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July 26, 2014 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 26 July 2014

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General Debate

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nasska

Minus

It could be that his speech writer is a Trevor Mallard plant.
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July 26, 2014 8:17pm
Fletch

kowtow, in France they even burned down shops owned by Jews and attacked a Synagogue.

On Sunday several hundred pro-Palestinian protestors gathered in front of the local railway station. Late in the afternoon, clashes erupted in front of the local synagogue between police and protestors carrying iron bars and wooden batons. In the chaos that ensued, fire broke out at the synagogue but was rapidly brought under control.

Several shops were attacked and set on fire, including a Jewish-owned grocery store that was reportedly destroyed.

http://www.latimes.com/world/europe/la-fg-france-rioters-synagogue-20140721-story.html

And in Germany –

In a video taken at a large anti-Israel rally in Berlin this past Thursday, hundreds of protesters can be seen chanting in German, “Jew, Jew, cowardly pig, come on out and fight on your own” (“Jude, Jude, feiges Schwein, komm heraus und kämpf allein“).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WW7wG2vCiXk

It reminds one of the beginnings of WWII.
Do people learn nothing from history?

As others have said, Israel is the “canary in the coalmine”. First they come for Israel, then they come for the West.
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July 26, 2014 8:18pm
Yoza

kowtow (7,599 comments) says:
July 26th, 2014 at 7:36 pm

Auckland anti semitic march.

One placard shown on TVNZ1 news said ‘Make Israel History”.

So the marchers and organisers are happy to be associated with the genocide that was instrumental in the creation of Israel!

Some of the chants at similar protests in Germany of all places are particularly frightening.Multiculturalism has replaced the old evil there.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/10983472/EU-politicians-speak-out-after-wave-of-anti-Semitic-attacks.html

Looks like an Israeli government PR campaign to provide a smokescreen for their campaign of mass-murder in Gaza.

Anyone familiar with the conflict understands their are many Jewish groups and individuals who are utterly appalled by the Israeli state’s treatment of Palestinians, they are also familiar with the Israeli state desperation to conflate the slaughter of Palestinians with upholding the interests of Jews generally.
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July 26, 2014 8:19pm
ShawnLH

“Looks like an Israeli government PR campaign to provide a smokescreen for their campaign of mass-murder in Gaza.”

No, it looks like a rare but welcome revelation of how many Jew haters there are on the far left.

“Anyone familiar with the conflict”

Which excludes you and most other lefties.

“their are many Jewish groups and individuals who are utterly appalled by the Israeli state’s treatment of Palestinians”

Sadly Israel has lefties who like terrorists as well.

“they are also familiar with the Israeli state desperation to conflate the slaughter of Palestinians with upholding the interests of Jews generally.”

That is because the war against HAMAS is directly related to the long term survival of Jews everywhere.

What is telling “Yowza” is how easily you dismiss the very disturbing facts presented by Fletch. That rabid antisemitism has been on the rise for twenty years now is a fact, and far from being Israel’s fault, it is in large part the fault of the Western far left, which has made Jew hatred politically correct.

Perhaps next time you pop up I should greet you with Sieg Hail?
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July 26, 2014 8:24pm
Fletch

Looks like an Israeli government PR campaign to provide a smokescreen for their campaign of mass-murder in Gaza.

Oh, come on Yoza. Do you really think the aim of the Jews is that bad, that (in your eyes) they’ve only intentionally killed around 700? What we’re seeing isn’t “mass-murder”. Come on… If the Jews wanted to, they could completely flatten Gaza.
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July 26, 2014 8:26pm
big bruv

“If the Jews wanted to, they could completely flatten Gaza.”

Something I am starting to think might be a good idea.
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July 26, 2014 8:30pm
Other_Andy

Fletch says:

“kowtow, in France they even burned down shops owned by Jews and attacked a Synagogue.”

This is been happening all over Europe for the last 30 years.
The new colonists, protected by the left, have driven out most Jews from Europe.
They’ve left for the US or Israel.
Once in Israel they’re not taking any shit anymore, where else do they go?
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July 26, 2014 8:34pm
ShawnLH

The Socialist Roots of Modern Anti-Semitism.

“Auschwitz meant that six million Jews were killed, and thrown on the waste-heap of Europe, for what they were considered: money-Jews. Finance capital and the banks, the hard core of the system of imperialism and capitalism, had turned the hatred of men against money and exploitation, and against the Jews. . . . Antisemitism is really a hatred of capitalism.” —Ulrike Meinhof, left-wing German terrorist of the 1970s.

http://www.fee.org/the_freeman/detail/the-socialist-roots-of-modern-anti-semitism
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July 26, 2014 8:36pm
Reid

Shawn is it possible to cwiticise Iswael without being, in your hallucination, “anti-Semitic?” Or not really?

Tell me, have you seen this bit?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPGb4STRfKw

Remind you of anyone?
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July 26, 2014 8:48pm
Nostradamus

More academic psycho-babble, this time from Sue Bradford, who has been busy writing a PhD thesis.

Sue’s message: let’s have left-wing think tanks in New Zealand!

She defines “Left” as follows:

Left: a commitment to working for a world based on values of fairness, inclusion, participatory democracy, solidarity and equality, and to transforming Aotearoa into a society grounded in economic, social, environmental and Tiriti justice.

Yikes!

Just imagine what her definition of “Right” would look like!
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July 26, 2014 9:18pm
wat dabney

Yoza,

“Looks like an Israeli government PR campaign to provide a smokescreen for their campaign of mass-murder in Gaza.”

So John Minto is actually working for the Israeli government.

Fiendishly clever. But that’s Jews for you, am I right Yoza?

Any more such insights?

Please. Don’t keep them to yourself.
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July 26, 2014 9:31pm
cricko

Hi Reid.

Now it is wrong to judge a person by their opinion on just one subject, and I may have been guilty of that in
your case on this subject.
Usually you do offer thoughtfull reasons.

So, without qualifying reasons, and as a starting point whereby we may reach common ground .
Could you please answer.

Does Israel have a right to exist ?
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July 26, 2014 9:46pm
TimG_Oz

Hi Reid,

Reprinting this for you. Hat Tip: Asher the Anarchist

http://kyriarchy.tumblr.com/post/91909762972/how-to-criticize-israel-without-being-anti-semitic
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July 26, 2014 9:58pm
cricko

If Reid is incapable/ unable to answer,

Is there anyone game to engage,

“Does Israel have the right to exist ?”
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July 26, 2014 10:03pm
RF

Johnboy… I am concerned you have between 2 & 4 stalkers that persist in giving you down ticks. I have been running defence for you with up ticks but getting over run by the minus brigade. What the hell did you do.. Get someone’s ewe pregnant ?
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July 26, 2014 10:18pm
cricko

Oh well, I did try.

Waited 15 mins, now am driven back to the footy.

However this wont go away Reid.

You are going to have to declare one day.

In the meantime, while you consider your position, good luck to you and good luck to your family.
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July 26, 2014 10:18pm
lilman

lol,call sodomy what you like,if its forced on you its wrong ,bitches!!!!!!!!!!!!
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July 26, 2014 10:24pm
dad4justice

Thank you Crusaders. Now we need the Brumbies to beat the Waratahs.
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July 26, 2014 10:32pm
Reid

Back after watching a great movie: Berlin Job. Highly recommend it.

Yes, of course Israel has a right to exist.

Provided of course she obeys God.

Otherwise, according to the Bible, she doesn’t. (That’s not me saying that, that’s God, in Deuteronomy)

As we all know, Jesus and his apostles had great troubles with Jews who kept wanting to kill them.

I guess the question really is, has anything changed in terms of Israel being obedient to God since those days, or not?

And possibly Fox News doesn’t have a whole lot to add to that question, if we’re really serious about what the correct answer might be.
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July 26, 2014 11:03pm
ShawnLH

Reid,

“Shawn is it possible to cwiticise Iswael without being, in your hallucination, “anti-Semitic?” Or not really?”

You do realise that replacing R’s with W’s makes you look like a dickhead, right?

“Yes, of course Israel has a right to exist.

Provided of course she obeys God.”

That is up to God to determine, not you. And it applies to Muslims, who clearly don’t obey God when they engage in terrorism.

“I guess the question really is, has anything changed in terms of Israel being obedient to God since those days, or not?”

Israel’s existence does not depend on your comic book pseudo-theology.

No, the real question is Reid, why don’t YOU obey God? Because with your rhetoric on Israel and the Jews it’s pretty clear to me that you’re spitting on Christ and His Word and following demons.

Good luck with that.
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July 26, 2014 11:17pm
Reid

That is up to God to determine, not you.

Yes BUT GOD HAS GIVEN THE INSTRUCTIONS IN DEUTERONOMY. WHAT ABOUT THAT DOESN’T A BIBLICAL SCHOLAR LIKE YOU UNDERSTAND?

You’ll of course be aware of the conditional nature of those instructions: i.e. unless Israel was obedient to God, the deal was off and He would bring forces of destruction upon them.

So why don’t YOU obey God?

Good luck with that, my brother.
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July 26, 2014 11:20pm
Reid

No doubt Shawn is furiously googling refutations to the clear and unequivocal conditions laid out by God.

I’m off to bed.

Whatever he comes back with, if you want the truth, first in your heart ask God prayerfully and truthfully to give you wisdom and insight, then read the Bible.

All other sources, including me, are suspect by comparison.
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July 26, 2014 11:41pm
Dean Papa

Have those peace loving Israelis fessed up to this yet?

http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/worldservice/witness/witness_20130722-0855a.mp3
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July 26, 2014 11:52pm
Yoza

TimG_Oz (917 comments) says:
July 26th, 2014 at 9:58 pm

Hi Reid,

Reprinting this for you. Hat Tip: Asher the Anarchist

That list of things people are not allowed has some questionable advice.

For example

Don’t claim that Jews are ethnically European. Jews come in many colors—white is only one. Besides, the fact that many of us have some genetic mixing with the peoples who tried to force us to assimilate (be they German, Indian, Ethiopian, Italian…) doesn’t change the fact that all our common ancestral roots go back to Israel.

Shlomo Sand, Professor of History at Tel Aviv University, obviously missed that particular memo when writing The Invention of the Jewish People.
Leon T. Hadar reviews:

“Countering official Zionist historiography, Sand questions whether the Jewish People ever existed as a national group with a common origin in the Land of Israel/Palestine. He concludes that the Jews should be seen as a religious community comprising a mishmash of individuals and groups that had converted to the ancient monotheistic religion but do not have any historical right to establish an independent Jewish state in the Holy Land. In short, the Jewish People, according to Sand, are not really a “people” in the sense of having a common ethnic origin and national heritage. They certainly do not have a political claim over the territory that today constitutes Israel and the occupied Palestinian territories, including Jerusalem.”

And this?

Don’t use the Holocaust/Nazism/Hitler as a rhetorical prop. The Jews who were murdered didn’t set foot in what was then Palestine, let alone take part in Israeli politics or policies. It is wrong and appropriative to try to use their deaths to score political points. Genocide, racism, occupation, murder, extermination—go ahead and use those terms, but leave the Holocaust out of it.

Perhaps Noam Chomsky needs to be made aware of this list of no-nos
Noam Chomsky: “It is a poor tribute to the memories of the victims of the Holocaust to adopt the central doctrine of their murderers.”

Oh really?

Don’t say that since Palestinians are Semites, Jews/Israelis are anti-Semitic, too. You do not get to redefine the oppressions of others, nor do you get to police how they refer to that oppression. This also often ties into #8. Don’t do it. Anti-Semitism has exclusively meant anti-Jewish bigotry for a good century plus now. Coin your own word for anti-Palestinian oppression, or just call it what it is: racism mixed with Islamophobia.

This is one of the dodgier arguments. Too often any critic of Israel is tagged as an anti-Semite, it seems to infuriate those who conflate the two issues when it is pointed out to them that the Palestinians are also a Semitic people and their treatment at the hands of the Israelis could also be described as a form of anti-Semitism. It seem more than a little arrogant to claim only Jews can suffer from anti-Semitic actions or intentions.

The list does make many valid points, but I would not hold it up as a hard and fast example of what people should or shouldn’t do when criticising Israel. I find using common sense and adhering to common human decency the best course.
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July 28, 2014 12:49am
ShawnLH

“You’ll of course be aware of the conditional nature of those instructions: i.e. unless Israel was obedient to God, the deal was off and He would bring forces of destruction upon them.”

Wrong. If you look at the entire content of the Bible God only says that He will discipline His people, but that the Covenant promises are eternal.

“No doubt Shawn is furiously googling refutations to the clear and unequivocal conditions laid out by God.”

No, Googling theology is what you do. I have studied theology at both secular and Anglican institutions. That is the difference Reid, your “theology” is just bs you get off the net, and you do so selectively to justify your Neo-Nazi crap.
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July 28, 2014 4:02am
Manolo

Another useless and shameless trougher is bought up by the German fraudster:
http://news.msn.co.nz/nationalnews/8881187/georgina-beyer-to-run-for-mana-party
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July 28, 2014 6:30am

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