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2014/10/01/9-attempts-to-explain-the-crazy-complexity-of-the-middle-east/

There are nine different ways canvassed from various sources. Graphics are used extensively.

Some of these are really good including Egyptian blogger Big Pharoah’s ‘Complete Idiot’s Guide to Understanding the Middle East’.

My favourite is from The Slate blog where they use smilies to show whether or not the relationship between countries is friendly, complex or are an enemy. The Middle East Friendship Chart:
http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_world_/2014/07/17/the_middle_east_friendship_chart.html

DISCLAIMER: I’m not trying to start a flame war based on religion with this post. 😉
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October 2, 2014 9:23am
oldpark

I see the perennial loan sharks,money hungry, ANZ Bank have put up their usuries rates again.Wonder why when parliament attacked so called other” loan sharks” with punitive legislation,they exempted banks and their massive high interest rates on credit cards.Even if they are secured,they still charge twenty plus mumble interest rates.Talk about legalised theft.
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October 2, 2014 9:36am
hj

stephieboy (2,796 comments) says:
October 2nd, 2014 at 9:18 am

A response to the shrill hysteria against multiculturalism ,
….
You are flogging a dead horse, which is the idea that society functions better in an artificial rather than it’s natural state.

“We are currently in the midst of the largest wave of migration ever seen worldwide and global cities today are more diverse than ever before. Diversity, the heart of multiculturalism, defines the world economy and social fabric of cities around the globe, and most certainly characterizes the populations of the United States as well as European nations and will for generations to come. ”
…
Can also be seen as diffusion form poor and over populated to wealthier with space.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPjzfGChGlE
Does it benefit the US Paul Krugman (Nobel Laureate) thinks not (NY Times blog).

Immigration is an intensely painful topic for a liberal like myself, because it places basic principles in conflict.

Oxytocin

Results show that oxytocin creates intergroup bias because oxytocin motivates in-group favoritism and, to a lesser extent, out-group derogation. These findings call into question the view of oxytocin as an indiscriminate “love drug” or “cuddle chemical” and suggest that oxytocin has a role in the emergence of intergroup conflict and violence.
To survive and prosper, individuals need groups whose members contribute information and resources. Because contributing resources and information makes oneself vulnerable to exploitation by others, group members need to know who to trust or to distrust, who can be expected to also contribute to the group and to reciprocate cooperation, and who may abuse in-group generosity and free-ride on others (1). A key mechanism facilitating such in-group cooperation is ethnocentrism, the tendency to view one’s own group as centrally important and as superior to other groups. Ethnocentrism manifests itself in positive valuation of (members of) one’s in-group. Such in-group favoritism signals loyalty and positive commitment to the group, thus rendering the ethnocentric individual a reliable and trustworthy partner. Ethnocentrism may also show up in negative valuation of (members of) out-groups. Such out-group derogation signals to in-group members who should be excluded from in-group resources and exchanges, and reduces the probability that in-group resources are inadvertently extended to out-groups (1–6).

If in-group favoritism and out-group derogation have adaptive value and sustain in-group functioning, coordination, and cooperation, it follows that (i) throughout evolution those individuals who displayed in-group favoritism and out-group derogation and who detected such tendencies in others were more likely to spread than individuals lacking these capacities (5–8) and (ii) the human brain may have evolved to sustain ethnocentrism through yet-unknown neurobiological systems

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3029708/
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October 2, 2014 9:39am
hj

What has white supremacy got to do with it stephieboy? Too much Spoonley?

DEFINING IDENTITY AND CREATING CITIZENS :
THE MEDIA AND IMMIGRANTS IN NEW ZEALAND

The literature concerning minorities and the media, both indigenous and ethnic
communities, is considerable (eg Spoonley and Hirsh, 1990; Cottle, 2000; Twitchin,
1988). But there is a much smaller literature which deals specifically with immigrants
and the media (Barker, 1999; Wood and King, 2001), especially in a New Zealand
context. However, there is some interesting material, from New Zealand and elsewhere,
which examines the values of the media, both as particular occupational groups (eg
journalists, producers, editors), and as media organisations (see Mahtani, 2001; Abel,
1997; McGregor and Comrie, 2002; Barker, 1999; Jakubowicz, 1994).
Van Dijk (1993) has been influential, both in terms of the use of a particular methodology
(content analysis) and the advocacy of a particular approach to the media’s role in
influencing intergroup relations and imagery. In his use of content analysis, he has been
concerned with both surface representation and underlying meanings (Mahtani,
2001:109). For him, the media have constructed and reproduced racism (Van Dijk, 1993:
279):

Discourse and the denial of racism
Teun A. van Dijk
UNIVERSITY OF AMSTERDAM

The guiding idea behind this research is that ethnic and racial prejudices are prominently acquired and shared within the white dominant group through everyday conversation and institutional text and talk.
….
It is further assumed in this research programme that talk and text about
minorities, immigrants, refugees or, more generally, about people of col- our or Third World peoples and nations, also have broader societal, political and cultural functions. Besides positive self-presentation and negative other-presentation, such discourse signals group membership, white in group allegiances and, more generally, the various conditions for the reproduction of the white group and their dominance in virtually all social, political and cultural domains.
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October 2, 2014 9:49am
hj

@ Stephieboy
Here’s an example of what Spoonley complains of

Correct:

One thing he is clear about is that the demographic changes set to occur in Christchurch could transform the city infamous for its white supremacist National Front movement. While Christchurch does have small ethnic enclaves, hosting lantern festivals for Chinese New Year and Diwali festivals for the Indian community, the scale of the anticipated migrant influx is unparalleled in its history.

http://www.massey.ac.nz/massey/about-massey/news/article.cfm?mnarticle_uuid=86EB3C7F-B375-B8DF-A111-53B3788C75E5

Incorrect:

Bold young men drove sheep on to the vast grazing runs to found pastoral empires and land owning dynasties. Out of the wealth from the squatters’ wool clips, and from wheat when the tussock was ploughed, grew a city of scholarship, grace and dignity”

Professor Kenneth Cumberland Landmarks
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October 2, 2014 9:56am
Simon

http://thestandard.org.nz/cosgrove-the-whining-mp/

Twlight zone

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zi6wNGwd84g
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October 2, 2014 10:08am
iMP

A critique of David’s “Can the Nats Get a 4th Term”? NZF & the Conservatives.

http://conzervative.wordpress.com/2014/10/02/4th-term-for-nats-nzf-conservatives/
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October 2, 2014 10:13am
waikatogirl

Yvette, 9.22
Promotion of Nash as leader was also happening on Duncan Garner on Live. I think it is all media beat-up, trying to create news again…
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October 2, 2014 10:27am
Gulag1917

US contemporary foreign policy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolfowitz_Doctrine
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October 2, 2014 10:33am
flipper

Something to upset the left wing nutters in the EPA, Min for Environ, NIWA (troughers), policy wonks, the red melons, and idiots like Griff (et al)…… Take the time to listen to Jones and Monckton via the link to 2GB, Sydney:
on 2GB.
*** “Monckton in Australia

“Christopher Monckton is quietly venturing around Australia once again, this time at a more relaxed pace.
Hear Alan Jones interview Lord Monckton recently on 2GB.
As Alan Jones points out, Monckton has been thoroughly demonized, but as the evidence accrues, it’s clear he’s been on the right side the whole time.

http://www.2gb.com/audioplayer/62856#.VCcwhU1xn3g
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October 2, 2014 10:34am
stephieboy

Hj, thus we seem to agree that diversity is welcome as per the evolution and development of Christchurch’s ethnic diversity and multicultural make up.Similar to Aucklands more accelerated one and I’d have to say no ones complaining except perhaps by a small pocketful of the usual racists and bigots .

My neighbouring Mt Roskill and even my own Mt Eden is testimony how diversity is quietly working and ticking over.what could be wrong with that.I think that the problem might be with some of the more strident and militant demands of certain militant Muslims wanting to replicate the customs andcpractices of their country of origin or Sharia Islam Its this small group that raises the ire and fear of some, But unfortunately other Muslims who want to get on with their lives and cooperatte and enjoy the benefits of living here get tarred with the same brush by apprarntly the more virulent anti multiculturalists like kowtow and Manolo .

This link provides a more sane and sober perspective ,

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2010/mar/17/multiculturalism-diversity-political-policy

Obama’s friends .? I’ll bet they don’t think like Alex Jones that Obama is the Anti Christ ( devoted a DVD etc on this
idiotic claims ) or as some Conpiracy theorists have ludicrously claimed a part of the an Illuminati breeding program.

Paul Krugman .? We’ll like all of us he’s entitled to an opinion and raises some Intersting points but I think he would agree with me on most of my points It all comes down to definition of meanings.But a reminder ,I do part company with those who belive that this issue should be solved by e.g deporting all our Muslims or other ethnic groups like Somalians .

interesting that Forbes described Krugman as the “socialist laureate “despite the fact he is a strong advocate of free trade
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October 2, 2014 10:34am
Griff

Christopher Monckton
😆
18 July 2011

Letter to Viscount Monckton of Brenchley from David Beamish, the Clerk of the Parliaments

Letter to Viscount Monckton of Brenchley from the Clerk of the Parliaments (PDF PDF 90 KB)Opens in a new window

Dear Lord Monckton

My predecessor, Sir Michael Pownall, wrote to you on 21 July 2010, and again on 30 July 2010, asking that you cease claiming to be a Member of the House of Lords, either directly or by implication. It has been drawn to my attention that you continue to make such claims.

In particular, I have listened to your recent interview with Mr Adam Spencer on Australian radio. In response to the direct question, whether or not you were a Member of the House of Lords, you said “Yes, but without the right to sit or vote”. You later repeated, “I am a Member of the House”.

I must repeat my predecessor’s statement that you are not and have never been a Member of the House of Lords. Your assertion that you are a Member, but without the right to sit or vote, is a contradiction in terms. No-one denies that you are, by virtue of your letters Patent, a Peer. That is an entirely separate issue to membership of the House. This is borne out by the recent judgment in Baron Mereworth v Ministry of Justice (Crown Office) where Mr Justice Lewison stated:

“In my judgment, the reference [in the House of Lords Act 1999] to ‘a member of the House of Lords’ is simply a reference to the right to sit and vote in that House … In a nutshell, membership of the House of Lords means the right to sit and vote in that House. It does not mean entitlement to the dignity of a peerage.”

I must therefore again ask that you desist from claiming to be a Member of the House of Lords, either directly or by implication, and also that you desist from claiming to be a Member “without the right to sit or vote”.

I am publishing this letter on the parliamentary website so that anybody who wishes to check whether you are a Member of the House of Lords can view this official confirmation that you are not.

David Beamish
Clerk of the Parliaments

15 July 2011
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October 2, 2014 10:41am
dime

oldpark – yep!

not hard to see how susan wood rolls nowadays. yesterday morning i heard “national really should try and work with the gweens” HAHAHA why the hell would they’
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October 2, 2014 10:47am
tom hunter

I’d have to say no ones complaining except perhaps by a small pocketful of the usual racists and bigots.
…
get tarred with the same brush by apprarntly the more virulent anti multiculturalists like kowtow and Manolo …

… and Angela Merkel:

“This [multicultural] approach has failed, utterly failed,” Merkel told the meeting in Potsdam, west of Berlin, yesterday.

… and ye old lefty Greg Sheriden in Australia: How I lost faith in multiculturalism:

Coming to these sombre conclusions marks a crisis of faith for me. All my life I have been, intellectually and as a matter of personal experience, strongly supportive of a big and completely racially non-discriminatory immigration program. This grew out of my convictions, my world view, and also my personal experience.

It should be noted that the focus here is not all non-Western cultures – just one. But keep calling the likes of Merkel and Sheridan racists and bigots. It’s a winning strategy for the left wing.
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October 2, 2014 10:51am
KevinH

@Pete George
As far as Cam Slater is concerned what you see is what you get, no mystery there he is straight up about what he does and it didn’t take Hager’s book to work that out. If you want someone to mince a loudmouth then Cam is your man. The fact is Cam’s tipline will continue to ring, there is always a fresh scandal lurking.
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October 2, 2014 10:51am
Lucia Maria

Gulag1917,

US contemporary foreign policy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolfowitz_Doctrine

You posted the same thing yesterday, except it was from a much dodgier source that had links to articles such as:

Proof Of US Plan To Kill 90% Of World Population With Airborne Ebola?

Putin Threatens To Bust U.S. “9/11 Inside Job’ Conspiracy With Facts And Figures

Are you some sort of anti-American propagandist? Is the name “Gulag” just to divert attention from your true purpose?
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October 2, 2014 10:56am
Rufus

“over on WO that Slater has now descended to personal attacks about the Cunliffes’ physical appearance”.

Like Slater is one to comment on physical appearance – the guy’s a walking case of diabetes-in-the-making.

Slater making fun of someone else’s physique is like Slater commenting on marital infidelity.

Classy.
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October 2, 2014 10:56am
stephieboy

Flipper,

Monckton Myths a One stop for Monckton misinformation,

http://www.skepticalscience.com/Monckton-Myths-one-stop-shop-Monckton-misinformation.html

Moncton Watch The conversation ,

http://theconversation.com/au/topics/monckton-watch

And Moncton The Birther,

http://dailycaller.com/2012/03/22/lord-monckton-im-no-birther-but-obama-birth-certificate-plainly-a-forgery/

Next Creation science.?
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October 2, 2014 10:57am
Rufus

KevinH – “As far as Cam Slater is concerned what you see is what you get,” bull-dust. The guy’s as devious and unscrupulous as those he rails against.

I hope he stays at WO, and really hope KB will continue to aim higher.
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October 2, 2014 10:59am
stephieboy

Tom Hunter , do you seriously belive that Angela Mrekal wants the expulsion from Germany it’s e,g Turkish immigrant workers West Germany welcomed in the 1970s and 80s .?
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October 2, 2014 11:02am
Chthoniid

I wonder if Penny will ever make a reappearance…

It’s like a void has appeared in the GD threads
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October 2, 2014 11:08am
Yvette

• Mrs Cunliffe (aka Karen Price, aka TarnBabe67) outs Andrea Vance as Robertson’s media poodle
• ROBERTSON / VANCE HIT #2
– Whaleoil headlines

Despite Labour and Hager’s claim that Dirty Politics is a National-only proclivity, is it now becoming clear that Labour indeed keeps its hands clean and “positive” by having their own media hit people?

Il ya un trou dans le seau, chère Lisa – there’s a hole in the fucking bucket, dear Lisa 🙂
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October 2, 2014 11:15am
Gulag1917

Lucia Maria
Wanted to get a more acceptable source, hence the latest link. Not on any anti-American mission.
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October 2, 2014 11:19am
Lucia Maria

Gulag,

Wanted to get a more acceptable source, hence the latest link. Not on any anti-American mission.

So … why post it at all? I personally see nothing wrong with considering Russia a threat. Do you? Russia certainly considers the US her No. 1 Enemy, followed by Great Britain and Poland. (see Russians Have More Friends Abroad than They Think — But in Different Places than Before 1991) Russia has nukes, Russia in invading a neighbouring country while pretending not to, Russia is threatening her other neighbours, etc, etc. Is Russia not a threat??
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October 2, 2014 11:31am
Gulag1917

Lucia Maria
You are bit naive about US geopolitics. Has not the destabilisation of the Middle East taught you anything? There are numerous cases of US interference in the internal affairs of democratic nations.
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October 2, 2014 11:39am
Kea

Lucy, how many countries has the US invaded ?

Why do you think Soviet era USSR land divisions (Like annexing the Crimea) should be enforced by the USA ? Eg: Why not re-establish the entire Soviet empire, (which includes the Ukraine), Eastern Europe, Central Asia and the Caucasus region ?
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October 2, 2014 11:40am
Kea

“Russia has nukes”

So does the USA, the only country to use them and they did so against civilians when the war was all but over.

I have never been more against the moral and intellectual disease of religion, than I have after exposure to the religious right on KB. I have to remind myself that this is fanatical element when speaking with other Christian friends and clergy.
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October 2, 2014 11:50am
Lucia Maria

Gulag,

You are bit naive about US geopolitics. Has not the destabilisation of the Middle East taught you anything? There are numerous cases of US interference in the internal affairs of democratic nations.

It’s not me that is naive. Being of Polish background, I am very aware of the failings of America. At least they are not afraid of confronting their own past, unlike Russia. (See Bush condemns Allies’ division of Europe at Yalta)

You need to read this book: Disinformation: Former Spy Chief Reveals Secret Strategies for Undermining Freedom, Attacking Religion, and Promoting Terrorism

Like the solution to a giant jigsaw puzzle lacking one crucial piece, Disinformation authoritatively provides the missing dimension that makes the chaos of the modern world finally understandable. By its very nature, a disinformation campaign can work only if the seemingly independent Western press accepts intentionally fabricated lies and presents them to the public as truth.

Thus, Pacepa and Rychlak also document how the U.S. “mainstream media’s” enduring sympathy for all things liberal-left has made it vulnerable to–indeed, the prime carrier of–civilization-transforming campaigns of lying, defamation and historical revisionism that turn reality on its head.

In Disinformation, you’ll discover:How destroying the reputation of good leaders has been developed into a high art and science.How Pope Pius XII –a generation ago the world’s most high-profile Christian leader, who personally saved countless Jews from Hitler’s Holocaust–was transformed, through the magic of disinformation, into a Nazi sympathizer. How Christianity and Judaism have been targeted for constant denigration and defamation through an ongoing campaign of disinformation.

How the Soviet bloc planted 4,000 agents of influence in the Islamic world, armed with hundreds of thousands of copies of the most infamous anti-Semitic book in history, to fan the flames of ancient Arab resentments against the U.S. and Israel and sow the seeds of anti-Semitism that would later bloom in the form of violence and terror toward Jews and Christians.

When it comes down to it, think about who benefits from the destabilisation of the Middle East the most.
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October 2, 2014 12:11pm
Kea

Violent communist activists attack police and media, while throwing molotov cocktails and rioting in France. They also set booby-traps for workers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZIJZMS5BUQ
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October 2, 2014 12:21pm
Kea

Who Lucy supports.

“As long as I live I will fight against Jews, Communists and Russian scum” [sic]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWkfpGCAAuw
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October 2, 2014 12:32pm
dime

Kea – “So does the USA, the only country to use them and they did so against civilians when the war was all but over.”

What a stupid, stupid comment
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October 2, 2014 12:42pm
tom hunter

What a stupid, stupid comment

FIGHT, FIGHT!!!!!
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October 2, 2014 12:46pm
Kea

“What a stupid, stupid comment”

dime, but not so stupid you can find anything to refute it and instead have to resort to shooting the messenger.
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October 2, 2014 12:50pm
dime

Kea – ya got me. the war was done. the japs had no intention of fighting on their homeland. they were just going to sit down an give up.

all the battles leading up to it suggest that too. the japs were easy beats.

id debate with you if you werent a troll that will just go on and on and on for days no matter how wrong you are. its boring.

good day sir
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October 2, 2014 12:54pm
Kea

“the japs had no intention of fighting on their homeland”

Who was intending to occupy their “homeland” ? I was never aware of any such intention by the Allies. I thought they simply wanted Japan to stop fighting and withdraw to their homeland.

Chanting Trollllllllllllll like a spastic does not obscure your lack of knowledge or make a coherent argument. Nor does mouthing propaganda.

Sorry bout that 🙂
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October 2, 2014 1:00pm
Gulag1917

Lucia
I do understand that Eastern Europe is the meat in the sandwich and you do have my sympathy regarding that.
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October 2, 2014 1:03pm
dime

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Downfall

dont read it Kea, its all made up.

pretty sure this is made up to:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J_Force
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October 2, 2014 1:03pm
Viking2

ANZ cuts its forecast Fonterra 2014/15 milk price payout by 40c to $4.85, puts call for next OCR hike in March under review
Westpac have gone to $4.80

Wow that’s gunna put the shits up the worlds best Finance Minister.
And the rest of us as well I’d suggest.

ANZ economists have cut their forecast Fonterra 2014/15 milk price payout by 40 cents to $4.85/kg of milk solids after dairy prices fell 7.3% in last night’s GlobalDairyTrade auction. At the same time they say their expectation for the next Official Cash Rate hike to come in March next year is now under review.

The price falls take the GlobalDairyTrade Index back to levels last seen in May 2012 and equal to what was paid in the 2004-2006 period.

“As a result, we have today reduced our forecast for the 2014/15 payout to $4.85/kg (from $5.25), assuming a modest bounce back in global prices. This sits well below the average cost of production for farmers and will have a significant impact on discretionary spending,” ANZ said.

“We’d also add that the dairy sector has a huge amount of exposure to floating (interest) rates of around 70%. A lower dairy price also has significant implications for the wider economy and monetary policy. Moves in the OCR look a long way off, with our call for the next move to arrive in March now under review. Expect the NZ dollar to remain under pressure.”

Westpac economists have also cut their forecast payout, in their case by 50c to $4.80/kg.

http://www.interest.co.nz/rural-news/72254/anz-cuts-its-forecast-fonterra-201415-milk-price-payout-40c-puts-call-next-ocr-hike
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October 2, 2014 1:04pm
Kea

dime, which USA state is Japan ?

The problem was not them defending their homeland. The problem was Japan attacking other peoples homelands. You could have learnt that reading a war comic !
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October 2, 2014 1:15pm
Lucia Maria

Something else Kea won’t read: WAS THE ATOMIC BOMBING OF JAPAN IN 1945 JUSTIFIABLE? (The Pacific War Historical Society)

(Answer: Yes) The war was far from done prior to the bombing, and there was a great fear of the fanatical Japanese fighting to the last man as they had done before.
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October 2, 2014 1:16pm
dime

“dime, which USA state is Japan ?

The problem was not them defending their homeland. The problem was Japan attacking other peoples homelands. You could have learnt that reading a war comic !”

ah, classic kea. just random words.

you said: “So does the USA, the only country to use them and they did so against civilians when the war was all but over.”

Lets break that down:

“So does the USA, the only country to use them and they did so against civilians” – correct

“when the war was all but over.” – incorrect. the germans were done. the italians were done. The japs had been beaten back but as shown in the pacific theatre, they fight til the bitter end.

Its actually insulting to the japs to say the war was all but over.

Why did i fall into the Kea trap? arghhh
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October 2, 2014 1:25pm
Kea

The REAL Reason America Used Nuclear Weapons Against Japan (It Was Not To End the War Or Save Lives)
Posted on October 14, 2012 by WashingtonsBlog

The U.S. Strategic Bombing Survey group, assigned by President Truman to study the air attacks on Japan, produced a report in July of 1946 that concluded (52-56):

Based on a detailed investigation of all the facts and supported by the testimony of the surviving Japanese leaders involved, it is the Survey’s opinion that certainly prior to 31 December 1945 and in all probability prior to 1 November 1945, Japan would have surrendered even if the atomic bombs had not been dropped, even if Russia had not entered the war, and even if no invasion had been planned or contemplated.

General (and later president) Dwight Eisenhower – then Supreme Commander of all Allied Forces, and the officer who created most of America’s WWII military plans for Europe and Japan – said:

The Japanese were ready to surrender and it wasn’t necessary to hit them with that awful thing.

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2012/10/the-real-reason-america-used-nuclear-weapons-against-japan-to-contain-russian-ambitions.html
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October 2, 2014 1:27pm
Kea

dime, My claim was that the USA was the only country to use nukes and did so against civilian targets. That is fact.

You then went on about the Japanese giving up their “homeland” ! So I attempted to educate you on that matter. (Note: They are still there dime. Should the US nuke them again… based on your reasoning ?)

Looks like the people who ordered the attack agree with me. Sorry to upset you by revealing the propaganda you were raised with fails when it comes into contact with reality.

Have a cup of tea and forget about those pesky facts. It has worked well for you this far.
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October 2, 2014 1:34pm
dime

“You then went on about the Japanese giving up their “homeland” ! So I attempted to educate you on that matter. (Note: They are still there dime. Should the US nuke them again… based on your reasoning ?)”

What the? how does that even make sense? somehow youve gone from “the war was almost done” to asking if i think the US should nuke japan because japanese people are still there!?

“Sorry to upset you by revealing the propaganda you were raised with fails”

I’m scared to think what a history book looks like in whatever shit hole you were spawned in.
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October 2, 2014 1:38pm
Shawn Herles

The Japanese Empire was intent on enslaving most of the pacific, and in that attempt committed some of histories most horrific war crimes, including the rape of Nanking.

I doubt that it’s victims would think the Judgment brought against the nation by atomic fire was anything other than just.
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October 2, 2014 1:40pm
Kea

Lucy I knew you would be a big fan of that horrific low point in humanities history. I knew for two well established reasons:

1. Japanese are not Christians.

2. Japanese are not European.

I have to wonder at you Lucy. Some Christians skip the nasty stuff in the bible and focus on the brotherhood of mankind and peace. They oppose war and conflict. They respect other faiths, at least those with the same god.

But not you. You go for the old testament stuff. I do not think you would have liked Jesus very much.
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October 2, 2014 1:40pm
Kea

dime, it was not in a “history book” for this guy:

General (and later president) Dwight Eisenhower – then Supreme Commander of all Allied Forces, and the officer who created most of America’s WWII military plans for Europe and Japan – said:

The Japanese were ready to surrender and it wasn’t necessary to hit them with that awful thing.
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October 2, 2014 1:44pm
tom hunter

how does that even make sense?

From the POV of rational argument it does not.

From the POV of starting yet another harebrained fight in order to demonstrate one’s moral and ethical purity it makes perfect sense.
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October 2, 2014 1:45pm
Shawn Herles

Kea, you really should stop listening to the voices in your head. Your comic book level take on what other people really believe is laughable.
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October 2, 2014 1:45pm
Kea

My choices:

1. Listen to dime

2. Listen to Lucy

3. Listen to Shawn

4. Listen to Dwight Eisenhower Supreme Commander of all Allied Forces, and the officer who created most of America’s WWII military plans for Europe and Japan

What would a reasonable person acting with good intent do ?
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October 2, 2014 1:47pm
Kea

“how does that even make sense?”

dime, You claimed they were nuked because they would fight for their “homeland”.

I pointed out they are still occupying their homeland and asked if you thought they should be nuked some more ?

I pointed out that I thought the problem was them in OTHER PEOPLES homeland, not their own. You said that was wrong and the goal was to occupy Japan.

Dwight Eisenhower Supreme Commander of all Allied Forces, and the officer who created most of America’s WWII military plans for Europe and Japan, thinks you are wrong. Respectfully I agree with him.
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October 2, 2014 1:52pm
Shawn Herles

Eisenhower’s opinion was, assuming it is being accurately reported (I did a search and mostly came u with either far left sites or conspiracy web sites that UT was fond of) disputed by other generals and military leaders.

The fact is we do not know for sure, and at the time it was impossible to know. The harsh reality is that a ground invasion would have resulted in vastly more Japanese civilians being killed than were killed by the bombs.
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October 2, 2014 1:54pm
kowtow

dime,old bean,”Why did i fall into the Kea trap? arghhh”

personally I ignore it,no response ,just let it troll away. All it wants is someone,anyone to stroke its feathers.
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October 2, 2014 1:58pm
Manolo

Some sub-Standardistas complain about the effeminate petty tyrant Lynn Prentice:

Lprent, lets not lose sight of the fact that that family membered named Cosgrove in their attack on him. I am not trying to defend Cosgrove, I am attakcing your argument because it is woefully one sided and selective. Where was your defense of Labour MPs when Cunliffe attacked them on Campbell Live? Why was that not crossing a line?
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October 2, 2014 2:00pm
Shawn Herles

Things are not happy in Camp Labour Manalo. Isn’t fun? ☺
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October 2, 2014 2:06pm
Griff

😆
Sucked into its madness .
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October 2, 2014 2:11pm
dime

“personally I ignore it,no response ,just let it troll away. All it wants is someone,anyone to stroke its feathers.”

yeah i usually do. opps.
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October 2, 2014 2:14pm
stephieboy

Kea, I would like the source of the alleged quote by Eisehnower where he is alleged to have stated that they Japan were ready to surrender and it wasn’t necessary to hit them with that thing .?

Please not a quote from another source that quotes another source please.It’ll have to be a
Primary source.

The Washington Blog is essentially about rhetoric , polemic and Propoganda .For example ttheir claim that US is covertly funding ISIL . The Jews as well too naturally.

The US funding and supporting ISIL then attacking and bombing them.Yeah makes perfect sense !

Russia does not whatsoever have its own eqivalent ultra nationalist. fascist nev nazi organizations and groups.?

Yes.?.?
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October 2, 2014 2:15pm
Kea

I accept your apology dime 🙂
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October 2, 2014 2:16pm
Lucia Maria

Gulag,

Lucia
I do understand that Eastern Europe is the meat in the sandwich and you do have my sympathy regarding that.

Could you please use your sympathy to read the book I recommended.
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October 2, 2014 2:17pm
Kea

stephieboy, sure. As soon as you provide your sources, you have quite a back-log now. I will of course return the favour by blandly stating they are bias or by attacking their views on another matter.

Are you seriously trying to defend the neo-nazi in Ukraine on the basis Russia has some too ?

Have you ever considered doing the right thing, instead of stupidly defending your prejudices in the face of over whelming evidence suggesting you are wrong ? You would feel better about yourself.
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October 2, 2014 2:27pm
Lucia Maria

Kea,

Lucy I knew you would be a big fan of that horrific low point in humanities history. I knew for two well established reasons:

1. Japanese are not Christians.

2. Japanese are not European.

I almost feel sorry for you.

The Catholic Holocaust of Nagasaki:

On August 9, 1945, God’s inscrutable providence allowed an atomic bomb named “Fat Man” to be dropped from a B-29 into the heavily populated city of Nagasaki. The epicenter of the blast was the Urakami district, the heart and soul of Catholicism in Japan since the sixteenth century.

ie, Nagasaki was the most heavily Catholic part of Japan. There was even a Catholic mission in the area, set up by the Polish Saint, Maximilian Kolbe in the 1930s.
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October 2, 2014 2:30pm
Yvette

Auckland has no recourse to do much about Len Brown when they have found just days after his Election that he is not the man he had presented himself as.

Likewise Labour has no mechanism to short-circuit an ego like Cunliffe’s, in that by standing down to trigger a leadership contest, then inserting himself again in that contest, Cunliffe is giving the country a whole six weeks of krap, which to date has been nasty, and by six weeks may destroy the party.

How long before a Labour grouping call for Cunliffe’s expulsion from the Party.
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October 2, 2014 2:32pm
Kea

Lucy, I note it was not dropped on the staunchly Catholic Nazis who started the war.

I know you do not think the Japanese were real Catholics because they are Asian. And not even mentioned in the bible.
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October 2, 2014 2:33pm
Gulag1917

Lucia
ok when I get the time.
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October 2, 2014 2:37pm

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