General Debate 25 June 2014

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stephieboy

Redbaiter,

all for you,

The Right-Wing Nutjob Quote-O-Matic
Stupid Quotes by Right-Wing Nutjobs and Crazy Conservatives

”The feminist agenda is not about equal rights for women. It is about a socialist, anti-family political movement that encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism and become lesbians.”

—Pat Robertson

plus,

”I find it interesting that it was back in the 1970s that the swine flu broke out under another, then under another Democrat president, Jimmy Carter. I’m not blaming this on President Obama, I just think it’s an interesting coincidence.”

—Rep. Michele Bachmann , on the 1976 Swine Flu outbreak that happened when Gerald Ford was president, April 28, 2009
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June 25, 2014 2:32pm
dime

“dime, sorry. Your a die hard liberal then. ? Gay and rainbow rights, feminist issues , pc and so on….?”

libertarian leanings.

Dime is a friend of the gays. My best friend is a gay chick.

I dont agree with most of the feminism bullshit as they generally want to take away other peoples rights to advance themselves.

Dime thinks everyone is equal and has equal rights.

In summary – dont fuck with my life and i wont fuck with yours
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June 25, 2014 2:35pm
stephieboy

libertarian leanings.?

Incest made legal.??
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June 25, 2014 2:37pm
dime

“libertarian leanings.?

Incest made legal.??”

really? thats where you go? first thing that enters your mind?

do you have a good looking cousin or something?
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June 25, 2014 2:39pm
kowtow

ciaron

I don’t agree with alot of what’s said here ,but it’s an interesting backgrounder on old Toothy.

http://espn.go.com/espn/feature/story/_/id/10984370/portrait-serial-winner-luis-suarez-soccer-most-beautiful-player
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June 25, 2014 2:42pm
ciaron

Cos the left never say stupid stuff..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I79wUEqBdQc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDEKmI7qKKQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woBC5b3Ti0M
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June 25, 2014 2:50pm
Tauhei Notts

Labour’s new tax announcement.
Actually, I think it is very clever.
The cruncher was the 36% (up from 33%) on retained Trustees’ Income.
I wonder if infant (under age 16) beneficiary income in excess of $1000, which is presently taxed at 33%, will rise to 36%.
Note how the top rate is a little in excess of that earned by highly paid school principals. That will be admired by their base of voters.
And to have a go at Trustees’ Income will appeal to the “envy” crowd. All quite clever.
I’ll wager big money that they are too scared to put Maori trusts on the same 36% punitive tax rate.
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June 25, 2014 3:25pm
Manolo

Tax nirvana according to the socialists:
“Labour will introduce a new, progressive top tax rate of 36 per cent on income over $150,000; that’s the top 2 per cent of income earners. We will also raise trustee income tax to 36 per cent to avoid trusts being used as tax avoidance vehicles.

“This combined with our capital gains tax will allow the Labour-led Government to run surpluses and pay down National’s record debt by the end of our second term,” David Cunliffe says.

David Parker says: “Everything is paid for, plus we are in surplus.

High taxation is the solution to everything according to Silent T and his minion.
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June 25, 2014 3:48pm
Gulag1917

Secret talks bring threat of financial crises

The story of the past week in terms of the Trans Pacific Partnership (TPP) agreement was not Prime Minister John Key’s visit to the White House. The more startling news is that our Government, with almost 50 other countries, is negotiating another secret deal in the shadows of the World Trade Organisation. They are calling to negotiate a Trade in Services Agreement (Tisa).
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=11280883
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June 25, 2014 3:49pm
ShawnLH

Grif, one of our resident Gaia worshipers, opines:

“I give links to scientific papers you give links to conservative sites.
Do you understand the difference?”

You linked to at least one study by a guy who has been seriously discredited, a man who also made up “studies” that supposedly proved that all Asians are uncreative and all black women attractive.

And you expect people to take that seriously?

Been at the weed a little too much lately?

Hiding that kind of drivel behind the “science” label is just plain stupid Griff, and makes you look like a gullible fool.

You treat science like a magic mantra, as though scientists were not fallible human beings who can be biased and dishonest.

That’s not thinking for yourself, it’s being a mindless sheep.

Do you understand the term ‘methodological bias’?

Try thinking for yourself for a change Griff.
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June 25, 2014 3:59pm
Gulag1917

stephieboy
you could be mistaken for being an extreme leftist.
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June 25, 2014 4:03pm
Judith

@ dime (9,153 comments) says:
June 25th, 2014 at 2:39 pm

I was thinking the same thing. Why is it that so many staunchly religious people, seem so obsessed with sex and any sort of sexual acts?
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June 25, 2014 4:05pm
Manolo

And…. he (stephieboy) is one left-wing, progressive, illiberal youngster.
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June 25, 2014 4:05pm
ShawnLH

Red,

“Why respond to it?”

Two reasons. One, that is what a thread called General Debate is for. Debating.

Two, it is important to counter bad ideas or, as in this case, stupidity and political bias pretending to be science, in order to provide the other people reading this with alternative information.

I don’t believe in just writing people off the way you do. People can and do change their views, and no matter how silly some of the things people say, liberals, lefties or otherwise, they are still human beings, and so worthy of dialogue and engagement.
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June 25, 2014 4:11pm
Gulag1917

Judith
“Why is it that so many staunchly religious people, seem so obsessed with sex and any sort of sexual acts?”
Could you provide an example?
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June 25, 2014 4:16pm
ShawnLH

Turns out the supposed “study that got Griff;s source in trouble claimed that black women were less attractive than all other ethnic groups.

Here is the article, from that well known Conservative fundamentalist mag Psychology Today.

That was sarcasm for those without a sense of humor.

Despite that, and other studies, including the conservative vs liberal one, being seriously discredited, Griff still wants us to take it seriously, because he repeated his religious mantra, “Science says.”

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/between-the-lines/201105/beauty-may-be-in-eye-beholder-eyes-see-what-culture-socializes
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June 25, 2014 4:26pm
ShawnLH

Here are the goods on this guy from another Conservative site, Rational Wiki.

“Satoshi Kanazawa is an (alleged) evolutionary psychologist[2] at the London School of Economics and exactly the kind of researcher who makes evolutionary psychology look bad. So say thirty five leading evolutionary psychologists, at least.[3] His chief weapons are causalation, p-value fishing, bad data analysis, bigotry, and surprise. Psychology Today decided to throw standards out the window and gave him a blog, which was ironically named The Scientific Fundamentalist. It later got pulled from the site after he posted some racist drivel dressed up in pseudoscientific language.”

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Satoshi_Kanazawa

“Kanazawa then went completely off the rails and published some studies that read like The Bell Curve with even less tip-toeing around the racism. Why is Africa a third-world shithole? Because Africans are genetically predisposed to stupidity! All he did was take some comparisons of IQ, wealth, and health data, shoehorn in some Savanna principle, and declare Africans to be genetically inferior. That’s not reminiscent of anything, nothing at all. Besides the dubiousness of using IQ in this way,[11] Kanazawa, of course, selectively ignores research showing the cause-and-effect to be the opposite way around.[12][13] Another study he conducted on cross-country differences in intelligence used a model that assumed a flat earth.[14]

Atheists and liberals are smarter

This time around, Kanazawa attempted to demonstrate the intellectual superiority of atheists and liberals. Besides all of the other dubious methodology, one of the studies in the pair he published didn’t even use an IQ test — he simply extrapolated “intelligence” from a verbal test.[15][16][17

So the guy did not even use a valid IQ test, and in another study used a model that assumed a flat earth, but Griff thinks this is hard science!!! 🙂

Read the whole page. The guy is a total nutjob.
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June 25, 2014 4:30pm
cricko

Today in parliament.
I thought, “Did I just see what I thought I did ?”
I checked and, yes I did see it.
What a way to treat a nice dress. Ugh!
Fast fwd to 2.46 mins to see for yourself.

http://www.inthehouse.co.nz/video/33682

If you have a nasty habit like this surely you could at least constrain yourself when
on national television.
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June 25, 2014 4:32pm
Ryan Sproull

Here are the goods on this guy from another Conservative site, Rational Wiki.

That’s the first time I’ve heard Rational Wiki described as Conservative.
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June 25, 2014 4:44pm
Griff

Left/ right is not as simple as the American republican democrat dynamic two party rubbish which is the red blather way of thinking.
Many on here including the owner of the blog are liberal.
liberal does not mean left or socalist
Liberals seek freedom and embrace change they consider it important that we have the choice do to as we please as long as we do not harm others. Conservatives seek stability dislike change and consider church and community override individual freedom.
Change is a human imperative without it we would still be monkeys hanging around in the trees of Africa.
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June 25, 2014 4:50pm
Griff

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Conservative
A conservative on the political spectrum tends to be for the status quo, consistency, and traditional forms, while being against any change on the grounds that it might be for the worse. In the United States today, the term has been conflated by many with very narrow social and religious prescriptions and co-opted by neoconservatism. During the 2008 election campaign, an article in Atlantic Monthly contrasted the old-fashioned conservatism of Edmund Burke with the right-wing radicalism of Newt Gingrich and company.[1]

Note that left/right and liberal/conservative are only regarded as synonymous in the United States. In the UK, the Liberal Democrats are both socially and economically liberal (yet more on the fluffy socialistic side and not very libertarian). Following a hung parliament in 2010 they entered into a coalition government with the Conservative Party. In Australia, the Liberal Party are the direct analogues of the US Republicans or the UK Conservatives – they’re economically liberal and socially very conservative. Explaining this to American conservatives tends to make their heads explode.

Conservatives are usually mad at the damned liberals, because the latter may, by sheer presence, threaten the equilibrium of the Universe, and therefore inadvertently bring forth dark forces from lower planes. In self-defence, any righteous conservatives therefore have to attack anything that even remotely might threaten the moral majority and their young innocent children from any deviation from The Truth.

Liberal
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Liberal
A liberal tends to champion individual rights and equality, although it depends on what measures are being taken to realize those rights. Due to this, liberalism can fall under many branches, some even self-contradictory; for instance, classical liberalism favors limiting government action to promote individual rights while social liberalism tends to favor government action to protect individuals. Unlike conservatism, its traditional political opposite, liberalism may be against the status quo, favoring changes to better society.
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June 25, 2014 4:54pm
wikiriwhis business

MPs set for perks boost

MPs are in line for another perks boost, with a review underway into their housing and family travel allowances.

The Remuneration Authority sent proposals to all MPs yesterday.

MPs can look forward to a $4000 increase in accommodation services to $28,000 a year. If they choose to stay in a Wellington hotel, they could claim $190 a night (up from $160) – to a maximum of $28,000 a year.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/10199138/MPs-set-for-perks-boost

I thought this would have been announced after the election. Someone in blue is feeling confident
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June 25, 2014 4:59pm
nasska

A conservative is a man who sits and thinks, mostly sits.

Woodrow Wilson 28th president of the USA.
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June 25, 2014 5:00pm
twofish

Cunliffe wouldn’t say if he would take action or lay a complaint with media regulatory bodies, but he wants “fair and equal treatment from those who reported erroneous figures to correct it”.

Deputy David Parker added: “We’ll expect to see some thorough reporting about some of the journalistic standards that have been shown by some of the media around this event.”

Thorough reporting on the reporting by some reporters?
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June 25, 2014 5:02pm
Nookin

Cunliffe’s admonition of the news media brings to mind how so very lucky we were that some very diligent MPs managed to see through the sneaky Margaret Wilson’s attempt to rein in the news media and make it an offence to make comment critical of an MP or candidate prior to an election. For some reason, it seems to me that Mr Cunliffe might be just the sort of person to try and resuscitate her fledgeling monster

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=228777
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June 25, 2014 5:19pm
dime

cricko – lol shes just gross. the smug look she always has bugs me too. it stems from her very low self esteem.
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June 25, 2014 5:28pm
Elaycee

Wikiwhizz: Someone in blue is feeling confident…

You do realise this proposal was made by the Remuneration Authority, don’t you?

No?

Thought not. 🙄
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June 25, 2014 6:05pm
stigie

Crikey Nasska, you just might get a rise with that comment ole chap !~
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June 25, 2014 6:05pm
stephieboy

Rational Wiki is a significant repository of wisdom , insight and discernment laying waste most conspiracy theories including not least the one in this link.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Obama_citizenship_denial

Very useful when especially when posters post outrageous claims whether of the economic doomsday variety, 9/11, so called “creation” science , vaccinations , fractional reserve banking , Masons , Jews etc, etc . These happen to be views shared by a coalition of largely far right wing nuts but not necessarily exclusively so.
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June 25, 2014 6:08pm
Longknives

Who or what is Moana Mackey??
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June 25, 2014 6:15pm
UglyTruth

Rational Wiki is a significant repository of wisdom , insight and discernment laying waste most conspiracy theories including not least the one in this link.

Too funny.

Tell us some more lies about there not being any evidence of molten steel at 9/11.
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June 25, 2014 6:16pm
Dom Knots

I hope the bastard that hacked the phone of Madeline McCaan’s mother gets put in the pedophile wing and then accidentally on purpose released into general public. Filth.
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June 25, 2014 6:17pm
Griff

Its just at good at poking fun at the moonbats of the left as it is for whacking the wing nuts of the right.
rational wiki defines the terms as
Moonbat

Moonbat is a snarl word referring to anyone who the speaker considers unreasonably far to the left, analogous to “wingnut.” The word’s definition has undergone a confusing bifurcation: conservatives use it to describe pretty much any moderates and liberals,[1] and liberals use it to refer to batshittery within their own camp — not just extreme left-wingers, but also cranks and conspiracy theorists.

Wingnut

Being a wingnut requires a particularly paranoid worldview, teetering on the edge of or falling wholesale into tinfoil hat territory, as wingnuttery causes the victim to refuse to accept any source of information that doesn’t back up their prejudices (essentially, wingnuts are almost always authoritarian as well as being politically right-wing). Constant gibbering about the “liberal media” as well as a slavish devotion to cognitive dissonance, conspiracy theories, global warming denialism, psychological projection, and crackpot theories of economics (i.e. Austrian school) are also, if not required, at the very least nearly universal symptoms. This is all usually accompanied by a side dish of a severe persecution complex. Not all wingnuts are racists or misogynists, though many racists and misogynists are also wingnuts.

UT being both a moonbat and a wingnut
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June 25, 2014 6:20pm
UglyTruth

Moonbat yes, wingnut no.

“Being a wingnut requires a particularly paranoid worldview” fail
“teetering on the edge of or falling wholesale into tinfoil hat territory” maybe
“refuse to accept any source of information that doesn’t back up their prejudices” fail
“authoritarian as well as being politically right-wing” total fail
“Constant gibbering about the “liberal media”” total fail
“as well as a slavish devotion to cognitive dissonance, conspiracy theories, global warming denialism” possibly
“psychological projection, and crackpot theories of economics (i.e. Austrian school)” not even close
“This is all usually accompanied by a side dish of a severe persecution complex.” yada yada yada
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June 25, 2014 6:30pm
nasska

https://www.dropbox.com/s/j3yy4lxkylnfzj8/UT%202.png
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June 25, 2014 6:37pm
stephieboy

“Tell us some more lies about there not being any evidence of molten steel at 9/11.” ???

Molten metal not steel oh fatuous one.!,

https://sites.google.com/site/wtc7lies/canofficefirescauselargesteelcolumnsandb

But I’ll leave it to the more saner posters to judge for themselves and you can continue to busy yourself finding the 200 missing passengers and crews, and that ever elusive whistleblower or blowers.
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June 25, 2014 6:42pm
UglyTruth

Molten metal not steel oh fatuous one

You fail, liar
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June 25, 2014 6:50pm
twofish

In a ONE NEWS item on Liu donations to Labour, Cunnliffe wants an apology from Liu who is now portrayed as The Bad Man, and for some reason in the rest of the item is shown in photos with the Prime Minister John Key, who actually has nothing to do with this item, but is associated here with The Bad Guy.
Cunliffe is also whining about poor journalism, and seeing how TVNZ is smearing John Key in an item that does not mention him, I tend to agree.

Be nice to have an impartial public service television in the run-up to an Election – but that would be fucking hopeful beyond reason wouldn’t it?
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June 25, 2014 6:56pm
UglyTruth

From stevieboy’s link:

“Infrared spectrometer readings taken shortly after the collapses showed temperatures near the surface of the piles of up to 1375 F: hot enough to melt aluminum.”
This was 5 days later, not “shortly after the collapses”. And it had been raining.

“The presence of molten metals is not an indication of planned demolition work.”
Actually it is, since it is possible to demolish buildings with micro-nukes.

“Explosives do not produce pools of molten metal”
Wrong. Nuclear explosives produce a thermal pulse with more than enough energy to melt steel.
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June 25, 2014 7:08pm
Colville

UT. Do you have any proof of the molten steel thing?
Steel not metal, tests and all that? ya know?
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June 25, 2014 7:14pm
Dom Knots

Oh boy. It isn’t bad enough that israel is contravening international law with its illegal settlements in the occupied territories – now we have representatives of that wonderful state ripping off 85 year old ladies in new zealand shopping malls for 5k worth of skin care products. Do these people ever stop their immorality.
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June 25, 2014 7:16pm
dad4justice

Oh look it’s Dim Nuts, Jew bashing again. Yawn, yawn….
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June 25, 2014 7:17pm
goldnkiwi

Obviously a matter of principle, is he hoping that they let him out early due to his stance?

I hope that he does not do himself irreparable damage (if he doesn’t die) between now and his release date… 5 weeks.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/10198056/Starving-inmate-prepared-to-die
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June 25, 2014 7:22pm
UglyTruth

UT. Do you have any proof of the molten steel thing?

Multiple witness reported seeing molten steel.
A sample of steel fused with concrete was recovered from the pile.
There’s a photo of a excavator pulling part of a steel beam from the wreckage, the bean has molten metal dripping off it.
There were surface hotspots of up to 747 degrees C five days after the event.

http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/evidence/moltensteel.html
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June 25, 2014 7:25pm
big bruv

Dom

That would almost be the dumbest comment I have ever seen on this site.
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June 25, 2014 7:27pm
Dom Knots

lol – there it is. mention contravention of international law and theft from the elderly by israeli’s and you’re an anti semite!
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June 25, 2014 7:31pm
Colville

UT, in short you dont have proof

You cant see “steel” A big puddle of shiney melted metal isnt “steel”

I was in the building game for 20 years, there is shit loads of alum in a building, fuck all steel. Alum melts in a campfire. Steel wont even get red.
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June 25, 2014 7:34pm
Colville

Dom is kinda right. The wankers that hawk over priced skincare are an Israeli rort that come here and flog stuff off using “student” visas and then carry cash back home and dont declare income or pay tax.
Cnuts.
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June 25, 2014 7:36pm
Colville

UT.

BTW. I was an ASME IX ticketed welder for about 10 years, I know what steel looks like. 🙂
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June 25, 2014 7:38pm
UglyTruth

You cant see “steel” A big puddle of shiney melted metal isnt “steel”

You can see the shape of a steel I-beam. If bits are dripping off the end of it, then there are very good odds you’re looking at molten steel.

I was in the building game for 20 years, there is shit loads of alum in a building, fuck all steel. Alum melts in a campfire. Steel wont even get red.

The twin towers had significant amounts of steel in the cores, they were not your average building. The presence of molten steel at 9/11 is significant because the impact fires did not burn hot enough to melt steel, the energy had to come from somewhere else, eg high energy explosives.

I was an ASME IX ticketed welder for about 10 years, I know what steel looks like.

Did you ever see steel melt?
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June 25, 2014 7:54pm
Colville

UT.

Do you know what welding is?
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June 25, 2014 7:58pm
UglyTruth

Yes. I mean did you ever see a large chunk of steel melt?
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June 25, 2014 8:02pm
Griff

Aluminum cans can be burnt in a good camp fire.
A large fire the size of the twin towers the basements full of cars the fit outs of thousands of offices etc is going to get very hot in the center and will remain so for weeks.
It would not be surprising if rivers of molten aluminum and other alloys are present.

As to nukes thermite bombs and controlled demolition
😆

To complicated to organize. the yanks can not even manage a simple contain and disarm like wakp chance of them puling of the twin towers without either a massive fuckup or whistle blowers screaming blue murder = 0.

Then there is the question why ?
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June 25, 2014 8:03pm
UglyTruth

To complicated to organize. the yanks can not even manage a simple contain and disarm

Who said the yanks did it? 9/11 has Mossad written all over it.
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June 25, 2014 8:06pm
twofish

Osama Bin Laden, if he hadn’t been involved, would have done everything he could have, to reveal the Americans had done it to themselves –
undeniable evidence of that would do more to his aims of destroying the USA than his part in taking out a few buildings
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June 25, 2014 8:10pm
nasska

A recent revelation has shed new light on the 9/11 attacks.

Two Irish joiners were working in the Twin Towers that day fitting new doors. A witness overheard one saying, “Paddy, get a plane and take a bit off the top.”
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June 25, 2014 8:10pm
Colville

Office partitioning is quite often all alum. Lots of heat all the combustible stuff burns off, alum hits the concrete and runs like water.

For steel to be runny liquid it needs to be 3000 degrees ++ IIRC.
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June 25, 2014 8:11pm
Colville

UT
The only times I saw really big bits of steel melt were when I had fucked things up badly. 😉

Usually I was watching a very small bright light go around a pipe . at 6000 degrees.
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June 25, 2014 8:13pm
nasska

Not oil pipelines Colville?
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June 25, 2014 8:15pm
Dom Knots

ahahaha naaska
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June 25, 2014 8:16pm
UglyTruth

For steel to be runny liquid it needs to be 3000 degrees ++ IIRC.

No problem for a micronuke.

https://donaldfox.wordpress.com/tag/strontium/

Barium and Strontium are rare Trace elements with limited industrial uses. The enormous peak in Barium and Strontium concentration at WTC01-16 is readily apparent in the chart at right. The concentration of the two elements reaches 3130ppm for Strontium and 3670ppm for Barium or over 0.3% by weight of the dust. This means that 0.37% of the sample was Barium and 0.31% of the sample was Strontium by weight at that location, WTC01-16, Broadway and John Streets. The Mean concentration for Barium including the very low girder coating samples is 533ppm and for Strontium it’s 727ppm. These are not Trace amounts. They are highly dangerous and extremely toxic amounts. They are also critical components of nuclear fission and the decay process.
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June 25, 2014 8:21pm
UglyTruth

The only times I saw really big bits of steel melt were when I had fucked things up badly.

Did it look anything like this photo?

https://www.metabunk.org/metamirror_cache/algoxy.com_psych_images2_moltensteelenclose5mt.jpg
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June 25, 2014 8:30pm
Colville

nasska.

No oil. Steam and amonia. ASME used to be a high ticket but its everyday now. API 1104 for doing LPG.
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June 25, 2014 8:38pm
Griff

Fuck ut
Think of the frogs getting caught here in nz after the rainbow bombing
Our sis found out where they stayed where they traveled Even were they had meetings etc. We have caught mossad using nz as well
That’s our local yokel spys the yanks have far more resources then we could ever dream of. They also have 17 separate intelligence agency’s plus the police with the resources and ability to discover a conspiracy of the size required. If say the cia was responsible there is !6 others At least some of them looked into 9/11 guaranteed if any thing was fishy it would have come out from one of them by now.
mossad would have been caught
To many people needed to do the job in a controlled way to much chance involved to even consider as a false flag exercise.
Occums razor
Once a plane is in the air its simple to fly it ..even a big jet. Terrorist with basic flying skills easy could have taken control and flown badly into a large building.
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June 25, 2014 8:42pm
OneTrack

Manolo – ““This combined with our capital gains tax will allow the Labour-led Government to run surpluses and pay down National’s record debt by the end of our second term,” David Cunliffe says.”

Mr Cunliffe, how much revenue is the country actually going to make from these two steps, year on year. Have you actually worked it out, or hasn’t the treasury person brought the calculator back, and that is just one of the many details you will “work out later” (once his feet are under the treasury benches and it is too late).

This just sounds like a policy of envy, to get the “rich pricks”. Too bad if it doesn’t actually make any difference.

And will your coalition partners be happy with that amount, or will there be “changes” following the “negotiations” – and then Russel tells you what the policy is actually going to be.
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June 25, 2014 8:44pm
Reid

Once a plane is in the air its simple to fly it ..even a big jet. Terrorist with basic flying skills easy could have taken control and flown badly into a large building.

Sounds simple, but it’s not. Many videos and sites are on the interweb from real actual airline pilots with thousands of hours of experience telling you what they did, with their training, is impossible. There is even video of real pilots trying to replicate it on simulators, and they can’t. High speed airline flight is not easy and all those planes were at close to full throttle and even REAL pilots couldn’t replicate it.

Of course, in order to find those people saying those things and actually be able to listen to what they are telling you, first of all you have to be open to the possibility that you don’t actually already know what the answer is, because unless you do that, you’ll never listen to even 50,000,000,000,000 airline pilots all telling you the same thing, because YOU think you already know.

And same applies to the hundreds of details on that day, all of which have the exact same fishiness as those planes. And people whoi think they already know, don’t even know what those details are, but they’ll willing to let the biggest geopolitrical issue ever, just slide away.
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June 25, 2014 8:51pm
big bruv

If you want to watch some classic filibustering then tune into Parliament TV. While this is a terrible waste of time and money I have to admit that I am enjoying it.

All those who sat and watched the scum Labour MP’s filibuster in an attempt to stop the voluntary student membership will know what I am talking about.
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June 25, 2014 9:01pm
UglyTruth

the yanks have far more resources then we could ever dream of. They also have 17 separate intelligence agency’s plus the police with the resources and ability to discover a conspiracy of the size required.

Sure. The US agencies where part of the coverup – look at how FBI contractor Sibel Edmonds was silenced with gag orders and how the 9/11 Commission report people said that they were being lied to about what happened.

If say the cia was responsible there is !6 others At least some of them looked into 9/11 guaranteed if any thing was fishy it would have come out from one of them by now.

Whistleblowers? Try these guys.

http://www.corbettreport.com/articles/20100305_911_whistleblowers.htm

mossad would have been caught

So what? When the US stops supporting the Zionists they can kiss their economy goodbye.

To many people needed to do the job in a controlled way to much chance involved to even consider as a false flag exercise.

Rubbish, just run exercises concurrently and most of the work is done by people who believe that they are doing the right thing.

Occums razor

Occam’s razor says that exercises which mirror the actual terrorism are related events.

Once a plane is in the air its simple to fly it ..even a big jet. Terrorist with basic flying skills easy could have taken control and flown badly into a large building.

No according to a pilot who flew those planes.

http://wtfrly.com/2013/08/19/911truth-wtfact-24-the-impossible-pentagon-turn-expert-pilots-cant-execute/
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June 25, 2014 9:03pm
Griff

Well ried we have videos and thousand of eyewitness accounts of planes hitting the buildings
all false every one. 😆 imposable to fly a plane into a building you say. even harder to do it by remoter then

If it was imposable the conspiracy includes thousands of newyorkers who witnessed the planes impacts.
or
Remote controlled planes
Even more people to whistle blow more technology to develop and fail as well as the hundred or so needed to set the bombs and where the fuck did they get them from? Minny nukes are not common More people more chance of discovery a host of army QMs and paper work are not easy to get past without laying a trail especially with nukes. then their is the planes airlines dont let you play with their puppys. ground crews airport staff etc.
bigger and bigger conspirwackys……
.
.
.
or simple terrorist action from the Arabs
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June 25, 2014 9:10pm
RichardX

Reid (15,818 comments) says:
June 25th, 2014 at 8:51 pm
Once a plane is in the air its simple to fly it ..even a big jet. Terrorist with basic flying skills easy could have taken control and flown badly into a large building.
Sounds simple, but it’s not. Many videos and sites are on the interweb from real actual airline pilots with thousands of hours of experience telling you what they did, with their training, is impossible. There is even video of real pilots trying to replicate it on simulators, and they can’t. High speed airline flight is not easy and all those planes were at close to full throttle and even REAL pilots couldn’t replicate it.
Of course, in order to find those people saying those things and actually be able to listen to what they are telling you, first of all you have to be open to the possibility that you don’t actually already know what the answer is, because unless you do that, you’ll never listen to even 50,000,000,000,000 airline pilots all telling you the same thing, because YOU think you already know.

I have personally put the question to 7 current or ex airline pilots by showing them one of the YouTube clips you had posted earlier. All of them disagreed with the conclusions reached in the video
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June 25, 2014 9:23pm
EAD

@ Reid 8.51pm – you make an excellent point about people not even wanting to go down the road of looking into 9/11 because to do so, would shatter their world view about everything they believe and people they are supposed to trust.

In our society, trust is a vice. As children, we trust in our parents. When we mature, we still want to trust. Trust is an addictive, satisfying, mind-numbing drug. We’re taught to trust in God, in our wives, in our families, in government, in our courts, in our police and in the heroes who have fought and which will fight for us. But that trust is destructive to us. When we give that trust, it takes our power. That power corrupts them, while addicting and mind-numbing ourselves.

When we come to the realization that we can’t simply trust what we’ve always trusted, or want to trust, but must instead constantly consider even the people we care about to be trustworthy or not trustworthy based upon their actions and what they do towards us, it makes one’s internal world become a little dimmer I think, but that is reality.

Anybody who applies some critical thinking knows 9-11 did not occur the way and for the reasons the Media would have us believe – whoever bought down the twin towers did not do it “because they hate Americas freedoms”. Some of the stuff I see on here regarding 9/11 is crazy stuff (mini-nukes??) but engineering and physics aside, it is worth looking at the CONSEQUENCES of the 9/11 attacks.

The immediate consequences were the Patriot Act and the Iraq War – 9/11 was designed to advance a police state, destroy civil liberties and justify endless war (i.e. the war on terror which has no end) of that which I have no doubt. Just think back to what happened immediately after 9/11, the minute before there was any assessment, the war drums were beating for an invasion of Iraq to remove Saddam Hussein who had nothing to do with bringing down the towers. Look at the Patriot Act – the most far-reaching piece of legislation in terms of concentration of executive power and removal of civil liberties ever in Western Nation – a 363 page law that was submitted to Congress by the Bush Administration on September 24th…………just 13 days later.
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June 25, 2014 9:32pm
stephieboy

UT, Whiistleblowers.????

Another instructive example about the dishonesty and deceptive methods Truthers use to try to put their case.
Apart from that Corbett says very little of substance in the way of real whistleblowers coming forward e.g those commanding the rescue operations , NIST officials or staff,FBI, Armed services etc, etc

Thus UT old fruit we’re back to square one on that score.

The impossibility of flying the planes in the manner on 9/11 is rebutted by licensed Avionic engineer for Boeing ,

http://911blogger.com/node/20232

Also this from a veteran Italian Airforce and airline pilot,

http://www.911myths.com/Another_Expert.pdf

Also some common misconceptions about the airline crashes on 9/11,

http://www.askthepilot.com/questionanswers/conspiracy-nation/
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June 25, 2014 10:28pm
stephieboy

An omission. How Lee Hamilton of the 9/11 Commission was quote mined and what he actually said . As i said the low level dishonesty and deception that the likes of the Corbett report and Truthers practice,

http://other.skepticproject.com/articles/quotes/view/27/911-commission-member-said-commission-was-setup-t/
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June 25, 2014 10:46pm
Gulag1917

Judith (6,795 comments) says:
June 25th, 2014 at 4:05 pm
@ dime (9,153 comments) says:
June 25th, 2014 at 2:39 pm

“I was thinking the same thing. Why is it that so many staunchly religious people, seem so obsessed with sex and any sort of sexual acts?”

Still waiting for an example.
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June 26, 2014 12:28am
Manolo

This explains why stephieboy is so in love with him: http://dailycaller.com/2014/06/23/obama-women-vote-democrat-because-they-are-smarter/
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June 26, 2014 6:37am
Harriet

“I was thinking the same thing. Why is it that so many staunchly religious people, seem so obsessed with sex and any sort of sexual acts?”

Because it can spread disease, lead to abortion pitting mothers against their children, depression, agony, suicide.

What were you thinking Gulag?
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June 26, 2014 7:24am
ShawnLH

“I was thinking the same thing. Why is it that so many staunchly religious people, seem so obsessed with sex and any sort of sexual acts?”

Well, the answer is we are not obsessed at all. We simply have opinions as to the nature and purpose of sex, as all people do.

In a nutshell, we believe that sex is both a gift from God, and a sacred act that has great spiritual power. Sex makes a man and a women one flesh, one being, one person. And it is because of this sacred nature and power that, like all things of power, it can be misused and abused. And when it is misused and abused it leads to great evil. Rape, child abuse, sex as manipulation of others, or as a power trip, or reduced to merely selfish pleasure.

So, we believe that God in His wisdom set boundaries around sex to minimize the potential for misuse and abuse. And when societies and cultures throw away those boundaries, it is never a good thing, and leads to evils and suffering.
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June 26, 2014 8:01am
ShawnLH

“Who said the yanks did it? 9/11 has Mossad written all over it.”

Translation: The evil Jews did it.

UT is just using, and twisting, 911 as an excuse for his hatred towards Jews.

Nothing to see here folks, just the usual racist bigotry from UT and Reid.
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June 26, 2014 8:04am
Gulag1917

Harriet
People make all kinds of rash slanders about people of all descriptions without any proof.
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June 26, 2014 8:09am
ShawnLH

Ryan,

“That’s the first time I’ve heard Rational Wiki described as Conservative.”

It’s not. I was just making fun of Griff’s (and others) tendency to dismiss any contrary view as coming from a conservative web site, and therefore supposedly invalid.
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June 26, 2014 8:26am
Gulag1917

The emotional rather than the logical ones at work.
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June 26, 2014 8:26am
Griff

http://conservativebyte
conservative site
http://social-conservatism.blogspot
again
ironshrink
conservative head doctor
http://www.slate.com
conservative site again

yip shawn goes to conservative sites to debunk science alright.
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June 26, 2014 8:40am
ShawnLH

Except Griff your claims were not science. As I proved, the basis for the IQ claim is bogus, based on methodologically biased assumptions, and did not even use a valid IQ test!

The original study was made by a guy who also “proved” that Africans are stupid, by using a geographic model that assumed a flat earth!

Sticking the science label on your claims does not make it so. It’s just a cover for your purely subjective opinions, and in this case the claim about IQ has been well and truly sunk.
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June 26, 2014 8:52am
UglyTruth

Translation: The evil Jews did it.

That’s your prejudice at work, not mine ShawnLH.

The only people arrested on the same day in connection with the terrorist attacks of September 11 were Israelis. Two of them were Mossad agents.

http://www.voltairenet.org/article179295.html
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June 26, 2014 8:57am
Judith

Good to see the ANZAC poppy return to New Zealand. Some things have meaning beyond making a quick buck. 🙂

http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/anzac-poppy-returns-home-christchurch-6012604
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June 26, 2014 8:58am
Judith

@ Gulag1917 (505 comments) says:
June 26th, 2014 at 12:28 am

Good Lord Gulag, for a start I don’t know what you mean by still waiting? Are you under some sort of impression that people should wait around all day to see if you have any questions for them?

Secondly, I could give you heaps of names of the religious people I know that are always raving on about the sexual indiscretions of others, and society, but unless you know them it would mean diddly squat wouldn’t it? But just take a read over some of the religious based discussions on here – sooner or later sex always comes into it, but somehow, doing the dishes, an action that probably features more in most households, is virtually never raised. 🙂
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June 26, 2014 9:02am
ShawnLH

Judith,

“sooner or later sex always comes into it,”

For the reasons I gave above.

“but somehow, doing the dishes, an action that probably features more in most households”

Well, duh, of course not. Doing dishes is a good thing, but it’s hardly up there with the nature of sex and marriage as an important question.
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June 26, 2014 9:07am
mikenmild

Doesn’t your church have commandments about who should do the dishes? Surely there’s something in Leviticus?
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June 26, 2014 9:14am
ShawnLH

By the way Griff, one of the links you gave was from the psych dept at a liberal university.

If I posted studies from an NZ university about the effects of colonization on Maori you would dismiss them out of hand as PC academics.

Your double standards are showing.

The other link did not say what you claimed anyway.

“Are Liberals More Educated Than Conservatives?”

Turns out, no.

A breakdown of educational levels between Democrat and Republican voters.

http://reflectionsofarationalrepublican.com/2012/01/14/are-liberals-more-educated-than-conservatives/
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June 26, 2014 9:20am
Judith

ShawnLH (2,665 comments) says:
June 26th, 2014 at 9:07 am

Well, duh, of course not. Doing dishes is a good thing, but it’s hardly up there with the nature of sex and marriage as an important question.

REALLY Shawn?

You may have sex only once a year, and the family will remain healthy. You try doing the dishes only once a year and see how the family’s health is. That is exactly the problem – religious people tend to focus on the things they’d like to believe are more valuable to discuss, but they aren’t more valuable in the bigger picture.

Work on the basics, and the rest will fall into order.
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June 26, 2014 9:20am
UglyTruth

Anybody who applies some critical thinking knows 9-11 did not occur the way and for the reasons the Media would have us believe – whoever bought down the twin towers did not do it “because they hate Americas freedoms”. Some of the stuff I see on here regarding 9/11 is crazy stuff (mini-nukes??)

Which is crazier, saying that micronukes were the source of the energy which melted the steel, or saying that the laws of physics weren’t working that day?

There is no known mechanism by which the energy sources in the MSM account: (jet fuel, office combustibles, and gravitational energy) can result in temperatures high enough to melt steel.

Multiple witnesses reported seeing molten steel, a sample of concrete fused with steel was recovered, and a photo was taken of what appeared to be a short section of steel I-beam with yellow-orange material falling off it.

The presence of high levels of Barium and Strontium in water samples from 9/11 suggest that a nuclear explosion occurred there.
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June 26, 2014 9:22am
ShawnLH

“REALLY Shawn?”

Lol, I really should be saying that to you.

REALLY?

Sure, if you don’t do the dishes that’s bad. But is that up there with rape, sexual slavery, and child abuse? REALLY Judith?

Christians and conservatives focus on things that are important to society.

I don’t think anyone in their right mind thinks dirty dishes are more important than rape as a social issue.

The comparison is laughable.
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June 26, 2014 9:25am
ShawnLH

“Which is crazier, saying that micronukes were the source of the energy which melted the steel, or saying that the laws of physics weren’t working that day?”

Both are crazy as neither is true.

On the other hand I saw the second plane hit the towers live on BBC, and we have plenty of video showing two airliners flying into the towers, piloted by Islamic terrorists.

So between a silly conspiracy theory favored by Jew haters, or what anyone can see with their own eyes, I’ll stick with the facts.
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June 26, 2014 9:27am
Judith

@ ShawnLH (2,667 comments) says:
June 26th, 2014 at 9:25 am

But I didn’t specify rape, did I Shawn? I said sex – of which rape may be part of but not the entire picture. Religious discussions just about always come back to sex, of all sorts, you lot just can’t seem to get it off your minds. Either you’re telling someone who they should do it with, how they should or shouldn’t do it, or promoting it to have more children in the world.

The fact is Shawn, if people concentrated a little more on the basics of life in their own homes, and less worrying about telling the rest of us what we should be doing, perhaps rape etc might not occur as much as it does. Several of the rapists I’ve dealt with in my professional life have come from homes where religious instruction and confusion became a contributing factor towards their defiant behaviour.

Anyway, I’m not playing your stupid games and getting into a discussion with you, because from what I’ve witnessed about those you have with others, you’re completely cuckoo – god certainly wasn’t concentrating on the recipe when he made you!! 🙂
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June 26, 2014 9:32am
UglyTruth

“Which is crazier, saying that micronukes were the source of the energy which melted the steel, or saying that the laws of physics weren’t working that day?”

Both are crazy as neither is true.

Do you have an explanation for the molten steel, or are you just lying again, Shawn?
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June 26, 2014 9:36am
Griff

There are three links in my original post shawn.
The discussion is about liberal / conservative not democrat / republican party voters in the usa.
As to a simple test as a proxy for iq
you can usually tell within minutes of meeting someone if their iq is low or high
A few simple questions will give an appropriation of cognitive ability.
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June 26, 2014 9:37am
ciaron

If there was a “mini-nuke” that put out enough energy to bring down a big building, would we expect to see an increase in cancer/ radiation poisoning amongst those in the vicinity that day? and if that is a fair assumption, is there evidence that this is the case?
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June 26, 2014 9:45am
UglyTruth

Ciaron, yes.

More than 1,100 have cancer after 9/11
http://edition.cnn.com/2013/09/11/health/911-cancer-treatment/

One of the biggest medical cover-ups in history was exposed this week when Wall Street brokers suffering from cancer after 9/11 made the news. While telling their story, the New York Post revealed that 70,000 New Yorkers have applied for 9/11 victim compensation, most for cancers that can only be attributed to direct exposure to ionizing radiation from nuclear weapons.
http://www.presstv.com/detail/2014/04/21/359423/nuke-cancer-from-911-revealed/
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June 26, 2014 9:53am
ciaron

ok, why should I accept presstv as an authority?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Press_TV

The CNN article seems much more sensible and has no mention of “mini”, “nukes” or “nuclear”…
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June 26, 2014 10:01am
UglyTruth

Why should you accept Wikipedia as an authority?

The high incidence of cancers is only one of several lines of evidence that point to nuclear devices being used. What gives it away is the energy signature – the persistent heat, the high energy necessary to break up the concrete into fine particulates, the flash burns suffered by Felipe David, the disappearance of a 50 ton press, 22 ton exterior sections ejected laterally 200 meters etc.
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June 26, 2014 10:13am

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