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September 20, 2014 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 20 September 2014

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General Debate

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duggledog

Global warming
God
David Bain

Ready, set… go!
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September 20, 2014 8:10am
jcuk

James Takamore
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September 20, 2014 8:12am
Andrei

ISIS is running out of ammunition – the American Congress agrees to resupply them.
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September 20, 2014 8:17am
Nookin

Duggle

Please go sit in a corner, put your finger in a pencil sharpener and turn, repeatedly, till the urge goes away. Please!
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September 20, 2014 8:19am
duggledog

Nookin

Already done that! Which is why I’m bored! What’s the point of a blog where you can’t discuss politics for one day out of 1,095?! I want my money back
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September 20, 2014 8:24am
Judith

Bloody hell Scotland, what were you thinking. I guess you’ve got what most of you asked for. The NO vote shows its ugly face.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/alanwhite/police-called-to-george-square-in-glasgow-following-confront#6c8un6

Saltire ripped from hands of young woman.
https://mtc.cdn.vine.co/r/videos_h264high/9C370D7F4F1124836624618942464_SW_WEBM_1411156158449e32a747f8d.mp4?versionId=45M6V9JWQhRyxxJmMf14yweJ2aNRtRx4

Alex Salmond resigns
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/scottish-independence-blog/live/2014/sep/19/scotland-votes-no-in-independence-referendum-live-coverage#block-541c49a3e4b0e17bb9e79122
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September 20, 2014 8:25am
flipper

God there is an absence of real news this morning.

Perhaps I need to check with the scammers to establish whether there has been a catastrophic weather event over night that might require the intervention of Big Joe and his sidekick, Mike, to prevent yet another “research” rip-off. If I don’t, surely the losses to the taxpayer will remain bane of my life, and will harass me until 1901hrs today. No ? 🙂
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September 20, 2014 8:28am
stephieboy

Andrei, very disingenuous .It must be all that RT and V of R hocus locus. and bamboozleing you suffer from.

Yes to allegedly arm ISIS then attack them makes enormous sense.!
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September 20, 2014 8:32am
Griff

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Fun:Global_warming_denial_Bingo
http://www.nationaljournal.com/energy/al-gore-climate-skepticism-will-haunt-republicans-in-2016-20140917
I linked to AL GORE
😯 👿 😈 😆
Glad to see mummy took the crayon away flips.
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September 20, 2014 8:35am
kowtow

flipper

It’s not an absence of real news. It’s the fact that the media control and decide what and how they will report events.

So Obama and other lackey western leaders are arming radical Muslims in Syria ,who are described as “moderates” and who have engaged in atrocities againt Christians , to topple a lawfully constituted and legally recognised government.If that were Bush the media would be in pposing overdrive, but because it’s Mr Hope and Change,Peace Prize winner it seems to be OK.
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September 20, 2014 8:37am
oldpark

Wonder what punters at the TAB thought,as well as racing fans all over NZ/AUSTRALIA when a jockey was put out for seven years for not riding his horse out.Decided to not go past go,as he had bet, that his horse would not be as fast as the horse in front of him.At least we have always known that trotting,and galloping horse races,are not in the same category as say” cricket”.That would not be” cricket”,if horses were not allowed to race on their merits.Maybe the jockey is just like a recent cricketer, who was caught match fixing.They broke the “11TH COMMANDMENT”.Thou shall not be found out.
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September 20, 2014 8:39am
nasska

Bad day to be a religio/conservative……it’s raining, you can’t discuss how progs are wrecking the country & Kea’s due back! 🙂
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September 20, 2014 8:40am
Chuck Bird

Since we cannot talk about the NZ election till 7pm this might make for interesting debate and how it relates to the recent problem in Oz.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-3X5hIFXYU#t=404
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September 20, 2014 8:48am
Griff

Racing is as bent as a gay parade always has been.
Hanging around the Richie racing stables was a delight in my youth.
horsy girls in jodhpurs mmmmmmm.
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September 20, 2014 8:49am
Dennis Horne

Is CO2 a greenhouse gas? YES/NO
Do greenhouse gases cause more of the Sun’s energy to be retained by the Earth? YES/NO
Has the level of CO2 in the atmosphere increased significantly recently? YES/NO
Would you expect this to cause the Earth to retain more energy? YES/NO
If the Earth has not retained more energy, do you have an explanation for this? YES/NO
If yes, what is it?
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September 20, 2014 8:49am
stephieboy

Kowtow , Andrei, Yoza and other Putin toadies.:

The Scottish and Crimea referendum compared,

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bxwry0_IIAE0bqP.png:large
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September 20, 2014 8:50am
Dennis Horne

Hope you didn’t do anything to frighten the horses, Griff. 😉
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September 20, 2014 8:52am
Andrei

Stephieboy if the USA put 500 million dollars worth of weapons into “moderates” hands in Syria what do you think will become of them?

How do you determine who is a “moderate”?

I actually think that the American Government has gone insane, apart from anything else they don’t actually have 500 million dollars to spend on this scheme and will have to borrow it

In fact this whole mickey mouse venture they have just voted for amounts to a mere Trillion dollars.

Like I said they are insane
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September 20, 2014 8:58am
Dennis Horne

The people who back alien immigration are hypocrites. They make money (and careers) out of it and remain insulated from the problems. If hordes squatted in their gardens and made ourselves at home they’d soon get the message.

We didn’t and we don’t want these fuckers here. We’ve seen what it’s done to London and Paris. Cesspits.
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September 20, 2014 9:06am
Harriet

Holy Korap – they’re out protesting in Sydney about their treatment by police.

another Palestine. The Greens will support them no doubt.
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September 20, 2014 9:09am
David Garrett

I truly believe Muslim immigration is waaaay more important than global warming as something to worry about here…and the really scary thing is no political party has indicated any disquiet about it…I tried to get Mr Craig interested…No, cant go there, that’s politics.

They are a real threat to our way of life…and we are going to have to just sit back and watch the bastards slowly take over our culture, just as they have in parts of England.

I wrote a piece on this for the last issue of Investigate…it prompted a letter to the editor from one Adullah Drury (I am not making this up) which didn’t address the argument I had made at all, but rather contained a lecture on the history of Islam…not only do I not give a rats arse about what the Prophet did in Medina in 700 something, that is entirely beside the bloody point. I am concerned with what they are doing, and will do in the future HERE…right now, and in the years to come.
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September 20, 2014 9:18am
stephieboy

Andrew, how do you determine who is moderate.? That is determined by a number of factors including intelligence gathering and research the kind of proceese conspicuously absent when Putin and his Kremlin cronies decided to aid Assad.

Meanwhile,

Tatar leader: referendum’s results ‘predetermined’

Crimean Tatar leader Refat Chubarov tells DW why he called for a boycott of the referendum in Crimea and why he thinks the international community must act.

http://www.dw.de/tatar-leader-referendums-results-predetermined/a-17500078
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September 20, 2014 9:21am
flipper

kowtow (8,156 comments) says:

September 20th, 2014 at 8:37 am

flipper

It’s not an absence of real news
*****

True, and I guess that we are now, officially, part of the media !!!
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September 20, 2014 9:24am
simpleton1

David Garrett (6,953 comments) says:
September 20th, 2014 at 9:18 am
In Europe I can understand the pressures of shutting you down , but here in NZ, we still do not have thought police laws.
Posted on another thread a few days ago
I wonder if this politician has a point? Hammer/nail

Paul Weston
The answer is simple. If politicians publicly state Islam is dangerous, then the public will ask them to do something about it. If politicians actually DID something about it, the Muslims would take to the streets. From there we are looking at a potential civil war. No politician wants this to happen on their watch, so they do nothing, thereby passing the buck onto the shoulders of our children and grandchildren who will face far greater numbers of Muslims in the future.

As he is from the UK and is very much onto it.
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September 20, 2014 9:25am
Lindsay Addie

Judith,

You know a lot more than I re the Scottish vote. Tell me did the Yes campaign elucidate a clear and detailed economic plan?
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September 20, 2014 9:25am
Andrei

LOL Stephieboy dredging up an ancient propaganda piece from March – sad, very sad.

Today’s trivia – Charles Bronson was a Tartar from Lithuania
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September 20, 2014 9:26am
Dennis Horne

Independence would have been a disaster for Scotland. No quick or automatic acceptance into the EU, which Salmond promised, the powers that be don’t want to set a precedence. Eventual acceptance under poorer terms. In the meantime, no money.
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September 20, 2014 9:36am
WineOh

Well I can’t think of a single scenario where the USA has supplied arms to resistance fighters where it has turned around to bite them on the bum.

Wait… except maybe Afghanistan. Oh and also Iraq. And the Contras. Hmm… ok pretty much every single time they have done it!

I’d be interested to see where ISIS has got its arms from… were these guys supplied by the US to combat the Syrian regime?
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September 20, 2014 9:37am
Kimbo

@ David Garrett

I wrote a piece on this for the last issue of Investigate…it prompted a letter to the editor from one Adullah Drury (I am not making this up) which didn’t address the argument I had made at all, but rather contained a lecture on the history of Islam…I am concerned with what they are doing, and will do in the future HERE…right now, and in the years to come.

Abdullah Drury is a New Zealander who converted to Islam in the course of his studies of world religions at Waikato University a number of years ago.

If he was giving you a history lesson, it may have included mention of the fact that the Western suspiscion that Muslims will act as a fifth column or hit the jihad button at the drop of a hat is not necessarily so.

For instance, during World War II, despite Bristish and Vichy French colonialisation throughout the Middle East, the unpopularity of Jewish immigration in Palestine and the predations of Zionist terrorists like the Stern Gang who assassinated the British Resident Minister at the same time as Hitler was still very much alive and the Holocaust in full swing

…the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem in collaboration with the Nazis issued a jihad

…and despite plenty of apparent incentives barely any Muslims throughout the Middle East responded.
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September 20, 2014 9:50am
Reid

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2759299/ISIS-releases-Hollywood-style-propaganda-video-response-US-plans-deploy-troops-Iraq-threatening-fighting-just-begun.html

When will the useful learn that a force like ISIS doesn’t just appear out of nowhere and do things like they’ve been doing, causing for example 30,000 Iraqi troops to just “melt away” LEAVING ALL THEIR EQUIPMENT and stuff like that, without some significantly powerful black hands guiding them from behind the scenes.

When will the useful idiots learn that in light of all the evidence the MSM is manipulated all the time – e.g. there are definitely WMDs in Iraq, yes the North Vietnamese attacked us in the Gulf of Tonkin etc, it’s quite likely that the useful idiots are STILL being played like violins when it comes to the latest bogeyman – ISIS.

When will the useful idiots learn that when there is clear and present reality staring them in the face that they are being manipulated – e.g. politicians of all stripes over decades permitting unrestricted Muslim immigration into Europe and unrestricted South American immigration into the US that duh, it probably is the case that politicians of all stripes are playing them like violins same as the media is doing.

When will the useful idiots learn that when there are things like Albert Pike’s history on full display in the interweb who talked about things like the first world war being to create Israel and the second world war being to populate Israel and the third world war being to destroy Israel via a worldwide Muslim-Christian conflict that it may be worth educating themselves on the facts surrounding such people given the significance of the subject matter and the fact that global politics does indeed appear to be playing out exactly as he for example and he’s only one, portrays? And this notwithstanding that duh – if the facts on the interweb are correct then double duh, of course there will be disinformation over its accuracy but this doesn’t mean triple duh, that that disinformation is indeed the case, does it.

When will the useful idiots learn that the way social engineering works is by manipulating the subconscious not the conscious mind which means, duh that YOU DON’T EVEN REALISE YOU’RE BEING MANIPULATED and when will the useful idiots factor that conscious thought into their thinking when they are reviewing material referencing the above and millions of other strands in the pattern.

When will the useful idiots finally but fucking finally wake the fuck up?

I’m picking, after it’s all too late to do anything about it.
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September 20, 2014 9:51am
big bruv

Judith

Unless I am very much mistaken, you have in the past claimed that you understand how things work in Scotland. Given that claim, how on earth are you surprised that things have kicked off in Glasgow?

As soon as you start using terms such as “unionist” in Glasgow to describe those who support the NO vote you bring the extremely ugly face of sectarianism into the debate. The mini riots in Glasgow will have very little at all to do with the referendum, it will all be about religion.
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September 20, 2014 9:51am
Redbaiter

“the Muslims would take to the streets. From there we are looking at a potential civil war.”

I doubt there would be war.

The west I see wouldn’t have the balls.

They’d just give up the streets to the Muslims.

To do otherwise would be “racist”.
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September 20, 2014 9:53am
kowtow

David Garret says……”They are a real threat to our way of life”.

Absolutly. The more I study it and the more evident it becomes as their way of life manifests itself through mass immigration to the west ,the more convinced I am that that threat is now greater than the one posed by communism.

It has always been acceptable in the west to oppose a political ideology. The west has been undermined by multiculturalism and “tolerance”and of course our own acceptance of the notion of religious freedom.

Islam is more than a religion. It is a total way of life and one that was founded in opposition to and often violent conflict with other religions,notably Judaism.

Islam is a violent and supremacist ideology. It has no place in the west. The first step must be to end Muslim immigration. Failure to do so will mean the end of what we know as western civilisation .
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September 20, 2014 9:55am
stephieboy

Andrei, out of date.? Possibly but this side by side comparison with Scottish and so called Crimea referendum i posted Earlier is not out of date ,

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bxwry0_IIAE0bqP.png:large

$ 500 million in US aid to the moderate rebels .?

Can you present Putin’s and the Kremlin’s budget for aid to Basher al Assad for comparisons.?
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September 20, 2014 9:55am
Redbaiter

Big Bruv still has his account.

Makes a mockery of David Farrar’s claims he would protect users from false complaints.
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September 20, 2014 9:56am
flipper

David G…
Ok, for the want of anything better, let’s go religion.

What other folks believe is their affair – for so long as they do not seek to compel me or others to accept their views, by whatever means they choose (from ISIS violence to passive persuasion).

A confirmed Anglican, I accept and endeavour to embrace core behavioural principles, but reject the church dogma. And I reject the tendency of some priests or preachers or pastors to preach politics. (A lecture by an activist Anglican priest, one Godfrey Wilson, at the private baptism of my son, caused me to rise in the church and ask him to confine his comments to matters on which he had some knowledge. There was a stunned silence before he moved back to the baptismal script.) What may or may not have happened 2014 years ago, and has since been written, or what the xyz happened at Medina, I reject in the same way as I reject the totality and accuracy of Maori oral history.

When someone asks me to accept as “gospel” a belief of what someone is said to have said at a time when formal education was almost zero, I think of all those bridges that have been sold – and the fact that, throughout history, more wars have been fought in the name of religion than for any other reason. Those who believe the specifics of such claimed religious events are, in my view, verging on nutter status. But they are entitled to be nutters, and to hold those views for so long as they refrain from seeking to impose them on me, or any person incapable of sophisticated thought.
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September 20, 2014 9:56am
stephieboy

kowtow, when will you and Garret start your “deport New Zealnd’s 50,000 Muslims ” campaign .? Outside which Dairy do you propose to begin your leaflet drop.?
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September 20, 2014 10:01am
Kimbo

@ David Garrett

…and I think you will find from this extended quote from Investigate Magazine piece that Abdullah Drury is not wearing rose-tinted glasses, nor necessarily in favour of increased Muslim immigration. Instead, he is a guy looking to what is best for both the Muslim community and the nation: –

http://www.thebriefingroom.com/archives/2007/03/preachers_of_ha.html

March 30, 2007
Preachers of Hate

SPECIAL INVESTIGATION
HELEN HOODWINKED BY PREACHERS OF HATE

OSAMA BIN LADEN’S TENTACLES REACH NEW ZEALAND’S FIVE MAIN CENTRES IN MASSIVE BORDER SECURITY BREACH

Disquiet was also voiced in the New Zealand Herald last year by local Muslim leader Abdullah Drury, who warned that 30 years of making the Muslim community a mainstream part of New Zealand was disappearing out the door because the huge influx of recent immigrants under Labour has changed the balance of power. Where once Muslims had a sense of their NZ identity, Drury says the new leaders’ “hearts, minds, rationale and prejudices are still firmly rooted in their home countries.

More than one North Island critic has stated that some Canterbury Muslims think they’re still living in Africa or the Middle East.

“Why are things falling apart now?” asks Drury. “The most significant contribution stems from the massive and poorly planned influx of immigrants and refugees from Africa and the Middle East in the 1990s. Nobody in the local Muslim community
ever anticipated or planned this.”

From 13,000 Muslims in 1996, there are now almost 37,000, and the Islamic community has jumped 50% under Labour.

Says Drury:

“The pioneering Muslim families who established Islam in this country have been effectively overwhelmed: swept out of office by the superior numbers of the new faces, or entrenching themselves and encouraging newcomers to set up their own Islamic prayer arrangements.

“There was also a substantial change in composition. In the 1970s most Muslims in New Zealand were…mostly from societies with long traditions of interaction with white Anglo-Saxon culture and customs: Indians, Fiji Indians or Pakistanis.

“Now, there is a substantial bloc, often Arab or African, with considerably poorer education than their predecessors, with vastly different language skills and cultures to those this country has traditionally absorbed.

“This,” warns Drury, “has exacerbated community differences along ethnic, linguistic or cultural lines inside mosques from Christchurch to Auckland…very quickly [the Arab/African faction] use their disproportionately larger numbers to vote in their own leaders. Consequently, a fair number of mosques in New Zealand are currently being administered or dominated by people and groups who have arrived in this country within the last 10 years, some substantially less.”
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September 20, 2014 10:01am
Lindsay Addie

I guess its ok on NZ election day to make fun of US politicians? 😉

Well Joe Biden has put his foot in the doggy doos again. At a women’s event he praised a former Democratic member of the Senate who actually was forced out because of sexual harassment claims.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/09/19/biden-at-womens-event-praises-senator-forced-to-resign-over-sexual-harassment/

Being completely apolitical. I love US politics for the entertainment value as both the left and the right have a decent supply of nitwits!
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September 20, 2014 10:03am
Redbaiter

Lindsay- given that there is in actuality only about a dozen Republicans who could be correctly perceived as “right” wing I wonder who it is you found funny on that side of the spectrum.

Like most of the West, the Dems and the Repubs are just a conglomerate of the same dirty brown socialist sludge.
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September 20, 2014 10:09am
Lindsay Addie

Redbaiter,

The GOP are currently all over the place. They should regain the Senate easily but it will probably be close. I take your point, there are plenty of Republicans who should join the Democrats. Yes they could potentially qualify as nitwits.
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September 20, 2014 10:13am
Richard II

At 10:12am, just now, we got a recorded message phone call from one of the political parties.

Is this against the rules anyone know? If so is a report to the Electoral Commission the best way the make a complaint, or straight to the media?
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September 20, 2014 10:16am
hj

On my way to the polling both I thought “Vote Green get brown”. I said hullo to a couple who didn’t speak English, they did a grimace/grin, I thought “you’ll be voting Act/national”. If they looked like struggler I would have said labour. I walked past a community garden and I pondered communism. If you take away communism you see that it is a basic miss understanding of human behaviour that accounted for it’s failure. I ponderd multiculturalism in the context of a neighbourhood where there are overturned shopping trolleys and unmowen grass and I thought of Russell Brown “when I came back from London and went down to the cafe, blah, blah, it was so much better, my Chinese neighbour, blah, blah”; it’s not the same in a leafy suburb.
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September 20, 2014 10:16am
Redbaiter

“The GOP are currently all over the place. They should regain the Senate easily but it will probably be close.”

I’ve stopped watching FOX some time ago and I don’t listen to Limbaugh or Levin much anymore either, so I’m not up with it as much as I was.

I decided that media personalities are just a distraction and none of them really do their job the way it should be done.

The left have poisoned the democratic system so nothing will really change much in the US until there is bloody and violent revolution or the schools and universities are purged of communists.

IMHO the former is more likely than the latter.
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September 20, 2014 10:20am
stephieboy

Kimbo, you also joining kowtow iand David Garrett in the Deport NZ’s 50,000 Muslims. Campaighn.?

Ian Wishart purveyor of Conpiracy theory and who thought
the X Files were credible.?
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September 20, 2014 10:21am
hj

@ stephieboy

I don’t think they are aiming for deportation, rather an admission that the multicultural policies pushed on us by a narcissistic left are a mistake.
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September 20, 2014 10:24am
Redbaiter

Stephie-

Two questions for you-

1) Why are you so racist towards white people?

2) and what colour is a Muslim?
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September 20, 2014 10:26am
kowtow

flipper

Good on you for standing up to your priest! In the best traditions of protestantism.( I say that as Roman )

Problem with Islam is there is no separation of church and state ,no pluralism.And ven that in the west was ahieved only after long and bitter warsover hundreds of years. Is that what we want to see agian. Saudi Arabia and Iran are good exapmles of Islamic states with no pluralism.Turkey supposedly modrn and secular is drifting back to Islamism.

The name Islam means submission. Its aim is literally world domination and the submission of all people to it.
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September 20, 2014 10:27am
Lindsay Addie

Redbaiter,

Take the last two presidential nominees McCain and Romney. Both decent men but first McCain, hawkish on foreign affairs but on domestic policy he sounds like the Democrats. Romney when a Governor implemented a complex state run healthcare system. He doesn’t believe in lean government.
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September 20, 2014 10:27am
stephieboy

Redbaiter, who did you catch your delusions and paranoia from.?
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September 20, 2014 10:29am
OneTrack

stephieboy – “kowtow, when will you and Garret start your “deport New Zealnd’s 50,000 Muslims ” campaign .? Outside which Dairy do you propose to begin your leaflet drop.?”

Are you saying it’s too late to do anything?
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September 20, 2014 10:29am
Redbaiter

“Take the last two presidential nominees McCain and Romney.”

Yes, basically agree with your assessment there. Many Republicans stayed home on voting day.

The Republican Party should know better than to allow the Democrats to pick their nominees.
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September 20, 2014 10:31am
Redbaiter

So Stephie you ponce around here all day asking poorly premised questions of other posters time and time again but when someone asks a question of you, you refuse to answer. How’s that work?
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September 20, 2014 10:33am
Reid

Stephie-

Two questions for you-

1) Why are you so racist towards white people?

and

So Stephie you ponce around here all day asking poorly premised questions of other posters time and time again but when someone asks a question of you, you refuse to answer. How’s that work?

He’s a gweenie RB. It explains everything. Such as not just your two questions but mostly his incorrect assumption he knows exactly what people think about subjects he himself knows nothing about. Plus of course the curious combination of his utter naivety and his towering arrogance.
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September 20, 2014 10:33am
flipper

Electioneering…..

A couple of days ago I heard the Chief Electoral Officer burbling on about the need to keep today free from party political comment and advertising. Quite apart from what the Act says, the man justified it on the ground that it “has always been that way in New Zealand”.

I had not thought about what is different this year until last Saturday when, over lunch, my wife noted the stupidity of the law when early polling (that was being actively encouraged) actually commenced on Friday, September 5. I cast my vote on Monday, September 8. And up until 5pm on Thursday, September 18, some 560,000 others had also voted . I suspect, that by last evening the total will have been about 700,000 – all cast during the hurly burly of the campaign.

To my mind the need for advertising to removed , and other nit-picking restrictions imposed, is a nonsense.

It was therefore good that the Chief E O said yesterday that a rethink might be necessary for 2017.

What say y’all????
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September 20, 2014 10:33am
hj

Islam is like licorice allsorts: they always have the black ones in the pack.
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September 20, 2014 10:33am
Sublime

Global warming
God
David Bain

LOL duggledog, someone had to 😉

And anyone wishing to kill a few hours today – I present, the DRUDGE REPORT. You’re welcome.
http://www.drudgereport.com
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September 20, 2014 10:37am
Kimbo

@ stephiboy

No.

I was seeking to establish the credentials of Abdullah Drury (whom I merely quoted – the source was incidental) as a reliable and honest ‘expert’ on the matter of the New Zealand Muslim community.

http://www.waikato.ac.nz/fass/UWISG/profile-a-drury.shtml

My views for the record – Muslim immigration does pose a potential problem. The risk of radicalisation, particularly by young men of the 2nd generation and with limited knowledge is very real compared to other religious and ethnic groups. Only a fool would ignore that – and Abdullah Drury is no fool. But Glenn Greenwald, Julian Assange and Edward Snowden most certainly are.

But the other side of the same extremist coin are the demonisers of the long-established NZ Muslim community who have worked hard to integrate, and are good Kiwis just like every other immigrant group. I have the pleasure of knowing some of these folks, and they are bloody angry and mortified by the actions of a few fanatical FOBs trying to hijack mosques. And in the main, such as the recent example in Avondale, they are doing a good job of dealing with it. Which is why they are also the key to the state dealing effectively with potential terrorists within their community.

Plus you may have noticed on previous threads that David Garrett has been unable to come up a workable a constitutionally workable way in our secular system to specifically restrict Muslims, other than the (meaningless in practical terms) observation “Parliament is sovereign”.

So, as I think Drury alludes to, we are all much better to work together as Kiwis to address the potential problem.
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September 20, 2014 10:38am
Redbaiter

“He’s a gweenie RB. It explains everything.”

Yes, damn right there.

Overly susceptible to auto-suggestion and unable to think logically.

Must have recently graduated from Waikato or somewhere like that.
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September 20, 2014 10:39am
Dennis Horne

What is the “theory” behind early voting?
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September 20, 2014 10:40am
hj

Re Islam, we over look the realities of different cultures, for example I once saw a middle aged teacher (Japanese) on a school trip holding hands with one of his pupils (a cute little 15 year old). They were an item. It had the effect of seeing a flying pig. Likewise we find it hard to believe that a culture would condone violence (as Islam does).
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September 20, 2014 10:42am
Reid

What is the “theory” behind early voting?

Today’s educational system, the dumbed-down media, Hollyweird and a growing segment of unfit parents have combined to produce a population of ill disciplined morons incapable of organising themselves to vote on a particular day so the rest of us are forced to offer them a 3-week timeband to do what we all used to be able to accomplish in a 12-hour period.
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September 20, 2014 10:44am
OneTrack

Kimbo – “So, as I think Drury alludes to, we are all much better to work together as Kiwis to address the potential problem.”

That sounds so wonderful. So we won’t have any problems because we are so “nice” and “special”. And the only reason Britain, Australia, the US, France, … are having problems is because they are just grumpy mweanies?
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September 20, 2014 10:45am
Sublime

Dennis Horne: What is the “theory” behind early voting?

I’m sure it’s backed by legislation and numerous provisions … that’s where you’ll find a more precise answer.

My understanding is that it’s [the theory behind early voting] just meant to give voters more options as to when they cast their vote; on the day they may not be able to for a variety of reasons.

I think I had an exam either on or before voting day a couple of elections ago … either way, voting on the actual day would’ve been a pain due to either sitting the exam or going over stuff before it. So I used the early voting system then and found it helpful. I think you just had to say why you couldn’t vote on the day; I don’t think they could challenge you on it or prevent you from casting an early vote, you just had to have some reason.
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September 20, 2014 10:45am
Fletch

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ReC8m73kCNY
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September 20, 2014 10:48am
flipper

Early voting theory????

Don’t know, but I suspect a desire to get a higher voter turn-out. If, as I and others suspect, some 700,000 will have voted by last night, all of those votes in NZ (not sure about out-of-electorate votes) will have been counted before 1900 hrs today That will make the opening of media coverage very, very different from 2011. No?
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September 20, 2014 10:49am
Kimbo

@ One Track

So we won’t have any problems because we are so “nice” and “special”. And the only reason Britain, Australia, the US, France, … are having problems is because they are just grumpy mweanies?

Of course there will be problems. There were problems with every immigrant group in this nation dating back to Irish Catholics and Chinese in the 1860s onwards (maybe the Dutch of the 1950s were an exception).

I don’t deny elements within the the Muslim community, as I suggested earlier, pose a different potential problem. But simple solutions from each extreme – Muslim immigration will inevitably lead to terrorism vs liberal multicultualism will dissolve any tensions – are false turns.

If Britain, France and Aussie have made mistakes, learn from them.

Lesson # 1 (IMHO), Don’t EVER compromise on free speech, or make special accommodations for religious or other minorities in the shared secular realm. It is a Trojan Horse. It undermines our secular/non-sectarian civil system, just as surely as targetting one group and restricting their immigration on the basis of their faith.

Walking the tightrope is the key, not succumbing to the false turn (‘scuse mangled metaphors) of simplistic solutions.

Liberal democracy was never meant to be easy! It requires eternal vigilance and the threats are sometimes very subtle. I would suggest the likes of kowtow, for example and despite his good intentions, represent one of those threats.
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September 20, 2014 10:53am
Dennis Horne

I am a simple man, not cultured and educated in the classics and history, but I have lived in Paris and London and my Kiwi children live in Europe (dual nationality). All I know is alien immigration has been a total unmitigated disaster for the ordinary people. Many, including relatives in Paris, have had their lives ruined. Literally had to leave their homes to escape the shit these people cause in the community.

For fuck’s sake, a “normal” homogeneous community has enough issues without introducing intractable problems.
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September 20, 2014 10:53am
Griff

redtard @ 1016
there is in actuality only about a dozen Republicans who could be correctly perceived as ~~“right wing”~~ raving loons.

The right have poisoned the democratic system so nothing will really change much in the US until there is bloody and violent revolution or the political process is purged of crony capitalist paid to work for the super rich .
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September 20, 2014 10:54am
adze

Is Rawshark active again?

http://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/316574/over-20-million-attempts-hack-health-database
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September 20, 2014 10:57am
hj

hj (6,823 comments) says:
September 20th, 2014 at 10:33 am

Islam is like licorice all-sorts: they always have the black ones in the pack.
…
What I meant was there will always be a radical percentage. Having said that the Economist said that India didn’t have so many radicalised Muslims.
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September 20, 2014 11:07am
Viking2

Dennis Horne (2,332 comments) says:
September 20th, 2014 at 10:40 am

What is the “theory” behind early voting?
====================
No theory, just someone had a yehaa moment of common s3ense and made it easy to vote.

Those way out back could do the job when in town. Those that were going elsewhere for the day likewise.

Excellent idea.
Next step make the final day atThurday so we don’t have to pay double time or exorbitant rates tothe people doing the job and then the counting can be done Friday so we can have the weekend doing good things instead of being beaten up by this shit.
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September 20, 2014 11:09am
Dennis Horne

Kimbo: targeting. Once is a typo.
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September 20, 2014 11:09am
Tinshed

@flipper

I like that fact that on the actual day of the election there is no political advertising or comment. It gives an air of seriousness, even solemnity to the process of voting. I understand of course that there is a contradiction between all of these the activities being allowed during early voting but not on the actual day. But the tradition is worth keeping I think like the times when there are no commercial advertising on TV. There is ample opportunity for all parties to put their point of view across during the actual campaign so I don’t think it is much to ask that on the actual day we are free of party political activity.
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September 20, 2014 11:15am
Kimbo

@ Dennis Horne

Kimbo: targeting. Once is a typo.

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/targetting

Maybe not! 🙂

But then I may have fallen foul of the immutable truth that 9 grmmatical experts = 10 opinions!

http://www.future-perfect.co.uk/grammar-tip/is-it-targetted-or-targeted/

Is it targetted or targeted?

When adding -ing and -ed to verbs, we sometimes double the consonant beforehand. People are often confused with ‘targetted/targeted’, ‘benefitted/benefited’ and ‘focussed/focused’. This tip answers some of those queries.

The official requirements are that we ‘double a single consonant letter at the end of any base where the preceding vowel is spelled with a single letter and stressed’.
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September 20, 2014 11:15am
big bruv

“Yes, basically agree with your assessment there. Many Republicans stayed home on voting day. ”

So, does that make a lie of your long term assertion that Sarah (I can see Russia from my house) Palin was the ideal right wing candidate?

Sounds like you are talking shit again Bedwetter.
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September 20, 2014 11:24am
Fletch

Sarah (I can see Russia from my house) Palin

She never said that. That was said by Tina Fey in character as Sarah Palin on the comedy show Saturday Night Live. What Palin actually said is that you can see Russia from some places in Alaska (which is true).

“[Russia are] our next-door neighbors, and you can actually see Russia from land here in Alaska, from an island in Alaska” ~ Sarah Palin

From the New York Times, 1988 –

To the Russian mainland from St. Lawrence Island, a bleak ice-bound expanse the size of Long Island out in the middle of the Bering Sea, the distance is 37 miles. From high ground there or from the Air Force facility at Tin City atop Cape Prince of Wales, the westernmost edge of mainland North America, on a clear day you can see Siberia with the naked eye.

http://www.nytimes.com/1988/10/23/magazine/lifting-the-ice-curtain.html
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September 20, 2014 11:35am
Dennis Horne

The purpose of no electioneering on the Big Day is to avoid bullying and intimidation without needing to define it.
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September 20, 2014 11:36am
stephieboy

Reid and Redbaiter,

Rather like Ian Wishart I suggest both of you pay a visit to your Doctor..!
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September 20, 2014 11:39am
hj

If those muslim extremists were prosecuted for hate speech?
Another example “you’re standing on stolen land” Mana protestors to John Key.
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September 20, 2014 11:41am
nasska

Would that be Sarah “Don’t you know who I am? Palin Fletch?

Poor woman must have forgotten. 🙂

Ref: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/sarah-palin/11091080/Sarah-Palin-and-family-caught-up-in-Alaska-mass-brawl.html
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September 20, 2014 11:44am
David Garrett

Simpleton @ 9.25: You have put your finger on it…If our generation – well, in reality it will have to be the one following mine – don’t do something about this now we will be bequeathing a very different country to our grandchildren…Remember the early days in England ten or twenty years ago when Muslim activism first began to bite? No nativity scenes at Christmas because it might offend the bastards…next it was no crosses anywhere other than a church…we all shook our heads and scoffed, secure in the knowledge that WE wouldn’t be so gutless as to allow it to happen here…

As several others have said above, What on earth would make us any different from western societies that have allowed their Muslim population to increase to 5% or more? the answer of course lies across the Tasman, and emerged in its true evil light just last week…

I was very interested in the extracts from stuff Mr Drury had written 7 years ago or so…he was then effectively saying something very similar to me – he said that Muslims from Africa and the Arab countries were taking over mosques that had hitherto been governed by people – such as Fiji Indians – who had a long history of peaceful interaction with the host country/culture. Given what he said back then, I wonder why he responds to my piece with an entirely irrelevant lesson on ancient Islamic history?
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September 20, 2014 11:45am
Mike

Garrett:

I am sincerely curious as to your other views, for example, are you against race mixing? do you support segregation of schools by race?
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September 20, 2014 11:46am
Redbaiter

Pretty quiet here.

I guess Narsekissa will be along sooner or later unconsciously expressing his secret desire to be chained to the altar and abused by a Christian priest.

As usual.
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September 20, 2014 11:49am
Dennis Horne

Mike. Hahaha. His children are Tongan, or as he puts it, half Tongan.
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September 20, 2014 11:50am
Fletch

naaska, so, you’ve never got caught up in a mass brawl? lol
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September 20, 2014 11:51am
David Garrett

stephieboy: You’re just another wanker hiding behind a pseud mate…you stand for nothing, not passionate about anything; don’t try and change anything…you might as well be a wether who peacefully crops the grass until the stock truck comes one afternoon…

The population consists of large numbers of wethers and ewes – just like you – and a few people like me who stand up and say “We’re not happy with this shit, and we are going to at least try and change it”…I hope you don’t you -know-what today…keep on eating that grass…
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September 20, 2014 11:51am
Mike

Does anyone think that the election rules are unreasonable? It is kind of offensive to the typical New Zealander that the government needs to “protect” them from information. I abide by the law, i just think its silly.
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September 20, 2014 11:52am
tom hunter

The right have poisoned the democratic system so nothing will really change much in the US until there is bloody and violent revolution or the political process is purged of crony capitalist paid to work for the super rich .

The right huh?

Allow me to introduce you to Tom Steyer: billionaire, supporter of Democrats and Democrat groups to the tune of $100 million dollars plus to date (with more to come), coal hypocrite.

And he’s just one of many of the “super rich” who support the Democrats and “liberal” causes. Here’s an article on the Democracy Alliance:

Since it launched in 2005, the group’s roughly 100 members have helped create robust infrastructure of think tanks, research organizations and political support groups, helping finance organizations such as Media Matters for America, a media watchdog group; America Votes, which coordinates the efforts of allied interest groups; and Catalist, which provides voter data.

The alliance does not distribute money itself. Rather, it vets organizations seeking funding and recommends certain groups to its members, called “partners,” who are required to donate at least $200,000 a year to endorsed organizations. It does not disclose who participates, but mega-donors such as billionaire hedge fund manager George Soros, venture capitalist Rob McKay, hedge fund manager Tom Steyer and trial lawyers Steve and Amber Mostyn have been identified as members.

Together, such wealthy players have pumped an estimated $500 million into an array of liberal organizations over the last decade.

Take a look at their connections, or the Center for American Progress, or this list of the largest direct party donors over the last ten years (almost all unions). That’s before we reach President Goldman Sachs.

Read all of it Griff and then you won’t be surprised the next time a Democrat outspends a Republican in an election – a common occurrence by the way, so common that it should have destroyed the common myth of poor lefties and rich righties by now.

You also hopefully won’t write anything so horribly stupid about US politics again.
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September 20, 2014 11:53am
Mike

“You’re just another wanker hiding behind a pseud mate”

Mr. Garrett: the voice of civilization, reason and peaceful co-existence.
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September 20, 2014 11:53am
Redbaiter

“Would that be Sarah “Don’t you know who I am? Palin Fletch?”

Left wingers making up stuff again.

Look out Narsekissa, the Christians are coming to get you.
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September 20, 2014 11:58am
flipper

Tinshed @ 11.15am…

Yep cannot disagree with you over the principle of an absence of advertising per se, so long as it applies to everything.
But, unlike going to the Supermarket, or grog shop, we only get to vote once every three years , more or less. To ban advts on the one constitutionally important day every three years is crazy.

Then there are other serious questions of freedom that the Electoral Act proscribes like:

* – Placing a limit on total party political spending
* – Denying parties any ability to spend their own monies on electronic advertising, and restricting such spending to what is allocated by the State
* – Limiting the amount that any individual candidate may spend.

There are probably other similar limitations that be identified by the likes of DPF and GE. But they will do for the purposes of my argument. And those examples must be seen differently from identity of donor disclosure.

All of the $ limits, and TV/Radio spending restrictions, are a desire to achieve the lowest common denominator. Of course it is sold as being equitable – of placing all on the same footing. But that is bullshit, and it falls in the same category as total State funding of parties as at least two would impose on us. We have already experienced the grand larceny by H Clark/H Simpson being retrospectively approved. Politics is a contest of ideas. Sound ideas attract investors. Voters will not fund idiots. The voters should be able to invest where they wish – without limitation.

There we are. Good political discussion, free of today’s subject restrictions, and not a single party or candidate mention. 🙂
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September 20, 2014 12:00pm
Redbaiter

“You also hopefully won’t write anything so horribly stupid about US politics again.”

He listed his information sources here once.

Remember thinking at the time “Its no wonder he’s so blackhole ignorant.”
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September 20, 2014 12:01pm
nasska

….” unconsciously expressing his secret desire to be chained to the altar and abused by a Christian priest.”…..

Later Baity…..you go first. Tell us about how you masturbate ferociously to pictures of yourself. 🙂
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September 20, 2014 12:01pm
Redbaiter

“Mr. Garrett: the voice of civilization, reason and peaceful co-existence.”

Hey Mike, what race is a Muslim?
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September 20, 2014 12:03pm
David Garrett

Dennis H: What else are my children but half Tongan? Their mother is a full blooded Tongan, I have Welsh and French ancestry…my kids are what is called in Tonga “half-halfs”…and that is not at all a derogatory term, it’s simply a statement of fact…You are well old enough to remember when “half-caste” was a perfectly OK term here too…now of course it is as bad as the N word…

Mike: You might be able to help me here..In my life Americans of African extraction have been called “Blacks” (their term), then “coloured people”, then “people of colour” (their term again)

Can you explain what is superior to “people of colour” as opposed to “coloured people”? You sould like just the sort of chap who would be able to enlighten me…

Oh by the way, Hone Harawira – who I’m sure you think is a wonderful chap – used frequently say to me “Your wife’s blacker than me, eh bro?” ..I would reply: “She is Hone…And?” Perhaps you might know what he was getting at?

And for the record, NO, I am not interested in peaceful co-existence with Muslims for the very good reason they are not interested in peaceful co-existience with me…
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September 20, 2014 12:03pm
ross411

Mike (443 comments) says:
September 20th, 2014 at 11:53 am
“You’re just another wanker hiding behind a pseud mate”

Mr. Garrett: the voice of civilization, reason and peaceful co-existence.

Attack the message, not the messenger. Yes, Garrett wasn’t much better. But you’re on the same level.
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September 20, 2014 12:08pm
Nukuleka

I’m not much impressed by the article on Stuff today about ’10 reasons to Vote’. One reason given seems to be suggesting that if you don’t vote the results will benefit the rich! I may be a mite sensitive but surely a statement like this is bordering on the unacceptable in terms of electoral rules.

Or have I broken the rules by commenting on it!
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September 20, 2014 12:08pm
Mike

Garrett,

I asked you a simple question about your other views which you refused to answer. I have no idea why you are dodging the question.

This is a democracy, there is freedom of speech, assuming you hold these views, sure they may not be mainstream, but you should be truthful to yourself, and others.

I only asked because i know of a website that has a forum which has others who hold these kinds of views. I wanted to know if you were familiar with it (or a member of it).
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September 20, 2014 12:08pm
Redbaiter

naaska, so, you’ve never got caught up in a mass brawl? lol

Fletch- the story Narsekissa linked to is just the usual complete bullshit hit job on Palin from the progs. There are more truthful accounts of the event out there and they explain that what Palin said was that the attackers should know her son was an Iraqi war veteran.

The left propagandists who write this stuff know they have a ready market in the blind prejudices of the ignorant progs out there who hate Palin, and Narsekissa just proved them right.
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September 20, 2014 12:10pm

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