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June 8, 2014 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 8 June 2014

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RightNow

Banks to resign: http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/10133347/John-Banks-to-resign

Thank you John, that will turn the tables on all those calling for your head. Now we can demand they act with integrity themselves.

When is Len Brown going to show anywhere near the same integrity? Or David Cun’, Kim the Crim, Hone Where’s my Mana, and so on and so on. The left are collectively fucked now, they got they what they wished for.
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June 8, 2014 6:02pm
cha

Will there be any retraction by the MSM who carried this distorted version of the fact?

Must be concise – the bodies of nearly eight hundred children were disposed of in an unmarked mass grave – there, that’s better.
/
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June 8, 2014 6:04pm
stephieboy

One Track , and cover stories etc and lie about them . ?,

For example,

http://www.salon.com/2013/10/18/inside_the_fox_news_lie_machine_i_fact_checked_sean_hannity_on_obamacare/

and,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fox_News_Channel_controversies
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June 8, 2014 6:11pm
Paul Marsden

Banksie gone and the right thing to do ( a good man, even though he erred on this one)

Many politicans shold be very afraid..
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June 8, 2014 6:12pm
Fletch

Obama committed treason

Treason is defined by, “The offense of betraying one’s own country by attempting to overthrow the government through waging war against the state or materially aiding it’s enemies”. Article III, Section 3 of the United States Constitution specifically states that, “Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort”.

When Barack Obama released five-high ranking Taliban officials for Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl, a deserter, Obama betrayed the highest obligation of his office – safeguarding national security. This is a fact that cannot be refuted.

The President admitted this on Tuesday when a reporter asked, “Is there the possibility of some of them [The Taliban Five] returning to activities that are detrimental against the U.S.” Obama responded, “Absolutely“. Today, not even a week after their release to Qatar, one of the five Taliban leaders released confirmed Obama’s statement.

Mullah Norullah Noori, one of the five senior Taliban commander’s released who is also wanted by the United Nations (UN) for war crimes including the murder of thousands of Shiite Muslims, was the one who confirmed Obama’s statement.

http://politicallyshort.com/2014/06/07/barack-obama-has-committed-treason/
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June 8, 2014 6:17pm
Fletch

If the latest action of Obama freeing terrorists is not reason enough for impeachment, I don’t know what is. The man is lawless.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HiK8_NCRSTI
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June 8, 2014 6:19pm
Manolo

Ignorant and gullible people like Stephieboy, naïve to the point of stupidity, are the ones who elevated the Kenyan to the White House. Obama is a disgrace and a traitor to the United States.
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June 8, 2014 6:20pm
Longknives

You guys are wasting your breath..Obama is ‘The Messiah’ and therefore infallible!
The Nobel Peace Prize Winner (For doing what again?) would have been impeached over the Benghazi incident if he was ever going to take a slide over anything (That business was far more disgraceful than Watergate!)
But to criticise the ‘Messiah’ makes you an ‘evil racist’ so Obama is therefore exempt from being held to account…
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June 8, 2014 6:26pm
David Garrett

A very sad end to Banks’ career…As always in these situations, and for obvious reasons, I feel for his family…As difficult as it is, it was the right thing for him to do

Although others have been baying for him to get Home Detention or even a prison sentence, a discharge without conviction would be the just result…losing ones career is a pretty stiff punishment, particularly for a man like Banks…
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June 8, 2014 6:27pm
Fletch

re: Banks..

It’s interesting that when then Attorney-General David Parker was caught filing false statements with the Companies Office in 2006, Helen Clark backed him, even when there was major evidence against him.

I can’t find the links now, but wasn’t Parker cleared by some very dubious letter (supposedly from the Compnaies Office) without even a letterhead at all which somehow “exonerated” him? By rights, Parker shouldn’t be in Parliament right now, all things being equal. If not for some dodgy handiwork by Clark and co he wouldn’t be.

Labour should think about that when talking about Banks.
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June 8, 2014 6:33pm
Longknives

DG- I only wish he had fallen on his sword earlier. His actions in not resigning straight away were akin to someone from the Left!
I struggle to have any sympathy for anyone who gets mixed up with the German Criminal….
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June 8, 2014 6:36pm
David Garrett

Fletch: Yes…One of Ian Wishart’s books dealt with this issue…Wishart virtually accused Parker of having fabricated a letter from the Companies Office (IIRC it had a letterhead, but it was a letterhead not used at the time the letter was dated) thus inviting Parker to sue for defamation…He didn’t.

And again IIRC Parker’s error was arguably worse…he ticked a box on a form which said there had been a resolution not to appoint an auditor when there had been no such resolution…Parker explained it as “an oversight”…Company directors know, or ought to know, whether such a resolution has been made or not…
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June 8, 2014 6:38pm
nasska

Telling it as it was….note, no MSM to blame. Link at bottom….

The article is a transcription of an interview with Mari Steed who is the co-founder of the group Justice for Magdalenes and US coordinator for the Adoption Rights Alliance, Ireland….

…” You can pull death registers from the opening date of most of these homes, say from 1930 up to 1955, and the numbers are shocking. The numbers for all three of the Sacred Heart homes, in Cork, Tipperary, and Westmeath, were double or triple the national mortality rate for infants.”….

Also

….”a local medical inspector and went into Bessboro [the Sacred Hearts home in Cork] because he had heard stories of staggering numbers of children dying. He went in for an inspection. The nuns thought they were being clever and put nice clean white linens in the babies’ cots, but when their backs were turned, he pulled down the covers and discovered there were outbreaks of Streptococcus going around, and masses of children lying around infected. That would explain in certain years like that we’re seeing such a high death rate.”…..

The loveliness continues:

….”We are seeing, as we pull death certificates, an overwhelming number of children showing up as dying from acute malnutrition. There’s also heart failure, sepsis — many of them very treatable. Given decent medical care, they would have survived.”……

At the risk of vomiting your tea, read the whole article. We’re not talking ancient history. The last of these “homes” were still operating in the 60’s.

http://www.vox.com/2014/6/5/5779902/how-mid-century-ireland-dealt-with-unwed-mothers-and-their-children
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June 8, 2014 6:39pm
David Garrett

‘Knives: I have to be a bit careful what I say…matter still before the court and all…Let’s just say two things: firstly the Judge has found against Banks on credibility, and that is a very hard ground to appeal on since it was the Judge at first instance who heard all the evidence and saw the witnesses giving that evidence…secondly in the case of at least one witness, the finding that HE was a credible witness seems rather odd given all the evidence…..Don’t ask me to elaborate; I can’t
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June 8, 2014 6:45pm
Griff

ACT

This has to be the final deathblow to the ACT party. Donna, Dave and now John have poohed the nest to much.

Leaves some of us party less.

The right needs true liberal and conservative options not just a National pander to the center and satisfy none party.

Colon Crags Confused Cristian party aint gonna cut it bar a few rabid self deluded terminally insane wing nuts.
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June 8, 2014 6:47pm
tom hunter

You guys are wasting your breath..Obama is ‘The Messiah’ and therefore infallible!

True that. As I pointed out earlier in the thread , about one of Obama’s faithful minions attacking Bergdahl’s fellow soldiers:

Having had a chance to see Bergdahl’s fellow soldiers with our own eyes, we can deduce that Friedman’s rhetorical question presents a pure case of projection. Friedman is one of the (political) psychopaths of the Obama administration who will do and say anything in the service of the Dear Leader. They are uninhibited by conscience.
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June 8, 2014 6:48pm
David Garrett

Nasska: I think the most significant thing about these awful revelations is that the Bishop now responsible for the Diocese has come out and said what has happened was appalling, and that there needs to be a public enquiry…That’s a refreshing change from the usual reaction of the Catholic Church when its dirty linen is displayed in public…

Griff: As Rodney used to say (you missed him out) the MSM have been predicted the Party’s demise for years…one of these days they will be right…
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June 8, 2014 6:51pm
cha

Juan Pujol García’s imagination.

.

Not content with being an agent himself, he used a Blue Guide to England, a book on the railways, a few reference manuals, and a couple of old magazines to invent a handful of completely fictitious agents roaming England. He dreamt up lives and adventures for each of his agents, fabricated intelligence reports from them, and solemnly passed the information back to his German handlers in the Abwehr, where the communications were received with earnest appreciation.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/dominicselwood/100274893/the-spy-who-saved-d-day/

http://www.badassoftheweek.com/pujol.html
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June 8, 2014 7:00pm
nasska

What has happened is been & done DG. There will be an enquiry & that will open the way for claims for monetary settlements.

It’s the people, of whom this forum has no shortage, who push their heads firmly into the sand & deny that these atrocities ever occurred who should feel deep shame.
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June 8, 2014 7:04pm
David Garrett

Cha: I wasn’t aware of the whole “Garbo” story…Were you aware that the Brits managed to arrest every single German agent sent to Britain? They were all given a stark choice: become double agents and send bullshit under British direction, or be hanged…a significant number of brave agents chose the second option….
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June 8, 2014 7:13pm
Fletch

Must be concise – the bodies of nearly eight hundred children were disposed of in an unmarked mass grave – there, that’s better.

Did you even read the article? There likely weren’t eight hundred – nothing like that – and they weren’t “dumped”.

Catherine Corless’s research revealed that 796 children died at St Mary’s. She now says the nature of their burial has been widely misrepresented.

‘I never used that word ‘dumped’,” Catherine Corless, a local historian in Co Galway, tells The Irish Times. “I never said to anyone that 800 bodies were dumped in a septic tank. That did not come from me at any point. They are not my words.”

Corless, who lives outside Tuam, has been working for several years on records associated with the former St Mary’s mother-and-baby home in the town. Her research has revealed that 796 children, most of them infants, died between 1925 and 1961, the 36 years that the home, run by Bon Secours, existed.

The children’s names, ages, places of birth and causes of death were recorded. The average number of deaths over the 36-year period was just over 22 a year. The information recorded on these State- issued certificates has been seen by The Irish Times; the children are marked as having died variously of tuberculosis, convulsions, measles, whooping cough, influenza, bronchitis and meningitis, among other illnesses.

The deaths of these 796 children are not in doubt. Their numbers are a stark reflection of a period in Ireland when infant mortality in general was very much higher than today, particularly in institutions, where infection spread rapidly. At times during those 36 years the Tuam home housed more than 200 children and 100 mothers, plus those who worked there, according to records Corless has found.

What has upset, confused and dismayed her in recent days is the speculative nature of much of the reporting around the story, particularly about what happened to the children after they died. “I never used that word ‘dumped’,” she says again, with distress. “I just wanted those children to be remembered and for their names to go up on a plaque. That was why I did this project, and now it has taken [on] a life of its own.”

Corless writes in her article about hearing of boys who “came upon a sort of crypt in the ground, and on peering in they saw several small skulls. I’m told they ran for their lives and relayed their find to their parents.”

[…]

In his kitchen, Sweeney demonstrates the size of this concrete flag as he recalls it: it’s an area a little bigger than his coffee table, about 120cm long and 60cm wide. He says he does not recall seeing any other similar flags in their many visits to the area.

Between them the boys levered up the slab. “There were skeletons thrown in there. They were all this way and that way. They weren’t wrapped in anything, and there were no coffins,” he says. “But there was no way there were 800 skeletons down that hole. Nothing like that number. I don’t know where the papers got that.” How many skeletons does he believe there were? “About 20.”

[…]

But there is confusion about what dates these maps relate to. One map Corless shows The Irish Times is dated 1892. It describes the building on the site as “Children’s Home”, but in 1892 the building was a workhouse. It did not become a home until 1925. Corless had not noticed this until her attention was drawn to it.

She is sure that a sewage tank operated on the site in the early part of the 20th century because minutes of the workhouse’s board meetings published at the time by the Tuam Herald report problems of overflowing.

Would it have taken up the entire space of what is now known as the unofficial graveyard for the babies who died at the home? “No,” she says. “Maybe a third of the area.” She believes that what Sweeney and Hopkins found was the former sewage tank, which she had previously referred to in her article as a crypt. It seems this is where the story of “800 skeletons dumped in a septic tank” has subsequently come from.

Even if a number of children are indeed interred in what was once a sewage tank, horrific as that thought is, there cannot be 796 of them. The public water scheme came to Tuam in 1937. Between 1925, when the home opened, and 1937 the tank remained in use. During that period 204 children died at the home. Corless admits that it now seems impossible to her that more than 200 bodies could have been put in a working sewage tank.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/tuam-mother-and-baby-home-the-trouble-with-the-septic-tank-story-1.1823393?page=1

So, it’s a case of a woman only studying the deaths because she wanted to raise money for a plaque to remember them – the media gets ahold of it and spins it to become a story about 800 children dying in a tank.
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June 8, 2014 7:13pm
mike tan

I completely agree that the right needs a strong, credible libertarian party (and i don’t currently see this in ACT). Even if it is not in power, its existence will have a balancing impact on where our mainstream parties sit on our political spectrum. The party needs to be truly libertarian in that it should be as liberal on social issues as it is on financial issues.
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June 8, 2014 7:17pm
Griff

Dave I was a long term member ! I have a near complete set of parliamentary Christmas cards to prove it. 😆 … I knew Roger D in the late seventy’s….
I resigned when Banks was nominated. John B was and still is a Conservative Christian.
I would love to see a party that sticks to the original ACT party principles. A party that was standing for liberal ideals, free market, fact based decisions and individual responsibility.
Unfortunately ACT and its leadership board have sullied the original intent to much for me to trust them with my vote again.
It would take a very brave campaigner to convince me they are back to the original vision for the party.
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June 8, 2014 7:19pm
David Garrett

Griff: Are you one of those who sees law and order policies as being somehow incompatible with Classical Liberalism?

I take it you are aware of the Constitution – Clause 3 or 5 I think – which says “the first duty of any government is ensuring the safety of its citizens” ??
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June 8, 2014 7:24pm
mike tan

David: It depends on what you define as “law and order policies”.

“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.”

Benjamin Franklin

There is no issue with sacrificing some liberty for security, provided that evidence can be provided that the sacrifice will yield security, and that it is necessary. We can’t have complete anarchy, but we can’t have a security state either. Anything that shifts us toward either side of the spectrum is in need of strong justification.
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June 8, 2014 7:31pm
David Garrett

Well quite obviously I refer to three strikes…I am always astounded when I hear those who claim to be ACT members not agreeing with ever longer sentences for recidivist violent offenders…My next question for them is to ask how 3S is incompatible with clause 3 or 5 or whatever it is…Invariably said person has never actually read the Constitution…
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June 8, 2014 7:34pm
Griff

David I have defended you on here in the past…
I have absolutely no problem with your three strike policy in fact I would go further and use the ultimate sanction for some of our worse recidivist offenders.
Along with personal freedom comes Responsibility for your deliberate actions. Rights need to be balanced with Obligations.
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June 8, 2014 7:35pm
cha

Of course Fletch, nothing to see here – move along.

https://storify.com/Limerick1914/children-s-home-in-tuam-1920s-1960s

https://twitter.com/hashtag/800deadbabies
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June 8, 2014 7:38pm
nasska

….”We can’t have complete anarchy, but we can’t have a security state either. “…..

With the sheer volume of statutes that we are forced to live by I feel that the drift into anarchy will be a long & tedious process.. 🙂
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June 8, 2014 7:39pm
cha

Nice, dying rooms.
/

http://www.newstalk.ie/Undaunted:-Tuam-babies–One-scandal-too-many
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June 8, 2014 7:40pm
Griff

http://www.act.org.nz/?q=principles

The ACT Party promotes an open, progressive and compassionate society where New Zealanders are free to achieve their potential and build successful families, businesses and lives.

The ACT Party believes:

Individuals are the rightful owners of their own lives with inherent rights and responsibilities
The purpose of government is to protect these rights and not to assume such responsibilities.

The ACT Party will promote, develop and pursue policies and proposals which:

Encourage individual choice, responsibility and excellence.
Enhance living standards for all New Zealanders through sustainable economic growth and international competitiveness.
Enhance choice and diversity, and raise standards of achievement in education. The ACT Party supports partnership with schools and the early childhood education model.
Ensure all New Zealanders have access to world-class health care and security in retirement; provide social and economic support for New Zealanders that genuinely need it.
Sustain first-rate national security that protects individuals and their property.
Explore and implement practical, innovative ways to protect our natural environment.
Maintain sound economic management, including a balanced government budget, price stability and a free and open market economy.
Limit the involvement of central and local government to areas where collective action is required e.g. Law and Order, Defence and Justice.

Together, we can achieve a safe, healthy and prosperous country led by a stable, disciplined Government that protects individuals, their families, the environment, and the economy.
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June 8, 2014 7:41pm
David Garrett

Griff: Thank you for that…the main reason I have changed my mind about the “ultimate sanction” is I fear that with the general lack of resolve of society these days we would end up with heaps of what lawyers call “perverse verdicts”: verdicts of manslaughter when the evidence clearly supported a verdict of murder…That and the fact that we now have LWOP as an available sentence for the worse cases of murder…

Nasska: If I had stayed, one of the things I was going to push for was a “no net increase in laws” policy…i.e for every new law passed, an old one had to be repealed…there are literally thousands of laws that no longer have any purpose…
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June 8, 2014 7:42pm
David Garrett

DPF must be at some play…he has yet to give us his take on Banks’ departure…I’ll be surprised if its anything much different from what we have all said here…
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June 8, 2014 7:53pm
Griff

Three strikes for capital crimes… murder, manslaughter, rape with violence and any extremely violent crime. The first sentence is aimed mostly at rehabilitation the second includes a mandatory suspended ultimate sanction….on the third such conviction the prior suspended sentence is carried out with no chance of appeal no lawyers involved and no time wasted.
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June 8, 2014 7:56pm
David Garrett

Well Griff, all I can say about that is no major party would ever support it…and I very much doubt ACT would either! As I have said, we have all become far too soft these days…there are many people who wouldn’t even agree with a bullet in the back of the head for Bell and Burton…
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June 8, 2014 8:04pm
nasska

If there’s any one of you out of work don’t think of yourself as being “unemployed”.

Rather, think of yourself as a highly trained back-up in case the entire Human Rights Commission is wiped out in a plane crash.
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June 8, 2014 8:05pm
mike tan

All who support the death penalty. How do you reconcile this with the fact that false convictions occur?

Secondly, for all the retribution folk, are you not doing a criminal a favor by putting them out of their misery as opposed to having them live a life that is completely deprived of liberty? Faced with LWOP or death, i would most definitely prefer the latter.
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June 8, 2014 8:14pm
David Garrett

Mike Tan: False convictions are certainly the very best argument against CP…When I wrote my book 15 years ago the latest widely acknowledged mistake was Thomas 25 years earlier.. there have been far too many cases where there is at least some doubt since..

And I quite agree: LWOP in a the secure block at Pare is definitely a harsher sentence than hanging…which of course explains the relatively high suicide rate among lifers…
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June 8, 2014 8:22pm
mike tan

Seeing as we agree and there is no duel to be had there, what are your thoughts on euthanasia? I saw my grandparents suffer immensely throughout the end stage of their lives and found it tragic that despite available means, they were prohibited from choosing the time and circumstances of their departure.

While i think that it should be legalized, I don’t think it should be easily available, there needs to be strong controls to ensure that it isn’t being abused.
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June 8, 2014 8:30pm
Griff

They cop the bullet for the second offense so who cares buddy…. plenty of time to appeal that conviction whilst they do the time. Dean Wickliffe and our own sick puppy on kb who must not be named spring to mind as good candidates for the 303 sentence.
I have known a few screws as friends. Those who baby sit the contents of “d block” and the like for a lively hood. I also associated with scooter trash like the hells arseholes in my misspent youth… The worse of the trash is just worthless shit that we should clean from the planet,…
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June 8, 2014 8:37pm
RightNow

Is it just me or is griff unusually coherent today?
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June 8, 2014 8:38pm
adze

I suspect this will burn a few undies here, especially after the discussion in the Syria thread 🙂

http://english.alarabiya.net/en/News/middle-east/2014/06/06/Islamic-prayers-to-be-held-at-the-Vatican.html

Meanwhile non-Muslims are not even allowed in Mecca…
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June 8, 2014 8:38pm
thedavincimode

cha/DG

Operation Fortitude by Joseph Levine.
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June 8, 2014 8:40pm
stephieboy

adze ,Interesting how the Israeli Knesset even allows a worship area for its Muslim members or is that being rather PC.?
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June 8, 2014 8:41pm
David Garrett

Mike: I am a believer in very carefully controlled euthanasia…I remember having a heated discussion with Bill English once…strong catholic, so vehement opponent of euthanasia under ANY circumstances…The worse cases are those with dreadful diseases like motor neurone disease…no real pain involved, just a dreadful tortured death as the nerves slowly shut down…they end up drowning in their saliva because they cant cough…awful…
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June 8, 2014 8:51pm
David Garrett

Stephie: there you are…still waiting for you to tell us why a 2% or 5% Muslim population would have different effects here than it has had in other countries…Australia, Britain, France and Germany…and now it appears Sweden as well…the epitome of racial tolerance in the past…
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June 8, 2014 8:54pm
Gulag1917

Malcolm Fraser: An unlikely radical
April 26, 2014
Robert Manne
Hated by progressives for his role in Gough Whitlam’s dismissal and his ultra-conservative foreign policies when Liberal PM, Malcolm Fraser today believes Australia should cut all military ties to the US.
http://www.smh.com.au/national/people/malcolm-fraser-an-unlikely-radical-20140421-36ze8.html
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June 8, 2014 8:56pm
cha

Ta TDM.

Googling Mr Levine.

http://levinehistory.wordpress.com/2014/06/02/the-unlikely-story-of-the-german-invasion-spies/
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June 8, 2014 8:59pm
stephieboy

Manolo (12,934 comments) says:
June 8th, 2014 at 6:20 pm

The delusions never cease with you now do they.? .

David Garrett , among the 2% or 5 % there would be only a relatively small number of Jihadist crazies . Are you suggesting the Muslims I work with and know very well automatically support jihad and based also just on their appearances and the colour of their skin.?
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June 8, 2014 9:04pm
mike tan

Can the person that down ticked David’s post on his views regarding euthanasia please elaborate on their position?
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June 8, 2014 9:10pm
adze

I asked a Muslim the reason for banning non-Muslims from Mecca, this was his/her response:

Let me explain it like this. Mecca is more than just a city or a site for pilgrimage. It is a symbol of unity among the global Muslim community, the Ummah. Islam is a religion that is meant to transcend all petty human divisions and prejudices: nationality, ethnicity, skin color, profession, rank, etc. When in Mecca, surrounded by nothing but Muslims as far as the eye can see, from every corner of the Earth, and you know they are all there to do the same thing, well, its a very powerful and moving sensation. This isn’t some tourist spot or attraction. Mecca serves a very specific purpose with a very serious atmosphere. Its really hard to convey this to a non-Muslims, but the reason it is exclusive to Muslims is because there is a very real ritualistic and symbolic aura surrounding the city and the pilgrimage. It is one of the most important things a Muslim will do in their entire life, and among many other factors, limiting it to just Muslims keeps the experience authentic and transcendent. This isn’t like just some other city, it is the holiest of holies. The spot that all Muslims on Earth pray towards, 5 times a day, to display unity and solidarity of this creed. Again, its hard for me to explain this to a non-believer the way a Muslim understands it, but to put it simply: If you have non-Muslim’s in the city, they are there for reasons other than the creed. This city is the center of the Islamic (mundane) universe, and is to be maintained in the most solemn and genuine manner possible. You can’t corrupt that with people there trynna take photos or see sights or whatever. It serves too specific and important a role in the religion.
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June 8, 2014 9:10pm
nasska

stephieboy

Amongst the group of NZ European & Maori I associate with I can with absolute certainty state that not one of them support jihad. They’re not too keen on having their daughters genitally mutilated & their wives walk where they bloody well please.

Why bother taking a risk?
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June 8, 2014 9:11pm
David Garrett

Stephie: You are just not following the argument are you? either that or you are not very bright…Here’s the argument again, just for you:

How Muslims behave now, when they are less than 1% of the population, is likely to be very very different when they achieve 2%, as they have in Australia…and as Nasska puts it very well – why take the chance?

Mike: the explanation for the down tick is that some children on here just automatically downtick me and others…just because they can, sitting in their underpants in a darkened room, in front of their computers…
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June 8, 2014 9:15pm
stephieboy

David Garrett , I still don’t understand how 1% going into 2% automatically makes Muslims a security threat to NZ.Certainly a small minority within that could be and like anyone else should be monitored and expelled if in flagrant breach of our laws.
Why do far righters such as yourself like tarring people with the same brush and demonize a whole community.?
nasska, what evidence do you have that all Muslims in NZ support Jihad. ?
Thats the bottom line as I see it.
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June 8, 2014 9:40pm
David Garrett

Stephie: Pointless wasting any more time on you…in fact I have wasted too much already…
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June 8, 2014 9:50pm
adze

@stephieboy

I think what DG is saying is that historically, in western nations, when the local Muslim population reaches a certain percentage threshold, some kind of tipping point is reached: whether because of the statistical likelihood of ratbags above a certain point, or whether there is a critical growth milestone within a community where radical Islamism becomes either tolerated or emboldened; or whether that is coincidentally the point at which a second generation of Muslims which happens to produce more bolshy attitudes than the first; I don’t know.
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June 8, 2014 9:54pm
Griff

Right now.
Recursive fury is sooo cute in a wing nut even a non practicing one .

Like
Other Andy…. S and his straw man wittering @9.44 this morning. Something about his imagination and the ice caps all melting this year… Recursive fury generated straw man rubbish to defend his cog’ dis’ that was not worth even a good poke and a laugh. I decided it was much more fun soaking bits of fergie whilst adding 20 amps @ 14.4v dc of electricity and a sacrificial anode to remove sixty odd years of rust and grease.

Dick Toy is a good topic for you to explore in full. 😆 and the 97%

here
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2014/06/06/richard-tol-fights-back-with-an-article-in-the-guardian-showing-that-cooks-97-consensus-is-actually-nonsensus/

here
http://www.skepticalscience.com/climate-contrarians-accidentally-confirm-97-percent-consensus.html

here
this is Toi the ~~dildo~~ man himself in reply to the public destruction of his error ridden four times rejected paper

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/blog/2014/jun/06/97-consensus-global-warming

Dana Nuccitelli writes that I “accidentally confirm the results of last year’s 97% global warming consensus study”. Nothing could be further from the truth.
I show that the 97% consensus claim does not stand up.
At best, Nuccitelli, John Cook and colleagues may have accidentally stumbled on the right number.

WTF the man Toi is a really confused economist to say the lest. It seems he disagrees with cook et al but is then saying they might just be right ….weird ….EH….

I have lots more links available if you really want to explore the debate

dear dear all that fuss over the 91 % or 97%
Not a significant change in odds to bet humanity’s future on…..even Willard must admit that … Wotts up with that Willard who inhabits his own echo chamber of sycophantic circle jerking… so who really cares about his thoughts if any..

~~DickToy~~ Richard Toi has now unmistakeably backed the consensus is over 91% even with his own silly attempts at statistical manipulation.

In fact from the man himself …minus the papers gremlins 😆

http://andthentheresphysics.wordpress.com/2014/05/10/richard-tol-and-the-97-consensus-again/#comment-21162

Richard Tol (@RichardTol) says:
May 11, 2014 at 7:55 am

@Wotts

Published papers that seek to test what caused the climate change over the last century and half, almost unanimously find that humans played a dominant role.

That my friend should be the final say on the topic of the 97% consensus considering the IPCC is not even as certain as our friend ~~Dick Toy~~ Richard Toi really is.
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June 8, 2014 10:07pm
cricko

hi mike tan,

get over it.

just post…”Why?” then,
Why,why,oh my, why ?

And then,
can that person identify themself ?
Hey, you’r a real card mike tan
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June 8, 2014 11:01pm
Manolo

UT will be elated: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2651700/Hellfire-Muslim-teachers-Trojan-Horse-school-warned-six-year-olds-white-prostitutes.html
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June 9, 2014 6:22am
Left Right and Centre

stephieboy – it’s fair to say that with NZ’s RWC results from 1991 onwards . . . no-one expects them to win – least of all by big margins. Next up is the NH RWC – where NZ’s finishes have been 3rd, 4th and losing quarter-finalists. Goodness !! They’ve yet to contest a final above the equator. Based on historical results – losing semi-finalists. They’ve yet to win one on the road.

SPC – AB’s were also playing for their country at home at Eden Park. The ‘extra leg’ factor. Maybe they are feeling the effects of a tough super rugby season. They’re also playing in a ‘new team’ and that can take some adjusting. You really wonder about fatigue – these blokes are pro rugby players – built like bodybuilders or powerlifters etc – work on their cardio fitness – really ?

The English might be rested but the counter argument is could also be rusty for lack of recent time in the middle, also the travel plus changing seasons to NZ winter. The AB’s didn’t change seasons playing at home. It’s summer or start of summer in the UK – Wimby coming up – hello ?

No break for ABs – um – well, apart from the bye weeks – which a lot of teams hate because they lose momentum and can grow cobwebs after two weeks off.

England are a powerhouse rugby nation. It would work the other way as well. NZ ‘B’ wouldn’t get smashed by England ‘A’ – with NZ’s depth they’d still be competitive.
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June 9, 2014 6:29am
Left Right and Centre

Longknives – Maria is not bad looking – tall – and can be a laugh with her comments. The shrieking – wow. And the dress sense is often screaming louder than the shrieking. One lower ranked opponent after an upset win at Wimby was quoted as saying that she just had to beat Maria because her outfit was so awful. It was the year of the ‘tuxedo dress’.

I was surprised to see that MS achieved a career grand slam by winning each one once by 2012.
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June 9, 2014 6:38am
Left Right and Centre

I see a bit of ‘parking rage’ was caught on camera in Wellington.

Pre mid 2008 when I still drove a car – I was all lined up to parallel park – reversing of course – into a CBD ordinary nose-to-tail style street space – and I could see these arseholes pull-up behind the space – like they’re going to try and drive into the space forwards. What did I do ? I got out of my car and went and ‘had a chat’ with them. Yep – they were dipshit looking weirdo Asians. Fuck off weirdos. That lovely blank no-one home look on their dumbarse faces.

I’ve seen Asians ‘touch park’ actually touching the car in front or behind – geez you see them doing all kinds of dumb shit. I’m surprised no-one’s actually been rubbed out yet after pissing someone off – probably has happened. Does that count towards the road toll ?
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June 9, 2014 7:05am
Left Right and Centre

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/10133645/Obesity-epidemic-at-crisis-point

I know there’s a lot of fat fuck whites in NZ – but seriously – imagine if America had 20-25% Island / Maori population ? There’d have 60 MILLION+ wasted waistlines to worry about. And a lot more KFC shops.
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June 9, 2014 7:13am
SPC

Left right and Centre, it is not fitness it is fatigue. The local derby’s have been tough on the players. It’s the collisions that tire them out.

Horse trainers prepare horses for the big event, as per the Triple Crown in the USA the horses that came first and second in the last race did not run in the two earlier races (and the owner of the beaten two win horse says it was not a level playing field as the fresher horses had the advantage).

I do agree that the English, via their club comp and Heineken Cup, have developed depth. Which is why when freshened up for a big game they were competitive against a (tired) team playing at home.

The AB’s do very well in the Tri Nations/Southern Championship and on end of year tours once freshened up by no game weeks.
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June 9, 2014 7:14am
Left Right and Centre

Well SPC – it’s really pure speculation and opinion. They aren’t bloody horses I know that much 100% so I’d forget about comparing rugby players to horses – talkback caller logic.

It sounds more like a tired excuse than tired players holmes. And I greenticked you seeing as some retard sadarse no life loser is dishing out the reds.
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June 9, 2014 7:25am
SPC

Left, Right and Centre, the horses do not talk their trainers do, and the AB players simply say the derby games are brutal and take a lot out of them. And it is not an excuse when an observation about sports contests from someone not involved. It’s hard for teams to back up a peak performance.
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June 9, 2014 7:33am
Left Right and Centre

Well they sound a lot softer than they look. Horses aint rugby players. Apples aint oranges. Am I allowed to think that it’s bullshit ?

I don’t hear anyone using horses to explain anything about rugby players. Are you trying to start a new trend ?
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June 9, 2014 7:48am
SPC

Left, Right and Centre, take my advice don’t bet at the TAB if you do not understand what I have been saying.
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June 9, 2014 8:00am
Left Right and Centre

SPC – save it for your call to Radiosport telling them all how wrong they are mate. Don’t forget to explain the horse thing to them – they’ll fucking love that one.
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June 9, 2014 8:03am
SPC

So you get your informed knowledge from those who work in talkback radio … and regard ignorant opinion as that from those who listen to them and or call them.

As I said, you should not bet at the TAB if you think players and teams are going to back up performances week after week.
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June 9, 2014 8:11am
Left Right and Centre

As I said, you should not bet at the TAB if you think players and teams are going to back up performances week after week.

There’s a lot of other factors besides ‘oh super rugby is taking it all out of me and I can hardly step onto the field now’. Come off it. But – you know it all apparently.

No – I listen to it because there’s fuck all else on anywhere else, isn’t it ? And yeah – you get a lot of thick munters ring in. You’d have to be pretty thick to wait 30 mins to talk gobshite for 45 seconds.
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June 9, 2014 8:33am

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