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September 6, 2014 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 6 September 2014

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General Debate

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SPC

nasska, all Adventists, of whatever denomination, believe in a god that kills off their enemies for them. Judgemental vendetta politics is right up their alley.

http://thestandard.org.nz/on-cameron-slater-and-mental-illness/
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September 6, 2014 8:34pm
Don the Kiwi

Alright you rich pricks who have Sky.

I’m going to have to watch the delayed broadcast because I’m one of the poverty stricken 😉

But I’ll take both your prejudices into account – 1 for, 1 against.
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September 6, 2014 8:34pm
Zapper

God help me.

No I don’t BB. The refs have destroyed us in many of our last ten tests and we won them anyway. Except on one occasion when we drew.

Go look at that Irish test that we still won despite no breakdown rules being enforced for the Irish. But you can’t see it.

Okay, so you’ll either say you hit a nerve, I’m a child, I’m blind….what else have you got up your sleeve.

PS Even as a Cantab, I very much enjoyed Auckland vs Wellington today. I guess the ref cost you that game too.
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September 6, 2014 8:36pm
Zapper

Oh no, the ref scored again!
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September 6, 2014 8:36pm
big bruv

Don

You’re not missing much mate. The game is tedious and predictable. Mind you, 16 v 15 always is.
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September 6, 2014 8:38pm
Zapper

Actually, now I understand this lashing out in anger with no logic. Wellington might well be relegated. Ouch.
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September 6, 2014 8:38pm
ross411

Mike (434 comments) says:
September 6th, 2014 at 8:06 pm
I wouldn’t vote for Craig in a million years but i must admit that he comes across as a likeable guy in personality. He fought to get his place, and once there he was polite and respectful. Quite simply, he looks out of place among those other experienced leaders, and it reflects well on him.

I agree. He came across well, even if I found his referendum nonsense unappetising.

My primary problem with it is a more reasonable version of what Hosking said. That if the portion of New Zealand who get to push something on the rest is a minority of the whole, then it is kind of ridiculous. Of course Hosking’s 3% is not a reasonable number. Personally, I think the winning side of a referendum should require more than 66% of the population behind it, not just the participants.
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September 6, 2014 8:38pm
Zapper

The good news is the 15 are winning anyway. Even without a decent kicker. Get well DC
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September 6, 2014 8:39pm
Reid

Reid, is it playing the game dirty or the bluster about getting ones enemies that you find attractive in Cameron Slater’s style?

It appears to me he has daddy issues – wants to be someone who has and exerts power and influence like daddy did.

I am surprised that anyone supposedly into either truth or Christian values finds anything remotely impressive about Slater’s operation.

SPC, I defend anyone whose had a hard deal. I’d defend Wussel if I thought he’d had a hard deal, I don’t care.

I’m a big supporter of Cam and I always have been. This doesn’t mean I agree with everything he does. For instance I myself wouldn’t have represented Hotchins in public relations even for eleventy gajillion dollars let alone what he offered to Cam, simply because they are some places I personally won’t go. But it’s not illegal to choose to represent a scumbag if you’re in a profession that does those things and it’s not even questionable or immoral. Sanctimonious idiots who can’t think might take that view but they’re morons. They’re the same kind of fools who hallucinate the dude who shot those innocents in Ashburton doesn’t deserve legal representation and the lawyer who takes the case is a scumbag. I’ve got no truck with morons who think like that and I’m not saying you’re one because I know you’re not but I guarantee you a few here are and there will be many in public land and even in the media who will think like that, too.

But they’re fucked in the head.

What I like about Cam is, IF you understand how he thinks, then you know what you’re going to get, and you get it in spades, with no holds barred, and no nancy fucking around.

I’m disappointed in the Hotchins thing because that was underhand in that he didn’t tell us what he was doing and of course it puts his future advocacy of like causes under the microscope, like his thing about teachers. I don’t care about his advocacy for Hotchins but I think it was underhand and he will suffer for a time in his credibility for that and I’m fairly sure he’ll learn a thing or two about the art of communication from that episode.

But I don’t care about it because I don’t care what Cam says, I don’t care what DPF says, I don’t care what anyone says, about anything. I don’t take my cues from anyone but my own mind and I sift information and make my own judgements and I’m happy to report my view of Hotchins as a complete arsehole never shifted one iota so my approach seems to work.

It’s in-for-mation, in-formation. That’s what Cam gives. And he gives it in spades. Unlike other media who have lost their way. The NYT Masthead “All the News Fit to Print” has bypassed the entire MSM these days both here and globally. These days, the MSM is a plaything of people like Murdoch globally and junior snot-nosed politically fanatical sub-editors and journalists and lazy managers who want audience and don’t care about the content and can’t be arsed doing their job which is what was so well put in that NYT masthead.

But Cam gives that and if he’s a bit rough around the edges, I’m an adult, I’ve a got a 3-digit IQ and I can sort the wheat from the chaff. I just wish every other journalist acted like Cam does in terms of publishing “All the News Fit to Print.” If they did, this country would be a much better place.
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September 6, 2014 8:40pm
Zapper

Barrett is struggling. Fantastic runner, and runs rings around tired teams when he comes on after 60, but some way to go to be a starting 10.
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September 6, 2014 8:41pm
big bruv

Zapper

“The refs have destroyed us”….You’re a member of the NZ team?

I was about to say that there is no hope for you if you are seriously of the opinion that international ref’s treat the NZ team with anything other than reverential awe. But then I noticed that you are a self confessed Cantab, given that I can now understand why you have made such laughable statements this evening.

I suppose you are one of those chaps who thought that Ruben Thorne was a good NZ captain.
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September 6, 2014 8:43pm
cha

Not a jock, born and bred Kiwi. One who is deeply ashamed…

Hi David.
/
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September 6, 2014 8:45pm
Zapper

Is that okay with you? A head butt on McCaw?

Rhetorical, I know foul play is okay with you as long as it goes one way.

If you seriously think the refs have favoured NZ in the last year, you know less about rugby than you know about cricket.

At least your ignorance is consistent.
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September 6, 2014 8:47pm
RF

BB. 7.46pm.

Yes.. Monk the spokesperson. It’s was a very sad event however if you are familiar with the West Coast mining industry you will know that not all the blame can be attributed to those running the operation. A number of serious safety rules were broken by miners working underground. I have been told that this would result in instant dismissal in an Aussie mine.
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September 6, 2014 8:47pm
big bruv

I now note that the NZ team has resorted to foul play in an effort to stop the captain from being shown up (again) by his opposite number.
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September 6, 2014 8:47pm
Zapper

Man the ref was awesome there, keeping the ball in from an Argie penalty
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September 6, 2014 8:50pm
big bruv

RF

So Monk has enjoyed the largess of the government, the generosity of the people of NZ and now wants to shit on the very people who helped him, and his town out in their time of need.

Yep, sounds like a typical lefty.
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September 6, 2014 8:50pm
Zapper

Good scrum Argies. All Blacks went in soft and paid for it
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September 6, 2014 8:51pm
Zapper

big bruv (13,614 comments) says:
September 6th, 2014 at 8:50 pm

Well said BB. Stick to what you know about
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September 6, 2014 8:52pm
Zapper

Ouch. That looked like a try to Argentina. Makes up for the one they robbed us of in the third minute
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September 6, 2014 8:53pm
big bruv

Zapper

Frankly I am shocked at just how easy it is to get under your skin. I do appreciate that you are at a disadvantage in being a Cantab but you really need to be able to look at the game with both eyes open.

Now, did you just note how the Argies were robbed by the ref in not awarding an obvious try?

Are you still going to tell me that the ref’s are dead set against the team you told me you play for?

Oh, and do you care to answer the Ruben Thorne question?
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September 6, 2014 8:54pm
Zapper

BB – see above. That’s one try each way the ref has messed up. But I’m not blind.
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September 6, 2014 8:55pm
big bruv

Zapper

NZ team collapse the scrum, ref ignores the obvious penalty.
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September 6, 2014 8:56pm
big bruv

Zapper

You are blind if you think the first one was a certain try to the team you play for.
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September 6, 2014 8:57pm
Zapper

Thorne should never have been captain. He was worthy of a few caps. Who would you have had as captain at that time? We didn’t have a plethora of leaders.
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September 6, 2014 8:57pm
Zapper

BB – He just gave them a penalty. You’re embarrassing yourself.
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September 6, 2014 8:58pm
nasska

SPC

Whale’s never hidden his battles with mental illness. In fact IMHO it was creating the WOBH persona that pulled him out of the downward cycle. He didn’t have far to go before he reached rock bottom & he showed a shit load of guts & determination to pull himself back.

As to his modus operandi…..he never pretended to be other than an attack blogger & he goes where the MSM refuse to tread. That said, by delegating moderation to those he has chosen the site has become an echo chamber for sycophants.

By removing meaningful debate & disagreement from his blog he has ensured its eventual failure.
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September 6, 2014 8:59pm
Zapper

Thank god we have someone who can kick a goal. Oh, he’s a Cantab
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September 6, 2014 9:01pm
big bruv

Zapper

Thorne was never worthy of a cap let alone being made captain. The most obvious choice at the time was Umaga.

As for the penalty, well given that the team you play for infringed three times he had little option. The difference is of course that had it been the other way round the Argies would have been penalised the first time.

Oh, and for Don, the scrum score is 5-0 to the Argies.
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September 6, 2014 9:02pm
SPC

nasska and reid, there is an ocean of difference between the sermon on the mount and the persona of the attack blogger.

Also between the crusader with integrity and being someone profiting from their media position and or operating as a partisan of the establishment, political and economic.
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September 6, 2014 9:05pm
big bruv

Zapper

Have you heard what the “darkie” quota is for next years Crusaders yet? Will it be the normal three or will they decide on four in an attempt to show that you are not all stone age knuckle draggers in Christchurch?
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September 6, 2014 9:05pm
Zapper

Don – note that BB will give every scrum to the Argies. One of the scrums he gave to them, we got a tighthead and scored a try!

Classic.

Umaga was absolutely woeful post 2004 and should have been dropped (as he dropped the ball every second time he touched it) well before he retired. At least he stayed on long enough to destroy O’Driscoll. He should have been suspended for 6 months for that.

Oh, All Blacks win another scrum penalty. Ref 2 metres away should have referred it to BB’s couch
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September 6, 2014 9:06pm
Zapper

big bruv (13,619 comments) says:
September 6th, 2014 at 9:05 pm

Yawn. Seriously? That’s all you’ve got?
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September 6, 2014 9:07pm
big bruv

Zapper

It’s a serious question. It is well known that the Crusaders will never have more than a token amount of ‘darkies’ in their side as their fans will just not accept it.
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September 6, 2014 9:11pm
Zapper

But just to indulge your crazy theories. I don’t know how the Crusaders set up their squad. 7 titles suggest they might be doing okay. How many have the Hurricanes won so far? Or has the ref cost you 7 titles?

Yep, a team who wins more titles than anyone else obviously must be excluding good players for reasons of race. And yet still win 7 titles.

Totally plausible theory 🙂
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September 6, 2014 9:11pm
nasska

SPC

There’s little evidence that the holding of religious beliefs necessarily prevents a person from acting like an arsehole. I admit that after shaking hands with a Godbotherer I count my fingers & check that the grandkids haven’t been molested.

It seems a little incongruous but there we have it. 🙂
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September 6, 2014 9:11pm
SPC

nasska, in Slater’s case having to sell the home after losing income insurance (depression after a business failure) and going onto the SB probably resulted in a resort to realpolitik in making money to provide for the family – developing the mean and cynical to be a winner persona.
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September 6, 2014 9:18pm
big bruv

Zapper

The ‘darkie’ quota is a fact. Numerous people involved in the game have confirmed it. I have seen first hand how Cantab crowds react to people of brown skin, it is nothing short of sickening.

Did you note how the NZ player got away with the illegal shoulder charge?
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September 6, 2014 9:19pm
Harriet

“….I admit that after shaking hands with a Godbotherer I count my fingers & check that the grandkids haven’t been molested…..”

Clearly your grandkids would then be home schooled – given that teachers CURRENTLY offend at higher rates than priests DID.
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September 6, 2014 9:20pm
Zapper

BB, you are a liar and you know it.

Also saw how the All Black had his arms out.

But I guess the ref scored 4 tries to nil. Well played ref.
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September 6, 2014 9:23pm
big bruv

Zapper

The truth might be painful but that does not mean it should not be told.

Oh, and did you notice who was the first hand the ref went looking to shake at the end of the game?
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September 6, 2014 9:24pm
big bruv

Harriet

Are you really suggesting that the Catholic Church is no longer involved in child rape?
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September 6, 2014 9:26pm
Zapper

Yep, good point. The ref won that game easily. 4 tries to nil. And the ref won it…

You’re a caricature. I assume you feel the same way about Cunliffe that I do, but maybe you understand him? Because you are just as good at denial and obfuscation as he is.

Have a Scotch old boy. Tough night for you with a ref winning 4 tries to nil.
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September 6, 2014 9:27pm
nasska

….”developing the mean and cynical to be a winner persona”…..

You’re probably not far off the money SPC. It is also possible that the actual illness permanently affected the man….he’s admitted to having little empathy which may be a clue to the way he goes after people.

Much is made of whether he has been paid for his efforts……even if that is the case I doubt that it would be as high on his list of motives as some think.
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September 6, 2014 9:28pm
nasska

….”Clearly your grandkids would then be home schooled – given that teachers CURRENTLY offend at higher rates than priests DID.”…..

You have developed an attack reflex since your days as an altar boy Harriet. I was thinking of Graham Capill & he was protestant. 🙂
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September 6, 2014 9:32pm
Nostradamus

Nasska:

“I have to forgive my pervert husband”

CONVICTED child rapist and disgraced ex-Christian Heritage party head Graham Capill’s wife says she’s finally found the inner strength to speak out about “the dark secret” that threatened to tear her family apart.

Talking publicly for the first time since her husband was jailed in 2005, Judith Capill told Sunday News that through “the power of the Scriptures” and her devotion to God she had managed to “forgive” the father of her 10 children for his violation of three young girls.
…
The hurt that Capill inflicted on his victims, all under the age of 12, was outlined by Judge Robert Kerr at Christchurch District Court in July 2005, when Capill was sentenced to seven years for rape, three years for unlawful sexual connection, to be served concurrently, and two years for indecent assaults.
…

Isn’t “forgiveness” a wonderful virtue?
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September 6, 2014 9:36pm
nasska

I would be more impressed if one of the kids had forgiven him Nostra.
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September 6, 2014 9:40pm
Nostradamus

I see we have some downtickers who defend kiddy-fiddling.

What delightful chaps you are.

Come out into the light!
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September 6, 2014 9:43pm
nasska

https://www.dropbox.com/s/gw48cs38vrlrl84/Wankstain%2013.jpg?dl=0
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September 6, 2014 9:44pm
Harriet

“…..Harriet

Are you really suggesting that the Catholic Church is no longer involved in child rape?….”

No. And for the record, most sex offences were never to do with children – but young males.

Catholic celebacy plays no part whatsoever in relation to the abuse of children/adolescents.

As nearly all male teachers who have been convicted of sexual offences were married. While not one Catholic Priest was Married.

Male teachers offend at higher rates due to the fact that all Catholic Priests are male – while most teachers are female.

Therefor, married male men should not ever be employed as teachers – if child/adolescent safety is of concern.

Children would be far safer being taught by celebate Catholic Priests than married males.

That’s the truth Bigot Bruv. Suck that up!
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September 6, 2014 9:44pm
Griff

Actually harry they did not
The figure quoted for teachers is actually similar for priests convicted of sexual abuse
The one for teachers I have seen linked to on here is a femnazi figure that includes sexist remarks and other modernist rubbish
The figure for priest not convicted is…..
Well who knows other than the church and they will not release details will they
Hows that filthy ex catholic priest who is to be deported for sex crimes still hiding behind the churches skirts?
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September 6, 2014 9:50pm
Harriet

Griff#

“…The figure quoted for teachers is actually similar for priests convicted of sexual abuse…”

Check it up as you will find they have included female teachers. They should not be included as there are no female Catholic Priests.

There are very few male teachers in NZ compared to female ones – moreso in primary.

Or do you want to exclude all priests who were not teachers?

That makes the Church look even better.

But the MSM won’t let the facts get in the way of profits. — The children really don’t matter do they?
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September 6, 2014 9:54pm
big bruv

Harriet

“Catholic celibacy plays no part whatsoever in relation to the abuse of children/adolescents.”

I’m sorry, that statement is a blatant lie. The very fact that the Catholic church (and religion in general) has such a stupid view on matter sexual is the very reason these men commit such appalling crimes.
It is also worth remembering the thousands of horror stories that have been told at how many kids suffered at the hands of sexually repressed spinsters who took what can only be described as perverted pleasure at the many beatings they handed out to kids.

Celibacy is the main reason the Catholic church has such a shameful record when it comes to child abuse.

“Children would be far safer being taught by celebate Catholic Priests than married males.”

The evidence Harriet does not support your lie. Clearly one of the most dangerous things you can do is leave your children in the care of a Catholic priest or a nun.
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September 6, 2014 9:55pm
Nostradamus

Harriet:

What do you make of this story?

Child abuse claims in Victoria since 1996 have cost the Catholic Church more than $34 million, an inquiry has heard.

The Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to Child Sexual Abuse is investigating the church’s so-called Melbourne Response to allegations of child sexual abuse by its clergy.
…
Ms Furness said Melbourne Archdiocese data revealed that 351 complaints had been made under the Melbourne Response scheme since it began in 1996.

“Of these complaints, 326 were upheld by an independent commissioner, nine were not upheld and 16 are currently defined as being undetermined,” she said.

“The undetermined claims are either dormant, ongoing, the complainant is deceased, or the complainant is described as considering civil proceedings.”

That looks to me like a public relations nightmare for the Catholic Church.

And bear in mind, also, that the $34 million figure was based on a $75,000 compensation cap (originally $50,000).
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September 6, 2014 9:56pm
Griff

Show me the money apologist
to say that its acceptable for the holders of moral right the churches priesthood to have a similar rate as teachers is massively missing the point
No better than anyone else you dont get to preach morals at us
let he who has not sinned and all that.
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September 6, 2014 9:57pm
nasska

https://www.dropbox.com/s/4mee6ecs7x39gdk/camp.jpg?dl=0
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September 6, 2014 9:58pm
Griff

In a statement read out by Archbishop Silvano Maria Tomasi in September 2009, the Holy See stated “We know now that in the last 50 years somewhere between 1.5% and 5% of the Catholic clergy has been involved in sexual abuse cases”, adding that this figure was comparable with that of other groups and denominations.

“”When Jesus said, ‘Suffer the little children, come unto me,’ that’s not what he was talking about.
—George Carlin
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September 6, 2014 10:02pm
Harriet

Nostradamus#

I’m not saying it is a nightmare. I’m not saying it didn’t happen. And I certainly ain’t making excuses – or blame shifting.

Catholic Priests are guilty. And the Catholic Church did shield some. They mey well still do.

I am addressing the fact they they all did happen [the one’s convicted – and the one’s upheld at the commission].

What I am saying is that male school teachers offend at higher rates. And nearly all were Married.

If child safety is of concern – then why are married male teachers – with high offending rates – given a near free pass by the MSM.

Here’s the answer:

Priests were employed by the Catholic Church – a private charity.

Married males were employed by the State – and offended at a higher rate!!!!!

Where were the State’s systems?

The Royal Commission isn’t over. 😎
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September 6, 2014 10:08pm
Harriet

Nostradamus#

I’m not saying it is a nightmare. I’m not saying it didn’t happen. And I certainly ain’t making excuses – or blame shifting.

Catholic Priests are guilty. And the Catholic Church did shield some. They mey well still do.

I am addressing the fact they they all did happen [the one’s convicted – and the one’s upheld at the commission].

What I am saying is that male school teachers offend at higher rates. And nearly all were Married.

If child safety is of concern – then why are married male teachers – with high offending rates – given a near free pass by the MSM.

Here’s the answer:

Priests were employed by the Catholic Church – a private charity.

Married males were employed by the State – and offended at probably the same rate!!!!!

Where were the State’s systems?

The Royal Commission isn’t over. 😎
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September 6, 2014 10:10pm
Sublime

Bring back Cory Jane! 😀
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September 6, 2014 10:28pm
starboard

..wheres that pillow biter scott chris..
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September 6, 2014 10:55pm
OneTrack

Pete – “but the parties will be doing their best to avoid having the campaign hijacked – except for those looking for a Hail Mary.”

Like Labour, the Greens, Mana, Internet, Winston, ….?
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September 6, 2014 11:02pm
publicwatchdog

John Key claims the public have moved on from dirty politics – well he would say that – wouldn’t he?

I call that ‘wishful thinking’.

Penny Bright
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September 7, 2014 1:28am
Southern Raider

What the fuck is ACT doing. One of their candidates Sean Fitzpatrick has aligned himself with that tosser Dunne, Haire, Minto etc in signing the BDS pledge. Check out NBR for details
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September 7, 2014 2:19am
Gulag1917

“The annual takings of criminal gangs around the world are roughly equivalent to Britain’s GDP, or twice the world’s combined defence budgets. Half of that amount is paid as bribes, which tend to make the rich and powerful even wealthier.”
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2007/sep/12/topstories3.mainsection
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September 7, 2014 3:05am

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