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June 14, 2014 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 14 June 2014

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General Debate

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big bruv

Nos

Oh come on now!

Who the hell would employ him given his history?
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June 14, 2014 9:34pm
hj

Wonder how the Greens are progressing with their treaty policy

One of jh’s themes has been dis-satisfaction with the Green Party for not being specific about the outcomes of our policy in relation to the Treaty. “What, specifically, will this country be like if we go down this course?”. It’s a question I have heard many times over the years, and it usually speaks from a position of fear and insecurity for Pakeha: what if I’ll be worse off? or even what if there’s no place for me?
I want to acknowledge that actually we are asking people to do something (and we are doing it too) quite different from what we usually ask with our policy. Normally we have a very clear idea of the outcome we are seeking, and establish a policy to reflect how we will get there.
But the Treaty is different. The words all have the potential to sound pretty hammy, but fundamentally the outcome being sought is a process: the process of absolute good faith negotiation, in which we Pakeha engage from a position of honour – acting ethically and morally.
That process involves courage because we don’t know the outcome (and because we know we have it pretty sweet just how things are, let’s be honest). It is pretty scary, but it’s also pretty damn exciting!

http://blog.greens.org.nz/2010/05/03/my-speech-at-blackball-2010/

when itstricky types start beating up on the European ask them what they want done. Remember Shylock was awarded a pound of flesh but wasn’t allowed to draw any blood.
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June 14, 2014 9:37pm
Nostradamus

Here you go Big Bruv – a government department apparently…
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June 14, 2014 9:37pm
hj

The itsricky party
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zyla5S9mTlE
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June 14, 2014 9:40pm
big bruv

Nos

Goodness me!

Care to have an educated guess as to what that government department might be?
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June 14, 2014 9:45pm
Nostalgia-NZ

Another fantastic loss by the poms, I hope Canterbury take it easy on them or they will probably pack a sad and go home before the 3rd test.
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June 14, 2014 9:46pm
Nostradamus

Big Bruv:

I suppose you have to start from the premise that he was most eminently qualified for the job. That should narrow the field down a bit…

Anyway, what do people think about the narrow margin of victory over England? Coming on top of last week’s result too.
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June 14, 2014 9:50pm
Colville

Good game.
How did the TMO allow the ref to award a try when he said the ball wasnt down?
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June 14, 2014 9:51pm
MT_Tinman

big bruv (12,691 comments) says:
June 14th, 2014 at 9:45 pm
Nos

Goodness me!

Care to have an educated guess as to what that government department might be?

Department of Corrections (New Zealand) ?
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June 14, 2014 9:54pm
Griff

Stephie
This has been revised from the previous underestimation of up to 20,000 Since I last read it.
they now put this

Although estimates vary, the deaths caused by these conflicts may have exceeded the 18,500 New Zealand lives lost in the First World War.. At a time when the total population was perhaps only 100,000 (compared to around a million in 1914-18), the Musket Wars had a massive impact on these islands.

King in his nz history places the number at at least 20,000 and probably far more .
other historians have placed the number as far greater and the literature at the time gives the number at up to fifty thousand.

By the 1830s campaigns had become too costly. With European diseases also taking a heavy toll, warfare gave way to economic rivalry.

The diseases its bumpkin without support in the history or any believable basses in medicine The Maori people were very finely spread there was just not the population density or movement of persons to allow epidemics to develop. Some Maori around the settlements did get western aliments but inland they were not exposed to the them for decades yet many had yet to even see white people before 1840 .

In 1835 Ngāti Mutunga and Ngāti Tama took the fighting offshore when they devastated pacifist Moriori during their invasion of Rēkohu, the Chatham Islands.

the moriori did not fight they were just slaughtered like animals.They staked the woman along a beach and let them drown as the tide came in

The fact that maori were quite happy to kill baby’s to speed their escape had a very negative effect on the population demographics as well leaving a entire generation of children decimated as at 1840

Spin buddy the genocide should be included in the history of the treaty taught. The chiefs sighing had just seen forty years of warfare and slaughter it must have been a huge motivation for the treaty being sighed properly the main one. also think about at most 2,000 settlers and the reality of being surrounded by 50,000 to 80,000 well armed and battle proven Maori
Read the history around the time and learn about the missioners and settlers and what was happening at Russel
it buts the perspective of the “unlawful settlers” in a new light when you understand where the claims originated from and the dynamics between the catholic, Methodist and Anglican missions and the settlers, whalers, sealers and timber men.

the final passage in that history of the musket wars is
Setting aside their impact on internal Māori politics, the Musket Wars – and in particular the unease of British authorities at the participation of traders in them – contributed to the decision to colonize New Zealand in 1840.

Again were is the mention of the wars impact for Maori when it came to sighing the treaty and again they paint the settlers as evil gun runners with no actual context.
The Maori were begging for guns read the story of hongi hika http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hongi_Hika
it was not gun running settlers as spun but gun begging Maori.
.
Read this resource up to the 1840s as I have and you can see a lot of the apologist colonial guilt driven spin is absolute fantasy at best.

http://www.enzb.auckland.ac.nz/browse.php
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June 14, 2014 9:56pm
Nostalgia-NZ

He was certainly confused about that Colville, maybe he’s been watching gridiron. It was a good game, the AB forwards coming into their own. Retallick dominating our throws and a couple of wins of their ball, scrum stronger – one for the books. Hard to see how Ben Smith can be displaced from fullback now, and the half needs more protection with maybe Slade a run at first five.
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June 14, 2014 9:57pm
wikiriwhis business

We don’t have a world cup team yet
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June 14, 2014 9:59pm
big bruv

Tinman

Yes, that had crossed my mind. The obvious question then becomes what side of the wire?
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June 14, 2014 9:59pm
dime

Slade? Are you on drugs? Or are you a cantab?
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June 14, 2014 10:00pm
Nostalgia-NZ

His super rugby form has been very good, and he’s playing with time on his side. That’s what the ABs needed in the halves tonight. I could see his inside partner getting a call up for the dead rubber but probably Hansen may stick with the tried and true even though they’ve been off in the halves for 2 games now.

Bit of a poor show by the ref penalising the ABs for cheating in the first 15 minutes.
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June 14, 2014 10:18pm
Hair Removal Specialist

Slade has played well in super 15, but Barrett has played much better
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June 14, 2014 10:28pm
Nostalgia-NZ

The coaches see Barrett as an impact player, it’s worked over many tests now. Slade been a starting first five in the past, much like an opening batsman compared to a down the order prolific scorer.
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June 14, 2014 10:34pm
Left Right and Centre

All blacks win despite patchy bumbling error strewn shoddy performance. Almost beat themselves.

Ben Smith – great cover defence tackle on 110kg at full pelt Manu Tuilagi. I love Cory Jane but he was shit last night. Jerome Kaino played well I thought.

They didn’t play well as a team. Looked disjointed. Funny watching Tuilagi trick pass to create England’s late consolation try – looked like something the ABs would do.

You’d think that after Tuilagi near single-handedly consigned the ABs to a comprehensive defeat in England that they would be all over him like white on rice marking up, shutting him down, containing him. But no. He seemed to be allowed to roam free and cause damage no trouble – again. He’s not that bloody good – no-one is – especially playing the ABs you’d think – think Lomu never scoring a try against South Africa. And the worst part is he’s playing NZ players at their own game – his style is totally NZ running rugby / offload / take it to the line hard or run gaps / angles. It’s not as if he’s some queer unpredictible frog.

Typical example of a night where it didn’t come off like it should have: Cruden trying to tip the ball on left to right – you know – instead of taking the dumb boring option of catching the ball, taking the tackle and trying to retain possession. Lost forward. Geez – if you can’t pull off the tricks save them for your youtube videos. Cory Jane in midfield – I’ll just run straight into two big England players two metres in front of me. Bye bye possession. They’re not mugs at the tackle and breakdown – should show some respect and don’t get caught held up with the ball off the ground for these fellas to pick you off like that. Too easy – bread and butter to them. I expect a lot of Cory Jane – I think he’s the kind of bloke that ‘thinks of everything’ before it happens or can happen so I hate seeing him put himself in a two on one and getting cleaned up.

Considering that the total available playing time is 80 mins and stuff all of that time is the ball actually in play – think about how many basic unforced errors were happening. It must be tough being Steve Hansen watching your charges fuck it up with a sadly reliable consistency. Can’t blame the coach for poor execution by so-called ‘top highly-paid highly-trained naturally talented and driven sports professionals’.

Yellow card for the English player was joke and top level rugby is marred by these soft sinbinnings. I’m sure it used to be that if a player was yellow-carded it was a big deal. Now – you just expect it to happen every game. Teams probably train around it happening every game. It’s becoming a bit of a 14 man game these days.

TMO – video technology again just a joke. You need sensors on the ball to detect downward pressure. The answer lies in yet more technology seeing as somehow even with the benefit of frame by frame replays these dickheads still can’t get something so bloody simple right. In the context of the match I thought it might just about cancel out the England player yellow carded or something.

You’d better hope that the ABs are playing like shit – because if that’s their best it’s going to be a long frustrating international season for the diehards.
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June 15, 2014 7:16am
Pete George

After being under the hammer for the first fifteen minutes the All Blacks fought their way into the game and dominated England for most of the second half. The score was close but it flattered England, one try awarded that was dubious at best and their last try was helped substantially by consecutive scrum penalties that could easily have gone the other way. England looked like they screwed the scrum several times under pressure and were given penalties.

So a deserved and well won victory for the ABs.

But this is a different England team, one that can score tries from anywhere so they will always be potentially dangerous. The third test is anyone’s game.
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June 15, 2014 7:31am

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