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April 26, 2014 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 26 April 2014

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Lucia Maria

Reid,

What Pussy Riot’s ‘Punk Prayer’ Really Said

Virgin birth-giver of God, drive away Putin!
Drive away Putin, drive away Putin!

Black frock, golden epaulettes
Parishioners crawl bowing [toward the priest, during the Eucharist]
Freedom’s ghost [has gone to] heaven
A gay-pride parade [has been] sent to Siberia in shackles

Their chief saint is the head of the KGB
He leads a convoy of protestors to jail
So as not to insult the Holiest One
Woman should bear children and love
Shit, shit, the Lord’s shit!
Shit, shit, the Lord’s shit!

The “golden epaulettes” call to mind KGB officers and military dress uniforms, and the juxtaposition with “black frock” is no accident. With the collapse of the Soviet Union, many Russian Orthodox priests were denounced as having collaborated with country’s most feared spy agency. In fact, the current Patriarch Kirill I stands accused by journalists, the Helsinki Group (a prominent Russian human rights organization), and, of course, Pussy Riot, of working with the KGB. (In her court statement, now free band member Yekaterina Samutsevich referred to him as Putin’s “former colleague.”) The group chose the cathedral as their locus of protest because, again according to Samutsevich, it had been “used openly as a flashy backdrop for the politics of the security forces.”

…

A second self-explanatory choral refrain then follows:

Virgin birth-giver of God, become a feminist!
Become a feminist, become a feminist!

Which segues back into lines about politics and corruption:

The Church praises rotten leaders
The march of the cross consists of black limousines
A preacher is on his way to your school
Go to class and give him money!

Patriarch Kirill has moved the Church ever closer to the Kremlin and, ahead of presidential elections last March, openly called on Russians to vote for Putin. The “march of the cross” refers to the ceremony (krestnyi khod, in Russian), enacted during Easter celebrations, in which parishioners form processions and carry crosses from local churches around town. Intended as a sincere expression of faith, the march has been corrupted, Pussy Riot implies, both by the Church’s proximity to political power and by the Yeltsin-era privilege it once enjoyed (by presidential decree) to import luxury cars (as well as tobacco) duty-free. Hence the reference to “black limousines.”

Patriarch Gundyay believes in Putin
Would be better, the bastard, if he believed in God!
The Virgin’s belt won’t replace political gatherings
The eternal Virgin Mary is with us in our protests!

Virgin birth-Giver of God, drive away Putin!
Drive away Putin, drive away Putin!

Patriarch Kirill’s secular surname is Gundyayev. The Patriarch called Putin “a miracle from God” in his endorsement, thus making clear his faith in him. The Russian word used for my “bastard” was suka (bitch), which can’t apply to a male subject, so I’ve made the corresponding change. The “Virgin’s belt” seems to refer to the holy relic, the “Belt of the Blessed Birthgiver of God” brought from Mount Athos in Greece to the Cathedral some months before Pussy Riot’s performance there. Thousands lined up in fierce cold to pay it homage, many in the hope that the sash purportedly worn by the Virgin while she was carrying Jesus might cure their ailments. Pussy Riot was, thus, saying “Don’t look to God for help, you’ve got to get out on the streets and demand change!” The import of the next line is clear: The Virgin Mary, who is purported to stand with the downtrodden (and not, presumably, with institutions allied with authoritarian regimes), must, in Pussy Riot’s view, support them in their fight for justice.

Where’s the desecration exactly, now that the context has been broadened from what your links give? And how can there be any desecration if you don’t believe in religion, thinking it to be man-made?
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April 26, 2014 7:59pm
nasska

Two Unicorns were on Noah’s Ark when one said to the other, “Hi, I’m George.”

The other replies, “Pleased to meet you George, I’m Arthur.”
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April 26, 2014 8:00pm
Kea

Lucy needs a HUG 🙂
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April 26, 2014 8:02pm
Kea

What is COMMON LAW?

As distinguished from the Roman law, the modern civil law, the canon law, and other systems, the common law is that body of law and juristic theory which was originated, developed, and formulated and is administered in England, and has obtained among most of the states and peoples of Anglo-Saxon stock. Lux v. Haggin, 69 Cal. 255, 10 Pac. 674. 2. As distinguished from law created by the enactment of legislatures, the common COMMON LAW 227 COMMON PLEAS law comprises the body of those principles and rules of action

Law Dictionary: What is COMMON LAW? definition of COMMON LAW (Black’s Law Dictionary)

Kea, did you not provide any source for you assertion that the term “common law” comes from the Court of Common Pleas in England because you were talking out of your arse at the time?
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April 26, 2014 8:04pm
Psycho Milt

American conservatives should welcome the resurgence of a conservative Russia.

I for one am happy to agree that American conservatives want exactly the kind of thing for the USA that Putin has delivered for Russians.
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April 26, 2014 8:04pm
OneTrack

NBR headline – “Parker wants big tool”

We needed to know that.
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April 26, 2014 8:05pm
Kea

I for one am happy to agree that American conservatives want exactly the kind of thing for the USA that Putin has delivered for Russians.

Praise be Jesus !

The article I quoted was cut n’ paste from the American conservative. They are rather fond of Putin.
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April 26, 2014 8:09pm
All_on_Red

Lucy
It seems that the extent of your argument is because of religious grounds America Good, Russia Bad.
Stunning.
Did it occur to you that many think that both are evil corporate government controlling media bias driven liars whose politicians cheat and lie for personal advancement?
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April 26, 2014 8:31pm
UglyTruth

With just a little more reading, you’ll get a richer picture (but then again, you’ll probably grasp only that which already matches your preconceptions, and that’s the ugly way)

Yeah, so people have different opinions about what deism is.
What is your point?
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April 26, 2014 8:31pm
UglyTruth

Kea’s version: “As distinguished from law created by the enactment of legislatures, the common COMMON LAW 227 COMMON PLEAS law comprises the body of those principles and rules of action”

The actual text: “As distinguished from law created by the enactment of legislatures, the common law comprises the body of those principles and rules of action, relating to the government and security of persons and property, which derive their authority solely from usages and customs of immemorial antiquity, or from the judgments and decrees of the courts recognizing, affirming, and enforcing such usages and customs”

Are there some inconvenient facts abut the common law that you would rather ignore, Kea?

http://www.actsinjunction.info/glossary.html
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April 26, 2014 8:39pm
Lucia Maria

All_on_Red,

It seems that the extent of your argument is because of religious grounds America Good, Russia Bad.
Stunning.

And where did I make that argument?
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April 26, 2014 8:44pm
Viking2

Bring on the tears. Cunnliffe tries hard.

Speech to Young Labour Conference, Wellington, 26 April 2014.

You know, becoming the leader of a political party is a bit like becoming a first-time parent.

Children are like pirated software: they don’t come with a manual. Neither do political parties.
– See more at: http://www.sunlive.co.nz/news/70468-a-new-zealand-new-zealanders.html#sthash.7AyReSjr.dpuf
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April 26, 2014 8:44pm
Viking2

When you have dried your hankies here’s another view.

The departure of prominent Labour MP Shane Jones this week confirms that a Labour-Greens coalition stands for no growth and fewer jobs, Economic Development Minister Steven Joyce says.

Speaking at the National Party’s Lower North Island Regional Conference in Masterton this morning, Mr Joyce says Jones’ departure speaks volumes about the Labour-Greens policy prescription for New Zealand.

“Shane Jones has obviously realised that it is better to leave politics altogether than to stay for his best case scenario of being the Economic Development Minister in a government opposed to economic development. His comments this week have made that clear,” Mr Joyce says.

Mr Joyce says Jones’ decision is backed up by the number of anti-growth positions taken by the Greens, and by large elements of the Labour Party.

“They are opposed to the dairy industry, growth in farming more generally, oil and gas exploration, aquaculture, free trade agreements, international investment, 90 day trials, faster resource management decisions, and tax policies that reward people for working hard and getting ahead,” Mr Joyce says.
– See more at: http://www.sunlive.co.nz/news/70453-labourgreens-no-growth-coalition-confirmed.html#sthash.cYXWXdbG.dpuf
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April 26, 2014 8:46pm
Viking2

We need some of this round here.

http://screencast.com/t/4EuS06xp
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April 26, 2014 8:50pm
Viking2

Union welcomes sale of paper mills to Japan

Updated at 6:45 pm today

New Zealand’s biggest private sector union is welcoming the sale agreed by Carter Holt Harvey and Japanese interests.

Kinleith pulp & paper mill, Tasman pulp mill in Kawerau and Penrose paper mill are being sold to Japan’s Oji Holdings Corporation, and the state-backed Innovation Network Corporation of Japan.

The sale is worth $1.037 billion.

http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/business/242614/union-welcomes-sale-of-paper-mills-to-japan

http://home.nzcity.co.nz/news/article.aspx?id=186093&cat=976&fm=newsmain%2Cnarts
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April 26, 2014 8:55pm
Reid

Last time I talk about this. Boring.

Where’s the desecration exactly, now that the context has been broadened from what your links give?

So let’s get this perfectly straight.

You deny you’re in the matrix.

I give you a matrix operation and you don’t get it. (If you hallucinate it was just something that accidently happened, then how pray tell do you explain the instant global media pickup and ongoing coverage from what was a 1.5 minute event in an obscure church during daytime visiting hours which has now generated itself into a cause celebre? (I mean if this really happened in the real world then why don’t you get some sluts to make a similar video in St Mathews church in Akld, and see what happens? Think it’ll flash round the world?) Get a clue. Learn how these things work. Otherwise you’re a child in the playground. Sometimes it’s a matrix operation and sometimes it’s not, but if you don’t even know how they work, as you clearly don’t, then how the heck are you ever going to discern the difference?

And how can there be any desecration if you don’t believe in religion, thinking it to be man-made?

I don’t think religion is man-made Lucia and I never have. I’m not a Gnostic, that’s an accusation from an arrogant man with a theology degree who can’t understand how anyone can criticise the govt of Israel and yet still love Jews. That’s his problem but because he’s arrogant and has a theology degree he intellectualises an explanation to himself because he can’t hold two opposing concepts in his head at the same time and still continue to function.

But being unwilling to admit that to himself because he’s arrogant he then proceeds to do a most un-Christian thing in that without even knowing me and never having met me he then broadcasts his false conclusion reached through his own arrogance (just like pharisees did) which is bad enough but then some people like you who also don’t know me and have never met me pick it up.

Did you lookup those biblical references I gave the other day BTW? If you did, you’ll see my position equates to Jesus’ position. Same people Lucia, different time. Like I said, get a clue.

Yours in Christ.

With love, blessings and forgiveness.
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April 26, 2014 9:07pm
SGA

UglyTruth at 8:31 pm

Yeah, so people have different opinions about what deism is.
What is your point?

My original question, of course. What distinguishes your “simple theism” from what’s normally accepted as deism? I’m curious, is all. To me it looks a little as if you are trying to reinvent the wheel, in a manner of speaking.
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April 26, 2014 9:17pm
ShawnLH

“I’m not a Gnostic,”

Yes, you really are.

“that’s an accusation from an arrogant man with a theology degree”

Having a theology degree means I know Gnosticism when I see it.

“who can’t understand how anyone can criticise the govt of Israel and yet still love Jews.”

You don’t merely criticise the Israeli govt, you condemn it’s very existence, and you condemn all Jews who are Zionists, which is the vast majority, to being “Satanic Thugs”. You only “love” a tiny number of Jews who suit your anti-Jewish and anti-Zionist ideology.

“That’s his problem but because he’s arrogant and has a theology degree he intellectualises an explanation to himself”

You mean I use reason and genuine Christian theology to expose your Gnosticism and Jew hatred. I’m sure you think that arrogant, but the arrogance is all yours in perverting the Faith and the Bible to publicly promote your hatred of Israel and most Jews.
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April 26, 2014 10:54pm
itstricky

FYI – The Teenage Zionist Mutant Nepalese Ninja Freedom Fighters are Gnostic.
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April 26, 2014 10:58pm
Left Right and Centre

calendar girl – I typed your name correctly. The man’s name is Jack Tame – not Tane.
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April 27, 2014 3:27am
Left Right and Centre

Growing grapes for pissheads in rich countries. What a great use of arable land.
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April 27, 2014 3:33am
UglyTruth

My original question, of course. What distinguishes your “simple theism” from what’s normally accepted as deism?

Deism represent a more complex set of ideas, and some of the ideas about deism are contradictory.

I’m curious, is all. To me it looks a little as if you are trying to reinvent the wheel, in a manner of speaking.

All I’m doing is describing a minimalist set of beliefs necessary to remedy the corruption of the state. Simple theism fits the bill, and the recognition of the natural rights or life and liberty follow as logical developments of this idea.
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April 27, 2014 9:15am
UglyTruth

Having a theology degree means I know Gnosticism when I see it.

Non sequitur. You have a habit of trying to redefine language to fit your doctrine, Shawn.

You mean I use reason and genuine Christian theology to expose your Gnosticism and Jew hatred.

I’ve already shown you how reason is inconsistent with your Christian theology. You’ve already lied you way out of Reid’s argument about your inconsistency in applying the label of anti-semite.
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April 27, 2014 9:21am
SGA

UglyTruth at 9:15 am

My original question, of course. What distinguishes your “simple theism” from what’s normally accepted as deism?

Deism represent a more complex set of ideas, and some of the ideas about deism are contradictory.

OK, but in what way are the ideas of what’s normally accepted as deism more complex than “simple theism”. Sorry, but this important distinction isn’t at all clear to me.
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April 27, 2014 9:22am
UglyTruth

Deism may or may not reject sacred texts and prophetic revelation in favour of a purely rational description of the nature of the relationship between man and deity. Simple theism says nothing about prophetic revelation.
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April 27, 2014 9:26am
SGA

UglyTruth at 9:26 am

Deism may or may not reject sacred texts and prophetic revelation in favour of a purely rational description of the nature of the relationship between man and deity. Simple theism says nothing about prophetic revelation.

My understanding is that most deists reject sacred texts. So, is “simple theism” that sort of deism? Or does “simple theism” leave the door open to prophetic revelation. If the latter, isn’t “simple theism” more complicated than what most deists believe. Sorry, I’m still finding “simple theism” a somewhat elusive concept.
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April 27, 2014 9:33am

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