General Debate 16 May 2014

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duggledog

Want to give yourself a fright?

Go to: yourtaxtracker.co.nz, enter your annual income and see where it goes.

33% of mine goes to social welfare, about half of that to OAP’s
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May 16, 2014 8:03am
igm

Can’t understand how Watkins and Small came to their conclusions in the Fairfax rags this morning. It appears that Little and his union henchmen must have pulled some strings. It can be expected from Newstalkzb and Radio NZ, but what the hell do these leeching lefties expect taxpayers to give them now?
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May 16, 2014 8:03am
hj

“you can’t make much difference to migration numbers ” Bill English

The housing boom has meant good profits for many New Zealand companies supplying
materials and building services, but it implies investors would rather invest in their country’s
homes rather than its businesses (Bollard 2005). The high returns for property has attracted
finance and reduced the capital available for productive investment (Moody, 2006). The
consequence is investment is going in to industries with limited capacity to increase per capita
incomes. For example, real estate and building are domestically bound and do not have the
market potential of export industries. They also have less opportunity to increase productivity
through new processes and products. The irony is, as these sectors grow, they have incurred
skills shortages which in turn has increased demand for skilled immigrants. The Department
of Statistics ‘Long Term Skill Shortage List’ of 28/3/2006 includes carpenter/joiner, plumber,
electricians, fitter and turners, fitter welders; all indicative of a nation building its
construction/property sector.
There is a danger that a sector of the economy is being augmented that is totally reliant on a
small domestic economy. Not only do these industries have limited potential for per-capita
growth but ‘deriving growth via factor inputs such as labour places pressure on infrastructure
such as transport and land supply, and ultimately have a further negative impact on growth
(ARC 2005). Finally, as the sector gets larger, it gains in lobbying/political strength and can
lobby for immigration regardless if it is the best interests of the economy as a whole. This
could be seen in Canada where the development industry has lobbied hard for high sustained
immigration levels (Ley and Tutchener 2001).

Dr Greg Clydesdale Growing Pains

National used the more money for families thing to cover the hole.
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May 16, 2014 8:04am
Pete George

There’s no way of knowing if the budget is an election winner for National (it won’t harm their chances and will probably enhance them) but as a smart, sensible, pragmatic budget that appears to care for families it has to be a winner for National for the momen

National have crafted a crafty budget and are the big winners, with Dunne picking up some of the glory.

It won’t win the election but it will make it harder for Labour and Greens to win. They were practising losing speeches yesterday.

They can still win the election, but they have to start looking like potential winners.

Yesterday John Key and Bill English looked like they were on the podium already. People like voting for winners, not whiners.

Budget winners and whiners
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May 16, 2014 8:06am
hj

What Pete George said crafty. Machiavellian in fact.
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May 16, 2014 8:10am
hj

Bent.
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May 16, 2014 8:16am
igm

Some goon Teo-Sherrell, a raging Greenie, wants to increase Horizons’ rates even more. This being an example of the hopeless leeches that get elected to councils when losers get a vote. Local body elections must be the domain of principal ratepayers only, or we will be taken over by fiscally dyslexic bludgers. Look at the outcomes in Auckland, Wellington and Christchurch? Poor bloody ratepayers.
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May 16, 2014 8:24am
hj

Radio NZ “unreservedly apologises to “—“. 😉
Surley the public could be better served than paying $150,000 pa to hear Horans opinions?
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May 16, 2014 8:25am
stigie

That budget had the left on the ropes, staggering and struggling for air.

A very sensible budget from Bill English where Labour have no room to move !~
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May 16, 2014 8:35am
doggone7

When newstalkzb is accused/complimented of being leftist, with Leighton Smith/Mike Hosking/ etc. on board as vehement as ever, it is probably fair to think the compass has been discombobulated. Or at least the holder of it has reached that state.
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May 16, 2014 8:35am
Elaycee

hj: Surley the public could be better served than paying $150,000 pa to hear Horans opinions?

Actually, Horan has the same rights to speak as every other member in the house. And he is there because of the number of numpties who voted for the Peters outfit last Election….

Yeah, I know…. I can’t understand it either. 😯
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May 16, 2014 8:36am
Paulus

What a pity Guyon Espiner is this morning – he was pathetic trying to show his true socialist colours.

It was funny to listen to his reverse questions beginning “Don’t you think……” to find that the people he was trying to influence said the opposite of what he was trying to get them to say. Rather sad really as I am sure he is very well paid.

Mind you his voice pitch is too high – he need lessons – should try Linda Clark as she obviously has time on her hands, and she can teach him to use his voice properly – forgetting what she says though.

I really think that despite his best intentions his use of the language is very poor – I am sure he is educated, but not in the use of English language.

Susi Ferguson is better but she goes off at a tangent too often trying to put her views together. Susi – stick to the subject.
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May 16, 2014 8:38am
ShawnLH

“Mind you his voice pitch is too high”

That’s because he is a Lefty girly-man. 😉
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May 16, 2014 8:44am
ShawnLH

After his appalling performance and his failure to deliver the hit he promised, I wonder if NZF is now a spent force?
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May 16, 2014 8:56am
EAD

Despite all the rhetoric, the facts still speak for themselves – The Government at the top of the economic cycle is still borrowing money but it is now down to $75 million a week, less than the $110 million a week last year. With all these extra lollie scrambles announced, they’ve out-socialised the socialists on the left and as a result they’ve got no-where to go. Good politics but bad for the country as we will continue to borrow money we haven’t got on things we can’t afford.

And just look at the rhetoric used
– $10b for early childhood and schools but an “industry-body” claims it is still not enough
– efforts to cut long term welfare “boosted”….by spending another $100m
– Transport loses out…….because it doesn’t get any extra money.

Where does all this money to provide all these “boosts” come from? Well of course it will come from the wealth producers most likely by inflation and it will most likely go into more bureaucrats.

Just imagine if the media changed it’ rhetoric – instead of providing a “boost” to whatever boondoogle the government throws our money at, it described what the process really is as the government actually doesn’t have any money.

Imagine if describing cutting taxes as being a “cost to the government” the media described the process as “letting tax-payers keep more of their hard earned money”

Imagine if the media asked whenever something goes wrong, rather than “what should the government do” it asked, “how can the government get out of the way”.

If that Statist media mindset and Orwellian rhetoric was changed we may actually move someway towards being one of the most “free” countries in the world which all these studies keep telling us we are supposed to be.

http://dollarvigilante.com/blog/2014/5/15/russia-and-china-move-to-mark-end-of-dollar-era.html
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May 16, 2014 8:59am
griffith

Case and effect

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11255679

Police cite road deaths to oppose cannabis law reform

The same logic would have alcohol banned immediately Alcohol is responsible for at least 25% of all road deaths and probably far more from consumption days before that doesn’t show in a simple blood test. .

Having cannabis in your system is not proof that cannabis causes road accidents.
It shows up in regular users weeks after any effect has worn off. unlike alcohol which will not show up after a day even thought a person is still quantifiable impaired

That the police continue to oppose the reform of cannabis laws that criminalize a large percentage of the population by this sort of tactics is a distortion of our law making process. The police involved should be censured or sacked it is not the polices role to set the law only to enforce it.

We create more harm than we prevent with the stupid laws that ignore the Known harms of legally available recreational drugs yet keep less harmful options illegal.

The same processes should be used to evaluate all drugs ether illegal or legal without the present bias towards the drugs of choice for the majority. Prohibition didn’t work for alcohol it also fails to work for cannabis.

http://guardianlv.com/2014/05/colorado-marijuana-sales-up-crime-down/

Five months ago, Colorado made history by being the first state in the US to legalize the possession of small amounts of marijuana. Opponents were worried that this decision would cause an increase in crime rates, but as sales of marijuana have been increasing, instances of crime have actually gone down in the state.
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May 16, 2014 9:02am
igm

ShawnLH: Wasn’t Espiner a close friend of girlie boy Hughes?
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May 16, 2014 9:05am
Elaycee

igm: Wasn’t Espiner a close friend of girlie boy Hughes?

You could say that…..

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10783684
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May 16, 2014 9:09am
stigie

Well said Griff, but you know you will get heaps of down ticks !~
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May 16, 2014 9:09am
Judith

@ Elaycee (4,138 comments) says:
May 16th, 2014 at 8:36 am

Horan got there as part of the list – not because anyone particularly voted for him as such (although I’m sure there were probably some that voted NZ1 because they liked him – even if it was just his mother).

The fact remains, should a list MP, when expelled or leaves the party on whose list they appear, continue to be an MP. I don’t think so, and that goes for all parties. Unless they have won a seat outright, therefore demonstrating that sufficient members of the electorate want them, then they should not be able to continue to hold a seat.

I’m not sure if it is possible, but if we have to re-elect for individual electorates, perhaps there is some way we can do the same in these circumstances – even if it is just a mail or internet vote.
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May 16, 2014 9:11am
ShawnLH

“Well of course it will come from the wealth producers most likely by inflation and it will most likely go into more bureaucrats.”

It’s not going to go into more bureaucrats. That’s a silly statement EAD.

It;s actually going back into the hands of taxpayers, mostly middle NZ with families, who have born the brunt of the needed belt tightening as a result of the GFC. And National has signaled more tax cuts to come during the election campaign.

And they are doing this in a fiscally prudent way that does not encourage out of control inflation.
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May 16, 2014 9:12am
calendar girl

EAD: “Transport loses out…….because it doesn’t get any extra money.”

Aside from a $375m interest-free loan for Auckland roading?
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May 16, 2014 9:12am
hj

@ Pete George
The handout mentality didn’t win anything from the election. Many will applaud that.
….
are you saying immigration policy isn’t a hand out (when combined with infrastructure funding and subsidising development levys)?
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May 16, 2014 9:15am
Ashley Schaeffer

http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/africa/10051533/Woman-faces-death-sentence-over-faith

I’m thinking of kicking off some hashtag activism to raise awareness of this woman’s plight. How about…

#muslimsaremental
#shariaisshitty
#recolonisesudan

Actually, I think there a quite a few places that could do with recolonising because, let’s face it, they’re just too damn backwards feral to manage their own affairs.
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May 16, 2014 9:15am
ShawnLH

The post-budget whining from the libertarians has reminded me why I ditched that philosophy. Unrealistic, purist ideology does not win elections, and would consign the Right to permanent powerlessness, handing the country over to a Labour/Green/Mana nightmare.

Conservative gov should be conservative, not radical.

Would I like to see more spending cuts and more tax cuts? Hell yes. But we have to get there slowly, in a way that takes middle NZ with us.
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May 16, 2014 9:16am
Judith

@ stigie (673 comments) says:
May 16th, 2014 at 8:35 am

I don’t think the budget has left the ‘left’ struggling for air.

In fact, I think they ALL over-looked a very big part of the electorate – the biggest group of voters there is and that is the baby boomers. Who, apart from concerns for their own children, and grandchildren have concerns of aged health care etc.

But of more concern is the group of baby boomers that are at the younger end of the cohort. These Boomers are in their 50’s and still have at least 15 years of work ahead of them. BUT, many are finding it difficult to get work. Prevented by govt moves from retraining, many of them are faced with years of unemployment or forced to do work that makes them feel useless and ignored.

None of the parties addressed the concerns of this large group of voters – nothing targeted them in particular – as one said to me last night – its like they already have us in the grave – BIG mistake, huge mistake to ignore the biggest voter group, but an even bigger mistake to isolate them and make them feel useless and ignored.

So there is room/ ‘air’ and the question is, who will supply the oxygen tanks quick enough to capture these votes …
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May 16, 2014 9:20am
griffith

Conservative is not the only direction on the right .
I am strongly right wing have some times even been labeled far right yet are not a conservative by any stretch.

http://www.politicalcompass.org/

There’s abundant evidence for the need of it. The old one-dimensional categories of ‘right’ and ‘left’, established for the seating arrangement of the French National Assembly of 1789, are overly simplistic for today’s complex political landscape. For example, who are the ‘conservatives’ in today’s Russia? Are they the unreconstructed Stalinists, or the reformers who have adopted the right-wing views of conservatives like Margaret Thatcher ?
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May 16, 2014 9:27am
J Bloggs

Griff: The real reason that the lawmakers and enforcers are not going to tackle alcohol in the same way they do cannabis is that they can’t (alcohol industry lobbying is a red herring). Alcohol is just too easy to make in your kitchen. You can get the instructions off the internet to make a still, or homebrew. Everything you need to make alcohol can be found in your local supermarket. If alcohol was as hard to manufacture/acquire as class 1 narcotics, believe me, it would be in that category with them. But the lawmakers (as shown by the US attempt at prohibition) recognise that alcohol is just too easy to make, rendering prohibition useless. So they have to walk that line around trying to control it enough without being so restrictive that making alcohol yourself becomes an attractive option.

Cannabis and tobacco are substantially harder to acquire and grow in NZ, hence the tighter/tougher action against those substances.
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May 16, 2014 9:28am
EAD

@ calendar girl

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/headlines.cfm?c_id=280

Headline screams out “PUBLIC TRANSPORT LOSES OUT”

subheadline reads “Auckland motorways have been paved with gold in the Budget, while not an extra cent has gone to public transport”

I guess my point was on the way language is used to manipulate the readership and reinforce a particular Statist philosophy – to imply that public transport is “losing out” (by having funding held flat) entrenches the mindset that only endlessly increasing spending by government is good thing and that providing “services” (I use that word loosely) cheaper and more efficiently is bad.
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May 16, 2014 9:30am
Judith

Sorry, meant to include this link as supporting information for above post on BB in the workforce.

http://www.eeotrust.org.nz/content/docs/reports/business_benefits/New%20Zealands%20changing%20age%20profile.pdf
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May 16, 2014 9:37am
Scott

Once more from the religion of peace – “A Muslim-by-birth Sudanese woman who married a Christian man has been sentenced to death after she refused to recant her Christian faith, her lawyer says.”

http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/africa/10051533/Woman-faces-death-sentence-over-faith
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May 16, 2014 9:39am
flipper

ShawnLH (2,509 comments) says:

May 16th, 2014 at 8:56 am

After his appalling performance and his failure to deliver the
******

Yes, Peters is a spent force.
Sad to say that the only presentable MP they delivered ion 2011 was Horan. In saying that I make no comment on his gambling habit(s). But think about that sorry lot as they sit in the House watching an inebriated leader. There was a time when the moist outrageous drunk ever to sit in Parliament was a toss-up between Les Munro (Nats) and John Brooks (Lab.), but no more. Either peters is suffering from perpetual intoxication or the effects of a mini stoke.
The Greens, co led by a whining Australian communist and a McGillicuddy Serious candidate. They actually do present better – until they open their mouths and speak on matters of which they know nothing. On the other hand, apart from a would be “fashion plate”, the Green females are a an advance on Labour whose collection of female grunts almost defies adequate description.

But we hear this week (was news to me, anyway) that Claudette Hauiti a bottom of the well Nat lister had employed her “wife” of eight years , Nadine. Hauiti certainly rivals the worst of the petersparty2 females and l,abour’s dragons. Not one has done anything to enhance the Parliament.
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May 16, 2014 9:39am
griffith

😆
yip its real hard to chuck a hand full of seeds in the garden
It a weed that the police at one time spread in the north by confiscating crops with choppers.
It still grows wild in places if the possums don’t eat it first.
Then the real hard part you dry it……. lay it on news paper somewhere for a week or so to dry… job done..roll and smoke total input for out-door is about five minutes a plant…

it’s about the money lots of dirty money provides lots of lobbying .

The growers and sellers of pot are making a killing because its illegal You will not get the mongrel mob or the black power trying to get it legalized it would destroy their income and the networks they use to sell stolen goods and harder drugs.

Chatting to people in the former synthetic shops the overwhelming good point about synthetics was not having to associate with the crims to source your recreational drug.
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May 16, 2014 9:41am
Longknives

Another day, Another drug-addled Stoner telling us that Cannabis is the wonder-drug and doesn’t cause road accidents etc..
For fuck’s sake guys you would do the ‘Decriminalisation’ movement a huge service if you just stopped bullshitting!
*I couldn’t care less if Cannabis was decriminalised but I can’t stand all the lies spun by Potheads about their alleged ‘wonder drug’
“Cannabis is Harmless” “Cannabis has never caused any deaths” “Cannabis cures Cancer” etc etc all fucking bollocks!
Just tell the truth for once fellas- Cannabis is a drug..and (just like alcohol) it has some nasty consequences (flying a Hot Air Balloon into Power lines for example…)
Joe Public like me would have far more sympathy for your cause if you simply stopped bullshitting us about your beloved ‘Sacred Herb’…
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May 16, 2014 9:47am
ShawnLH

“I don’t think the budget has left the ‘left’ struggling for air.”

Judith, when it comes to Jk and the Nats, the only true part of that statement is “I don’t think”
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May 16, 2014 9:48am
Judith

@ griffith (968 comments) says:
May 16th, 2014 at 9:41 am

Legal highs were being mixed with illegal highs and resold on – catching the unaware who thought they were give being given a better cheaper/deal on the legal stuff. Once hooked on the product – the price goes up and by then they don’t care if its legal or not, they just want it.

Legal highs were also a gateway drug, perhaps even more so because of the ability to trap the vulnerable by the apparent legitimacy.

Scum dealers are great at adapting to circumstances. Many would make great business men if they used the same principles positively.
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May 16, 2014 9:55am
Komata

Judith @0920

Your comment about ‘Boomers being unable to find meaningful, worthwhile work’ is correct, and very frustrating, especially when it’s the ‘Bright young things’ (invariably, female), who are telling us that (although not directly – they wouldn’t dare). Degrees and ‘life experience’ are no longer considered attributes that are worthwhile, and, indeed, are frequently objects of derision when presented to ‘recruiters’, many of whom don’t have similar (or, indeed, any) qualifications themselves ( a minor detail, of course). Most of us in that group eventually ‘pull our heads in’ and go on living and economising. It’s what we have learnt to do. Unfortunately, the work situation is not going to change any time soon, but we still go on looking. What IS noticeable is that all the ‘responsible’ (albeit menial in some cases) jobs are now being done by ‘Boomers; evidently they are the only ones reliable enough to employ……

And as far as ‘oxygen’ is concerned, despite NZF’s evident success with some members of that generation, I suspect many ‘Boomers have been around long-enough and have sufficiently-long memories to be able to determine their ‘party of choice’, and to see the ‘bribes’ when they are presented for what they are. Although many may have been ‘radical’ in their younger years, with age and experience, ‘Conservatism’ (in its best sense), and ‘steady as she goes’, combined with fiscal prudence, tends to resonate with such people. It makes for a relatively easy choice.

It’s an interesting aspect which will get absolutely no MSM airtime. Thanks for airing it.
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May 16, 2014 9:57am
Judith

@ ShawnLH (2,514 comments) says:
May 16th, 2014 at 9:48 am

Personal attacks – great if you can also attack the essence of the opinion. I note however you seem unable to do that?
Are you saying that the BBers aren’t the biggest group of voters, or that the budget did cover their concerns about employment etc? If so, how so?
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May 16, 2014 9:58am
srylands

It has been interesting to watch the ACT Party Vote share stock on ipredict in recent weeks. It is now at 3.6%.

https://www.ipredict.co.nz/app.php?do=contract_detail&contract=VOTE.2014.ACT

I think that would translate to 5 MPs with an electorate seat.
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May 16, 2014 9:59am
Ross12

This was highlighted on W/O but I’ll link to the source. Very interesting comments by Karl du Fresne

http://karldufresne.blogspot.co.nz/2014/05/this-could-get-interesting.html
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May 16, 2014 10:00am
griffith

Still the same old crap I see longknifes
Still bleating about the crash without any proof… in fact going against the evidence presented at the inquest…..how many have died defiantly since then in piss fueled crashes or been killed maimed or had their lives destroyed since by piss?..thousands .every week end fifty percent plus of A&E admissions are from alcohol…. Over half of all violent crime is piss fueled…. these are uncontroversial facts not blind and unjustified speculation about one accident. The message is not that pot is good or safe its just less damaging than alcohol….

You are a one eyed drunken loser sooner or later you will have negative effects from you stinking drug if you haven’t already.
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May 16, 2014 10:12am
griffith

Gate way drug. hooked. spiking 😆 you are talking about something you have absolutely no idea about there Judith…

You will not pass of synthetics as pot they are very different it would be like selling wine as beer.
if synthetics are that addictive why haven’t there been a massive spike in addiction admissions in the last week as tens of thousands of addicted users suffer from withdrawal? Because its all emotive based crap from uniformed idiots with a borrow to push.
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May 16, 2014 10:21am
Judith

@ Komata (1,014 comments) says:
May 16th, 2014 at 9:57 am

I totally agree with you, regarding the ‘oxygen’, and suspect that many boomers are too astute to be sucked in by bribes, especially those with false bottoms.

I am not so sure about the conservatism in some areas. Many BBers have made their way in the world by forcing change. Yes, in the past it was radical, but still they are making changes where they can, and one of those is by requesting to be able to contribute as long as possible, unlike the previous generation who was happy to retire when told they should. I know I have lined my dots up so I can work until at least 80, should I wish to. Many of us have seen our parents wither away once retired and do not want that for ourselves.

And that is one characteristic that needs to be addressed. Whilst we are generally more conservative because of our maturity we are also a generation that tends to expect to have alternatives, and do not like being told ‘no’. Having the door closed in our faces, preventing us from working in positions that make us feel like we are contributing in a viable manner (no packing groceries does not do it for someone that was previously a professional, it does not make them feel viable) – is not acceptable. Just as being ignored is also not acceptable.

Many BBers have been forced from good positions over the last 15 years. Some have skills that are no longer of use, and there is a need for them, who still have at least 10 years working life ahead of them to upskill etc. Closing the door on them, forcing them to pack groceries or worst still, be unemployed and on welfare, is not going to get their vote.

The political parties might not want to address it – but if they don’t I believe they are not doing their job. By not addressing it because of the ill feeling over the Baby Boomer cohort by subsequent generations who feel like they have had their inheritance stolen by the generation, is ignoring a large percentage of the population, that like it or not, have the right to be included – most are still large tax payers.
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May 16, 2014 10:21am
wikiriwhis business

Quad bike helmet fine ‘unjustifiable’

A Rai Valley dairy farmer says a $15,000 fine handed out to a Marlborough farmhand for not wearing a helmet while riding a quad bike is “absolutely bloody ridiculous”.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/farming/10051594/Quad-bike-helmet-fine-unjustifiable

State fascism is enlarging by leaps and bounds.

This is naked enslavement
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May 16, 2014 10:22am
wikiriwhis business

“- Transport loses out…….because it doesn’t get any extra money.”

Because transport enriched ACC payments into the hundreds of millions
through the state theft of registrations.

ACC needs to be hit up big time
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May 16, 2014 10:27am
Judith

@ griffith (970 comments) says:
May 16th, 2014 at 10:21 am

having worked with many offenders, I am more than aware of the drug problems that occur, and have also been privy to many examples of how these things work.

You are not going to see any withdrawal signs for sometime and certainly not in the next few weeks. Many shops, knowing their products were to be disposed of, if not previously sold, dropped their prices and got rid of large amounts of stock. Sufficient for any addicted young person to have supplies for some time yet, not to mention of course that a great deal will still be available through other methods.

Spiking, not so much, for the reason you give. But there is strong evidence that when a person presents to purchase a legal high, they were demonstrating a desire to ‘get high’ – in which case samples of other ‘products’ were given for them to try and so on by those observing such purchases. We all know where it goes from there.
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May 16, 2014 10:30am
J Bloggs

yip its real hard to chuck a hand full of seeds in the garden

That part is easy (although given the results of my efforts at gardening, maybe easier to say that do…lol). The hard part, at this point in time, is getting hold of the seeds in the first place. As someone who is not a user of cannabis, I wouldn’t have the first idea of how to go about getting seeds to grow my own.

OTOH, I know I can find instructions on how to make alcohol on the ‘net. And I can buy all the ingredients required at the local supermarket.
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May 16, 2014 10:30am
Igotta Numbum

Fenton leaving…. writing on the wall stuff.
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May 16, 2014 10:31am
Odakyu-sen

”Net Government debt is expected to peak at $66 billion in 2016-17, or 26 per cent of GDP.” according to the Herald today.

I checked http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_public_debt for a comparison between NZ and other trading partners. According to this reference (IMF figures), gross gov. debt as a % of GDP is

NZ: 38.15%
UK: 90.3%
US: 106.5%
Japan: 237.9%

NZ public debt is far lower as a % than that of some other nations (for now). I hope the government will fully appreciate the old maxim that “debt is a good slave but a poor master” and apply the tool of borrowing prudently.

Japan, on the other hand, is going to face a whole lot of pain as its tax base shrinks (with an aging population) and pension commitments grow.
Watching the Japanese economic progress is like watching a Steven King thriller: right up until the end of the movie you’re on the edge of your seat wondering just how in the hell they are going to get out of this mess, and then at the last moment it is revealed that they really won’t. (And then you get this horrible depressing feeling, which is why I don’t watch movies based on Steven King’s works any more.)
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May 16, 2014 10:32am
nasska

J Bloggs

….”As someone who is not a user of cannabis, I wouldn’t have the first idea of how to go about getting seeds to grow my own.”….

If you were of a mind to grow your own, the same “net” would provide instructions & your local garden centre would provide everything you needed to make your crop a success.

There’s one difference & one only…..you wouldn’t have the state sponsored police breaking down your door to confiscate your home brew.
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May 16, 2014 10:39am
calendar girl

EAD @ 9:30am – thanks for the explanation. I agree with your general point. If any part of “transport” needs a bit of help from the public purse its roading, in Auckland in particular but in other places too like Wellington’s northern corridor.

The NZ Herald’s ““PUBLIC TRANSPORT LOSES OUT” theme also presumably ignores another $198m for Kiwirail?
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May 16, 2014 10:40am
wikiriwhis business

“theme also presumably ignores another $198m for Kiwirail?”

Which the bulk will probably go into new ferries
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May 16, 2014 10:48am
griffith

😆
Ive seen junkies who need a fix. I have seen someone stick a needle into their armpit and fish around for one of the few remaining veins Ive seen the result of infections from dirty needles turn arms black. Ive also sen normal people who can not make it a day without drink.. people who get the shakes if they don’t have the daily dose. believe me there is no addiction of any significance to synthetics or pot besides the physiological dependence when compared to even tobacco.
I know ex long term pot smokers who have given up just like that no problem never smoking again. One day a heavy user to totally clean with no issues or withdrawal symptoms. Ive stopped it my self at least twice.. again didn’t even notice any symptoms.

Alcohol be honest Judith how many of your friends or colleges have had their lives destroyed? I bet you can honestly name friends or relatives who have suffered or died as direct result of drinking.

The message is relative harm…

pot doesn’t cause as many problems to users or those around them as alcohol this is a quantifiable fact..
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May 16, 2014 10:51am
stephieboy

I see the “whining” Libertarian and “Austrian school ” crybabies are out in force during and post budget. What an arrogant and presumptuous bunch. Their purist chaotic anarchist ideology is totally unworkable and like Communism belongs to the dustbin of history.
There’s no way like the National Party way.!
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May 16, 2014 10:54am
igm

Espiner must back both ways.
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May 16, 2014 10:55am
Longknives

“I know ex long term pot smokers who have given up just like that no problem never smoking again……Ive stopped it my self at least twice.. ”

Comedic brilliance!
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May 16, 2014 10:58am
wreck1080

Despite the british economy, 1 in 10 of all adults have net worth of 2 million nzd, and 20% of degree holders eventually get 2 million or more.

I never realised the british were that wealthy.

Wonder how the figures work out in NZ.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/universityeducation/10834895/One-in-five-university-graduates-become-millionaires.html

“Twenty per cent of all adults who hold at least one university degree — more than two million people — now have wealth totalling at least £1 million, data from the Office for National Statistics show.
Almost a tenth of all British adults now own assets — property, pensions, savings and physical objects — worth £1 million or more.
“
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May 16, 2014 11:00am
nasska

Go to Google & type [domestic violence alcohol cannabis] There’ll be no shortage of hits…..two examples….

Ref 1): http://www.alternet.org/drugs/alcohol-fuels-domestic-violence-while-marijuana-doesnt-guess-which-one-feds-are-demonizing

Ref 2): http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/01/140127112733.htm

Yet it is cannabis use that is targeted….go figure.
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May 16, 2014 11:02am
stephieboy

wiki, its not state fascism The person in question had been observed numerous times driving his quad bike with his children without helmets . Farmers and the community had been adequately warned about a pending crackdown on quad bike safety and many farmers support the imposition of the fine.

http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/rural/244485/quad-bike-fine-draws-mixed-response
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May 16, 2014 11:04am
lilman

Thank god Fenton is going,a complete waste of money and space.

But cant help thinking after 3 terms she will milk the taxpayer for years to come on perks and cheap flights.

The fact the system allows this is bad, if not state funded corruption.
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May 16, 2014 11:20am
J Bloggs

naaska: I agree that I could get the instructions off the net, and the equipment legally – but I can’t get the seeds from the local garden centre (on the basis that it is currently illegal to sell them).

The point I’m trying to make, is that if you made alcohol illegal in the same manner as cannabis is, I could buy everything I need to produce alcohol legally – there is no point in the production cycle where the raw materials are illegal to obtain, and no way of making them so. Which is why prohibition for alcohol is always destined to fail, hence the reason no-one seriously tries to do it.

I’m not saying that alcohol is better or worse than cannabis, just that the strategies in place currently to control cannabis cannot be applied to alcohol because of the fundamental differences between the creation of the two substances.

I’ll also add that the potential harm from illicitly produced alcohol is far greater than the harm from legally produced alcohol (due to the greater likelyhood of contamination with methyl alcohol in the production process)

And yes, if alcohol prohibition was introduced, I’d fully expect the state sponsored police to break down my door and confiscate my homebrew – have you never watched “The Untouchables”? 😀
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May 16, 2014 11:24am
nasska

J Bloggs

I’ll accept that producing alcohol is not beyond anyone with a room temperature IQ & access to a supermarket. I can recall my boarding school days when we used to brew a concoction using apples from the orchard, sugar from the dining room & raisins as a fermenting agent. It wasn’t very potent but neither were we hardened pissheads & it gave a spark to mundane college socials. 🙂

BUT I’m not really arguing for alcohol prohibition. Rather I’m pushing for the state to back off from cannabis prohibition on the basis that the latter is a lesser evil than the former & in any case it is not the government’s function to protect us from ourselves.

If your point is that the public should be protected from the anti-social actions of those who use alcohol or cannabis then you’ll get no argument from me. The police & the courts already have the power needed for this & it is up to them to sort out those who step over the line.
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May 16, 2014 11:38am
Harriet

“……It appears that Little and his union henchmen must have pulled some strings………what the hell do these leeching lefties expect taxpayers to give them now?….”

If the former kiwi and unionist Craig Thompson is anyone to go by – then it is cigarettes, booze and blowjobs! 😎

[Albeit he used the fees from union members and not tax – but the behaviour is the same. ]
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May 16, 2014 11:40am
Ashley Schaeffer

Sad to see Fenton retiring. Talent like that is what is keeping Labour on the opposition benches.
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May 16, 2014 11:47am
Harriet

“…….Ive stopped it[pot] my self at least twice…………… again didn’t even notice any symptoms….”

We always notice them Griff. 😎
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May 16, 2014 11:47am
griffith

I did consider that being taken wrong long knifes I just thought that any one not fucked in the helmet would understand my statement …….
go figure.
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May 16, 2014 11:52am
stephieboy

“A Sudanese court gave a 27-year-old woman who is eight-months pregnant with her second child, until Thursday to abandon her newly adopted Christian faith and return to Islam or face a death sentence.  Mariam Yahya Ibrahim was charged with apostasy as well as adultery for marrying a Christian man, something prohibited for Muslim women to do and which makes the marriage void.  The final ruling will be announced on later today. Ibrahim’s case was the first of its kind to be heard in Sudan.
On February 7, 2014, Meriam was arrested, with her 20-month-old son, and put in a women’s prison. She had not been charged nor did she receive a fair trial.  A relative had turned her in to the police for marrying a Christian. According to the Sudan’s Public Order Criminal Code.  Meriam is a Muslim by default because she was born in Sudan.
Thus, her marriage to a Christian is a criminal act.  On March 4th, Meriam was charged with adultery and apostasy.  The adultery charge came with a punishment of 100 lashes.  The apostasy charge came with a punishment of death. As it stands, Meriam will be put to death following the birth of her second child.”

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2628895/Sudanese-wom an-eight-months-pregnant-flogged-death-unless-she.html
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May 16, 2014 12:04pm
griffith

Do you harry it
haven’t smoked pot in months 😆
I actually get more verbous in my posting and a lot less abusive when I am stoned.
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May 16, 2014 12:04pm
ciaron

Serious question:

Is there any situation where it is legal to stop a vehicle on the side of the road, when that road has a broken yellow ‘no stopping’ lines?
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May 16, 2014 12:11pm
Colville

Despite the british economy, 1 in 10 of all adults have net worth of 2 million nzd, and 20% of degree holders eventually get 2 million or more.

I never realised the british were that wealthy.

Wonder how the figures work out in NZ.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/universityeducation/10834895/One-in-five-university-graduates-become-millionaires.html

“Twenty per cent of all adults who hold at least one university degree — more than two million people — now have wealth totalling at least £1 million, data from the Office for National Statistics show.
Almost a tenth of all British adults now own assets — property, pensions, savings and physical objects — worth £1 million or more.

Take their house out of the wealth equation and they would be stoney broke. Forced saving by paying a mortgage is great but it aint really wealth.
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May 16, 2014 12:14pm
Kea

Colville, I agree. And all that money tied up in housing is unproductive debt.
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May 16, 2014 12:17pm
Kea

I actually get more verbous in my posting and a lot less abusive when I am stoned.

I seldom drink at home, but if I do and check KB, I get all lovey-dovey and want to be nice to people. Sickening ! 😉
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May 16, 2014 12:20pm
Judith

@ Ashley Schaeffer (353 comments) says:
May 16th, 2014 at 11:47 am

Going by that reasoning, one has to ask, what talent was it that kept National on the opposition benches for three terms in a row?
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May 16, 2014 12:20pm
Lucia Maria

Scott and Stephieboy,

That story on that poor woman who is going to be killed for her Christian faith demonstrates quite clearly why Islam is an evil religion. I remember reading that even in very moderate Muslim countries, there is still a percentage of people who believe apostates should be put to death.
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May 16, 2014 12:22pm
virtualmark

Darien Fenton’s standing down. Labour will be able to replace her with a woman, help get their gender balance sorted. #manban 🙂
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May 16, 2014 12:25pm
Kea

“A Sudanese court gave a 27-year-old woman who is eight-months pregnant with her second child, until Thursday to abandon her newly adopted Christian faith

jewish world

‘Modesty Patrol lynched me’

Elderly Jerusalem woman brutalized by thugs who evidently thought she was a missionary; police source: Assailants wanted to send a message

A 70-year-old ultra-Orthodox woman found herself the target of a brutal religious hate crime on Monday night, when four thugs broke into her home and beat her up before leaving her handcuffed and bleeding.

“They were sent by the Modesty Patrol,” the woman, S., told Yedioth Ahronoth. “They told me, ‘You are destroying the neighborhood with you missionary teachings.”

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4196645,00.html

[stupidboy thinks this is a-ok because only “some” people do it. In fact the fundamentalist Jews are the fastest growing group in Israel today. Kea thinks this sort of religious brutality is always wrong, regardless of if they are rag heads or yids.]
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May 16, 2014 12:27pm
Kea

Hi Lucy, still trying hate and lie your way to paradise I see. 🙂
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May 16, 2014 12:28pm
nasska

Lucia Maria

Just goes to show what decent, misunderstood types we atheists are. You’ll never hear us advocate for stoning or putting people to death for not following the “right” version of the crap.

Rather we gentle peace lovers only want you religious nuts to keep it to yourselves. 🙂
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May 16, 2014 12:29pm
ciaron

That’s not entirely honest nasska. Some of your fellow atheists insist that we not simply keep it to ourselves, some insist that we give it up altogether.
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May 16, 2014 12:32pm
Kea

List of Israeli price tag attacks

This is a list of attacks reported as being part of or suspected as being part of the price tag policy (Hebrew: מדיניות תג מחיר). This policy refers to acts of random violence aimed at the Palestinian population and Israeli security forces[1] by radical Israeli settlers, who, according to the New York Times, “exact a price from local Palestinians or from the Israeli security forces for any action taken against their settlement enterprise”.[2][3][4] The Wall Street Journal states that the term refers to “a campaign of retribution by fundamentalist Israeli youths against Palestinians in the West Bank”.[5] Over the period from January 2012 to June 2013, Israeli police registered 788 cases of suspected price tag assaults in which 276 arrests were conducted, leading to 154 indictments.[6]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Israeli_price_tag_attacks

Price tag’ attacks draw calls for stronger response
Ongoing nationalistically motivated vandalism on Arab mosques and property condemned by top politicians

Read more: ‘Price tag’ attacks draw calls for stronger response | The Times of Israel http://www.timesofisrael.com/price-tag-attacks-draw-calls-for-stronger-response/#ixzz31pm7TIzY
Follow us: @timesofisrael on Twitter | timesofisrael on Facebook

Church defaced in Jerusalem in suspected ‘price tag’ hate attack
Words ‘Jesus [is] garbage’ spray-painted on wall; ‘Death to Arabs’ graffiti also found on another street in the cit

Read more: Church defaced in Jerusalem in suspected ‘price tag’ hate attack | The Times of Israel http://www.timesofisrael.com/church-defaced-in-jerusalem-in-suspected-price-tag-attack/#ixzz31pmIIgLd
Follow us: @timesofisrael on Twitter | timesofisrael on Facebook
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May 16, 2014 12:32pm
griffith

No Stopping lines do not prevent vehicles from being parked to the left of the markings where there is no kerb, eg on a verge. However, a No Stopping sign relates to the full width of the road reserve and prohibits vehicles from being parked on a verge to the left of the roadway (see figure 6.3).
http://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/traffic-control-devices-manual/part-13-parking-control/6-2-markings.html
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May 16, 2014 12:34pm
Kea

Christians Feel Growing Oppression in Israel

The spitting is especially a problem for priests and pastors who stand out with their clerical garb. Where these Christians regularly meet Ultra-Orthodox Jews, insulting, spitting and even cursing occurs.

Some priests declared that they have been subject to spitting for years now. It is not only Christian institutions that are targeted, Islamic and other non-Jewish institutions also suffer from such attacks. An Armenian priest declared in one of the newspapers, “It’s almost impossible to pass through Jaffa Gate without this spitting happening.”

https://www.opendoorsusa.org/pray/prayer-updates/2012/March/Christians-Feel-Growing-Oppression-in-Israel
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May 16, 2014 12:35pm
nasska

….” Some of your fellow atheists insist that we not simply keep it to ourselves, some insist that we give it up altogether.”…..

You’ll never get me pushing that line ciaron. It’s been proved time & time again that driving the hocus pocus underground makes it a “forbidden fruit” & risks creating martyrs.

Totally counter productive….I’d rather you nuts kept it quietly in the open until you bore yourselves rigid. 🙂
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May 16, 2014 12:40pm
Ross12

Can someone please explain this headline “Budget: $145m annual cost of asset sales – Greens ” ( On Yahoo News –the article doesn’t make sense to me)
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May 16, 2014 12:41pm
Kea

Popcorn 😆

➡ Troll (for posting facts)

➡ Nazi ”

➡ Anti-semite ”

➡ Refusal to condemn wrong doing done by Jews.

➡ Attempt to minimise the problem of Jewish extremists.

➡ Lie for Gods chosen ones.

➡ Spread hate

➡ Point out that only some Jews behave this way and the government does not officially approve.

➡ Do not do the above for Muslims and lie that all Muslims and their governments approve of such things.

➡ Go to heaven
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May 16, 2014 12:42pm
stephieboy

Various punishments implemented under Sharia Law including lashings, hangings, stoning to death and burying In Iran and elsewhere,

Kea , pah for the course under your religion of peace.

Warning viewer discretion is advised.!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFikYgqMqJk
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May 16, 2014 12:43pm
Kea

stupidboy, Yes it is terrible the things done for religion. Did you catch my news reports of the filthy yid animals ? This is against a background of racial hatred in a country that requires medical tests to see if you are Racially Pure enough to live there. Even there own human rights groups have strongly condemned Israel for its terrible treatment of our Black Brothers. Its just awful.

I am sure you will join me in condemning this. Good to find some common ground, don’t you think ?
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May 16, 2014 12:47pm
stephieboy

And Pat Condell is spot on yet gain on the Idiocy of Islam a religion he reasonably believes equates with violence ,

The idiocy of Islam,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSeZcCnNoiA
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May 16, 2014 12:49pm
Kea

How the Jews Treat Christians in Israel – It’s Serious!

Warning viewer discretion is advised.!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jG6kJm-50k
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May 16, 2014 12:50pm
Kea

Jewish ‘modesty patrols’ sow fear in Israel

Some terrified that mere perception of impropriety could ruin their lives

JERUSALEM – In Israel’s ultra-Orthodox Jewish community, where the rule of law sometimes takes a back seat to the rule of God, zealots are on a campaign to stamp out behavior they consider unchaste. They hurl stones at women for such “sins” as wearing a red blouse and attack stores selling devices that can access the Internet.

In recent weeks, self-styled “modesty patrols” have been accused of breaking into the apartment of a Jerusalem woman and beating her for allegedly consorting with men. They have torched a store that sells MP4 players, fearing devout Jews would use them to download pornography.

“These breaches of purity and modesty endanger our community,” said 38-year-old Elchanan Blau, defending the bearded, black-robed zealots. “If it takes fire to get them to stop, then so be it.”
–
– See more at: http://www.violenceisnotourculture.org/content/jewish-%E2%80%98modesty-patrols%E2%80%99-sow-fear-israel#sthash.iqriBxvv.dpuf
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May 16, 2014 12:53pm
stephieboy

kea, you just provide the evidence of public executions,- stonings hangings beheadings and lashings , whippings etc in the State of Israel as per the aforesaid video.
Then we can talk business in a manner of speaking.
Right.?
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May 16, 2014 12:53pm
Jack5

Here’s a bone for General Debate’s religious warriors to gnaw on. I see they are already at it.

This is about a pregant, 27-year-old Sudanese woman, a doctor, who is allegedly to be flogged to death for her relationship with a Christian!

Seconds out of the ring!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2628895/Sudanese-woman-eight-months-pregnant-flogged-death-unless-she.html
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May 16, 2014 1:00pm
Kea

stupidboy, okay lets not clutter GD today and consider other readers. We can end this right now by simply stating the following.

➡ I Kea condemn the brutality of Muslim extremists and totally oppose them. In the exact same way as I oppose such actions by ALL groups of people, both atheist and theist.

Now your turn stupidboy. Condemn the wrong doing of Jews ….(not “jews” just the wrong doing, ya know, like you do for Muslims daily)
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May 16, 2014 1:02pm
stephieboy

Kea (11,677 comments) says:
May 16th, 2014 at 12:50 pm
How the Jews Treat Christians in Israel – It’s Serious!

“Warning viewer discretion is advised.!”

A joke and a lie.! I wonder if your presenter would take hi same kind of questions to a public execution or flogging In Iran or Saudi Arabia.?
Of course not.!
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May 16, 2014 1:05pm
Kea

“kea, you just provide the evidence of public executions,- stonings hangings beheadings and lashings , whippings etc in the State of Israel as per the aforesaid video.”

Haredim stone, pour bleach on woman: Haredi Ultra-Orthodox

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8sWsSJfDzY

In June 2008, a modesty patrol in Beitar Illit was suspected of spilling acid on a teenage girl for wearing trousers[8][9]

In August 2008, the Israel State Prosecutor’s office indicted seven men, allegedly from a Jerusalem modesty squad, for beating a woman and threatening her with death regarding her relationships with men. The ringleader was charged with conspiracy to commit a crime, aggravated assault, and extortion. In the same month, a man said to be a member of a chastity squad was arrested for alleged involvement in the torching of a store selling MP4 players.[10]

In February 2012, a 70-year-old haredi woman was attacked and beaten in her home by a Modesty Patrol who suspected her of being a Christian missionary.[11]
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May 16, 2014 1:05pm
Kea

stupidboy, enough !

Do you condemn the actions of the Jewish radicals, as I have done the Muslims unreservedly, or not ?

➡ Yes or No ?
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May 16, 2014 1:08pm
ciaron

Thaks griff,
your answer and link show that it is not legal to park to the right of a broken yellow line.

part two of my question:

Does having a cycle lane to the right of a broken yellow line (so that the broken yellow line would be considered within the cycle lane) enable a vehicle to park in the cycle lane?
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May 16, 2014 1:12pm
johnwellingtonwells

Tasman district police spokeswoman Barbara Dunn said police received reports from the approaching plane that it could not get its landing gear down.

Police were “preparing for an emergency landing at Greymouth,” she said.

“But prior to landing they did manage to get their gear down.”

Whose gear?
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May 16, 2014 1:18pm
stephieboy

kea, of course I do , but qualified by the fact that you are comparing apples with oranges. Yes there are zealots and extremists on both sides but with the important difference the Israeli Government does not condone the actions of its variety including the alleged pouring of bleach .But the iran and Saudi, Sudanese Governments do with those barbaric public executions and floggings etc.
It’s time for them and others to realize that this is the 21st century not the 11th century.
A constructive first step would be to remove Apostasy, Adultery, Sorcery and witchcraft as capital offenses. And forbid public executions.
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May 16, 2014 2:01pm
wreck1080

Rolf Harris member of the mongrel mob?

Harris ‘barked like dog before groping me’, woman claims

Rolf Harris groped a teenage girl at an Its a Celebrity Knockout event after she came across him crouched on all fours barking at a dog, a court heard yesterday.
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May 16, 2014 2:18pm

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