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August 13, 2014 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 13 August 2014

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Dennis Horne

Like Jamie Whyte, I am left scratching my head. Wasn’t this the media and public response to his comments? Parody. Not enough clues? See, you don’t need to be Maori to be equal. Oh, the irony.

Dennis Horne (2,062 comments) says: August 12th, 2014 at 8:03 am. Hidden due to low comment rating.

Some lessons in straight and crooked thinking. If it’s wrong it’s illegal, and if it’s not illegal it’s okay. Like incest is bad and adultery is good. Got that? Quick guys, abandon your families, Jamie Whyte expects you to marry your sister.

Maori seats do not create a difference, or inequality. They do not confer privilege. After all, the French aristocrats had their heads chopped off. Hardly a privilege! And they weren’t even tattooed. Fortunately, if being Maori is a disadvantage there is no compulsion to go on the Maori roll. But, if you feel disadvantaged your ancestors were mostly European, you can be Maori, if you feel like it. No one expects you to go back to living under bracken and eating your neighbours. No, it’s a house and handouts for you I’m afraid.

Jamie! Fancy going on Maori Television and not knowing about Whanau Ora! It distributes millions at a community level for health and social services. It has a focus on Maori, but is open to all. See, you don’t need to be Maori to be equal.

Unpopular. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 44
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August 13, 2014 8:01am
Viking2

Cold today.
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August 13, 2014 8:07am
hj

Chris Trotter believes it is the duty of a leader to override the overwhelming view of a majority. He has a Helen Clark complex
http://bowalleyroad.blogspot.co.nz/2014/08/the-responsibilities-of-power.html
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August 13, 2014 8:07am
Griff

Poes law Dennis.
The law and its meaning

Poe’s law, in broader form, states:

Without a blatant display of humor, it is impossible to create a parody of extremism or fundamentalism that someone won’t mistake for the real thing.[3]

The core of Poe’s law is that a parody of something extreme, by nature, becomes impossible to differentiate from sincere extremism. A corollary of Poe’s law is the reverse phenomenon: sincere fundamentalist beliefs can be mistaken for a parody of those beliefs
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August 13, 2014 8:08am
kowtow

A smal insight into coverage of Gaza .

http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/foreign_press_association_finally_attacks_hamas_for_threatening_journalists/
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August 13, 2014 8:09am
flash2846

Harawira going on about child poverty; what crap from him and his ilk. Maori have 37 billion dollars worth of cash and assets donated to them that should be distributed immediately.
They wont though because they are the most greedy, parasitical race on the planet.

[DPF: 20 demerits]
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August 13, 2014 8:10am
mjw

The Civilian Party has been registered.
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August 13, 2014 8:11am
flipper

Anyone know what Hager does for a crust – apart from writing fiction every three or so years?
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August 13, 2014 8:12am
hj

Gareth Morgan on Jamie Whyte and Susan devoy:

Critics can legitimately question whether affirmative action policies are effective at addressing disadvantage, or whether they are available to everyone in genuine need, but they cannot credibly reject them on the grounds they are deviations from political equality. They simply aren’t – or shouldn’t be, if properly designed – political in nature.

We’re not aware of any robust evaluations of New Zealand’s parallel entry policies to elite university courses, the affirmative action policy that bothered Whyte. So we’re not defending the policies as being effective or inclusive (is parallel entry available to Pasifika, refugees and the disabled, for example? It should be). In fact, we’d say New Zealand has to get serious about evaluating policies like this if it hopes to make any inroads into disadvantage.

Despite claims to the contrary, it is not the case, either, that unique political rights are necessary in order to address Maori disadvantage. Yet that seems to be Devoy’s position.

http://garethsworld.com/blog/uncategorized/maori-political-rights-disadvantage-separate-issues/
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August 13, 2014 8:12am
kowtow

Hopefully the useless, craven Liberal Democrats in the UK will be crushed and consigned to the rubbish bin of history at the next GE there.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2723121/British-arms-exports-Israel-blocked-ceasefire-Gaza-breaks-Vince-Cable-announces.html
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August 13, 2014 8:13am
EAD

Sorry Dennis, let me fix that for you. That wasn’t the public’s reaction to Whytes comments, it was the medias and our political elites reaction to his comments.

Big difference
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August 13, 2014 8:14am
gravedodger

Hello Denis, when “Judith” welcomed you back I saw only little gain and potential for tears.

New Zealand is growing up, sadly you are in a time warp and so bereft of material you are forced to climb deeper into the sewer for relevance.

Whyte called for consideration of decriminalising of incest.
Just as the enlightened souls who saw little benefit to anyone, in getting government and law out of what consenting adults should wish to do in private around homosexuality, even if usurping the status of marriage was a step too far, many accept there is nothing to gain by subsequent prosecution of transgression of archaic and very rarely used laws of incest.

There was never any suggestion Whyte was advocating for incest to be normalised or made compulsory.

Incest law when considered in sync with pornography, assault, indecency and child sex law is entirely redundant c2014.

Hop over to wherever Judy hangs out and have a circle jerk you desperate numpty.
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August 13, 2014 8:18am
hj

Ian Wishart’s new book Totalitaria his most controversial ever

MEDIA STATEMENT

Investigative journalist Ian Wishart says his new book Totalitaria is his most controversial ever.

The 32 year news veteran has turned his attention to globalisation and the powerful groups working behind the scenes to put a new world political and economic structure in place.

Already the author of five #1 bestsellers, Wishart says there are no sacred cows spared in Totalitaria.

“It is extremely hard hitting and no one on the left or right is spared. If you matched up The Truman Show with The Omen, Totalitaria is the story you’d end up with,” he said.
…………
First I’ve heard of it. That’s the power of the liberal elite. Not that I’m a climate skeptic or born again but we should hear about it.
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August 13, 2014 8:18am
Dennis Horne

Yes, Gareth, I see that having Maori seats is not political.

I would like to apologise for being a man, we are certainly a stupid creature.
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August 13, 2014 8:21am
Keeping Stock

David Cunliffe rocked up to Palmerston North yesterday and held out the carrot of a possible inland port for the city if Labour gets elected. Those pundits suggesting Iain Lees-Galloway is facing a real dog-fight with Jono Naylor must be right then…

http://keepingstock.blogspot.co.nz/2014/08/just-coincidence.html
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August 13, 2014 8:22am
RF

Listening to full moon King being put on the ropes by Hosking & Joyce during their Wednesday ZB roundup. She is gabbling / gobbling away like a turkey in the mating season trying to deflect questions about Dot Crim being a partner in the Labour Govt. Poor old thing… Everyone is picking on her. Now she trying to justify their free medical visits for the elderly. More gabbling.
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August 13, 2014 8:23am
kowtow

I’ve heard commentators talking about”our” jihadis who travel abroad to fight non Sunnis and they seem to soft talk and compare them to the likes of the International Brigaders in Spain,romantics fighting fascism blah blah

The reality,as we know, is very different.

They are genocidal maniacs and I hope the US air strkes get the lot of them.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iraq/11029765/Iraq-crisis-the-last-stand-of-the-Yazidis-against-Islamic-State.html
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August 13, 2014 8:24am
oldpark

Watched the Labour Party Channel TVNZ news last evening.Was intrigued to see a cue reader by the name of Simon Dellow and a guy called Corrin Dann.One segment was about a person with a womans name called Nicky.Seems at this time of the election cycle Nicky reveals fantasy fairytale political story’s ,which he seems to make up.Well both Dellow and Mr Red Jeans or is it Mr Cream Jeans, Dann were virtually wetting themselves to think that the person called Nicky would whet their appetites, to the point his fantasties might bring down a National Government,at least that was the perception given to their audience.Instead hopefully the opposite,that our dedicated GCSB men and women are forever in full alert to protect us all in the nation of NZ against ISIS type terrorists rampaging through NZ ,murdering and beheading women and children and burying them alive ,as we are seeing daily in Iraq.We see and hear daily the Commie Greens,and the criminal SCHMIDZ/DOTCON wanting our security system disbanded.Interesting the mouthpieces that are screaming the loudest are an Australian called Russel Norman ,and a German called Schmidz,from Dotcon Party.Hopefully the person called Nicky will not ,with his fantasies and conspiracy utterances join the imported radicals,calling for the demise of the GCBS.
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August 13, 2014 8:24am
Judith

@ flash2846 (183 comments) says:
August 13th, 2014 at 8:10 am

If child ‘poverty’ (I prefer the word deprivation) involved only Maori children, you would have a point, however it doesn’t. Children of all cultures in New Zealand are not being provided with what this country deems as minimum standards of care. That is, they are deprived of basic needs according to what we expect them to have.

When we have governments (not just this one) who insist on picking up the parenting role, and providing assistance to couples who chose to have a baby, to people who don’t save or insure themselves against illness, who subsidize parents in caring for their children, and even pay for burial costs for some (despite the fact we all know we are going to die, from the day we are born, we have time to prepare for that) – when we have a dependence on government to fix even part of what we should be responsible for ourselves, and allow that to continue for generations, increasing state dependence, then how can we sensibly expect anyone to know that it is up to them to provide for their children – regardless of culture?
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August 13, 2014 8:25am
Judith

@ Dennis Horne (2,064 comments) says:
August 13th, 2014 at 8:21 am

Good to see you Dennis – and know you are still with us!

No need to apologise, women have known that for years ! 😉
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August 13, 2014 8:30am
flash2846

@ Yes Judith, I get your point somewhat except that the funds have been taken from New Zealanders of European, Asian and Polynesian decent and therefore should be distributed to ALL in need.
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August 13, 2014 8:31am
Pete George

Why has overt anti-Semitism only surfaced in the 2014 election, and not the 2011 one?

http://yournz.org/2014/08/13/why-has-overt-anti-semitism-surfaced/
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August 13, 2014 8:36am
EAD

Thomas Sowell once again on the money:

https://www.lewrockwell.com/2014/08/thomas-sowell/youre-the-wrong-race/

“If racism is the reason why there are so few blacks in Stuyvesant High School, why were blacks a far higher proportion in Stuyvesant in earlier times, as far back as 1938? Was there less racism in 1938? Was there less poverty among blacks in 1938?

We know that there were far fewer black children raised in single-parent homes back then and there was far less social degeneracy represented by things like gangsta rap. If Mayor de Blasio wants to solve real problems, let him take these on”

Marginalise the successful culture, promote and subsidise deginrate ways of life, and what do you think is going to happen you effete politicians
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August 13, 2014 8:39am
jp_1983

http://news.msn.co.nz/nationalnews/8889569/both-sides-fed-up-with-billboard-vandals

National believes billboard vandalism is worse this election than it’s been in the past.

… Here is the kicker
Mr Cunliffe says he hasn’t seen any of his own billboards defaced.

If you don’t have any billboards, how can any be defaced?
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August 13, 2014 8:41am
hj

Judith (7,990 comments) says:
We all have to know the deal from birth and governments need to stick to it.
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August 13, 2014 8:43am
Dennis Horne

gravedodger: Hop over to wherever Judy hangs out and have a circle jerk you desperate numpty.

Any chance, Judith? Sounds fun…
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August 13, 2014 8:44am
EAD

Sorry Pete, 3 billboards and 1 snide comment does not “overt anti-Semitism” make. Stop abusing the English language and turning this into a witch hunt.

Been to Europe recently? I’ll show you what anti-Semitism looks like
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August 13, 2014 8:44am
Judith

@ hj (6,536 comments) says:
August 13th, 2014 at 8:43 am

Yes, I agree, and that is the problem, because no government can simply cut the cord without giving people time to prepare.

Perhaps, and I doubt any government would be brave enough to do this, and certainly under MMP would not survive if they did- however, the state needs to implement a gradual reduction of support – timed at intervals to allow people to prepare. Such a move would need to be spread over 25 years, in order to take the generational effect into account.

Until then, we don’t need to move towards equality – we need to provide equity. Doing what is necessary, no matter how hard, to bring all up to the standard of being able to be self sufficient ( yes, I acknowledge there will always be a small number in society that will never reach that level, and they will always need to be supported).
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August 13, 2014 8:51am
UglyTruth

Pete George,

The unpleasant reality of Gaza is that the NZ state has to take a share of the blame, since the English elites were instrumental in enabling the creation of the Zionist state in Palestine. Religion also plays a part, with NZ’s HOS being the Anglican at the top of their social heirarchy, and the British Anglican William Hechler being central to British support for Herzl’s plan.
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August 13, 2014 8:57am
Pete George

EAD – see jp_1983’s comment at 8.41 – and there have been a number of observations of it being much worse this election, both the number of attacks and the offensiveness.
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August 13, 2014 8:59am
J Bloggs

EAD: but 3 billboards and one snide comment is where it all starts…..
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August 13, 2014 9:05am
Judith

@ EAD (720 comments) says:
August 13th, 2014 at 8:44 am

I find it extremely disturbing that people on this board are raving on about this issue.

A few weeks back one of them made a comment promoting the mass killing of Maori – and they received several upticks for their efforts. Not one person stated their offence at the remark.

Denigration of any group based on race, religion or sex is not on when done is such a disgusting manner – and yet this board, not only condones it, but many get approval for doing it, and worst still DPF ignores it, seemingly until there is political advantage to be made of it.

Gibson made a single disgusting personal attack to the PM, and whilst it was in extremely poor taste, it was no where near as severe as what some have advocated for Maori, PI’s, and even females on this site.

It is an appalling display of hypocrisy, and there is absolutely no defense any of them can offer for seemingly being ‘offended’ by one derogatory comment, whilst condoning the many others that appear on here, almost on a daily basis.
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August 13, 2014 9:05am
Igotta Numbum

Huge amounts of money is being shifted between the IMP parties, to help them continue in the election.

In light of the recent court ruling where DotCrim has to further fully disclose all his assets, if it is discovered that stuff that was previously not disclosed now includes all the dollars being pumped into IMP, can the courts request that the money be returned?

Further to that, if it is finally settled in court, that DotCrim’s money has been made by ill-gotten means, does that not make all participants in the IMP fiasco receivers of stolen money?
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August 13, 2014 9:08am
Lance

@UT
So your latest drivel is white British descendant NZers need to feel yet more shame, this time over policies of British politicians post WW1 in the Middle East?

I say fuck you and the horse that bought you to town!

That clear enough?
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August 13, 2014 9:09am
Manolo

Stephie must be drooling:
http://www.politico.com/story/2014/08/hillary-clinton-foreign-policy-liberals-109934.html
http://www.vox.com/2014/8/12/5992793/hillary-clintons-interview-shows-both-how-she-might-win-and-how-she
http://dailycaller.com/2014/08/11/flashback-obama-promises-no-vacations-for-himself-as-president-video/
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August 13, 2014 9:11am
Pete George

EAD: but 3 billboards and one snide comment is where it all starts…..

Yes, but it’s far more than that anyway. As well as “3 billboards and one snide comment”:

– Green culprit: http://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/311068/mp-slams-sign-taggers
– Culprit unknown: http://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/311068/mp-slams-sign-taggers
– Two convicted vandals were linked on KB a day or two ago
– Video of “fuck John Key” chants promoted by Internet Party
– Video of “fuck John Key” chants and effigy burning promoted on Facebook site (which has other examples of vandalism)

Etc etc. It looks worse quantity wise and the offensiveness has certainly escalated, especially the anti-Semitism.
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August 13, 2014 9:12am
EAD

@ Pete, this is the same kind of preposterous, over the top train of thought as saying NZ has a “rape culture” because of the actions of several individuals.

The reason I read blogs is to stumble across some independent thinkers. I may as well read the hooooorald if the debate is just a circle-jerk of bloggers repeating politicians talking points.
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August 13, 2014 9:13am
Judith

@ Pete George (23,009 comments) says:
August 13th, 2014 at 9:12 am

So tell me Pete, which party do you think will benefit most in the polls by the continuation and promotion of dialogue concerning this issue?
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August 13, 2014 9:15am
Mike Readman

Come Sept. 21, most of you guys will be crying in your conflakes thanks to this:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/10376693/Snowden-may-play-part-in-Hagers-latest-book-expose

Remember how “Seeds of Distrust” affected the 2002 election? Well, it’s about to happen again! All the spying on normal Kiwis will be exposed, along with Key’s lies about it.

National’s done!
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August 13, 2014 9:15am
iMP

So, I hear there is a protest today in AKL, in which black jihadist flags will be burned, criticism leveled at Muslims for ignoring human rights and committing grizzly sectarian crimes, including aid planes being shot at…said no one ever.

Meanwhile, the tens of thousands of Yazidis in Kurdistan/Iraq, surrounded by barbaric be-heading zealots (their victims include pregnant women and little christian children) have not heard from the Left, who are busy berating and harassing israel for being cosmopolitan and democratic and defending themselves from the 20,000 rockets shot at their civilians over the last 9 years.

Yup, its a balanced world.
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August 13, 2014 9:19am
Pete George

So tell me Pete, which party do you think will benefit most in the polls by the continuation and promotion of dialogue concerning this issue?

Who knows? The vandalism could be effective or it could backfire. Probably some of both, but time will tell if it might be significant one way or the other.

I don’t care who might or might not benefit from continuation of dialogue on it.

What benefits the least is democracy. And it puts our politics into further disrepute. A likely effect is to turn more people off politics and discourage them from voting.
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August 13, 2014 9:20am
Judith

@ Mike Readman (359 comments) says:
August 13th, 2014 at 9:15 am

I sincerely hope not, although I am not a National supporter, and will certainly not be giving them my vote, I do not believe we have another party that has the necessary ability to run the country at present, whilst at the same time defending the ongoing nastiness that has become prevalent in our politics, increasingly so during the last six years.

One only has to look at the archives on this site to find proof of how this nastiness has escalated since 2006/7.

I believe National will win – they will need to form a coalition government and make many concessions in order to do that. I also believe that John Key will retire from politics and not remain the full term, and that the next election will be held before three years is up. Then and only then, when New Zealand has learned its lesson, and new and stronger leadership will hopefully emerge, will we get a government worthy of the responsibility it has.
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August 13, 2014 9:21am
Dennis Horne

EAD: The reason I read blogs is to stumble across some independent thinkers.

Good luck. Horne’s law states: 90% of people are below “average”.

PS. I’m a long time ACT supporter even though Banks made me sick. We need thinkers like Jamie Whyte in Parliament.
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August 13, 2014 9:26am
Dennis Horne

Hope you’re warming your hands up, Judith.

Be back from my walk later. Then I have to carry on repairing a broken aircraft. But it’s nice to have something to look forward to…
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August 13, 2014 9:39am
muggins

Hi Dennis.
Havn’t heard from you for a while. You might want to pop in and have a look at the “Who killed the Crewe’s ” blog which has turned into a “Who killed the Bain’s ” blog.
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August 13, 2014 9:40am
Griff

“I have an idea about voting, how about on every ballot we include “None of the above”. People may laugh at that, but what that is, it is a vote of no confidence in your government and I’m willing to bet that in some elections, ‘None of the Above’ would win. Imagine if you won the election but lost to ‘None of the Above’. Wouldn’t that make you re-think your positions?”
― Jesse Ventura
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August 13, 2014 9:41am
EAD

Jesse Ventura would’ve made a great President. He certainly was a great governor of Minnesota.

I think Chuck Norris was a big supporter of his?

Don’t think those 2 would be needing any presidential bodyguards….
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August 13, 2014 9:44am
Manolo

The spreading of Auckland’s disease: 🙂
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2722830/Average-house-prices-central-London-hit-1-6m-capital-s-property-boom-shows-no-sign-slowing.html
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August 13, 2014 9:45am
UglyTruth

So your latest drivel is white British descendant NZers need to feel yet more shame, this time over policies of British politicians post WW1 in the Middle East?

Why should they be ashamed of something that they had no knowledge of and no involvement in?

My criticism was of the NZ state, not the NZ people. True statists lack the ability to distinguish between the two. This inability to distinguish is central to the core issue of Gaza of the state’s persecution on non-citizens. This lack of discernment is reinforced by the misrepresentation of the attitudes of Arab states towards Israel, for example the MSM misrepresentation of the Iranian “wipe them off the map” quote.
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August 13, 2014 9:47am
dime

“Listening to full moon King being put on the ropes by Hosking & Joyce during their Wednesday ZB roundup. She is gabbling / gobbling away like a turkey in the mating season trying to deflect questions about Dot Crim being a partner in the Labour Govt. Poor old thing… Everyone is picking on her. Now she trying to justify their free medical visits for the elderly. More gabbling.”

RF – she is hilarious when shes defending the indefensible.

Do labour really think people are buying the “we wont be in govt with dot com”. when asked if they will rule him out they try the old “we have”. then asked about confidence and supply and 400 words a minute ranting about ACT lol

I do wish Hosking would pick her up when she calls ACT nutjobs every week. he should just say – which policy annette? the one that offers more freedom to people? aka all of them?
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August 13, 2014 9:50am
Manolo

Annette “Full Moon King is living proof that Labour dinoaurs are still alive. All the veteran can do is lie and spin.

She should be reminded of her participation in the Ginga Hughes’ affair.
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August 13, 2014 9:54am
stephieboy

Ugly Truth, the facts are Israelis agreed to the UN 1947 partition plan the Palestinians and Arabs rejected it.

The Palestinian leadership now regret that decision.

http://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/Abbas-Arabs-erred-in-rejecting-1947-partition-plan

The wipe Israel off the map is one that boils down to specious semantics on Iran’s part.
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August 13, 2014 10:03am
IGM

flipper: This Hager jerk, I think, came to NZ with his Eastern Bloc parents for a better life, they being decent hard workers. He is now possibly leeching off them to provide funds for his three-yearly rant on behalf of the left. This country has done him well, along with his parents . . . he shows a lot of gratitude, not unlike Matches McSleezey of Wellington, another who has taken our hospitality, and kicked us in the guts. They all align with the fat slug from Germany.
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August 13, 2014 10:10am
mikenmild

Or you could wait to see what Hager’s book contains…
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August 13, 2014 10:45am
stephieboy

Iraq crisis: End ‘very near’ for Christianity after Isis takeover, says Bishop

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/iraq-crisis-bishop-of-baghdad-warns-end-could-be-

This will bring joy to Ugly Truth and other ISIS apologists . I do hope that NZ has the honor of taking this small community as refugees if it comes to it.

What an appalling tragedy and a huge moral failure of militant Islam.
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August 13, 2014 10:45am
Lance

The movie ‘Life of Brian’ caused controversy with the Christian Churches.
Many Christians believed it to be blasphemous.

The Christians became annoyed and wrote to the paper and complained on TV

Contrast that the the miserable joyless barbarians of Islam who are committing mass murder and genocide upon people they don’t think fully embrace their lunacy.
But hey, they have their fanboys even here on KB.

BTW if the Monty Python guys had made a movie like that about Mohamed I strongly suspect they would have their respect heads slowed sawed off before now.
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August 13, 2014 10:53am
UglyTruth

The wipe Israel off the map is one that boils down to specious semantics on Iran’s part.

Stevieboy, you seem to a knack for being wrong about pretty much everything.

http://www.antiwar.com/orig/norouzi.php?articleid=11025

The Actual Quote:

So what did Ahmadinejad actually say? To quote his exact words in Farsi:

“Imam ghoft een rezhim-e ishghalgar-e qods bayad az safheh-ye ruzgar mahv shavad.”

That passage will mean nothing to most people, but one word might ring a bell: rezhim-e. It is the word “regime.” pronounced just like the English word with an extra “eh” sound at the end. Ahmadinejad did not refer to Israel the country or Israel the land mass, but the Israeli regime. This is a vastly significant distinction, as one cannot wipe a regime off the map. Ahmadinejad does not even refer to Israel by name, he instead uses the specific phrase “rezhim-e ishghalgar-e qods” (regime occupying Jerusalem).

So this raises the question.. what exactly did he want “wiped from the map”? The answer is: nothing. That’s because the word “map” was never used. The Persian word for map, “nagsheh” is not contained anywhere in his original Farsi quote, or, for that matter, anywhere in his entire speech. Nor was the western phrase “wipe out” ever said. Yet we are led to believe that Iran’s president threatened to “wipe Israel off the map.” despite never having uttered the words “map.” “wipe out” or even “Israel.”

The Proof:

The full quote translated directly to English:

“The Imam said this regime occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time.”

Word by word translation:

Imam (Khomeini) ghoft (said) een (this) rezhim-e (regime) ishghalgar-e (occupying) qods (Jerusalem) bayad (must) az safheh-ye ruzgar (from page of time) mahv shavad (vanish from).
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August 13, 2014 10:54am
Pete George

Going by tweets from Harre, Dotcom and the Internet Party it seems that they might know in advance something about the content of Hager’s book.
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August 13, 2014 11:03am
UglyTruth

This will bring joy to Ugly Truth and other ISIS apologists

Is slander your new hobby now, stupid boy?
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August 13, 2014 11:05am
Lance

Oh look
UT is pissing on our legs and telling us it is raining.

So now Ahmadinejad didn’t want Israel wiped off the map.
I don’t think it takes a genius to figure out he didn’t want to nuke it, but sure as shit he wanted every Jew dead.

I asked some Jews in Israel what it was like during the 6 day war (up on the northern border where the Kibbutz I was on is located).
The reply was this; ” We knew Israels primary defense was it’s airforce, we watched most of our fighter jets get blown out of the sky above us in one day. We also knew if the Arabs came over the hills then no-one was going to survive”.
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August 13, 2014 11:14am
dime

geez herald, why even have this on your site? file under “who gives a fuck” or “hope it hurt”

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11308215

Some guy got a hot shot for raping & killing a young pregnant chick. it took him 26 mins to die and he gasped at one stage
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August 13, 2014 11:15am
All_on_Red

Mikey
Hagers book? Let me guess. Some smears against Key based on some dubious links from some lines in data provided by Snowden and with a research credit to Ugly Truth. Maybe Naomi Oreskes will make a guest appearance.
Same old, same old. The usual suspects at the Standard, the Media and various troughing leftie MPs will get excited while the rest of us yawn and vote National anyway.
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August 13, 2014 11:17am
dime

All On Red – bet the book gets a shit ton of press. the press are bored. they want a fight cause they are selfish hacks. if they can bring down a govt to the determent of a country, who cares.. fuck em
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August 13, 2014 11:20am
stephieboy

Ugly Truth, sorry your against ISIS and Radical Jihad after all and despite of your earlier mixed messages .!

Thus you unreservedly oppose radical Islam in all its manifestations including the desire of those like the Taliban to impose strict Sharia.?
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August 13, 2014 11:26am
Nookin

Key doesn’t seem fazed by Nicky Hagar

“”Most people know that Nicky Hager is a screaming Left-wing conspiracy theorist. He’s hardly an authority on these matters . . . I’m not terribly worried.” “
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August 13, 2014 11:27am
Fletch

A journalist riding along on one of the helicopters that are supposed to be delivering aid in Iraq says that 70% of the Yazidis are dead. Officials say that much of the food aid being dropped from helicopters is useless, because they drop it from 15,000 feet without parachutes and it explodes on impact.

On board Iraqi army helicopter delivering aid to the trapped Yazidis, Jonathan Krohn sees a hellish sight
Mount Sinjar stinks of death. The few Yazidis who have managed to escape its clutches can tell you why. “Dogs were eating the bodies of the dead,” said Haji Khedev Haydev, 65, who ran through the lines of Islamic State jihadists surrounding it.

On Sunday night, I became the first western journalist to reach the mountains where tens of thousands of Yazidis, a previously obscure Middle Eastern sect, have been taking refuge from the Islamic State forces that seized their largest town, Sinjar.

I was on board an Iraqi Army helicopter, and watched as hundreds of refugees ran towards it to receive one of the few deliveries of aid to make it to the mountain. The helicopter dropped water and food from its open gun bays to them as they waited below. General Ahmed Ithwany, who led the mission, told me: “It is death valley. Up to 70 per cent of them are dead.”

Two American aid flights have also made it to the mountain, where they have dropped off more than 36,000 meals and 7,000 gallons of drinking water to help the refugees, and last night two RAF C-130 transport planes were also on the way.

However, Iraqi officials said that much of the US aid had been “useless” because it was dropped from 15,000ft without parachutes and exploded on impact.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iraq/11024037/Iraq-crisis-It-is-death-valley.-Up-to-70-per-cent-of-them-are-dead.html
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August 13, 2014 11:30am
UglyTruth

So now Ahmadinejad didn’t want Israel wiped off the map.

On this question his translator said: we have been condemned for many things because we said justice for all … the rule of law for all … we say for occupation to be wiped … for war-seeking to be wiped…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4thIsiCYqMg
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August 13, 2014 11:33am
Nookin

It will be all about unlawful spying and will condemn surveillance on a government’s own citizens like that nice Aussie man whose nephew was carting someone’s held around as a good luck charm.
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August 13, 2014 11:34am
G152

Dennis
Be back from my walk later. Then I have to carry on repairing a broken aircraft. But it’s nice to have something to look forward to…

=========
I hope that its a model
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August 13, 2014 11:37am
Odakyu-sen

Ugly Truth

Words are used to convey meanings. The role of the translator is to convey the meaning. This sometimes brings the translator into conflict with the actual words used. In such a situation, the translator must ask herself* “I know he said XXX, but what did he really mean to his intended audience?”

In this case, the translator of Ahmadinejad’s statements may have been more accurate than literal words Ahmadinejad uttered.

*Translators are often women.

Please bear this in mind with all translations of emotive messages.
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August 13, 2014 11:39am
Lance

@dime
This whole complex execution by injection thing is all a bit odd.

It’s actually quite easy to kill someone painlessly and safely for those round about.
Use nitrogen to displace the oxygen in a simple hood/ gas chamber.
The feeling is supposed to be of euphoria before unconsciousness and later death.

Simple, cheap and effective.
They don’t have to rely on some supplier refusing to supply nitrogen for execution, simple enough to extract from the air in-house with the appropriate equipment.

Very odd all the lengths and complexity they seem to go to for all the different options.

That being said I don’t actually support the death sentence, especially in somewhere like the US where the law and justice are often 2 different things.
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August 13, 2014 11:40am
kowtow

Lance

Al Jazeera yesterday reported that 2 men were beheaded for blasphemy and 2 others crucified for consorting with apostates by ISIS in Syria in Raqaa. Sorry can’t find lnk.

BTW ,I’ve always been a fan of Monty P ,however I’ve never believed their subsequent lie that “life” was about organised religion,it was an undisguised assault on Christianity and “Meaning” more partcularly on Catholicism.For all that they’re entitled to produce what they like.Just don’t pretend it is something other than what it was.

In this day of apologies and righting the wrongs of the past I’d have a lot more respect for them if they now produced a comdey on The Life of Abdul .

It’ll never happen.
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August 13, 2014 11:42am
All_on_Red

Dime
Yep, and Hagar will get fawning suck up interviews and be on Campbell Live followed by lots of dinner party invites and free drinks in Courtney Place for a couple of months from staff at MFAT and where Mikey ( pretends to) work.
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August 13, 2014 11:46am
stephieboy

Ugly Truth, a more sober and objective analysis of what President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said and did not say compare to what anti Israel and Iran apologist Juan Cole claims.

Excerpts ,

“If Mr. Steele and Mr. Cole are right, not one word of the quotation — Israel should be wiped off the map — is accurate.
“But translators in Tehran who work for the president’s office and the foreign ministry disagree with them. All official translations of Mr. Ahmadinejad’s statement, including a description of it on his Web site (www.president.ir/eng/), refer to wiping Israel away. Sohrab Mahdavi, one of Iran’s most prominent translators, and Siamak Namazi, managing director of a Tehran consulting firm, who is bilingual, both say “wipe off” or “wipe away” is more accurate than “vanish” because the Persian verb is active and transitive.
The second translation issue concerns the word “map.” Khomeini’s words were abstract: “Sahneh roozgar.” Sahneh means scene or stage, and roozgar means time. The phrase was widely interpreted as “map,” and for years, no one objected. In October, when Mr. Ahmadinejad quoted Khomeini, he actually misquoted him, saying not “Sahneh roozgar” but “Safheh roozgar,” meaning pages of time or history. No one noticed the change, and news agencies used the word “map” again.

Ahmad Zeidabadi, a professor of political science in Tehran whose specialty is Iran-Israel relations, explained: “It seems that in the early days of the revolution the word ‘map’ was used because it appeared to be the best meaningful translation for what he said. The words ‘sahneh roozgar’ are metaphorical and do not refer to anything specific. Maybe it was interpreted as ‘book of countries,’ and the closest thing to that was a map. Since then, we have often heard ‘Israel bayad az naghshe jographya mahv gardad’ — Israel must be wiped off the geographical map. Hard-liners have used it in their speeches.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/11/weekinreview/11bronner.html?_r=

I think the “wipe Israel off the map ” is in perfect keeping with Ahmadinejad ‘s inflammatory rhetoric and polemics that includes e.g hosting a Holocaust Denial Conference in Tehran 2006 and that 9/11 was an inside job.
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August 13, 2014 11:52am
UglyTruth

In this case, the translator of Ahmadinejad’s statements may have been more accurate than literal words Ahmadinejad uttered.

Westerners can find Iranians to be frustrating to deal with because of the amount of time it takes for Iranians to get to the point. (The video I posted is an example of this.) The upside to this is that it is difficult for them to be misunderstood when they spend so much time describing the context for their statements. In Ahmadinejad’s case his description of the nature of occupation and emphasis on justice and the rule of law provides the context for his previously misreported statement about the Israeli regime.
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August 13, 2014 12:00pm
kowtow

TVNZ midday news leads with the police commisiioner gone to Tuhoi to lick arse! “Controversial,infamous raids” Bollocks to the media message.

Then followed by a long piece on the suicide of a comedian.

In third place the genocide of the Yazidis,lasting only a couple of minutes,compared to a relatively long one on the comedian.

TVNZ “news” priorities are beyond pathetic.It’s shameful.
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August 13, 2014 12:14pm
MH

the Nips mucked around with the wording of unconditional surrender but after no 2 they came to understand perfectly.
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August 13, 2014 12:16pm
Fletch

kowtow, I just saw that too.

I want to say to the NZ Police – THANK YOU for doing your job and dismantling the plans of what really amounted to domestic Maori terrorists. Reading the Police affidavit (available to download as a PDF from Wikileaks) is enough to give you an idea of what they were up to.

Just google “wikileaks urawera affadavit” and you’ll get to the page.

The Police have nothing to apologize for.
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August 13, 2014 12:19pm
stephieboy

Ugly Truth, there is no disputing what President Ahmadinejad said. At least the Iranian Government agrees even if Juan Cole and you don’t ,

http://i26.tinypic.com/160osxc.jpg
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August 13, 2014 12:26pm
Manolo

More on the amateur: http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-TV/2014/08/12/Cheney-Obama-Probably-not-Reading-His-Intelligence
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August 13, 2014 12:28pm
kowtow

Gravedodger

After judiths defence of the Shylock comments I wondered whether anyone could tame the shrew.

Looks like Dennis “Horney” Horne might be making a play.
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August 13, 2014 12:31pm
UglyTruth

Ugly Truth, there is no disputing what President Ahmadinejad said. At least the Iranian Government agrees even if Juan Cole and you don’t ,

http://i26.tinypic.com/160osxc.jpg

Wow, a photo with the same mistranslated quote that the ZioMedia used, and a few photos implying that military targets exist. Gripping stuff.
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August 13, 2014 12:35pm
flash2846

@ MH (652 comments) says:
August 13th, 2014 at 12:16 pm
the Nips mucked around with the wording of unconditional surrender but after no 2 they came to understand perfectly.

Brilliant!!! Comment of the day I recon.
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August 13, 2014 12:36pm
stephieboy

Manolo ,straight from the oracle of one of the US ‘s worst Vice Presidents,

http://content.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1834600_1834604_1834587,00.htm

Sorry, the worst Vice President.!
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August 13, 2014 12:36pm
stephieboy

Ugly Truth,

This Zionist Media.??

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=29219_A_Call_on_the_Clue_Phone_for_Juan_Cole&only
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August 13, 2014 12:42pm
Jack5

More fucking apologies! This time the cops apologising to Tuhoe, the backward tribe of the tatooed-arse dwarf who spat on the NZ flag then fired a shotgun into it.

Why don’t the police get off their knees and chase down the neo-Nazis who are defacing National billboards with anti-Jewish symbols?

Meanwhile, is Dame Susan Devoid taking any interest in the anti-Jewish vandalism, which surely must fit her definition of racism?

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11308261
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August 13, 2014 12:52pm
jackinabox

All Porky Pig needs to do now is apologise to the Thomas family.
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August 13, 2014 12:59pm
Odakyu-sen

“More fucking apologies! This time the cops apologising to Tuhoe, the backward tribe of the tatooed-arse dwarf who spat on the NZ flag then fired a shotgun into it.”

You are looking at the apology from a Western perspective. From the Tuhoe perspective, the apology will make them sit up and take notice, with the full knowledge that the police will not make the same mistake again and will be watching them closely.

…or I could be completely wrong about that.

My point being is that different cultures regard acts in different lights. What might to white Kiwis to be an act of weakness may appear to others to be an act of erasing the grounds for revenge and at the same time showing that the gloves are coming off.
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August 13, 2014 1:01pm
jackinabox

“Reading the Police affidavit (available to download as a PDF from Wikileaks) is enough to give you an idea of what they were up to.”

Awe fuck! You don’t actually believe what the cops say do you Fletch?
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August 13, 2014 1:02pm
dime

Gotta love Gene Simmons:

Immigrants – learn to speak english!

[The politically correct climate dictates that] you don’t want to upset anybody by saying, ‘Learn to speak goddamn English.’ So, as an immigrant, I’m telling you: learn to speak goddamn English. It is the key that will unlock the keys to the kingdom. If you make the effort, then all the possibilities of this culture will open up for you and give you all the rewards that I’ve gotten. I mean, I wasn’t born here and America has enabled me to be a team owner in LA Kiss, to have reality shows and to be in a rock band and to have licensing and merchandising [deals], and a restaurant chain. We’re financing films now. You can’t imagine the width and the breadth of it all.

“Of course it’s difficult, but why should it be easy? Why should it?

“Then work at menial labor the way my mother did, who still speaks with a very thick [accent] to make it possible for the next generation to go to proper schools and learn the culture and the language.

“I speak five languages. Learn to speak a language correctly. It’s not easy. By the way, you don’t have to.

“How about this: If [Apple’s voice-driven personal assistant] Siri can’t understand you, you’re in trouble.”

He continued: “The more you learn to speak English and the more you know about American history, the more of an advantage you’ll have in this culture. There’s no other way. ‘Well, I don’t wanna learn about that. I’m proud only of Israeli culture and I only wanna speak Hebrew.’ You’re allowed to do that, but you won’t get the keys to the kingdom. That’s life.

“It’s important to say that, because nobody has the balls to do it. So as somebody who wasn’t born here, I can damn well say all that and feel righteous about it, because nobody tells immigrants who come to America, ‘Look, do yourselves a favor. Stop watching predominantly your native culture’s television. More than not, learn to speak English and learn the people skills.'”
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August 13, 2014 1:06pm
kowtow

odaku

Is that why we get such half arse apologies from the Nips?

They’re getting ready to do Nanking again.
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August 13, 2014 1:12pm
Nookin

Stephieboy @ 12.36

Forget about Spiro, then, huh?
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August 13, 2014 1:17pm
Jack5

Re Odakyu-Sen at 1.01:

What might to white Kiwis to be an act of weakness may appear to others to be an act of erasing the grounds for revenge and at the same time showing that the gloves are coming off.

How does the Japanese reluctance to say sorry to Koreans and Chinese women (and Dutch women from Indonesia should be included in this) relate to this, Odakyu-sen? (Personally I think it gets into huge depths and complexities, like atomic bombs, and the carpet fire bombing of Hamburg, a city once so proud of its English ties, the mass rape of women in Berlin, and Nazi Germany’s vast unspeakable atrocities in Russia, Poland, and against the Jews everywhere).

I concede inter-cultural apologies are tricky and fraught with hypocrisy, Odakyu-sen. That’s why I think we should not get into them, or at least not beyond a simple statement of sorry rather than staged ethnic events. However, if the police are yet again apologising for over-stepping the mark in the Tuhoe raids, shouldn’t the tatooed dwarf also apologise to NZ for blowing his nose on to the NZ flag, spitting on it, firing a shotgun into it, and generally insulting all and sundry with his flabby arse?
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August 13, 2014 1:17pm
adc

the universities know how well the affirmative action programs do.

Last I heard, there was a disproportionate drop-out rate for affirmative action entries into Medical School. It’s not their fault – they were let in with lower grades based on their race, and so had a much more difficult time coming up to necessary standards. It’s not like you can compromise on standards for doctor training.

Some get through though. It’s hard to know whether those needed affirmative action to get in in the first place or not.

For those that drop out though, they effectively displaced (and messed around with the career path of) other non-minorities who would otherwise have got in. So that’s hardly fair on them.
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August 13, 2014 1:21pm
Griff

G152 (187 comments) says:
August 13th, 2014 at 11:37 am

Dennis
Be back from my walk later. Then I have to carry on repairing a broken aircraft. But it’s nice to have something to look forward to…

=========
I hope that its a model

Nope
Jabiru J200 microlight
Lucky crash-landing, failed take-off: plane crashes twice on NZ beach.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khkSXrQNtWQ
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August 13, 2014 1:27pm
Pete George

Kim Dotcom has been going round the country with a spiel that promotes his history and his brilliance. One of his claims is that he “invented cloud storage”.

Unless it’s a part of undocumented history, Dotcom “invented cloud storage” is bollocks. What else is he exaggerating?
4 1
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August 13, 2014 1:29pm
mandk

Now that the cops have apologised to Tuhoe, can we expect Tuhoe to apologise to the family of James Takamore for stealing his body?
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August 13, 2014 1:32pm
jackinabox

“However, if the police are yet again apologising for over-stepping the mark in the Tuhoe raids, shouldn’t the tatooed dwarf also apologise to NZ for blowing his nose on to the NZ flag, spitting on it, firing a shotgun into it, and generally insulting all and sundry with his flabby arse?”

Tame Iti is a civilian blowing off steam, the cops on the other hand are paid by the taxpayer to uphold the law not break it.
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August 13, 2014 1:36pm
Griff

As far as I am concerned the cops should not have gone in .
Send the army locked and loaded next time.
Terrorism is not ok
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August 13, 2014 1:41pm
adc

People have been storing files on the internet since the 1970s.
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August 13, 2014 1:41pm

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