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April 23, 2014 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 23 April 2014

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duggledog

NZ Labour – dog tucker 20/09/2014

Their last visible MP who could connect with ordinary New Zealanders has gone. I don’t include O’Connor in this as he’s rarely heard of. He might as well go too, I would!

As I am so fond of saying, Nats will govern alone… if they want to
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April 23, 2014 8:01am
Colville

Breaking news…

This morning Shane Jones was quoted as saying …

“I woke up and realised I had made a mistake, there is no way I can leave politics, David Cun*life is such a nice guy and I want to go to my grave working for such a truthful honest Leader”

(ok so its not actually April 1st 🙂 )
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April 23, 2014 8:03am
hj

The Demolition of a Nation, One Step At A Time
http://www.immigrationwatchcanada.org/2014/03/06/demolition-nation-one-step-time/
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April 23, 2014 8:03am
ShawnLH

Supreme Court upholds Michigan affirmative action ban

“The Supreme Court has upheld Michigan’s affirmative action ban, ruling that the state has the right to determine whether racial preferences can be considered in college admissions.

In a 6-2 ruling on Tuesday, the justices said that a lower federal court was wrong to set aside the change as discriminatory. The Supreme Court ruled that Michigan voters had the right to change their state constitution to bar public colleges and universities from using race as a factor in admissions.

Justice Anthony Kennedy, writing for the majority, suggested that right extends even beyond college policies.

“There is no authority in the federal constitution or in the [courts’] precedents for the judiciary to set aside Michigan laws that commit to the voters the determination whether racial preferences may be considered in governmental decisions, in particular with respect to school admissions,” he wrote.”

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/04/22/supreme-court-upholds-michigan-affirmative-action-ban/
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April 23, 2014 8:07am
Left Right and Centre

Labour can’t keep up with the Jones’
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April 23, 2014 8:09am
ShawnLH

Raining on Bart Ehrman’s Easter parade

A group of biblical scholars respond to the anti-Christian author’s latest attack on the divinity of Jesus

“Easter is no longer just a time for Christians to celebrate the Resurrection and non-Christians to celebrate Easter bunnies. It’s also a time for anti-Christians to come out with highly publicized books attacking biblical accounts. Annually they debunk all the way to the bank. Bart Ehrman’s How Jesus Became God: The Exaltation of a Jewish Preacher from Galilee is one of this year’s efforts.

Happily, New Testament scholar Michael Bird and some of his colleagues have risen to the challenge by rapidly producing a response, How God Became Jesus: The Real Origins of Belief in Jesus’ Divine Nature—A Response to Bart D. Ehrman.

First we have Bird’s overall critique of Ehrman’s work, followed by, courtesy of Zondervan, excerpts from two chapters of this counter-Ehrman book, the first written by Bird and the second penned by another New Testament scholar, Simon Gathercole.”

http://www.worldmag.com/2014/04/raining_on_bart_ehrman_s_easter_parade
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April 23, 2014 8:12am
hj

Labour needs to appeal to it’s roots (the Sociology Department”s).
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April 23, 2014 8:13am
mjw

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
First it was Sky City. Then Oravida. Now National is using taxpayer funds to buy off opposition politicians. What’s next?

Meanwhile 14 National Party MPs are pushed out, no doubt to be replaced by John Key loyalists. I suppose the PM hopes to hold on until Max is old enough to take over, at which stage he can become Senior Minister Emeritus.
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April 23, 2014 8:17am
Ed Snack

mjw, I think you missed off the /sarcasm tag; because, surely, you can’t be that deluded ?
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April 23, 2014 8:20am
lilman

MJM,seriously you are badly out of touch with reality.
Its why Labour are in this position.
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April 23, 2014 8:20am
griffith

There is no god only deluded idiots

To scared to face reality without a prehistoric crutch of ignorance.

FFS keep your pathetic stone age faith to your self

It is absolutely disgusting to bring out your delusion daily on gd.

[Partly deleted by DPF and 50 demerits]
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April 23, 2014 8:24am
The only red for me is that of Manchester United

And Moyes has gone as well. There will be a drink tonight to celebrate Jones and Moyes departures!
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April 23, 2014 8:26am
mjw

Ed Snack – Lilman. I don’t really believe that of JK. He does seem a decent bloke. But it is exactly what happened in Singapore, where the opposition parties have been demolished and kept down by use of taxpayer funds and lawsuits. The current PM of Singapore is the son of Lee Kuan Yew, and they are pretty clearly now a monarchy with a supporting aristocracy that gets rich off special government deals.

So we need to remind JK, and ourselves, what lies at the end of this path. An extremely weak Labour party is bad for NZ. A government that uses taxpayer resources for political or personal purposes is bad for NZ.

Time for a change of government before this goes too far.

[Edit – Although at least Singapore retains a form of democracy, and that is an important check on the their incipient monarchy. So it could be worse]
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April 23, 2014 8:29am
igm

Shane would not turn the other cheek (so to speak), would not tolerate rainbow room fairy antics, and sure as hell would not be part of the McCarten leeching envy mindset. For all his shortcomings, he is at least a real man with a real family, and a wife addressed as Mrs. Tojo may be worried about O’Connor, he doesn’t seem to be a fairy, even Buffoon Cosgrove will need to be watched, Whirlings Circus are short of clowns.
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April 23, 2014 8:30am
hj

Free speech at the standard

SouthDeez 28
22 April 2014 at 9:51 pm

I was just wondering, how come Pete George’s ban was lifted?

[lprent: He got banned in August 2012 for (yet again) trying to tell us how we should run our site – something that we give fair warning about being dangerous to do in the policy.

We lifted all outstanding bans in a well publicised amnesty in March 2013. This gets done periodically because most humans do have this facility to be able to learn from experience, so we give them a chance to rejoin the noisy and robust arguments going on here.

His absence after that was purely voluntary.

He has been mostly been following the policy guidelines he started commenting again a month or so ago. Despite all of the moaning about his comments, he hasn’t really overstepped the bounds since. ]
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karol 28.1
22 April 2014 at 10:08 pm

There was an amnesty for all bans a while back.
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lprent 28.1.1
23 April 2014 at 12:44 am

Ummm. Must look at a amnesty again. It really has to be soon so we can eliminate the ones who are too dumb to read the policy before full-blown election season arrives. Or after the election.

There are a few still serving out long bans and about ten or twelve previous regulars who picked up permanent bans since March last year. Most bans of the latter were banned for trying diversion trolling at the top comments in posts. Haven’t really had to do any of those that I can remember since early this year.

That is a very dangerous sport that as who knows when we have time to bump their preferred posts to OpenMike. If we’re short of time, then we stop warning and start banning to reduce the workload. We find this kind of semi-random sentencing risk helps to ensure people are very cautious about their exposures to the edges of the policy.

Then there are a pile of simple trolls who got booted off the site after a couple of comments for being stupid trolls (we rather like playing with the smarter ones). We’d have to cull the ones who haven’t picked up the capabilities to survive here out again. Saw quite a few “first-timers” come through today who didn’t manage to write anything intelligent for any viewpoint in several comments and didn’t make it past first moderation.

At least they have an amnesty (unlike the Greens).
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April 23, 2014 8:30am
SGA

@ShawnLH at 8:12 am
Yet another day of not bringing up religion unless taunted by atheists (sigh)

@griffith at 8:24 am
If you don’t like it, stop fanning the flames.
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April 23, 2014 8:32am
lilman

1….2…..3…………

Cue Penny !!!!!!!!!!!
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April 23, 2014 8:34am
Elaycee

mjw: First it was Sky City. Then Oravida. Now National is using taxpayer funds to buy off opposition politicians. What’s next?

Well, you could start by telling the truth – a novel experience for you, but one you should try.

The drivel you posted yesterday suggesting the new Sky City Convention Centre was somehow going to cost the taxpayer $400 Million, was total bollocks. The costs will be borne by SCEG – as you have been told. Many times…

Oravida is a non-story being fuelled by a lapdog media devoid of any meaningful policy to promote on behalf of the left.

And now your suggestion Jones was ‘bought off’….

If you really believe that, then I can sell you the nice new, Kopu Bridge. At a special price just for you! 🙄
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April 23, 2014 8:34am
SGA

The only red for me is that of Manchester United (48 comments) at 8:26 am

And Moyes has gone as well.

Oh well, had to happen I suppose. No shopping for Brendan Rodgers, mind.
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April 23, 2014 8:36am
mjw

Elaycee. I do try to tell the truth. Sorry if I am not meeting your standards. Will try harder! For the record:

– Korda Mentha valued the benefit to Sky City of the regulatory concessions at $400m+.

– The PM said that if you have nothing to fear then you have nothing to hide. Why does this not apply to Oravida and his Justice minister? Nobody believes it was a personal dinner; her staffer went, the Ambassador was invited, and she briefed the Ambassador afterwards. Both the Justice Minster and PM have changed their story about this so many times I’ve lost count.

– And it’s not just me saying National have nobbled Jones with the offer of a government post, it’s half the pro-National commentators in the intersphere!
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April 23, 2014 8:39am
redqueen

MJW, sounds more like you’re talking about Labour under Clarkie… National isn’t attempting to create a cult of personality around JK or create a single-view party (‘we only want gay feminist trade unionists’). It’s regrettable for Labour, but the internal struggle which is being ever more won by the left can’t be palatable for their ‘right’, and so I can’t see much reason why someone like Jones would really want to stick around. Saying that this is ‘bad’ for democracy is nonsense. Labour will revive, at some point, or a new political party may come along that actually wants to represent the centre-left. Equally, after years of having micro-parties as a consequence of MMP, with two behemoths trying to represent ‘stable’ government, perhaps we’re moving back towards a more sensible position. Alas, I think NZ First may screw up this election and we’ll be stuffed with either a stark raving Rainbow Alliance or a National Government reliant on a devil in pursuit of baubles.
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April 23, 2014 8:45am
stephieboy

Shawn LH, Fox news and yourself pining for the good old days of segregation and Jim Crow.?
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April 23, 2014 8:45am
redqueen

In other news…yet more socialist nonsense:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11241853

If we are to assume that the State is paying for education (good or bad), surely it has a right to demand some form of actual ‘return’ for its ‘investment’. Decrying a loss of ‘independence’ sounds more like whining from socialists who don’t want people to actually get real jobs and don’t want to lose their cushy positions teaching young people that every heteorsexual male is a racist misogynsit who wants to rape the planet to death. Saying that this encourages ‘short term employment goals’ is utter nonsense. That’s right, having more people trained as engineers, scientists, and techies will be a terrible thing and is horribly short-sighted by Joyce…
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April 23, 2014 8:52am
mjw

redqueen – I agree with you. Labour deserved to lose in 2008, and they did. Also, I agree the pattern of behaviour from the Nats is not yet as bad as it was with Labour in their last term. But the signs are there. This government has lost its Mojo, and becoming more and more a government of plutocrats. Another term will see reams of incompetence, special deals, and abuse of office.

But I’m also puzzled why people persist in calling the Nats right wing. Yes they are pro-business, but right wing? Hardly. They are keen to reduce individual freedom and increase the power of government.
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April 23, 2014 8:53am
Elaycee

Not sure what happened then 😯 Lets try again….

mjw: Korda Mentha valued the benefit to Sky City of the regulatory concessions at $400m+.

Jesus wept! So they ‘valued the benefit’ of the SCEG proposed spend. So what? If there was not a benefit of more than $400 Million for SCEG, then do you think the Sky City shareholders (and bankers) would approve a spend of $402.3 Million to build it??? But I reiterate: nowhere in the KM Report does it suggest the taxpayer is required to pay for it. Because they’re not!

Now, if you can’t understand this, please get someone to explain it to you. Because I can’t explain it any clearer.

But in the meantime, stop telling porkies.
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April 23, 2014 8:57am
griffith

Actually I like making fun of spasms retarded god crap

Posting The stupidity of christians pathetic myths daily is the best advertisement for atheism yet .

A young girls says she didn’t have sex the baby just happened to be from god….. 😆 …really.. 😆

Ignorant gullible fools trying to inflict their stupidity on the rest of us.

Going to Church and the bible should be r18 minimum
Porn alcohol plastic pot violent movies etc have age restrictions so should the bible one of the most violent and disgusting books ever .Stop the brainwashing of innocents. You can have your personal delusion. The state should stop you spreading it to kids.
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April 23, 2014 9:00am
OneTrack

mjw – “An extremely weak Labour party is bad for NZ.”

So they should get their act together and, at least try to make themselves electable? But, no, they chose an idiotic narcisist as their leader, cuddled up to the unions, focussed on the important stuff (trailer registrations) and now they are actively burning off their non-gay, non-wimmin, members. Those members are starting to realise there is no place for them in Labour 2014.

Labour used to claim they were a “broad church”. They aren’t anymore.
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April 23, 2014 9:01am
stephieboy

Shane Jones purchased by Jk much like Hone purchased by .com.?
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April 23, 2014 9:02am
mjw

Elaycee – we agree that the government granted regulatory concessions to Sky City that had a value of at least $400m. To my mind, that means the government paid for the convention centre. It wasn’t free – they paid out a benefit. And bear in mind that value doesn’t include the harm of problem gambling, which Treasury acknowledged was serious but said was too hard to quantify. The government pays for that. Vulnerable people pay for that. Their communities pay for that. Sky City benefits.
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April 23, 2014 9:06am
Nookin

If an organisation’s turnover increases by $400m, or if its value goes up by that much, how is it a cost to the taxpayer? This is just the sort of zero-sum approach that destroys any credibility that the left may have. It is not about dividing the pie. It’s about creating a bigger pie.

Leftist wealth distribution is inherently counterproductive. Key, on the other hand, has created opportunities for employment, tourism and growth.
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April 23, 2014 9:06am
ShawnLH

“Shawn LH, Fox news and yourself pining for the good old days of segregation and Jim Crow.?”

Stephie, how is it you can make astute and intelligent comments one moment, and then batshit crazy ones the next?

Of course not, and if you have followed my posts, which I know you do, you know how passionately anti-racist I am.

But affirmative action strikes at the heart of a free society. It is in fact the Left’s version of segregation. People should get jobs or positions based solely on their ability and merit, without regard to race. One of the problems with some of the US’s inner cities is that affirmative action has passed over people with real talent in favour of people with the right skin colour. This leads to decline and the worst kind of racial crony-ism.

Affirmative action is also insulting to the minorities it is aimed at. It suggests they are not able to achieve on their own merits, but need a helping hand. That strikes me as a kind of paternalistic racism.
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April 23, 2014 9:07am
SGA

griffith at 9:00 am

Actually I like making fun of spasms retarded god crap

Whatever – you’re coming across rather “schoolboy” and boring though.
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April 23, 2014 9:07am
OneTrack

mjw – “Nobody believes it was a personal dinner;”

Actually many people do. Most people couldn’t care less. It was a dinner for god’s sake. It wasn’t a War Room meeting.
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April 23, 2014 9:07am
ShawnLH

Griff,

“Havent you got innocent kids to fiddle or some other christian distraction so I don’t have to read your filth”

You have 30 minutes to retract that post and apologise.

Accusing me of child molestation is way, way beyond what is reasonable, and I will take action if you fail to make this right.

What I choose to talk about on gd is my business, not yours. This is not your blog. Grow up.
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April 23, 2014 9:09am
OneTrack

mjw – “To my mind, that means the government paid for the convention centre. It wasn’t free – they paid out a benefit. ”

You are joking? Right?

So which government account did this $400 mill come from. What hospital couldnt be built because the givernment had “spent” the benefit on Sky City.
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April 23, 2014 9:11am
flipper

I doubt that one single Cun*liffe / union / socialist apologist writing above is aged much beyond 18 years.

They will may be vote for the first time on September 20.

They will then spend years 19, 20 and 21 sulking and telling the world that National ripped off the electorate, and years 22, 23 and 24 trying to take this nation back to 1908.

And some time after that, but long before they reach their mid thirties and vote in the 2035 General Election, they will finally realise that the socialist crap they were force-fed by the socialist teachers/lecturers is just that.

Sad, but true.
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April 23, 2014 9:12am
UglyTruth

Stephie, how is it you can make astute and intelligent comments one moment, and then batshit crazy ones the next?

Because you don’t think that they’re batshit crazy when he’s agreeing with you, Shawn.
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April 23, 2014 9:13am
Elaycee

@mjw: I call bullshit.

You claimed yesterday that the Convention Centre was to be funded to the tune of $400+ Million – by taxpayers.

That statement is total bollocks. A licence extension costs the taxpayer: Zero. Nil. Nada. Zip. Nothing. But we get a new Convention Centre in the Auckland CBD. A total no-brainer.

Now, until such time you can grasp very basic math, I’ll leave you alone to peddle your own ‘special’ brand of bollocks.
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April 23, 2014 9:17am
mjw

It’s an opportunity cost OneTrack. It is revenue foregone in financial terms. The convention centre was not free. The government chose to trade off the benefit of the regulatory concessions to get it built. In effect we paid for it.

But the bigger point is that the regulatory concessions stink. Would you be happy to see the government selling, say, a monopoly on beer production? They would certainly get extra revenue at no cost, right? Maybe the beer company would even build them a free motorway in return for the favour. But there is no way I would count that as free money or as a free motorway. Instead it would be the the sale of a monopoly.
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April 23, 2014 9:19am
mjw

Elaycee – post the quote please.
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April 23, 2014 9:20am
ShawnLH

SGA,

“Yet another day of not bringing up religion unless taunted by atheists (sigh)”

That was the case. No longer. The attempts by Griff to silence me have backfired.
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April 23, 2014 9:20am
UglyTruth

It was a dinner for god’s sake. It wasn’t a War Room meeting.

That’s like saying it was only a glass of milk. Context is everything.
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April 23, 2014 9:24am
griffith

😆

and posting christian crap daily is mature and intelligent. 😆

sorry spc if you don’t like it if I lower my self to christians level to point out their hypocrisy and pathetic myths.

The christ stain premise that I am going to be damned for eternity for unbelief in their superstition of god is far more childish and offensive than any post I have ever made.

Telling kids they’ll be damned for mans original sin is one of the greatest perversions perpetrated by organised religion.

NZ needs to r18 all churches and religious books at lest if not outright ban them to protect the innocent from their brainwashing propaganda.

organised religion is the church brainwashing kids.
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April 23, 2014 9:24am
SGA

ShawnLH at 9:20 am

“Yet another day of not bringing up religion unless taunted by atheists (sigh)”
That was the case. No longer.

Actually, it still IS the case that you brought it up.
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April 23, 2014 9:25am
Reid

Accusing me of child molestation is way, way beyond what is reasonable, and I will take action if you fail to make this right.

Whereas accusing me of hating Jews when I’ve explained my position many times yet you continue to persist in lying, is just fine, right?

The attempts by Griff to silence me have backfired.

What a pity.
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April 23, 2014 9:26am
ShawnLH

“Actually, it still IS the case that you brought it up.”

Yup. Like I said, the posts from Griff over the last few days have convinced me to change the rules.
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April 23, 2014 9:26am
ShawnLH

“Whereas accusing me of hating Jews when I’ve explained my position many times yet you continue to persist in lying, is just fine, right?”

Because as me, mike and others have pointed out, your explanation is not credible. Your view on this identical to classical anti-Semitism. All you have done is slightly changed the wording to provide a cover, and only a couple of days ago posted a link to a white supremacist web site.
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April 23, 2014 9:29am
Northland Wahine

Resorting to name calling so early in the morning with little fear of reprisal… A lot like parliament!
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April 23, 2014 9:31am
Keeping Stock

Here’s hoping Trevor Mallard is going to be running Labour’s social media efforts during the election campaign. He may well have been in shock last night, but shock and Twitter are not of necessity good bedfellows…

http://keepingstock.blogspot.co.nz/2014/04/tweet-of-day-22-april-2014.html
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April 23, 2014 9:32am
SGA

ShawnLH at 9:26 am

Yup. Like I said, the posts from Griff over the last few days have convinced me to change the rules.

Oh yeah – I bet it took lots of “convincing”.
Things to do – do at least try to play nicely children.
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April 23, 2014 9:33am
ShawnLH

And remember Reid, I’m not the only one saying the same thing, and it’s not as though you haven’t provided a great deal of evidence against yourself.

The vid we were discussing yesterday, in which Jews were blamed for the Russian revolution, is a standard ant-Semetic line.
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April 23, 2014 9:34am
dime

“Elaycee – we agree that the government granted regulatory concessions to Sky City that had a value of at least $400m. To my mind, that means the government paid for the convention centre.”

*shakes head*. you belong on the left.
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April 23, 2014 9:37am
wf

What does r18 mean?
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April 23, 2014 9:39am
Reid

Because me, mike and others have pointed out, your explanation is not credible. Your view on this identical to classical anti-Semitism.

Yes Shawn. This is the zionist definition of anti-Semitism right? Hurled around to shut people up? And they also accuse those hundreds of Jewish Rabbis who also see what I see and warn of, of being anti-Semitic too. Do you seriously think a Rabbi is anti-semitic? Just because zionists lay that accusation, doesn’t make it so, anymore than a communist accusing the West of being whatever makes that so. Get it? It’s not complicated.

All you have done is slightly changed the wording to provide a cover, and only a couple of days ago posted a link to a white supremacist web site.

No I posted a link to an article, and who cares what site it was on, that means something of significance only to people who can’t think. I told you on that same thread I didn’t know what the site was and that’s a fact, but as I say, it’s irrelevant anyway because information is information and it’s the article that’s relevant and the only thing that’s relevant.

Your accusation of me hating Jews or in fact, anyone, is as false as Griff’s comment toward your propensities is, yet you see no conflict whatsoever, do you. If anyone hates Shawn, it’s you, as proven by your comments here day after day after day. It’s a sign of low intelligence you know that people who have a certain propensity, such as to hate people, think that everyone else thinks like them.

The vid we were discussing yesterday, in which Jews were blamed for the Russian revolution, is a standard ant-Semetic line.

But you didn’t watch it so how would you know and yet you’re quite happy to hurl venom. It happens to be the truth that most of the Bolshevik leaders WERE Jews who say they are but who are not. To establish that all you need to do is educate yourself but you’re not prepared to do that, are you. The accusations I and many others make are not anti-semitic, they’re the historical truth. Think Churchill was anti-semitic? Look at what he said about the Bolsheviks, in that link I gave the other day.
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April 23, 2014 9:40am
Elaycee

mjw: Elaycee – post the quote please.

Try this: mjw (47 comments) says: April 22nd, 2014 at 6:47 pm. The cost to the taxpayer is conservatively estimated in the Korda Mestha report at $400+ million… (My emphasis but your typo).

A quote. Your statement. But it wasn’t from the KordaMentha Report at all. You made it up. You told porkies.

That’s why I called bullshit. Because it was.
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April 23, 2014 9:41am
stephen2d

Where are all these biggoted North Americans coming from (other than North America, duh!) with their religious views, hatred and other utter shit that no one cares about? Harping about hate of Jews, of Islam, etc.

Anyway, Moyes sacked, Jones quits – the latest conspiracy theory is that he is going to be appointed the manager of Man U!
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April 23, 2014 9:42am
Manolo

On the American decline: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/23/upshot/the-american-middle-class-is-no-longer-the-worlds-richest.html?hp
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April 23, 2014 9:44am
mikenmild

mjw and Elaycee are talking past one another. The $400 million cost is not borne by the taxpayers directly. The deal allows Sky City to vacuum an additional $400 million from the pockets of those people who will be feeding the pokie machines. Either way, the cost is borne by the community. Sky City isn’t providing something for nothing.
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April 23, 2014 9:44am
ShawnLH

“This is the zionist definition of anti-Semitism right? Hurled around to shut people up?”

No, it’s the JEWISH definition of anti-Semitism. And once again, most Zionists are Jews. your twisting and turning on that issue is not credible. And accusing vast numbers of Zionist Jews of being “Satanic thugs” is yet more evidence.

“No I posted a link to an article, and who cares what site it was on, that means something of significance only to people who can’t think. ”

If your posting from the same sources as White Supremacists, that means a great deal to people who can think.

Your just making excuses Reid, and they are not remotely convincing.
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April 23, 2014 9:45am
Ross12

A possible major downside to the Shane Jones situation is that the Green support will increase. I hope I am proved wrong on this!!
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April 23, 2014 9:45am
flipper

mjw (47 comments) says:

April 23rd, 2014 at 9:19 am

It’s an opportunity cost OneTrack. It is revenue foregone in financial terms. The convention centre was not free. The government chose to trade off the benefit of the regulatory concessions to get it built. In effect we paid for it.

*****

Elaycee…don’t bother responding. This new comer is as thick as pig shit.

It has its economics 101 screwed. Opportunity Cost relates to an investment or development opportunity NOT exploited. Or to time/effort/investment that could be more productive if spent in other ways. Regulations imposed for “social good” (the wowser justification) do not represent an investment/development opportunity.

But then this 18 year old would believe in flying pigs and Elvis.
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April 23, 2014 9:45am
Albert_Ross

I have a question which I put out of idle curiosity.

There’s been media discussion recently about Benji Marshall’s not very successful switch from league to rugby.

Do players ever make the switch in the opposite direction? Not counting Sonny Bill Williams, who went back having come from league in the first place. Why/why not? Is the money better in rugby?
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April 23, 2014 9:47am
mjw

Elaycee – if you take that to mean out of pocket cost (cash), then I happily withdraw that. My intention is only to consider opportunity cost. I did not mean to imply cash cost, but see how you could interpret it in that way. Sorry for any misunderstanding.

[Edit: Filpper: taking your definition, could the Government not have extracted the same value by charging a fee for license renewal and expansion? That certainly seems to fit your definition of opportunity cost. Also, I really don’t think abuse makes your argument more credible]
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April 23, 2014 9:49am
griffith

“You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.

Is there any one on here does this on a regular basis?

One guess

Calls Reid a nazi and me a gaia worshiper.

both of these are lies

A christian 😆 Crist stain more like it

Nutters So often don’t follow the teachings they try to inflict on others.

Typical christian hypocrite

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaia_hypothesis
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April 23, 2014 9:50am
mikenmild

Albert
I think the money is better in union these days. I can’t think of a high profile union player who has switched recently.
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April 23, 2014 9:51am
dime

Dime was listening to ZB this morning. Hosking had some nerd on from the “dont run over kids” foundation or whatever its called.

Apparently, this RIGHT WING govt has just pumped 30 million dollars into making drive ways safer.

Give me fucking strength!

I wonder what freedom Dime will lose to ensure no kid gets run over in a drive way. Course, whatever they come up with will barely work.

It wouldnt surprise me if driveways end up being fenced like swimming pools.

wont someone think of the children??

imagine all the JOBS! so many fences needing built! and all that inspector cash for the councils. oh christ its exciting!
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April 23, 2014 9:52am
Reid

No, it’s the JEWISH definition of anti-Semitism.

No, moron. It’s the definition made by jews who say they are but who are not and it’s used to stifle debate, as John Walt also said in the vid I posted yesterday. It happens all the time. This is why they call you a useful idiot. Because you’re so self-righteous you don’t even do any research yourself, before you “know” the truth and then like a demented zealot run around doing their dirty work for them.

And accusing vast numbers of Zionist Jews of being “Satanic thugs” is yet more evidence.

If a group of people was out to destroy the Jewish people by setting up a fifth column inside their nation, what would you call them? Your heroes? As I said Shawn, Jesus will judge us both, and He doesn’t look kindly on bearing false witness, pride and arrogance.

BTW, answer the question please: was Churchill anti-semitic? He makes the same allegation I do about the Bolsheviks, so was he or not? Yes or no?
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April 23, 2014 9:53am
Northland Wahine

More money on rugby… Think about it. League players move to countries like to Japan to play rugby. That’s not for the love of the game… Money talks and they have a living to make.
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April 23, 2014 9:53am
infused

Who the fuck would want to comment @ The Standard anyway. Bunch of fucking morons. Especially OAK. Biggest angry retard there, next to felix and tracy.

Pretty sure none of them work as they comment there 24/7.
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April 23, 2014 9:54am
mikenmild

Jews are Jews. Reid has absolutely no evidence of any group of ‘false Jews’. It’s just a piece of anti-Semitic weasel wording.
BTW – is John Key a ‘false Jew’?
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April 23, 2014 9:54am
Elaycee

@Flipper: You’re on the money:

Elaycee…don’t bother responding. This new comer is as thick as pig shit.

Agree.
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April 23, 2014 9:54am
Yvette

Penny, Shane Jones may baulk a little at drinking milk with Chinese guests at private dinners, but it will be less job-threatening than Judith Collins doing it.

So that is fixed 🙂
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April 23, 2014 9:55am
publicwatchdog

Here you go Kiwibloggers – this OIA reply should be FASCINATING …..

OIA acknowledgment from Minister of Foreign Affairs Murray McCully’s Ministerial Secretary received 9.25am today 23 April 2014:

Dear Ms Penny Bright,

On behalf of Hon Murray McCully, Minister of Foreign Affairs, thank you for your correspondence of 22 April requesting information regarding any involvement of the New Zealand Ambassador to China in Minister Collins’ Oravida dinner.

You will receive a reply within 20 working days as required by the Official Information Act.

Yours sincerely,

Holly

Holly Bennett | Ministerial Secretary | Office of Hon Murray McCully
Minister of Foreign Affairs | Minister for Sport and Recreation
6.1 Executive Wing Beehive | Parliament Buildings | Wellington 6160 | New Zealand
____________________________________________________________________________________________

22 April 2014

NZ Minister for Foreign Affairs
Murray McCully

‘Open Letter’ /OIA request to NZ Minister for Foreign Affairs Murray McCully – what was the involvement of the NZ Ambassador to China (Carl Worker) in Judith Collins’ ‘private’ Oravida dinner?

Dear Minister,

Please provide the following information which confirms;

1) Who invited Carl Worker, the NZ Ambassador to China, to this Oravida ‘private’ dinner?

2) Why the NZ Ambassador to China, Carl Worker, declined to attend this Oravida ‘private’ dinner.

3) In what capacity did Minister of Justice Judith Collins speak “.. to the ambassador about the dinner the following day and told him “nothing had occurred that was untoward and it was just a very private friendly dinner that was short”.

ie: As a private citizen, or as the Minister for Justice?

4) Did Judith Collins speak to Carl Worker in his capacity as NZ Ambassador to China, regarding this Oravida ‘private’ dinner?

5) Please provide copies of ALL information, ‘briefing notes’ / emails / notes of telephone messages/ memos / minutes /reports (and the like)
between Judith Collins (Minister for Justice) and Carl Worker (NZ Ambassador to China) relating to this matter.

BACKGROUND INFORMATION:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=11240640

“Justice Minister Judith Collins has recovered her memory after telling Parliament she could not recall whether she had briefed New Zealand’s ambassador to Beijing about her Oravida dinner.
…..
In Parliament’s last session before a two-week recess, she again refused to identify the official she dined with, said she did not know of Oravida’s difficulties in the Chinese market before the dinner, and said she could not remember whether she had briefed ambassador to Beijing Carl Worker about the dinner.

She told the Weekend Herald she didn’t believe she had spoken about the dinner to Mr Worker beyond an initial discussion beforehand when he said he would not attend.

But on Thursday evening, she said she had checked her notes and believed she had spoken to the ambassador about the dinner the following day and told him “nothing had occurred that was untoward and it was just a very private friendly dinner that was short”.

She said Mr Worker had asked her on the day of the dinner to just let him know if there was anything that he needed to know about.
…….”
_______________________________________________________

Yours sincerely,

Penny Bright

……………………
…………………….

‘Anti-corruption / anti-privatisation Public Watchdog’

Attendee: 2009 Australian Public Sector Anti-Corruption Conference
Attendee: 2010 Transparency International Anti-Corruption Conference
Attendee: 2013 Australian Public Sector Anti-Corruption Conference

2013 Auckland Mayoral candidate, polling 4th with 11,723 votes campaigning against corrupt corporate control of the Auckland region

http://www.pennybrightformayor.org.nz
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April 23, 2014 9:56am
Northland Wahine

Dime, for the life of me, I can not understand why it is hard to ensure kids aren’t behind a reversing car. Call it a tragic accident, a moments carelessness, whatever…

Result is a dead child because some dumb arse adults didn’t take the time to check where the kid was.
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April 23, 2014 9:56am
ShawnLH

“you don’t even do any research yourself, before you “know” the truth”

I have done a lot of research over the years on anti-Semitism Reid. I just do not consider far right White Supremacist web sites as viable sources of accurate information, nor the kind of Russian neo-Nazi vids based on the ‘Protocols of the Elders of Zion’ to be accurate sources of information about Jewish people.

The only person in this being gullible and unthinkingly swallowing propaganda is you.
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April 23, 2014 10:00am
UglyTruth

Reid has absolutely no evidence of any group of ‘false Jews’.

I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.
Rev 2:9

The anti-Semites will become our most dependable friends, the anti-Semitic countries our allies.” (The Complete Diaries of Theodor Herzl. Vol. 1, edited by Raphael Patai, translated by Harry Zohn, page 84)
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April 23, 2014 10:01am
ShawnLH

“Result is a dead child because some dumb arse adults didn’t take the time to check where the kid was.”

Agreed. I wonder how many drivers do a check before even getting in the car. I sure as hell always do. You just never know.
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April 23, 2014 10:02am
ShawnLH

Well, he won’t be able to deal with it for a few days, but I have laid a complaint with DPF. He can deal with/to Griff when he returns.
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April 23, 2014 10:04am
Reid

Reid has absolutely no evidence of any group of ‘false Jews’.

There’s plenty of evidence but you haven’t bothered to look at it mm. I told you yesterday, summarise the main accusations, give me the sites you’ve looked at and allow me to ask you some questions to prove you’ve read them. But neither you nor Shawn are interested in taking that up, are you. So until you do, don’t say there’s no evidence, just tell the truth, and say you haven’t yet read any yourself and until you have you’re not in a position to make an informed judgement.

I have done a lot of research over the years on anti-Semitism Reid.

Well duh. That’s like saying you’ve read the 911 Commission Report and you’ve concluded the official story fits all the known facts and there’s nothing further to discuss. What a moronic approach to education you have Shawn.

And for the third time, answer the question, moron. Was Churchill anti-semitic. Yes or no?
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April 23, 2014 10:05am
Sofia

Despite his successes, Jones’ political career was blighted by controversy. In 2009, the release of ministerial credit card details showed he had been using his to watch porn in hotel rooms although he had repaid the amounts in question.

Why was Shane Jones dropped in it, when Cunliffe with his private trust hasn’t been yet, “although he had repaid the amounts in question”
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April 23, 2014 10:06am
Pete George

[lprent: He got banned in August 2012 for (yet again) trying to tell us how we should run our site – something that we give fair warning about being dangerous to do in the policy.

What happened was that after yet another swarm of attacks and abuse I politely suggested that The Standard would be taken more seriously and respected more if the tone and behaviour improved.

The swarms of attacks and abuse still happen.

Labour haven’t improved either and it looks like they are in the crap.
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April 23, 2014 10:08am
mikenmild

Ugly
It’s been pointed out to you several times that the Herzl quote does not mean what you think it means. So every time you use it you are flaunting your ignorance.
Now, according to you I don’t have to pay my rates, right?
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April 23, 2014 10:09am
mikenmild

Reid
Is DPF a ‘false Jew”?
Why has Churchill’s anti-Semitism become an issue?
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April 23, 2014 10:10am
ShawnLH

“But neither you nor Shawn are interested in taking that up, are you.”

Because they will provide no evidence that I have not already seen. I already know about the so-called evidence you cite Reid. It’s nothing new. And it’s not credible.

“That’s like saying you’ve read the 911 Commission Report and you’ve concluded the official story fits all the known facts and there’s nothing further to discuss.”

Bollocks. Researching anti-Semitism by consulting Jewish sources rather than Neo-Nazi and White supremacist stories is by far and away a more valid approach.
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April 23, 2014 10:11am
Reid

Was Churchill anti-semitic? Yes or no?

Why has Churchill’s anti-Semitism become an issue?

Ah, so you say he was then mm. How about you Shawn? What’s the answer from you?
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April 23, 2014 10:17am
David Garrett

PG: I am intrigued…why do you bother trying to comment at the Stranded?? You are never going to convince any of them of anything..unlike the breadth of commenter POV here they are (almost) all shrill far lefties/marxists…why do you bring the grief on yourself?
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April 23, 2014 10:18am
griffith

Well, he won’t be able to deal with it for a few days, but I have laid a complaint with DPF. He can deal with/to Griff when he returns.

😆

run to daddy because nasty Griff as rude and points out my hypocrisy .

Another ban for trolling christians. You fucken christians troll me constantly with the religious crap I am exposed to daily on the streets in the papers and on here. christians don’t like it when I persecute them . Its only just after 2000 years of christians persecution of any and all who disagree with them.

Lets reinstate burning of heretics. Anti science ones . nothing like a good fire to cleanse the soul according to christen doctrine so let’s do to to them for the next 2000 years

[DPF: 20 more demerits. Troll elsewhere]
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April 23, 2014 10:19am
mikenmild

Reid
I’ll repeat, why is Churchill’s anti-Semitism an issue? Did it influence your anti-Semitism?
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April 23, 2014 10:22am
Reid

Because they will provide no evidence that I have not already seen. I already know about the so-called evidence you cite Reid. It’s nothing new. And it’s not credible.

OK then. Give me a list of the top ten books on the subject and a precis of the main theses in each. Since you “already know about the so-called evidence” this should be no problem. Unless you’re lying. Which alternative is more likely, I wonder.

And for the fifth time, was Churchill anti-semitic? Yes or no?

why is Churchill’s anti-Semitism an issue?

I’ll answer that when Shawn gives me his answer.
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April 23, 2014 10:25am
UglyTruth

It’s been pointed out to you several times that the Herzl quote does not mean what you think it means.

Bullshit. The text makes it clear that Herzl wrote that some anti-semites were respectable, and that that anti-semitic countries would be the allies of Zionists.

“It would be an excellent idea to call in respectable, accredited anti-Semites as liquidators of property. To the people they would vouch for the fact that we do not wish to bring about the impoverishment of the countries that we leave. At first they must not be given large fees for this; otherwise we shall spoil our instruments and make them despicable as ‘stooges of the Jews.’ Later their fees will increase, and in the end we shall have only Gentile officials in the countries from which we have emigrated. The anti-Semites will become our most dependable friends, the anti-Semitic countries our allies.” (The Complete Diaries of Theodor Herzl. Vol. 1, edited by Raphael Patai, translated by Harry Zohn, page 83-84)
http://www.truetorahjews.org/herzl
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April 23, 2014 10:25am
Lucia Maria

Reid,

The problem with using information from Neo-Nazi and While supremacists sites is that even while some of the information may be true; directing people to that info in it’s entirety risks them thinking, “Man, yes those Jews are a problem – I’m going to become a neo-Nazi since they’re the only ones that know what is going on!”

You may think you know what information there is true and therefore valid to pluck out, but in my opinion it’s best to treat the whole package as tainted and get better sources, if you are trying to (in your mind) help people figure out what is going on in the world.

I personally am aware that most of the top Bolshevik leaders were Jewish (atheistic Jews) and that Karl Marx was Jewish but his family converted to Christianity when he was a child, and then he became an atheist when he was older. But so what? That does not therefore mean that Israel is the spiritual heir of Communism. It doesn’t really mean anything much, in my opinion.
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April 23, 2014 10:27am
ShawnLH

“run to daddy because nasty Griff as rude and points out my hypocrisy .”

No, you strongly hinted, and that’s putting it mildly, of child molestation.

That’s not just “rude” nor is pointing out hypocrisy.

It’s just cowardly bullying, and the kind of thing I could haul your ass into court for.

Ironically, the only reason I’m not taking that course of action, is the very same Christian belief your so opposed to.

But keep on that same path Griff, and things will turn out badly for you.
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April 23, 2014 10:28am
dirty harry

Next up…Minister for Driveways…

Pull ya head in National you looking more and more like klarkula everyday..Get the fuck out of our lives you interfering busy bodies.
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April 23, 2014 10:28am
Reid

Jerusalem greeted Herzl appropriately and, excommunicated and ostracized, he was compelled to sit alone during his entire stay in Jerusalem. This was after a strict warning was issued by the rabbi of Jerusalem, Rabbi Shmuel Salant, “that no one should draw near to him or give him a place in the Jewish area of Jerusalem.” (Mara D‟ara Yisroel v. 2 p. 45)
Rabbi Yosef Meir Weiss,Rebbe of Spinka, Hungary (1838-1909)

http://www.nkusa.org/Historical_Documents/TheRabbisSpeakOut.htm

Was Rabbi Shmuel Salant anti-semitic too?
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April 23, 2014 10:29am
Lucia Maria

Didn’t Kea get banned for calling people child molesters? I think it was the accumulation of comments that did her in – Griffith would be well warned to cool it.
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April 23, 2014 10:30am
dime

“Australia will make one of its biggest ever military purchases with a $12 billion order for 58 Joint Strike Fighters in a move that will lift the nation’s air combat power to among the world’s most advanced.”

Thanks for doing your bit aussie! and doing our bit too!
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April 23, 2014 10:31am
nasska

Shawn

So if Griff carries on the same path things will turn out badly for him.

Does the length of the path determine the depth of your Christian belief?
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April 23, 2014 10:32am
griffith

Child molestation
Kiddy fiddling christianity based politicians is a fact not a myth in NZ.

Are you ?
Graham John Capill (born 1959) is a former New Zealand Christian leader and politician. He served as the first leader of the now-defunct Christian Heritage Party, stepping down in 2003. In 2005 he was convicted of multiple sexual offences against girls under 12 years of age and sentenced to nine years imprisonment. He was released on parole in August 2011, having served six years of that sentence.
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April 23, 2014 10:32am
wikiriwhis business

Dime

They had permission from the US as a strategic plan to combat China.
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April 23, 2014 10:32am
ShawnLH

“Didn’t Kea get banned for calling people child molesters? I think it was the accumulation of comments that did her in – Griffith would be well warned to cool it.”

Yes, and Griff is on a slippery slope.

Naaska, do you think random accusations of child molestation legitimate?
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April 23, 2014 10:38am

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