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August 29, 2014 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 29 August 2014

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General Debate

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stephieboy

Ohter Andy,

I wonder if you believe the Polynesians are some how inferior compared to a pale face like you.?
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August 29, 2014 1:14pm
Dennis Horne

Kimbo. I think you know I have an old MSc from University College Hospital Medical School. I don’t know much about science but I know a bit about research. If some science shows Polynesians made return journeys then the science is probably wrong.

You see, I have faith in my judgement about some things. As do you, about some things.

You are a most interesting person but I must go for a walk with my long-suffering first wife…
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August 29, 2014 1:17pm
Kimbo

@ Other_Andy

Always wondered why they never discovered Australia.

Presumeably the prevailing West-East head wind.

But then who the hell would want to be blamed for discovering Australia?! Abel Tasman was so eager to avoid the infamy he managed to sail right around it without even knowing it was there!
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August 29, 2014 1:17pm
David Garrett

Kimbo: the “Polynesians went to the Americas and back” has long been a discredited theory…not withstanding Thor Heyerdahl’s best efforts 60 years ago…

There is no evidence at all – so far as I am aware – that once here the Maori ever went back to – say – Tonga or Fiji, although both those groups of Islands are only 1000 miles or so from here…but, like Australia, they would have been beating against the wind to get to either..
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August 29, 2014 1:41pm
Milk Me

David.There is also no evidence to say they didn’t make the voyages multiple times either, no one actually knows for sure.
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August 29, 2014 1:46pm
Kimbo

@ David Garrett

“Polynesians went to the Americas and back” has long been a discredited theory…not withstanding Thor Heyerdahl’s best efforts 60 years ago…

No, I always thought Heyerdahl’s thesis was that Polynesians originated in the Americas. Which we know, via genetics, and the discovery of Lapita pottery in the Bismarck Archipelago, they didn’t.

But if the Polynesians didn’t make it to the other side of the Pacific, how do you account for the kumara?

And I don’t see what over-whelming relevance the lack of evidence of Maori returning to the islands of the South Pacific has. The issue is “Polynesians”, not just one sub-group.

Or are you saying it is proof the Polynesians could only sail one way? If so, again, where and how did they get tubers?
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August 29, 2014 1:52pm
Odakyu-sen

I’m with Kimbo on this one.

Culture and legends may lay claim to almost any story, but the kumara, she don’t lie.

Specifically the DNA matching of ancient samples of kumara.
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August 29, 2014 2:42pm
Kimbo

@ Odakyu-sen

Plus if a Polynesian was prepared to marry David Garrett…that is surely proof of their remarkable bravery and capacity to suffer and endure long harrowing journeys with a tenuous destination! 😉
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August 29, 2014 2:46pm
UrbanNeocolonialist

Polynesians absolutely went to Australia – they just couldn’t survive there due to the nasty climate, and violent competition from more numerous aboriginals who were already well adapted to the place. Early European settlement of Australia only barely made it, and then only with the support of shipped food.

They also went to South America and learned how to cultivate kumara, and bought it back to the islands. http://www.stuff.co.nz/science/8213421/Kumara-origin-points-to-pan-Pacific-voyage

Amazingly Polynesians were also the first Madagascans.

Phenomenal navigators, tremendous natural athletes due to high levels of hand-to-hand warfare (typically around 3% killed per year in warfare in stone age settings) and benefits of storing any excess food as muscle (also a useful survival trait for long paddling voyages). Just as for other isolated groups evolutionarily lacking a long history of living in high population density civilisations where violent conflict is rare they have arrived at a different average genetic optima of natural physical and intellectual aptitudes. To pretend otherwise is PC nonsense.

Those differences are diminishing with every generation in the genetic melting pot that is NZ.
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August 29, 2014 2:55pm
Other_Andy

Kimbo (715 comments) says at 1:17 pm

“presumably the prevailing West-East head wind.”

They got as far as Norfolk Island so I don’t think that would be the case.

“Abel Tasman was so eager to avoid the infamy he managed to sail right around it without even knowing it was there!”

He mapped the north coast of Australia in 1644 and called it New Holland.

stephieboy says at 1:14 pm

Not the faintest where you are coming from.
Had a bad day at work?
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August 29, 2014 2:58pm
Kimbo

Australia AND Madagascar?!

What is the substantive evidence for that?

British-Israelism was always a load of psuedo-science, but it seems like you are not far from arguing you’ve located the missing 12th tribe!
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August 29, 2014 2:58pm
Komata

FWIW:

It is a verifiable fact that for now totally-unknown reasons, the Maori, having arrived in New Zealand from the Marquesas islands (now French Polynesia) , seemingly lost the ability or inclination to return whence they had come. Although it could be argued that the technology they used (ocean-going canoes) was a factor in this, it is very noticeable that even when Maori became traders and owned their own ‘Western-type) sailing vessels (which in respect of seagoing capability were superior to what they had been used to operating) during the early Nineteenth Century, there was absolutely no inclination to return to, or trade with the Pacific Islands that they had originated from. The inclination was rather to indulge in trade with both Sydney and Melbourne, a trade BTW, in which they were very successful, and in direct competition with the European ship owners / masters.

Indeed, it was largely thanks to the efforts of Dr. David Lewis that Maori actually came to ‘remember’ their ocean-going achievements, a fact which ultimately resulted in a series of waka journeys across the Pacific. Prior to Dr. Lewis’s various voyages, nothing had been done in that regard and as already noted, it is as if Maori wilfully forgot their origins. The legends that told of the trans-oceanic migrations were certainly ‘in full view’ but the inclination to replicate said voyages was noticeably very absent.

Although in respect of trans-Tasman sea journeys, it has already been pointed-out that the prevailing winds do tend to discourage such practices. However, these are not constant and it is possible to traverse the Tasman Sea at various times of the year, while returning from Australia is assisted by these self-same winds. However, due to its location, the Tasman IS one of the roughest stretches of water on the planet and while modern yachts can and do cross it regularly, whether an ocean-going canoe made from logs and with flax for ropes etc. could withstand the voyage is something that could be debated. Noticeably AFAIK, there has never been any attempt by ‘modern’ ocean-going waka to try, and Maori legends bear no reference to the existence of any land mass to the south of New Zealand. The existence of the land masses of Australia and Antarctica appear to have been unknown. On this basis, therefore, it must be concluded that Maori, despite having extensively explored the Pacific to the North of the country never undertook the same exercise in the seas to the South and West of these islands.

The reasons why such explorations were not undertaken will, of course, never be known.

As I said, FWIW. It’s an interesting topic.
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August 29, 2014 2:59pm
Scott Chris

Very likely Polynesians did travel to South America and back around 900BP:

http://www.nature.com/news/dna-shows-how-the-sweet-potato-crossed-the-sea-1.12257

Re the race issue, I suspect that if a million Jews were to have their brains swapped at birth with a million Polynesians you’d see very little difference in social outcome from what we currently see.
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August 29, 2014 3:02pm
Other_Andy

UrbanNeocolonialist says at 2:55 pm

“Polynesians absolutely went to Australia”

First time I have heard that.
Got any links for that?

As for American links, I posted this yesterday

The Kennewick Man

His closest living relatives appear to be the Moriori people of the Chatham Islands, a remote archipelago 420 miles southeast of New Zealand, as well as the mysterious Ainu people of Japan. . . .

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/kennewick-man-finally-freed-share-his-secrets-180952462
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August 29, 2014 3:04pm
Kimbo

It is a verifiable fact that for now totally-unknown reasons, the Maori, having arrived in New Zealand from the Marquesas islands (now French Polynesia) , seemingly lost the ability or inclination to return whence they had come.

Occam’s Razor: Can I suggest it was because New Zealand afforded everything – space, food, resources for clothing and housing – that prompted the journey in the first place, compared to the comparative scarcity they left behind?
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August 29, 2014 3:05pm
Kimbo

“Polynesians absolutely went to Australia”

First time I have heard that.
Got any links for that?

The GC?!
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August 29, 2014 3:11pm
Other_Andy

Kimbo says at 3:11 pm

The GC?!

🙂
Thanks for the laugh!
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August 29, 2014 3:14pm
UrbanNeocolonialist

Other_Andy: Polynesians went everywhere in the Pacific – how else would they find Hawaii, Pitcairn, Easter, Chatham, Auckland, Norfolk, New Caledonia, South America etc. While I haven’t seen any actual evidence it seems to me that in that context Australia is an impossibly big target to miss (and absence of evidence is not evidence of absence).
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August 29, 2014 3:27pm
J Bloggs

I’d suggest they did find Australia, along with New Guinea and other such island groups – which already had significant native populations (quite warlike ones in the case of New Guinea). Most likely, the polynesian explorers who made it there were killed by the inhabitants, so never reported the existance of such places back to the home islands.
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August 29, 2014 3:37pm
Komata

Re: Polynesians and the discovery of Oz: Could we clarify this please: Are we now talking about Polynesians ‘en masse’ or about (New Zealand) Maori specifically?

I ask this as, for the purposes of this discussion, and for clarity of content and subject, I would suggest that the two discussions either need to be separated or operate under ‘subheadings’ within the body of the post to which they refer.

BTW: It should be remembered that while the Polynesians were exploring their neighbourhood, the MELANESIANS were also doing the self-same thing (witness Fiji as an example) so it is not unlikely that both groups made contact with each other, probably with somewhat negative results…

Kimbo:

Point made. However, the question must therefore be asked, ‘Why did they not continue ‘South’ (the bear went over the mountain etc.) ‘just in case’ there was something even better over the horizon. If what they had found was ‘good’ would there be something ‘better’ over the (metaphorycal) hill ‘out there’?

Of course they might have done so, but if that had been the case, a legend (aka a ‘mythical story based on fact’) would have been the result, and. as such would probably be extant today. The absence of such stories suggests that perhaps the ‘event’ did not occur…
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August 29, 2014 3:43pm
J Bloggs

Komata: I was talking Polynesians in general, as some good reasons for NZ maori not going to Aus were outlined above.

re: going South – I would suggest that by the time you’ve gone down the South Island and Stewart Island, you’ve got a fair idea that its only getting colder, more windswept and inhospitable. NZ, climatewise, is already marginal for growing kumara, and there is little likelyhood of any other food source being further south that justifies the effort of going down there. Likewise, most exploration that occurs in inhospitible environments is usually driven by the search for some sort of wealth or resource (gold, oil, etc.), which was not a driving need for NZ Maori for most of the time they were here, as NZ already met most of their needs.

Again, I’d suggest that any Maori foolhardy enough to sail south from Stewart islands didn’t survive the roaring 40’s to find anything, let alone return home to tell of it
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August 29, 2014 3:53pm
J Bloggs

Having just said all that, I’ve just found out there is evidence of polynesian settlement on the Auckland Islands – so they did get that far south.
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August 29, 2014 4:00pm
Kimbo

Of course they might have done so, but if that had been the case, a legend (aka a ‘mythical story based on fact’) would have been the result, and. as such would probably be extant today. The absence of such stories suggests that perhaps the ‘event’ did not occur…

From memory Roland Huntford’s book Scott and Amundsen (1978, also published as “The Last Place on Earth”) commences with the reconting of a purported Polynesian myth that an explorer had travelled far to the south, penetrated a white wall, and came across two smioking volcanoes – all a good description of a journey to the end of McMurdo Sound.

I have no idea of what Huntford’s sources were…
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August 29, 2014 4:00pm
nasska

Worth considering are the currents that exist in the Pacific Ocean. Ref: https://www.dropbox.com/s/a9oo2txer2ec575/Currents.png?dl=0 . BWAV who comments here from time to time actually crewed for part of a canoe journey from NZ to Havaiki….he mentioned that part of the navigation process was determining the direction of the current flow.

Additionally they didn’t actually have to paddle great distances…..ocean going canoes had sails.
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August 29, 2014 4:26pm
Reid

How did they know to look for that guy working for the Ministry of Social Development who made those comments on the Whale Oil blog?…Apparently this worker signed a Ministry contract pledging “political neutrality in his professional role.” But commenting on a blog is not his professional role. (To be true, if this guy says beneficiaries are stupid for having children, it is a rather bad look for someone working at the Ministry of Social Development. A bit like someone working in the Ministry of Vegan Affairs commenting on a foodie blog about how much they like a rare eye-fillet steak.)

Yes it’d be an interesting employment court case wouldn’t it, if he did it on his spare time say during the lunch break. If he did it during work hours then he’s probably in a small amount of trouble in that he’s liable to receive a warning.

Normally the employment contract for civil servants says things along the lines of: do not bring the dept into disrepute and do not reveal anything you have discovered in your work here.

If he was not using his real name but was discovered because someone else hacked illegally into Whale’s computer and identified him using the materiel stolen therein, then he’s not guilty of bringing the dept into disrepute because his discovery was an act of force majeur and he didn’t identify himself as a Ministry employee when making said comment.

The comment about beneficiaries being stupid by having children is similarly hard to establish as being insider knowledge, isn’t it.

However it’d be really really good wouldn’t it if he’s a member of the PSA, because it would be simply hilarious watching them try to represent their member with integrity for commenting on Whale as he did.

And since one imagines there are any number of MSD employees who do things like say, bid on Trademe and comment on Facebook outside of lunch hours, then he’s got a bloody good case, you’d think.

And to all the pro-feminist wowsers both male and female, I don’t know he’s a guy, but I can’t be arsed using your approved P.C. diction of his/her, s/he etc etc etc etc etc etc etc because, well, you’re a bunch of wowsers and there’s nothing I enjoy more than making girly wowsers like your good selves apoplectic with unjustified faux rage – bwahahahaha – I hope you poohed your pants you girly wowsers you. And no, the irony that I could have written the above in your approved manner in half the time it’s taken to type this para, hasn’t escaped me. Bwahahaha, again.
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August 29, 2014 4:47pm
wreck1080

Most armies try to conceal war crimes .

ISIS is proud of them and wants everyone to know about the mass murders of prisoners.
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August 29, 2014 4:58pm
lurcher1948

gasp the living god had his dick in his hand in the great debates that cunliffe WON does this mean that KEY dosnt have a cock like most posters on kiwiblog,COCKLESS PUSSYS
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August 29, 2014 5:01pm
Nostradamus

Has medical science discovered a cure for Bainitis yet?

I ask this question because I see the Bainiacs are still going hammer-and-tongs at each other on the Crewes thread.
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August 29, 2014 5:19pm
dime

Kiwi rail is turning out to be a real asset.

Can’t believe we stole it back so cheap!
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August 29, 2014 5:28pm
tom hunter

Has medical science discovered a cure for Bainitis yet?

I’ve been tempted to go on the thread and suggest that – just to put some facts on the theory – they each practice the Robin Bain exercise with a loaded 22 rifle.

Kiwiblog should set up a straw poll as to the order they take the test.
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August 29, 2014 5:28pm
SGA

Nostradamus at 5:19 pm

I ask this question because I see the Bainiacs are still going hammer-and-tongs at each other on the Crewes thread.

Well… it’s been narrowed down to two possible offenders at least.
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August 29, 2014 5:31pm
SGA

Point made. However, the question must therefore be asked, ‘Why did they not continue ‘South’ (the bear went over the mountain etc.) ‘just in case’ there was something even better over the horizon. If what they had found was ‘good’ would there be something ‘better’ over the (metaphorycal) hill ‘out there’?

If the original migration to NZ was in some sense out of necessity, then there was no further need to go on – and no good reason to head back. Perhaps.
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August 29, 2014 5:40pm
ShawnLH

Did Uglytruth get banned? I notice he has not been around lately. Not that I want him to be. Just curious.
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August 29, 2014 5:51pm
Nostradamus

ShawnLH: I think he was last seen in Canada investigating the forced disappearance of ten Canadian children in 1964.

Or, possibly, he may have got sidetracked with another very important matter:

UglyTruth (2,167 comments) says:
September 24th, 2013 at 1:31 pm

So you are going to go with “the queen is a lizard”?

No. All I’m saying is that there is enough seriously odd evidence to consider the possibility than a malevolent alien force or species has an active interest in western political institutions. It’s an outcome of the denial of the nature of UFOs, the western history of treachery and genocide, the Bohemian Grove connection between western elites and the occult, and the association between genocide, Nazis, the occult, and the Bush crime family.

Now that’s surely worth investigating!
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August 29, 2014 5:54pm
Colville

ShawnLH.

Aint it great? 🙂
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August 29, 2014 5:54pm
SGA

ShawnLH at 5:51 pm

Did Uglytruth get banned? I notice he has not been around lately. Not that I want him to be. Just curious.

I wondered about that too. I don’t remember noticing anything cyclical in his posting.
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August 29, 2014 5:54pm
Pete George

I think Ugly Truth was recently banned at The Standard but I doubt it here. People often have things to do other than comment here.
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August 29, 2014 6:11pm
Reid

All I’m saying is that there is enough seriously odd evidence to consider the possibility than a malevolent alien force or species has an active interest in western political institutions.

I wonder if the people who didn’t bother seriously to consider that statement have any idea whatsoever what the “seriously odd evidence” is and if not, what does that say about their perspicacity, if they think they already know what the answer is, given this world we live in?

Just saying.

Next up: Shawn falsely accuses me of being a Jew hater for reasons known only to him.

Meanwhile, those who don’t know what’s happening because they don’t care to, continue believing the Western meme ISIS is a Muslim grassroots organisation, cos the telly tells them so.

Just saying.
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August 29, 2014 6:18pm
kowtow

ugly truth silenced?

he probably stood too close to a microwave oven and his tin foil hat fryed what was left of his last brain cell.
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August 29, 2014 6:19pm
kowtow

TVNZ news slagging New Zealand off. Our first acton in WW1 ,Samoa.

If we’re so shit, how come so many Samoans are happy to live with us war criminals and inept colonials?

TVNZ,cultural marxist traitors.
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August 29, 2014 6:28pm
Judith

I hate these bloody adverts!

I suppose we have Hager to thank for that!

Kiwiblog gets promoted in his book, more visitors, increase the ads = more profit.

That bloody Hager has a lot to answer for! 🙂
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August 29, 2014 6:41pm
Odakyu-sen

Nostradamus is Ugly Truth.

I claim my carton of chocolate fish as a prize…
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August 29, 2014 6:44pm
UrbanNeocolonialist

Scott Chris: If Ashkenazic Jewish brains replaced all Polynesian they would own New Zealand within 2 generations – just as they turned Israel from a tiny parched resourceless shithole to one of the highest GDP countries in the world. There are significant differences between the average cognitive abilities of humans that have evolved in different cultures – Ashkenazics had strong selection pressures for hundreds of years that meant only their smartest had children (due to Christian persecution in Europe), over time this yielded about 15 point higher average IQ (1 standard deviation). They also have a few other problems with Tay Sachs and some other genetic problems, but evolution determined that these were prices worth paying, even though in most other respects they were genetically almost identical to non-Jews they lived amongst.

Similarly it appears that children of rich families tend to select the best possible (successful/attractive) mates and as a result wealthy families similarly manage to maintain average IQ’s of roughly 15 points above average – allowing dynasties to be maintained.

IQ (or more accurately general intelligence ‘g’) can be measured directly by tests and inferred by a huge number of indirect tests and measures – from performance in education to various life outcomes. It sucks, and is horribly unfair but it is real, and requires a special sort of irrationality to deny it’s reality given what we have all seen in our schooling and lives. We all know the lucky are born smart the unlucky stupid, with very little influence from Nurture.

An interesting example of impacts of differences in g is in Male to Female differences.
http://www.iqcomparisonsite.com/sexdifferences.aspx
Males and Female have almost identical averages (perhaps very small advantage to men due to slightly larger brains), but there is significantly higher standard deviation for men – the consequence being that there are far more men than women at the edges of the bell curve. Twice as many male geniuses (>130) as female, and by the time you get to super intelligent range this means many times as many men as women. But as a sort of balance there are also many times more really low IQ men than women. It is postulated that this is due to the lower evolutionary costs of experimenting on males – a successful man can have 100’s of children, failures have none, but women are limited to 5-10 regardless. So in a truly egalitarian society there should be far more men than women in roles requiring elite cognitive performance, angry feminist howling notwithstanding.
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August 29, 2014 6:46pm
Nostradamus

Odakyu-sen:

Nostradamus is Ugly Truth.

I claim my carton of chocolate fish as a prize…

Actually, Odakyu-sen, I’m you, UglyTruth is me, and you’re UglyTruth – hopefully you’re ok with that? 🙂
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August 29, 2014 6:48pm
nasska

Incredible the amount of crap the MSM feeds us on a daily basis.

Ref: https://www.dropbox.com/s/pc0r1met32dvsgu/Propaganda.jpg?dl=0
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August 29, 2014 6:52pm
Black with a Vengeance

If we’re so shit, how come so many Samoans are happy to live with us war criminals and inept colonials?

White women…mmmmm yummmy!!!
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August 29, 2014 6:55pm
nasska

The poor women! They expect a warrior & end up with a fat gutted house pet with a micro penis. 🙂
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August 29, 2014 6:59pm
Black with a Vengeance

^^^and genetically superior offspring.
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August 29, 2014 7:00pm
nasska

Subjective in the extreme Sootie…..in any case a few years of too much KFC coupled with too little work & their tattooed arses hang down to the back of their knees.

Just like their fathers. 🙂
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August 29, 2014 7:06pm
Milk Me

^^^^ Usually found congregating in jails.
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August 29, 2014 7:08pm
Black with a Vengeance

haha…jealous much!
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August 29, 2014 7:13pm
Redbaiter

Hey Narsekissa – these people are the products of the cultural decline you progs/ social liberals have presided over. IOW, you’re to large degree responsible for the outcomes you’re objecting to you smug impotent hillbilly whackjob.
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August 29, 2014 7:15pm
Black with a Vengeance

You get the natives you deserve 🙂
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August 29, 2014 7:16pm
Nostradamus

One thing you can’t take credit for, BWAV, is the term “bobbittize“- not to be confused with “Hobbit-sized” of course!
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August 29, 2014 7:17pm
Redbaiter

“Did Uglytruth get banned? I notice he has not been around lately. Not that I want him to be.”

That’s not correct. IMHO nobody gave him as much oxygen as you, even when numerous commenters were begging you to desist.
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August 29, 2014 7:20pm
Black with a Vengeance

Sorry nostradamus…have no fucking idea what the relevance of your post is in the context of the conversation unless you just wanted us to know you’re into genital mutilation and dwarf porn ?

different strokes for different folks and ain’t nothing as queer as folk.
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August 29, 2014 7:23pm
Nostradamus

Oh sorry, BWAV, you cleary missed the part where Nasska mentioned a “fat gutted house pet with a micro penis”. You seemingly approved of that description, because you then added “^^^and genetically superior offspring”.
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August 29, 2014 7:25pm
Black with a Vengeance

On the contrary i dont disapprove. I think it’s aspirational.

Big dicks are over rated.
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August 29, 2014 7:29pm
Black with a Vengeance

It’s every island boys dream to be a fat gutted house pet with a micro penis and still have some dirty white bitch suck hard on it and cook dinner every night.

nighty night boys 😉
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August 29, 2014 7:31pm
Ross12

I note on the Yahoo News they say 631,000 watched the debate last night. does anyone know how they work out these figures??
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August 29, 2014 7:35pm
dad4justice

Just helped the local conservative candidate erect a billboard on the Main North Road.
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August 29, 2014 7:39pm
Reid

I note on the Yahoo News they say 631,000 watched the debate last night. does anyone know how they work out these figures??

Yeah.

They tie a blindfold and then stab the keyboard and whatever it says is good, unless it contradicts their pre-determined number, in which case they award themselves another try.

This is not well known, simply because if it were, everyone would be a journalist.
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August 29, 2014 7:40pm
nasska

Too useless to do it himself was he Dad? 🙂
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August 29, 2014 7:42pm
dad4justice

No narsekisser he was only a young chap called Hamish and I thought I would help out because it was in front of my local pub that the sign went up. I think my actions got the conservatives a couple of dozen extra votes. He shout me a beer and the land lady of the pub said she and her husband will vote for him.
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August 29, 2014 7:51pm
Reid

You get the natives you deserve

No we get the natives who hallucinate they don’t owe us anything.

Plus we get the natives who know they do.

Since the latter group is well enough educated prior to arrival they know despite agents provocateur like yourself they do owe us something in return for us educating their kids and giving them support while they find their feet etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc and all of those etceteras.

But some of the scum like you, don’t for some reason appreciate all that largesse and not only seek to undermine your host like the parasite you in fact are, you seek also to encourage others to become like you. Meanwhile, you complain we’re not giving you enough, so you can continue your parasitic existence, just like a parasite does.

Correct me Black where I’m wrong, but pray back your corrections up with your previous comments. If you can find any which contradict the poison I just outlined.
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August 29, 2014 8:00pm
Scott Chris

Urbaneocolonialist – Do you know of a reputable study that shows that an average well developed Polynesian brain is physiologically any different from an average well developed Jewish brain?

Also I’d be curious to know how the average Roman occupied Briton’s brain condition and IQ compared to their average browner occupier.

Ashkenazics had strong selection pressures for hundreds of years

Oh, and a warrior culture didn’t? I’d say the smart strong warrior would beat the less smart strong warrior. (ie ‘smart’ and ‘strong’ genes are selected in a warrior culture)

Similarly it appears that children of rich families tend to select the best possible (successful/attractive) mates

So selecting a good looking mate adds to the ‘smart’ gene pool any more than selecting a robust looking mate?

Note: my hypothetical brain swapping analogy was heavily flawed in that I gave the point of swapping to be ‘at birth’. To make a fair comparison the condition of the sperm and egg and their incubation also has to be on average the same as the respective counterpart.
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August 29, 2014 8:03pm
nasska

It was spring in the old west. The cowboys rode the still snow-choked trails looking for cattle that survived the winter. As one cowboy’s horse went around the narrow trail, it came upon a rattlesnake warming itself in the spring sunshine. The horse reared and the cowboy drew his six-gun to shoot the snake.

“Hold on there, partner” said the snake “don’t shoot – I’m an enchanted rattlesnake, and if you don’t shoot me, I’ll give you any three wishes you want”.

The cowboy decided to take a chance. He knew he was safely out of the snake’s striking range. He said “Okay, first, I’d like to have a face like Clark Gable, then, I’d like a body like Arnold Schwarzenegger and finally, I’d like sexual equipment like this horse I’m, riding”. The rattlesnake said “All right, when you get back to the bunk house you’ll have all three wishes”.

The cowboy turned his horse around and galloped at full speed all the way to the bunk house. He dismounted on the run and went straight inside to the mirror. Staring back at him in the mirror was the face of Clark Gable. He ripped the shirt off his back and revealed bulging, rippling muscles, just like Arnold Schwarzenegger’s.

Really excited now, he tore down his jeans, looked at his crotch and shouted “My God, I forgot I was riding the mare!”
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August 29, 2014 8:05pm
Viking2

“Russel Norman says he is more of a disciple of market forces than is the National Party.” This wouldn’t be hard. “‘Everyone says National doesn’t pick winners,’ says Norman, ‘but if you look at what they’re actually doing, they’re not pro-market, they’re Muldoonist.’” This too is true. But Russel?

=================
Not often one agrees with Norman but i do in this case.
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August 29, 2014 8:09pm
Scott Chris

Hi BWAV – don’t you guys have Asian dicks? 😉
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August 29, 2014 8:10pm
UrbanNeocolonialist

Scott: The differences in brain function that create big cognitive performance differences are very subtle being mostly to do with small variations in brain chemistry and microscopic-scale structure, generally impossible to detect except in their emergent behaviour, and perhaps in rare cases with dissection under a microscope.

We do know that Nurture effects like eliminating childhood disease and good consistent nutrition with no deprivation as well as good education have a significant positive effect – average European IQ increased by perhaps 15-20 points over the 20th century (the “Flynn Effect”), though has topped out now.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flynn_effect
There are sizeable average IQ differences between poor Africans and their immigrant cousins in the West that can be chalked up to these Nurture aspects. However there are also big differences between groups who’s recent genetic heritage have evolved subject to the pressures of different cultures that can’t be put down to Nurture.

As to IQ of Roman Britons and Roman Soldiers – who knows, I believe the soldiers were mostly not from Italy anyway, being drawn from native populations all over the empire who served to gain Roman citizenship, but modern experience suggests that cultures subject to persistent violent conflict (killing large portions of their population every generation) rather than other forms of competition have not produced the highest average intelligence.

Take for example the Europe of the last 1000 years where the genes of rich/successful merchants and business people who out-competed their peers in making political and business decisions as well as working hard dominated the gene pool. A rich merchant or aristocrat might have had 10+ children (legitimate and illegitimate) who made it to adulthood. The poor peasant would be lucky to have one survive as the more advantaged children of richer people took the land/resources that their children needed. Rich people could also often escape warfare and plagues and survive famines with their wealth. They are the majority ancestors of all Europeans. In short smart decisions + work ethic were strongly determined evolutionary ‘fitness’, martial prowess was just not important.

From what I know of pre-European Maori and polynesian culture women + male slaves did basically all the work (ultimately under threat of violence from men), the men doing only martial pursuits and some fishing/hunting (Read “Old New Zealand” by Manning). A work ethic was probably little rewarded, and intelligence while always useful was not as important as marital prowess/physical strength and dexterity in determining social status and allowing you to procreate. So evolutionary ‘fitness’ was strongly influenced by martial prowess, perhaps less so amongst more peaceful Ngai Tahu who were mostly fighting with the environment to survive.

I realise that the picture this paints is ugly, and counter to the ideals of equality and the improvability of man fundamental to socialist doctrine, but evolution doesn’t care about our sensibilities, and we can probably come up with better social policy if we stop pretending it doesn’t exist. With luck we will eventually be able to medicinally optimise brain function to level the playing field.
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August 29, 2014 9:35pm
Black with a Vengeance

Combine the euro intelligence with the poly physical prowess and you get me and mine 🙂

I dont think you’re ready for this jelly!
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August 30, 2014 1:43am
Black with a Vengeance

Meanwhile, you complain we’re not giving you enough

No complaints here cuz.

perhaps you got me confused with some other nigga :p
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August 30, 2014 1:49am
Maggy Wassilieff

Bit late to the Pacific voyaging debate, I know,… but I’ve just taken the quick option to the Americas and seem to be out of sync with NZ time.
Why don’t you fullas all come up to speed at the same time and check out some of the entries on Te Ara on Polynesian voyaging,
(Geoff Irwin, in particular, http://www.teara.govt.nz/en/pacific-migrations/page-6)? Then we don’t have to cover old ground about return voyages, El Nino weather influences, plant and animal imports, etc.
Of course there’s stuff that’s still a bit vague… and I have no doubt that lots of canoes were lost en voyage… but the fact remains.. humans got to these far-flung islands.

I’ve read that one of the key factors for the success of the Polynesians in voyaging long distances was their large body frame. (i.e. selection for strength and ability to store body fat). This may have been just as important for their survival as their navigational skills.
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August 30, 2014 5:43am

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