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May 13, 2014 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 13 May 2014

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General Debate

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nasska

Let’s see Kea….”cowardly, prog, homo, knuckle dragging, marxist, leftist scum”.

55 characters already. Doesn’t leave much room for the message. 🙂
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May 13, 2014 7:29pm
mikenmild

DVM
Long day, shortish fuse with Kea’s non-stop nonsense. He fucked me off with his lies on the Taurima threa, too.
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May 13, 2014 7:31pm
ciaron

Genesis chapter 3 verse 2: the woman said to the serpent…

That bit means they were having a conversation.

Verse 3: But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

That bit means she knew she was not to eat it.

Verse 4: And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die…..

The Serpent is encouraging Eve to disobey God.

verse 6:When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it.

Eve does what the serpent has suggested, and gives some to Adam,who was with her. Does he say, hey God said not to eat that? or does he go along with it? I think he goes along with it because he heard the conversation and decided it was a good idea, so, Adam and Eve listened to, and were convinced by the serpent’s argument.
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May 13, 2014 7:31pm
nasska

Wait until you hear the one about Goldilocks & the Three Bears ciaron. 🙂
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May 13, 2014 7:35pm
thedavincimode

milkymuggins

Remember, you are the broad shoulders of the nation.

We depend upon you to endure and not be distracted by the naughty Keas and the deadbeat Taurimas. It is your burden.
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May 13, 2014 7:37pm
Kea

He fucked me off with his lies on the Taurima threa, too.

Translation: He showed me up.
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May 13, 2014 7:37pm
ciaron

Disclaimer: I am not a YEC and have not reached a solid position on how Genesis 1-3 are to be read. I think there are good reasons for each reading, but I have a lot of other reading to do first 🙂
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May 13, 2014 7:39pm
mikenmild

Thanks DVM. I do my best each day as a dedicated public servant, as you well know, so I will stick up for those of us who toil each day to make this country better for everyone.
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May 13, 2014 7:42pm
thedavincimode

to make this country better for everyone.

In the eye of any particular “beholder” milky?
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May 13, 2014 7:48pm
SGA

nasska at 7:29 pm

”cowardly, prog, homo, knuckle dragging, marxist, leftist scum”.
55 characters already. Doesn’t leave much room for the message. 🙂

That would be the major content of the message though, so there wouldn’t be much need for more room. There may even be a quintessential 140 characters that, once perfected, could be repeated regardless of topic?
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May 13, 2014 7:50pm
ciaron

thedavincimode (6,168 comments) says:
May 13th, 2014 at 7:19 pm
ciaron

G** should have recruited them both on a 90 day trial period. It would have saved the world a lot of trouble and perhaps made Adam more receptive to the notion of executive responsibility.

Maybe… if memory serves, God didn’t have a whole bunch of C.V.s to choose from, just some unqualified bloke called Adam and an an uppity angel called Beelzebub with aspirations above his station! 🙂
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May 13, 2014 7:52pm
OneTrack

mike – “National – the party of the status quo.”

So, voting National this time then mike?
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May 13, 2014 7:53pm
nasska

….” There may even be a quintessential 140 characters that, once perfected, could be repeated regardless of topic?”…..

Like a condensed version of his standard comments on Kiwiblog SGA.

Should work…..it’s been done before. 🙂
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May 13, 2014 7:54pm
SGA

ciaron at 7:52 pm

Maybe… if memory serves, God didn’t have a whole bunch of C.V.s to choose from, just some unqualified bloke called Adam and an an uppity angel called Beelzebub with aspirations above his station! 🙂

Your comment reminded of Pratchett and Gaiman’s “Good Omens”. Might reread that sometime for light entertainment.
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May 13, 2014 7:57pm
nasska

In the garden of Eden sat Adam,
Massaging the tits of his madam,
He chuckled with mirth,
for he knew that on earth,
there were only two boobs – and he had ’em.
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May 13, 2014 8:01pm
goldnkiwi

Three as he was one !!!;)
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May 13, 2014 8:03pm
thedavincimode

No ciaron

As I said, I think G** had ADD.

If Winston has been staggering around spilling his drink or sleeping lunch or the night before off under a tree, he would have got the gig if G** had spotted him before spotting Adam sitting in the shade reading his Greenpeace newsletters.
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May 13, 2014 8:04pm
nasska

News just in from Pyongyang…..North Korea have won Eurovision for the 27th year running.
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May 13, 2014 8:31pm
Kea

nasska, milky will be pleased. He sees North Korea as the last great hope for a workers paradise.
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May 13, 2014 8:33pm
ciaron

Alright, time for a change of direction,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvRBUw_Ls2o

best white rappers ever?
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May 13, 2014 8:34pm
MT_Tinman

nasska (9,778 comments) says:
May 13th, 2014 at 6:10 pm
If you believe in creation as proposed in the Bible, then Adam and Eve’s children would actually have had to have sex with one another for the Earth to have become populated.

This is surely proof that Christchurch was at one time the Garden of Eden.

Only the Labour bits Nasska, only the Labour bits
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May 13, 2014 8:39pm
Ryan Sproull

God didn’t put the snake there, it came in by itself

Omnipotent, omniscient creator of the universe surprised by random unexpected snake.
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May 13, 2014 8:40pm
ciaron

Omnipotent, omniscient creator of the universe surprised by random unexpected snake.

I don’t think so, Tim.
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May 13, 2014 8:46pm
nasska

….”only the Labour bits”…

That’s a given MT_Tinman. 🙂
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May 13, 2014 8:49pm
mikenmild

‘Adam and Eve’s children would actually have had to have sex with one another for the Earth to have become populated.’
One of the godnutters may correct me, but I believe that Genesis refers to ‘other people’, implying that other humans were created for the children of Adam and Eve to marry. Cain wnet to the land of Nod, where he ‘knew’ his wife. Genesis is silent on how this wife came to be.
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May 13, 2014 8:57pm
Ryan Sproull

Problem is, Mikenmild, that interpretation gets in the way of the whole “congenital original sin” thing. If there are people who could technically trace their lineage back to someone who wasn’t involved in the Fall, they might not need Christ’s redemptive sacrifice.
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May 13, 2014 9:05pm
Kea

they might not need Christ’s redemptive sacrifice.

Jews, Hindus….
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May 13, 2014 9:06pm
Ryan Sproull

Jews, Hindus….

All gunked up with original sin.

Shouldn’t have been incarnated as a human, Hindus!
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May 13, 2014 9:16pm
Lucia Maria

Ryan,

Who said God was surprised?

Mike,

Sorry, I probably made you waste your popcorn. My husband came in, and I did the dinner thing, plus listened to his day and gave advise and moral support and now it’s tidy time and getting everyone to go to bed early so the cat goes out early and comes back in time for me to go to bed.

I don’t like dueling unarmed opponents, anyway. They’re no fun after the initial flurry.
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May 13, 2014 9:16pm
Left Right and Centre

Interesting interpretation, but no. There are levels of sin. What Eve did was wrong, and she knew it was wrong and she admitted it before God. However, her sin was not enough to cause Original Sin, especially since she did admit it.

Like a child reciting Harry Potter in faithful detail . . .

What – no reading a riveting chapter of the book of bollocks before bed ? No group hand-holding, praying, clapping and singing session ? No speaking in tongues ? Wow – where’s the fun ?
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May 13, 2014 9:18pm
Ryan Sproull

Ryan,

Who said God was surprised?

Someone asked why God put the snake there.

You said God didn’t put the snake there; it came in by itself.

(As a quick aside: we are discussing the location and origin of a talking snake.)

Did God create the snake, Lucia?
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May 13, 2014 9:20pm
Kea

Ryan Sproull, All I know is that it must have been a man ! And even if it were a woman, it was a mans fault for letting her do it. 🙂
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May 13, 2014 9:30pm
ciaron

LRC, ever had a look at Lee Strobel’s The Case For Christ?

You probably won’t find it convincing, but it may give you something to think about.
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May 13, 2014 9:31pm
griffith

“Anyway, if you stop tellin’ people it’s all sorted out afer they’re dead, they might try sorting it all out while they’re alive. ”

“Build a man a fire, and he’ll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he’ll be warm for the rest of his life.”

― Terry Pratchett
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May 13, 2014 9:33pm
Kea

Shit-a-brick griffy did a funny 🙂
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May 13, 2014 9:35pm
ShawnLH

Judith, your hysteria is getting the better of your brain.

Nowhere did I ever say that Collins should get away with anything. Twice you have claimed that I’m saying that, but in neither of my posts did I say anything at all like that. Nor am I trying to excuse her at all.

But I am pointing our the double standards, of both her accuses, and you.

When I see posts about Cunliffe and Peters demanding they be sacked for their corruption, I’ll take you seriously.

Until then it your posts just look like selective hypocrisy to me.
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May 13, 2014 9:37pm
ShawnLH

Ryan,

“Did God create the snake, Lucia?”

You already know who the snake is, you were at theological college long enough, so why the question?

The serpent is Satan, who’s own fall was prior to the fall of humanity.
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May 13, 2014 9:40pm
Lucia Maria

Ryan,

You studied theology, didn’t you?

Therefore you must know that the snake was actually Lucifer, who was created by God and because of his “non serviam” became a fallen angel whose sole purpose is to destroy humankind. Or did they not teach that where you studied?
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May 13, 2014 9:40pm
ShawnLH

“One of the godnutters may correct me,”

Unlikely if you start with insults. That kind of insulting questioning makes you no better than any other troll. Your usually better than that Mike.
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May 13, 2014 9:44pm
Ryan Sproull

That doesn’t entirely avoid the problem, Shawn and Lucia. Whether it was a snake or Lucifer in disguise, God created it with full knowledge of what it was going to do. Kea’s question could just as easily be rephrased as, “Why did he put a rebellious angel there in the first place?”
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May 13, 2014 9:46pm
Kea

Lucy, I think God was not a very clear writer. In fact it seems like you can’t believe a word he wrote ! Every time I present clear words from his best know book, I am advised (via very convoluted labyrinthyne comments that challenge all previously held notions of logic) it means the exact opposite of what it said 🙂
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May 13, 2014 9:47pm
ShawnLH

“Or did they not teach that where you studied?”

Possibly not, as it’s unfortunately a fairly ultra-liberal college.

That said, Ryan has a good grasp on Christian theology, mostly, he’s read enough, and the identity of the serpent is pretty much common knowledge anyway, so not sure where his questions are coming from.
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May 13, 2014 9:47pm
griffith

“You do know you could find yourself charged with being a dominant species while under the influence of impulse-driven consumerism, don’t you?”
― Terry Pratchett, Good Omens
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May 13, 2014 9:50pm
ShawnLH

““Why did he put a rebellious angel there in the first place?””

For the same reason he gave humanity free will.

If you want a world in which love is possible, then love by it’s very nature must be freely chosen. In order to be and do good, you need the choice to be and do evil.

Freedom is the answer to your question. And freedom to love and do good means the freedom to choose the opposite.
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May 13, 2014 9:50pm
mikenmild

Sorry Shawn. I meant to say ‘religious enthusiasts’. It just slipped out like, well, a serpent in the garden.
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May 13, 2014 9:50pm
Kea

Unlikely if you start with insults.

Now that is a bit rich ShawnLH coming from you. Aside from the hysterical remarks directed at a harmless and lovable parrot, some of the stuff you have said about my dear friend UglyTruth would make Satan blush 😉
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May 13, 2014 9:51pm
Ryan Sproull

For the same reason he gave humanity free will.

If you want a world in which love is possible, then love by it’s very nature must be freely chosen. In order to be and do good, you need the choice to be and do evil.

Freedom is the answer to your question. And freedom to love and do good means the freedom to choose the opposite.

Bracketing for a moment the fact that “free will” is a contradiction in terms, much like “square circle”…

So God knew that the angel He created would choose to rebel? And that’s why He created it?
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May 13, 2014 9:53pm
ShawnLH

Mike, if you stop using phrases like “godnutters” I promise to remember my apostrophes in words like “you’re” 😉
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May 13, 2014 9:54pm
Kea

““Why did he put a rebellious angel there in the first place?””

For the same reason he gave humanity free will.

Hold on a minute and back up to where this began.

Lucy claimed it was Adams fault Eve ate the forbidden fruit and listened to the serpent. Because he did not stop her (removing her free will).

Now remember Adam knew nothing of sin. What would you have Adam do ? Drag the bitch off to the other side of the garden and give her a clip under the ear ?
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May 13, 2014 9:55pm
ShawnLH

“So God knew that the angel He created would choose to rebel? And that’s why He created it?”

He knew that all his creatures had the potential to rebel, yes.

I think I know what your next question will be. 🙂
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May 13, 2014 9:56pm
Ryan Sproull

he knew that all his creatures had the potential to rebel, yes.

That’s not what I asked. So God didn’t know that the angel would rebel, but was not surprised when it did so, because he figured that was a possibility, on account of the angel being created with the potential to rebel.

And when Lucia said, “God didn’t put the snake there, it came in by itself…” she was mistaken. God did put the “snake” there.
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May 13, 2014 9:59pm
griffith

“All right,” said Susan. “I’m not stupid. You’re saying humans need… fantasies to make life bearable.”

REALLY? AS IF IT WAS SOME KIND OF PINK PILL? NO. HUMANS NEED FANTASY TO BE HUMAN. TO BE THE PLACE WHERE THE FALLING ANGEL MEETS THE RISING APE.

“Tooth fairies? Hogfathers? Little—”

YES. AS PRACTICE. YOU HAVE TO START OUT LEARNING TO BELIEVE THE LITTLE LIES.

“So we can believe the big ones?”

YES. JUSTICE. MERCY. DUTY. THAT SORT OF THING.

“They’re not the same at all!”

YOU THINK SO? THEN TAKE THE UNIVERSE AND GRIND IT DOWN TO THE FINEST POWDER AND SIEVE IT THROUGH THE FINEST SIEVE AND THEN SHOW ME ONE ATOM OF JUSTICE, ONE MOLECULE OF MERCY. AND YET—Death waved a hand. AND YET YOU ACT AS IF THERE IS SOME IDEAL ORDER IN THE WORLD, AS IF THERE IS SOME…SOME RIGHTNESS IN THE UNIVERSE BY WHICH IT MAY BE JUDGED.

“Yes, but people have got to believe that, or what’s the point—”

MY POINT EXACTLY.”
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May 13, 2014 9:59pm
Ryan Sproull

Yes, Terry Pratchett is a bit of a poet when no one’s watching, isn’t he.
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May 13, 2014 10:00pm
ShawnLH

Kea,

“Lucy claimed it was Adams fault Eve ate the forbidden fruit and listened to the serpent.”

I think the issue of which was at fault is irrelevant myself, the issue is that humanity chose evil over good.

I would also point out that taking the story as true does not require taking it in a historically literal way.
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May 13, 2014 10:01pm
griffith

“Night poured over the desert. It came suddenly, in purple. In the clear air, the stars drilled down out of the sky, reminding any thoughtful watcher that it is in the deserts and high places that religions are generated. When men see nothing but bottomless infinity over their heads they have always had a driving and desperate urge to find someone to put in the way.”

“The enemy isn’t men, or women, it’s bloody stupid people and no one has the right to be stupid.”
― Terry Pratchett, Monstrous Regiment

ditto
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May 13, 2014 10:02pm
Ryan Sproull

I would also point out that taking the story as true does not require taking it in a historically literal way.

I agree.
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May 13, 2014 10:03pm
ShawnLH

” So God didn’t know that the angel would rebel, but was not surprised when it did so, because he figured that was a possibility, on account of the angel being created with the potential to rebel.”

That’s a good possibility, yes. I think your assuming that omniscience would mean that God would have had to know, in advance as it were. But that is not necessarily the case.
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May 13, 2014 10:05pm
doggone7

Northland Wahine; “Lilith… Said to be Adams first wife. Refused to lay beneath him so left on her own accord.”

And damned reliable those Honda Accords were too!
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May 13, 2014 10:06pm
Ryan Sproull

Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when first we interpret literally….v.
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May 13, 2014 10:06pm
Ryan Sproull

That’s a good possibility, yes. I think your assuming that omniscience would mean that God would have had to know, in advance as it were. But that is not necessarily the case.

Which brings us back to the element of surprise.

In fairness, if I were to create a universe, I wouldn’t want to know how it turns out either. Spoilers.
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May 13, 2014 10:07pm
Kea

ShawnLH, no humanity did not. Women did, at least that is what the bible says. Which was my point entirely. Lucy went into some of the most convoluted logic free contortions in order to avoid that and blame MEN !!! 😉

She then squirmed like a salted slug when I asked why Women were not allowed to be priests in many Churches.
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May 13, 2014 10:07pm
ShawnLH

“The open view of the future holds that God chose to create a cosmos that is populated with free agents – at least humans and angels (though some hold that there is a degree of freedom, however small, in all sentient beings). To have free will means that one has the ability to transition several possible courses of action into one actual course of action. This is precisely why Open Theists hold that the future is partly comprised of possibilities. While God can decide to pre-settle whatever aspects of the future he wishes, to the degree that he has given agents freedom, God has chosen to leave the future open, as a domain of possibilities, for agents to resolve with their free choices.”

Gregory Boyd.
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May 13, 2014 10:09pm
Ryan Sproull

“The open view of the future holds that God chose to create a cosmos that is populated with free agents – at least humans and angels (though some hold that there is a degree of freedom, however small, in all sentient beings). To have free will means that one has the ability to transition several possible courses of action into one actual course of action. This is precisely why Open Theists hold that the future is partly comprised of possibilities. While God can decide to pre-settle whatever aspects of the future he wishes, to the degree that he has given agents freedom, God has chosen to leave the future open, as a domain of possibilities, for agents to resolve with their free choices.”

Gregory Boyd.

“God is that which breaks The Rules.”

Ryan Sproull.
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May 13, 2014 10:10pm
ShawnLH

Kea,

“ShawnLH, no humanity did not. Women did, at least that is what the bible says. Which was my point entirely.”

Well, both Adam and Eve ate the apple, so I’m inclined to disagree with both you and Lucia! 🙂

My view is that Adam and Eve were not literal historical persons, but are archetypes of human nature.
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May 13, 2014 10:11pm
Kea

I am going to bed to read a Dan Brown book. At least the words mean what they say and there are a smattering of facts in it 🙂
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May 13, 2014 10:12pm
mikenmild

‘reading’ and ‘Dan Brown book’ are somewhat oxymoronic.
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May 13, 2014 10:14pm
ShawnLH

The Bible means what it says, it’s only fundamentalists and Atheists who insist on treating it in a shallow and superficial way. 🙂
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May 13, 2014 10:14pm
Ryan Sproull

My view is that Adam and Eve were not literal historical persons, but are archetypes of human nature.

I suspect even the notion of a “literal historical person” was not a thinkable concept by the authors of Genesis.

I suspect if you asked them, “Yes, but did it actually happen?” they would be content with replying, “What do you mean? It’s true. Who cares if it actually happened or not?”

But that’s just me. I’m very suspicious.
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May 13, 2014 10:15pm
Ryan Sproull

On Dan Brown:

http://youtu.be/eBPQex_4J-U
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May 13, 2014 10:16pm
ShawnLH

“In fairness, if I were to create a universe, I wouldn’t want to know how it turns out either. Spoilers.”

I agree. There is a Jewish saying that God created the world because He loves stories. Who want’s to know in advance how the story goes?
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May 13, 2014 10:17pm
Ryan Sproull

I agree. There is a Jewish saying that God created the world because He loves stories. Who want’s to know in advance how the story goes?

Eschatologists.

Er… scatologists…
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May 13, 2014 10:20pm
ShawnLH

Have you read any of Rene Girad’s books Ryan?
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May 13, 2014 10:24pm
Ryan Sproull

I have not, nope.
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May 13, 2014 10:25pm
ShawnLH

He is a French philosopher who links the concept of original sin to human evolution. In a nutshell, and this probably won’t do his very complex work full justice, he teaches that at some point in our evolution we made a bargain with violence as a way to get what we want in life. This was both a blessing and a curse, in that it helped create human civilization, but made violence the bedrock of human behavior and relationships.
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May 13, 2014 10:31pm
ShawnLH

Anyway, I’m off to bed myself, NOT to read Dan Brown! 🙂
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May 13, 2014 10:32pm
Yvette

One wonders how long the gap was between Eve eating the forbidden fruit and Adam following her example.
Did Eve gain the knowledge of good and bad before “she gave some to her husband and he also ate”?
What had she learnt when she passed the fruit on? 🙂
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May 13, 2014 10:33pm
goldnkiwi

Like this ShawnLH? http://www.stuff.co.nz/science/10039994/Bullies-may-get-a-long-lasting-physical-benefit
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May 13, 2014 10:38pm
SGA

ShawnLH at 10:31 pm

He is a French philosopher who links the concept of original sin to human evolution. In a nutshell, and this probably won’t do his very complex work full justice, he teaches that at some point in our evolution we made a bargain with violence as a way to get what we want in life. This was both a blessing and a curse, in that it helped create human civilization, but made violence the bedrock of human behavior and relationships.

Perhaps, but you could argue that violence is a bedrock of much of the animal kingdom in general, and often provides the grist for the mill of evolution.
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May 13, 2014 10:39pm
Ryan Sproull

He is a French philosopher who links the concept of original sin to human evolution. In a nutshell, and this probably won’t do his very complex work full justice, he teaches that at some point in our evolution we made a bargain with violence as a way to get what we want in life. This was both a blessing and a curse, in that it helped create human civilization, but made violence the bedrock of human behavior and relationships.

Interesting. I’m a fan of the interpretation (can’t remember whose) that original sin came about the moment we achieved a sense of selfness and difference from our environment, and that paradise is regained through re-attaining that intuitive understanding of identity with everything.
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May 13, 2014 10:40pm
Tom Jackson

Interesting. I’m a fan of the interpretation (can’t remember whose) that original sin came about the moment we achieved a sense of selfness and difference from our environment, and that paradise is regained through re-attaining that intuitive understanding of identity with everything.

At least some of the existentialists argued that intentional consciousness makes that impossible.
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May 13, 2014 11:12pm
Tom Jackson

I see Penny did the good work of digging up the pecuniary interest records, and lo and behold the other National ministers appear to have declared all and sundry when on ministerial visits, as Ms Collins did previously.

Why not this one?

Winston may not have a smoking gun, but he certainly has a used condom.
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May 13, 2014 11:14pm
Left Right and Centre

ciaron – you’re damned right – I’m not convinced by fiction.

I’m not convinced anyone called Jesus existed. I’m not convinced about anything that requires blind faith based on someone else simply telling you that it is so and you then swallowing it whole without question.

Can we all agree that Harry Potter is fiction ? One out of two is a good start.

I wonder what nasska would say about the possible existence of someone called Jesus ? That’s who I turn to. WWND ??

Very very unscientific is idiots trying to prove what is to them a foregone conclusion. That’s mental. Fucking moron dipshits. Our shit exists no ifs ands or buts and now here’s the evidence to back it up. Good one dickheads.
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May 13, 2014 11:43pm
Left Right and Centre

Today’s gripping installment of life of a dieter . . .

At the shops I left behind a gorgeous little nine pack of raspberry buns – $2.50 – total bargain. I managed not to buy potatoes for homemade potato chips (it smokes the fuckin house out – I have to open windows at night time – pain in the arse). Diet soft drink is a safe nicety. Cycled to shop for exercise too – I could’ve flagged it. No wind – a miracle in these parts – you’ve got to use a calm evening.
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May 13, 2014 11:53pm
ciaron

Well, see the problem there LRC, is that if we apply the same criteria that is applied to other ancient documents to the new testament, you’ll find that it is vastly more reliable than most other ancient documents. In fact, most Historians agree that Jesus existed, From Wiki:

Most modern scholars of antiquity agree that Jesus existed,[5][7][8] but scholars differ on the historicity of specific episodes described in the Biblical accounts,[12] and the only two events subject to “almost universal assent” are that Jesus was baptized by John the Baptist and was crucified by the order of the Roman Prefect Pontius Pilate.[9][10][11] There is a significant debate about his nature, his actions and his sayings, but most scholars agree that Jesus was a Galilean Jew who was born between 7-4 BC and died 30–36 AD,[13][14][15] that he lived in Galilee and Judea and did not preach or study elsewhere,[16][17][18] and that he spoke Aramaic and perhaps also Hebrew and Greek.
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May 14, 2014 7:12am
Lucia Maria

For those that are still interested, a good post by a Catholic priest: Why is Original Sin called the Sin of Adam, not the sin of Adam and Eve. At the beginning of his post he gives scriptural proof that Adam is considered primarily responsible for original sin, and then a discussion of why this might be so.
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May 14, 2014 9:19am
Left Right and Centre

ciaron – there is no problem. It’s fiction. Rising from the dead is fiction. Virgin birth is fiction. Healing disease with miracle touch is fiction. If it happened – it’s hard to prove. There is no proof. It’s unlikely to say the least.

Most people in the world are religious. Does that mean that someone should join the herd simply because they are more numerous ? I don’t fucking think so.

Charles Darwin didn’t either. There was a person very much in the minority – and yet changed the world.
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May 14, 2014 7:56pm

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