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April 16, 2014 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 16 April 2014

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UglyTruth

The latest allegations levelled by NZ First leader Winston Peters under parliamentary privilege were that Collins went to the rescue of Oravida after it wrote to the Government seeking assistance after the Fonterra botulism scare last year.

The letter said Oravida had been “profoundly negatively” affected by the disaster and urged “ministers and the New Zealand Government to help us to navigate through this difficult time”.

Collins has avoided the media, but told RadioLive today the allegations made by Peters were “utterly untrue”.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/9949636/Judith-Collins-dubbed-minister-of-corruption
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April 16, 2014 7:27pm
SPC

The real question is why so much has to be invested in new plant to manufacture milk powder (because of a surplus of local milk) when it is possible to send it direct to China as Oravida does. If there was greater volume it would be easier to get systems set up to get it through Chinese customs.
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April 16, 2014 7:31pm
stephieboy

UT , the flash very conveniently visually untraceable and undetectable. Also William Rodriguez and those he mostly rescued very conveniently escaping vaporization or flash burns.
I wonder if Fox , Fetzer etc have submitted their findings for peer review with say the American Nuclear Society,

http://www.ans.org/
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April 16, 2014 7:31pm
UglyTruth

And evidence that any such weapons actually exist?

Kuta Beach, Bali.

“Australia tourist Rachel Hughes, 18, said she and a friend had just arrived in Kuta when the blast occurred. Standing in the foyer of the Bounty Hotel, ‘people were just walking in, blood dripping off them, burns to their face, skin coming off them,’ she told Australia’s Seven Network.”

” In the words of a tourist who earlier survived attacks on London during the nineties, ‘I felt my hotel shake violently and ran to look out of the window. In the distance I could see a large white mushroom cloud, and knew I wasn’t looking at an ordinary attack’.”

In an interview tonight on ABC television’s Foreign Correspondent, Bashir claims the device that killed most people in the Bali attack was a Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) “micro-nuclear” bomb.
http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/bashir-blames-bali-on-cia-bomb/2006/08/29/1156816891620.html

Also now at the bottom of the ocean off Bali is the reinforcing bar (rebar) located more than fifty feet from ground zero that had been completely stripped of concrete as a result of the blast. Documented military estimates of the force required to accomplish this is roughly 1 million to 1.5 million pounds per square inch.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article1451.htm
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April 16, 2014 7:44pm
stephieboy

9/11 Truthers laughably squabbling amongst themselves about the ludicrous implausibility of nukes vs the equally ludicrous energy directed particle beams,

http://www.checktheevidence.com/cms/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=167&Itemid=60

The evidence of a micro nuclear device at Bali from the one who should know, the convicted bashir
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April 16, 2014 7:45pm
mikenmild

No Ugly, any actual evidence. Not a far-fetched allegation that a micronuke was used in a different attack. BTW, why was no thermal pulse, shockwave or radiation observed at the twin towers?
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April 16, 2014 7:54pm
nasska

“I’ve had it with my wife.” said the one drinking buddy
to the other. “I’m filing for an divorce.”

“Sorry to hear that mate.” said his partner. “May I ask why?”

“I found her supply of birth control pills.” said the first.

“Listen Frank, with all due respect to your religion, I just
can’t see leaving your wife for what the Church says is
a sin.”

“It ain’t just that.” stormed Frank. “I had a vasectomy
over five years ago.”
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April 16, 2014 8:00pm
mandk

UT: “Possible yields of individual micronukes could be 0.01 to 0.01 kilotons, much smaller than that of low-yield tactical nuclear weapons.”

That’s still the equivalent of 10 tons of TNT going off. That would make quite a flash and bang.
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April 16, 2014 8:06pm
UglyTruth

No Ugly, any actual evidence.

An energy signature consistent with a nuclear explosion is actual evidence.

BTW, why was no thermal pulse, shockwave or radiation observed at the twin towers?

The thermal energy melted steel and converted concrete to fine dust.
The shockwave was measured seismically.
Radiation was not measured because investigators were kept away from the crime scene.

The seismic signals propagating from New York on September 11, 2001, recorded at Palisades (34 km) and published by the Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory of Columbia University (LDEO), have here been subjected to a new critical study concerning their sources. The aim of this paper is to demonstrate that the nature of the waves, their velocities, frequencies, and magnitudes invalidate the official explanations which imply as sources the percussion of the twin towers by planes and the collapses of the three buildings, WTC1, WTC2 and WTC7.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/seismic-evidence-implies-controlled-demolition-on-911/5313720
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April 16, 2014 8:13pm
Reid

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/04/15/358697/us-caught-in-big-lie-over-brennan/
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April 16, 2014 8:18pm
SPC

Ugly Truth, is there evidence that micro nukes exist and who has them?
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April 16, 2014 8:25pm
Reid

Ugly Truth, is there evidence that micro nukes exist and who has them?

Of course. Library of Congress ref: 15467764311.54979

Why do you ask?

Doesn’t everyone know?
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April 16, 2014 8:34pm
UglyTruth

is there evidence that micro nukes exist and who has them?

The carrying case for the W54 Special Atomic Demolition Munition (SADM). The SADM had a yield of 0.01, or 0.02-1 kiloton and was operationally deployed between 1964 and 1988. The entire unit weighed less than 163 pounds (74 kilograms).

http://www.brookings.edu/about/projects/archive/nucweapons/madm

http://www.nuclearweaponarchive.org/Israel/index.html
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April 16, 2014 8:39pm
Yoza

Manolo (12,607 comments) says:
April 16th, 2014 at 6:29 pm

Over here the loathsome comrade Norman is crying foul.

Yes, this is because it was an extra-judicial killing. The only reason we have to suppose these people are guilty of anything is the say so of agencies which have next to no accountability and a history of fabricating evidence and using torture as a means of collecting intelligence.
We do not know whether these people were guilty of anything, all we know is some more people were murdered in a US drone strike.
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April 16, 2014 8:43pm
SPC

Ugly Truth, is there any evidence that anyone apart from the USA had mini nukes for the purpose of demolition?

Or that any mini nukes had been lost by those who had them?
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April 16, 2014 8:48pm
Reid

UT sometimes I wonder if it blew up in their face but the media said it didn’t, which version they’d believe.
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April 16, 2014 8:48pm
Johnboy

‘Whats the difference between a cow and 9/11?”

Americans can’t milk a cow for 12 years. 🙂
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April 16, 2014 8:52pm
stephieboy

This from one Andrew jackson from my previous link about the implausibility and improbability of mini nukes on 9/11,

“The problems with both the Thermite theory and the “Nuke” theory are that they cannot explain any of the evidence listed below.

1) There were no really bright flashes as the towers turned to dust.
2) There were no loud explosions as the towers turned to dust.
3) There was little or no heat in the dust cloud.
4) To my knowledge, there is no publicly viewable research on small, concealable nuclear explosives.
5) Nuclear explosives cannot account for the 24-foot circular holes seen in the buildings and in the street.
6) The nuke or “large explosive/incendiary” does not explain the flipped cars and vehicles.

So, for those saying nuke explosions did it, they aren’t like any other type of nuke seen – they are almost silent, give off no light and no heat. People have criticised Dr Wood for not being able to give the “serial number” of the weapon used. Well, all that I have seen for the nuke explanation is reference to some odd looking “micro nuke” kit on Joe Vialls’ website. If Dr Ward or any other researcher can point me in the direction of credible analysis or discussion of these supposed “micronukes”, then I am happy to look at it and consider in view of the evidence.

Again I’d like to add there is zilch evidence from survivors and especially crucial ones like William Rodriguez, including David Felipe.
His burns are more consistent with a fireball going down the lift shafts from the AA 11 impact..
One can only conclude that Fox and Fetzer are in fact deluded. Note its apparent they’ve consistently failed to submit their findings to any decent kind of peer review like the American Nuclear society or a University based Professorial panel ”

Oh Reid the irony. Truthers are very mixed up and divided over this as you have so aptly demonstrated .
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April 16, 2014 8:55pm
Johnboy

Q: What’s Al Qaeda’s favorite football team?

A: The New York Jets

Q: What was the last thing going through Mr. Jones’ head when he was working on the World Trade Center’s 90th floor? A: The 91st floor.

Q: What’s the last thing that went through the minds of the 9/11 jumpers?

A: Their ankles.

Q: What color were Mohammed Atta’s eyes?

A: Blue. One blue this way, the other blue that way!

Q: What kind of pizzas did they last order at the World Trade Center?

A: Two large planes!

What does WTC stand for? – “What Trade Center?”

Q: Who are the fastest readers in the world?

A: New Yorkers. Some of them go through 110 stories in 5 seconds

Q: Why do tourists flock to New York?

A: It’s a blast

The New Name for New York City: “Manflatten”

Today FBI concluded that New York had been hit by a U.F.M (unidentified flying muslim)

Q: What did one terrorist say to the other terrorist before boarding their respective airplanes?

A: I slam, you slam, we all slam for Islam!

NEWSFLASH…. The WTC has been destroyed…. thousands of New York executives feared dead…. Hookers all across the city are in mourning…..

Q: Why didn’t Superman stop the planes from hitting the Trade Towers?

A: Because he’s a quadriplegic!

Q: What should have tipped off the ticket sellers?

A: When the terrorists asked if there was anything cheaper than one-way.

Q: What was the quickest escape time from the World Trade Center?

A: Ten seconds flat.
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April 16, 2014 8:58pm
Johnboy

My dad died on Sept 11th 2001, he was in one of the planes. I will never forget his last words.

Other person: What were they?

They were… Allahu Akbar!
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April 16, 2014 9:04pm
stephieboy

The real sounds / audio of controlled demolition compared to WTC. The comparisons are stark and revealing . Do note especially the tell tale boom, boom, crack, crack etc conspicuously absent on 9/11.
Also absolutely no evidence of explosions of any kind coming from the base of the WTC Towers,

https://www.metabunk.org/threads/9-11-seismic-analysis-indicative-of-explosions.1021/

and the myths and lies of so called seismic proofs,

http://www.911myths.com/html/seismic_proof_.html
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April 16, 2014 9:27pm
Reid

Also absolutely no evidence of explosions of any kind coming from the base of the WTC Towers,

Says stephie, having sagely and astutely examined ONLY the sites likely to verify his predetermined assumption…

ONLY of course, being a word not entering into the consciousness of the “wise” and “astute” stephie…
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April 16, 2014 10:05pm
stephieboy

Reid, we await at last you presentation of the proof and evidence of the aforesaid.

Waiting, waiting , waiting…………..!

Why,?

There is simply none.!
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April 16, 2014 10:18pm
Reid

Reid, we await at last you presentation of the proof and evidence of the aforesaid.

Why dost thou await like a slack-jawed yokel stephie-junior-boy-minor-Mark-II?

See, der, duh and d’oh: You can get proof of the explosions from the video I posted a week ago, but apparently, you’re not interested in even watching it, otherwise you’d have known that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XRMrMdn0NQ

So what’s the point, if the evidence is posted but ya can’t even bring your moronic stoopid little self to even examine it?
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April 16, 2014 10:26pm
Pete George

Karam awarded $535,000 over defamation

Joe Karam has been awarded $535,000 in a defamation case against two men who launched an “all-out assault” on his reputation because of his support for David Bain.

The online comments by Kent Parker and Victor Purkiss accused Mr Karam of being dishonest in his motivations for helping Mr Bain after he was cleared in 2009 of murdering five members of his family.

Some of the remarks compared him to a Nazi leader, and one used his name to coin a word — “Karamalisation” — to describe how he allegedly misrepresented facts.

Mr Karam said the public campaign against his integrity was the “worst four years” of his life, and Justice Patricia Courtney said she believed the former All Black.

In her ruling, released yesterday, the judge identified about 50 defamatory statements published on Facebook and on a private website by Mr Parker and Mr Purkiss — members of the Justice for Robin Bain group — to which there was no defence.

She ordered Mr Parker to pay damages of $350,500 and Mr Purkiss to pay $184,500.

She further punished the men by awarding indemnity costs against them because they “behaved egregiously” in choosing to use the defence of truth at the trial last October.

Mr Purkiss did not attend it, but Mr Parker admitted under cross-examination by Michael Reed, QC, that he could not prove his claims.

The legal bill could be $500,000 according to Mr Karam, bringing to around $1 million the cost to the defendants. That would make it one of the largest defamation damages and cost awards in New Zealand history.

Mr Karam said if the pair did not pay him, he would take bankruptcy proceedings against them.

Justice Courtney’s judgment noted evidence of Mr Karam’s “integrity, generosity and altruism”.

Mr Karam said the men had made “an all-out assault on me [in] an attempt to show that I’m shonky”.

He and Fairfax NZ had earlier agreed to settle defamation claims, on a confidential basis, arising from articles on stuff.co.nz that drew attention to the websites that contained the defamatory comments by Mr Parker and Mr Purkiss.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11239379

Could this have implications for blogs that link to or allow defamatory comments?
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April 17, 2014 5:53am
Nookin

Good question, Pete, but I fear that GD today will bring out the rabid supporters and detractors on both sides. Thankfully I have a very busy day today and do not intend any distractions. If anything, the case clearly shows the dangers of addressing the man and not the ball. There will be some, any they will appear today, who will not heed that warning.
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April 17, 2014 6:38am
Judith

Yes Nookin – rabid supporter of justice here – reporting for duty, although I have a busy day !!

Excellent decision. Freedom of speech has NEVER been about the right to denigrate another person, especially with outright lies.

Kent Parker and his ‘friends’, best described as ‘witch sniffers’, let their emotions take control. Whilst the court battle focused on some early examples there were plenty of later examples which, in my opinion should have also been included, and would have resulted in a figure much higher.

The decision, which I have a copy of, shows very clearly the difference between opinion and defamation. Some of the claims were rejected by the court as mere opinion, others not.

It is a lesson for us all to learn. Blogs are easy to get carried away on, but they are not, and should not ever be allowed to be a place to spread malicious gossip with the intent of destroying an innocent person’s life – just because you can.
If people will not let their sense of respectability and honesty guide them, then the courts have no option but to do it for them.
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April 17, 2014 6:58am
Viking2

More Importantly.

Kim Dotcom gets NZ assets back
6:53 PM Wednesday Apr 16, 2014

Anna Leask

Kim Dotcom gets NZ assets back
6:53 PM Wednesday Apr 16, 2014

Cars, cash and property seized from Kim Dotcom by police in the 2012 raid at his Coatesville mansion could be returned to him within the next 14 days.

When police raided the Dotcom Mansion in January 2012 they seized $6 million of luxury cars – including 15 Mercedes-Benz, a pink 1959 Cadillac and a Rolls-Royce Phantom – and $10 million from financial institutions.

They also took a number of personal items belonging to Dotcom and his wife Mona.

The property was seized under a foreign restraining order made by the United States District Court two days before the raid.

However today an order was made in the High Court at Auckland declining a police request to effectively extend the order so Dotcom’s assets could be retained.

===================================
Now this is going to cause KS and others to go apeshit and all.

too bad, the ruling is absolutely correct.

Confiscation of assets by force without trial is bloody outrageous, especially when no crime has been committed in NZ.

When is the taxpayer going to stop having to waste money on this charade by the the police and its lawyers. Clearly the Police budget is either too high or we are paying too many speeding fines unnecessarily.

Cry your hearts out.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11239397
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April 17, 2014 7:01am
flipper

Judith…
Where is the judgment available on line?
It is not on the MoCourts “Judicial decisions of Public interest” site yet. 🙂
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April 17, 2014 7:31am
Judith

@ Flipper

Check your email – you should have a copy sent to you earlier this morning.
Not sure it is available on line yet, I can up load it to a doc storage site if you haven’t got the email yet.
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April 17, 2014 7:49am
flipper

Judith…
Many thanks… got it. :-)\
F
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April 17, 2014 8:00am
Colville

V2 @ 7.01.
The police will appeal and tie the stuff back up.
Good job too.
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April 17, 2014 8:02am
Nostalgia-NZ

PG of course it has implications for blogs. Some of the 3rd party posts were on Trade Me, third party posts are the responsibility of the host whether they be defamatory, threatening, harassment or breach privacy. The judgement clearly sets out the template, moreover those whose third party posts were deemed to defamatory by the Judge may in turn be sued as the ruling has already been made as to the posts being defamatory. One of the hate-siters who has posted here made a post which is defamatory, he/she is an administration role, claims to have a lot of coin, so should be taking valium this morning. On the issue of medication it has been revealed that Parker is indeed an ex psychiatric patient, receiving treatment for 2 years that he was so able to convince others that he was ‘right’ speaks volumes about the ‘followers.’
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April 17, 2014 8:06am
flipper

Nos-NZ….

After reading Courtney J I concluded it was fair and balanced in almost every resect. I say “almost”, because once or twice, I thought Courtney leaned too much toward Parker. But in the end the summation restores the balance to where it should, and will forever, reside – with Karam. As for Parker’s claim that he will appeal… Good luck! He will need it since Courtney seems bullet proof.

J Collins MoJ advisor could do worse than to give Collins a copy for Easter reading.

And in respect of the judgment, several of those regular commenters on KB, DPF included, would learn much from reading all 69 pages.
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April 17, 2014 9:15am
UglyTruth

Ugly Truth, is there any evidence that anyone apart from the USA had mini nukes for the purpose of demolition?

This is a picture from Dimona (Mordechai Vanunu), apparently the lathe was used to turn plutonium into small spheres.

http://www.actsinjunction.info/img/pic8.jpg

Or that any mini nukes had been lost by those who had them?

The are reports of nuclear weapons being lost since the cold war.
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April 17, 2014 9:24am
Nostalgia-NZ

I agree flipper, and as you say the Judge balanced it out. This is the reason for the long delay – a substantial and definitive judgement that will be difficult to overturn in any aspect. What struck me was the recognition of the ‘environment’ in other words while posts could be looked at in isolation so too could the general thrust which in this case was always against JK. Perhaps the ‘opinion’ defence is too broad, if someone forms an opinion it should be based on facts, not merely because it is a topic of conversation or repeated by others and said to have some significance to the subject being discussed – the link to the subject should be seen to be durable but I ‘ain’t’ complaining.

Yes, the Judgement should be read because previous defences of inability to ‘edit’ and so on, or the relatively small size of a blog for example are clearly not valid. Parker claims a small readership, but that readership ‘spread the word’ onto other message boards and blogs, for that, he and the spreaders bear responsibility as well as the new ‘host’ – an obvious situation but reconstructed by half wits and something else. Fairfax, Trademe and others all ran foul on that. It’s really viral contamination and there were Judgements about this made nearly a decade ago overseas.
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April 17, 2014 9:42am
Pete George

Easter poll surprise

National 48.5% (+5.5%)
Labour 28.5% (-3.5%)
Greens 11.5% (-1.5%)
NZFirst 5.5% (no change)
Conservatives 2% (-0.5)
Maori Party 1% (-0.5)
Mana 1% (+.5)
Internet Party 1% (+0.5)
Act 0.5% (no change)
UF 0% (-0.5)
Other 0.5%

Roy Morgan poll
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April 17, 2014 1:59pm

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