General Debate 13 June 2014

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mister nui

WTF. TVNZ have sent that pre-pubescent wet-behind-the-ears little twerp Jack Tame to Brasil to cover the world cup.

FFS, couldn’t they have found someone a bit more worldly.
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June 13, 2014 8:00am
duggledog

Not being facetious but if the National Party can arse hole Brian Neason out of Helensville to make way for JK, after he’d been there for something like 20 years, why do some think it’s impossible to make a concession for Conservative Craig?

I know, different party, but I don’t see why not
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June 13, 2014 8:03am
Viking2

Friday the 13th and a full moon.

All the nutbars will be out tonight.

Howling at the moon.

http://www.howlatthemoon.com/dueling_piano_bar/full-moon-party/
Of course some of them spend all day here.
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June 13, 2014 8:03am
Viking2

duggledog (1,219 comments) says:
June 13th, 2014 at 8:03 am

Not being facetious but if the National Party can arse hole Brian Neason out of Helensville to make way for JK, after he’d been there for something like 20 years, why do some think it’s impossible to make a concession for Conservative Craig?

I know, different party, but I don’t see why it’s impossible…

=======================
Its different when Labour lite do it.
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June 13, 2014 8:05am
kowtow

I wonder how many “kiwis” are involved in the march on Baghdad?

Obummer has a real dilemma on his hands.These nutters are his allies in Syria but his enemy in Iraq.
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June 13, 2014 8:06am
duggledog

Mister nui – why Jack Tame?

because management positions in television broadcasting and production are invariably held by middle aged women
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June 13, 2014 8:06am
jp_1983

Jack Tame is a progressive remember –
Its all about the rich taking away from the poor.

———
Just like when Toni Street got the 2008 Olympic Job instead of Veitch
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June 13, 2014 8:09am
Keeping Stock

There have been some interesting debates at my place this week as the Green candidate for Invercargill defends the NZEI over its refusal to engage with the Government on something that might just benefit students. So it’s going to interesting to see how he responds to this post, in which a young disabled man recounts his experiences with the school system…

http://keepingstock.blogspot.co.nz/2014/06/comment-of-day-13-june-2014.html
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June 13, 2014 8:11am
duggledog

V2 I’d like a better answer please 🙂

Nice morning but I’ll be getting the fire going tonight…
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June 13, 2014 8:12am
hj

Are you concerned about the level of immigration in New Zealand? If so, what are your concerns?

Yes (82%)
No (18%)
http://www.nzcpr.com/
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June 13, 2014 8:12am
Dead Earnest

Mark my words. If CCCP poll over 2.5% Murry McCully will roll over and gift East Coast Bays to Craig. If National’s Dark Knight isn’t prepared to sacrifice his seat for the salvation of the country, he should be compelled to take up a diplomatic posting in Outer Mongolia.
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June 13, 2014 8:15am
Fletch

Thanks to green regulations, many of Britains power plants have been closed. So now the Govt may be forced to enact “energy rationing” ala WW2, and force businesses to shut down at various times of day.

The UK government will today set out Second World War-style measures to keep the lights on and avert power cuts as a “last resort”. The price to Britons will be high, however.

Factories will be asked to “voluntarily” shut down to save energy at peak times for homes, while others will be paid to provide their own backup power should they have a spare generator or two lying around. And as part of the government’s wider energy market reforms, electricity producers will be able to name their price for bringing mothballed fossil-fuel-powered plants back on line.

The problem is that the energy plants were closed due to compliance with EU environmental regulations, but the UK has failed to build adequate replacements. This means the country can barely cope with peak winter demand. Successive governments have chosen to build expensive, unreliable renewables instead – which can’t meet the nation’s peak energy needs.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/06/10/uk_preps_ww2style_energy_rationing/

Will these liberals never learn?
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June 13, 2014 8:27am
david

Several people have raised the legitimacy of the “war room” set up in Labour’s parliamentary office and the accompanying position of Cunnliffe’s “Chief of Staff” Matt McCarten.

Has the Speaker, at any stage, passed comment on this apparent rort and visible breach of Parliament’s rules about use/misuse of party funding? Surely someone has posed this as a formal question to the Speaker which requires an answer.

Recent Press reports (written by journalists, trained and skilled) indicate that they are fully aware of the activities in the War Room and its inhabitants. Has the Taxpayer’s Union got an opinion on this?

If ever there was the need for a magnifying glass to be held over a piece of electoral fraud, this is it.
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June 13, 2014 8:29am
Griff

http://www.salon.com/2014/06/09/the_catholic_irish_babies_scandal_it_gets_much_worse/

What Ireland is only now beginning to fully investigate and understand is a story involving potentially thousands of children who were almost certainly neglected and mistreated, and whose deaths were addressed as a mere trash disposal issue. It is now believed a total of upward of 4,000 children were similarly disposed of in other homes across the country. It’s a story of untold even higher numbers of children who were unwitting subjects in a vaccine test that further refused to see them as human beings, capable of fear and pain. And an interesting insight into why so many children may have been so casually treated and tossed away was revealed in a recent feature on the scandal in the Independent. Babies born to unwed mothers – and this, let it be noted, would have included mothers who were raped – “were denied baptism and, if they died from the illness and disease rife in such facilities, also denied a Christian burial.” In other words, the Catholic institutions that these women and their children were forced to turn to as their only refuge viciously turned their backs on them — treating them, quite literally, as garbage. This is abuse of the highest order. Abuse in life, abuse in death. Carried out by religious orders so warped, so perverted in their utter lack of mercy that they participated in the suffering of an unfathomable number of babies and children. This is what the Catholic Church of Ireland is capable of, when it is given free rein over the bodies of its most vulnerable members. And an official inquiry hasn’t even begun. As Michael Dwyer told the Mail this weekend, “What I have found is just the tip of a very large and submerged iceberg.”
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June 13, 2014 8:32am
Fletch

Looks like the Jihadists have captured Tikrit now.

Megan Kelly report on Iraq, with General Jack Keane (Fmr Vice Cheif of Staff, Army), who warned that this would happen if U.S troops were withdrawn.

http://video.foxnews.com/v/3618304357001
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June 13, 2014 8:36am
Keeping Stock

@ hj (8.12am) – I would have voted “yes” in that poll too. I would like to see more immigration, and I am concerned that the level of immigration isn’t high enough 😀
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June 13, 2014 8:38am
Than

duggledog;

It’s certainly not impossible. But McCully has indicated he would like to keep the seat, and National wouldn’tt want a fight that spilled out in public, so if there is to be a deal it would have to start with placating McCully somehow. Either a winnable list place and good ministerial roles, or a good job offer for him to retire from politics.

But getting McCully to agree is only a small part of the calculation Key will have to make regarding the Conservatives. The bigger part is whether making an arrangement with the Conservatives will help or hinder National’s chances of re-election. Which group is larger – those who will vote Conservative even if they are not going to get into parliament, or those center voters National would lose from making the arrangement?

I’m in the later group (I will not vote for National if they make an arrangement with the Conservatives), so that biases my view. But the poll numbers don’t look good for Colin Craig. The Conservatives got 2.7% last election, and have polled 1-2% ever since. People don’t like wasting their vote, so if the Conservatives don’t get a deal I’d be surprised if they get over 2% in the election. If making an arrangement with the Conservatives cost National even a 0.5-1% swing (so a corresponding 0.5-1% gain to Labour) they’d be worse off for it.
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June 13, 2014 8:38am
Harriet

Dead Ernest #

“…………Mark my words. If CCCP poll over 2.5% Murry McCully will roll over and gift East Coast Bays to Craig. If National’s Dark Knight isn’t prepared to sacrifice his seat for the salvation of the country, he should be compelled to take up a diplomatic posting in Outer Mongolia……….”

Exactly. This was posted last night.

“…………..kiwitory (4 comments) says:
June 12th, 2014 at 1:56 pm

Here here Colin Craig excellent addition to the Government; I was smacked as a child and I smacked my children and there is nothing wrong with them.

Fortunately those marxist lefties are not intelligent enough to understand tactical voting or otherwise Mr Key may have a problem.

If Labour / Green supporters voted National in the seats where National has come to an accommodation with the Conservative and Act we could actually end up with a National candidate winning the seat; what a disaster that would be!….”

Key will watch the polls…….and gamble a maxist future against going alone.

But to do that he has to do exactly like Keating said “Carry the people with you” – and that’s quite telling – as the longer he leaves it that he supports the Conservatives – tells us the direction he wants to take the country in; with Abbott, Harper & Cameron — or with Hillary —-and her village —- Hulun’s current place of work!

By leaving the option of playing it safe by giving the seats to the Conservatives – the more he looks like a Marxist! 😎
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June 13, 2014 8:47am
Other_Andy

Iraq……
One of Obama’s government’s great achievements.
According to the towering intellect of our time, Uncle Joe Biden.

[youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLteUGkvpOc?feature=player_detailpage&w=640&h=360%5D
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June 13, 2014 8:47am
Fletch

Griff @8.32, what a load of sensationalist clap-trap.
If it weren’t for homes like this, these children and orphans would have had nowhere to go at all. I’m not saying that some of these places weren’t harsh – it sounds like they were, but mush of this mistreatment stuff has been debunked – the Magdalene laundries (where women who were there say they were NEVER mistreated, and never saw anyone else being mistreated), to the Tuam “pits” to Letterfrack.

http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite/article/the-tuam-tank-another-myth-about-evil-ireland/15140

Laters – must dash off to work.
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June 13, 2014 8:49am
Chuck Bird

Than, so who would you vote for if not National?
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June 13, 2014 8:50am
Pete George

david – I asked the Speaker about it and got a response:

Thank you for your email. I can confirm that the relocation of Labour’s parliamentary staff into a large open plan office aligns with the functions that these parliamentary staff members perform in support the Labour Leaders Office. I am assured it is not related to election activities which you rightly point out should be kept separate.

Thank you for writing to me on this matter.

Yours sincerely

Rt Hon David Carter
Speaker of the House of Representatives

That seems clear, so it’s odd that media open talk about an election campaign ‘war room’.
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June 13, 2014 8:50am
hj

Wasn;t peak oil seen off?

The inevitable demise of the fossil fuel empire
Rocketing production costs, proliferating write-downs, stranded assets pave the way for renewable renaissance
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/earth-insight/2014/jun/10/inevitable-demise-fossil-fuel-empire
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June 13, 2014 8:50am
All_on_Red

Beautiful day. A bit of humour to make it better.
Sir Les Patterson ( Barry Humphries) interviewed by Michael Parkinson 1982
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nULFMp4jKBo
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June 13, 2014 8:51am
Dead Earnest

Than, If you don’t vote National, will you vote for one of the component parts of a Labour, Green, NZF, Mana Dotcom government then?
The point I am making is, even if people don’t like a CCCP deal, they will hold there nose and vote National, than risk contributing to the total asphyxiation of a nation that the alternative promises to be.
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June 13, 2014 8:51am
Than

Chuck Bird, that’s an excellent question which I don’t know the answer to yet. The Civilian Party or simply not voting are the most likely answers.
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June 13, 2014 8:52am
Pete George

There’s been a number of comments at Whale Oil from potential National voters who wouldn’t vote for them if they pull McCully and try to gift East Coast Bays to Craig. It would be a risky move for National. It would take away from them some useful campaign ammunition that would instead be fired at them.
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June 13, 2014 8:55am
Redbaiter

One thing about being brave enough to say you support Colin Craig and the Conservative Party, it shows you’re not suffering from the morbid communist pathology that afflicts most NZers.

In particular the many National sycophants who comment at Whaleoil and Kiwiblog.
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June 13, 2014 8:55am
Ryan Sproull

Megan Kelly report on Iraq, with General Jack Keane (Fmr Vice Cheif of Staff, Army), who warned that this would happen if U.S troops were withdrawn.

You can go a few years further back and check out all the people who warned that this would happen if the US illegally invaded Iraq.
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June 13, 2014 8:58am
hj

re Peak Oil: we’re due for the Big One on the Alpine Fault. Just because it hasn’t happened doesn’t mean it isn’t going to.
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June 13, 2014 8:58am
Other_Andy

hj says:

Wasn;t peak oil seen off?
The inevitable demise of the fossil fuel empire
Rocketing production costs, proliferating write-downs, stranded assets pave the way for renewable renaissance

That’s what you get when you read the Gruniad.
The Gruniad has been warning us about peak oil for the last 40 years.

Then on July 2, 2012 they published this….
We were wrong on peak oil. There’s enough to fry us all .
George Monbiot: A boom in oil production has made a mockery of our predictions. Good news for capitalists – but a disaster for humanity.

The Gruniad…..
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June 13, 2014 9:02am
david

Pete George @ 8:50am

Thanks for that.

Someone is telling porkies then.
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June 13, 2014 9:05am
EAD

John “rapidly emerging multiculturalism in New Zealand” Key should read this article by James Delingpole about why Western Culture is the best and why the vast majority of the population who whilst opening with wide arms immigrants who add to this lucky country, don’t want to see it’s Western roots and pillars changed and diluted by backwards cultures (particularly from a certain religion) and lose what we have got. It is HIGHLY worth a read:

http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-London/2014/06/12/Look-it-really-is-very-simple-Western-culture-IS-the-best

The Western Culture of course that we so highly value and which enables us to live the relatively free & independent life that we do is eloquently described by Delingpole as being:

“based on the wisdom of the ancients, combined with Judaeo-Christian morality, filtered through the empiricism of the Enlightenment. Fundamental values include: property rights; religious tolerance; habeas corpus; universal suffrage; equality under the law; love thy neighbour as thyself; free-ish markets”
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June 13, 2014 9:09am
hj

Jack Tame got the job at TVNZ because he has an invisible knapsack of white privelege (and because he’s good looking – another knapsack advantage).
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June 13, 2014 9:11am
Pete George

EAD ironically quotes “religious tolerance;” while commenting “don’t want to see it’s Western roots and pillars changed and diluted by backwards cultures (particularly from a certain religion)”.
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June 13, 2014 9:13am
Than

Dead Earnest, that may be true for most economically right wing but socially liberal voters. But the group I’m talking about are swing-voters in the center, people who don’t see a Labour (or even a Labour-Green) government as a particularly bad outcome.

Elections are won and lost in the center, and right now National firmly holds this ground. An arrangement with the Conservatives risks ceding some of this back to Labour.
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June 13, 2014 9:23am
hj

@ EAD
I’m not so sure Western culture is the issue. Could we have Islamic culture on Friday and Saturday nights please?
I watched this TED talk on China last night. The Chinese have a very strong culture and identity. 90% see them selves as Han (the other ethnicites are around the fringes. They see the state as the patriarch, like the head of the family. We are going hell bent to destroy our national identity – a Marxist goal. I think countries with a strong national identity wouldn’t tolerate the sort of behaviour we saw in Henderson (us attacking them)?
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June 13, 2014 9:33am
Nigel Kearney

Fundamental values include: property rights; religious tolerance; habeas corpus; universal suffrage; equality under the law; love thy neighbour as thyself; free-ish markets

The fact that another culture has values inferior to ours doesn’t tell us much about the values of people specifically choosing to leave such a culture and come here. On average, I would expect that someone who stepped off a plane from China yesterday is more likely to support the values you listed than someone whose grandparents were born here.
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June 13, 2014 9:34am
Ed Snack

So supporting Saddam Hussein’s rule over Iraq now Ryan ? Or perhaps if you make a commitment to “regime change” perhaps one should follow through with it and not just cut and run. But no doubt we can once again recognize how effective the new “smart diplomacy” as practiced by the current administration, has been. It was all Bush’s fault in the first place wasn’t it ?
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June 13, 2014 9:35am
OneTrack

Than – “Chuck Bird, that’s an excellent question which I don’t know the answer to yet. The Civilian Party or simply not voting are the most likely answers.”

That will no doubt help you feel warm inside when the Green/Labour/ManaNet/Winston taniwha takes power. A protest vote or not voting is an enabler for the hard-socialist nightmare.
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June 13, 2014 9:36am
EAD

Hang on a minute there Pete, I said that we need to discriminate against backwards cultures…backwards cultures that happen to have their belief system rooted from a certain religion that promotes women as 3rd rate citizens, non-believers as “Kaffirs” and believes that Gay should be stoned.

Perhaps if I called it an ideology rather than a religion then perhaps I would satisfy the oracle of NZ political blogs “Pete George”

@hj – no – Western culture is what has to be defended.
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June 13, 2014 9:36am
Dead Earnest

Possibly Than, but most in the centre would be more far moe afraid of a Hone-Dotcom-Minto-Norman-Peters-Cunliffe trainwreck than Colin Craig cutting a deal with Key to cross question Neil Armstrong in return for confidence and supply!
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June 13, 2014 9:38am
Than

Chuck Bird; I regard a hard-socialist nightmare that might last 3 years at most as better than a conservative nightmare getting into parliament indefinitely.
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June 13, 2014 9:40am
Chuck Bird

Than, there are also many of thousands of voters who will not vote National because of their liberal stance on issues like smacking and the redefinition of marriage.

BTW, what have you got against the Conservatives? Unlike the liberals they do not what to force their views on the majority. Their policy is for moral issues normally decided by a conscience vote to be decided by referenda.
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June 13, 2014 9:41am
Redbaiter

“On average, I would expect that someone who stepped off a plane from China yesterday is more likely to support the values you listed than someone whose grandparents were born here.”

That’s nuts. They could quite easily be a committed communist with deep attachment to the ideas of Chairman Mao. (If you’d said Taiwan I’d be more ready to accept it.)

Chinese communists are by intent infiltrating Pacific nations and who is to guarantee that they have no plan to eventually dominate local culture?

With the Bolshevik white ants we have here in NZ already we don’t need any more from Maoist China.
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June 13, 2014 9:41am
minus

Mike Treen exonerates Kim Dotcom of all wrong doing, but observes –

He wants to take his revenge on this government. This is perfectly understandable. He has every reason to do so. In fact, given his treatment, he has more reasons than most. The most effective way for that to happen is for this government to be defeated in the coming election. The Mana-Internet party alliance is the best way to make that happen. He was smart enough to see that.
http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2014/06/12/why-the-mana-internet-alliance-is-a-potential-game-breaker/

So Dotcom is in it only for revenge.
And Key’s crime appears to be the claim that he hadn’t heard of Dotcom, until the raid on Coatsville was about to happen.
So whether a Labour-lead Government is best for New Zealand or not, fuck us all meantime, one man would like to destroy New Zealand’s current Government to satisfy some personal slight.
That’s democracy? Vote for Laila Harré? Or Internet / MANA?
[ _________] no ! insert whatever expletive you feel fits
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June 13, 2014 9:43am
OneTrack

Than – “But the group I’m talking about are swing-voters in the center, people who don’t see a Labour (2014) (or even a Labour-Green) government as a particularly bad outcome. ”

You mean the people who answer yes to polls as to whether NZ is heading in the right direction ( 62%? on the last poll ), and will in the same poll then indicate they are voting for a change of government. Those people?

If the worst happens, then the buyers remorse will be deafening after about 6 months – “Wah, I didn’t think that would happen…..”
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June 13, 2014 9:45am
Chuck Bird

Than, it looks like our comments crossed. Which party would you be most concerned about getting into Parliament – the Conservatives or NZF. If the voters felt that the Conservatives would likely get ECB they may vote for them rather than NZF.
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June 13, 2014 9:46am
Chthoniid

@Dead Earnest

Mark my words. If CCCP poll over 2.5% Murry McCully will roll over and gift East Coast Bays to Craig. If National’s Dark Knight isn’t prepared to sacrifice his seat for the salvation of the country, he should be compelled to take up a diplomatic posting in Outer Mongolia.

Let me assure you, that as an ECB voter, I intend voting for McCully.
I will in no conceivable circumstances vote for Craig and the CCCP. I would also baulk at giving the Nats my party vote if they attempted this sacrifice-gambit.
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June 13, 2014 9:47am
kowtow

Islamic culture?

The biggest sporting event in the world started today with three doves released in the stadium.

Where does that imagery come from? Peace and hope,from the Old Testament.

As opposed to prisoners being executed under the black banner with it’s Koranic verse.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2655977/ISIS-militants-march-Baghdad-trademark-bullet-head-gets-way-control-north.html
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June 13, 2014 9:53am
OneTrack

Than – “I regard a hard-socialist nightmare that might last 3 years at most as better than a conservative nightmare getting into parliament indefinitely.”

Which is more likely – that John Key can keep Colin Craig and his “team” under control, or that David Cunliffe (brain the size of a planet) can keep the Greens ( Russel and Metiria), Winston, Hone, Laila, DotCom and the flakes in his own party under control.

I don’t see your conservative nightmare coming out of a party which has 2.5% of the vote, especially when most of his policies appear to align with old National. I do see a socialist/communist nightmare coming out of mish-mash of hard left wingers pushing for their new world order, with none of them having any likelihood of control of the other parts. Metiria, Russel and Laila would just run over David Cunliffe for a start.
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June 13, 2014 9:54am
Than

Chuck Bird:

My apologies, I directed a reply to OneTrack’s comment to your name. As to which I’d be more concerned about, the Conservatives without a doubt.

I have zero respect for Winston Peters and NZF is nothing but his vanity project. But at the end of the day they are harmless. Winston’s support can be bought for a fancy title, a few million for lollies to scatter for his supporters (various expansions for the GoldCard), and not making changes to super which National didn’t plan on anyway. There is also the fact that NZF are already in parliament. That horse has bolted. The Conservatives aren’t, and if they don’t get in this time I suspect they never will.
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June 13, 2014 9:55am
hj

“Yet in the West, this self-hatred and cultural embarrassment are considered by our left-leaning intellectual class a sign of sensitivity and sophistication.”

http://makingitinakl.blogspot.co.nz/2012/12/the-brilliance-of-doubt-meet-steve.html

http://www.tasa.org.au/conferences/conferencepapers07/papers/29.pdf
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June 13, 2014 9:55am
Judith

@ Dead Earnest (33 comments) says:
June 13th, 2014 at 9:38 am

I disagree. Craig sounds more like a nutbar on a good day, than Winston Peters does on a bad day, or when he’s on the turps ( and that’s pretty bad).

Colin Craig appears to be someone that is offering to fix all the popular policies that people have disagreed with over the years, but fails to offer anything substantial on how he would actually run the country. It’s all very well allowing to parents to smack their children again, but what will he do about the number of child abuse cases that frequent our communities?

Promising to cancel an unpopular policy is one thing – and I’m sure ‘Bob the Building Craig’ is up to doing that – I’m just not sure he knows what to do after he’s pushed the cancel button – on every aspect of governance.
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June 13, 2014 9:59am
Redbaiter

“I will in no conceivable circumstances vote for Craig and the CCCP. I would also baulk at giving the Nats my party vote if they attempted this sacrifice-gambit.”

Good.

Fuck off and vote for Labour then.

Its your support of National anyway that has over the years taken them far from what they stand for and slowly shaped them into a virtual Labour party sub-group.
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June 13, 2014 10:03am
hj

Fundamental values include: property rights; religious tolerance; habeas corpus; universal suffrage; equality under the law; love thy neighbour as thyself; free-ish markets

“property rights” Did anyone say land monopolists: the current property investor crowd who have built large property portfolios? Riding asset inflation and (currently) pushing immigration to keep prices high?

Tonight, a pumped de Roos tells his audience that he wants people to invest in property and write to him 12 months down the track and tell him they’ve “made one million or three million, or you’ve got 16 properties, or we’re taking six months off because our cash flow now exceeds our outflow!” He says, “I don’t know any other activity where the rewards are so huge. If you want to invest a million dollars in the sharemarket, you need a million dollars. If you want to invest a million in real estate, you only need $100,000.”

You can buy one property, get it revalued, use the equity to buy another property and then buy another and another. “And you do it all with OPM. Other people’s money. OPM. It’s like being high on drugs!” What’s more, the wonder of depreciation claims on the building and contents means “the government subsidises your investment! It’s delightful!”

and don’t tell me it didn’t work – it’s all been written about..
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June 13, 2014 10:05am
Judith

@ OneTrack (2,316 comments) says:
June 13th, 2014 at 9:54 am

But it wouldn’t just be Key and Craig, would it. Just like you point out the melting pot of the left, the right (National) would also need a similar cauldron in order to rule. It is likely to be Key, Craig, Dunne, Act?, and whoever from the Maori Party.

I’ll wager my best silk knickers that our next government, whoever it is, will be the biggest conglomeration of misfits ever witnessed before in this country – and they’ll do such a bad job that the electorate will be begging someone to abolish MMP before the following election. Whoever wins that election will have one hell of a mess to clean up.
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June 13, 2014 10:10am
Ross12

Fletch & Other_Andy

http://seekingalpha.com/article/2264063-the-bakken-gets-bigger-likely-a-lot-bigger

Can you see a Tui billboard going up for hj and his mates ?
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June 13, 2014 10:12am
SPC

So Bush launched a regime change in Iraq that required a continuing US military presence to secure. Yet the continuing presence was not affordable and the deficits and debts piled up.

No succeeding POTUS could make this work, just leaving them to get blamed for the consequences of the Bush PNAC programme.
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June 13, 2014 10:14am
flipper

It would a very good day when idiots with a fetish for immigration TAKE A HIKE.
Senseless harping over migration patterns, and demonstrating a control mentality in respect of planning do nothing to enhance KB’s GHD.
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June 13, 2014 10:14am
flipper

Jabba the Dot…

I guess we have all been a bit slow in failing to properly identify and name the alien presence.
The resemblance is so great that I cannot understand how we missed it.
But perhaps it was the ceremonial chaining of Laila of squeaky voice to Jabba that made us realise our error.
🙂
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June 13, 2014 10:21am
All_on_Red

SPC
True, but Iraq does now have the money from oil which they could have used to reimburse the US for security.
The US always makes this mistake and leaves too early. To be frank they probably needed to stay 20 years or more to try to achieve a generational change. It’s the classic , put policemen ( or troops) in every suburb to live, is what gives the locals confidence and security. Once they leave it’s easy for terror to take hold.
Judith made a comment the other day about how in her youth the local cop out in Henderson always being around and keeping all the young tearaways in line. It works. Different scale of course but same philosophy
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June 13, 2014 10:25am
Dead Earnest

So do I take it Chthoniid that you would be prepared to risk a Hone, Minto, Dotcom, Norman, Peters, Cunliffe government, than put aside your distaste for Craig? I doubt it
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June 13, 2014 10:27am
Pete George

The impression I get is that (for obvious reasons) Conservative supporters want National to gift Craig an electorate, but voters inclined towards National are much less likely to back a jack-up.
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June 13, 2014 10:28am
hj

I wondered if the letter read on morning report was worth a complaint ? On Radio NZ they don’t usually read an email “(blah blah) “an idiot like Colin Craig”? I’ve never heard “an idiot (anyone) read in an email.
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June 13, 2014 10:30am
Pete George

An enterprising attempt by ex-Mana candidate Clinton Dearlove to conjure up support for three MPs for Te Tai Tokerau by voting him for the electorate with Kelvin Davis and Hone Harawira getting in via their lists.

Unless supported by Harawira in particular (is it another cunning plan?) it has little chance of success as intended. It is more likely to split the electorate vote and then anything could happen.

Three MPs for Te Tai Tokerau?
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June 13, 2014 10:32am
Judith

Dead Earnest (34 comments) says:
June 13th, 2014 at 10:27 am
So do I take it Chthoniid that you would be prepared to risk a Hone, Minto, Dotcom, Norman, Peters, Cunliffe government, than put aside your distaste for Craig? I doubt it

Nothing like a bit of scare mongering or outright lies to start the day huh?

1. Dotcom cannot be in government.
2. It is highly unlikely that Minto would be in government as it means the IP party would need to win more than three seats in order for that to happen.

How about you put aside your distastes and start adopting some reality instead?
The type of Government you describe is not a risk, it would be a bloody miracle to achieve considering all that would have to happen in order for it to eventuate.
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June 13, 2014 10:36am
Chthoniid

@Dead Earnest

I don’t buy the scenario that Craig is the white knight that will rescue the National government. And I find his party completely unpalatable as a voting option. So yes, I’d take that risk.
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June 13, 2014 10:39am
Pete George

Apart from being wrong about Dotcom “Hone, Minto, Dotcom, Norman, Peters, Cunliffe government, than put aside your distaste for Craig?” doesn’t detail who might get in with Craig. The Conservative list should be taken into account if you want to make comparisons.
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June 13, 2014 10:39am
hj

@ Ross12.
I’ve been a believer in peak oil and I expected we would all be aware of an event of one degree or another. The bump wasn’t felt but I think we are aware we have gone off the tar seal and are now on gravel?
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June 13, 2014 10:40am
Pete George

It would be bad enough if an election was decided on voters choosing the least worst large party to run Government, but it could become farcical if it’s decided by voting for the least worst fringe parties.
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June 13, 2014 10:42am
Manolo

Chaos in the lovely world of the followers of the religion of peace. Those shitholes continue to burn.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/iraq-crisis-islamist-militants-warn-battle-will-rage-after-seizing-mosul-and-tikrit-9530899.html
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June 13, 2014 10:45am
Pete George

Cameron Slater:

The National Party are going to make a huge mistake entertaining a Colin Craig deal. This isn’t about cups of tea. The man would never be selected as a National Party candidate on his talents alone. He is just completely unsuitable for the job.

Now, I realise a fair proportion of my readers are a fan of a more right leaning National, and they see the Conservative Party as a vehicle to pull National to the right. In fact, National can even “donate” some of its policies and pretend they are less right than they want to be, yet still get it done.

All of this looks great on paper – until you meet and have to work with Colin Craig. He’s just the wrong guy. Let’s see how desperate, pragmatic or principled National are.

http://www.whaleoil.co.nz/2014/06/cup-tea-needed-act-gifted-epsom/

National’s internal polling will have to be quite compelling to go against what seems to be strong opposition to an electorate accommodation with Craig.
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June 13, 2014 10:47am
kowtow

“Pete George (22,210 comments) says:
June 13th, 2014 at 10:28 am
The impression I get is that (for obvious reasons) Conservative supporters want National to gift Craig an electorate, but voters inclined towards National are much less likely to back a jack-up.

Vote: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 0”

Like the cuppa for Epsom?

All tea is equal but some tea is more equal than others.
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June 13, 2014 10:49am
Viking2

duggledog (1,221 comments) says:
June 13th, 2014 at 8:12 am

V2 I’d like a better answer please 🙂

Nice morning but I’ll be getting the fire going tonight…
=====================
well how about;
Don’t do what I do, do as I say.

Nice day here too. As you say a fire tonight.

Oh and watch out for the werewolves.
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June 13, 2014 10:51am
Redbaiter

Most atheists are so hung up on their beliefs that when it came to voting for any party they thought had even the remotest connection to Christianity, they’d prefer to vote Labour.

That’s why they’re worthless in the fight to restore civility in our community and respect for our heritage.

We won’t make progress in defeating the left until obsessive atheists, dividing and weakening our defence, are out of the way. They must be recognised as part of the problem and forced to accept their real allegiance is to Progressivism.

Let them go to Labour and divide and weaken that side of the political spectrum.
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June 13, 2014 10:51am
J Bloggs

“All tea is equal but some tea is more equal than others.”

Amen for that!!! (can’t stand Earl Grey)
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June 13, 2014 10:52am
Alan

If National do want to give NZCP a seat, then surely the best one is Helensville?

Key can go on the list at number 1, frankly I’m sure being a electorate MP is a chore he could do without as he’s far too busy running the country.
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June 13, 2014 10:53am
kowtow

Slater says “The man would never be selected as a National Party candidate on his talents alone.”

Really? What short memories we have when it comes to slagging off Colin Craig.

Aaron Gilmore springs to mind.A talent for rudeness seemed to be his strong suit.
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June 13, 2014 10:53am
Dead Earnest

Your call Chthoniid, Its a democracy after all.
Judith Dotcom may not be in government, but as the left always tells us “money talks”.
Minto hopefully won’t make it either, but he’s been waiting along time to practice a bit of old fashion marxism, so I guess Hone and Harre, well be happy to oblige!
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June 13, 2014 10:54am
Chuck Bird

National in 2017 will definitely need a coalition partner that can bring in extra MPs. There is little chance that either ACT of UF can bring in more than one. The Maori Party will be lucky to have more than one MP.

National needs an excuse to have a binding referendum on the retention of the Maori seats. If the Maori Party gets one or no seats they may support the referendum if the threshold was dropped to 4% and coat tailing stopped. That would mean the Maori Party would likely get in next time with 4 or 5 MPs and Home would be history.
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June 13, 2014 10:54am
Redbaiter

Cameron Slater is John key’s mouthpiece.

They both represent the Progressive faction of the National Party.

John Key is using Slater as a willing partner in his objective to turn the National Party away from its Conservative founding principles.
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June 13, 2014 10:55am
hj

@ Other Andy

We were wrong on peak oil. There’s enough to fry us all .
George Monbiot: A boom in oil production has made a mockery of our predictions. Good news for capitalists – but a disaster for humanity.
….
what Mombiot refers to is not the same thing. He’s saying that there is lots of oil to continue the upward trend in greenhouse gases. He isn’t addressing efficiency (EROEI) and the subsequent effect on industrial society. The bottom line is if it becomes too expensive to recover and the oil companies aren’t making a profit. That would imply a percentage of those goods and services the oil is used for are no longer worth it? A market economy functions like an eco-sytem and in that case it has found it’s limiting factor.
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June 13, 2014 10:57am
Griff

If you want national to lean right it is the ACT party you need to support with your party vote
NOT a christian conservative fruitcakes vanity project.
Now Banks has gone act has no longer got the taint of Christian Authoritarianism and lingering stench of conservative cronyism.
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June 13, 2014 10:59am
Judith

@ Pete George (22,211 comments) says:
June 13th, 2014 at 10:47 am

Now there’s a first, for once I agree with Slater.

Colin Craig is just simply ‘wrong’. To try and incorporate him into a National coalition government would simply make it unstable, especially if you also need Maori in the mix as well. The cost of having both sitting at the same table as National would be horrendous, and eventually lead to indigestion and tears.

For Key to back away from his previous stance on things like anti-smacking etc, would weaken his image and make him appear flakey, as would the deals he would have to make with Maori to get them there as well considering Maori opposition to their lack of improvement despite supporting the last two National governments.

Better to have Key governing alone, than to have Craig in the mix – IMO (and considering how I don’t like Key, that’s saying something).
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June 13, 2014 10:59am
stephieboy

Manolo, KB is a most useful place to vent your bile and spleen but as a contributor to understanding the world we live in ( no matter how vile it appears ) you might as well confine your posts to say Aryan Nation or Stormfront or whats the Tea Party official website.? You’s be most welcome at either.
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June 13, 2014 10:59am
Redbaiter

“I don’t buy the scenario that Craig is the white knight that will rescue the National government. ”

This idea exists only in the minds of the completely self deluded.

Craig is deeply flawed but it doesn’t matter for what is most important is that the combined power of the Labour/National Progressive bloc is weakened.

The CP is the thin end of the wedge that is needed to eventually lever the big govt high taxing big spending Progressives out of our lives.
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June 13, 2014 11:02am
mikenmild

I’m wondering whether we might not see a minority National government, just supported on confidence by a few tiny parties and negotiating issue by issue on everything else.
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June 13, 2014 11:04am
Dead Earnest

Don’t get me wrong, I am not a great fan of Colin Craig, but if he starts polling over the 2.5% National will have to do some serious thinking. Tough decisions will have to be made, and East Coast Bays is the obvious place for a deal.
One positive of Craig is in many respects his constituency is also NZF’s. If he can appeal to enough NZF voters to drive NZF below 5% he would finish off Peter’s for good – He’ll need a walking frame by 2017!
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June 13, 2014 11:05am
Redbaiter

“You might as well confine your posts to say Aryan Nation or Stormfront or whats the Tea Party official website.?”

A cowardly smear that is a perfect example of the vile communist pathology I was referring to above. This is neo-Bolshevism where a strategy of collectivist hate is the foremost tactic and if not confronted for the evil it is, will eventually be backed up with violence and bloodshed.
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June 13, 2014 11:06am
Judith

@ Dead Earnest (35 comments) says:
June 13th, 2014 at 10:54 am

Whilst in essence it may appear that way, there are two factors that you need to consider.

Firstly, if Dotcom is deported, and there is no reason to think he won’t be unless his $5 million bid for information turns anything substantial up – Dotcom will have no influence from offshore, especially with no money.

Secondly, you are under estimating Hone and Harre. Hone is really stubborn, and doesn’t like anyone telling him what to do. Whilst he might be happy to play along for now – he is not going to take being told what to do by Dotcom well at all. He simply has to be boss – and there isn’t room on the top chair for his ego and Dotcom’s bum.

Harre is ‘principled’ (in what she believes in) and there is no way she would take action to block Dotcom’s extradition – knowing full well that is what everyone will be watching for. The only way that could/would happen, is if the due process and evidence allows it – and only then it would have to get past the other parties that they are in coalition with. Harre is very aware of claims that she has been bought, and she will, as history has shown, push back to try and demonstrate that is not the case. Dotcom might think he’s bought them – but all he may have bought is a whole lot of trouble for himself.
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June 13, 2014 11:08am
Manolo

Stephie, you a child of progressivism. As such, your enfeebled politically correct approach to everything is repugnant.
For once, stand for your principles, if you have any, not the namby-pamby crap you usually utter.
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June 13, 2014 11:11am
Judith

@ mikenmild (9,896 comments) says:
June 13th, 2014 at 11:04 am

I think that would be disastrous for the country. They would not have sufficient backbone to do what is needed and in short would be held to ransom by the smaller parties and the very different things they want.
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June 13, 2014 11:13am
Chuck Bird

“he would finish off Peter’s for good – He’ll need a walking frame by 2017!”

Maybe but not NZF if they go with National.
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June 13, 2014 11:14am
James Stephenson

Most atheists are so hung up on their beliefs that when it came to voting for any party they thought had even the remotest connection to Christianity, they’d prefer to vote Labour.

It’s the economy, stupid. I really don’t give a flying fuck about Craig’s god-botheringness, I just don’t get the “Conservative” brand alongside opposition to asset sales, free trade agreements…

If you want a “drier” National Party, your only options are to vote for the National Party and cross your fingers, or vote ACT.
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June 13, 2014 11:14am
SGA

Redbaiter at 10:51 am

Most atheists are so hung up on their beliefs that when it came to voting for any party they thought had even the remotest connection to Christianity, they’d prefer to vote Labour.

or ACT, or National, or Greens, or Civilian 🙂 .
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June 13, 2014 11:15am
Dead Earnest

Judith did you say Harre was “principled”?
I beg to differ.
The poster girl of leftwing feminism, who accepts the tainted cash of an immensly wealthy racist foreign fraudster who accumulated vast sums of money facilitaing access to degrading images of women.
Principled you say?
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June 13, 2014 11:17am
cha

With the 101st otherwise occupied Iran’s Revolutionary Guard have stepped up.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/jun/12/irans-revolutionary-guard-deploys-iraq-stop-sunni-/
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June 13, 2014 11:19am
Judith

@ Dead Earnest (37 comments) says:
June 13th, 2014 at 11:17 am

I did put it in inverted commas for that very reason. Being principled is a subjective state. Principles vary from one to another. My principles won’t allow me to feed my dog grains – as I believe our pets should be fed only food they would naturally eat in the wild. My dogs principles are very different. It believes if it can be swallowed, it can be eaten. 😉 We have different principles.
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June 13, 2014 11:26am
Chuck Bird

I just don’t get the “Conservative” brand alongside opposition to asset sales, free trade agreements…

The Conservatives view on these issues are not important. The same applies to NZF. National would not allow a minor party to dictate on such important policies that affect the economy. The could on an issue such as smacking or the Maori seats especially if the Maori Party gets none or one.
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June 13, 2014 11:32am

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