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July 7, 2014 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 7 July 2014

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General Debate

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ShawnLH

“So Key mixes with the mainstream media and his advisers, and has little exposure to ideas outside of this little prog liberal enclave he has constructed for himself.”

Who is the deputy PM and one of Key’s friends? A Conservative.

Seriously Red your blather is embarrassing and has little to do with reality. No Key’s not as conservative as I would like, but he’s hardly the progressive socialist you claim.

If you want to join Yowza in the political wilderness where you can rant but never achieve anything of substance, your going about it the right way. Whining about electoral reality is pointless. The fact is that NZ is not going to elect a Traditionalist Conservative ( I doubt you would recognise real Traditional Conservatism) anytime soon, and Key, unlike you, is intelligent enough to understand that.

Under Key’s coalition we have had partial asset sales, labour reform, restrictions on Union bullying in the workplace, the 90 day trial period, three strikes, charter schools, increased funding for private schools, tax cuts for the top earners and corporations, and tax cuts for working folks to come.

NONE of that would have occurred under a Labour/Green coalition.

Yes there have been increases elsewhere, such as GST, but it’s just plain dumb to think that with the the Christchurch earthquake and the GFC the government could have taken slash and burn approach to spending and the economy.

Adults (and I’m discounting both you and Yowza in that category, for the same reason) understand that politics is the art of the possible, not wishful thinking and fantasies.
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July 7, 2014 12:52pm
Redbaiter

The funny thing about the left and their application of the derisive term “birther” is the fact they never apply it to those who first began saying Obama’s birthplace was Kenya.

Namely Barack Obama himself and Bill and Hillary Clinton.

See here for Obama’s shortened authorised biography stating unashamedly that he was born in Kenya.

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/05/17/Obama-pamphlet-in-use-2007

Then there was Nancy Pelosi who altered the wording on the Standard Certification document by removing the phrase “legally qualified to serve under the provisions of the United States Constitution”. Something not ever done in any Presidential nomination ever before.

Nancy removed this phrase before signing the document because she knew he was not qualified.
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July 7, 2014 12:57pm
Griff

Lee001
It bloody amazing how your politics has matured since joining KB,
Those of us with half a brain think and engage with others and are willing to change our politics over time.

Then there is red blather…
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July 7, 2014 1:00pm
Harriet

Key is not a conservative – nothing like it.

“……..And how long must we endure attempts by advocates such as Greens Senator Richard Di Natale to legalise, legitimise and normalise suicide by calling it ‘euthanasia’?”
Quite right. Depressed people need help, counsel and support. They don’t need a lethal drug or a bullet to the head. Giving depressed people an easy way out is simply unthinkable, given our high rates of suicide. This is especially true regarding youth depression and suicide……..”

By default the government promotes suicide in general when it promotes euthanasia.

This is a dangerous road to go down as you will have depressed people such as youth questioning the value of life and death even more. No good will come of this.

To help stop suicide, MP’s should be giving life affirming statements – instead of publicly celebrating the cultures of death; abortion, homosexuality and euthanasia.

Conservatism has Christian beliefs – and affirming life is central to both. Key doesn’t do that. He’s a fake.
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July 7, 2014 1:03pm
Pete George

The latest Consrvative advertising begins:

Call us crazy, but the way we see it a politician’s job  is to follow the instructions voters give them.

I’m not sure who has given instructions here:

Cunliffe must really, REALLY hate research
Press Release: Steve Taylor

David “Tricky Dicky” Cunliffe must really, REALLY hate research, given his recent foray into Education.

David “Tricky Dicky” Cunliffe

“Smaller class sizes” whines Mr Cunliffe.

“2000 extra teachers” bleats Mr Cunliffe.

“$350 million to fund it” gasps Mr Cunliffe.

What an intellectual lightweight Mr Cunliffe must be , says me.

If I could show you a summary of 50,000 individual research studies, and over 800 meta-analytic (a study of studies) studies, that concluded that “smaller class sizes” don’t make any difference at all to teaching outcomes, and that teacher quality, reinforced by regular real-time supervision and incremental skills and performance progress via regular evaluation was the key to teaching success, what would your response be?

Incredulity? Surprise? Disbelief?

Unfortunately for “Tricky Dicky” Cunliffe, one of my academic roles is as an Outcomes Researcher, so every time Cunliffe makes a populist, vacuous, absent-of-evidence claim about………..well…………anything, then I can simply smash his claims down with valid, reliable, and consistent evidence to the contrary.

Professor John Hattie is a name known by most in the International Education field, and he is one of our own.

Here is a study presentation that Professor John Hattie has compiled that illustrates the factor effect size of “what works” in delivering quality teaching.

Class size ranked 105th out of 138.

Seriously, if David “Tricky Dicky” Cunliffe is the supposed IQ and debating giant of the Labour Party, then I literally cannot wait until we cross paths in the public arena.

Because for me, it is going to be a case of Barrel, meet fish, with me doing the shooting.

Not metioned, but Taylor is apparently the Conservative opponent of Cunliffe in New Lynn. It follows another media release: Conservative Party Candidate not going to apologise

Well, we have had an invitation to call them crazy.
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July 7, 2014 1:16pm
stephieboy

Redbaiter ,in-depth analysis and background of the promotional booklet ,

“…The editor of the biographical text about Barack Obama which was included in the booklet maintained that the mention of Kenya was an error on her part and was not based on any information provided to her by Obama himself:
Miriam Goderich edited the text of the bio; she is now a partner at the Dystel & Goderich agency, which lists Obama as one of its current clients.

“You’re undoubtedly aware of the brouhaha stirred up by Breitbart about the erroneous statement in a client list Acton & Dystel published in 1991 (for circulation within the publishing industry only) that Barack Obama was born in Kenya. This was nothing more than a fact checking error by me — an agency assistant at the time,” Goderich wrote. “There was never any information given to us by Obama in any of his correspondence or other communications suggesting in any way that he was born in Kenya and not Hawaii. I hope you can communicate to your readers that this was a simple mistake and nothing more.”

Read more at http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/birthers/booklet.asp#1jVj0MAqvwv0akrA.99

Here a New York Times article 1990 about Obama at Harvard Law School clearly states he was born in Hawaii .

http://www.nytimes.com/1990/02/06/us/first-black-elected-to-head-harvard-s-law-review.html

Breibart has a lot to answer for in publishing this incredibly misleading and deceptive article, pandering to the gullible and prejudiced like you.
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July 7, 2014 1:17pm
ShawnLH

I think the truth about Key is that he is not an ideological man, he’s a pragmatist. This tends to piss off both the left and the hard right, because he does not fit into either camp, and is less concerned with abstract ideology than with what actually works in reality.

This to me makes him a conservative, of the “small-c” variety anyway.
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July 7, 2014 1:19pm
stephieboy

Harriet ,

“Conservatism has Christian beliefs – and affirming life is central to both. Key doesn’t do that. He’s a fake.”

What evidence do you have that all conservatives have Christian belief as you describe. ?
BTW does Colin Craig and his C P propose implementing a Christian Theocracy for NZ .?
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July 7, 2014 1:25pm
Redbaiter

So pro Obama sources have tried to cover up Obama’s blatant deception. How impressive.

There are plenty of long standing reports that corroborate the biography and that Obama never once took the opportunity to correct.

For example-

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2012/05/ap-2004-flashback-kenyan-born-obama-all-set-for-us-senate/

Then there are all of the images here.

As for Snopes, don’t bother me with any horseshit from that Democrat voting/ donating husband and wife team besotted with the idea of a black president regardless of the fact that he’s a communist plant bent on destroying the Constitutional Republic.
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July 7, 2014 1:27pm
ShawnLH

I saw the full page advert by the Conservative Party in the Press today. It’s actually very good. It turns the media’s themes about them being crazy on their head, to good effect. It’s an indication that Craig is going to run a much better campaign than some, like PG, think.

National is likely going to need coalitions partners, it would take very little for the polls to narrow. My preference would be for both ACT and the Conservatives to have the numbers to achieve that. Both would have a positive influence on National’s direction, and I trust Key to keep some the more dubious policies of both parties out of bounds.
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July 7, 2014 1:27pm
kowtow

In the ODT also.

They promise binding referenda…..how novel.

More than a few posters here seem to think that giving the electorate a say in their own lives is a bad idea!
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July 7, 2014 1:31pm
Grendel

Lol that penny no so seems to think that the words “right now” make any difference.

in apologising for being a man, the timing was not important, he was pandering to a crowd. the only reason to apologise for being a man would be if he was apologising to other men for his behaviour unbecoming of a real man.

how would penny have had time to hear any of this, from all accounts she was too busy shilling for votes in her doomed campaign against john key, that will make as much of an impact as a fly against the windshield of truck.
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July 7, 2014 1:32pm
Pete George

It could be a very clever and successful campaign Shawn. As long as they can avoid looking crazy.

It could catch on. Other possible daring campaigns:

Labour: “Call us unmanly…”
Green: “Call us socialist…”
NZ First: “Call me hypocritical…”
(Today) Winston is ranting about Horan making unsubstantiated claims and is threatening defamation)
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July 7, 2014 1:34pm
ShawnLH

“BTW does Colin Craig and his C P propose implementing a Christian Theocracy for NZ .?”

No. But then mainstream conservative Christians are not promoting a theocracy.

You can see the parties statement of principles here: http://www.conservativeparty.org.nz/index.php?page=Principles

They are fairly moderate imo, certainly nothing to anyone not on the Left should be worried about.

One of them is: “A belief in a decent society that values life, individual privacy, the freedom of the individual (including freedom of speech, conscience, worship and assembly), the right to defend one’s self and property, the importance of family and the role of civil society;”
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July 7, 2014 1:35pm
ShawnLH

Yes Pete, Winston certainly does not like the boot being on the other foot!
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July 7, 2014 1:37pm
Pete George

I’m not sure whether Horan has really got up Winston’s nose or if Winston sees some publicity benefits.
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July 7, 2014 1:46pm
hj

The Standard
Eureka at Kerikeri HS! After a period of settling in and getting accustomed to the new learning, the pass rate – I think this is correct – for Level 2 NCEA for the group used as a base standard, has gone from 28% to 82% e&oe.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-07072014/
unless the marker was dislexic?
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July 7, 2014 1:49pm
ShawnLH

I think Peter’s is genuinely pissed at Horan. “How dare he stand in Parliament and make baseless accusations of corruption. That’s my job!” 🙂
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July 7, 2014 1:52pm
hj

@ Pete George

a big difference (apparently) in polls on immigration yet Woodhouse is saying it shows people are concerned but don’t care much. Meanwhile Andrea Vance is bad mouthing treasury economists “policy wonks’ (wonky) and saying no one cares. This is corporate interests at work. Whatever the other (opposition) parties are doing is peanuts by comparison.
they get away with it because as Bryce Edwards said “two of Labour (and the liberal left’s core values) are identity politics and rape culture” i.e interests of the ordinary people are no longer represented.
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July 7, 2014 1:55pm
stephieboy

Redbaiter,

and your impeccable sources .??? The Gateway Pundit. ? Radical Right blog that panders precisely to your kind of bigotry , hatreds and fears

The moon battery there is unbelievable including an old favorite ,red baiting.! Not realizing as the link below shows that the Cold war is long, long over. But hey!, why not a bit of lunacy for sideshow entertainment value .!

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/The_Gateway_Pundit

And all about moon battery,

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Moonbattery.com

As I’ve suggested before, go and visit your Doctor and be quick about it.
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July 7, 2014 1:59pm
hj

What a waste of time Horan is. 140,000 per year and what did he have to show for it. $140,000 should produce some research, some argument?
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July 7, 2014 2:05pm
hj

Radio New Zealand National’s Morning Report has issued an apology over a live interview with MP Brendan Horan where he made negative comments towards Winston Peter.

Morning Report host Suzie Ferguson read the apology this morning which said “In a live interview with independent MP Brendan Horan on Thursday’s Morning Report, Mr Horan made a number of defamatory remarks regarding New Zealand First leader, the Right Honourable Winston Peters. No evidence was provided to substantiate those remarks. The broadcast was a serious departure from Radio New Zealand’s editorial standards and should not have been aired. Radio New Zealand deeply regrets what occurred and apologises to Mr Peters”.
Radio New Zealand is said to be looking into the matter further.

http://www.ontheradio.co.nz/2014/05/radio-new-zealand-apologise-over.html
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July 7, 2014 2:11pm
Pete George

I doubt New Zealand would have anything more to show for it if Horan had left Parliament and had been replace by another NZ First list MP. MULFORD, Helen Jane would have been next off the rank.

In comparison to Horan what do we have to show for the contribution of any of the other NZ First MPs this term? Including Peters?
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July 7, 2014 2:13pm
Manolo

@Stephieboy, your loyalty to the anointed Kenyan is to be commended……not. Hope & change forever!
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July 7, 2014 2:18pm
stephieboy

Manolo, but at least I have the facts on my side but can continue with the mad obsessions and delusions.

BTW will Redbaiter and you make a real effort at the next C P conference to have your Biither delusions accepted including the exclusion of blacks as official party policy.??
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July 7, 2014 2:27pm
stephieboy

Where Birthers, creationists and Climate Change deniers meet,

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/09/27/786933/-Right-Wing-Blog-takes-on-Glenn-Beck-Birthers-Creationists-Global-Warming-Deniers-160#
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July 7, 2014 2:44pm
dirty harry

Send the next ‘maori king’ back to court..justice has not been done…

https://www.change.org/petitions/john-key-send-korotangi-paki-back-to-court
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July 7, 2014 2:54pm
cricko

Here is a very nasty piece of work.
Lets hope he comes up against a decent judge when sentenced.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/hawkes-bay-today/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503462&objectid=11289092

This poor old dear deserves to hear that he gets a realistic sentence to suit this disgusting crime.
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July 7, 2014 3:29pm
Judith

@ Pete George (22,461 comments) says:
July 7th, 2014 at 2:13 pm

Plenty of entertainment. Parliamentary TV is well worth watching when Winnie and Johnno are debating.
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July 7, 2014 3:35pm
dirty harry

I see the unintelligent hand wringing white guilt laden dickheads are out thumbing down the intelligent again .
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July 7, 2014 3:36pm
Judith

Pete George (22,461 comments) says:
July 7th, 2014 at 1:34 pm

Labour: “Call us unmanly…”
Green: “Call us socialist…”
NZ First: “Call me hypocritical…”

National: “No need to call us, we’re already spying on you..”
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July 7, 2014 3:37pm
Manolo

Read and weep. The pink brigade is pushing harder and harder (no pun intended):
Children of same-sex couples experience higher levels of general health and family cohesion than those from traditional families, a study shows.

http://health.msn.co.nz/healthnews/8870783/children-of-same-sex-parents-healthier
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July 7, 2014 4:04pm
dirty harry

“higher levels of general health ”

As if. Wallowing in sewage, anal intercourse , blood and fecal matter…and they are supposed to have higher health levels?

Call bullshit on that one pinko’s. Keep trying.
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July 7, 2014 4:15pm
mikenmild

A bit obsessed about anal sex there, dirty harry. Sure you shouldn’t be on some same sex dating site instead?
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July 7, 2014 4:22pm
dirty harry

pinko mike..we know what you get up to after hours
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July 7, 2014 4:27pm
nasska

dirty harry

Despite hyperbole there probably isn’t as much blood on the walls & shit on the sheets as you may think. The majority of same sex marriages, so far, have been between females who I’m given to understand do not practise anal intercourse to any great extent.

…..”Between 19 August 2013 (when the law became operational) and 31 March 2014, 668 same-sex marriages were registered in New Zealand. 385 of these were between female couples and 283 were between male couples. Just under 60 percent of these were between New Zealand citizens, and roughly one-third were between Australian citizens.”…..

Ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Same-sex_marriage_in_New_Zealand
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July 7, 2014 4:42pm
ShawnLH

Stephie, such a sensible guy one moment, and then your on the same bus as UT and Red. Nobody wants to exclude black folks from anything, nobody outside the KKK anyway. And being opposed to Obama is not racism, it’s common sense. Assuming all or even most Tea Partiers are racist is just as silly as Red’s view that Key is a progressive socialist. And attacking blogs on the Right when your quoting the far left Daily Kos does nothing for your credibility.
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July 7, 2014 4:49pm
G152

Isn’t Crim dot Con supposed to be in court today ?
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July 7, 2014 4:49pm
ShawnLH

“Non-sequitur. Mankind and human beings are different groups. Humans are under Rome.”

Does someone not wearing a nice, white, wrap around jacket want to explain this bizarre statement from Ugly?
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July 7, 2014 4:51pm
cricko

How would you go ?

I see my effort @ 3.29 has attracted a thumbs down from some boofhead supporter of Hugh Tareha
who has pled guilty to raping an 87 year old lady.

What about having the same system as Whaleoil has so that we can see the moniker of shitheads who vote like this.
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July 7, 2014 4:54pm
dirty harry

Why would you want to expose children to backward unnatural lifestyle conditions? Its up to the majority of us good clean living folk to shine the spotlight on the filth in our society.

Same sex marriage..same sex intercourse

Its a no no.
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July 7, 2014 4:58pm
mikenmild

Why do you care so much about the types of personal relationships other people enter into? Haven’t you got your own business to mind?
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July 7, 2014 5:00pm
lurcher1948

Just finished listerning to lardball slater on newstalkZB(ps what pills is cam on and what for) cam insulting anyone who votes for peters as a stupid old fart,but cam you sounded like a thick shithead ,i was waiting for the word old leecher pensioner to come out, CAM take those depression pills take more,up the pills,thats all im going to say as your fellow hosts laughed at you
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July 7, 2014 5:17pm
ShawnLH

“Why do you care so much about the types of personal relationships other people enter into? Haven’t you got your own business to mind?”

Why do you? Liberals care a great deal about personal relationships, so much so that they want to promote some, give them parades, and claim that anyone who opposes them has a phobia.

Pot. Kettle. Black.
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July 7, 2014 5:18pm
mikenmild

What relationships am I promoting Shawn?
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July 7, 2014 5:22pm
ShawnLH

Mike every time someone expresses opposition to homosexuality you respond and/or attack them, including using the silly phobia label.

So if you don’t know what it is that you are promoting, then I’m not qualified to deal with that level of self-delusion.
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July 7, 2014 5:28pm
Griff

Nope liberals believe in freedom. The freedom of others is not overridden by our personal beliefs.
I certainly are not gay the thought of even handling another mans penis revolts me
but
What is done in private between consenting adults is not my business.
or the governments, the churches and especially not repressed religious nutters.
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July 7, 2014 5:28pm
mikenmild

Griff’s position is the same as mine Shawn. It’s about personal freedom.
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July 7, 2014 5:29pm
cricko

I think that there is quite a difference between two lesbian parents and two homosexual blokes as
parents.
As for two shirtlifters adopting a little boy, now that’s just plain sick.
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July 7, 2014 5:32pm
nasska

….” Liberals care a great deal about personal relationships, so much so that they want to promote some, give them parades, and claim that anyone who opposes them has a phobia.”…..

Something wrong there Shawn…..I’m a social liberal & it’s totally beyond me why anyone needs a parade to celebrate their sexuality be their style straight, gay or farmyard.

What I do believe is that it is none of my bloody business what they do.
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July 7, 2014 5:35pm
ShawnLH

“Nope liberals believe in freedom. ”

Some do, some don’t, and some hide their real ideology behind the label.

“What is done in private between consenting adults is not my business.”

I agree, but that position (no pun intended) is different from the Liberal-Left’s view that what some consenting adults do in private should be publicly promoted, tax payer funded, and all opposition stifled.

Personally homosexuality rates very, very low on my list of concerns. I really don’t care what consenting adults do in private. But real freedom cannot be had by demonising differing points of view. And some liberals, most on the Left, who claim to believe in social freedom one moment, will toss that out the door when it suits them on another issue.

Plus, my point was that Mikey is fond of claiming others are obsessed on the issue, yet he’s always responding to the issue, which looks obsessive to me.
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July 7, 2014 5:37pm
dirty harry

We know your position milkyman.

Im an each to their own sort BUT not when it involves children.
Leave them out of your filthy acts and lifestyle.
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July 7, 2014 5:38pm
ShawnLH

And the whole issue of consenting adults in private goes out the door when children are involved. At that point it ceases being a private issue of adult consent, and becomes a social issue.
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July 7, 2014 5:42pm
nasska

Anyway who actually has sex in front of children be they gay or straight?

Perhaps I’m a tad old fashioned but we seemed to manage to wait until the kids were in bed or at their grandparent’s place.
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July 7, 2014 5:44pm
Griff

I was just going to make the same comment nasska
I was never aware of my parents having sex as a child
They must of unless my younger brother is the second coming
why would a gay couple be any different?

BUT THINK OF THE CHILDREN
Is the resort of someone losing a rational debate badly.
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July 7, 2014 5:54pm
cricko

naaska, I gave you a thumbs up @ 5.35 and 5.44 however.
Does your social liberalism extend so far as to being OK with two male homosexuals adopting a little boy ?
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July 7, 2014 5:58pm
nasska

Very tricky question that cricko because so much would depend on the gays involved. I understand that statistically there is little difference between the abuse rates of gays & straights.

Put me down as an “honestly don’t know”.
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July 7, 2014 6:02pm
ShawnLH

“Anyway who actually has sex in front of children be they gay or straight?”

Cripes, hopefully nobody! But I was talking about adoption.
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July 7, 2014 6:03pm
Griff

Rather two loving dads than two fucked up violent hetrosexual losers.
I am aware of the true depth of depravity that some kids are exposed to. My partner being a child Councillor who offloads some of the stress of her professional life. My brother is an emergency care giver for cyfs. My sister works with disabled children in south Auckland
Two loving gay dads would be haven for many kids.
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July 7, 2014 6:07pm
ShawnLH

Generally speaking I think people wanting to adopt should be in a traditional marriage. However, I can envision exceptions to the rule. For example, if a gay man has a son from a previous heterosexual marriage, is bringing him up with a male partner, then dies, then I can see that it would be a matter of justice and decency to allow the partner to adopt. Splitting them up would be cruel.

Lot’s of ins and outs on that issue, so I’m closer to the “don’t know” position. But like the euthanasia issue it needs a lot more debate and research, and far less shouting and slogans from both camps.
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July 7, 2014 6:08pm
nasska

The balancing of your medication has done wonders for the quality of your comments Shawn…..my congratulations to your psychiatrist. 🙂
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July 7, 2014 6:13pm
EAD

I’ve been watching the USA descend into a Police State for well over a decade and here is yet another example of extreme (and unchecked) police behavior against the people. Here, a policeman repeatedly punches the face and head of a prostrate woman

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/05/california-highway-patrol-officer-punched-woman

http://www.infowars.com/video-cop-repeatedly-beats-woman-in-the-head/

America, where everyone is free to pursue Life, liberty, and the pursuit of……………….police brutality?
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July 7, 2014 6:14pm
Redbaiter

Oh, the usual crowd talking about homosexuals again.
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July 7, 2014 6:16pm
nasska

Glad we could swing the conversation around to something more up your alley Baity. 🙂
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July 7, 2014 6:18pm
dad4justice

Yeah red the fags and queers seem to have taken over.
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July 7, 2014 6:18pm
ShawnLH

“The balancing of your medication has done wonders for the quality of your comments Shawn…..my congratulations to your psychiatrist. ”

The psychiatrist was useless, so I fired him and just took more drugs. 😉
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July 7, 2014 6:18pm
Griff

Feeling left out again redtard?
I am sure there is plenty of arse licking over at true blue nz if you feel lonely.
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July 7, 2014 6:20pm
ShawnLH

“Oh, the usual crowd talking about homosexuals again.”

Seriously, that was hilarious Reddy! 🙂

One liberal-lefty atheist, two liberal-righty atheists, and one moderately conservative-right Christian is your definition of “the usual crowd”?

What color is the sky on your planet?
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July 7, 2014 6:24pm
big bruv

They do say that those who shout the loudest……
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July 7, 2014 6:25pm
Griff

Pooh brown
https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQcFqkDY2e78K-qIdxLQ1u5TKNTjZ-LJupY-rtnMPyki9j0zME6
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July 7, 2014 6:32pm
dirty harry

Still cant beat the norm..one female mother and one male father.

The wannabes can take a long walk off a short plank.
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July 7, 2014 6:42pm
cricko

Griff, ShawnLH, naaska et al,

http://www.rpvnetwork.org/profiles/blogs/gay-adoption-horror-duke

Google, “gay males pimping out adopted son.” and you get 14 million hits.

You can come up with stuff like, ‘Better two loving gay males than fucked up violent heteros”
all day long. But pragmatic common sense would tell most worldly people that it is just not worth
the risk. (the male homosexual is the most promiscuous animal on earth)

Even most honest homosexual males would agree that it is just not worth the risk.

Not just the risk of physical abuse but the risk of psycological damage to the boy regardless.

Social liberalism is one thing but it does have limits.

Homosexuals of either gender who desire to adopt a child are simply selfish people.

Women who enter a lesbian relationship when either one or both already have children is OK with me.
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July 7, 2014 6:51pm
nasska

cricko

This would be one instance where we would have to rely on scientific studies before even beginning to form a hard opinion. For instance, though as you state gays are promiscuous does that trait necessarily make them a risk to kids.

The number of stranger adoptions in NZ is minuscule so most will be cases where a custodial mother/father marries another male/female who wishes to co-parent.

In these cases adoption would only be formalising what was already practise. The risk will be neither increased nor decreased.
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July 7, 2014 7:05pm
Griff

The sort of things that go on in south Auckland……
Eight years old and the two parents had not noticed the child was profoundly deaf—no language and not even toilet trained!
That’s just neglect.
The actually abuse sexual and physical is far worse.
Kid did not listen… well just iron his ear off.
Girl used as a bowling ball guess where the fingers went?

Homosexual doesn’t mean pedophile just as priest doesn’t mean pedophile.
Google
pedophile priest ..About 213,000 results
pedophile homosexual About 60,100 results
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July 7, 2014 7:12pm
big bruv

cricko

What are you going to do when we have the first openly gay All Black?
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July 7, 2014 7:13pm
Fletch

re: gays and adoption – has anyone seen this pic doing the rounds on the internet? Two barechested homosexuals “meeting” their new baby son for the first time.

http://mashable.com/2014/07/04/dads-newborn-photos-worldpride/

Yeh, so where do you begin?
Obviously, neither of them gave birth, so you’re already adding another person into the mix (the real “surrogate” mother).

As one blogger writes –

Marriage between men and women is a pre-political, naturally emerging social institution. Men and women come together to create children, independently of any government. The duty of caring for those children exists even without a government or any political order.

Marriage protects children as well as the interests of each parent in their common project of raising those children.

Because marriage is an organic part of civil society, it is robust enough to sustain itself, with minimal assistance from the state.

By contrast, same-sex “marriage” is completely a creation of the state.

Same-sex couples cannot have children. Someone must give them a child or at least half the genetic material to create a child. The state must detach the parental rights of the opposite-sex parent and then attach those rights to the second parent of the same-sex couple.

The state must create parentage for the same-sex couple. For the opposite-sex couple, the state merely recognizes parentage.

Read more: http://www.ncregister.com/site/article/15099#ixzz36lTrYXjq

Poor kid. He nicely accessorizes a gay marriage now.
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July 7, 2014 7:19pm
cricko

naaska

Fair enough, but I will stick to my common sense gut feeling that homosexuals adopting children, is just wrong.

And two homosexual males adopting a boy, theoretically now legal in New Zealand, is just fricken sick.
And I don’t need a scientific study to help me form that opinion.

And I am liberal enough to not have much of a problem with one lesbian in a lesbian relationship being artificially
inseminated to create a family.

PS Fletch, good post. V true.
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July 7, 2014 7:23pm
dad4justice

“What are you going to do when we have the first openly gay All Black?”

What a totally oddball question from a faggot hater of everything normal.
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July 7, 2014 7:26pm
Griff

Thugby is gay.
grown men running around after balls groping each other in scrums then showering together .
It is a English public school sport.
Wink wink nudge nudge say no more.
google first hits
english+puplic+schools+and+homosexuality
About 463,000 results (0.15 seconds)
Search Results

When I was at school … | Education | The Guardian
http://www.theguardian.com › News › Education › Private schools
Oct 11, 2005 – Sex was part of the culture of the school, but it was all pretty ingenuous. … There was a lot of homosexuality at certain periods in English public …
Pederasty – Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pederasty
Pederasty is the archetypal example of male age-structured homosexuality. Geoffrey ….. Until the 1970s, English “public schools” were walled boarding schools, …
‎Pederasty in ancient Greece – ‎Athenian pederasty – ‎Warren Cup – ‎Cretan pederasty
English Public Schools and Buggering – Straight Dope Message Board
boards.straightdope.com › … › Main › General Questions
Dec 5, 2001 – 50 posts – ‎23 authors
The humour is based on the long standing association of public schools with homosexuality and the character’s typically English indifference.
homosexuality in nineteenth century english public schools
http://www.jstor.org/stable/41420705
by V BULLOUGH – ‎1979 – ‎Cited by 2 – ‎Related articles
In the present paper we argue that the English public schools in the last part of the … continued in adult life, some of them developing into adult homosexual.
Private hell in a boys’ public school – Telegraph
http://www.telegraph.co.uk › Education › Secondary education
Nov 25, 2009 – As Abingdon School breaks with tradition to appoint a female head, Rebecca … unlucky to be in a house where the housemaster was a homosexual alcoholic, …. British white boys risk becoming an ‘educational underclass’ …
A History of Homosexuality in Europe, Vol. I & II: Berlin, …
books.google.co.nz/books?isbn=0875863574
Florence Tamagne – 2006 – ‎Electronic books
SEDUCED IN THE PUBLIC SCHOOLS The public school 289 was commonly … Lastly, the English public school often regards homosexuality as normal and the …
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July 7, 2014 7:26pm
cricko

big bruv

for the record I didn’t thumb you down for that question.

I would have no problem at all with a gay All Black, good on him when he inevitably turns up.
I’ve got nothing against homos as such, you cant help the sexuality you are born with.

I was on about homosexuals adopting children. That is wrong, period. And especially homo males adopting boys.
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July 7, 2014 7:38pm
nasska

Many of them ended up as regular clients at Madam Lash’s House of Pain Griff.:)
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July 7, 2014 7:38pm
stigie

“Thugby is gay.
grown men running around after balls groping each other in scrums then showering together” .

You have a massive wealth of knowledge there Griff !~
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July 7, 2014 7:41pm
big bruv

D4J

“What a totally oddball question from a faggot hater of everything normal”

What on earth does that mean D4J?

Are you suggesting (as that is how it is written) that I hate poofs?, if that is the case then the remainder of your statement simply does not make any sense.

Or, are you calling me a poof (in the hope that I might finally agree to go out with you) AND a hater of everything normal?

So, which one is it D4J?, I suspect it might be the first as you clearly have no understanding, nor experience of normality. Come to think of it, I really do hope it is the first as I am getting a little sick and tired of your advances.
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July 7, 2014 7:46pm
big bruv

D4J

Given the violent reaction my question elicited from you I wonder if you might be able to shed a little light on the subject of Gay All Blacks.

Do you know something about a couple of poofs in the Crusaders that the rest of us don’t?
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July 7, 2014 7:49pm
big bruv

Does anybody know what the rate of homosexuality is amongst demolition workers?
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July 7, 2014 7:50pm
dad4justice

Hey look big bigot has fired three in a row. Get help you unhinged deranged cowardly creep. Man you are disturbed. You are the sickest blogger on here. Go away and do us all a favour. You got serious issues that you should sort out. What is your U.B.F.?
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July 7, 2014 7:54pm
nasska

Today, at the local Catholic School the kids learned about John 10 & Matthew 12….

….and why they were involved with the Priest being down at the station helping the Police with their inquiries.
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July 7, 2014 8:00pm
nasska

Careful now BB…..I’ve heard there’s some pretty hard nuts in the demolition racket.

Spread unlubed over the digger bucket & nary a whimper. 🙂
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July 7, 2014 8:03pm
dad4justice

pathetic nasska. grow up twit.just another keyboard coward. yawn ,yawn, bb will slam another 3 comments of hatred just to keep you peanut brain types happy. a sick dog always has many fleas eh.
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July 7, 2014 8:05pm
Fletch

Meanwhile, academics at a conference held by the University of Cambridge contend that paedophilia is “natural and normal” for males.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/10948796/Paedophilia-is-natural-and-normal-for-males.html
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July 7, 2014 8:07pm
big bruv

nasska

You mean they like it rough?

Would that type of bloke be one with a short temper do you think?
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July 7, 2014 8:09pm
dad4justice

What is your U.B.F big blouse?
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July 7, 2014 8:12pm
nasska

We’re looking at Goatse man here BB. 🙂
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July 7, 2014 8:12pm
Harriet

Surrogacy Versus Adoption :

Surrogacy: Gay parenting is a community project; two fathers, an absent mother, a periodical child phsyciatrist, and ‘other women’ – usually the female friends and family of the ‘fathers’ who are needed to replace the absent mother.

The child misses out on half the childhood experiance. They are also torn from their heritage, genetics, mother, siblings and culture.
.

They suffer all the way through their childhood from missing a natural parent – or both. Their natural questions are not answered with the natural reply of death, like in the cases of adoption —- but with the unnatural reply of ‘equality parenting’.

Gay parenting does not make a childhood.

“………..Ethicist Leon Kass says this:

“We practice adoption because there are abandoned children who need good homes. We do not, and would not, encourage people deliberately to generate children for others to adopt.” Or as Maggie Gallagher has put it:

Surrogate contracts and adoptions are not comparable. Adoption is the fulfilment, not the negation, of parental responsibility. Especially in a country where abortion is cheap and easy, when a woman gives her baby up for adoption she has thereby acknowledged her obligations to her child. Almost always, adoption is part of a conscious attempt to do what is best for the child. The surrogate mother does not admit she has any special obligations to her child; she does not admit that it is hers. The child cannot obligate her, she obligates it: It is a product, conceived for sale and use.

David Blankenhorn also adds his voice to the fundamental nature of adoption: “Adoption is a wonderfully pro-child act. Adults respond to a child’s loss with altruistic, healing love. . . . Adoption does not deny but in fact presupposes the importance of natural parents. For this reason, despite all the good it does, adoption is ultimately a derivative and compensatory institution. It is not a stand-alone good, primarily because its existence depends upon prior human loss.”

Finally, we should let the children so conceived themselves make the case. Jessica Kerns, a product of surrogacy, also explains why we are dealing with apples and oranges here:

It really is the buying and selling of babies, and the commodification of women’s bodies. There’s a huge difference between the adoption world and the donor-conceived world. [The] institution [of adoption] was not … created for the parents, to give them a kid. It was created for the opposite, to put children in a home, because they’re here already and we’re responding to a catastrophe. Donor-conceived [children], we’re creating them with the intent of separating them from their biology, and you know … it’s vastly different…………”

http://billmuehlenberg.com/2014/06/29/surrogacy-versus-adoption/
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July 7, 2014 8:19pm
stigie

Do you know if they have blow up dolls of the village people ?
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July 7, 2014 8:22pm
nasska

You’ll find something pretty close to that description here stigie. 🙂

Ref: https://www.dropbox.com/s/tlojul02fyiwk12/Doll%209.jpg
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July 7, 2014 8:30pm
PhilP

Should the Nutters and Liarbore gain power on Sept 20 what will happen to the Future Fund that National set up following the 49% sell-down of State Assets? I don ‘t recall hearing their policy on what they will do with these funds but I could guess, keep bribing the electorate.
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July 7, 2014 8:42pm
stigie

Thought you would come through Nasska thanks, but looks like a dump site for used dolls !~
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July 7, 2014 8:42pm
Dean Papa

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuaORINp4e4
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July 7, 2014 8:45pm
nasska

You never said they had to be new stigie. 🙁
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July 7, 2014 8:47pm

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