General Debate 24 October 2014

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hj

Wealthy Chinese knock on NZ’s door
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/10007139/Wealthy-Chinese-knock-on-NZs-door
Why China’s rich are leaving

Pollution, tainted food and education are causing many of the country’s wealthy to flee, survey finds.
Earlier this year, the best company at surveying the rich in China announced that more than 60% of the people it surveyed had already immigrated to another country, or were considering doing so.

http://fortune.com/2014/06/05/china-rich-immigration/

A Chinese leader [the Press] described Aotearoa/nz as “the last paradise”. This represents a “our opportunities to both get wealthier (which is all about what you can do with that money) and then ultimately the oppurtunities for Kiwis.” -Wiz Kid Key
http://www.tv3.co.nz/CAMPBELL-LIVE-Monday-September-22-2014/tabid/3692/articleID/103019/MCat/2908/Default.aspx

Let’s parse this silliness a little further. In the first place we have the typical misunderstanding of bureaucracies round the world that these wealthy immigrant programs actually create a net increase in new investment. They do not…
… Canada also stipulates that the applicants must “show they have business experience.” What an insult to existing Canadians.
The International Monetary Fund rates Canada as the tenth richest country in the world with a gross domestic product per capita of US$52,000. China, number 82, has a GDP per capita of US$7,000. Yet Canada must go to China for business experience?
And then you have the Canadian complaint that some of this mainland business experience is not really the sort that was expected.
“Dodge The Taxman” is a game that is played with much greater success and assiduity in China than it is in Canada and some of these mainland applicants bring their habits with them.
Canadians are thus sometimes surprised that people who are meant to have assets of least C$1.6 million when they apply for immigration do not appear to be nearly as well off when they fill in their tax forms.
Chinese entrepreneurial knavery meets Canadian government foolery. The two deserve each other, I say.

http://blogs.vancouversun.com/2014/10/17/hong-kong-press-scorns-canadas-backdoor-wealthy-immigrant-scheme/
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October 24, 2014 8:01am
jaba

good to see the Greens concentrating on things that matter to the Kiwi public .. I mean, who doesnt want to know how many times John Key talks to Cam Slater?
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October 24, 2014 8:04am
hj

Anger over rich Chinese blamed for Canada migration scheme’s axing

In a statement issued after Flaherty’s announcement last Tuesday, the Canadian government said over a 20-year career, an immigrant investor pays about C$200,000 less in income taxes than a “federal skilled worker” and almost C$100,000 less in taxes than one “live-in caregiver”.

“The current [Immigrant Investor Programme] provides limited economic benefit to Canada. Research shows that immigrant investors pay less in taxes than other economic immigrants, are less likely to stay in Canada over the medium to long term and often lack the skills, including official language proficiency, to integrate as well as other immigrants from the same countries,” the statement said.

Yiu said the government’s assessment of investor immigrants’ tax contributions was “nonsense”, adding that it was based on a “discredited” study by a think tank, the Fraser Institute.

http://www.scmp.com/news/world/article/1431991/anti-chinese-backlash-inspired-axing-canadas-investor-scheme-says-critic
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October 24, 2014 8:05am
Griff

When you are a kiwi evolution sucks
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October 24, 2014 8:05am
prosper

Massive rates increases on the way. (Orsman) Why do the rates need to go up just because the property values go up. I have come to the conclusion that the Auckland Mayor and councillors have no say, no control, no ability, no common sense and no humanity. The bureaucrats have control. Maybe we should do a Penny Bright.
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October 24, 2014 8:09am
Yvette

Cameron Slater –

The other day in parliament John Key stated that when he spoke to me it wasn’t in his capacity as Prime Minister.

This is interesting because one of the reasons he sacked Maurice Williamson was because of the fact that he was a minister and that you are ALWAYS a minister.
It didn’t matter to him then that Maurice Williamson wrote his letters or made his phone calls in his capacity as a local MP.
…
Perhaps Maurice Williamson should give Key a call, and ask for his job back, and use the Key Defence.

John Key shouldn’t have been so cute when he responded to Russel Norman, he should have replied just like John Howard did and said that as Prime Minister he could talk to whomever he damn well pleased.

Being cute has painted himself into a corner…and he used his own brush and his own paint.

Guess we will have to wait until next Tuesday for an answer. Will Winston quote Slater to attack Key and Cameron?
Maybe the paint will be dry by then 🙂
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October 24, 2014 8:13am
OneTrack

“Why do the rates need to go up just because the property values go up.”

Because socialist Len has expensive plans and a big spin doctor department to pay for. Not to forget the $1 million dollar state house with chandelier protest piece for Queens Wharf. Len, focussing on the important stuff since, forever.
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October 24, 2014 8:14am
Nukuleka

The worm has really turned over on WO where Slater has begun to demonstrate just how untrustworthy he is. He is foolish to start to turn against John Key, though I guess when your name begins to feature in Parliamentary questions it does affect your view of yourself. I do have sympathy for folk with depression and personality disorders but it pays not to allow yourself to get drawn into their own idiosyncratic and disturbed world. I recall a Herald article some years ago that profiled Slater as someone incapable of empathy. We have seen so many examples of that in his WO rantings, and it is a pity that people who should have known better allowed themselves to be drawn into his toxic web.
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October 24, 2014 8:18am
stephieboy

(Reuters) – A U.S. federal jury found three American former Blackwater guards guilty of manslaughter and weapons charges on Wednesday and a fourth of murder in connection with the 2007 killing of 14 unarmed Iraqis at a Baghdad traffic circle.

The decision closes an emotional chapter in a case that outraged Iraqis, inflamed anti-American sentiment across the globe and touched off debate over the role of private security contractors working for the U.S. government in war zones.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/10/22/us-blackwater-trial-idUSKCN0IB20L20141022

But do note this important observation,

“This verdict is a resounding affirmation of the commitment of the American people to the rule of law, even in times of war,” said Washington U.S. Attorney Ronald Machen, whose office prosecuted the case.

There were other similar events but thT may help explain why the present administation is unwilling to put “boots on the ground.”
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October 24, 2014 8:19am
James Stephenson

Why do the rates need to go up just because the property values go up.

Rates “need” to go up, because sticking your hand back into the ratepayers pocket is easier than trying to stop wasting the money you’ve already filched. Rising house prices are just the excuse for breaking your previous promises to ratepayers.

Please can someone put this whole shambles of a council in general, and Len “IAFC” Brown in particular, out of my misery.
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October 24, 2014 8:19am
Griff

Police take Hager to court over his sources
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11347582
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October 24, 2014 8:19am
Padriv Ustoev

About rates, they are like gangsters no? Just pay pay pay, and you get nothing.

Electricity cuts out – fuck you, pay me.
No wheelie bins in you part of the city – fuck you, pay me.
Need your grass verge cut – fuck you, pay me.
Takes 1 hour to cover 14k from your house to work by public transport – fuck you, pay me.
Train doesn’t and never will go into you part of town – fuck you, pay me.
Want to cut down trees or build a deck on your own property – fuck you, pay me.
Sewers and storm water doesn’t work properly in your part of town – fuck you, pay me.
Want to fill your car with petrol inside the city limits – fuck you, pay me.
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October 24, 2014 8:21am
oldpark

@Yvette 8.13am

When I read that inference,i thought I had ended up in the TVNZ, or Herald Websites.or even the dreaded TV3s Campbell Live.Couldnt help but think of the movie “SLEEPING WITH THE ENEMY”,or “THE ENEMY WITHIN.”or just what is going on with that outfit?.
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October 24, 2014 8:21am
Simon

“Why do the rates need to go up just because the property values go up.”

Because Comrade Len thinks that you live in one of the world’s most liveable cities is due to his efforts.

We must pay for the privilege of living in Len’s Auckland. We all owe Comrade Len because he makes life so wonderful.

Without Len all of Auckland would look like Mogadishu within six months.
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October 24, 2014 8:30am
waikatogirl

We have all heard the stories of rich applicants who have the required million or so in the bank account, or at least until they have secured residency, then poof, the money evaporates.

I also strongly believe that any migrant who arrives here is under threat of deportation back to where they came from if ANY criminal activity (including domestic assault) occurs in the first 10 years. We have had enough of criminal activity, and dodgy business practices from some of these migrants. 🙁
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October 24, 2014 8:36am
oldpark

@ NUKULEKA 8.18AM

Noticed he waited until his donation box was fully loaded,before he began his unprovoked assault on John Key.Better a dollar to some goat poo,his Donation Box will take a big hit in November.Still cant work out why he is biting the hands that are feeding him,with their donations,or is it handouts.Of course I don’t have to as,your excellent blog,is right on the button.
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October 24, 2014 8:38am
hj

As Houston enjoys staggering growth, can a city known for its lack of zoning and car-centric ways embrace a more pedestrian-friendly urbanism?

Growth, of course, is Houston’s raison d’etre. According to a recent TheWall Street Journal article, “Success and the City,” Houston has added jobs at a prodigious rate: 263,000 since 2008 (the New York metro area, by contrast, has added 100,000 during the same period). The article preaches the gospel of Houston: lack of formal zoning makes it easy to obtain building permits there and enables the city to be responsive to changing land-use demands.
A lot of things, many of them good, can happen in the absence of zoning. The laissez-faire philosophy enables a certain dynamism. Things can develop here—like the uncanny proliferation of tin-clad modernist houses in one Inner Loop neighborhood—that would never be permitted in a more precious city. Houston has tremendous energy and a copious amount of intellect. Industries like oil and aerospace have long attracted smart, ambitious people. The population is immensely diverse. Houston (though Dallas might argue otherwise) can be thought of as Los Angeles to Austin’s San Francisco. But is an interesting city the same as a good city?

Tinterow, a native Houstonian who spent much of his career at the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York, is—generally speaking—a Houston defender. He points out that even though Houston famously goes without zoning, that doesn’t mean there aren’t restrictions. “I’m always quick to add, the fact that we don’t have zoning doesn’t mean we don’t have planning,” says Tinterow, uttering a phrase that’s something of a mantra for Houston civic types. “It doesn’t mean that we don’t have deed restrictions, which are more powerful than zoning, in that nobody can change them.” The deed restrictions, he explains, “pass from owner to owner, specifying the setbacks, the volume, the massing, the height. And those pass on in perpetuity, as opposed to zoning, which can be changed by any city administration.”
As I listened to Tinterow, it occurred to me that what zoning is about, ideally, isn’t freezing streetscapes in “perpetuity,” but about managing change. Restrictions specifying setbacks, volume, massing, and height that can’t be changed suggest that Houston isn’t the city it’s reputed to be, the one that effortlessly responds to market demands. Instead, it may be a city that lacks the means to respond. For one thing, the market, even in sprawling Houston, is beginning to demand walkability.
Jay Blazek Crossley, policy analyst at Houston Tomorrow, an organization founded in 1998 to tackle quality of life issues, points out that the greater Houston metropolitan area is going to hit a population of 10 million by 2040. “A lot of people think growth is terrible,” he says. By contrast, he believes that “the next 4 million people are what is going to let us fix our city.” Interestingly, one of the problems Crossley sees is that the local ordinances are too inflexible. “Houston is the most restrictive place to build an urban style building in the nation,” Crossley contends. He cites “excessive parking requirements” and “huge” setback requirements. To get around them, developers have to apply to a planning commission for variances. And that process demands political skill and, perhaps, connections. “We’ve heard from developers who have tried to come into Houston,” says Crossley. “The national, big developers don’t build in Houston because they believe the system is rigged towards local developers, and it’s too weird and complex to get through.”
Another thing Crossley brings up is the Kinder Institute Houston Area Survey, a public opinion poll that has been conducted in Houston annually for 33 years. Transit, biking, and walking enthusiasts like Crossley insist that the survey shows public preference skewing their way. “At this point, for the last several years, a majority of people in Harris County would prefer to live in a smaller home where they could walk to things,” Crossley contends.

http://www.architectmagazine.com/urban-design/will-houstons-city-plan-transform-this-no-zoning-mecca_o.aspx?dfpzone=home
It looks like Houston is a model the Government uses for Aotearoa (and the government is planning population growth to “increase the wealth”)
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October 24, 2014 8:40am
wreck1080

@prosper “Massive rates increases on the way.”

The councils total rates income is only going up by 2.5% (if you believe len brown and that is a big IF). Valuation changes only determines the proportion of rates each property pays.

So, if one persons rates go up by more than 2.5% than anothers will decrease. I think the average house price increase in auckland was 29% so plenty of properties that increased less than that will in fact get rates decreases.
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October 24, 2014 8:51am
hj

Houston works (in a way) but it has a “dismal” environment [Glaeser] and relies heavily on oil. If you study evolution single cell > multicells.>an axis … then you have to get kidneys etc There is an analogy there, (although it falls down because cites aren’t individual organisms competing for resuorces, dying and giving birth) ultimately rail etc will be the most efficient means of getting people around (as in Tokyo etc)?
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October 24, 2014 8:52am
wreck1080

People of christchurch should be looking for blood.

After telling everyone that Tony Maryatt was not getting his unwarranted pay increase, the council have done a secret deal and given it to him anyway.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/10656337/Marryatt-takes-an-800-000-final-walk/
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October 24, 2014 8:56am
James Stephenson

unprovoked assault on John Key

This is Key’s last term as PM, the public haven’t tired of him yet, but it’s definitely starting to happen. Those more right-leaning National voters who were once prepared to be fobbed off with the “gently-gently don’t scare the horses” argument, are now starting to lose patience as they see the likelyhood of a three-term National government utterly failing to undo anything put in place by Clark’s administration. It’s clear that the aim of the next three years, as seen from the top of the Beehive, is to add some more stuff to the wall of Key’s Pool Room, ideally a fourth election win but with being the PM that changed the flag as backstop.

Whale is just the first and most obvious symptom of this dissatisfaction because he’s the natural outlet for the Right of the party and those, like Williamson and Collins who Key has knifed.
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October 24, 2014 9:00am
itstricky

Why do the rates need to go up just because the property values go up

Calculate your annual rate increase. Let’s call this X. Calculate your actual or potential profit if you were to sell your property today. Let’s call this Y.

Divide X by Y then multiply by 100.

Go to bed tonight repeating the phrase “well actually I’m doing pretty well and I should try less to be a grumpy old kodger who complains about how lollipops don’t cost thrupence anymore”
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October 24, 2014 9:02am
Andrei

It’s great to see the authorities in free world Nations taking their responsibilities of keeping us safe from dastardly criminals seriously
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October 24, 2014 9:14am
Manolo

Some enlightened Iranians: http://english.alarabiya.net/en/perspective/features/2014/10/22/In-Iraq-lavish-divorce-parties-on-the-rise.html
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October 24, 2014 9:18am
Manolo

Rod Oram, unabashed left-winger and number one fan of Helen Clark, goes on the attack:
I say to the Slaters, Grahams, Odgers, Farrars, Edes, Lusks, Williamses, Collinses and all their ilk, you are destroying some good people and good society.

https://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=10152381871826709
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October 24, 2014 9:25am
flipper

James Stephenson (2,179 comments) says:

October 24th, 2014 at 9:00 am

****

No. Too early to rush to judgement.

Whale is pissed because Key did not follow the Howard example and tell Norman et al to bugger off. I cannot say I blame him. In fact, when I watched the original TV coverage live, I was quite annoyed at the wussie approach.

Maurice Williamson and J Key have never got on. Key was being risk averse in the run up to September 20. He deserves a job, but given his time in the House, it will be his last term. But he has a strong base, and even Peter Goodfellow will be unable to engineer his demise if he chooses to stay. Send him to a High Commission, somewhere.

Collins – a boil that caused angst up and down the country. When attacking in Parliament she was effective; when transferring that approach to the folks who pay her salary, she was OTT, and became a boil that had to be lanced. Then there is the Feeney matter, now under inquiry. His performance should also be reviewed, particularly over SCG (note that Whitehead says the decision not to call him as a witness in SCF was made by the SFO -presumably because what he would say would not help their case – a matter that in my view requires much further investigation.).

So, yes, J Key has been a wuss. But he was obviously intent on avoiding the accusation that would have been levelled if he had used the Howard approach – arrogance.
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October 24, 2014 9:35am
wf

Years ago, businesses moved to Auckland “because that’s where the population is”. And Auckland gloated.
Look what they’ve got now – an increasingly vocal and dis-satisfied population which bought the Auckland koolaid and it isn’t as nice as they thought it would be. Eventually only those who are content to live in an increasingly shabby, over priced city will remain.
Watch the businesses (that don’t rely on low paid labour) leave the sinking ship. The ones that remain will be robotised or rely on new immigrants.
Sad. back in the 60’s Auckland was a good place to live (I was there 🙂 )
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October 24, 2014 9:37am
kowtow

andrei,from your link.

http://www.thelocal.fr/20141021/french-suicide-author-has-far-right-ties

Once again, speaking up for you own culture and the future of your own civilisation earns you the criminal epithet “racist”.

james stephenson

Williamson ,of the “right”. I would have thought that his disgraceful speech supporting the extreme left position on so called marrigae equality would forever consign him to the ranks of “progressive”.In other words right in name only.Collins likewise.
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October 24, 2014 9:40am
kowtow

Padriv Ustoev (69 comments) says:
October 24th, 2014 at 8:21 am
About rates, they are like gangsters no? Just pay pay pay, and you get nothing.

A bit like “home” then ,in the glorious nation of Gangsteristan?The only difference is no AK47’s along with the demands.Also not rape your goats and milk your wives.
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October 24, 2014 9:45am
Redbaiter

“The first effect of ideology in power is to mark out areas where discussion is closed and where it is rash for the ordinary man to venture”

Roger Scruton.
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October 24, 2014 9:47am
Longknives

Stay classy Harawira!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnOw1pZfQ0M
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October 24, 2014 9:47am
Redbaiter

“So, yes, J Key has been a wuss.”

Because he’s a Progressive and believes in nothing. If he had any self guiding philosophy he would have replied differently.

Like too many in National he is just a hopeless cultural Marxist with no idea what to defend against or how to defend against it even if he could identify it.

And that includes you Flip- leave National and join Labour. Being the party for Progressives, its where you and Key both belong.
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October 24, 2014 9:53am
Redbaiter

..and kowtow is correct about Williamson. He’s another cultural Marxist more suited to the Labour party. A person who can make a speech such as he did has no business in National.
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October 24, 2014 9:57am
James Stephenson

@kowtow – I said “the Right of the party and those like Williamson…” they’re separate entities with their own separate motivations for attacking Key the successors he’s grooming.

@flipper – you’re putting up arguements in support of Key’s actions, not against my contention that there are a growing number of people in National-leaning ranks that are falling out of love with Key.
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October 24, 2014 10:02am
Manolo

Actually, it is a disgrace for the National Party to count Maurice Williamson as a member.

The veteran trougher is far more suited to be a Labour apparatchik. The same (applied to the Greens) goes for Nick Smith.
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October 24, 2014 10:03am
wiseowl

Yup Manolo.
Williamson and Smith should have retired long ago.
Smith has turned into one of the most arrogant MP’s I remember.Once they have been there too long they forget what they are there for.
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October 24, 2014 10:22am
grumpy

Hi David,

While you are away writing your travel blog, a bunch of idiots have destroyed this one.

Best regards,

Grumpy
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October 24, 2014 10:32am
hj

“We woke up this morning in a country blessed by love, diversity and peace, and tomorrow we will do the same,” said Mr Mulcair, leader of the official opposition. Mr Trudeau referred to the gunman as a criminal and said that Canada was a nation of fairness, justice and the rule of law, and should not be intimidated into changing that.
http://www.economist.com/news/americas/21627692-attacks-soldiers-mainly-tranquil-land-stir-talk-global-action-against-terror-losing?fsrc=nlw

“IT WAS A COLD January morning in 2003 as I walked through ankle – deep icy snow into the Toronto Convention Centre. I was attending a conference of Muslims arranged by groups allied to the Saudi – based World Assembly of Muslim Youth – WAMY. The freezing temperature and frosty welcome I received at the hands of the young Islamists had not prepared me for the chilling lecture I was about to hear. The speaker, a Kuwaiti politician, said: “Western civilization is rotten from within and nearing collapse…it [the West] will continue to grow until an outside force hits it and you will be surprised at how quickly it falls.

“The crowd burst into applause. Just sixteen months beforehand, an “outside force” had hit the New York Twin Towers on 9/11, and here was Tareq Al Suwaidan, a member of the Muslim Brotherhood from Kuwait, rubbing salt into the wounds of the West. The audience of more than two thousand young Canadian Muslims, many of them associated with the Muslim Students Association (MSA), carefully segregated into male and female sections, listened in awe. Suwaidan used elaborate charts to draw projections about the impending collapse of the West. They lustily cheered the Kuwaiti Islamist as he predicted the doom of the very civilization these young men and women were living in.

“Why were these Muslim youth, (who were) born and educated in Canada, cheering the fall of the West? Did they not consider themselves to be part of the West? If they did, why would they be cheering its imminent collapse and who were they expecting to carry out the “outside force” attack? How could they, as citizens of a democratic Western country, allow a Kuwaiti politician to write the obituary of the West, but also cheer him on as he did so?””
http://www.immigrationwatchcanada.org/2014/10/08/ok-degrade-isis-iraq-degrade-canada/
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October 24, 2014 10:44am
hj

Green party of Canada
Elizabeth May said she believes the attacks this week was the attack of disturbed individuals and not a vast united network of terrorists.
http://globalnews.ca/video/1631202/green-party-leader-doesnt-believe-this-was-the-act-of-vast-network-of-terrorists
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October 24, 2014 10:49am
hj

“The Muslim population in Canada has increased very quickly. Unnecessary immigration from Muslim-dominated countries is the cause of that increase. In the period 2001 to 2011, Canada’s Muslim population went from 579,000 to more than 1 million. Unmonitored immigration from those countries is also the major cause of any increase in Canada’s ISIS-like supporters. In 2011, Toronto had the largest population of Muslims, at just over 424,900. Montréal had just over 221,000 and Vancouver about 73,200.”
http://www.immigrationwatchcanada.org/2014/10/08/ok-degrade-isis-iraq-degrade-canada/
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October 24, 2014 10:51am
hj

Vote Compass: Immigration and multiculturalism — the parties’ positions Canada
1) Speaking English or French should be a requirement for immigration to Canada
Green Party — Strongly disagree
2) How many new immigrants should Canada admit?
Green Party — Somewhat more
“The Green Party of Canada is troubled by the unfriendly immigration policies of the Harper government. “Canada’s multiculturalism is an essential part of our national identity. New Canadians are a source of incredible skills and potential for our country. Immigrants and refugees come to Canada in search of a safer, more fulfilling life for themselves and their families, and to be full participants in Canadian society. It is not fair to now place limits on family members joining immigrants. We should be supporting them in achieving their hopes and ambitions, not putting up roadblocks and splitting up families,” said Green Leader Elizabeth May.”
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/vote-compass-immigration-and-multiculturalism-the-parties-positions
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October 24, 2014 10:57am
wikiriwhis business

A Hispanic man delivers absentee ballots, and now conservatives want him dead

In the video — which was posted at Glenn Beck’s The Blaze under the headline, “Surveillance video apparently catches guy doing something at the ballot box that left Republican monitor stunned” — Ben Marine can be seen entering the lobby of the polling station in a Citizens for a Better Arizona (CBA) shirt and delivering absentee ballots he had collected.

Despite the outrage from conservative sites, Marine was not behaving illegally when he delivered the ballots to the polling station.

Commenters on the video’s YouTube are calling for Marine’s death. “This is a high crime, it is treason to this country and a betrayal of democracy,” one writes. “This should be a crime punishable by death.”

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/10/a-hispanic-man-delivers-absentee-ballots-and-now-conservatives-want-him-dead/
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October 24, 2014 11:04am
stephieboy

hj, thinking of organizing along with kowtow and Manolo etc an anti multicultural deport all our 50,00 Muslims hate rally.?

Wiki I think it would be wise to take most what Glen beck says with a bit of the proverbial grain of salt .

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/the-gop-war-on-voting-20110830
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October 24, 2014 11:44am
Don the Kiwi

stephieboy obsessed with hate.

Methinks he doth protest too much. Hate is stephi’s abiding obsession, and hates all those he falsely accuses of being hateful.

Don’t worry stephie, we all love you – really we do. 😉
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October 24, 2014 11:49am
stephieboy

Don the Kiwi,

iwi, Ok but you’ll just love this from Forbes ,

Obama Outperforms Reagan On Jobs, Growth And Investing

http://www.forbes.com/sites/adamhartung/2014/09/05/

Why aren’t the deficit fetishists exalting President Obama?

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/political-animal-a/2014_10/why_arent_the_deficit_fetishis052530.php

Time for some shared rejoicing , eh.! Or does even the big ears and coffee skin still disturb you.?
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October 24, 2014 11:59am
Manolo

Blame Fox News for this too: http://freebeacon.com/national-security/top-iranian-official-obama-is-the-weakest-of-u-s-presidents/

@Don the Kiwi: Don’t worry stephie, we all love you – really we do. Eff no! 🙂
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October 24, 2014 12:01pm
alloytoo

@Yvette @Nukuleka

Slater seems intent on jumping Whaleoil over the shark.

His obsession with Key is approaching the level of left wing echo chambers with a similar level of dissension tolerated (IE none).

He’s being ably chivied toward the shark by Pete who’s “Explanations” of Slater’s behavior constitute some of the most condescending drivel I have witnessed anywhere.

And hey, whatever happened to “Explaining is losing”?

Slater frequently likes to point out that politics isn’t tiddlywinks, well neither is blogging and successful blogs rely not just on the number of eyes, but also the number of commentators. They are also, in a manner of speaking, the product and the product is poorer for their absence.

Slater also likes to trade on his brutal honesty, well that trade only works if you’re willing to receive as much as you give.

If Slater and “Pete” are a little too fragile to take criticism, then there’s no reason to accept theirs, all they’ve effectively become are irritating pissants’ with loud voices, empty vessels making the most noise.
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October 24, 2014 12:18pm
Don the Kiwi

Stephieboy.
11.59 am.

“Or does even the big ears and coffee skin still disturb you.?”

Why should they? My wife has coffee coloured skin, being part Maori. 40% of my relatives have “coffe coloured skin” because they’re maori.

If the USA deficit is shrinking, that’s excellent news – but I doubt if it is through any management of the pres’s – its because private enterprise has by-passed many of the road blocks put in place by the Obama administration.
The real indicators of economic growth are – take home wages – fallen seriously over the past 5 years.
Unemployment figures have fallen because millions of working Americans have taken themselves off the list of those looking for jobs.
Check out the welfare numbers – more people on food stamps than during the great depression.
The USA debt has increased dramatically under this administration – now 17.5 trillion dollars, and growing by the day.

These are the real indicators – but the ones you quote do have some small relevence – its not all bad of the USA despite their president and his administration.
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October 24, 2014 12:21pm
wiseowl

Interesting comment hj about the greens in Canada.
This morning Goff suggested the Canadian terrorist was mentally deranged or disturbed person.

Must be the official left line?
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October 24, 2014 12:27pm
stephieboy

Don the kiwi, thus Forbes etc have got everything seriously wrong and you’ve got everything seriously right .?The job growth and other vital signs are just a mirage .Of course a different story if Mitt Romney in charge and the same circumstances

We’ll leave the ordinary US citizen to make the final judgment and not your anti Obama ranting and bombast

Right.?
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October 24, 2014 12:33pm
kowtow

wiseowl

It will not just be the left line. The vast majority of so called main stream politicians ,commentariat, media,academia,church leaders will take the line that “whatever the hell it is, it isn’t Islam”.

Anti terror laws,surveillance will be ramped up,but there will be no stop or even slowing of Muslim immigration.

The slow death of western civilisation through Muslim immigration and birth rates by the hands of our own ruling classes,irrespective of party.
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October 24, 2014 12:35pm
doggone7

wiseowl :… the Canadian terrorist was mentally deranged or disturbed person.

Is it true or likely to be the case? And is that more or less important than it being someone’s “line”?
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October 24, 2014 12:50pm
OneTrack

itstricky – “Go to bed tonight repeating the phrase “well actually I’m doing pretty well and I should try less to be a grumpy old kodger who complains about how lollipops don’t cost thrupence anymore””

Or go to bed wondering why there are so many socialist troughers on the Auckland City Council who think they should ream as many ratepayers as possible in order to pay for a million dollar state house with chandelier protest art piece on Queens Wharf.

I know, I know – shut-up OneTrack – you didn’t need that operation anyway. You’re only a peon and the “elite” know best.
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October 24, 2014 1:07pm
OneTrack

wreck – “The councils total rates income is only going up by 2.5% (if you believe len brown and that is a big IF). ”

No, I don’t. Who knows anybody whose rates have gone down?
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October 24, 2014 1:08pm
OneTrack

Manolo – “Rod Oram, unabashed left-winger and number one fan of Helen Clark, goes on the attack:
I say to the Slaters, Grahams, Odgers, Farrars, Edes, Lusks, Williamses, Collinses and all their ilk, you are destroying some good people and good society.”

Oram seems to think that freedom of speech only means the freedom to say things that he is happy with. I guess he is a left-winger then.

If the “good people” and “good society” can’t cope with a few questions about what they are doing on the public teat, maybe that’s more of an answer than about the value of what they are doing than anything else.
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October 24, 2014 1:17pm
doggone7

OneTrack: “…Oram seems to think that freedom of speech only means the freedom to say things that he is happy with. I guess he is a left-winger then. If the “good people” and “good society” can’t cope with a few questions about what they are doing on the public teat, maybe that’s more of an answer than about the value of what they are doing than anything else.”

Hello? Hager puts something out and was/is all of your absolutely fine logic applied to what he wrote and what has been said in support of some of his stuff?
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October 24, 2014 1:28pm
OneTrack

doggone7 – What?

If I follow what you are getting at, I don’t have a problem with Hagar questioning the government. I just didn’t like the idea that he thought using crime to get the information he published was completely “fair” ie the its ok when the left does it excuse. I also think it is stretching it to say (which is what he did) that only the evil National party would do such an evil thing.

Unfortunately, I am in the camp that fully expect that political parties, including the government, would pass on information to friendly journalists, and that includes bloggers. Now there may be an issue with what Collins did, but I can’t exactly tell because of all the raucous screeching from the hard-left, most of which I quickly discarded, because it’s what I think they all do. And, so what. I will make the Collins decision once I hear the results on the inquiry. Because I can’t rely on our lame MSM to give me the independent facts.

Getting back to Oram, he seems to thinks his friends and fellow travellers on the left should be free to trough away without any analysis of what they are doing and why. It’s all just a big bucket of money to them, and that evil Cameron Slator (I hear he eats babies) was asking mwean questions about what the work was, how much did it cost and what was the likely benefit anyway.

In Oram’s world, those questions must not be asked. Because they are “good people”. Hence, give them as much money as they like, no questions asked, and definitely no justification will be given of what they are actually doing and why.

Does that cover it?
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October 24, 2014 1:41pm
Ross12

How can the UK think of staying in the EU when this sort of thing happens ? It is absolute madness !!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/11184044/EU-makes-Britain-pay-for-recovery.html
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October 24, 2014 1:57pm
hj

stephieboy (3,074 comments) says:
October 24th, 2014 at 11:44 am

hj, thinking of organizing along with kowtow and Manolo etc an anti multicultural deport all our 50,00 Muslims hate rally.?
….
Are you thinking of sleeping with your mother?
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October 24, 2014 2:05pm
Manolo

Not that she was young, but could the “missing” Judith have done this?
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/24/world/europe/as-islamists-seek-to-fill-ranks-more-western-women-answer-their-call.html?_r=0
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October 24, 2014 2:11pm
doggone7

OneTrack

Absolutely covers it. You dismiss what Hager says because of how the information was obtained. The stuff he came up with is therefore irrelevant.
You dismiss what Oram says about the control of the political agenda and how that plays through media because you don’t like what you perceive to be his politics.

All of which suggest Oram’s thesis is fair. Shooting the messengers is a great random activity and an expected part of a bigger sport.
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October 24, 2014 2:24pm
OneTrack

doggone – No, I think you missed. I am less than impressed as to how the information was obtained, but the key point is I don’t think Hagar is telling me anything I didn’t already know. This stuff ( releasing stuff to favoured journalists) has been going on forever.

So, I think Hagar had nothing. It wasn’t who he was, it was what he was saying and I thought he was saying nothing. But then the screeching from the left started and it went downhill from there.

And I dismiss what Oram is saying because he wants to suppress alternate views to his own – he is not making a thesis, he wants to control the agenda. And evil right-wing bloggers are asking inconvenient questions about his favoured team – they must be stopped. Because his friends are “good” people. Oh, that’s all right then – where shall we bank the cheque.

One more thing, Oram was shooting the messenger because of who he was.
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October 24, 2014 2:43pm
simpleton1

Is it just a case of, “would a wood chopper chop wood, if a wood chopper could chop wood”

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/nypd-officers-attacked-man-hatchet

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/10/23/us/new-york-police-attacked/index.html

Was he so poor, poverty stricken and desperate that he had to have wood for a fire to keep himself warm as some seem to for these events?
As a graduate, just what did he learn at Teachers College, Columbia University?
What books would be in his library?
What were his hobbies?
I am sure some more scholarly than me will come up with some interesting answers.
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October 24, 2014 3:19pm
kowtow

simpleton1
This might help!

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2014/10/new-york-hatchet-attackers-facebook-page-depicts-jihadist-quran-verses
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October 24, 2014 3:51pm
Tauhei Notts

Wreck at 8.56
New Zealanders have expressed sympathy to Cantabrians over the earthquakes.
My sympathy is extended to them because they were saddled with that dickwit. Hamiltonians learnt, at their extreme expense, what a train wreck the man was. It would be doing the public of Christchurch a service to publish the names of the people who appointed such a person for such an important job.
I understand his severance pay is so high because few local bodies these days are run by the intellectually handicapped so his chance of further employment in that field in our country is about zero. And if isn’t zero, then there is a serious fault in my previous sentence.
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October 24, 2014 3:53pm
Nookin

Some random questions

I wonder how much longer Mr Hesson can focus solely on the indiscretions of Mr Ryder and ignore the proliferation of boundaries when batting and wickets when bowling?

I wonder if any of the left leaning journalists on TV1 took young Mattie McClean aside this morning after he expressed the need for increased intelligence to protect, among others, globetrotting journalists from attacks similar to that occurred in Canada (a need suddenly prompted by a sense of self preservation, I suspect).

I wonder if Russel Norman conferred with some of his more mature caucus colleagues in order to discuss why, for example, discussion, diplomacy and negotiation was wholly out of the question and a waste of time when combating apartheid in South Africa and why the only recourse was to engage in condemnation, confrontation and in-your-face defiance before announcing that we must be nice to the naughty jihadists and that all we have to do is ask them out for a cup of tea and a nice little chat in order to stop them lopping off the heads of innocent aid workers with no axe to grind.

I wonder if members of the Green and Labour parties will announce to GCSB, SIS and internal affairs that, as a matter of principle, they do not want the benefit of any security offered by intelligence gathered in New Zealand on any New Zealand and that they will take their chances with any deranged jihadist on their books.

I wonder if Ms Logie will acknowledge any effort and diplomacy exhibited by Mr McCully in securing the return of the Malaysian diplomat answer charges.
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October 24, 2014 3:59pm
Nookin

Another random question.

At what point does one lose the authority to edit changes to a post?

For what it is worth, the last sentence of my last post reads “… securing the return of the Malaysian diplomat to answer charges”
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October 24, 2014 4:07pm
doggone7

OneTrack:
“…This stuff ( releasing stuff to favoured journalists) has been going on forever. So, I think Hagar had nothing. It wasn’t who he was, it was what he was saying and I thought he was saying nothing. But then the screeching from the left started and it went downhill from there.”

And there then is the difference of opinion. You don’t like the stealing bit and you think the Hager thing is all about the naive in their terrible shock, horror at some sort of exposé at the way they suddenly discovered that information and scuttlebutt is put about. Which you and many others know about.

But nothing about the content, the intention and who as involved. Summed up in three words I suppose “left wing smear.”

Oram wants to suppress alternate views to his own just because he points out that alternate views are suppressed? And he wants to control the agenda because he points out that so many are cut pout of even getting near the agenda and having a say? Strange to dismiss what Oram for trying to play the game the way it’s meant to be played. According to those he rightly questions.
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October 24, 2014 4:11pm
simpleton1

Thanks kowtow,
Sorry I would not make a good journalist. I am waiting for the experts in the media to ask or answer some of my obtuse questions.

As I do see that it is coming up to winter in New York, and keeping warm may be a priority, so practice may be needed for swinging a tomahawk. In that case I do wonder where accident, safety and health are in dealing in what may be considered a “work place” accident.
Would it be a case that NYPD should not be so wooden, and their training for the job should help them over come this, such as not profiling etc.
Or is it that the wood chopper should identify more exactly what fire wood he should be harvesting.
After all it has been well stressed that one.’s target should be unmistakably identified.

Enough.
My sympathies go to the injured and a good recovery.
May lessons from this be truly learnt, and not under hidden under a pile of obfuscation.
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October 24, 2014 4:27pm
stephieboy

Wingnut Proposes Confederate States of Reagan

Douglas MacKinnon, former Reagan administration official turned columnist, has a new book out called “The Secessionist States of America: The Blueprint for Creating a Traditional Values County … Now.” And he wants to name it after Ronald Reagan. The Confederate States of Bonzo?

http://freethoughtblogs.com/dispatches/2014/10/23/wingnut-proposes-confederate-states-of-reagan/

Now why not Jefferson or Adams or would that be too Liberal for Douglas McKiinnon.? Climate deniers will be pleased as he does not like those who “vilify fossil fuels ” thus the proposed Confederacy could be billowing lots of sulfurous brown smoke.
Gays , trans genders will be excluded. I wonder if Slavery will be reintroduced .?
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October 24, 2014 4:30pm
Ross12

This is good but long piece from the Brooking Institute about the demise of newspapers. If you don’t want to read it all just have look at the graph near the start showing the growth of Google advertising vs the entire newspaper industry –its amazing !!

http://www.brookings.edu/research/essays/2014/bad-news#

Couple this dramatic reduction in revenue with the massive drop in journalist quality in many papers and it is obvious there is only going to be one result over time.
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October 24, 2014 5:38pm
Reid

Couple this dramatic reduction in revenue with the massive drop in journalist quality in many papers and it is obvious there is only going to be one result over time.

What amazes me is the issues in that are so obvious and yet apparently, across news organisations, no-one in the industry has a clue what’s wrong. I mean do they want to lose their livelihoods? Apparently, they all do.
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October 24, 2014 5:58pm
Fletch

Greenpeace condemned by its original founder.

Dr Moore told BBC Radio 4’s Today Programme: ‘My problem with Greenpeace is they have lost any humanitarian roots they had.

‘When we started Greenpeace it was to stop nuclear war and the destruction of human civilisation, that of course is the “peace” in Greenpeace.

‘The “green” is the environment and that’s good as well, but they lost the concerns for humans… They have turned, basically, into an evil organisation.’

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2794116/greenpeace-condemned-original-founder-evil-guilty-losing-humanitarian-roots.html
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October 24, 2014 6:11pm
stephieboy

Fletch,a big long yawn… ! Patrick Moore left Greenpeace yonks ago. Ancient history but there is always someone after the fast buck as his consultation business on behalf Canadian and Asian logging interests ( Asia Pulp and Paper -APP )amply demonstrates ,

The Great Ventriloquist,

http://www.monbiot.com/2010/12/02/the-great-ventriloquist/

BTW Confederate States of Regean appeal as per above.?
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October 24, 2014 6:29pm
Fletch

Cartoon of the day honouring Canada’s fallen soldier.

https://twitter.com/LouiseMensch/status/525268701906755584/photo/1
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October 24, 2014 6:32pm
Reid

Just thinking about lefties and journalists and unionists and people like that, it’s pretty clear isn’t it there’s something going on in their heads that creeps in gradually till one day without them ever even noticing they wake up and hello, they’re braying mentals poised to gallop at full roar into the nasty widdle world they’ve hallucinated into existence in their evidently tiny little minds.

It’s like they cross some kind of Rubicon beyond which lies a world completely unknown to we unaffected but which appeals so much they start pretending to themselves without even knowing it that they’re “advanced thinkers” and make it their lifelong ambition, nay duty, to drag the rest of us into this “paradise” which only they, in their sanctimonious way, can possibly understand.

Frankly I wish they’d just fuck off and leave us alone. Sometimes I think we need a global crisis for which the only cure is a rocket ship in which all the lefties take off under suspended animation, while the rest of us get back to living life as it should be lived, after they all leave. That’s one false flag attack that personally, I’d strongly support.
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October 24, 2014 6:39pm
Shawn Herles

“http://www.monbiot.com/2010/12/02/the-great-ventriloquist/”

I would not be inclined to take anything George Moonbat says seriously. He’s on the extreme far Left, and has a long history of being an apologist for Communism and Islamic terrorism.
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October 24, 2014 6:41pm
Megatron

What is going on over at WOBH? Looks like the day is long gone when you could question a politicians parentage or intimate that the male co-leader of the Greens bares more than a striking resemblance to a woman’s genitalia. I see many of the old names have gone, or have been told to modify their nom de plume to be less offensive (Agent Ballsack as a case in point). The sterilisation of the WOBH is just about complete and lookout anyone who transgresses the unwritten rule.

Kind regards

A blocked commentator
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October 24, 2014 6:47pm
Redbaiter

I would not be inclined to take anything George Moonbat says seriously. He’s on the extreme far Left, and has a long history of being an apologist for Communism and Islamic terrorism.

Wow, more hypocrisy. Just a short time ago you were happy to post the work of a similar LW loon in support of your ignorant and vacuous assertions relating to Singapore.
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October 24, 2014 7:06pm
Reid

What is going on over at WOBH?

I think it’s a case of having to walk a mile in Cam’s shoes to really get it Megatron. Not that I have…

So as we know he had this media operation in the wings when the lefties and the MSM tried to shaft that by using illegal tactics which readers of Whale understand will be exposed in due course but which right now are pending revelations until the enquiries initiated as a result of said shafting are fully complete.

Personally I take this approach as a sign of professionalism, which is more than I can say for the tactics the MSM used during the attempted shafting operation.

Personally I do think his current mod policies are a bit OTT but then I also think DPF’s reactions to the same issue are a bit OTT too. However I think you also have to walk a mile in DPF’s shoes too, to fully appreciate what he’s experienced and why he’s doing what he’s doing.

Bald faced fact is: various lefties in the media and in the political parties on the left tried and continue to try to destroy the two most effective conservative blogs in NZ.

For both DPF and Whale their blogs are an important part of their business: for DPF much less so than for Cam but for both these are vehicles by which they fly kites, float balloons and generally promulgate conservatives perspectives across the board.

And certain people in the lefty found and no doubt continue to find that utterly intolerable. So they took action. In the immoral and execrable way any fanatic on a given spectrum will often do.

What DPF IMO does not quite yet understand is that other, vicious untruth campaigns are waiting for him too just round the corner lest he desist in his hitherto, to us, reasonable approach. Cam, being much more heavily bruised by this latest episode, IMO, understands the risk more precisely. Or maybe DPF does understand this and he’s trying to head the pending lies off at the pass, through his new, friendly, moderation policy. Or maybe he’s just, understandably, playing it safe, given his business interests depend upon his neutral credibility. Something which to me, DPF has always been, but which the lefty fanatics in their moral vapidity, would have no problem undermining, true or not, if it suited their interests.

My take on it is that at the end of the day, this Dirty Politics complete and utter bullshit was a mere opening salvo and skirmish in what will become a long term ongoing propaganda exchange where, conveniently for the lefties, they evidently have the media firmly in their camp. Quelle surprise. Quelle horreur.

Blogs rule. OK?
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October 24, 2014 7:15pm
Griff

Cost of State House sculpture rocketed to $1.9 million
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11347859
Thank fuck I dont pay rates only a resource rental.
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October 24, 2014 7:20pm
OneTrack

Herald – “Cost of State House sculpture rocketed to $1.9 million”

So spendthrift Len’s Queens Wharf state house protest art piece could have blown out to two million (and still might). Only ratepayers money. And they can’t even have the chandelier made locally. No, it “has” to be Italian.

But if something simple like that could blow out like that, how much will the train set cost us.

And they wonder why tax and spend socialists have a bad name.
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October 24, 2014 7:27pm
nasska

State House for sale in Reefton $140,000. Ref: http://www.trademe.co.nz/property/residential-property-for-sale/auction-773976025.htm

Len’s State House vicinity of Queens Wharf $1,900,000.

Brother! You Jaffas can sure pick ’em. 🙂
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October 24, 2014 7:54pm
big bruv

And now for the really good news.

http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/regional/257740/house-can-be-sold-over-unpaid-rates

It appears that Penny has lost her battle. 🙂
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October 24, 2014 8:03pm
nasska

Do you have a spare room you could rent out BB? 🙂
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October 24, 2014 8:07pm
nasska

Johnboy will give her a reference. 🙂
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October 24, 2014 8:08pm
Griff

looking forward to the auction
KB meeting and allround popcorn session
gummy goldfish all lined up to cheer her lordship on
Poor bastard that buys it will have to evict her
imagine the screaming on that day
Bet it will be on tv like when they evicted her from occupy.
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October 24, 2014 8:11pm
big bruv

nasska

Hell, who the fuck would let her rent a room. You would never get paid nor would you ever get a moments peace and quiet.
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October 24, 2014 8:25pm
stephieboy

Shawn Herles (5,063 comments) says: October 24th, 2014 at 6:41 pm

Monibot a card carrying member of the Communist Party .?

Naturally you put your trust in this rightwing climate denial nut,?,

http://www.skepticalscience.com/Monckton_Myths_blog.htm
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October 24, 2014 8:39pm
publicwatchdog

Actually folks – sorry to disappoint you – but I think your jubilation about Judge Menzies decision is a little misplaced….

🙂

Kind regards

Penny Bright

Anti- corruption Public Watchdog
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October 24, 2014 11:14pm
Megatron

Reid @7:15
Thank you for that incisive response. Let me cogitate on your missive in the light of day.
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October 24, 2014 11:17pm
publicwatchdog

Also ‘Griff’ – you seem to have forgotten the small, technical point – that although I was singled out, individually persecuted and prosecuted by Auckland Council as an Occupy Auckland peaceful protestor, in Court, Auckland Council were NOT successful.

http://www.occupyaucklandvsaucklandcouncilappeal.org.nz

Occupy Auckland (and myself as an Appellant in person) won the Appeal against Auckland Council in the High Court.

Kind regards

Penny Bright
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October 24, 2014 11:24pm
Nookin

Whether you won the appeal is a matter of interpretation, Penelope.

A trespass notice was served, an injnction obtained and you were removed.

You and your colleagues sought to have the bylaw declared invalid on the ground that it was an unjustified restriction on rights. You lost.

You argued that the injunction should not have issued against you. You lost.

You alleged political victimisation. You lost. In fact the judged chastised you because although this was a major plank in your case, you produced not a shred of evidence and did not even have the courtesy of putting the allegation to the council witness. You lost that point, too.

The court ruled that the injunction went too far in that it purported to restrain persons unknown from setting up shop anew. The court would have re-drawn the terms of the injunction had you still been there.

So, who won?
Does the council have a valid bylaw – yes.
Does the council have legal authority to issue a valid trespass notice- yes.
Will the court issue a properly worded injunction in future – yes.
Will the police remove you – yes
Did the court over rule earlier judicial comments that you had no respect for the rights of others- no.
Did the court accept that their was even a remote air of reality about your allegation of discrimination – no.
Did the final ruling have anything even remotely to do with any vindication of your personal conduct and your own personal occupation of the reserve- no.

I suggest that ACC will be quite happy with the outcome. The injunction was discharged because it was not needed anymore. You lost.
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October 25, 2014 7:23am

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