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June 17, 2014 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 17 June 2014

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flipper

Interesting Herald poll result.
Does not follow the Labour/red melon/MSM narrative.

And Labour/Greens and their fellow travellers the Herald, in a rare sensible observation, notes that for them, there is disturbing similarity to the TV One, TV3 (omits to mention Fairfax) polls.
Oh dear.
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June 17, 2014 8:04am
hj

Housing bubble bursting in Houston
http://blog.chron.com/primeproperty/2014/06/three-year-housing-streak-ends/
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June 17, 2014 8:08am
Harriet

Morning all.

“……..LOPEZ: So, fathers play a role in fostering a safer social environment?

WILCOX: Yes, both at the individual and neighborhood level, dads seem to help create a safer social environment. Indeed, Harvard sociologist Robert Sampson has found that one of the better predictors of violence at the neighborhood level is the presence of large numbers of fatherless homes. He observed, “Family structure is one of the strongest, if not the strongest, predictor of variations in urban violence across cities in the United States.”…….”

LOPEZ: This Father’s Day, is there a gift that will help a dad most with his father’s brain and body?

WILCOX: A simple and sincere “thank you” from his family is all that many dads want this Father’s Day, I would say. It matters a lot for dads, especially in a society where fathers are often belittled or minimized in the popular culture, to have their sacrifices and love recognized and appreciated….”

😎 The feminists are the biggest fucken gang in South Auckland! 😎

…….the dept of Women’s Affairs is getting really fucken expensive National!! 😎

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/380358/transformative-power-fatherhood-interview

It’s well worth the 5 minute read. Very timely too. In more ways than one.
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June 17, 2014 8:09am
hj

Liz Farmer and Kevin Tidmarsh share news of a study in the Public Administration Review finding that higher instances of corruption correlate with more spending in the policy areas more likely to line the pockets of corrupt officials.

The study finds that more corrupt states spend more money on construction, highways and police protections and less on health, education and other public services.
http://www.governing.com/topics/politics/gov-corruption-politics-spending-study.html
“you can’t just expect that if you need an operation you’ll get it done ” Tony Ryal on Sunday TV One.

” There is a danger that a sector of the economy is being augmented that is totally reliant on a
small domestic economy. Not only do these industries have limited potential for per-capita
growth but ‘deriving growth via factor inputs such as labour places pressure on infrastructure
such as transport and land supply, and ultimately have a further negative impact on growth
(ARC 2005). Finally, as the sector gets larger, it gains in lobbying/political strength and can
lobby for immigration regardless if it is the best interests of the economy as a whole. This
could be seen in Canada where the development industry has lobbied hard for high sustained
immigration levels (Ley and Tutchener 2001). ”
Dr Greg Clydesdale
Growing Pains
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June 17, 2014 8:14am
Grant

Very disturbing images coming out of Iraq overnight. Who ever thought social media would be used to such purposes?

Also, imagine what this ISIS mob could do if they got hold of some serious firepower such as gunships etc and had the ability to operate them.
I think we will regret it if this lot aren’t mercilessly crushed as soon as possible.

Discuss
G

Edit: Typo, and thanks to Ryan S.
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June 17, 2014 8:24am
Ryan Sproull

Grant,

Or Iraq?
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June 17, 2014 8:26am
hj

National Geographic Redraws Map due to shrinking Artic Ice.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2014/06/140609-arctic-ice-maps-atlas-tenth-edition-science/?_ga=1.24231352.381754480.1399785593
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June 17, 2014 8:27am
Grant

Quite so Ryan.
Thanks
G
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June 17, 2014 8:29am
Neil

Once again, these polls should be looked at topgether as a trend.
The trend for three years has been National but at times the left have moved closer.
To me it seems that two things will be decisive.
a.Will Winston First get 5% ? My gutg feeling is that he will fail, I think the novelty of the old bodgie dragging up some issue will not succeed. If they don’t get the 5% look for National to have an easier row.
b. If Kelvin Davis can win Tai Tokerau over Hone then M-I will fail to fire. National/Maori should vote for Kelvin Davis strategically.
Will National still I get over the 50% ? Probably not but if they get close to that mark and Winston doesn’t fire they should make it.
National’s campaign will be crucial in keeping voters informed and satisfied.
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June 17, 2014 8:30am
kowtow

The joys of “diversity ” and multiculturalism.Britain bans forced marriage.

http://www.thestandard.com.hk/breaking_news_detail.asp?id=50734&icid=4&d_str=20140617
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June 17, 2014 8:30am
UglyTruth

Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki has accused neighboring Saudi Arabia of supporting terrorist groups operating inside his country.

“The current terrorism originates from Saudi Arabia,” Maliki said in a recent interview.

The Iraqi premier also blamed the country along with Qatar and Turkey for sponsoring terrorism in Syria.

http://www.presstv.com/detail/2014/01/27/348000/ksa-behind-terrorism-in-iraq-maliki/
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June 17, 2014 8:40am
Keeping Stock

@ Neil – David Cunliffe has neutralised Peters on immigration. Peters can no longer get headlines for a xenophobic, anti-Asian immigration policy when Labour is saying much the same thing.
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June 17, 2014 8:41am
Manolo

UT, do you feel seeing your fellow brothers., all peaceful followers of Islam, fighting each other?
Is that what your leader, the paedophile prophet, preached?
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June 17, 2014 8:44am
Elaycee

New Zealand 217/9 (73.1 overs) v West Indies

Normal service resumes?
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June 17, 2014 8:45am
hj

Keeping Stock (9,984 comments) says:

Peters can no longer get headlines for a xenophobic, anti-Asian immigration policy when Labour is saying much the same thing.

………
For one thing Cunliffe is equivocal on immigration. He hasn’t nailed any message home (as far as I’m aware).
Second point: What’s your evidence that objection to immigration is xenophobic (as opposed to rational and sensible)??

TV3 found that 62.4% want restrictions on immigration.
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June 17, 2014 8:48am
UglyTruth

Hypocrite much, Manolo?

An investigation by the Today Programme has uncovered new evidence that Cardinal Cormac Murphy O’Connor the leader of the Catholic Church in England and Wales failed to act appropriately when dealing with paedophile priests in his former diocese of Arundel and Brighton.

The Cardinal is currently the subject of a police inquiry over claims that he covered up the activities of one paedophile priest – Father Michael Hill. Yesterday Hill admitted abusing more children – some of them disabled.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/today/reports/archive/features/paedophile_priests.shtml
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June 17, 2014 8:49am
thedavincimode

The 3% increase in cunners popularity in this latest digi-poll is a sure sign that non-labour poll respondents have twigged to the fact that their agendas are best served by keeping him in the job.
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June 17, 2014 8:50am
alloytoo

@hj

Did you read the article?

Sales decreased due to lack of inventory, that’s the very opposite of a bubble.
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June 17, 2014 8:51am
hj

New Zealand immigration policy settings are based on the assumption that the
macroeconomic impacts of immigration may be significantly positive, with at worst small
negative effects. However, both large positive and large negative effects are possible.
Reviewing the literature, the balance of evidence suggests that while past immigration
has, at times, had significant net benefits, over the past couple of decades the positive
effects of immigration on per capita growth, productivity, fiscal balance and mitigating
population ageing are likely to have been modest. There is also some evidence that
immigration, together with other forms of population growth, has exacerbated pressures
on New Zealand’s insufficiently-responsive housing market. Meeting the infrastructure
needs of immigrants in an economy with a quite modest rate of national saving may also
have diverted resources from productive tradable activities, with negative macroeconomic
impacts. Therefore from a macroeconomic perspective, a least regrets approach suggests
that immigration policy should be more closely tailored to the economy’s ability to adjust to
population increase. At a minimum, this emphasises the importance of improving the
economy’s ability to respond to population increase. If this cannot be achieved, there may
be merit in considering a reduced immigration target as a tool for easing macroeconomic
pressures. More work is required to assess the potential net benefits of an increase in
immigration as part of a strategy to pursue scale and agglomeration effects through
increased population, or whether a decrease in immigration could facilitate lower interest
rates, a lower exchange rate, and more balanced growth going forward.

http://www.treasury.govt.nz/publications/research-policy/wp/2014/14-10
Migration and Macroeconomic
Performance in New Zealand:
Theory and Evidence
Julie Fry
New Zealand Treasury Working Paper 14/10 David Parker quoted this paper to Blinglish. Blinglish threw his copy in the skip.
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June 17, 2014 8:54am
Simon

ISIS sweeping across Iraq is the same as the Germans sweeping across the Ukraine in 1941. Burning, looting and killing civilians. Didn’t work for the Germans wont work for ISIS.

ISIS have won nothing unless they win the local population and they are achieving the exact opposite.
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June 17, 2014 8:59am
kowtow

While so called world leaders and an actress at a London conference were calling for the end of sexual violence against wimmin half of iraq was captured by Muslim loons and led to shocking atrocities against prisoners…….but that’s OK cos they ain’t wimmin.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2658858/ISIS-jihadists-tighten-grip-Iraq-capture-Tal-Afar-UN-hits-deeply-disturbing-soldier-massacre-pictures-shocking-world.html#comments
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June 17, 2014 8:59am
hj

alloytoo (397 comments) says:
June 17th, 2014 at 8:51 am

@hj

Did you read the article?
..
I read the article then the comments.
It seems prices have been rising for the last 3 years?
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June 17, 2014 9:01am
ShawnLH

“What’s your evidence that objection to immigration is xenophobic (as opposed to rational and sensible)??”

Well total objection to all immigration would likely be xenophobic, as there is no rational or sensible objection to all immigration.
Immigration is really not an either/or proposition in the way your saying here at least. A better way to frame it would be to ask how much immigration is sustainable. On it’s own that is a reasonable question.

“TV3 found that 62.4% want restrictions on immigration.”

Not being a sheep I don’t really care what percentage of the population thinks what. But I find this result dubious because we already DO have regulated immigration with restrictions, not open slather. So what does the poll result actually mean and how was the question framed if people effectively said they want what we already have?
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June 17, 2014 9:03am
James Stephenson

What’s your evidence that objection to immigration is xenophobic (as opposed to rational and sensible)??

Chinese immigration, investment, property buying: Outrage “it’s terrible, something must be done, Kiwis are losing their birthright!”

White, English-speaking immigration, investment, property buying: silence.
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June 17, 2014 9:06am
kowtow

Simon .It’s not just ISIS. This appears to be a Sunni uprising .Already Fallujah was in the hands of rebel Sunnis as Al Maliki has been doing a good job of failing to include Sunnis in his administration. A lot of the rebels are also said to be the Sunni officer corps who lost their jobs through de Baathification.

It is possible that the Sunnis could now hold what they have ,like the Kurds have done, and we will see Iraq becoming what should have been done after WW1 ,divided into its 3 main parts.

Course it won’t be that neat. There are too many regional interests interfering .Iran,Turkey, Qatar,Saudi and of course the US.Then there’s Syria which provided the impetus for this current offensive.
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June 17, 2014 9:07am
UglyTruth

ISIS have won nothing unless they win the local population and they are achieving the exact opposite.

They’re not doing it out of the goodness of their hearts.

Abu Ayman al-Iraqi
Al Iraqi also known as Abu Muhammad al Suweidawi, is one of the key leaders of ISIL and member of the military council of the organization. Before turning to integrate ISIL served as a colonel in the intelligence service of the Air Force in Iraq during the rule of Saddam Hussein.

Abu Ahmad al Alwani
Al Alwani, whose real name is Waleed Jassem al Alwani, a member of the Army of Saddam Hussein, but now part of the military council of ISIL.

http://syrianfreepress.wordpress.com/2014/02/16/revealed-the-identities-of-the-leaders-of-the-islamic-state-of-iraq-and-the-levant/

“al-Hayat” newspaper has mentioned that those, who were accused in various terrorist cases, have been released by Saudi authorities on bail, to al-Qaeda organization in Yemen and the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant.

http://syrianfreepress.wordpress.com/2014/01/15/saudis-criminals-from-the-sands-kingdom-jails-to-syria-as-isilisisal-nousraal-qaeda/
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June 17, 2014 9:08am
kowtow

Leo McKinstry on Iraq

http://www.express.co.uk/comment/columnists/leo-mckinstry/482623/Leo-McKinstry-on-the-bloodbath-of-Iraq
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June 17, 2014 9:18am
hj

ShawnLH
So what does the poll result actually mean and how was the question framed if people effectively said they want what we already have?
……..

Michael Reddell (Senior Reserve Bank Economist) says that when the NZ economy slows it is rational for Kiwis to cross the Tasman (and vice versa) It acts like a safety vale on the economy.. Employers are forced to become more efficient or increase wages.
As it is we have a policy of more than replacing departing Kiwis. Reddell points out that 80% of population growth over the last 20 years is non NZ citizens (ex-pat Kiwiis are fee to return).
There is little evidence that Kiwis have benefited and the large positive benefits which policy “””””seems”””” to have been based on haven’t accrued. On the other hand the Government appointed Savings Working Group say the policy appears to have exactly the opposite effect.
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June 17, 2014 9:26am
srylands

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/10164871/Horror-ride-as-deadly-dog-attacks-two-horses

What is it with bogans and dogs? I walk in this park and have frequently seen this girl on her horse.
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June 17, 2014 9:42am
Harriet

Thanks kowtow.

“……As it is, the political elite, which sends our troops to die in Iraq and Afghanistan, supposedly in the fight against global jihadism, wilfully allows Islamic bigotry, intolerance and alien practices to flourish here.

Over the past decade more than 500,000 migrants have settled here every year, the majority from Asia and Africa, while the doctrine of multiculturalism has meant there is no official drive to integrate newcomers.

So we end up with the nightmare of Muslim zealots organising the takeover of schools, promoting sharia law and importing institutionalised misogyny such as forced marriage.

Moreover the Human Rights Act means that our legal system is utterly supine in the face of extremists. What we need is a political class that in place of this destructive enthusiasm for globalisation puts Britain first……’

He nailed that!
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June 17, 2014 9:44am
fernglas

I see McCready has filed proceedings against Key and Benefield in relation to the Banks saga. He alleges a conspiracy to pervert justice, and that Key was an accessory to filing a false return, apparently by failing to read a Police report. Given that the report came well after the return was filed, I can’t see how Key can be an accessory. As to the first charge, let’s see what happens.
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June 17, 2014 9:52am
MT_Tinman

Elaycee (4,209 comments) says:
June 17th, 2014 at 8:45 am
New Zealand 217/9 (73.1 overs) v West Indies

Normal service resumes?

It’s never a great idea to comment until both first innings are over.

221 may be a great score on this track.
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June 17, 2014 9:56am
stephieboy

Harriet, what evidence do have that the Muslim community in NZ ” wilfully allows Islamic bigotry, intolerance and alien practices to flourish here…………… etc “if that was what you are thinking towards .?
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June 17, 2014 10:03am
hj

James Stephenson
Chinese immigration, investment, property buying: Outrage “it’s terrible, something must be done, Kiwis are losing their birthright!”

White, English-speaking immigration, investment, property buying: silence.
………..
Lack of economic evidence for immigration aside. New Zealand was settled by people from the British Isles and up until 1973 we sent 50% of our exports to Britain. 90% of New Zealanders would have had ancestors from the British Isles (or Ireland).

Humans evolved in small relatively homogeneous groups and hence have a natural preference for people from, their own group (more than 94 per cent of Chinese permanent residents and more than half of those with NZ citizenship told University of Auckland researchers that they felt a greater sense of belonging and identified more with their country of origin than New Zealand).

In NZ as in Europe:

A more plausible explanation of the growth in anti-immigrant sentiments in Europe is the public’s perceived threat to the very essence of their national identity and a sense of belonging, which are anchored in their cultural, social, religious and economic institutions. The threat is seen to emanate from immigrant communities that fail to integrate into the societies of their host countries and often challenge existing institutions, all encouraged by official policies of multiculturalism.
http://hgrubel.blogspot.co.nz/2010/12/multiculturalism-in-trouble.html
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June 17, 2014 10:07am
Harriet

Stiffieboy#

“…….Harriet, what evidence do have that the Muslim community in NZ ” wilfully allows Islamic bigotry, intolerance and alien practices to flourish here…………… etc “if that was what you are thinking towards .?….”

Ask the Australian Federal Police – as they said in the news paper that they new exactly where in Indonesia Kiwi and Australian Muslim girls were being taken to by their mothers to have their ‘excitable bit’ cut off

edit: they didn’t use the words ‘excitable bit’.
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June 17, 2014 10:08am
hj

Judgements on immigration are affected by group bias . Prejudice is too strong-a-word (in my opinion). Same group bias could run either way (as in sugar coating). Either way the context is 2014 when parts of the world are grossly over populated and it isn’t just about space it is about economy and quality of life. Currently the National Party is pursuing population growth by the back door (aided by a Marxist paradigm on the left that sees racism as a hangover from white imperialism).
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June 17, 2014 10:24am
hj

alloytoo (398 comments) says:
June 17th, 2014 at 8:51 am

@hj

Did you read the article?

Sales decreased due to lack of inventory, that’s the very opposite of a bubble.
……….
Isn’t the Demographia thesis that that doesn’t happen in mighty Houston?
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June 17, 2014 10:29am
kowtow

Steffie here ya go
Muslims in New Zealand.Want their own schools because they don’t want New Zealnd values…….

“Trust chairman Mohammad Alayan said the trust wanted to establish the academy because it believed Muslim children attending state secular schools were subjected to an educational environment which pressured them to adopt values contrary to Islamic values, such as evolution theory, sexual relations outside marriage and drinking alcohol.”

Full article here.

http://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/281675/muslim-school-leader-dismayed-reaction
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June 17, 2014 10:31am
igm

Is it possible to see a list of McCready’s financial sponsors? I understand Fairfax journos came to the party and now there is talk of Dotcom also. I think this is in public interest so where are media?
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June 17, 2014 10:42am
igm

kowtow: Labour will adhere to anything Muslims want, even to the point of giving one a free ride to Parliament. They will stuff NZ the same as they have Britain and the US.
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June 17, 2014 10:44am
Harriet

igm#

like I said a week or so ago – if people are worried about the Christian Conservatives – then wait till you see Islamic Labour.

As you say they will appease them.
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June 17, 2014 10:54am
Jack5

Britain has outlawed five Islamic groups fighting in Iraq, making it illegal to help them or be part of them.

Will NZ do the same to keep more of its naturalised Muslims and convert Muslims from joining the Islamic war? And what are we doing about the possibility of these people, always headlined by the docile MSM as “Kiwis”, returning to NZ and bringing their vile, cowardly terrorist tactics with them?

Home Office Minister James Brokenshire says the risk of Islamist Jihadists trained in Syria returning to the UK intent on violence is the “number one security issue” facing the British Government.

In the meantime, hope like hell NZ doesn’t get the seat on the Security Council. Last time, the campaign to get the seat led to us taking in a slab of Muslims.

Let’s hope the MSM grows some balls, too, and refers to the naturalised citizens fighting for the Islamists as Jihadists, rather than Kiwis.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-27865849
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June 17, 2014 11:02am
ross411

UglyTruth (3,656 comments) says:
June 17th, 2014 at 8:49 am
Hypocrite much, Manolo?

An investigation by the Today Programme has uncovered new evidence that Cardinal Cormac Murphy O’Connor the leader of the Catholic Church in England and Wales failed to act appropriately when dealing with paedophile priests in his former diocese of Arundel and Brighton.

At this point, anyone who goes to a priest that has not excommunicated the church proper from his local business, is supporting paedophiles in the church. Believers, go to your church and sit there, and look at the priest and how he does not stand against the institution which has in effect sanctioned these crimes. Look at your fellow parishioners and see how they choose to ignore it. Look at your own children, and think about it.
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June 17, 2014 11:13am
kowtow

ross411

Channelling bigot bruv.
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June 17, 2014 11:16am
wikiriwhis business

Cannabis plants cost man his home

A Picton man whose home was seized by the courts over drugs charges says he has effectively lost his pension plan and daughter’s inheritance.

The house, in Picton, will go to auction tomorrow.

Gary Tittleton, 67, was ordered to forfeit 50 per cent of the value of his Picton home, after he was convicted in 2009 for cultivating cannabis and possession of cannabis for supply.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/10166632/Cannabis-plants-cost-man-his-home

This was a set up. How did the cops know?

The same thing happened to a lotto winner years ago. He bough ta farm and the cops raided it finding marijuana in the bush. The guy lost everything. Suspicious as.

Again, a random isolated property police have targeted. Obviously a police trend. We will see more of it in the future.
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June 17, 2014 11:27am
wikiriwhis business

“what evidence do have that the Muslim community in NZ ” wilfully allows Islamic bigotry, intolerance and alien practices to flourish here…………… ”

Obviously S boy, you haven’t heard how Brit PM Cameron has announced multi culturism does not work.
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June 17, 2014 11:30am
wikiriwhis business

“Islamic Labour”

H Clark announced our nation was secular then made a bee line to a mosque.

Tricky, tricky traitor
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June 17, 2014 11:32am
wikiriwhis business

“An investigation by the Today Programme has uncovered new evidence that Cardinal Cormac Murphy O’Connor the leader of the Catholic Church in England and Wales failed to act appropriately when dealing with paedophile priests in his former diocese of Arundel and Brighton.”

Q: Why are so many National supporters Catholic?

A: Because the National Socialists were Catholic.
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June 17, 2014 11:35am
wikiriwhis business

I see the police are looking for a car in relation to a missing person but the media blacked out the no plate. How bizzarre.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/10165134/Police-search-home-family-cars
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June 17, 2014 11:41am
infused

Waiting for thestandard to publish the latest poll results… holding my breath…
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June 17, 2014 11:43am
UglyTruth

Gary Tittleton, 67, was ordered to forfeit 50 per cent of the value of his Picton home, after he was convicted in 2009 for cultivating cannabis and possession of cannabis for supply.

The great kiwi protection racket nets another victim. Paying tax supports these criminals.
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June 17, 2014 11:54am
Manolo

Islam, a bleeding wound on humanity. A violent cult that deserves to be repudiated by any thinking person.
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June 17, 2014 12:00pm
Jack5

Wikiwiri at 11.35:

Q: Why are so many National supporters Catholic?

A: Because the National Socialists were Catholic.

First, Wikiwiri, how do you know National supporters are disproportionately (compared with the general population) Roman Catholic? I bet the National Party reflects the general proportion in the population. Labour has had Catholic leaders: Michael Savage, for example.

Second, the Nazis. While Hitler, Goebbels, and Himmler were raised as Catholics, Goering, Hess, Borman, Speer, Eichman had Protestant backgrounds.

Third, Wikiwiri seems to be smearing National by trying to establish a link based on the names: “National Party” and “National Socialists”.

The “Socialists” makes any name link stronger to Labour and the Greens.

The Nazis were socialists as the link below explains. This quote from it is revealing:

Hitler told Hermann Rauschning, a Prussian who briefly worked for the Nazis before rejecting them and fleeing the country, that he had admired much of the thinking of the revolutionaries he had known as a young man; but he felt that they had been talkers, not doers. “I have put into practice what these peddlers and pen pushers have timidly begun,” he boasted, adding that “the whole of National Socialism” was “based on Marx”.

Wikiwiri, when it comes to the socialism of the Nazis, you don’t know your arse from your elbow.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/danielhannan/100260720/whenever-you-mention-fascisms-socialist-roots-left-wingers-become-incandescent-why/
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June 17, 2014 12:11pm
SGA

wikiriwhis business at 11:41 am

I see the police are looking for a car in relation to a missing person but the media blacked out the no plate. How bizzarre.

Not really. They are looking for a car like that car – not actually that car.
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June 17, 2014 12:23pm
Viking2

Greenpeace loses $5.9m in failed currency wager

11:20 AM Tuesday Jun 17, 2014

Greenpeace loses $5.9m in failed currency wager
11:20 AM Tuesday Jun 17, 2014

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Greenpeace

Add Greenpeace International to the ranks of losers in the $5.3 trillion-a-day global foreign exchange market.

The Amsterdam-based nonprofit organization said it lost 3.8 million euros (NZ$5.9 million) last year after an employee bet that the euro wouldn’t strengthen against other currencies, Greenpeace said on its website. Greenpeace, which runs environmental campaigns in more than 40 countries, didn’t name the employee, who worked in its international finance unit and has been relieved of his position.

more; http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11275711
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June 17, 2014 12:47pm
G152

Is it possible to see a list of McCready’s financial sponsors? I understand Fairfax journos came to the party and now there is talk of Dotcom also. I think this is in public interest so where are media?

I’d suspect the left especially the MSM …
Ought to be a bond that the McCready’s of the world are required to post and a statement required as to where it came from
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June 17, 2014 12:56pm
Griff

Considering the harm it does I find it perverse society gives alcohol barons knighthoods and other honers
The Nathen family and others have made vast fortunes with us taxpayers footing the cost that their industry inflicts on society.
Yet someone selling a little of a less harmful drug gets their house confiscated
bizarre
It reminds me of the Dylan lyric
Steal a little and they throw you in jail
Steal a lot and they make you king
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June 17, 2014 1:03pm
Griff

V2
Griff recently made a compliant against the actions of a police officer.
I are very impressed by both the professionalism and efforts of the police in their investigation of my complaint.
Maybe there are genuine reasons why your posted story seemed so one sided..
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June 17, 2014 1:08pm
stephieboy

kowcow,

your link is highly misleading. The Trust Chairman explains clearly the purposes of the school which is no different in aims to most Christian and of other Independent Schools,

“Trust chairman Mohammad Alayan said the trust wanted to establish the academy because it believed Muslim children attending state secular schools were subjected to an educational environment which pressured them to adopt values contrary to Islamic values, such as evolution theory, sexual relations outside marriage and drinking alcohol.”

Thus Christians and other religious schools can establish like schools but Muslims cannot.? I thought that those same Islamic values would strike a responsive chord with our Christian funds who post here regularly ,including yourself.?
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June 17, 2014 1:15pm
kowtow

stuffie

Bollox

Mr MoMo misrepresents deliberately what NZ secular schools teach.

Christian schools have always been part of the NZ tradition as indeed is Christianity.

Muslims want their own schools because their ideology is one of separateness and superiority.

Talking of Muslim education, haven’t we learned anything from the English experience?

Fuck ’em.
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June 17, 2014 1:26pm
lilman

Dont like Muslims ,they are discriminatory to women,pure evil cult.
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June 17, 2014 1:47pm
UglyTruth

You’re such an ignorant twat, kowtow. The death cult of Christianity is condemned by it’s own canon.

Fuck them? Fuck you.
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June 17, 2014 1:47pm
mikenmild

How about we get religion the fuck out of education altogether?
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June 17, 2014 1:50pm
UglyTruth

It doesn’t work, mikenmild. The state depends or religion for oaths and in order to assume sovereignty. The perversion of true religion is the single core reason why New Zealand is so fundamentally corrupt.
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June 17, 2014 1:57pm
SGA

Are Charter schools a vehicle for the sort of religious separatism in education that is bothering people here? Or, are there provisions against such schools heading it that direction? (I don’t know, hence the questions).
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June 17, 2014 2:00pm
stephieboy

kowcow,
The Education Act 1877 established and education system in NZ that was and still remains Compulsory, free and secular. No mention is made for Christianity . The aim of the Act was to get away from the sectarianism and denominationalism that was rife in society then.
TheCatholic Church maintained their own separate system and the Anglican Church their Private schools.
Later other Christian groups established schools like Hebron College that sought to retain traditional and fundamentalist christian teachings .
The desire of certain Muslims to establish independent or private schools is no different is really no different and there is no evidence that they do this solely out of “one of separateness and superiority.”
I believe the Muslim Community in the UK made provision for Independent schools long before the presence of Militant Jihadists.
This militancy is a problem in especially the UK but you can’t tar a whole Muslim community here with the sam brash as you are attempting to do.
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June 17, 2014 2:02pm
mikenmild

New Zealand does not have a state religion, Ugly, in case you had not noticed.
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June 17, 2014 2:02pm
mikenmild

‘you can’t tar a whole Muslim community’
Hah! Watch it happen right here.
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June 17, 2014 2:03pm
UglyTruth

New Zealand does not have a state religion

The state religion is the religion of the head of state. Political sovereignty is about hierarchy, so only only the religion of the HoS is relevant in determining the state religion. The state religion doesn’t dictate what religion the people should have, is only describes the religious values and dogma of the state itself.
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June 17, 2014 2:08pm
stephieboy

UT, the swearing on the Bible in court these days is no longer obligatory. And why this religious obligation to ” assume sovereignty.” ?
NZ fundamentally corrupt.???
Which e.g judges and court officials have been accepting bribes or perverting the course of justice.??
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June 17, 2014 2:08pm
mikenmild

‘The state religion is the religion of the head of state.’
Untrue. There is no statutory basis for religion in New Zealand – ie the Parliament has not made any laws in respect of religion.
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June 17, 2014 2:10pm
UglyTruth

Dont like Muslims ,they are discriminatory to women,pure evil cult.

You’re the evil one, lillman.

O you who have believed, it is not lawful for you to inherit women by compulsion. And do not make difficulties for them in order to take [back] part of what you gave them unless they commit a clear immorality. And live with them in kindness. For if you dislike them – perhaps you dislike a thing and Allah makes therein much good.
Quran 4:19
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June 17, 2014 2:13pm
UglyTruth

There is no statutory basis for religion in New Zealand

That’s completely irrelevant. The religious basis of the state comes from the coronation oath of the head of state.
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June 17, 2014 2:15pm
stephieboy

And the Education Act 1877, as mentioned above, makes Education Free, Compulsory and secular

‘The state religion is the religion of the head of state.’ ??

A nonsensical statement if there ever was one .!
”
“That’s completely irrelevant. The religious basis of the state come from the coronation oath of the head of state.”

Where does it say in NZ’s constitution or our other laws that the Church of England is our state religion.??
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June 17, 2014 2:15pm
nasska

The greatest thing that could happen, should we desire world peace, would be if religion was socially equated to an STD.

If people admitted Christian or Islamic beliefs in the shamed, hushed privacy normally used to announce a dose of the clap we would all be living in a better place.
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June 17, 2014 2:16pm
mikenmild

Her oath to uphold true religion, or whatever for of words she uses, has absolutely no impact on New Zealand. The New Zealand Parliament has effective sovereignty, as will be amply demonstrated when it decides we’ve had quite enough of monarchs altogether.
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June 17, 2014 2:17pm
UglyTruth

http://www.actsinjunction.info/corruption.html

Facts of state corruption
The corruption is the perversion of meaning of the term “common law”.

corrupt:
(v.) mid-14c., “contaminate, impair the purity of,” from Latin corruptus, past participle of corrumpere (see corrupt (adj.)). Late 14c. as “pervert the meaning of,” also “putrefy.” Related: Corrupted; corrupting. ()

pervert:
(v.) c.1300 (transitive), “to turn someone aside from a right religious belief to a false or erroneous one,” from Old French pervertir “pervert, undo, destroy” (12c.) and directly from Latin pervertere “overthrow, overturn,” figuratively “to corrupt, subvert, abuse,” literally “turn the wrong way, turn about,” from per- “away” (see per) + vertere “to turn” (see versus). ()

The perverted meaning used by the state is: “The whole of the common law is judge made.”
Also: “The common law, which is a body of law built up from decisions made in the United Kingdom and in New Zealand.”

The perversion of meaning is the falsehood that the common law is nothing more than case law. The common law is not built up from decisions made in the United Kingdom and in New Zealand, but in fact is built up from the usages and customs of antinquity, and these usages and customs have a theistic nature which is not part of the secular description used by the state.
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June 17, 2014 2:19pm
Manolo

I almost choked when I read the resident Muslim nutter citing the Quran, that vile piece of crap not good enough even as toilet paper.
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June 17, 2014 2:23pm
mikenmild

Oh back to the common law. Whatever its pseudo-mystical origins, the common law has in fact constantly changed over the centuries by the operation of monarchs, parliaments and judges.
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June 17, 2014 2:23pm
UglyTruth

Her oath to uphold true religion, or whatever for of words she uses, has absolutely no impact on New Zealand.

The impact on New Zealand is due to the oath (or affirmation) of allegiance made to the head of state. If you have sworn allegiance to a corrupt monarch then you are is no position to do anything about that corruption.
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June 17, 2014 2:24pm
mikenmild

Bullshit. One – there is no corrupt monarch. Two – I have sworn no such allegiance.
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June 17, 2014 2:25pm
stephieboy

UT, yawn. ho hum.Of no relevance to the way the government or its citizens conduct their daily lives . The common law as you describe also is antique and irrelevant ,now largely included in or replaced by statute law as passed by parliament.
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June 17, 2014 2:26pm
Manolo

UT, do me a favour: export yourself to peaceful Pakistan, tolerant Saudi Arabia, civilised Afghanistan, developed Syria, and wonderful Somalia. The jihadists will welcome you with open arms.
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June 17, 2014 2:33pm
stephieboy

Even the Inmans in those countries would be puzzled by UT’s bizarre rants .
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June 17, 2014 2:40pm
Manolo

Stephie, have you received your copy yet?
http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/publishing-source-hillary-book-bomb_795079.html
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June 17, 2014 2:43pm
Dom Knots

Let’s not forget to add israel to Manolo’s list of fun travel options. Enjoy a snack on top of the segregation wall and watch the Caterpillar bulldozers reduce to rubble the homes and lives of Palestinians. In violation of international law!
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June 17, 2014 2:59pm
UglyTruth

Bullshit. One – there is no corrupt monarch.

One example of the corruption of the house of Windsor is the rejection of the law which prohibits usury:

https://www.royal.gov.uk/ImagesandBroadcasts/Historic%20speeches%20and%20broadcasts/CoronationOath2June1953.aspx

Archbishop: “Will you to the utmost of your power maintain the Laws of God and the true profession of the Gospel?”
Queen. “All this I promise to do.”

The connection between the house of Windsor and the Rothschilds…

Lord Jacob (the 4th Baron) Rothschild was made a Member of the Queen’s Order of Merit (personally selected & bestowed by the Monarch, this is directly below the rank of Knight Grand Commander of the Order of the Bath in terms of honour) in 2002 & Knight Grand Cross of the Order of the British Empire in 1998.

http://dublinsmick.wordpress.com/2013/11/13/rothschilds-papal-and-royal-knights-the-nazi-zionist-policy-which-rules-the-world-today/
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June 17, 2014 3:03pm
nasska

UglyTruth

How do you define “usury”? The Christian church does not seem to have a clear stance.

To some, usury is charging extortionate interest….others condemn the charging of any interest. Then there are the sects who believe that you should not charge interest if you loan an individual money but it’s okay for business borrowings.

Ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usury

How say you?
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June 17, 2014 3:14pm
mikenmild

Ugly
When you have a link to ‘the Nazi Zionist policy which rules the world today’, don’t be too surprised if no one takes you seriously.
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June 17, 2014 3:25pm
wreck1080

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/money/10167993/OCR-rise-a-huge-mistake

OCR rise a ‘huge mistake’

Interest rate rises aimed at cooling the Auckland housing market will hammer New Zealand’s towns and provinces, a leading economist says.

He told an investment conference in Auckland today that growing inequality between regions was an “elephant in the room” that was being ignored by policymakers.

“The gaps opening up in New Zealand are really big across geographical, race and education lines.

“One of the biggest issues of this generation is the widening gap between the haves and have-nots.”

The decline in the regions was “structural rather than cyclical” through demographic and economic factors such as the ageing population and the loss of manufacturing jobs.

Interesting although isn’t manufacturing at record levels?
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June 17, 2014 3:26pm
Don the Kiwi

UT,stephieboy and a few others who question others’ comments regarding excluding the ‘religion of peace’.

From The American Thinker:

“Oh, the people trespassing on our land aren’t wearing uniforms; they aren’t wielding cold steel. But this isn’t always necessary. As Muammar Gaddafi once pointed out, some invasions are prosecuted “without sword, without gun, without conquest.”
“We don’t need terrorists; we don’t need homicide bombers,” he said. “The 50 plus million Muslims [in Europe] will turn it into the Muslim Continent within a few decades.” Of course, in the waning West, we call this “diversity” and “demographic change.”

Food for thought, No ?
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June 17, 2014 3:34pm
mikenmild

The ‘American Thinker”? LOL.
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June 17, 2014 3:36pm
kowtow

What about thisd lot?

http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/private/1924/0002/latest/DLM93574.html

Spiritualism ,act of parl 1924.
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June 17, 2014 3:37pm
UglyTruth

Nasska, the Hebrew word translated as usury is nashak, which can also mean “bite”. The bite of usury comes from having to repay something which never existed in the the first place. It’s related to the prohibition against false weights and measures – if silver is lent then the contract is perfected when the same value of silver is repaid. The only time usury was condoned was when it was part of economic warfare.
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June 17, 2014 3:38pm
ShawnLH

“How about we get religion the fuck out of education altogether?”

How about we allow parents to choose for themselves how their children are brought up?
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June 17, 2014 3:42pm
mikenmild

kowtow, the existence of a private act to tidy up the property of a church held in trusts has what reference to Ugly’s pseudolegal babble?
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June 17, 2014 3:44pm
SGA

ShawnLH at 3:42 pm

“How about we get religion the fuck out of education altogether?”

How about we allow parents to choose for themselves how their children are brought up?

From above –
“Trust chairman Mohammad Alayan said the trust wanted to establish the academy because it believed Muslim children attending state secular schools were subjected to an educational environment which pressured them to adopt values contrary to Islamic values, such as evolution theory, sexual relations outside marriage and drinking alcohol.”

So you’d support Mr Alayan?
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June 17, 2014 3:47pm
ShawnLH

“The state religion is the religion of the head of state.”

Nope. NZ has no state religion, and never has done. The Crown’s role as head of the Church of England applies only to England itself (not Britian as a whole, and not any other country in the Commonwealth). Otherwise Anglicanism would be the state religion of India.

UT’s take on this issue is just more word games and pretzel “logic” that has no relation to reality.
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June 17, 2014 3:49pm
Judith

Now that Labour has come out saying there is no evidence of any donation of $15,000 ever being made by Liu in their records – surely the person that broke the story, now has to offer up the evidence that it was made?

Who broke the story? I would like to see the evidence they have, because it would settle the issue – one way or another. Either way, someone is going to look very stupid.
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June 17, 2014 3:49pm
ShawnLH

“So you’d support Mr Alayan?”

Yes. But so what? We already allow parents some degree of choice in NZ. Parents can send their children to any number of private and/or religious based schools, and this has been the case for as long as I can remember, and the sky has not fallen as a result.
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June 17, 2014 3:52pm

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