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October 13, 2014 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 13 October 2014

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jcuk

Wiki 2.17
The trouble is that in old age you are paying for your mistakes in life and there is no way of meeting the bill.
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October 13, 2014 2:38pm
stephieboy

Kea (12,542 comments) says:
October 13th, 2014 at 1:37 pm,

You continually repeat the canard that yes the US opposes ISIS openly but supports them in other kinds of ways. You say this by repeating the lie that the US channelled funds to militant sunni Jihad groups like Al Nursa and thence ISISi.

Blatantly untrue . Certainly military aid to moderate groups in the Syrian opposition, but they e.g refused to supply the moderates air to surface missiles least they fall into the hands of those same radical jihadists . That facts explains why Assad has the military. advantage.

Agin a nice word in for your Chechen Islamic brethren.? Or are they stooges of the US.?
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October 13, 2014 2:41pm
Kea

stephieboy “Moderate” armed thugs on a jihad to establish an Islamic Sharia law state ?

I am pleased you mentioned the Chechen people. When they wanted to establish an Islamic separatist state within the Russian administrative zone, the USA supported their efforts !

Yet when Russians in the Crimea want to be part of Russia, they have a problem with it. Effectively supporting a land division of the USSR in 2014. 😯

And if you think the Arab Muslims are bad, you should educate yourself about those who live in Dagastan and the Caucasus. They make ISIS look like a bunch of pussies.

[The Chechens’ American friends]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/sep/08/usa.russia
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October 13, 2014 2:53pm
David Garrett

Stephie boy: You’re a trier mate…I’ll give you that…most commenters, having been humiliated as you have today, would quietly slink off to marshal an argument for another day…

But since you’re still here, that question again, which I have been asking you all day: “Why, if we allowed our Muslim population to increase to 5%, would we expect to have any different experience from all the Western countries who have done so…and experience which has been universally bad?”
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October 13, 2014 2:58pm
dime

Kea – i thought you grabbed your bat & ball and went home?
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October 13, 2014 2:58pm
Don the Kiwi

Don’t persecute our feathered friend, Dime.

He’s being very responsible now 😉

(except, don’t mention the R word…………Religi………….Bugger – I nearly did it !! 🙂
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October 13, 2014 3:04pm
publicwatchdog

FYI Kiwibloggers

____________________________________________________________________________________________________

13 October 2014

MEDIA UPDATE – Penny Bright

“Legal spanner now in the works to help stop the forced rating sale of my home.”

I have just received this email from Auckland Council’s Senior Solicitor, Civil Litigation, regarding my:

1. Application to set aside judgment (of the District Court dated 24 Feb 2012)

2. Interlocutory application for stay of proceeding

which were filed on Thursday 9 October 2014. and Friday 10 October 2014 respectively.

The next step is for the Auckland District Court to set a hearing date to hear these two ‘intertwined’ matters.

Auckland Council intends to oppose these applications.

In the meantime – High Court proceedings to sell my home are effectively stalled.

Legally, these applications are effectively a big, fat spanner in the Auckland Council works, in their historic and legally unprecedented attempt to force the rating sale of a freehold home.

This stand that I am making is in defence of the lawful rights of ALL citizens and ratepayers for transparency and accountability of Auckland Council rates spending.

How many billion$ are being spent by Auckland Council and Auckland Council Council Controlled Organisations (CCOs) on private sector consultants and contractors?

What are the NAMES of these private sector consultants and contractors?
What is the SCOPE of these contracts?
What is the TERM of these contracts?
What is the VALUE of these contracts?

Why aren’t citizens and ratepayers being given these ‘devilish details’?

It’s OUR public money!

Where EXACTLY is it going?

How can you have transparency or accountability, without proper written records?

The Public Records Act 2005, makes this a clear statutory requirement of local authorities under section 17 :

http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2005/0040/latest/DLM345729.html

Recordkeeping requirements
Subpart 1—Key duties

17 Requirement to create and maintain records

(1) Every public office and local authority must create and maintain full and accurate records of its affairs, in accordance with normal, prudent business practice, including the records of any matter that is contracted out to an independent contractor.

(2) Every public office must maintain in an accessible form, so as to be able to be used for subsequent reference, all public records that are in its control, until their disposal is authorised by or under this Act or required by or under another Act.

(3) Every local authority must maintain in an accessible form, so as to be able to be used for subsequent reference, all protected records that are in its control, until their disposal is authorised by or under this Act.

__________________________________________________________

Where are the STATUTORY ‘Third Party Public Watchdogs’ on this issue?

Why are they apparently so spectacularly useless?

Where are Transparency International New Zealand?

Given that New Zealand is ‘perceived’ to be the ‘least corrupt country in the world’, according to the 2013 Transparency International ‘Corruption Perception Index’ – shouldn’t we be the MOST transparent?

Where is the NZ ‘Tax Payers’ Union?

Don’t they purportedly support transparency in government spending?

Why does an ordinary citizen like myself, feel the need to take such an extraordinary stand, in order to ensure that Auckland Council follows the law?

Because NOBODY else is trying to hold Auckland Council and their ‘Corporate Controlled Organisations (CCOs), accountable to the law.

That is why believe that this draconian attempt is being made to ‘neck stamp’ me – because I am an outspoken anti-corruption ‘whistle-blower’ – who has been ‘blowing the whistle until my eyeballs bleed’ (as it were 🙂

I look forward to defending myself in the Auckland District Court (again), against Auckland Council (again), as happened when I was individually singled out over the Occupy Auckland legal proceedings, as a ‘Named Defendant’.

http://www.occupyaucklandvsaucklandcouncilappeal.org.nz

In the Occupy Auckland case, it was proven (again) that you CAN ‘beat City Hall’.

At the end of the day, I feel very comfortable and relaxed in anticipation that although these proceedings were started by Auckland Council – that I shall (again) finish them ……

Penny Bright

‘Anti-corruption /anti-privatisation Public Watchdog’

Attendee: Australian Public Sector Anti-Corruption Conference 2009
Attendee: Transparency International Anti-Corruption Conference 2010
Attendee: Australian Public Sector Anti-Corruption Conference 2013
Attendee: G20 Anti-Corruption Conference 2014

…………………………….
…………………………….
__________________________________________________________

Case Management Team

Auckland District Court

The Auckland Council has been served the attached applications by Ms Penny Bright (“applications”):

1. Application to set aside judgment (of the District Court dated 24 Feb 2012)

2. Interlocutory application for stay of proceeding

The Council intends to oppose the applications.

I understand that the court has yet to allocate a hearing date. Given that the applications are intertwined, could you please ensure that they are heard together.

I look forward to receiving the notice of hearing for the applications.

Ngā mihi | Regards

John Hilario BA LLB | Senior Solicitor – Civil Litigation
Legal Services | Auckland Council

…………………………………………
…………………………………………

Visit our website: http://www.aucklandcouncil.govt.nz

Auckland Council
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October 13, 2014 3:12pm
David Garrett

Jesus Cunliffe is another Stephie boy! Although he has finally faced reality and withdrawn, he is still talking about his “strong levels of support” around the party urging him to stay! I suppose if he excludes his entire caucus he might just be right…

He would have got a lot more respect if he had done what former British Labour leader Michael Foot did in the 80’s after a similar thrashing by Thatcher…not only did he immediately resign as leader, but he went on TV and said he was “deeply ashamed” of his performance and the thrashing he had led the party to..

..And while I don’t advocate kicking a man when he is down, perhaps Parliamentary Services might want to look at Cunliffe’s air travel these past couple of weeks…In his announcement he said both his mother and his brother were seriously ill, and he had been “running around the country” – by which he obviously means flying – to care for them…Admirable as it might be to look after dear old Mum when she is ill, flying to her side is certainly not a “parliamentary purpose”…
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October 13, 2014 3:12pm
stephieboy

kea, the columnist John Laughland is also a regular contributor to RT whose views obviously reflect its decidedly pro Kremlin and Putin stand . As Laughland would be fully aware he could do no other ,as RT like V of R etc , is fully controlled, owned and operated by the Kremlin.

Like its predecessors Pravda and ivestia tows completely tows the official party line.!

Here,

http://rt.com/op-edge/193536-sanctions-eu-russia-biden-ukraine/
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October 13, 2014 3:20pm
Kea

dime, I can guarantee a life time ban if I tell you what I think of narks like Scott Chris. My views on religion are mild compared to my views on freedom of expression.

I also hate vegans 🙂
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October 13, 2014 3:21pm
wikiriwhis business

Rep. Alan Grayson questions the Federal Reserve Inspector General Elizabeth Coleman on where $9 TRILLION dollars went, and she has no idea. He makes note that this would be $30,000 for every single person in the country just vanished without a trace.

https://www.minds.com/blog/view/280492074648735744/the-1-fed-039official039-who-should-know-has-no-idea-where-9-trillion-dollars-went-shocking-testimony
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October 13, 2014 3:25pm
Kea

“kea, the columnist John Laughland is also a regular contributor to RT ”

stephieboy, do you think attacking the messenger distracts from your lack of argument ?. Yesterday you quoted the US state funded broadcaster to support your pro Obama stance.

The fact is they both spout propaganda and are slanted. However, I listen to all sides and do not dismiss anyone based on my personal bias alone.

You are a very emotional boy and must learn to be more rational in order to avoid future embarrassment.
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October 13, 2014 3:29pm
Griff

must learn to be more rational in order to avoid future embarrassment.

😆
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October 13, 2014 3:33pm
stephieboy

US state funded broadcaster.?? You mean PBS .? When did I do that .

The fact remains John Laughland is an important RT contributor disseminating a decidedly Pro Kremlin point of view . it helps to be ware where biases lie which gives one some perspective hence his pro kremlin anti Chechin stance .

I think the manner he readily slavishly follows the Kremlin line is utterly shameful. !
http://rt.com/search/everywhere/term/john+Laughland/
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October 13, 2014 3:34pm
alex Masterley

Good luck to you Penny.

To succeed on an application to set aside judgement you need to;
A) Show you have a reasonable ground of defence,
B) Explain your delay in taking steps,
C) Show the plaintiff will not show irreparable injury if the judgment is set aside.

Looking at your case, from afar, you will have difficulty getting past items A&B. Not so much C although as a ratepayer I object to subsidising you.
Saying that the Council is not transparent in what it pays contractors is not a defence under the rating powers act.
it is two years since judgment is entered. you need to have a decent explanation for your delay in taking steps.

I do also point out whatever happens on your application, win or loose still be stung for costs.
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October 13, 2014 3:34pm
Manolo

Yes, the savages are that close: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/10/12/top-us-gen-dempsey-says-islamic-state-fighters-recently-had-straight-shot-to/
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October 13, 2014 3:41pm
Shawn Herles

“stephieboy, do you think attacking the messenger distracts from your lack of argument ?”

Attacking the messenger is fine if the messenger has no credibility, and anything pre-approved by the Kremlin has no credibility.

“. Yesterday you quoted the US state funded broadcaster to support your pro Obama stance.”

PBS has a long history of being highly, even unfairly, critical of the US government. You’r attempting to claim apples and oranges are the same, without having done any intellectual grunt work to determine if they are both equivalent. Nothing rational about that or your claim.

“However, I listen to all sides and do not dismiss anyone based on my personal bias alone.”

What a load of crap. Your bias is: religion bad/the US bad. Everything you say proceeds from those two personal forms of bias.

“Youu are a very emotional boy and must learn to be more rational in order to avoid future embarrassment.”

Stephie has his blind spots, we all do, but he has never been banned from KB for throwing an irrational, emotional hissy fit and abusing peolple., and embarrising himself.

You have. More than once. Take your own advice.
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October 13, 2014 3:51pm
oldpark

If there was a book for next Labour Leader, it would go like this.Andrew ” twitchy” Little 2/5 Favourite ,David ‘nosy’ Parker 6/4. Grant “whats a party vote” Robertson 33/1.There is always 2020 for Robertson.
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October 13, 2014 3:56pm
Shawn Herles

Kind of a shame that Cunliffe has resigned. I was hoping he would stay to the bitter end and cause as much trouble as possible. I guess reality finally made it’s way into his head.
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October 13, 2014 4:00pm
Kea

Stephie has his blind spots, we all do, but he has never been banned from KB for throwing an irrational, emotional hissy fit and abusing peolple., and embarrising himself.

Shawn Herles, And nor have I.

I have always been considerably less abusive than the Christian zealots and others who attack all I say. The key difference is I will not crawl in to the gutter and become a nark who emails DPF to squeal in a transparent attempt to deny a voice to opposing views.

Your entire world is disturbing and dangerous, seen through the distorting lens of religious fables and bigotry. You can not pretend to have a rational grasp of anything, for as long as you profess belief in imaginary beings while letting that belief distort logic.

Your demonisation, and dehumanising, of certain groups you consider on the outer, is the source of religious wars and persecution through out history. You like to pretend you are a friend of Jews, but they know all to well that the Christian need to hate can turn on them again in an instant.

So I am reassured by the fact my views do not meet with your approval. 😆
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October 13, 2014 4:11pm
Shawn Herles

“You can not pretend to have a rational grasp of anything, for as long as you profess belief in imaginary beings while letting that belief distort logic.”

Thanks for proving my point about your own bias and bigotry. Well done! 🙂

“Your demonisation, and dehumanising, of certain groups you consider on the outer, ”

Point to a single post I have made which dehumanizes anyone. Just one.
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October 13, 2014 4:23pm
Kea

Shawn Herles, like all of my attackers, you claim the moral high ground while supporting and demanding war and death on a daily basis.

You do not see me do that. I never advocate war. Not for the Muslims, Jews, Christians, Hindus, no one. How do you reconcile your belief in the teachings of Jesus with your daily demands for death ?

It seems as if you never read past the god ordered death and destruction of the old testament. In that regard you and your ilk have considerable common ground with radical Muslims against whom you rant daily in a confused haze of bigotry and hate.

I do not hate the religious, but I hate what they are doing and the way their faith in the non-existent distorts normal human reason and compassion.
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October 13, 2014 4:33pm
publicwatchdog

Thank you Alex.

I have covered those three points you raise in my supporting affidavit.

Kind regards

Penny Bright
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October 13, 2014 4:34pm
IGM

With all this Cunliffe crap being the lead news, Slobcrim and Lecher Len have been having a ball. It is time these two parasites were once again held to scrutiny; the obese slug will still be plotting ways to get out of becoming a gang member’s bitch in the pen back in US. Len was congratulating someone on Newstalk today, so he is getting sassy also, still with media support. Come on MSM, the public want this German criminal out of our politics, our legal system, our country, and our lives.
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October 13, 2014 4:34pm
wikiriwhis business

PM accused of scaremongering
Meanwhile, an international security expert has accused the Prime Minister of “scaremongering” to build a case for war by claiming New Zealand could face domestic beheading threats.

PM accused of scaremongering

Meanwhile, an international security expert has accused the Prime Minister of “scaremongering” to build a case for war by claiming New Zealand could face domestic beheading threats.

John Key also told TV3’s The Nation yesterday that a disproportionate number of Islamic State fighters were sourced from in and around Oceania.

International security expert Paul Buchanan said the claims were “absurd”. “He’s building a case for war. He’s pulled the beheading imagery out for what I think are spurious purposes.”

Buchanan accused Key of misrepresenting New Zealand’s role in joining the coalition against Isis – although he conceded it was impossible to discount a threat. “There’s no evidence that because you fight against Isis the method of retribution is beheading on the streets of Auckland.”

He also rubbished the idea a “disproportionate” number of fighters were sourced here.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11341133
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October 13, 2014 4:38pm
kowtow

D Garrett

You said didn’t know about Denmark… here.

http://www.americanthinker.com/2014/10/does_dhimmitude_in_denmark_describe_our_destiny.html
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October 13, 2014 4:43pm
Shawn Herles

Kea,

I am not demanding war, war is simply what we have. That is an unavoidable fact. We have been at war, this war, since the 911 attacks. I did not demand it.

ISIS fully intends to wipe out a slew of ethnic and religious minorities, including Muslims who don’t meet with their approval. Doing nothing about that death and destruction is not peace, it is cowardice, and contempt for your fellow human beings, contempt for the weak and powerless.

Jesus tells us to love our neighbors. How is allowing a terrorist army to slaughter thousands of men, women and children consistent with that, or consistent with any version of basic human compassion?

You’r not advocating for peace Kea. You are advocating for allowing genocide, and for no better reason than your antireligious delusions and bigotry.
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October 13, 2014 4:43pm
Griff

Shawn playing parrot chess is pointless.
It squawks loudly shites all over the blog and then claims its won.
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October 13, 2014 4:43pm
Odakyu-sen

“New Zealand’s national threat level in response to risk posed by foreign fighters and Isis has gone from “very low” to ”low” Prime Minister John Key said this afternoon…” (Source: NZ Herald).

What does this mean? Fortunately, the Herald included a copy of NZ’s threat level table.
“Low” means a terrorist attack or violent criminal behavior or violent protest is assessed as possible but unlikely.

I guess the situation in the UK is “High” because these incidents are assessed as “likely.”

In the Australian incident a couple of weeks ago, the level would have been “Extreme” because the authorities had assessed that the incident was imminent (hence the raids).

Now, how did they get into this mess in the first place, and what steps are being taken to a: stop it getting worse, and b: rolling back the risk.

You have to ask yourself this question: in a nation so obsessed with nannying health & safety on one hand, how can authorities do nothing to reduce such obvious sources of potential death and injury in the community?
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October 13, 2014 5:37pm
Lucia Maria

NZ Embassies used for spying – Snowden documents

Fresh US security information released by whistle-blower Edward Snowden appears to suggest the GCSB is using New Zealand embassies overseas to conduct covert intelligence gathering.

Amidst a raft of NSA documents posted on the Intercept website over the weekend, is one labelled “Exceptionally Controlled Information”.

It’s listed as top secret and appears to document some NSA operational details and codes.

Within it is a listing called STATEROOM, which talks about “restricting access to information about personnel involved in the covert collection and processing of SIGNIT (signals and intelligence) from Diplomatic missions abroad”.

It goes on to say that “this activity is conducted by US, AUS, CAN, GRB and NZ” all of which are members of the Five Eyes spy network.

Given that Snowden is in Russia, no information that he releases can be considered to be valid and trustworthy. What ever he’s releasing will be with the say-so of the FSB, only.

From Defector Describes Russia’s Handling of NSA Leaker Snowden :

Lt. Gen Ion Mihai Pacepa, the highest-ranking Soviet bloc intelligence official ever to defect to the West, tells Accuracy in Media that recent developments in the case of NSA leaker Edward Snowden have convinced him that Snowden’s arrival in Russia was “the result of a well-prepared Russian intelligence operation” against the United States.

Snowden “is an agent of the Russian foreign intelligence service,” he has concluded.

….

Pacepa made the remarks about Snowden in response to a request from AIM that he comment on a Russian media report that before Snowden arrived in Moscow, he had spent several days living at the Russian consulate in Hong Kong. This revelation contradicted previous Russian claims that Snowden’s decision to travel to Moscow came as a surprise and was unexpected.

…

He explained, “Few outsiders knew that during the Cold War there were more people in the Soviet bloc working for KGB disinformation than for the Soviet army and defense industry put together. Most of this immense disinformation machinery survived, and it will certainly do its best to persuade the rest of the world that Snowden is a small private salesman who acted on his own. The recent revelation that Snowden spent several days hidden in the Russian consulate in Hong Kong will certainly not help the Kremlin to keep its hand in this defection clean for long.”

…
“During the Cold War there were hundreds of other self-motivated defectors from the Soviet bloc, and as far as I know, none came out loaded with secret documents. Even the famous KGB archivist Col. Vasili Mitrokhin, who in the 1990s supplied us with some 25,000 pages of highly confidential documents (described by the FBI as ‘the most complete and extensive intelligence ever received from any source’) did not dare to cross the border with documents concealed on him. The British MI6 smuggled them out of Russia.”

Snowden, by contrast, was gathering up classified documents for months…
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October 13, 2014 5:41pm
Kea

Odakyu-sen, I could be wrong, but the only terrorist act I recall in NZ was carried out by the French.

If you want to assess violent crimes by the religion of the people responsible, then guess who comes out on top ? [Hint: It is not Hindus, Muslims or even those troublesome Shintos 😉 ]

DPF recently advised us that 0.006% of Muslims are terrorists. And that figure probably includes those fighting to defend their homeland from invading Yanks.

So you can work out the risk level yourself for NZ. It is 0.006% of bugger all.
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October 13, 2014 5:44pm
Longknives

Odakyu sen- Simply because the Authorities are terrified of ‘offending’ the Islamic Community (That same Islamic Community who are preaching hatred,murder and Jihad against the very people who welcomed them into this country and pay the taxes which support them..)
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October 13, 2014 5:49pm
Kea

Longknives, perhaps you can share your – personal – experiences of “hatred,murder and Jihad” here in NZ ? 🙄
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October 13, 2014 5:57pm
Odakyu-sen

Kea, there is a difference between:

a. “I did a bad thing, and, by the way, I happen to be a _______________ (well, that’s what I put down on the last census form when they asked me about my religion).

b. My community supports what I did. My religious leaders support what I did. There are lots of clips on YouTube telling me that a good ____________ (that’s what I put down on the last census form when they asked me about my religion) should do that.

Do you agree with my point?
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October 13, 2014 5:58pm
nasska

Odakyu-sen’s comparison of our policy of welcoming potential terrorists yet destroying everything from kid’s adventures to industry through odious “elf ‘n safety” legislation is brilliant.

The nanny state idiots who will employ people to invade my personal property to ensure that I wear a helmet on a quad bike then run out the red carpet for people who hate us, what’s left of our freedom & our way of life.
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October 13, 2014 5:58pm
Odakyu-sen

nasska,

I understand that in government there are various little fiefdoms and principalities, such as the Empire of Health & Safety, who well understand the need to grow and to seek an ever-larger slice of the funding pie.

What really gets my goat is the overall inconsistency of the State. And when it all crashes down, just like Cave Creek, no-one will be held accountable, no-one who enabled the situation will ever lose their job or go to jail, and we won’t really learn from our mistakes.
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October 13, 2014 6:07pm
Kea

Odakyu-sen, I see your point but it is misleading. Muslim extremists get little support from ordinary Muslims and their governments. I can find clips on YouTube supporting any point of view. Out of 1.6 Billion people there are bound to be some nuts.

My own personal view, is zero tolerance for radical Islam in the West. If they live here they play by our rules. The same as for any other religion.

You attempt to attribute the wrongs of a few to the many. This has all been done before, by the usual suspects:

Islamophobia & Anti-Semitism: Everything Old Is New Again

First, let’s look at themes from anti-Semitic propaganda, and then at just a few of the statements currently being made about Islam and Muslims.

ANTI-SEMITIC PROPAGANDA

Anti-Semitic propaganda maintained that:

—all Jews were responsible for the act of any Jew, e.g…

http://www.loonwatch.com/2012/06/islamophobia-anti-semitism-everything-old-is-new-again/
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October 13, 2014 6:10pm
IGM

Viking: Hope those medals you mention are not the sort your friend Cunliffe claims were his fathers. My criticism of you was valid and still stands . . . imbecile!
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October 13, 2014 6:11pm
Odakyu-sen

Class,

For your homework assignment, please debate Kea’s assertion that, “Muslim extremists get little support from ordinary Muslims and their governments.”

Odakyu-sensei
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October 13, 2014 6:15pm
nasska

Kea

If we as a nation are stupid enough to allow more Muslim invasion (or immigration as it is described by the terminally optimistic) how do you see the sons they breed with much gusto turning out?

It would seem that in the UK, the Continent & Australia that it’s the second generation who are the worst problem yet there’s no lawful way of getting rid of them.
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October 13, 2014 6:19pm
Kea

Odakyu-sen, there are exceptions. The American ally Saudi Arabia being one of them. They are the biggest financier of radical mosques on the planet. Saudis financed, planned and executed 9/11. But of course, exceptions do not make the rule.

The biggest Muslim country in the world is Indonesia. A few get radicalised by Arabs, who prey upon the poor and ignorant. However, most Indonesians love the USA, and Western culture, to a degree I find disturbing. The American president spent his formative years there.

You have to remember that most of the bigots you are appealing to in your comment have never had anything to do with Muslims. They could be turned against any group that is different, such is the fickle nature of the beast.
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October 13, 2014 6:22pm
ross411

Hmm. Glenn Greenwald not only says whatever he is paid to say by Dotcom, he also doesn’t say what he gets paid not to say by Paypal.

The 50,000-pages of documents obtained by NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden contain extensive documentation of PayPal Corporation’s partnership and cooperation with the National Security Agency (NSA), according to three NSA veterans. To date, no information has been released as to the extent of the working relationship and cooperation between the two entities- NSA and PayPal Corporation. What’s more, the billionaire owner of PayPal Corporation has entered into a $250 Million business partnership with two journalists-Glenn Greenwald and Laura Poitras, a journalist duo who possess the entire cache of evidence provided by Edward Snowden. Despite earlier pledges by the journalists in question, only one percent (1%) of Snowden’s documents has been released.

No wonder he aligns himself with Nicky Hager, master of only saying what suits his own interests, in the “Dirty Politics” finagle.
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October 13, 2014 6:25pm
nasska

….“Muslim extremists get little support from ordinary Muslims and their governments.”…..

Quite possible….but we ignore just how easy it is to turn an “ordinary” moderate Muslim into a rabid, irrational Jihadist.
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October 13, 2014 6:27pm
ross411

Just had a comment marked as spam and immediately removed. At least The Standard lets people post their comments, even if they get defaced by Lynn and result in a ban.
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October 13, 2014 6:27pm
Kea

nasska, I have said it many many times.

1. I am an atheist opposed to all religion.

2. My least favourite desert cult is Islam and my preferred one is Judaism, due to their intellectual culture.

3. I believe we should get out of Muslim lands and go home.

4. I believe it absurd we allow radical Islam to flourish in the West, while we drop bombs on them in their homelands.

The most dangerous, well funded and connected Muslim jihadists live in London, not in Mali herding goats in a blanket and sandals and going hungry.
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October 13, 2014 6:28pm
Shawn Herles

“I am an atheist opposed to all religion.”

Irony alert! 🙂

“Atheist Churches Are On the Rise in the U.S.”

“A new type of church is springing up these days, but these aren’t your run of the mill churches. Sure, you’ve got people congregating on Sunday morning as well as participating in a lot of other things that are part of your average Christian church service. However, these new churches that are popping up aren’t worshiping Jesus Christ, nor do they care about any other religion, as these are atheist churches.”

http://www.webpronews.com/atheist-churches-are-on-the-rise-in-the-u-s-2013-11
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October 13, 2014 6:33pm
nasska

….”The most dangerous, well funded and connected Muslim jihadists live in London, not in Mali herding goats in a blanket and sandals and going hungry.”….

Or in the proximity of the Avondale mosque. They sure get enough visiting firebrands & nutters.
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October 13, 2014 6:37pm
Griff

Nutters how many do we actually need?
I have commented on my Muslim fishing buddy before .
he is harmless and not anti christian or anti the west.
but
Some of the crap he believes in around his religion is pretty whack
faith healing magic and other such rubbish
The problem is this sort of nonsense has some believers who aren’t harmless and some of the people who spread the crap in positions of power within Muslim communities do hate the west and our way of life
Like ~~dumbwaiters~~ Redbaiters politics also have a parallel with the Norway incident or T McVies little demonstration
How do w protect against such people without infringing on the rights of the sane?
We have to have spys to do so
a necessary evil
I honestly hope that they monitor blogs and communications and do target those with extreme points of view . I dont want them to know I surf porn or whatever
But
because I know how easy it would be for a loner or a reactionary to get carried away and do unimagined harm with a few kgs of common garden chemicals.
I accept that being pat and parcel with a safe community and honestly hope there is a file on me somewhere due to being my reactionary on KB as I hope that the same goes for any other person showing extreme views in any community.
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October 13, 2014 6:38pm
Kea

Shawn, speaking of Irony:

“I was not in agreement with the sharp anti-Semitic tone, but from
time to time I read arguments which gave me some food for thought. At
all events, these occasions slowly made me acquainted with the man
and the movement, which in those days guided Vienna’s destinies: Dr.
Karl Lueger and the Christian Social Party.”

[Adolf Hitler, “Mein Kampf”, Vol. 1, Chapter 2]
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October 13, 2014 6:38pm
nasska

….” However, these new churches that are popping up aren’t worshiping Jesus Christ, nor do they care about any other religion, as these are atheist churches.”…..

I blame it on the lack of residential care for the insane. Anyone who’d waste their Sundays worshipping something they don’t believe in instead of having a lie in is not as one with the real world.
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October 13, 2014 6:41pm
Shawn Herles

Alain de Botton puts faith in temples for atheists in Britain

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/books/authorinterviews/9045391/Alain-de-Botton-puts-faith-in-temples-for-atheists.html

But, but, but, atheism is not a religion!

Yeah right! 🙂
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October 13, 2014 6:41pm
Lucia Maria

Kea,

I believe it absurd we allow radical Islam to flourish in the West, while we drop bombs on them in their homelands.

Interesting. How do you propose “we” (stated loosely) stop allowing radical Islam to flourish in the West? Though, your comment could read in another way – that you have no problem with this, just with the bomb dropping. That would be more consistent, given your other comments that I’ve seen.

For the record, Poland has had Muslims for centuries and had no particular problems with them.
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October 13, 2014 6:42pm
Kea

Griff, an awful lot of unsupported and unexplained “buts” in all of that.

If you want to see something pretty “whack” check out what Lucy and her crew believe. The fact is your life has never been negatively interfered with by Muslims. In fact you go fishing with one. Yet you still buy into the propaganda regardless of personal experience !

Most terrorist acts in the USA have been carried out by CHRISTIAN nut jobs, not Muslim ones. There is another wee fact to chew on.
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October 13, 2014 6:44pm
dad4justice

“The fact is your life has never been negatively interfered with by Muslims.”

Tell that to the families that have lost loved ones to deranged muslim suicide bombers. Do you actually read the gibberish rot you post here you unhinged mad parrot!
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October 13, 2014 6:48pm
Shawn Herles

For Kea’s ongoing education.

Dietrich Bonhoeffer – The Clergyman Who Stood Up Against Hitler!

http://www.matavuvale.com/forum/topics/dietrich-bonhoeffer-the
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October 13, 2014 6:52pm
Kea

How do you propose “we” (stated loosely) stop allowing radical Islam to flourish in the West?

We do not make concessions to them (or any religion). If a conflict exists, then the religious group must defer to the hosts cultural norms. In fact this seldom happens in reality. Most conflicts are staged in order to push an agenda. Radical Muslims love to claim “offense” and play the victim in order to establish domination over dozy white liberals.

I spend so much time fighting hypocrisy on KB I seldom get time to share my very harsh view of Islam in Europe. They have a huge problem there and even the Muslim hating Christian extremists, on KB, probably do not realise the extent of the problem.

Yes, Eastern European Muslims are pretty regular people. I have sat around drinking with them, along with a bunch of Catholics, in Croatia. Most real ordinary people do not behave badly unless led astray by propaganda from those seeking power.
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October 13, 2014 6:55pm
Kea

“Tell that to the families that have lost loved ones to deranged muslim suicide bombers.”

Yeah that was in Gore… or was it Napier ?
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October 13, 2014 6:57pm
Griff

Kea
You are not worth engaging and despite the fact that you mostly agree with my positions you are not really worth the effort to type a reply to.
Id rather debate with the sane like Shawn, Lucy red or even penny.
so dont bother trying to engage with me I dont have an interest in swapping comments with trolling loons.
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October 13, 2014 6:58pm
dad4justice

haha what a crackup the pothead gripp doesn’t want to talk to polly the mad parrot no more.lol what insanity.
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October 13, 2014 7:04pm
Shawn Herles

Well, I’m off to watch some TV. Debating with Kea is just not challenging enough. Like shooting fish in a barrel. 🙂
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October 13, 2014 7:04pm
nasska

….”red or even penny.”….

Could you give a source for your definition of sane Griff? 🙂
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October 13, 2014 7:04pm
Kea

Griff, yes we all have seen how butt-hurt you get when your flawed reasoning is exposed. You seem to become very distressed when confronted with reasoned debate supported by facts.

Personally I think such a fragile chap as yourself should consider avoiding blogs altogether, for the sake of your mental well being.

It will save you lighting up, sticking your fingers in your ears, and rocking back and forth chanting your mantra of “troll troll troll” when ever things don’t go your own way. Like the weather for example 😆
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October 13, 2014 7:08pm
Kea

haha what a crackup the pothead gripp doesn’t want to talk to polly the mad parrot no more.lol what insanity.

Dad, yeah he got all out of shape ages ago when I pulled him up on his bung weather forecasts.

Jim Hickey does it all the time, but he manages to stay cheerful and amicable. Poor old Griff is a bit highly strung. I hope those blog monitors he mentioned at 6:38pm are keeping an eye on him. I worry about him. A lot. 😉
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October 13, 2014 7:14pm
Griff

As an admitted Aspie its not as fixed as some definitions.
Personally I have quantified kea as a Psychopath.
without the humanity to feel embarrassment, shame… totally without morals.
As such to engage with him is to try to debate with a lunatic.

Psychopathy (/saɪˈkɒpəθi/) (also known as, though sometimes distinguished from sociopathy /ˈsoʊsiəˌpæθi/) is traditionally defined as a personality disorder characterized by enduring antisocial behavior, diminished empathy and remorse,
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October 13, 2014 7:14pm
dad4justice

“I hope those blog monitors he mentioned at 6:38pm are keeping an eye on him.”

Drug induced psychosis and paranoia.
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October 13, 2014 7:18pm
nasska

Psychopath…..that’s a bit tough Griff. I prefer Merriam-Websters version: 🙂

kea
noun ˈkē-ə
Definition of KEA
: a large mostly dull green New Zealand parrot (Nestor notabilis) that is normally insectivorous but sometimes destroys sheep by slashing the back to feed on the kidney fat.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/wvwtntwhxaftlh0/Kea%208.jpg?dl=0
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October 13, 2014 7:25pm
Kea

Griff, as an “admitted Aspie” you are in no position to comment, but since you did… the truth is not a matter of vote or appealing to the popular.

You have basically admitted that you debate in order to “fit in”. I guessed that anyway, as you seem desperate to appear scientifically literate by promoting the whole AGW thing. You debate those who question what you say by calling them names which suggest less scientific literacy on their part. You are unable to form any rational argument in your own words, so you attempt to bolster your position with links to warmists sites.

You also admit attacking all I say, in spite of agreeing with me.

If I was the sort of person to shout Trollllllllll, you would be first in line, after stephieboy. But I have two brain cells to rub together, they are not flash, but enough to prevent me shouting troll when confronted with rational debate.
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October 13, 2014 7:26pm
Yoza

Kea (12,562 comments) says:
October 13th, 2014 at 7:26 pm

You have basically admitted that you debate in order to “fit in”. I guessed that anyway, as you seem desperate to appear scientifically literate by promoting the whole AGW thing.

That’s like saying someone is attempting to look scientifically literate by promoting the whole sun’s at the centre of the solar system thing.
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October 13, 2014 7:37pm
Viking2

IGM (353 comments) says:
October 13th, 2014 at 6:11 pm

Viking: Hope those medals you mention are not the sort your friend Cunliffe claims were his fathers. My criticism of you was valid and still stands . . . imbecile!
==============================
Thanks IGM.
I guess you will never know what it takes to earn those medals. Armchair warrior that you are.

The Grandfather of the VC winner was a member of the Royal Artillery and fought in Crimea and Sevastopol.
Having served in those wars he then came to NZ and served in the RA here.
So a reasonable background to the futility of wars in that area.
Perhaps you should do a bit of reading and if you are that keen feel free to jump on a plane and head on over to join up some rag tag bunch of nut cases. It would be a lot like pissing in the wind but yours to enjoy.

Have the courage of your convictions and go tomorrow or forever shut your uneducated face.
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October 13, 2014 7:56pm
Don the Kiwi

Oh my !!

I upticked yoza. 😉
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October 13, 2014 7:56pm
nasska

….”I upticked yoza”…..

Seek forgiveness in the next world…..you won’t find it here! 🙂
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October 13, 2014 8:01pm
Griff

witness
from keas post above

admitted Aspie

I am well aware of my difference going so far as to post it in the comment above as a qualifier for the definition of sane

You have basically admitted that you debate in order to “fit in”.

yip 51% of the right wing posters on kb support my position on agw …Not

less scientific literacy

100% of scientific body’s of any note support my position on agw.

rational argument in your own words

,
The greenhouse effect is undisputed in the scientific literature and dates from the 1890s
The Greenhouse effect is a scientific theory that I have explained in simple English in my own words often on KB.

bolster your position with links to warmists sites.

yip the whole scientific establishment is warmest.. its virtually an undisputed fact so I actually have no choice .

You also admit attacking all I say, in spite of agreeing with me..

Where? I just posted that you agree with most of my positions!

rational postions

To go against the entire scientific establishment is the definition of irrational thought .
QED
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October 13, 2014 8:10pm
Kea

I just posted that you agree with most of my positions!

Griff, talk about an own goal ! 😆

If I agree with you… then you agree with me. Eg: we agree with each other.

Yet, you will invariably attack my comments. That my friend is what a real “Troll” does. All because I have you on a bit when you tell wee fibs about the weather.
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October 13, 2014 8:18pm
nasska

https://www.dropbox.com/s/k8nkli4bfskwa7j/Climate%20crap%208.jpg?dl=0
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October 13, 2014 8:23pm
Griff

😆
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October 13, 2014 8:24pm
Kea

nasska, I like to stick to the science 👿

Is there anything in the Qur’aan or Sunnah about global warming?

Does the science in Quran tell something about this?.

This hadeeth is a scientific miracle that describes a natural fact that was not understood by scientists until the late twentieth century, when it was proven by definitive evidence that the Arabian Peninsula was meadows and rivers in ancient times. Climate studies have also indicated that the arid desert is now on its way to becoming meadows and rivers again,…

http://islamqa.info/en/110197
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October 13, 2014 8:31pm
Shawn Herles

“Griff, as an “admitted Aspie” you are in no position to comment,”

On the contrary, aspies often have an ability to see through hypocrisy and bullshit. I don’t always agree with Griff, but he has vastly more integrity than you.

“You have basically admitted that you debate in order to “fit in”.”

Given that AGW is not a popular view here, and Griff defends it despite that, I think we can safely say that that comment is just plain stupid.

Most of your “arguments” depend a great deal on lying about other peoples views and motivations, which only proves how thin and dishonest they are.
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October 13, 2014 8:37pm
nasska

The desert blooms Kea…..Allah the Most Merciful & AGW be praised! 🙂
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October 13, 2014 8:38pm
Kea

Shawn,

Griff wants to identify with those brainy “scientists”. So he pretends to understand and agree with them in order to appear more knowledgeable than others. Any non-believer is personally attacked, as he lacks subject knowledge and can not debate.

Surely you, of all people, know how that works.
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October 13, 2014 8:47pm
Griff

I actually think that many would be surprised at how many actually are leaning towards the Aspie spectrum on kb.
I have noted at lest four who fit the criteria but Its a personal to choice expose yourself to possible derision so…
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October 13, 2014 8:51pm
Kea

nasska, yes indeed science is a wonderful thing. The bible is full of science too, and the lady who smells of frangipani reckons she can align my body with quantum dynamic crystals, all based on science.

The main thing is you tack/paste/paint/stick the word science in there somewhere. 😛

Edit: Griff I have never derided you for that, or for your admitted problems reading/writing, though I note others have. That is not my style. I have derided you for being wrong.
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October 13, 2014 8:51pm
nasska

Right up there with soothsaying & homeopathy Kea? 🙂
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October 13, 2014 8:55pm
Kea

nasska, yeah I really do not like the new age types and their mumbo jumbo much. At least they are too lazy and disorganised to start wars, unlike the more diligent desert cults who never seem to rest.
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October 13, 2014 9:02pm
Griff

reading/writing
Ah no kea I read at an incredible rate and my comprehension is near 100%
I had to do a speed reading course once
what a waste of time.
I have been “speed reading” since I was a baby.
my spelling and hand writing is crap
but the computer revolution has sorted that out
you have never proven my wrong you just play parrot chess .
http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/sotc/global/

Global Highlights

The combined average temperature across global land and ocean surfaces for August 2014 was record high for the month, at 0.75°C (1.35°F) above the 20th century average of 15.6°C (60.1°F), topping the previous record set in 1998.
The global land surface temperature was 0.99°C (1.78°F) above the 20th century average of 13.8°C (56.9°F), the second highest on record for August, behind 1998.
For the ocean, the August global sea surface temperature was 0.65°C (1.17°F) above the 20th century average of 16.4°C (61.4°F). This record high departure from average not only beats the previous August record set in 2005 by 0.08°C (0.14°F), but also beats the previous all-time record set just two months ago in June 2014 by 0.03°C (0.05°F).
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October 13, 2014 9:11pm
renderer

While it is easy to feel sorry for Penny or regard her as benign entertainment value. It is clear from a previously advised article in the Herald in March that Penny does not have the money to pay her rates.
If accepting that Penny is not paying as a protest it would seem prudent to have the money put aside in the event that she was taken to court.
It would seem that she never had any intention to pay her rates even if the council bowed to her ludicrous demand to account for all contractual spending.
In the same article Penny states that her only income is from a boarder. How then does she manage to attend conferences overseas and find the money for election deposits.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11221478
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October 13, 2014 9:12pm
Maggy Wassilieff

@ Kea… Once upon a time I was a good debater and made sure I never lost an argument with my peers. If I couldn’t win the argument with facts and clear logic, I’d resort to fudge and red herrings etc. .. One day one of my flatmates told me that I was a prick always trying to win an argument and not listening or carefully thinking about what others were trying to express.

I assume you have had an excellent education in a scientific field. Most commentators here on KB haven’t got that background. So how about cutting them a bit of slack? Surely between the few of us here that are scientists we can present ideas, information etc without putting down folks. Science information belongs to everyone… its not the preserve of the postdoc elite.
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October 13, 2014 9:21pm
Reid

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2788644/you-t-ignore-migration-historic-ukip-surge-mps-tell-cameron-miliband-wake-public-anger.html

Most people don’t know they tried to kill Nigel Farage. This is why.

He disrupts the plans.

He forces the idiots to stop listening to the violins leading them to their own deaths.

He’s got his faults.

He’s not perfect.

But unlike most of the idiots, at least he knows what’s going on and he does something about it.

And how long has it been in the EU Parliament exposing the naked emperors while the media looks the other way, while the unrestricted immigration courtesy of the evil ones wrecks the destruction of UK and EU society, while most of you munt on about how destructive it is, at one and the same time totally and completely – duh – failing to recognise just who it is whose been permitting it, for decades.

Why is that?

Why the fuck are many of you so fucking stupid that you can see what’s happening – at least, once it’s reached the final stages when its all too obvious and the damage has already been done – but even when you do arouse yourselves from your terminal slumber, you still, even now, completely and utterly fail to recognise just who the fuck has been doing it?

If anyone ever needed an indication that politics is a bullshit punch and judy show where both sides are wrong and march to a drum other than the one its own people think it marches to, it’s Euro immigration. Where the entire EU for decades, over left and right administrations across multiple “democracies” have been permitting it. Against the desire of their own people.

And yet even with this staring you fools right in the face in flaming letters a million feet high, with fireworks, even now, you morons pretend like braying donkeys that the only ones at fault aren’t those who let it happen. No. The ones at fault are the ones who are doing the very thing they were expected to do, when the ones who let it happen allowed it.

While the media stands silent.

Message?

Of course not.

Lesson?

Of course not.

It’s just a bunch of stuff that happened.

Nothing unusual.

Nothing wrong.

Just more of the same.

Hee Haw.
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October 13, 2014 9:22pm
Kea

Griff, I accept we disagree on the weather, but who doesn’t ? 😀

The thing is, it is outright trolling to attack a commentor because of their view on an unrelated topic. I even agree with some of the religious nuts on various things and even give Katie upticks.

Stay classy 🙂
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October 13, 2014 9:23pm
Kea

Reid, if you want to communicate with the sheeple you will need to consult Johnboy 🙄
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October 13, 2014 9:25pm
Lucia Maria

This probably the most excited that I’ve seen Reid get.
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October 13, 2014 9:34pm
Kea

Maggy Wassilieff, yes science does belong to everyone. But I am unsure why you addressed that to me, given I am the respondent of Griff’s attacks on my supposed lack of scientific literacy. It is rather odd behaviour on your part and suggests you are attempting to address something else.

Personally, I do not consider others accepting my view as a win. If that is the case you leave a debate with no more knowledge than you arrived with. It is only when you are proven wrong that you learn. Sadly for many on KB they fail the proof and evidence test, and resort to name calling and ad hominem attacks, albeit thinly disguised ones at times 😉
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October 13, 2014 9:34pm
Griff

The “weather” kea is not anything I have ever had a debate with you on .
Climate is another topic .
That you can not tell the difference shows what a foxtrot whiskey you are.
My amateur prognoses of your mental problems is robust according to the criteria outlined in dsm5 and I challenged you to find a professional opinion that differs from my assessment.
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October 13, 2014 9:37pm
Kea

Griff, you are happy to use the fact the Australian desert gets a bit hot and dry in summer and the hurricane belt gets hurricanes in the hurricane season, to support your doomsday climate predictions. Alarmists are the worst offenders of using weather to bolster their dire predictions.

I believe mans activities effect climate. I believe fossil fuels effect climate. I accept C02 is a contributing factor. All supported by science. What I disagree with is simply the predicted extent of the change. I see no rational reason to change that view given the hilariously inaccurate predictions made about today’s climate, compared with the reality.

Fossil fuels are not going to cause climate doomsday. There are variables the best scientists with the best computers can not get even close to factoring into the models. Leeching more money from the working masses in taxes is not going to effect climate one iota either.
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October 13, 2014 9:50pm
itstricky

Fossil fuels are not going to cause climate doomsday. There are variables the best scientists with the best computers can not get even close to factoring into the models. Leeching more money from the working masses in taxes is not going to effect climate one iota either.

You could have saved everyone time by writing “I’m an ostrich”

What’s that? You shit directly in your living room because unless you happen to bend over and lick it, it’s not going to cause you doomsday? Ahhhh, it’s all becoming clear now…
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October 13, 2014 9:55pm
Kea

ou shit directly in your living room because unless you happen to bend over and lick it, it’s not going to cause you doomsday? Ahhhh, it’s all becoming clear now…

Another erudite presentation of climate science from a resident Alarmist.

And to think some people are not convinced by such profound scientific truths 😆
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October 13, 2014 10:01pm
itstricky

Another erudite presentation of climate science from a resident Alarmist.

It doesn’t need to be any more, or less, scientific or specific.

May I remind you, that you, yourself, wrote:

I believe mans activities effect climate. I believe fossil fuels effect climate. I accept C02 is a contributing factor.

So basically, you can boil your argument down to “as long as I don’t piss tooooooooo much in my water supply, everything will be okay”

Proven by none other than your own scientific mind.

Probably quite difficult to argue with yourself. I, therefore, rest my case and hand it over to the jury (who, in case you didn’t get it, is you – being your peers. Given you wrote it in the first place)
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October 13, 2014 10:09pm
Maggy Wassilieff

@ Kea…. You are clever enough with words I am sure to figure out what I have written, but in case my meaning is unclear I will express my thoughts in another manner.
I enjoy reading many people’s comments on KB. Often I’m exposed to ideas/ information that surprise(s) me. I don’t get those little surprises at Sciblogs. Over there Its all boringly predictable in a yawningly aren’t we wonderful sort of way.
Lets not turn the scientific debates in KB into a win-lose between the PhDs and the non-scientists.
What may be blindingly obvious to some may not be so obvious to those who have never worked with experimental set-ups, manipulation of data, politicisation of science, etc. Some people pick up new ideas quickly, but most of us take time to rearrange our preconceptions and adopt new ideas. Go gently.
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October 13, 2014 10:22pm
Nostalgia-NZ

If sometimes a person had a barely contained ‘rage’ because others did not accept his or her ‘teachings’ that person might go on alpine runs to refresh, clear their mind, cleanse in a type of baptism of their unquestioned belief in themselves. It could be a sweet way to fall in love all over again. Nothing like personal romance for the lonely. Then return gently, to balance the books – using ingratiation, building allies with a little sweet talking and familiarity.

After that straight back to getting that round peg in a square hole.

More fun that hitting your thumb with a hammer
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October 13, 2014 10:55pm
Kea

Maggy Wassilieff, you are such a gentle soul, but these lot are savage and rip into sweet and inquisitive alpine parrots like rabid Honey Badgers on meth.

Believe me I have tried gentler appeals to reason, but that just seems to embolden them towards even greater intemperance. 😉
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October 13, 2014 11:20pm
Manolo

Here we go again with stephie’s newly-found hero: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/hillary-clinton-gets-heckled/
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October 14, 2014 7:04am

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