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October 11, 2014 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 11 October 2014

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General Debate

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David Garrett

Griff: that’s the trouble with Progressivism…very difficult to reverse the changes they make…the reality is no government will ever reverse “marriage equality”

Reid: You’re not only a loony but a deeply offensive one…and very brave, hiding behind your pseud…
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October 11, 2014 9:47pm
nasska

….”Colin Craig: Um that’s not a statement that I am making. I know that people get quite interested in my own conservative views; my beliefs; that’s certainly not a policy of the party and it’s not something I would say.””….

Colin was well counselled about getting himself hung by even hinting that the NZ Conservative Party was a front for the Godstruck Griff. You couldn’t get a peep out of him on gay marriage or any other Xtian hobbyhorse.

He’s a Prime export grade religious nut who remains determined to take us back to the hell of the fifties.
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October 11, 2014 9:51pm
Griff

Shawn you believe
I dont believe…. in fifty years never have had an inkling of faith in mythical gods .
Despite being baptized an Anglican and going to Sunday school as a kid
you dont get to tell me how I think mate its my head and you are incapable of divining its content.
Do not bother to say you will pray when the shit hits the fan
Ive been there more than once and concentrate on sorting it out for myself not gibbering to mythical god/gods.
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October 11, 2014 9:54pm
nasska

https://www.dropbox.com/s/o1we99dzfwm8wcf/Prayer%201.jpg?dl=0
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October 11, 2014 9:56pm
Shawn Herles

“I dont believe…. in fifty years never have had an inkling of faith in mythical gods.”

How do you know?

Scientists discover that atheists might not exist, and that’s not a joke.

“WHILE MILITANT ATHEISTS like Richard Dawkins may be convinced God doesn’t exist, God, if he is around, may be amused to find that atheists might not exist.

Cognitive scientists are becoming increasingly aware that a metaphysical outlook may be so deeply ingrained in human thought processes that it cannot be expunged.

While this idea may seem outlandish—after all, it seems easy to decide not to believe in God—evidence from several disciplines indicates that what you actually believe is not a decision you make for yourself. Your fundamental beliefs are decided by much deeper levels of consciousness, and some may well be more or less set in stone.

This line of thought has led to some scientists claiming that “atheism is psychologically impossible because of the way humans think,” says Graham Lawton, an avowed atheist himself, writing in the New Scientist. “They point to studies showing, for example, that even people who claim to be committed atheists tacitly hold religious beliefs, such as the existence of an immortal soul.”

This shouldn’t come as a surprise, since we are born believers, not atheists, scientists say. Humans are pattern-seekers from birth, with a belief in karma, or cosmic justice, as our default setting. “A slew of cognitive traits predisposes us to faith,” writes Pascal Boyer in Nature, the science journal, adding that people “are only aware of some of their religious ideas”.”

http://www.science20.com/writer_on_the_edge/blog/scientists_discover_that_atheists_might_not_exist_and_thats_not_a_joke-139982
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October 11, 2014 9:58pm
Dennis Horne

Man, evolved without design or purpose, feels his imperfections, inadequacies, emptiness; seeks friendship, intimacy and knowledge to fill the void, or drink, drugs, power or gods.
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October 11, 2014 9:58pm
Reid

Reid: You’re not only a loony but a deeply offensive one…and very brave, hiding behind your pseud…

David as I’ve said before, my name is Reid Booth and I live in Hamilton and I used to live in Eastbourne.

Like I said, I’m not the one who will do that to you and your loved ones, I’m simply the one whose telling you its coming.

Do you think what I said above is happening right now to the poor people who have been captured by the ISIS forces?

Of course it is.

You seem to be missing the FACT that the same people I’ve been talking about above and their descendants are also running ISIS and do you think they give a shit?

What amazes me about people like you is that people like you should know that movements like ISIS need support. So where the fuck do people like you hallucinate they are getting it from? Do people like you REALLY hallucinate that 30,000 Iraqi troops in Mosul just “melt away” LEAVING ALL THEIR WEAPONS.

????

Do people like you REALLY hallucinate worldwide media reported FACTS like that really don’t mean anything?

Grow up David.

Grow a pair.

Grow a brain mate.

Do whatever it takes but FFS stop fooling yourself.
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October 11, 2014 10:02pm
Griff

Actually I was only aware of that slant on the cnuts from nz conservative as after telling red for months that Colin and the cnuts party was lefty and him insisting he was a fully baked conservonuter he finally agreed with me by linking to the New Zealand conservative site agreeing with my opinion of Colins economic policies being left of center as well as being a closet social prog
and yes hes a godwhacked nutter
a very confused one
and also a authoritarian hence why red loves him.
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October 11, 2014 10:02pm
nasska

….”seeks friendship, intimacy and knowledge to fill the void, or drink, drugs, power or gods.”….

I gave up the grog about fifteen years back & can’t be bothered with power Dennis but what sort of drugs are on offer? 🙂
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October 11, 2014 10:03pm
Shawn Herles

“You seem to be missing the FACT that the same people I’ve been talking about above and their descendants are also running ISIS and do you think they give a shit?”

Any serious evidence for that “fact” Reid?
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October 11, 2014 10:05pm
Harriet

“….I suspect that moderate and pragmatic conservatives were happier with Key, who is a safe pair of hands, and in some areas, more conservative than he is given credit for….”

It’s because he is too spineless to say anything. Same with the rest of the cabinet.

There is nothing wrong with parliment debating things robustly – it’s what it is there for.

The problem with parliment is that several years ago women said ‘it’s too mean’ – from memory I think a female MP by the name of Fletcher even quit because of it. Now it has been toned down to being a place of stupidity.

And now parliment has been reduced to not saying anything that could be taken as ‘offensive’ — hence the popularity of minority MP’s objecting to any unfavourable point said in parliment .And also Keys’ idea of major use of ‘select committees’ – a filter for PC parliment.
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October 11, 2014 10:06pm
Dennis Horne

Drugs? In my case it’s knowledge I crave. That’s why I read KiwiBlog. A forlorn hope, perhaps. 🙂 🙂 🙂
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October 11, 2014 10:07pm
nasska

Colin’s policies were all over the place in the manner of a mad woman’s proverbial Griff…..they seemed aimed at a pool of voters there & another pocket over here. What they were formed for & advocated for were crackpot conservative social policies.

Everything else was secondary.
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October 11, 2014 10:09pm
Nostradamus

Griff:

cnuts from nz conservative
cnuts party
fully baked conservonuter
left of center
closet social prog
godwhacked nutter
very confused
authoritarian

Goodness, Griff, why don’t you tell us what you really think?
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October 11, 2014 10:09pm
nasska

….”In my case it’s knowledge I crave”….

Different strokes for different folks. 🙂
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October 11, 2014 10:10pm
Shawn Herles

I don’t really take Redbaiter’s claim to be a conservative very seriously. He is certainly not representing the conservatism of Burke and Kirk.

I think Red is just very angry, and politics is a filter for that. And I agree with Griff that he is rabidly authoritarian
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October 11, 2014 10:12pm
The Right Way

I don’t really understand why the use of obscene language masquerading as something else is allowed on this blog.
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October 11, 2014 10:12pm
Griff

This line of thought has led to some , ~~scientists~~ claiming that “atheism is psychologically impossible

“Psychology is not a science as I would define the term Shawn
I am not alone is this judgment

http://www.arachnoid.com/psychology/

At this point it must be clear to the intelligent reader that clinical psychology can make virtually any claim and offer any kind of therapy, because there is no practical likelihood of refutation – no clear criteria to invalidate a claim. This, in turn, is because human psychology is not a science, it is very largely a belief system similar to religion.

Like religion, human psychology has a dark secret at its core – it contains within it a model for correct behavior, although that model is never directly acknowledged. Buried within psychology is a nebulous concept that, if it were to be addressed at all, would be called “normal behavior.” But do try to avoid inquiring directly into this normal behavior among psychologists – nothing is so certain to get you diagnosed as having an obsessive disorder.

In the same way that everyone is a sinner in religion's metaphysical playground, everyone is mentally ill in psychology's long, dark hallway – no one is truly “normal.” This means everyone needs psychological treatment. This means psychologists and psychiatrists are guaranteed lifetime employment, although that must surely be a coincidence rather than a dark motive.

But this avoids a more basic problem with the concept of “normal behavior.” The problem with establishing such a standard, whether one does this directly as religion does, or indirectly as psychology does, is that the activity confronts, and attempts to contradict, something that really is a scientific theory – evolution. In evolution, through the mechanism of natural selection, organisms adapt to the conditions of their environment, and, because the environment keeps changing, there is no particular genotype that can remain viable in the long term.

The scientific evidence for evolution is very strong, and evolution's message is that only flexible and adaptable organisms survive in a world of constant change. Reduced to everyday, individual terms, it means no single behavioral pattern can for all time be branded “correct” or “normal.” This is the core reason religion fails to provide for real human needs (which wasn't its original purpose anyway), and this failing is shared by psychology – they both put forth a fixed behavioral model in a constantly changing world.

The present atmosphere among many psychologists and psychiatrists can only be described as panic. This panic is clearly shown in the rapid, seemingly purposeful destruction of the DSM, the field's “bible,” as a legitimate diagnostic tool (because if everything is a mental illness, then nothing is). This panic arises in part from a slow realization that many conditions formerly thought to be mental conditions amenable to psychological treatment, turn out to be organic conditions treatable with drugs (or, like homosexuality, turn out to be conditions not appropriate to any kind of treatment). Further, many traditional clinical practices have been shown to be ineffectual and/or indistinguishable from ordinary experience or nothing at all.

In the final analysis, the present state of psychology is the best answer to the original inquiry about whether it is scientific, because if human psychology were as grounded in science as many people believe, many of its historical and contemporary assertions would have been falsified by its own theoretical and clinical failures, and it would be either replaced by something more scientifically rigorous, or simply cast aside for now.

But this is all hypothetical, because psychology and psychiatry have never been based in science, and therefore are free of the constraints placed on scientific theories. This means these fields will prevail far beyond their last shred of credibility, just as religions do, and they will be propelled by the same energy source — belief. That pure, old-fashioned fervent variety of belief, unsullied by reason or evidence.
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October 11, 2014 10:24pm
cha

And also Keys’ idea of major use of ‘select committees’ – a filter for PC parliment.

Stupid prick.
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October 11, 2014 10:25pm
Griff

nostra my English written she is let me down sometimes I learned in only kb times

Colin is
a godwhacked nutter.
a very confused one.

His policy is not particularly right wing just populist pap with lots of meaningless puffery like “family values”. whose family? my former lesbian neighbors? Graham Carphils ? the Masons family’s?
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October 11, 2014 10:34pm
Harriet

“….I think Red is just very angry, and politics is a filter for that. And I agree with Griff that he is rabidly authoritarian…”

I don’t think Red is like you suggest. Someone has to stand the ground. Someone has to stand for Liberty.

The US is a Constitutional Republic with a democratic mechanism, and that gives people liberty.

I like to help people – but I don’t like the government saying “you HAVE to help people and you HAVE to do it this way.”

No one likes paying taxes to bludgers – most people would prefer to give them the lawns to mow instead. But government won’t let you – you have to pay instead for a ‘lawn mower businessmen who pays taxes and fills in forms for people in government to read so that they have a job, and the government can collect tax revenue and re-distribute it – to the young bloke who could mow my lawns!!!

I’d rather give some kid $20 to mow the lawns with my mower and petrol than $40 to others who don’t have a valid reason why they should be FUCKEN PAID THAT. Hair dressing is the same. Building houses too. Why ? Because we have a civil court system that deals with matters going wrong. And insurance. We don’t then need an excess of regulations or public servants.

There is no dignity in that for the givers and the takers – just government staffers, politics and the media. It’s pathetic.

National is just like Labour – they make people do stuff that isn’t best for most concerned.

Sure, you can’t end socialism overnight – but Key ain’t even on the path.
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October 11, 2014 10:42pm
Griff

has to stand for Liberty.

That is us liberals harry not you conservatives
the liberal central belief is freedom for the individual
Conservative central belief is social control and adherence of their nominated norm.
hence liberal is towards freedom and liberty: conservative towards social norms and control.
You quoted The US is a Constitutional Republic with a democratic mechanism, and that gives people liberty.
The writers of the usa constitution were liberals it was and still is a liberal document .
hence it very carefully separates the church from the state and pushes freedom from unreasonable constraint.
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October 11, 2014 10:51pm
Lucia Maria

David Garrett,

Lucia: I have just scrolled back through the thread (been doing other things) and noticed that you don’t say whether or not you have considered Holy Orders…but lots of your mates have given by question a downtick!

Go have a look at my comment at 9:08pm.

Edited to add: Whoops, I note that your comment was at 6:58, not 48. I was wondering where it had gone!
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October 11, 2014 11:06pm
Nostalgia-NZ

With less than one hour to go, I note the often popular Fran O’Sullivan’s column hasn’t made it into print here today. She presented the ‘idea’, as simple as it may seem, that the most expedient way to get to the heart of the campaign against Feeley would be to require Slater, Ogden and Graham to reveal who paid them ‘for apparently trying to fit up’ Feeley – and why they obliged. She quoted from emails sent to her by Ogden that showed there was a ‘mission’ afoot. I guess a person is only on a mission to gain something and I think that is what Fran was pointing out, revealing what the mission was and for whose benefit is something in the public interest – along with who rawshark might be of course. Need to balance these things out or people might aimlessly wander about chanting mantras.
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October 11, 2014 11:14pm
itstricky

With less than one hour to go, I note the often popular Fran O’Sullivan’s column hasn’t made it into print here today.

Meh, they just ignore things like that. And it’s been proven by the 1 down vote you have already. May as well rename Kiwiblog “Natblog”

Asked an innocent question about policies that Nats had introduced to reduce the inflation on food. Got 17 down votes and no replies. It goes so far as in, you get a couple of far righties downing on Key and they’ll down vote them as well. What ever you do don’t question The Key, man, don’t question The Key.
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October 11, 2014 11:28pm
Nostalgia-NZ

I like thinking about why Odgers deliberately dropped Judith Collins in it when they were on the same side. Classic really.
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October 11, 2014 11:48pm
Gulag1917

Friends of Rape: How Feminist Liberals Help Sex-Crime to Flourish
http://www.theoccidentalobserver.net/2014/09/rape-rites-how-feminist-liberals-help-sex-crime-to-flourish/
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October 12, 2014 12:25am
IC5000

“Nostalgia-NZ (5,153 comments) says:
October 11th, 2014 at 11:48 pm
I like thinking about why Odgers deliberately dropped Judith Collins in it when they were on the same side. Classic really.”

Collateral damage. Well not really, she was way off the reservation and had to be put down for the good of the National Party.
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October 12, 2014 5:13am
IGM

Interesting article on Stuff regarding our Muslim brothers, if one can ignore the slant of the left-wing anti-freedom scribes. These bastards have as much self entitlement as any Labour/Green loser, and no two ways about it, they are dangerous and should be repatriated immediately. We don’t need them, and sure as hell don’t want any more of the murderous mongrels.
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October 12, 2014 6:56am

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