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May 20, 2014 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 20 May 2014

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hj

Jordan Williams of the Taxpayers Union , went a bit far on The Panel . He said “any economist will tell you it’s a supply issue” and (later) “ask any expert or economist and they will say it’s a supply issue”.
Migration and Macroeconomic Performance in New Zealand: Theory and Evidence New Zealand Treasury Working Paper 14/10 by Julie Fry Section 4.2 Housing market impacts concludes with:

“On balance, the available evidence suggests that migration, in conjunction with sluggish supply of new housing and associated land use restrictions, may have had a significant effect on house prices in New Zealand. ”

but that isn’t the same as “every economist will tell you it’s a supply issue”. Supply is only one of many issues including
(for example)
– the effect on incomes

The report added that there was little evidence that immigration boosted local incomes. In fact, the need to build roads and schools meant that net migration contributed to the national deficit.

An appalling piece of propaganda.
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May 20, 2014 8:04am
Left Right and Centre

I don’t know what planet he’s on but it’s not New Zelaand

– Labour Party leader referring to the Prime Minister, TVNZ ‘Breakfast’

New Zealand re-classified as ‘planet’. Scientific community stunned at latest finding by politician.

Also . . .

Aside from seeming sleepy

– opining the Prime Minister’s state of wakefulness or possible lack thereof.

With David at the helm – John can afford to sleepwalk let alone ‘seem sleepy’. . .
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May 20, 2014 8:05am
Pete George

The Māori Party are standing a relative unknown in Tāmaki Makaurau in place of the retiring Pita Sharples.

Labour are still dithering around after the Shane Taurimu debacle and the Wilcox withdrawal from contention.

Is this a rare opportunity for Greens to contest an electorate? Their candidate Marama Davidson has by-election experience from last year, plus energy and ambition – and is in the danger zone on the draft Green list.

Poaching an electorate would be a major and deserved ‘stuff you’ to Labour, and would substantially strengthen Green bargaining power.

Will Greens target Tāmaki Makaurau?
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May 20, 2014 8:06am
Chuck Bird

These are the type if immigrants New Zealand does not need.

Jihad’ threat to mosque security

Islamic centre closed down as tensions between rival groups reach boiling point.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11257805
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May 20, 2014 8:06am
UglyTruth

Arguments based on need lead to a permanent state of crisis management.
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May 20, 2014 8:11am
Carlos

For all the ignorant fucktards who said the Muslims in NZ would be different and we would never have the same shit that goes on in every other country they settle in.

It begins: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11257805
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May 20, 2014 8:16am
hj

Marama Davidson on the Daily Blog.

The Idle No More movement is an indigenous uprising movement that grew from First Nations peoples in Canada in November 2012. Idle No More calls on all people to join in a revolution which honours and fulfills indigenous sovereignty to protect the land and water. The movement was a response to the Canadian government’s Omnibus Bill C-45 which effectively weakens environmental protections and Indian reserve land rights.
Around the world groups of people have pledged their support to Idle No More. It is an indication that more and more people are aware of our current exploitative approach as being short term and unsustainable for our planet. The support for Idle No More is also a recognition that indigenous sovereignty includes being accountable to our Earth Mama and the protection of all people through that. Centuries of otherwise exploitative and competitive greed has facilitated the ongoing colonialism, racism, sexism, homophobia, xenophobia, oppression, inequality and and all the poison that pervades the planet and has privileged only certain groups.

  In Aotearoa the Idle No More movement provides a vocal platform to keep our combined sovereignty issues to the forefront. This includes linking Treaty of Waitangi and indigenous rights to our current political challenges such as:
 . Constitutional Review and what transformations are essential in governing our nation
. ensuring environmental accountability from our government and demanding transparency in their relationship with any extraction industry moguls (mining, deep sea oil-drilling, fracking etc)
. sustaining and caring for our living system including our responsibilities around water
. free market trade agreements including the Trans Pacific Partnership Agreement
. calling for accountability from the government as a signatory to the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples
. the partial sale of our State Owned Assets .current ‘Treaty Settlement’ deals being negotiated.

– See more at: http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2013/03/04/aotearoa-responsibilities-around-indigenous-rights-%E2%80%A8%E2%80%A8-idle-no-more/#sthash.FXMbL3ny.dpuf

A firebrand of the Catherine Delahunty variety. She thinks she’ll make a big impression but she’ll just make a lot of noise.
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May 20, 2014 8:22am
hj

MR News
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zyla5S9mTlE
PC Central ex HRC.
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May 20, 2014 8:26am
geoff3012

Better than sleeping pills and or vast amount of speights…..snore….
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May 20, 2014 8:36am
kowtow

chuck bird and carlos

Thank you for posting that.

I enjoy reading positive and uplifting articles on the joys and benefits that third world immigration and multiculturalism brings to boring, oppressive,white Anglo saxon New Zealand.

I note also that the honkey sounding Moboy was threatened and frightened by having ‘jihad’ declared against him.He must misunderstand Islam, after the September 11 terrorist outrages the western media and Mo apologists were declaring ‘jihad’ was purely a spiritual struggle and we had nothing to fear,Islam being a religion of peace,tolerance and respect………
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May 20, 2014 8:37am
david

HEH hj. For a moment there I translated “Idle no more” into a movement that was designed to encourage people into good honest work and toil. Seems it lost something in the translation tho’.
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May 20, 2014 8:38am
hj

A Review of ‘The Diversity Illusion’ by Ed West Christopher Hitchen

However, a few pages before thus, Ed West says something absolutely correct, and provides an interesting quotation to back it up.

This occurs on page 58, where West says ‘The New Left movement that emerged in the 1960s shifted the aims of Marxism from the economic to the social sphere. While European socialists were traditionally concerned with the plight of the workers, following the increased prosperity of the 1960sthe emphasis moved towards the ‘New Social Movements’, feminism, gay rights, third-world liberation struggles and the light of minorities and immigrants in the West. The African-American Civil Rights movement caused a major shift in the left, with non-whites in and outside the West replacing the workers as the agents of social revolution’.

This is dead right, and I remember, as an Oxford Townie, witnessing the transition as the university revolutionary Left , while still seeking vainly to gain support among largely apolitical industrial workers, and even more vainly to galvanise contented, dope-addled and pampered undergraduates into revolt against their conditions, began to engage in what is now called political correctness. I remember especially how they trooped up the Cowley Road to picket a small hairdressing shop which had been accused of discriminating against black women, an event which escalated rapidly into a major event, nearly rivalling the Vietnam war as an issue.
West (who has read very widely for this book) then quotes Chris Dillow, author of ‘The End of Politics’:

‘Inspired in part by Hobsbawm’s essay ‘The Forward March of Labour Halted’ many on the Left gave up the idea of the working class as a revolutionary force, and looked instead to what they called “new social movements”, women ,blacks and gays. Allied to this was a growing lack of interest in economics, and a rise in interest in cultural theory’.

Cultural revolution, West writes, ‘was a far more attractive idea for the middle-class radicals who comprised the bulk of the New Left. Economic radicalism is not just evidently unsuccessful, but involves financial sacrifice, and shunning wealth is often necessary for personal credibility. Political radicalism costs nothing; the benefits are to middle-class cultural revolutionaries, while the risks and costs are usually borne by people far away’.

The ‘people far away’ could be Latin American guerrillas, or American black activists, or, in these modern times, the remnant of the British working class among whom the new migrants tend to settle. Leftist radicals experience the migrants as cheap nannies and cheap waiters, not as competitors for work, housing, transport, school places, and social services.

http://hitchensblog.mailonsunday.co.uk/2013/11/a-review-of-the-diversity-illusion-by-ed-west.html
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May 20, 2014 8:43am
igm

Muslims are the darlings of “Tojo” Cunliffe, take a look at the arrivals when he was Minister of Immigration! This mongrel and his rainbows would fill the country with them, being a guaranteed source of votes.
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May 20, 2014 8:51am
wreck1080

The government has completely failed to address the cost of housing in primarily Auckland but in other places too.

We have the highest prices IN THE WORLD by many measures but also one of the lowest populations.

Yet when faced with facts, nationals response? Blame labour.

I think National are reaching a level of arrogance and superiority which bought down the labour party.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11257861

Sometimes I wonder if national are happy for prices to increase because their own property portfolios are rocketing.
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May 20, 2014 8:58am
hj

‘As diversity increases, democracy weakens. Faith in democracy declines when people see they cannot make a difference., and mass immigration, a policy clearly and consistently opposed by most people and yet which no mainstream politician will speak against, has shaken the public’s trust in politics. Since politicians will not listen to people’s concerns, they come to the conclusion that politics is pointless’.

As someone with serious doubts about the virtues of democracy, I might be thought to be indifferent to this. But most people believe that democracy, rather than inheritance, tradition or religion, legitimates our state. If democracy becomes obsolete too, then there will be nothing left to legitimate our state, except force.

Then there’s this sad footnote, another episode in the slow, silent disappearance of Christian Britain. The Charities Act 2006, West writes, removed from various Christian institutions (mainly but not wholly the Church of England) the presumption that they were acting charitably, which had previously been assumed by a Christian government of a Christian country. As of that moment, 13,000 Parochial Church Councils, many of the 43 Anglican dioceses, and countless other Church-linked bodies now need to satisfy the Charity Commissioners that they are of public benefit. The purpose of this change was of course to modify the law to suit a multi-faith nation.

http://hitchensblog.mailonsunday.co.uk/2013/11/a-review-of-the-diversity-illusion-by-ed-west.html
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May 20, 2014 9:08am
Ryan Sproull

Then there’s this sad footnote, another episode in the slow, silent disappearance of Christian Britain. The Charities Act 2006, West writes, removed from various Christian institutions (mainly but not wholly the Church of England) the presumption that they were acting charitably, which had previously been assumed by a Christian government of a Christian country. As of that moment, 13,000 Parochial Church Councils, many of the 43 Anglican dioceses, and countless other Church-linked bodies now need to satisfy the Charity Commissioners that they are of public benefit. The purpose of this change was of course to modify the law to suit a multi-faith nation.

I feel bad for those beneficiaries who genuinely need that support but this is the only way to stop people from ripping off the taxpayer.
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May 20, 2014 9:11am
Ryan Sproull

Cultural revolution, West writes, ‘was a far more attractive idea for the middle-class radicals who comprised the bulk of the New Left. Economic radicalism is not just evidently unsuccessful, but involves financial sacrifice, and shunning wealth is often necessary for personal credibility. Political radicalism costs nothing; the benefits are to middle-class cultural revolutionaries, while the risks and costs are usually borne by people far away’.

This is a great point.
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May 20, 2014 9:13am
ShawnLH

Bugger the poor. Who cares if they will suffer so long as the march of militant secularism is unhindered?
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May 20, 2014 9:19am
lolitasbrother

We are lucky here in NZ that we do not have the boat people. It has been a terrible business in Australia, to know what best to do, and the detention camps are not going well.United Kingdom paid and still pays a price for this open door in the 60’s.
Recently as some boat people were detained off Darwin, they shouted curses and death to Australia.
You can say NZ First is zenophobic if you want but for every fifty Islam there is one terrorist who will kill your child. children
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May 20, 2014 9:22am
Elaycee

So Chris Cairns has been outed as ‘Player X’ by Andrew Alderson and Dylan Cleaver…..

Feet up. Popcorn. This will not be pretty…

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11258122
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May 20, 2014 9:28am
MT_Tinman

lolitasbrother (390 comments) says:
May 20th, 2014 at 9:22 am

You can say NZ First is zenophobic

I certainly can (although I would spell it correctly), I do and I’m dead right!

It is not the muslims NZ should be fearing as much as those from North-east Africa and the sub-Continent.

A study of the court cases reported by the slime shows a large percentage of sexual and dishonesty crime prosecutions list defendants of being from this region.
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May 20, 2014 9:35am
MT_Tinman

Elaycee, the Whoreald story says nothing new, in fact says nothing – badly.

What I do want to know – Who does this “leaking” and why?
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May 20, 2014 9:38am
srylands

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/money/10062393/Overvalued-houses-could-force-rents-up

“New Zealand Property Investors Federation executive officer Andrew King said the report would prompt landlords to raise rents. “Rents are actually undervalued and should be higher.”

The average rent, he said, was $350 a week – at least $40 below what it should be – and tenants should expect increases soon.

“We’re trying to get them used to the idea . . . and hopefully they’ll be a bit more planned and prepared for those rent increases when they do come.” [LOL good try Mr King]

A good example of a journalist with no understanding of markets writing silly things.

Overvalued houses will not put rents up. Rents will be determined by the supply and demand in the rental market. A landlord can’t force up rents by saying “Hey I paid too much for this house. I want you to pay more rent”.

The high levels of investment in rental properties has increased the supply of rentals, opening up a gap between the cost of renting and the cost of buying. Simple as that. If landlords aren’t getting the capital gains they are looking for eventually some will exit. That could take pressure off house prices, but actually cause rents to go UP, the exact opposite of what this article says.

If I was advising a young person now thinking of buying a house in New Zealand I’d say don’t do it. Rent a cheap place. Spend as little on housing as you can. Use the money you save to build a balanced investment portfolio. Look again at housing in five years.
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May 20, 2014 9:42am
mandk

Ryan Sproull: “but this is the only way to stop people from ripping off the taxpayer.”

Didn’t you read the bit about the purpose of the change being to modify the law to suit a multi-faith nation? It was nothing to do with stopping people from ripping off the taxpayer.

Besides, how much more would it cost the taxpayer to provide the same services, if the churches ceased what they are currently doing?

Salvation Army vs Ministry of Good Works? Tough choice.
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May 20, 2014 9:43am
EAD

Interesting article in the Herald saying that the disappearance of flight MH-370 was most likely due to being shot down accidentally during joint United States-Thai military exercises in the South China Sea and that the search may have been led astray as part of a cover-up. http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11257656

What I find quite illuminating is that is that this has been my position right from day one (see below) and despite all the media leading us on “a wild goosechase” which was so obviously bullshit – even going so far as to “confirm” the plane had crashed (when it was obvious it hadn’t), and a number of commentators claiming such a theory was “tin-foil hat stuff”, it looks like my thoughts derived using Occams Razor may have been correct all along (see comment below)
http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2014/03/mh370_confirmed_crashed.html#comment-1295498

I still only ascribe this theory approx. 80% of being the correct one with the other one being that based on the pings that the plane was hijacked and landed in Pakistan or on Diego Garcia. That theory depends of course that what we are being told by the media about the engine pings is correct of course…..
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May 20, 2014 9:44am
Ryan Sproull

Ryan Sproull: “but this is the only way to stop people from ripping off the taxpayer.”

Didn’t you read the bit about the purpose of the change being to modify the law to suit a multi-faith nation? It was nothing to do with stopping people from ripping off the taxpayer.

Mandk, a bunch of organisations who were previously assumed to be charitable must now prove that they are charitable and need support. I was making a joke about how people respond when sickness beneficiaries have to prove they are sick and need support.
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May 20, 2014 9:55am
Judith

@ wreck1080 (3,592 comments) says:
May 20th, 2014 at 8:58 am

I do think National has ‘taken their eye off the ball’ so to speak, regarding housing. They have underestimated the importance of housing to New Zealanders. Owning your own home is a masternarrative in NZ. Ideologically it is or has been fed to us as the one defining point of adulthood and success.

Since colonisation and more so, since the end of WWII, NZers have been sold the belief that home ownership, should be our goal in life, and without it, we haven’t met our responsibility to our family’s, community and country. Your ability to be a viable member of the community is determined by your ownership of your 1/4 acre castle.

Almost suddenly, the means to achieve that has changed, and no longer is it possible for many Kiwis to meet that sign of respectability. The ideology hasn’t caught up with the means – and suddenly we have hoards of kiwis quite literally in shock – many having to give up the one thing they have been told they should aspire to their whole lives.

Instead of looking at changing the ideology and moving towards other aspirations, they are looking for someone to blame for their inability to ‘succeed’, and it is easy to find blame by looking at who is buying the houses. The situation has been morphing over the last couple of decades, but has suddenly become really noticeable by events such as CHCH EQ and Auckland’s overcrowding – putting the emphasis on housing.

Instead of all parties carrying on and saying how they will find a way to make the dream achievable again, they need to find a way to stop home ownership from being a defining point of success, and somehow (and god knows how) find a way to make the population continue to work towards success in other areas of life, that are achievable.
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May 20, 2014 9:58am
Odakyu-sen

I am confused.

From time to time I see ads on the TV calling for recruits to join the NZ army or navy, to “protect NZ” or something like that. On the other hand, the same NZ government lets in the kind of people at the source of this mosque bru-ha-ha.

Is there no over-arching philosophy guiding the government of our nation or is each government department hell-bent on maximising its operations, i.e: “get more recruits” or “bring in more refugees” for the armed forces and immigration services, respectively…?
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May 20, 2014 10:04am
Colville

People wanking on about how expensive NZ houses are give me the shits.
Prices of existing houses are set by replacement costs and pretty much every single factor that sets replacement cost is nearly impossible to change.
For those that want land supply opened up (like our Host) thinking it is a silver bullet to fix this need to open their eyes (and look at a map). Cities are surrounded by expensive farmland and lifestyle blocks having greenfields land input at $1mil/Ha isnt going to make for cheap sections.
If you want cheap sections go somewhere like Houston where farm land is $20K/Ha.
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May 20, 2014 10:12am
kowtow

odaku

“I am confused”

That’s how they like it. Equality, diversity, multiculturalism, gender and identity politics. Gay friendliness blah blah.All dressed up as ‘progressive” policies.

To oppose that is to be labelled a dinosaur,a bigot,a racist, on the wrong side of history, indeed a conservative (nasty reactionary)

So the cultural marxists win on the language front, on the policy front and on the legal front. Human rights, which are now legislated, demand that enemies of the state and the host culture must be admitted to the country and to its institutions.

We are witnessing the death of the “west”.Slow, but steady.
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May 20, 2014 10:17am
mikenmild

Bzzz – “cultural marxists”
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May 20, 2014 10:25am
RightNow

@wreck1080, “The government has completely failed to address the cost of housing in primarily Auckland but in other places too.”

This shit is getting stupid. Rising house prices are a direct result of supply and demand.
If the population of Auckland keeps increasing then demand for housing will keep outstripping supply and prices will keep rising, unless new housing stock is introduced faster than the increase in demand.
It is ridiculous to think that intervention to depress prices of existing housing stock is a long term fix. It is not, it is just pandering to a small subset of our population who want to buy houses in Auckland below the market rate.
The long term fix is a combination of limiting the rate of growth and increasing the housing stock.
It will mean if people want to live in Auckland that they’re unlikely to get their 1.4 acre dream home, but that’s the trade-off they have to make for choosing Auckland.
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May 20, 2014 10:45am
hj

Peter Hitchen with Labour MP Chris Bryant on on Andrew Neil’s BBC programme.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQaougVHK1g
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May 20, 2014 10:55am
calendar girl

Judith @ 9:58am – “Almost suddenly, the means to achieve that [home ownership] has changed, and no longer is it possible for many Kiwis to meet that sign of respectability. The ideology hasn’t caught up with the means – and suddenly we have hoards of kiwis quite literally in shock – many having to give up the one thing they have been told they should aspire to their whole lives.”

What hasn’t changed, Judith, is the freedom and ability (or otherwise) of most young people to earn decent money and to save for their own home. Sadly, your post does not touch on that element, concentrating solely on adverse market forces.

When we saved for our first home, we had no electronic gadgets or phone accounts, overseas holidays, meals out several times a week, takeaways as a default meal option, espresso coffees four times a day during working hours, instant credit card purchasing, or financially-suffocating tastes in fashion clothing and entertainment. It was tough then to get into a first home, as it is now. It wasn’t “the good old days” (my term) of home ownership, rather it was a time of greater commitment to the objective of securing one’s first home, and a time when personal discipline and dedication played a much greater part in achieving that end.

Why shouldn’t “home ownership (be) a defining point of success”, along with others like educational, sporting or cultural achievements, promotion in one’s workplace, running one’s own business, raising a family successfully …… etc?

Where I think first-home buyers do have a legitimate concern, however, is the (apparent) proportion of housing stock being purchased by non-residents, or by those who make up growing volumes of immigrants. These distortional macro-economic and demographic factors tend at present to be disregarded, potentially to New Zealand’s ultimate cost. There would be an impact on housing stock asset values of attempting to ring-fence some of that activity, but achieving a reasonable balance in a less-distorted market should be seen as a priority.
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May 20, 2014 10:58am
RightNow

@Calendar girl “Where I think first-home buyers do have a legitimate concern, however, is the (apparent) proportion of housing stock being purchased by non-residents, or by those who make up growing volumes of immigrants.”

We’re all immigrants or descended from immigrants. The proportion of house sales to immigrants is probably at the lowest it’s been since the 19th century.
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May 20, 2014 11:10am
griffith

colville
bullshit
wankers in the trades are ripping us of whole sale
.
Call out the plumbers supply because they are to stupid or lazy to buy the required fittings for the job then charge the homeowner 50%+ more than fuckin retail for the bits. 100mm sewer pipe wholesale is less than 30bucks/ 6m not the $130+ ripoff captured industry commies charge same with the fittings 500%+ markup ..
The ripoff trades are just as bad as the unions with their protected industry organization more interested in keeping the ripoff going than doing the job. We have to get the work inspected anyway because the trades are funkin useless, that is all that should be required an inspection to code not job protection for overpriced laborers.
Drain laying is sticking pipes together with glue not a skilled job same with modern plumbing crimping with a 50 buck tool aint skilled you can teach a monkey to do it. Monkey jobs and should only be worth 18HR not funken 125hr+ like most pooh pushers charge.

Here comes the justification on how much the kit costs and how skilled you need to be
A kiddy can work out a 1/100 fall and how to vent is basic shit….. its all in the code and a half dead moron can do it to code without the protected capture of the work the pooh trades have and make us pay dearly for.
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May 20, 2014 11:13am
emmess

Sometimes I wonder if national are happy for prices to increase because their own property portfolios are rocketing.

Some people have short memories
I remember the last Labour government and their media mates used to always boast about rising house prices and how that it made people ‘feel richer’.
Hypocrisy much?
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May 20, 2014 11:15am
dime

The Economy seems to be a lot better than this time last year.

My sales for April/May are up 40%! Cant argue with that.
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May 20, 2014 11:18am
Colville

Griff.
1 – You are a dick.
2 –
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May 20, 2014 11:26am
wreck1080

@rightnow: This shit is getting stupid. Rising house prices are a direct result of supply and demand.

Your thinking is way too simplistic.

Yes, house prices are a result of supply/demand. You seem to imply the government has no control over those factors.

They do.

Firstly, look at the prices of housing materials. A simple 4×2 costs 4 times the price in NZ over the US. Plasterboard costs are double price and is thinner than that used in the US. Kickbacks exist in the supplies industry, the govt needs to stop corrupt practice in the building supplies industry.

Immigration: Unbelievable the govt hasn’t temporarily reduced immigration during this price crisis (Highest prices in the world IS a crisis). Or, diverted immigration to other regions. You don’t live where you are told, you go home.

Next, land supply. I’m in favour of high density infrastructure (retail/commerical/recreation/housing) along rail corridors. 3 story terraced/semi detached type housing would dramatically increase pop. density. ). But until they get planning right, they have to release more land for development to compensate for historical bad planning.
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May 20, 2014 11:42am
RightNow

@wreck1080,

“Yes, house prices are a result of supply/demand. You seem to imply the government has no control over those factors.

They do.

Firstly, look at the prices of housing materials. A simple 4×2 costs 4 times the price in NZ over the US. Plasterboard costs are double price and is thinner than that used in the US. Kickbacks exist in the supplies industry, the govt needs to stop corrupt practice in the building supplies industry.”

Agreed. Didn’t the government just announce something to address this too?

Immigration: Unbelievable the govt hasn’t temporarily reduced immigration during this price crisis (Highest prices in the world IS a crisis). Or, diverted immigration to other regions. You don’t live where you are told, you go home.

Perhaps there could be some mechanism to push immigrants to designated regions, but I don’t really believe that immigrants are any more to blame now for rising house prices than they ever were in the last 150 years or so. At some point your ancestors immigrated to NZ and bought property. What makes it different now is that everyone seems to want to be in Auckland. The house your ancestors bought relatively cheaply wasn’t in a city with over 1 million people in it. If people want a cheap house now there’s thousands of them, just not in our most densely populated areas.

Next, land supply. I’m in favour of high density infrastructure (retail/commerical/recreation/housing) along rail corridors. 3 story terraced/semi detached type housing would dramatically increase pop. density. ). But until they get planning right, they have to release more land for development to compensate for historical bad planning.

I’ve got no problem with that. I would suggest that in the case of Auckland there has been a deliberate restriction by local government for the purpose of limiting the rate of growth of Auckland to manageable levels.
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May 20, 2014 12:03pm
stephieboy

EAD, I think that concealing the shooting down of MH370 would be much too difficult as these historical examples demonstrate.
Especially am thinking of Korean Flights 902, 007 and Iran Air Flight 655,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_airliner_shootdown_incidents

You may wish to consider these debunking of MH 370 Conspiracy theories ,

http://www.snopes.com/politics/conspiracy/malaysiapicture.asp
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May 20, 2014 12:11pm
MT_Tinman

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/better-business/10063184/Telecom-pinged-for-TV-throwing-ad

I draw your attention to the Stuff.co.nz story.

My first reaction was “How fucking pathetic”, my second one of anger when I realised I’m paying for the fuckwits giving legitimacy to this type of complaint instead of telling the whinging bastards to grow up and get a bloody life.

I object – strenuously!
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May 20, 2014 12:33pm
griffith

colville…..
No argument just that 😆 protect your job and your profits and fuck the public and the free market.
Just another ripoff pooh pusher… you call your self a right winger when you are just as bad as another other bunch of commie unionist who capture an industry and rip off the public.

As top the price of land by citys
agriculture land is around $2500hectear colville The price is high not because of the restriction of actual supply but because of land banking and zoning restrictions. how much would YOU lose if we done away with zoning tomorrow? same as if we stopped the plumbers and drain layers monopoly…. lots and lots I bet.

*colville is not only a pooh pusher he is also a ripoff developer… you now the sort that made all those leaky homes that where fully certified by branz with a safe and effective 50year cladding system and kiln dried framing When even a retarded noddy could see the problem coming of wet hygroscopic cladding and no treatment in the timber,. Screw the public take the money.
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May 20, 2014 12:36pm
stephieboy

Christopher Hitchens nails an apologist for Islam and Jihad,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9F8vgwBiKl0
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May 20, 2014 12:38pm
kowtow

milkie doesn’t like being shown up for the cultural marxist that he is.

bzzzz
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May 20, 2014 12:43pm
mikenmild

Just makes me LOL whenever you use the term as an epithet with no context. Makes you sound like Redbaiter.
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May 20, 2014 12:53pm
Don the Kiwi

“……you are just as bad as another other bunch of commie unionist who capture an industry and rip off the public….”

Is griffith becoming the new Redbaiter? perhaps a clone ?

Imitation is the highest form of praise……….. ;-).
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May 20, 2014 12:58pm
Ashley Schaeffer

MT_Tinman (2,860 comments) says:

May 20th, 2014 at 12:33 pm
http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/better-business/10063184/Telecom-pinged-for-TV-throwing-ad

I draw your attention to the Stuff.co.nz story.

My first reaction was “How fucking pathetic”, my second one of anger when I realised I’m paying for the fuckwits giving legitimacy to this type of complaint instead of telling the whinging bastards to grow up and get a bloody life.

I object – strenuously!

Fucking retarded decision from the ASA. If this decision was carried over into regular programming, there would be nothing left worth watching. The complainant should seek some help with their mental issues.
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May 20, 2014 1:10pm
Colville

Griff.
I am not now nor have I ever stooped so low as to be a plumber.

agriculture land is around $2500hectear colville

What? Where? I want to buy that land!

Even near here in Smalltown Palmy decent agri land is above $100K / Ha. If its capable of being a dairy runoff its $50K/Ha and that would be 20 kms from town services.

But you are telling me that flat land adjacent to a city can be had for $1000 a acre? Show me a link to a farm forsale.
Just one.
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May 20, 2014 1:19pm
griffith

sorry I am totally wrong and its around $8,000hectare north of Auckland away from the effects of council zoning.
this is the price that is on top of the minimum for a block in the area
ie to buy the first section no matter how small will cost X then the price of the actual per hector land kicks in

here is a small rural block in waipu on trade me.
http://www.trademe.co.nz/property/rural/auction-305807055.htm
$244,000 for 1.44 hectores
similar land yet large block
http://www.trademe.co.nz/property/rural/auction-634262315.htm
52.83 hectares $650,000

price of agricultural land per hector is taken as the large block price minus the section price divided by hectors That gives the actual price you pay for the agricultural land per hector.
rounded for convenience….
$650,000 minus $250,000 = $400,000 for 50 hectors = $8000 per hector.
The section price is an effect of zoning on land value as well.

There was an ex dairy farm further north requiring some work that I tried to talk the partner into for less than $2500hector This is was I was thinking about for my original figure.
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May 20, 2014 2:00pm
kowtow

There must be a mistake here,mosques, as we all know are centres of learning and spiritual interests relating to the religion of peace…….

…….second case today!Different country ,same problem. Politicians must realise this ,but refuse to connect the dots.That would be “racist” or some human rights infringement or other.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/10841236/Abu-Hamza-trial-The-hate-preacher-of-Finsbury-Park-who-tried-to-plead-he-was-a-friend-of-the-West.html
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May 20, 2014 2:03pm
Colville

Griff.
Your farm “adjacent” to a city is about 100 kms away?
That is a long way for your favourite poopusher to pipe your shit!
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May 20, 2014 2:17pm
griffith

Auckland is not the wops
some jafas have a slightly different outlook on distance now
The “suburbs” are now virtually from warkworth to pukekohe
Many of my neighbors daily commute from where I am a 100kms drive sw from the city center.
karaka is now a suburb as is clevedon and north the reality is similar many living in warkworth matakana and Leigh commuting in rush hour traffic the whole way to work daily.

Whangarei environs prices are similar to waipu reasonably close to town.
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May 20, 2014 2:52pm
mikenmild

Pretty quiet GD today.
Abortion – murder or a woman’s right to choose?
Gay marriage – ban it or make compulsory?
Climate change – panic or don’t worry?
Capital punishment – yes or no?
Ukraine or Russia?
Islam – religion or terrorist cult?
Government – good or bad?
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May 20, 2014 3:41pm
Longknives

Carlos at 8:16am- I notice the silence from the Muslim apologists has been deafening today..
“Jihad” in Avondale- Well who would have guessed it?…
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May 20, 2014 3:43pm
griffith

😆 Griff is the new redblather Griff is a radical greenie.

Griff is an individual.

Trys to Think for himself from the information he independently researches and attempts to critically asses to the best of his ability….. not a blind follower of right, left, national, the greens, the MSM or any other grouping …..
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May 20, 2014 3:48pm
mikenmild

Keep it that way Griff. Rationality is the best option.
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May 20, 2014 4:10pm
Manolo

UT should be asked to intervene to calm his peaceful and enlightened “brothers”.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11257805

A mosque in Auckland has been shut down indefinitely following violent attacks and the declaration of jihad, or holy war, against private security staff hired to guard the premises.

Bill Frost, who leads the Global Security Intelligence team at the Avondale Islamic Centre, was assaulted twice on Sunday and said he feared for his life and the safety of his family after one worshipper threatened him with jihad.
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May 20, 2014 4:33pm
stephieboy

Is the Avondale Islamic Center the one kea teaches at.?
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May 20, 2014 4:45pm
Tauhei Notts

I got my Labour Party newsletter.
Could somebody please tell them that the southern North Island area is named Wairarapa.
It is not Waiarapa!
Sufficient reason to open a lovely Martinborough Pinot Noir.
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May 20, 2014 4:51pm
nasska

Don’t worry Tauhei. After their coming drubbing in September the pig ignorant bastards won’t have any reason to use the word for another three years. 🙂
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May 20, 2014 4:59pm
mikenmild

You’ll need a drink after you watch Winston ink his coalition deal with John Key…
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May 20, 2014 5:03pm
nasska

Hemlock? 🙂
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May 20, 2014 5:05pm
igm

mikenwimp: Must have been dole day, you make less sense than usual . . . Naenae Hotel must be full.
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May 20, 2014 5:13pm
SPC

So Peters owns part of a horse, but did not declare it.
And Key also owns part of a horse, but did not declare it.

Is it the same horse and is it called National First or First National? Who owns the head and who owns the …
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May 20, 2014 5:40pm
stigie

Been a dull day all round chaps, went down to the shed, kicked the tyres on the Fergie and walked home !~
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May 20, 2014 5:42pm
Odakyu-sen

“We are witnessing the death of the “west”.Slow, but steady.”

I don’t know about that.

We (including India, North Asia and Japan) will prevail because we choose “life.”

They choose “death.”

Ultimately, they shall have their wish.
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May 20, 2014 5:46pm
griffith

that all stigie
I pulled the half shafts out on one of my fergys just now had to do it with the wheels on.
whacked a knuckle really good trying to get the wheel nuts off with a cold chisel.
They are un useable anyway ….to rusty to save
Tomorrow its undo the wheel nuts with an angle grinder. 😆
Good and bad.
good is the drums are mint with no lips so no wear A major problem at $140 each for new ones
bad is the shoes have been soaking in oil for a couple of decades Don’t think I will get away with roasting in the oven to get the oil off so its the junk pile for 2sets of shoes with plenty of meat that or a reline kit.

This morning it was mow the lawns… the ride on died of rusty deck a couple of years ago and the push mower wheel bearing sized sold so they haven’t been done for four months.
last night my brother turned up with a ride on the same model with a minor problem or two.
so its been fixing the “new” one as I mow and the problems show up.
Swapped the axles,both belts, all four tires n wheels,the battery cables and the steering assembly between the two now its going like a rocket mowed the whole home block five times once on each height setting.
The mower swallowed a meter of number eight hidden in the long grass which wound around the blade spindle roasting the belt so grabbed the end of wire to remove and now have a number eight wire brand on my hand… it was red hot from the friction. 😆

All in all an interesting and constructive day at the Griff ranch.
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May 20, 2014 6:16pm
goldnkiwi

Isn’t it better to have anonymous donations, then no one can ‘call’ in any favours as there is no knowledge. Why aren’t all donations anonymous regardless of amount? In the Bank’s case clearly no favours were promised, which is perfectly correct, despite what the donor assumed as none were delivered. I think it a sensible thing to do, to split it up, so there is no knowledge or need for acknowledgement.

If in this case, the donor was apparently upset at the suggestion of anonymity, then surely it is only reasonable that the recipient might expect said donation to not be forthcoming. Why should the donor want the credit of the donation? Make all donations anonymous.
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May 20, 2014 6:29pm
nasska

….” Make all donations anonymous.”…..

No way! If politicians are bought I want to know who owns them.
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May 20, 2014 6:35pm
mikenmild

How do we know that no favours were promised? No one involved would be likely to admit it. And didn’t Banks say something to Dotcom along the lines of her could be more useful to him if the donation were anonymous?
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May 20, 2014 6:36pm
goldnkiwi

Who says Banks said that?
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May 20, 2014 6:52pm
SPC

What do buildings owned by Christians in East Jerusalem and China have common.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11258341
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May 20, 2014 6:59pm
goldnkiwi

Then make no donations anonymous. Either way no exceptions, regardless of amount.
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May 20, 2014 7:01pm
nickb

Only 1 comment on Cairns and the fixing saga so far.

Vincent’s wife has corroborated his and McCullum’s version of events, and apparently 3 more ex-cricketers/officials waiting in the wings also supporting their version.

If there is no truth to their version of events this is some mighty large conspiracy…
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May 20, 2014 7:21pm
Sidey

nickb,

wait for it, wait for it…..

UT will be along shortly with evidence that all the cricketers took turns piloting MH370 as Elvis, JFK & Jim Morrison needed a rest.
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May 20, 2014 7:28pm
SPC

What did Kea do this time?
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May 20, 2014 7:43pm
martinh

Well i watched Campbell live
Seems pretty obvious that Key is Mr Obamas bitch but Key loves it, what a sell out Key is.
I wonder who he is bitch for that hes selling us out to foreign speculators as well
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May 20, 2014 7:45pm
Jack5

Leftist Campbell’s dreary piece on TV3 tonight about the GSCB must take the record for the most boring piece of TV in NZ for years!

It took us through a long trail of meetings and dates but there was nothing at the end.

To pinch from Shakespeare’s Macbeth it was:

… a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing…

A conspiracy theorist’s fantasy, best screened after midnight to drive insomniacs back to bed for the more interesting pastime of counting sheep.

Looks like it’s back to TV1 for its much improved Mark 2 show at 6.30. At least there’s often a laugh there.
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May 20, 2014 7:46pm
martinh

Jack5
Did you not pick up that their were all these meeting in the days before the dotcom raid yet Key said he had never known about Dotcom until after the raid.
Are you really that gullible? You really think that the FBI and the head of US security were here and had meetings with Key and Hollywoods number one target by the Obama administration wasnt discussed?
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May 20, 2014 7:50pm
Southern Raider

I was about to say another night another Campbell Live bet up on National.

Why don’t they do a piece about Avondale Islamic Centre and the jihadists taking over?
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May 20, 2014 7:52pm
martinh

Southern Raider
Yeah maybe they will but it seems you think it beat him up. I thought so too. I think you would have to be the most naive person to believe Key over this. And the moment a PM has the perception of bullshitting his careers over.

A good night for Joyce this was, thank god Judith has being put in her place
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May 20, 2014 7:53pm
griffith

kea
4 month ban … must have been something.
excessive trolling?
… back 20 September.

I am ten from two weeks…..
Will have a holiday pretty soon if I don’t mend my evil ways.
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May 20, 2014 7:57pm
martinh

Cant be as bad as what winston said today
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May 20, 2014 7:59pm
Don the Kiwi

Had another chunk cut out of my face today – basal cell carcinoma. At this rate all I’l have left is a nose, eyes, a balding head
and a magnificent body 😉
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May 20, 2014 8:08pm
griffith

Sad to hear… hope they got it all don.
Bust out and live buddy you can always repent at the last moment. only the good….
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May 20, 2014 8:12pm
Don the Kiwi

Shit o dear griff,

So Kea has gone again – that’ll reduce the entertainment value by 30%

For God’s sake, keep your attacks to a minimum Griff. Would hate to see you go too – GD would be no fun at all. 🙂

Liked you story about the Fergie – keep that up and DPF will cancel your demerits 🙂
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May 20, 2014 8:12pm
nasska

Lisa, a strikingly beautiful young Blonde, sat across the table
from William, in a fancy restaurant. She smiled as William
finished proposing to her.

“I’m not sure, let me think about it.” she answered.

William was crushed but kept his composure. After dinner they
went to her place. The mood was romantic and William was eager to
make love to Lisa.

She stopped him and said, “Before we get married or even make
love, I want you to buy me something.”

“Sure my love, you name it. A car, a pearl necklace, diamond
earrings, you name it.”

“I want a solid gold Boy Scout knife.”

Stunned, William asked, “But why? I can buy you anything you
want. Why must it be a solid gold Boy Scout knife?”

“I can’t tell you, but I won’t make love to you until I get one.”

William searched high and low but couldn’t find such a knife.
Desperate, he had a jeweller make one for him.

The next time they met at her place for a romantic evening, he
again suggested they make love. Again she said she couldn’t
without first receiving the solid gold Boy Scout knife.

With a smile he handed her a small gift wrapped box.

She carefully opened it and saw the knife. They went off to the
bedroom where she opened a large hope chest at the foot of her
bed. She placed the knife inside, but not before William saw the
contents of the hope chest. It was filled with solid gold Boy
Scout knifes.

“What’s this? Why did you ask me for a gold knife when you
already have so many of them?”

“I can’t tell you” she replied.

After several minutes of badgering she finally relented and said

“Someday I will be older. My hair will turn grey, my face will
start to get wrinkles and my beauty will fade. Who will want me
then?
But, do you know what a Boy Scout would do for one of these
knives?”
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May 20, 2014 8:16pm
Don the Kiwi

Thanks griff.

I’ve done pretty well in my life so far.
Turn 72 next Monday – plenty of living to do yet brother 🙂
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May 20, 2014 8:24pm
Johnboy

Has Kea gone again? Just when I was really getting to like him!! 🙂
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May 20, 2014 8:29pm
Johnboy

Thank your Catholic God you were never a nudist Don!

Think of what they would be cutting off next! 🙂
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May 20, 2014 8:31pm
Judith

@ Johnboy (13,665 comments) says:
May 20th, 2014 at 8:29 pm

Perhaps that’s why he went … ?

What did he say this time – must have really upset someone!
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May 20, 2014 8:31pm
kowtow

DTK have a good one on Monday.

Kea gone again? Details anyone.

Campbell the commie doing a job on Key and the secret services,Campy was bitching the gummint wouldn’t talk.FFS. It is an intelligence agency why would they talk?

Anyway,far as I’m concerned we need to be close with the other Anglo saxons.Keep it up Mr Key, on this you’re spot on.
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May 20, 2014 8:33pm
UglyTruth

UT should be asked to intervene to calm his peaceful and enlightened “brothers”.

You’re such a dick, Manolo.

Those Salafists are not enlightened and they are obviously not peaceful. It’s not their land, they can stick their false jihad up their collective arse and sort their shit out IMHO. Tradition justifies nothing.
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May 20, 2014 8:39pm
nasska

….”What did he say this time – must have really upset someone!”…..

Buggered if I know Judith. I’ve been back through his comments for the past few days but I can’t find anything.

Perhaps someone can give us a reference.
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May 20, 2014 8:39pm
Judith

@ nasska (9,878 comments) says:
May 20th, 2014 at 8:39 pm

Hmmm, sounds ominous, perhaps we need a seance and call upon the spirits to tell us?

I did check out the demerits chart to see if it was right – Jeez you’re a bit of a goody good Nasska, how come you’ve only got 20 points???
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May 20, 2014 8:46pm
nasska

If only you could see my halo reflect the sun Judith.

I wouldn’t have those 20 points if I hadn’t suggested a full body & face wax for one of the female Green MPs. 🙂
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May 20, 2014 8:49pm
griffith

Pretty sad commentator if I only get up ticks for playing with old tractors don.
Mind you I suppose it proves I am more than an agw obsessed Wingnut.
Old tractor obsessed oil covered AGW Wingnut.
always liked being a contradiction.
Used to laugh at management when they freaked with the knowledge the nasty commie shop steward was a long time Act member and far right winger.
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May 20, 2014 8:52pm
Judith

@ nasska (9,879 comments) says:
May 20th, 2014 at 8:49 pm

LOL … If I wasn’t a lady I would ask you how you knew she needed a ‘full body’ wax. But being that I am, I won’t!

I am interested in the shining halo though… you aren’t responsible for this global warming that we may, or may not be experiencing, are you? Halos can generate a lot of heat.
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May 20, 2014 8:56pm

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